Latest / Healthy Happy Wise Wealthy / Marketing a Global B2B Business: Insights from Toby Blatchford-Tagg

Transcript

Marketing a Global B2B Business: Insights from Toby Blatchford-Tagg · Healthy Happy Wise Wealthy

• Mary Meyer [0:00]: Hi, everybody. Welcome back to Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy. I have with us today Toby Blatchford-Tagg, of The Lead Lab. Mary Meyer [0:08]: So Toby is out of the UK, and he's doing international business, which I love. And I'm doing some international business too, Toby, 'cause I work with a company called Mindiii, which is out of India, and they make all kinds of, great websites or do whatever cloud services, IT services, and they even build some hardware. Mary Meyer [0:30]: So if companies- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [0:32]: Nice Mary Meyer [0:32]: ... need that to launch, they can do that. So international business seems to be a thing, for sure. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [0:39]: Yeah. And, and you- Mary Meyer [0:40]: We need each other Toby Blatchford-Tagg [0:41]: ... need the tech to support that, so they sound like a good fit. Mary Meyer [0:44]: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The whole thing. So The Lead Lab has been going on for 16, 17 years you said? Mary Meyer [0:53]: Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [0:53]: Yeah, correct. Yeah. And, um, we, we used to be... Six, seven years ago, used to be a telemarketing company, cold call B2B. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [1:00]: Um, but we found an opportunity where we were doing manual outreach on LinkedIn, um, via our team, our international team at the time. And, um, we just realized that we weren't doing telemarketing ourself. Um, so, you know, we were getting it at cost. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [1:17]: Um, so the ability to, uh, lead generate leads at a much lower cost via LinkedIn just became our whole business really. And over time, we've really flipped from, like, 90% cold calling six, seven years ago to, to 90% LinkedIn automation at scale. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [1:32]: Uh, and we still do a little bit of telemarketing, but it's more like a hot lead follow-up rather than cold calling, as that's just a bit of- Mary Meyer [1:38]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [1:38]: ... a dying art these days. Um, but yeah, we help clients with, uh, one-man bands with one or two profiles looking to do outreach at scale all done for them. Um, and we have clients that turn over over 150 million, and they've got 100 of their sales reps on the system. So it works at both ends of the s- of the spectrum really. Mary Meyer [1:56]: Oh, that's amazing. You know- Mary Meyer [1:58]: Yeah Mary Meyer [1:58]: ... and I, I, you know, you kind of know that LinkedIn is a good place to go to- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [2:03]: Yeah Mary Meyer [2:03]: ... to find clients if you're working with that B2B or business to business, in case someone doesn't know what B2B is. Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [2:09]: Yeah, yeah. Sorry. Mary Meyer [2:10]: But, uh, I think... Well, you know. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [2:13]: Let me know. Mary Meyer [2:14]: I, I do... Well, I, in this podcast, I actually cover things that are, like, around health and wellness, so that might be just- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [2:19]: Oh, okay Mary Meyer [2:19]: ... cover things that, that people need and then a lot of, like, I'd love to see more people, especially as the world is, go ahead and start a business, so- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [2:29]: Yeah Mary Meyer [2:29]: ... if they have any inclination to do so. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [2:31]: Yeah. Well, again, from a mental health point of view, um, doing telemarketing can be very stressful. So, uh, LinkedIn automation is all done for you. You don't have to think about it. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [2:41]: So if you ever are starting a business, it can be helpful to have that lead flow without another stress on top of you, which is obviously not ideal for anyone's health, to be honest with you. Stress is tough enough as it is, right? Mary Meyer [2:51]: Yeah. Well, and, and picking up the phone sometimes to just, you know, try to just call leads can be challenging, for sure. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [2:57]: It's very challenging. Mary Meyer [2:57]: I think everyone has... Yeah. I work with all kinds of people that are... I might... The... I had mentioned that when I first... I moved to Reno a couple years ago- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [3:06]: Nice Mary Meyer [3:06]: ... so for family, and so yeah, we're... I'm even farther away from the UK with the timeline. Uh, but, uh, with time zone. Um, but I did marketing. And so when I did that and I started meeting all kinds of business owners, and I was... I realized that marketing means so many different things. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [3:26]: Sure, it does. Mary Meyer [3:26]: So it's, it is such a, it's such a... I think when you're starting out, this is the first time I've had anyone on who did, and this is kind of like, it's, it's marketing, but it's, it's also... Mary Meyer [3:37]: It bridges that gap to, to kind of like direct sales almost, don't you think? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [3:41]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [3:41]: What, what you guys do. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [3:42]: Lead generation between... Yeah. Mary Meyer [3:43]: Lead generation. Yeah. Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [3:45]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [3:46]: So- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [3:46]: Just like you say, it can be so different to marketing, um, because, you know, content, branding, all that sort of thing is, it's all this, it's all marketing, right? But, like, lead generation marketing is, is very different to those other things. Um- Mary Meyer [3:59]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [4:00]: ... so yeah. Mary Meyer [4:00]: Well, and ex- explain, explain why you think it's very different. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [4:04]: Well, yeah, I mean, people pay us for, for, for outreach, right? So they pay us to take multiple profiles, manage the data, and get people to say, "This is interesting. Tell me more," or, "How much is it?" When people do, uh, brand marketing, they're, they're, they're positioning a company for how it's perceived and how people look at it when they see the brand, as opposed to an instant gratification of a, of a, of a positive response, which is obviously the difference of what we do. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [4:30]: Um, we wouldn't- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [4:31]: ... be content creators, whether it be branding or, um, you know, posting or anything like that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [4:36]: We do obviously have a lot of experience in writing the messaging journeys to get people to respond, and that is a, a fine art form. Don't get me wrong. Um, but it's very- Mary Meyer [4:43]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [4:43]: ... niche and unique to get people to respond. And, and we've worked across so many different sectors. We've had, um, everything from CRM systems that cost £100,000 to, um, you know, life insurance policies for business owners, whiskey investment, CRM systems, logistics, security, anyone whose target market's on LinkedIn, which is a lot of people, right? Mary Meyer [5:04]: Yeah, which is a lot of people. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [5:06]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [5:06]: Yeah, so- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [5:07]: Like everyone. Mary Meyer [5:08]: Yeah, so the B2B clients. So the, uh, B2C, so if you're selling like a product- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [5:14]: Consumer Mary Meyer [5:14]: ... a product online, um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [5:16]: Yeah Mary Meyer [5:16]: ... LinkedIn marketing isn't necessarily what you wanna do. But when, when you're doing is, like... Okay, so the example you gave, I actually... It's like a great option. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [5:26]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [5:26]: You know? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [5:26]: Well, in the UK they have a thing called relevant life cover, which basically means you can have your life insurance through your business, which is obviously a, a, you know, a totally legal tax break. So it's a bit of a no-brainer. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [5:36]: Although it's a consumer product, it's sort of through the business. Um, and we do sell- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [5:41]: Yep Toby Blatchford-Tagg [5:41]: ... some, like, high net worth consumer products via LinkedIn, but it's not, like, you know, your average product. It'll be, you know, um, high whiskey investment or, um, w- executive travel, that sort of thing. Mary Meyer [5:56]: Yeah. So have you found LinkedIn has continued to grow over the years with- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [6:02]: Yeah, it's crazy, like the amount of people, um, on LinkedIn every year grows quite dramatically. Now, I've got to caveat that with a couple of years ago, they brought in a thing called Persona. I think they had a really big problem with people creating fake accounts. I know that 'cause I saw that, and they were used for, for sales purposes and that sort of thing. But they brought in a thing called Persona a couple of years ago, which basically means if you do any connecting and messaging of any sort of volume, at some point they're gonna say, "Show me your ID so that I know you're a real person." Um, got rid of actually millions of accounts on there where people were just farming and doing lead generation from made-up accounts they just pulled out of thin air, but they got caught with AI photos and that sort of thing. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [6:43]: So, um, you know, again, there's new businesses born every day, and those business owners need to start somewhere and, and LinkedIn's a great starting point. Mary Meyer [6:51]: Yeah. So that's, that's really great. So when you guys made the transition from doing cold calling to LinkedIn, um, what is... Mary Meyer [7:02]: You know, what, what is it that, that makes it work? Like, what is it with the messaging that helps- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [7:08]: You know what it is, I think- Mary Meyer [7:09]: ... that gets people to book? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [7:10]: So, so the messag- messaging-wise, it's really about being, um, concise, uh, and quick. Like, if someone's going through their, uh, their LinkedIn inbox, realistically they might have three or four messages in there. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [7:20]: You have got two or three seconds to get their attention in that message, and if you don't, um, we're all selfish human beings, and we'll read those messages- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [7:29]: ... to see if there's something for us in those messages. That's how- Mary Meyer [7:32]: True Toby Blatchford-Tagg [7:32]: ... the psychology works. Uh, it's just natural, right? And in, in that first message or first line or two, you get their attention. They will read the rest. And how you get their attention is explaining very quickly the benefit you can give them. Um, the common mistake people make is they'll s- they'll list their, what they've done and, you know, "Oh, I've worked with this company, this company." No one cares. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [7:53]: They care how it's gonna benefit them. So you communicate that very quickly, whether it's a CRM system or a lead generation company or whatever it may be. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [8:01]: Communicating the benefit to them really quickly, uh, is, is really important to get them to read the rest of the message and then respond or not if they're interested. Um, we do webinars every two or three weeks just trying to give free advice to either small business owners or marketing directors, MDs, whatever. Um, and that's one of the big bits we give them is that, you know, getting the first line or two is really important. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [8:23]: Same as social media posting, that sort of thing. They call it like a hook. Mary Meyer [8:26]: Mm-hmm. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [8:27]: It's a similar principle. It also has to look like a message that was written for that person. As soon as it looks like a pre-written message, you know, you're not gonna get response. So there's an art form in that as well. Um, number of things really you can do, um, but that, that's the core thing. Um, we often recommend clients to use like AI to get started. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [8:48]: You know, someone might be thinking, "Oh, I want to do a two or three message campaign on LinkedIn myself," maybe even manually send them. But they're like, "I don't know what to say. I understand my business." But you can use AI tools just to give you a starting point. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [8:59]: You know, you can- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [8:59]: Totally Toby Blatchford-Tagg [8:59]: ... upload your website, you can upload your sales deck and say, "Look, give me a three-step message journey that I want to target some people," and it will write it for you. Now what you'll find is that won't look perfect because it's gonna look like AI wrote it, but I think a lot of people when they're starting out, it's a bit of a mental block. Maybe they're not in marketing- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [9:18]: Right Toby Blatchford-Tagg [9:18]: ... they don't have a marketing background. Mary Meyer [9:20]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [9:20]: So they don't really know where to start. So it's a really good... You know, there's things like DeepSeek or, you know, you can use Grok or ChatGPT, any of those things just to give you that starting point, and I think that's a really powerful thing in AI to help people break the ice when they don't really know how to. Mary Meyer [9:34]: Yeah. Well, I, I, from h- working with business owners and, and, you know, even people that are 1099, um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [9:42]: Yeah Mary Meyer [9:42]: ... it does seem like marketing is a, uh, a big wide pool of they feel like, uh, yuck. Like they just don't- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [9:52]: Yeah, yeah. Mary Meyer [9:52]: They just don't know what to do with it. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [9:55]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [9:55]: And, uh, a lot of people feel very... They brag about not using growing without marketing, and I, and I don't, I don't agree with that method. I think- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [10:05]: Mm Mary Meyer [10:05]: ... there's a certain point that if you're gonna grow, you're gonna have to do some marketing. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [10:09]: 100%. All big- Mary Meyer [10:10]: You know? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [10:11]: ... all good businesses are built on, on multiple marketing pillars. You know, if you're gonna- Mary Meyer [10:14]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [10:14]: ... achieve anything of any sta- of any stature, and, you know, if you're looking to be a small business and a lifestyle biz, that's fine as well. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [10:20]: But if you are looking to go to the next level, any big business or good business is built on mul- multiple pillars because marketing changes. You know, we built our- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [10:28]: ... our, our business originally off the back of email marketing back in the day when we were sell- doing telemarketing, and two years ago, that sort of fell off the edge of a cliff. Um, and if we'd only had that and not had these other channels to g- go, grow into, then your business changes dramatically overnight, and that's not a position anyone wants to be in, is it? Mary Meyer [10:45]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [10:46]: Mm. Mary Meyer [10:46]: So what, what happened with email marketing? I haven't ever heard- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [10:51]: Yeah, well- Mary Meyer [10:51]: ... that that fell off Toby Blatchford-Tagg [10:51]: ... so, so yeah, so outreach, email outreach at scale changed quite dramatically, uh, just about, yeah, probably about two years ago now. Um, where for whatever reason, I don't know the technical exact backgrounds, but we used to sell it as part of our packages, so they would get LinkedIn outreach and email outreach, et cetera. And then within a couple of months, it went from being like 20% to 30% of their lead flow would come from email to more like 5%. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [11:17]: And that wasn't just a, you know, it wasn't just an us thing. That's an industry thing. Um, and so from our point of view, we just took it out of what we do, where we just gave them more value on LinkedIn, i.e., more profiles or whatever. And, um, you know, end of the day, it's about CPA for our clients, and we make our money on long-term relationships 'cause clients can work for us, with us for £450, $600 a month. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [11:39]: So at those price points, we need to make long-term relationships. So it's just about getting that best bang for buck for our clients, and email just wasn't giving it to them anymore. Mary Meyer [11:48]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [11:49]: You know? Mary Meyer [11:49]: $600 a month is a deal. That's just a deal. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [11:53]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [11:53]: It is. It really is, yeah. Mary Meyer [11:55]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [11:55]: And that's for- Mary Meyer [11:55]: For knowing marketing Toby Blatchford-Tagg [11:56]: ... that's just three profiles, uh, to do LinkedIn outreach. And the thing for us is, the reason it scales is one profile can only connect and message so many people, so multiple profiles is, is how you do that. And as I said, our core clients have like three, five or 10 profiles with us.But we do have some big clients that have got, you know, hundreds of, of people and they work all... The whole world are targeting people and they've got mass market. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [12:18]: So, you know, there's sort of no limit to how much outreach they can do. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [12:23]: Um, but again, that is a very small percentage of our business. Um, but it's great to see it go to that scale because it just shows you the power, even for ourselves internally. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [12:31]: Like we've got clients in the US, UAE, Canada, uh, all over the world basically. Even in, in Europe in the last year we've started doing more in the Netherlands, uh, and Belgium. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [12:40]: So, you know, it's, it's great to know that you can do that. I think when you speak to new business owners and they're like... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [12:45]: And we only started doing internationally like two or three years ago. So it's just a, it's a tick box on LinkedIn and, you know, it works the same if not better in some countries. Like the US really, really engage with, with what we do. Mary Meyer [12:58]: That's really... I can see that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [12:59]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [13:00]: Absolutely see that being a thing in the United States, for sure. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [13:03]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [13:04]: Um, w- what is it like to run an international, to be international? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [13:07]: I don't know. Mary Meyer [13:07]: Are you, are you up 24/7? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [13:09]: It sounds cooler, it sounds cooler than it is. Yeah, I mean, I definitely have Teams calls, um, at, at random times. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [13:15]: Um, but yeah, no, to be honest, I love it. Uh, I love it and I, I, we chatted off, off, off pod, but it's changed a lot. Like I always think about pre-COVID. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [13:23]: I used to travel around and see clients all the time. So it's like, okay, so you might have to do a call at 11:00 PM sometimes- Mary Meyer [13:31]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [13:31]: ... but at the same time, pre-COVID you were, you know, you were traveling away for two days or whatever and, um, don't get me wrong, I'm going to South Africa next week, um, for a week for work, so that's great. But um, at the same time- Mary Meyer [13:43]: That sounds kind of fun Toby Blatchford-Tagg [13:44]: ... got young kids, it's good to be, to be home as well. Mary Meyer [13:47]: Oh, yeah. Of course. Yeah, I have, I have found that I am, uh, you know... And, and for podcast guests, you know, I have one coming on, uh, soon from Japan and I've had a couple from the UK. Mary Meyer [14:01]: So, and then working with a company in India. So I have the 6:00 AM- Mary Meyer [14:08]: ... like I'm doing and the 11:00 PM, so I get it. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [14:10]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [14:10]: For sure that's, uh, it's just more of a... It's just a thing- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [14:14]: Yeah, totally. Yeah Mary Meyer [14:14]: ... international business. Yeah. But it's- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [14:17]: I, I was gonna mention to you like the stress of, of running a business. I know obviously it's about being well for your podcast, but also about being healthy. This isn't a sponsored ad. I've got no affiliation to them whatsoever. But I, um, would struggle with stress probably a couple of years ago just from doing the business that we do. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [14:32]: A lot of things going on, like you say, offices internationally, clients international, et cetera. Uh, and I use a, a product called Heights, just really good for your, for your mental health. Um, if you look them up, it's basically a founder started them probably five, six years ago, but he had similar things where, you know, he didn't sleep well or he would have increased anxiety, that sort of thing. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [14:54]: Um, and he went to see a specialist and they basically said that his diet was affecting his mental health. Um, you know- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [15:01]: ... wasn't getting certain foods that were for the brain, if you like. Um- Mary Meyer [15:05]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [15:05]: ... so yeah, I'm a huge advocate of that. If there's any business people out there or real people that aren't business people and just generally stressed out, it's a, it's a great, uh, great tool for me. Changed my life. Mary Meyer [15:16]: So Heights, H-E-I-G-H-T-S? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [15:19]: Yeah, Heights. Yeah. Mary Meyer [15:21]: Okay. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [15:21]: Like a skyscraper. Yeah. Um, but yeah- Mary Meyer [15:23]: Okay Toby Blatchford-Tagg [15:23]: ... I, I'm a big fan. Check 'em out on the website. They've got other products, but they're- Mary Meyer [15:27]: Have, we'll have him come on the show. We'll give him, send him an invite. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [15:30]: Oh. Yeah, they'd be great. Would be a great guest. Yeah. They'd be a great guest. Mary Meyer [15:34]: Oh, that's, that's awesome. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [15:36]: Sorry, I've got grass behind my foot. I'm- Mary Meyer [15:38]: Oh, no. Yeah, so... Well, and it is, you know, running a business I think can be a, uh, for sure a, a, a tough thing. Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [15:47]: Mm. Definitely. Mary Meyer [15:48]: Do you think it's easy... It's, it's better now for people doing advertising versus, uh, marketing? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [15:55]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [15:55]: Uh, getting leads easier? Is it cheaper? Is it harder? What do you think from your experience over 17 years? Things have changed a lot. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [16:02]: Yeah. I mean, look, don't get me wrong, you know, I talk about marketing pillars in our business now. Like we're very good at LinkedIn outreach and we have the ability to scale it quite dramatically. So 90% of our, our leads come from that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [16:13]: Maybe, maybe slightly less, 80%. We do a lot of webinars and we get Google leads and referrals, et cetera. But the majority of our leads come from LinkedIn outreach 'cause we- we're good at it. Um, yeah, I think it's a great time, uh, to be doing social ads in particular. Um, I was just saying that, you know, 80% of our clients or our, our lead flow I should say, comes from LinkedIn automation 'cause that's what we're good at. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [16:34]: Um, but we obviously are exceptionally good at that because we do that for a business, so it makes sense for us 'cause our CPA is so good. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [16:42]: Um, but for other clients that are looking to have multiple channels, like we're big believers in Facebook ads, Instagram ads, that sort of thing, um, 'cause you can get really good results there. I think the difference here between what we do and, and that sort of thing is that the quality of what we get is, is great because before you start doing anything on LinkedIn outreach, you can literally have a list of the individuals, and on that list you can see their turnover, you can see their job title, you can see their sector. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [17:06]: So you know if any of those people resp- respond positively, you know they're worth your time. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [17:12]: Um, and I think on ads the biggest challenge you have is getting people... Qualifying people out because they're not the right person or they don't, you know, have the right revenue or whatever it may be. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [17:23]: ... so although it's a great time for it, I think it's better probably for consumer than it is for business, uh, to be running ads. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [17:30]: I know LinkedIn ads are nowhere, nowhere close to, um, outreach at scale cost CPA. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [17:36]: We don't run any ads on LinkedIn. It's like £50 to £100 just to get a lead, um, which is, you know, crazy when clients can work with us for £400 and get, you know, a couple, two to five leads a day sometimes across three profiles, so. Um- Mary Meyer [17:51]: Wow. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [17:51]: Yeah. Each their own obviously. Mary Meyer [17:54]: That's really good. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [17:54]: But um... And, you know, every business is different, right? You know, there's some businesses that ads are better for, but the CPA, you know, LinkedIn don't love what we do. That's the short answer really. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [18:04]: They want you spending money on InMails and ads, but to scale InMails is outrageously expensive. It's almost like £1 an InMail, which is, you know, you get, you get a certain amountFree with, you know, a, a sales navigator. But after that, if you wanna do any more, then it's like literally a pound a go, which is just, it's crazy, to be honest with you. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [18:23]: Um, and then ads is, is probably even a higher cost. So again, each their own, but in our experience across all of our clients, if we, if we would get better results in those two channels inside LinkedIn, we would be selling those 'cause again, we make our money on long-term relationships. Mary Meyer [18:38]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [18:39]: And, and marketing it, it does seem like with the different avenues, it's just like it, it is an ever-evolving. Have you noticed stuff with Google in the last year? 'Cause you do some Google also, right? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [18:50]: Yeah, we do some Google. Um, we have a sister business, um, that, that really specializes in, in ads, spend ads. Um, and even with his expertise, uh, there's a lot going on with like bank- backlinks I should say, sorry. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [19:07]: Um, and there's a lot of AI SEO stuff going on that's affecting Google quite dramatically, and it's hit or miss. You know, we've seen and I've heard of, you know, people that we work with that get great results from that. Um, I mean, backlinks are a win if the backlinks are good. That's definitely a, a win for a lot of clients for SEO. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [19:25]: Um, it's just getting the right provider of those backlinks and/or creating them yourself appropriately, which is a bit of a maze and it's, you know, not our niche, so I don't know the detail of it at that extent, but I know it's a huge thing over the last couple of years that have changed it quite a lot, and obviously the AI side of content writing as well. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [19:44]: Which again, can be hit and miss if you don't do it inc- doing it, do it correctly. Mary Meyer [19:48]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [19:48]: Um, so it, it's a minefield to be honest with you, and it's one I don't deal with full time, which I'm glad of to be honest, because I think getting it right is huge results, but it's very high risk 'cause you can get it wrong, it can affect your website massively. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [20:01]: Bad backlinks, that sort of thing. Mary Meyer [20:04]: Y- you know, I have... I know, just in case people don't know, like a backlink would be, um, where you would put, like for example, with my podcast, I'm about... Th- this website is just inches away from being launched. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [20:18]: No, not- Mary Meyer [20:18]: Uh, but you would put the, a link to YouTube, so that would be a backlink as an example. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [20:24]: Ah, okay. Mary Meyer [20:24]: So you put something on your website that would be linked, you know, to another website. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [20:29]: And what that does is give your website credibility- Mary Meyer [20:31]: Yes Toby Blatchford-Tagg [20:31]: ... which is what Google wants. It'll give you a higher domain score, and then when they search for things that are relevant to you, then obviously you come up. And you normally have to have backlinks that are linked to similar, uh, products or services as you or in the same world, um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [20:44]: ... because that's how they're valued supposedly. Again, not an expert at all- Mary Meyer [20:48]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [20:48]: ... um, when it comes to it, but yeah, that's, uh, that's sort of how it works. Mary Meyer [20:51]: Well- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [20:52]: You know, kind of Mary Meyer [20:53]: ... I don't, I never thought I was an expert at it, but when I start talking about it with people, they glaze over. So I'm like- ... maybe- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [20:59]: Maybe you are an expert Mary Meyer [21:00]: ... I, I like maybe I am. I don't know. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [21:02]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [21:02]: But I hadn't- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [21:03]: Well, there's nothing, there's nothing you can't learn enough on the internet to become an expert, so- ... YouTube, et cetera, why not? Mary Meyer [21:08]: Well, and also out of my pocket 'cause I had an... You know, during COVID- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [21:12]: Yeah Mary Meyer [21:12]: ... the other things I was doing, um, I had launched a couple things in December of 2019, so it's like good luck. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [21:20]: Nice. Mary Meyer [21:20]: Uh, well, no. Good luck. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [21:22]: Yeah, yeah. Mary Meyer [21:22]: Uh, because the world shut down and they weren't, they weren't really able to go. So I'm like, "Uh." So I op- I opened up an online store through the help of someone who kinda knew a little bit more about that than I did, and then as soon as it launched, he left. So I'm like, I'm telling you what, it's just, you know, trial by fire sometimes, right? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [21:42]: Totally, yeah. Yeah, I mean, uh, how does that- Mary Meyer [21:44]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [21:44]: ... how do all the great people learn? They learn from making mistakes, unfortunately. Um, that's how we get the arrows in the backs and that's how we can tell other people what, what's, what's not, what's to do and what not to do. Mary Meyer [21:54]: Yeah, yeah. So I know with websites, I mean, I'm just gonna talk... I've never talked about it on here, so you, you tell me what you know about that too. But- Mary Meyer [22:01]: Yeah Mary Meyer [22:01]: ... so with, with a website, it's gotta look what Google ranks. And the, the... Here's what the problem I've heard with Google recently is the AI, in that you-- people used to go to Google, search down, find the, find a link, click on it, and then go there. But now they're seeing an AI overview, so they're getting the answer from that and not needing to click on a site, so it's harder for people to get the results. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [22:28]: Definitely, yeah. Mary Meyer [22:29]: So- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [22:29]: People are getting, uh, more information quicker, which means, like you say, they're ending up at less, uh, less websites. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [22:36]: Um, and not only that, I don't know if y- you get this, but we constantly get, um, like fake people come into your inquiries. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [22:43]: You know, it might be like, uh, another language or just people selling to you via u- via automation inside your website. Which is funny 'cause obviously we do that inside LinkedIn as far as the companies go. But I mean, we get s- people trying to sell us backpacks and, you know, you wouldn't believe it, the, the spam you get through your, through your website. Mary Meyer [23:01]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [23:01]: ... which I don't think's helped either. Um- Mary Meyer [23:03]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [23:04]: ... but yeah. To s- To answer what you were, uh, the original question is that I think that AI's not really helping it either because I know that people are using AI to create content quite a lot, and I think that Google can actually tell now, um, whether it's AI created or not from, from people that have told me that, that are much better versed on it than myself. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [23:25]: So that's a challenge, I think. Again, the same principle with us with we use AI, but we use it as like, um, speeding up of a process, never a full process. Like I mentioned about, you know, for other people that wanna write content, message journeys, like use it a little bit, but don't ever fully use it. I think it's, it can be quite, um, can have a negative impact on, on your website scores, particularly if you're using it for, for p- for blogs and stuff like that. Mary Meyer [23:51]: Yeah. A little bit off-putting. And it's, uh, the irony- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [23:54]: Yeah Mary Meyer [23:54]: ... that AI is, is scoring AI low. 'Cause AI- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [23:59]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [24:00]: ... Google has their, has their bots, their AI bots s- you know, looking through going- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [24:05]: Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? Mary Meyer [24:06]: ... "What's like us? Let's not do that." Toby Blatchford-Tagg [24:09]: Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's... Well, even go back to the, like the LinkedIn profiles where they used to have AI profiles, like millions of them. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [24:15]: Millions of them. One of the biggest problems, I know it's a sl- slight sidestep on the conversation, but biggest problems LinkedIn have at the minute... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [24:20]: is, uh, people attaching AI to their actual profiles. So people are going on LinkedIn thinking they're speaking to me or to you or whatever, and they're actually speaking to a bot, and that is a big problem for LinkedIn, because- Mary Meyer [24:32]: Oh, interesting Toby Blatchford-Tagg [24:33]: ... who's gonna go on a platform where people can just be going on there and having a, a bot of themselves have conversations with them? Like, no one wants to live in a world where that's the case. Um, so I know people in the space where LinkedIn can even tell when you're doing, um, like bot conversation via your profile. So there's obviously a big difference between an automated message which you've pre-agreed and you're sending out cold, and then people responded to. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [24:57]: But if after they respond, some AI gets involved and starts having a conversation, LinkedIn can actually tell, um, and, and they don't like it obviously, and they will, will ban accounts for that. Mary Meyer [25:07]: That's fascinating. I've not heard that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [25:10]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [25:10]: Uh, you know, and I've had AI conversations, I think, with several of my recent guests, and the- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [25:15]: I bet, yeah Mary Meyer [25:16]: ... the conversation does seem to be that people are gonna wanna have conversations with people. People wanna see people. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [25:22]: Yeah. Totally. Yeah. Mary Meyer [25:24]: You know? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [25:24]: A cra- a crazy client example I can give you recently, which you, you believe it or not, uh, is AI companions. Interestingly, from a health perspective, they were targeting, um, uh, directors of businesses basically on them being lonely and, uh, you know, whatever reason, having a, an AI companion sold via LinkedIn, believe it or not. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [25:45]: Um, and actually LinkedIn picked up on it, uh, and basically stopped it. So, um, it's crazy the companies out there these day- these- Mary Meyer [25:56]: Wow. That is, uh... Well, you hear of some stuff, but, uh, the... Where I- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:02]: I know Mary Meyer [26:02]: ... where I'm at, right? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:03]: You wouldn't believe it, would you? Yeah. Mary Meyer [26:05]: That's- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:05]: I know, yeah. Mary Meyer [26:06]: Well, and you know, man, we gotta be pretty lonely to, to want an AI friend, you know? So, and people are lonely, but I mean, come on. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:16]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [26:16]: I just don't know that that's- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:18]: I know Mary Meyer [26:18]: ... that's gonna be the, the thing that's gonna make you less lonely. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:23]: I know. Well, you know- Mary Meyer [26:24]: I just- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:24]: If anything, it'll make me feel more lonely if you end up talking- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:27]: Right Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:27]: ... to a robot, right? Mary Meyer [26:29]: Right? Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:29]: Yeah, totally. Yeah. Mary Meyer [26:30]: Listen, there's a, there's a billion people on the planet. There's gonna be someone for you to talk to, I promise. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:35]: So true, yeah. Mary Meyer [26:36]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [26:36]: Uh, each their own, I guess, as people of different backgrounds. Like we obviously, you know, with, with the marketing backgrounds, we're s- stereotypically outgoing people, so you know, maybe in, you know... It's alien to us to even believe that's a thing. But maybe in, in certain spaces, which I won't n- name just to, uh, sort of, you know, name a whole space or something, but there's certain spaces where people are maybe a bit more, uh, introverted, where they find it very difficult to have personal relationships. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [27:04]: ... who knows, right? I, I, I give up guessing. The, the world is a crazy place these days. Mary Meyer [27:09]: Well, it just, you know, the... In my opinion, technology and has, has made it possible for people to even, you know, for younger generations to grow up almost babysat by technology in, in some ways. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [27:22]: Oh, yeah. Shows the lack of it. Mary Meyer [27:23]: So, yeah. So it's, you know, it's... There's still people, I mean, just... I, and I, it does make me sad 'cause I'll meet people that, you know, I met someone the other day said, "I have no one. I have no one." And I'm like- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [27:35]: Yeah Mary Meyer [27:35]: ... there's so- but there's people out there that feel the same way as you. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [27:38]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [27:38]: And it is hard. I'm like, I'm not... I'm very compassionate. I know what loneliness feels like. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [27:43]: Yeah, yeah. Mary Meyer [27:43]: And you can feel lonely even around people, so. Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [27:46]: Yeah, totally Mary Meyer [27:46]: ... but I, I think people, people are a solution to that, not the... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [27:49]: Yeah. No, totally. I, I'm, I mean, I've... Talk about my daughter, she's five, and there's always this constant, like she wants an iPad and stuff like that, and I just, I don't ever wanna go there. I, I don't know what age I'll ever feel comfortable her having. I just, I see, I see... And I get it, you know, parenting's tough, especially if you've got multiple children. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [28:05]: To give the iPad makes more sense than anything to have a break or to achieve something that you need to do when you can't give. But I just worry about what it does to, to, to their, to their mental health and their, like you say, their ability to have relationships in the future. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [28:18]: ... yeah, so not for me just yet. I'm gonna hold off as long as I can. Mary Meyer [28:24]: Well, in the business, you know, at the Lead Lab, of course, and when you're doing marketing, it is that, it is really that intersection of using technology as much as you can- Mary Meyer [28:32]: ... uh, and being as human as you can, don't you think? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [28:35]: Totally, yeah. I mean, look, we, we even have a podcast studio that we run off the side of the Lead Lab in, in the UK, uh- Mary Meyer [28:41]: Okay Toby Blatchford-Tagg [28:41]: ... which I'm obviously in, in at the minute. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [28:43]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [28:43]: And we rent it out to people, and different business owners use it and stuff like that. And a lot of what they do it for is to create the short clips that you see on social media. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [28:51]: ... uh, which it just creates that, you know, so we're guilty of it. It's, um, creating that doomscrolling, um, thing where people just go from short clip to short clip to short clip, but it's just how people consume information nowadays. Mary Meyer [29:04]: It is Toby Blatchford-Tagg [29:04]: ... you know. Mary Meyer [29:05]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [29:05]: Our team might clip this podcast up and use clips on my LinkedIn or whatever, saying, you know- Mary Meyer [29:10]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [29:10]: ... it's a, and it, it's the way that has to be done, and then people will see that and think, "Oh, that's interesting. I'll go and watch the whole podcast." But it's just... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [29:18]: It is what it is, and I, I do... I'm, I'm very much a, a new parent to a certain extent. Within the last five years, I've got a 10-month-old and a, a five-year-old, and I just- Mary Meyer [29:28]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [29:28]: ... I think because I'm in digital marketing, if you like, or automation and AI and stuff like that, it just petrifies me, and I think, um, trying to make the right choices, uh, is really tough. Mary Meyer [29:41]: It is, it is a, um... It's an interesting world, isn't it? For sure. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [29:45]: Mm, totally. Mary Meyer [29:45]: In that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [29:45]: True. 100%. Mary Meyer [29:46]: So- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [29:47]: So much opportunity- Mary Meyer [29:47]: I mean, I- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [29:48]: ... as well. Like, on the positive side of that or the scary bit of it, the positive side is look, there is so much opportunity. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [29:54]: Like I say, you know, we can be contacting people all over the world, and we've got clients all over the world. So that's the other side of it, but it is swings- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [30:02]: ... and roundabouts, right? Mary Meyer [30:04]: Yeah. So tell me, like, it used to be that you guys were doing, and going, kinda going back to how things are changing and how- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [30:12]: Yeah Mary Meyer [30:13]: ... and also if you are a business owner and you've been doing this, you've been running your business for 40 years, 30 years, and this is the way things are done, and this is the way how things are always gonna be done. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [30:25]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [30:25]: Uh, first of all, what would you say to someone like that who's like, "Oh, this is how I've done it and this is how I'm gonna keep doing it 'cause I've done it like this forever"? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [30:32]: I, I'm sorry. I would just say, I would say, to be honest, they're doing spectacularly well to still be existing. Like, it is a little bit like you do need to-You know, you need to change to survive sometimes. And I think if people are doing really well and doing things the way they used to do 40 years ago, then one, fair play to them, they must be do- have a absolutely fantastic product and service. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [30:52]: But there is, there is better ways to do things now. And look, every business is different. I don't think you can just, you know, sugarcoat that over everything. Like, we even have some clients that have AI calling, um, but it's just being used at the right time, where a consumer just wants something and they want it now, and actually it's better for that consumer to be able to speak to an AI 8:00 PM rather than wait till 9:00 and, and so the client's getting a better experience, which they're happy with. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [31:18]: So, you know, it's just about... It's really hard to say what you'd say to them because, like you say, every business is so different. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [31:29]: Um- Mary Meyer [31:29]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [31:29]: ... I think being open-minded is super important, um, to s- to survive and to grow in business. And I think, you know, it's, it's, it's not really about, um, what's right or wrong, it's about what's right for you. And the only way you're gonna find that out is by doing s- as low-risk tests as you, as you can. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [31:47]: Uh, I saw a thing yesterday or day before about risk management as a business owner. Uh, you've got basically, uh, what's the worst that's gonna happen if you do something? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [31:56]: What's likely to happen? Uh, and what's the best thing that can happen? Uh, and if you're happy- Mary Meyer [32:00]: Okay Toby Blatchford-Tagg [32:00]: ... um, with the worst outcome, um, and you think what's likely to happen is good, then, you know, it's worth doing. Um, because you're only gonna get better and you're only gonna d- deploy and... 'Cause, you know, we, to go back six, seven years ago pre-COVID, we had 40 telemarketers in our company- Mary Meyer [32:16]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [32:16]: ... cold calling for a range of different clients. Everything from part-time CFOs to CRMs. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [32:22]: We even did a bit of consumer as well, like solar and stuff like that. Um, and to think that business now, they, they, they are... They don't exist in the same way as they did back then, just because the technology's changed so dramatically. So that company, if that MD back then speak to Toby seven, eight years ago, and he hadn't been open-mind to change, um, and, and followed, followed the best practices and what other people are doing, then, you know, uh, we wouldn't be here now. Mary Meyer [32:50]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [32:51]: And we definitely wouldn't be in int- you know, clients all over the world and, you know, traveling and doing all that. We just wouldn't exist anymore, unfortunately. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [32:58]: Um, so yeah, it's all about adapting. Um, yeah. Mary Meyer [33:03]: So what is... What have you found with the phone sales, uh, or the phone lead generation? What's, what's, what's making that less viable now? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [33:10]: Well, what they have now for, for like an iPhone, for example, they'll literally, you can screen any call that you haven't got saved in your phone. So it'll ba- basically come up and it will just say, um, "Someone's ringing." You have to leave a message basically that'll come up on their phone whether they answer or not. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [33:26]: So it's literally like they've got their own receptionist inside every iPhone now. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [33:31]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [33:31]: So you can imagine a cold caller- Mary Meyer [33:33]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [33:33]: ... used to make 200, 300 cold calls a day to a consumer on their mobile or a business owner on their mobile. Um, and people would see a number. As a business owner, you almost got to pick it up. Again, selfish instincts of it might be something for me, it might be a potential client, whatever. But now they can literally see, they literally got to say, "Oh, it's Toby from the Lead Lab," and that comes up in the writing. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [33:54]: So, you know, thank God it's not our core business anymore. But, um, it must be very challenging for people trying to still do that. Mary Meyer [34:03]: Yeah. Well, I've... Now that you say that, I've noticed that happening recently on my phone where, uh, it just, it might ring once and then it goes straight to voicemail and it is a, um, you know- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [34:14]: Yeah, I mean- Mary Meyer [34:14]: ... kind of- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [34:15]: I, I've, I've- Mary Meyer [34:15]: ... someone wanting to- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [34:16]: I've got a friend who had a B2C telemarketing company, uh, and he, his biggest client in his own company, uh, was selling to consumer. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [34:24]: Um, and within two months of that coming in, that, that wasn't his client anymore. So he's gone from, I don't know, having 30 staff to 15 staff overnight basically, just because of a change in technology, which is just crazy, right? But that is the world we live in now, and that's why you need to be trying new things all the time. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [34:39]: Um, you know, even how we started LinkedIn automation. We used to do it manually to start with. We had an international team that would sit there and manually do it, which obviously wasn't scalable, it wasn't something we could provide to our clients. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [34:51]: But COVID sort of gave us that break to build the software ourself and be able to scale- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [34:55]: ... it ourself and obviously give it to our clients. Um- Mary Meyer [34:57]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [34:58]: ... and, you know, that's again, all about changing and developing and, and following the energy really. Mary Meyer [35:04]: Yeah. Well, and I think you just have to do that if you wanna, you know- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [35:08]: Totally Mary Meyer [35:09]: ... if you want to, to scale. Who are... What's the best type of client to work with you? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [35:15]: Um, just anyone who's looking for people on LinkedIn really. One thing we say, like our k- key mantra as a business is to stop people being consumers on LinkedIn. You know, if you're on your news feed, if you're in your inbox, you're our perfect client. Because what we do is we just email you when someone's interested. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [35:33]: So you go on LinkedIn when you've got an interested party in one of your profile's inboxes. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [35:37]: Uh, you know, 'cause when you're doing it the other way, you are just a consumer on there. You're on there, you're looking through the, the newsfeed, you're looking through your inbox. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [35:44]: You are just being sold to on LinkedIn. We really- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [35:47]: ... flip that, where you just become the seller, if that makes sense. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [35:51]: Um, because that's how LinkedIn makes its money really, is by going on there and consuming, right? That's how the whole business model works. And I think if you're a one-man band and you spend two hours a day on LinkedIn but not really achieving anything, um, you know, you're a great client. Or if you've got 20 sales team and you walk through the office and you can see them all scrolling their LinkedIn newsfeed and you're like, "Well, I'm at work. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [36:13]: I'm on my new LinkedIn." It's like, I want my sales team selling, and I want them to get an email when someone's got a positive response for them to deal with on LinkedIn. Then I've got no- Mary Meyer [36:22]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [36:22]: ... problem with them going on LinkedIn. But otherwise, it's just dead time. Um, so that's what we facilitate. We facilitate it being consistent, and I always use the analogy of like, um, it's like when someone puts time each day into a bank, and if you don't spend that time, it's gone the next day. It's sort of the same principle with LinkedIn outreach. If you've got profiles or y- we can rent you profiles as well, those profiles can do outreach every day. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [36:46]: And if you don't do it-And who's gonna do it every day manually when you, when you've got other, a million other things to do, right? Run a business or be a salesperson or whatever. Mary Meyer [36:55]: Right. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [36:55]: Then that opportunity is gone. So what we facilitate is making sure that you don't... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [37:00]: You make most of that opportunity every single day, but also scale it as well, where you times that opportunity by, by three, by five profiles, by 10 profiles, whatever it may be, uh, and reach out to lots of people that might be interested in what you've got to offer. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [37:14]: Uh, you solve a problem or you make someone's life better, improve their business, whatever. Um, we make sure that's all done for you basically at scale. Mary Meyer [37:22]: So what do you, what does it mean making different profiles? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [37:26]: So- Mary Meyer [37:26]: What does that mean? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [37:26]: ... the core business, uh, and probably about 78% of our clients use their own employees. So it might be a director of a company or it might be a salesperson, marketing person. We take their profile, we connect it to our software, and it does outreach. But- Mary Meyer [37:39]: Okay Toby Blatchford-Tagg [37:39]: ... we do have a small, uh, percentage of our business where they'll rent profiles from us. So we have a community of people that don't work, but we pay to use their LinkedIn profile. So they're a real person backed by a passport, um, but they choose not to, to work or use LinkedIn or whatever it may be, and we rebrand those profiles for our clients or for ourselves to facilitate that scale. Mary Meyer [38:01]: Oh. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [38:01]: So they become the vehicle for more outreach. Um, and they're positioned as marketing or, you know, marketing or sales or whatever it may be, but a lower level position. And then they go and they get that message into the world around very directly and very quickly on how they can improve someone's business or their life. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [38:18]: Um, and that obviously gets positive responses. But the power in the profiles is the fact that one can only do so much. So when we can rent you, we've got clients that have 100 profiles they rent from us, and then they just get leads constantly in huge numbers. Um, and we're obviously one of their- Mary Meyer [38:35]: Wow. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [38:35]: We become the strongest pillar in their business, which is what we love and why our business has grown. Because we become a, a constant lead flow for clients. Whether you're a one-man band or a big business with a huge sales team, everyone needs leads, right? Everyone needs opportunity. Um- Mary Meyer [38:50]: Right Toby Blatchford-Tagg [38:51]: ... and they're busy dealing with what they're dealing with day to day. So just to get an email saying, "Oh, Mary's responded saying, 'I'm interested. How much is it?'" Or, "Why should I use you?" Toby Blatchford-Tagg [38:59]: You know, then it's worth their time to go on LinkedIn and they are, they are sellers at that point rather than just buyers, and that's really what, what we're all about. Mary Meyer [39:07]: Yeah. That's, that's great. And I think marketing in general is, is really like, is multiplying who you are. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [39:15]: Totally. Mary Meyer [39:15]: So you can only, you can only do so much- Mary Meyer [39:17]: Great analogy Mary Meyer [39:17]: ... in a day. And, you know, and I've heard, uh, so much from businesses and I worked with probably smaller, you know, local businesses that- Mary Meyer [39:26]: ... "Well, we just, we just gotta get the word out. How do we get the word out? People just don't know about us." Toby Blatchford-Tagg [39:30]: Yeah, yeah. So true. Yeah. Mary Meyer [39:30]: And if you're saying that, that's marketing. It's because you're not doing marketing. Mary Meyer [39:34]: So you either have to figure out a way yourself if you don't think you're gonna want it, you can't pay for it, then you're doing your own sales. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [39:43]: Totally. Mary Meyer [39:43]: You're, you're going out and networking, you're picking up the phone and calling. You're s- you're stopping by, you're dropping by, you're making connections. Mary Meyer [39:51]: And that's valid, uh, when you're starting out- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [39:54]: I, I've made the same mistake in my business Mary Meyer [39:55]: ... if you're that thing. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [39:55]: I've made the same mistake in my business. Like for the first year or two, obviously I get that you've probably gotta do it. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [40:00]: But you know, I think maybe I probably spent four or five years more in my business maybe than I should have selling myself, where I was in the demos, I was doing this. Like, and the business just sort of plateaus and you just become like a, a rabbit in the wheel, uh, that's just going round and getting... You know, it's not the... The only way to scale is to have, you know, m- like you say, multiply yourself is the key thing. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [40:24]: Whether it's different people doing the demos or more people doing the lead generation, but all those things. And, but also importantly, done at an affordable price point for you, you know? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [40:33]: Some of these companies come in and they just want ridiculous money from small businesses, and it's like how on earth are they gonna sustain that? And what they tend to do is just come in with a big hit, take a load of money off you, and then see you later two months later and, you know, no one's any the wiser. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [40:46]: Which is just, it's sad, unfortunately. I know as a small business owner myself, uh, that's grown over the years, you know, I've spent huge sums of money on like SEO and stuff like that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [40:56]: Um, and you just, just sat there after, like, "I can't believe I spent 12 grand on that. It was just the biggest waste of money ever." But you get sold a dream. Um, so just managing that risk. What's the worst that's gonna happen? What's the best- Mary Meyer [41:10]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [41:10]: ... that's gonna happen and what do I expect to happen? And if you're happy with all those outcomes, you know, from our point of view is providing something that is minimal risk to people, and obviously low monthlies sort of allow that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [41:20]: And when I speak to clients, it's like if you've ever done any outreach yourself manually, if you've connected and messaged a few people, whatever, over a period of time and you've had a glint, and I mean literally the tiniest glint of light from doing that, then what we do will work for you because we do it on steroids and we do it all day, every day, basically. Mary Meyer [41:36]: Yeah. What's interesting is like I've been a business owner who's paid for marketing and paid companies to do that- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [41:42]: Yeah Mary Meyer [41:42]: ... and then you have too. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [41:44]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [41:44]: So it's like we... And then I've also sold marketing, and this is of course you selling marketing, lead manage- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [41:49]: Yeah Mary Meyer [41:49]: ... lead, lead generation. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [41:51]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [41:51]: So we both understand. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [41:53]: Totally. Yeah, yeah. 100%. Mary Meyer [41:54]: Um, and that's, and that's probably why- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [41:57]: It helps, it helps sell it. It helps sell it or it helps package it, I should say, because I'm like, I've been there and I've, I've spent and I've lost and I've... I think a lot of the time is when people are selling you products or services you don't fully understand or not even fully understand, don't understand at all. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [42:09]: Like SEO is a great example of it. It's like you talk to an SEO guy for ages and it's like- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [42:14]: ... uh, "Okay, you're my master. What... Yeah, here's my money. Show me- ... show me what it is." Do you know what I mean? I think the beautiful thing about- Mary Meyer [42:20]: Right Toby Blatchford-Tagg [42:20]: ... what we do, it's i- in, in description it's much sim- simpler, i.e. we're gonna connect the message lots of people, like an old school email campaign, but inside LinkedIn. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [42:31]: And I think that's really helpful because you don't end up having to, you know, get bedazzling or bedazzling people with a load of fluff. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [42:39]: You know, it's quite simple in purpose. Uh, and if that's why that example of if you've connected and messaged anyone in small scale and had a glint of light, then working with us will be perfect for you because we're gonna scale it, we're gonna do it every day, and whether you're a one-man band or a big company, we're just gonna... You're gonna get leads coming in on a regular occurrence, which is-Like you say, all big businesses and all small businesses need Mary Meyer [42:59]: Yeah, no, that's very much what you need. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:02]: Yeah, totally. Mary Meyer [43:02]: You need that lifeblood of, of- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:04]: Lifeblood, yeah Mary Meyer [43:05]: ... new business coming in and Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:06]: Cash is king, as they say. Yeah. Mary Meyer [43:08]: Yeah. And it really is. It's like the... If you don't have that- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:11]: Oh, true Mary Meyer [43:11]: ... that new, the new funnel coming in every day, it's gonna... It's tough. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:15]: This, uh- Mary Meyer [43:15]: It is just tough Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:16]: ... Grant Cardone or, or whatever the big influencers are, they always say, "Sales solve everything." Mary Meyer [43:22]: Sales solves everything? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:24]: And you can't get sales without leads. Yeah. And you can't- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:26]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:26]: ... get sales without leads, unfortunately. Mary Meyer [43:26]: Yeah. Yeah, usually just some money coming in is what you need. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:31]: Totally, yeah. Mary Meyer [43:31]: And then all, all of your woes go away. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:33]: All problems solved. So true. So true. Yeah. Mary Meyer [43:36]: Yeah. So you said that you have some things that you do so people can just come and listen, some- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:44]: Yeah. So we have webinars every three weeks- Mary Meyer [43:46]: Okay. Okay Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:46]: ... on LinkedIn. Uh, sort of like this. I've got my business partner, uh, and one of our, um, our sales team come on it. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [43:53]: Uh, we go through, like, lots of advice for people to do it themself. Like, we're big believers that from a brand perspective that if we give lots for free and give lots of experience, two things happen. One, people benefit from that, and they go and recommend us, and they go and do it themself, or they recommend to another company. Or two- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [44:10]: Mm-hmm Toby Blatchford-Tagg [44:10]: ... they realize that actually to do this yourself at scale is an absolute pain in the butt. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [44:15]: Um, and actually we might be able to help them. So i- it's, um, really about coming on. We talk about, like, AI tools they can use, softwares they can use, um, guidance on messaging journeys, data, like the com- The... There's a lot of things where people go and do outreach themselves that they make mistakes on, and the webinar- Mary Meyer [44:32]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [44:32]: ... is just really all about that. It's all about to avoid those things. And again, we have people come on there that are marketing directors of big businesses, and we have one-man bands come on there. It's just really about expand- expanding their knowledge pool, but particularly about LinkedIn automation and outreach at scale. Um, and we share as much as we can, because from our point of view, it sort of shows how much value we give. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [44:54]: Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [44:55]: ... use us, but at the same time, if you're gonna go and do it yourself, no problem. It is... You might be missing one part of the puzzle, and then we can give you that. It'd pretty much be in that webinar. Mary Meyer [45:05]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [45:05]: And you can ask questions in it. Also, off the back of the webinar, you can have a free LinkedIn health check, which we don't charge for. It's a one-to-one. You can book it off the back of that webinar, um, and ask any questions. Like you say, we believe that you'll go off and be an advocate for us, even if you're not a client, because we've just given you a load of information and help without the ask of anything in return. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [45:24]: Um, just something we believe in, and we've seen, seen success to... Again, being selfish, we've seen success from it. I've seen clients- Mary Meyer [45:32]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [45:32]: ... go away and then email their friend and say, "Oh, Toby really helped me. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [45:36]: Actually, it's not for us, but I think this would be perfect for you." Um- Mary Meyer [45:40]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [45:40]: ... so we really go into that full passion on the webinar and in the one-to-ones. Because the more we help, the more thank we think that's gonna happen. And don't be wrong, we get lots of clients from our webinars directly. Mary Meyer [45:52]: I love that, that you guys do that where you are giving back. And you're just giving, you know- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [45:57]: Totally Mary Meyer [45:57]: ... and you're being generous with your knowledge. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [45:59]: Yeah, totally. Mary Meyer [46:00]: And- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:00]: Yeah. And, uh, and look, Mary, being honest, like, we're not doing it out of the kindness of heart. We genuinely believe in that model. You know, we believe- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:07]: ... that that comes back to you. So anyone who wants to take advantage of that and see behind the curtain, if you like, then f- feel free to... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:14]: You can go to the webinar and, and, and join the next one from our website, sorry. They're, they're always on there. There's always a link to our webinar, so- Mary Meyer [46:21]: Okay Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:21]: ... uh, people can, can go and do that. Uh, or I can, you know, I can send you a link. We can put it in the description of the video, whatever. Mary Meyer [46:26]: No, please do. Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:27]: Um, I'm relatively new to this, uh, podcast, uh, guest game, so, um- ... I'm not sure if that's what the done thing is or- Mary Meyer [46:35]: Oh, no. I- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:35]: It's the subscribe, yeah Mary Meyer [46:36]: ... in the, in the show notes. Yeah, for sure. In the show notes, I try to put as much as I can, so if people- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:42]: Great Mary Meyer [46:42]: ... are, you know, looking for more information, they can go to the show notes and, and find the information. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:46]: Yeah. I, I'm happy to put the link into our, to our one-to-one, um, LinkedIn health check, which is totally free. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:52]: Um, if they wanna go to the website and look, that's great, or we can put the Calendly link in there as well for them to go straight to- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:57]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [46:57]: ... a one-to-one. If they feel like they've heard me talk enough, um, and just wanna have a chat one-to-one about their own experience, we look at their, their, their size of market. We can show them examples of copy that worked well in their space. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [47:09]: Um, obviously look at their, um, their data pool as well. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [47:14]: Uh, also look at their profile universe or if they wanna rent profiles. Uh, just have conversations around that and answer any questions they have. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [47:20]: 'Cause lots of people are intrigued by it but don't necessarily know it really well or understand it. Mary Meyer [47:25]: Yeah. So tell me, you know, if... Just to speak to someone who is just starting a business or they haven't- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [47:32]: Yeah Mary Meyer [47:32]: ... um, you know, they haven't got to the point where they're really making a good ROI. Mary Meyer [47:36]: What, what advice would you give them? It's... Maybe it's hard for them to have the money for marketing, but, um, uh, since you give a lot of advice- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [47:44]: Yeah Mary Meyer [47:44]: ... what would you say to them? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [47:44]: Yeah, no, happy to. Um, I, I, to be honest with you, when I've started out myself in other businesses, I've, I've had other businesses as well as this one. I've had recruitment companies. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [47:53]: I mean, this has always been my core business, my, my biggest business. Um, but I've had recruitment companies. I've had barber shops, um, podcast studios obviously that I'm in now. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [48:02]: Um, and what I've always found is the reality when starting is a lot of the stuff you've just gotta do yourself. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [48:09]: Like, I remember, um, I remember starting, uh, on... Even on LinkedIn, you know, eight, nine years ago, where I would literally sit up at night, connect and message people manually. My day work would finish, and I would sit and do that for two or three hours. This was back when LinkedIn didn't even limit, limit, uh, limit you. You could literally... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [48:28]: If you wanted to connect and message people all day in the early days of LinkedIn, you could. Obviously, like, in the great scheme of things, that was never gonna last and, you know, they don't want their inboxes to become saturated 'cause, you know, that's a problem. Um, but, um, back then I used to do it myself, and you work more hours, et cetera. I think it's all about, again, comes back to risk management, right? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [48:48]: It's trying things as much as you can to mitigate that risk and, and trying things on a smaller scale, um, whether it's LinkedIn outreach, tele, whatever it is you're gonna do to do lead generationIt's about, uh, risk management and trying things yourself. And the truth of the matter is you have to give time Mary Meyer [49:10]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [49:11]: When you don't have money, you have to give time initially. Um- Mary Meyer [49:14]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [49:14]: ... and at the same time do research. I mean, nowadays with YouTube, if you suspect a channel that could be good for you, there's so much stuff you can watch and learn, uh, and educate yourself. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [49:24]: Um, but yeah, nothing better than, than trying things yourself on a small scale, and then from there scale wherever that may be. Mary Meyer [49:31]: Yeah. It's... Then I, I totally agree. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [49:35]: Another thing I recommend is, is good business part- is good business partners, especially if you're gonna have multiple businesses. Um, I definitely- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [49:42]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [49:42]: ... wouldn't be able to have all the business I've had without... I've had some great business partners over the years in different spaces. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [49:47]: Um, and y- I could never have done it w- all of the stuff I've done without them. It'd been, would've been impossible. Mary Meyer [49:53]: So what do you look for in a business partner? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [49:56]: Oh, great. That's a great question. Um, oh, what I've often done at, at businesses outside of marketing, obviously I come with the value of marketing to our business partners. But they- Mary Meyer [50:07]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [50:07]: ... what they tend to have been is they've been specialists or excellent in their space. So again, uh, my, uh, barber that I worked with, I had a barber chain where we have three or four barber shops at its height. Um, you know, he was an expert. He was in the magazines. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [50:22]: He was renowned nationally for being a top barber and doing things differently and unique. Um, so he was, you know, he was great at what he did, but he didn't know how to grow a business initially, um, because, you know, he was just knew cutting hair and doing that really well and exposure that came with it. And that goes across everything I've done, whether it be recruitment, podcast studios, it's whatever. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [50:43]: It's partnering with people that are gonna bring value in that business. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [50:48]: Um- Mary Meyer [50:49]: Sure Toby Blatchford-Tagg [50:49]: ... but also a good personal relationship. I think I had great personal relationships with those people at the time because having a business with people, uh, can be, can almost be m- even more, uh, than a relationship at times. You are so intertwined with each other. Also leaves you bonded for a long period of time. I've got people that I don't have businesses with now that just feel like family to me because of what we've been through over the years, uh, growing businesses together. Mary Meyer [51:11]: Yeah. So it's... You're kind of been the marketing- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [51:14]: So, uh- Mary Meyer [51:14]: ... partner, it, with a lot of them. Is that- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [51:16]: Yeah Mary Meyer [51:16]: ... kinda how you've chosen them? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [51:17]: Yeah, or yeah, the m- maybe the funding as well as the marketing, um, and maybe more of the business background. Um, but that's no good when you're going into a niche market. You need to know that niche, whatever mar- whatever market, you need to know it really well. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [51:32]: And the reality is when I've gone into those other markets, they weren't necessarily my expertise. My expertise are LinkedIn marketing, um- Mary Meyer [51:39]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [51:39]: ... and, and lead generation. So, um, yeah, none of those businesses would've been successful without their level of experience in that space. Mary Meyer [51:48]: I- that's... It feels like that's very good advice, and what I heard you say is, you know, you, you get someone who's very good in their space with what they do who doesn't necessarily know what you do. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [52:00]: Exactly that. Yeah. Mary Meyer [52:01]: And, and- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [52:01]: Or maybe they don't have the- Mary Meyer [52:02]: ... kind of marry the- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [52:03]: 100%, or like I, I've done it with business partner where I see p- so much potential in them. I'm like, "You're amazing at what you do. Why are you doing this with someone else? Like, you should be doing this yourself." Uh, and they, they don't even... They wouldn't have a clue where to start. So they just need that helping hand, uh, and that consistent guidance to look, do everything else, and let them just worry about what they do and then their business will thrive off the back of that because they can focus tr- fully on that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [52:28]: And if you can find people you like, like before going into business, that's one of my biggest things because it's such an emotional rollercoaster having a business with someone. Mary Meyer [52:38]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [52:38]: ... to like them is really helpful. If you don't, it, it won't last long. Mary Meyer [52:43]: That's really- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [52:43]: Yeah Mary Meyer [52:44]: ... that's, it's very true. Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [52:46]: Yeah Mary Meyer [52:46]: ... so I've always thought that, you know, and if I give advice to someone on a business is to make sure that you have something that it's viable, it's a viable product or service- Mary Meyer [52:57]: ... before you really even get rolling on anything else. Would you agree with that or no? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [53:04]: Yeah, it sort of comes back to this conversation around people with no marketing budget around risk assessment and, like, trying things in a smaller scale to prove concept first. Um, like we've just started a more re- business called Podable where we do podcasts on location. So like we're doing one in BMW next week where we go and set up in the studio- Mary Meyer [53:22]: Nice Toby Blatchford-Tagg [53:22]: ... and create a podcast and stuff like that. But like even for ourselves, you know, we've gone and we've done it on small tests before realizing there's a market for it. So you're not, not overly invested before realizing there's something in it, and I think that's a lot of things people do. They, they, they try and get everything absolutely perfect before starting, and they do that, the baseline of everything, and they go and do it and the market's not there for it, as an example. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [53:46]: And they've spent- Mary Meyer [53:47]: Right Toby Blatchford-Tagg [53:47]: ... X amount of thousand pounds, they've spent this much time, and then they've just wasted their time and money because the market's not there. Go and, go and do it first, do it on a shoestring, and once you see that, you'll feel it. You're like, "This works for him. It's gonna work for other people." Mary Meyer [54:01]: Yeah. I agree with that, so... Mary Meyer [54:05]: And having started a business during COVID where you really can't hardly even... I don't even know. I couldn't... I don't even know how I would've done that- ... um, differently than what I did. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [54:13]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [54:14]: But, uh, it, it was a little tougher then, of course, to, to do that. Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [54:19]: Totally. Totally. Mary Meyer [54:20]: Yeah. So I, I absolutely agree with that. But if you're really good, people come to you and like, "We love this stuff." I mean- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [54:26]: Yeah, totally Mary Meyer [54:26]: ... "We love what you're doing. We love this. Can, you know, can you do this for us?" Then you have something that's... Or, "Can you make this for us?" Um, which could be, uh, you make, uh, cookies. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [54:38]: Whatever. Mary Meyer [54:38]: Or- Mary Meyer [54:39]: Or cookies Mary Meyer [54:39]: ... it could be like the cutting hair or, um, decorating or, you know, you're really good at- Mary Meyer [54:46]: So- Mary Meyer [54:46]: ... all kinds of different things Toby Blatchford-Tagg [54:47]: ... so the thing is I... One thing I talk about, Mary, is I've, I've been really proud of people that try. Like, I just think it's fantastic. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [54:53]: You know, I don't... I can't speak for the US, but in the UK, um, and, and not all, but some young people just everything's a bit easy for them or done for them nowadays. I just think people going out and taking the risk and trying things themselves-I just, there's nothing more I could have, you know, better respect for, or even just hardworking people, to be honest with you. Uh, you know, I've got some, you know, four or five best friends and I'm all from different walks of life, all different levels of what would be perceived success, uh, in the general world, but they're all hardworking men for their family. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [55:23]: And I just, nothing gives me more respect than that. And they all had to go and try the hard way to, to do any of those markets. Mary Meyer [55:29]: Mm-hmm. Yeah, 'cause, you know- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [55:31]: Or women, obviously. Sorry, forgive me. Mary Meyer [55:32]: Yeah. Oh, no. You know, and I think it's, uh, it's, uh, you gotta try. Yeah, trying is, is very admirable, you know? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [55:41]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [55:41]: A lot of people who own big businesses, let's be honest, it was handed to them. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [55:45]: Yeah. So true. Mary Meyer [55:47]: So... Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [55:47]: And I think, uh, you know, as every 10 years go on, there's less people trying, for whatever reason. And again, I'm, I am sort of speaking m- more for the UK, but, um, it's definitely getting, yeah, a lot more done for you, shall we say. To, to, to link it back to my business, it's, uh, definitely much more done for you, especially in the UK. Mary Meyer [56:08]: Well, we gotta... I think with there's so much changing in, right now in the world that, um- Mary Meyer [56:13]: ... dig in, people. We gotta dig in. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [56:15]: Yeah. Dig in. Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [56:17]: 100%. Mary Meyer [56:19]: You know? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [56:19]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [56:19]: So yeah, I totally agree with that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [56:23]: I also- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [56:23]: So- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [56:23]: ... I think I've got, um, a brother who's just come out of university in the last couple of years. Um, and he, he's the... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [56:29]: I'd started The Portable where we go and do podcasts on site for him, and what he says is that for young people, especially w- with degrees or without degrees, there's so much little opportunity out, out there at the minute, especially opportunity that they would want to do. You know, like AI, international resource, all this stuff is just killing jobs in, in the Western world because they're getting done in other ways, like more cost stable ways for business owners. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [56:52]: So, you know, you do need that get up and go to, to go and make things happen really, or else no one's gonna come and knock on your door and give you a job- Mary Meyer [57:00]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [57:00]: ... or a business. Mary Meyer [57:02]: Yeah. And it, that is... You know, I've had this AI conversation and everything, and it's, it's, uh, it's distressing. Uh- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [57:09]: Hmm Mary Meyer [57:09]: ... change can be distressing. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [57:11]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [57:11]: So, uh, I think it, it does come down to you can, you can build a business around skill... I mean, there's, AI can't clean your house. Mary Meyer [57:22]: You know? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [57:23]: Oh, yeah. Mary Meyer [57:23]: The things that we would wish AI would do. Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [57:26]: Yeah, yeah Mary Meyer [57:27]: ... you know? So there's- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [57:28]: I think Elon Musk is, is trying to work on that, to be honest. I see these robots on Instagram all the time. Um, so God, so God knows, but it would creep me out, to be honest. I'd be scared that a robot was cruising around my house cleaning it up. Mary Meyer [57:42]: Yeah. I don't, I don't know that... You know, the, the reality is we... People want people, so I think there's a little bit of, uh, not that... I don't know. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [57:51]: Yeah, totally. Mary Meyer [57:51]: People say AI can do everything. I'm like, "Can it?" Because, like, I just tried to get- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [57:57]: It, it definitely can't- Mary Meyer [57:57]: ... get AI to make a little video for me, to put, like, just the AI stuff into a, a thing, and I'm like, I spent three hours- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [58:06]: Yeah Mary Meyer [58:06]: ... at, at it. It couldn't do it. I had to- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [58:08]: Yeah Mary Meyer [58:08]: ... throw it into Canva. I'm like, "This is, this is-" Mary Meyer [58:12]: Yeah Mary Meyer [58:12]: ... "not what I was wanting," you know? And I was- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [58:14]: No, I, I... We, we talked, we touched on it earlier Mary Meyer [58:16]: ... testing different things, so- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [58:16]: But I think it's a g- it's a good, like, it can help with a bit here and there, but it can't do anything by itself properly. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [58:23]: It's always just like a halfway house, really. Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [58:25]: ... that's how we advise to use it. It's a... You know, like Google. Google and, and ChatGPT, from a search engine point of view, it's not much different. It's just communicating it back to you in a different way. So it's just like an advancement on that to a certain extent. Mary Meyer [58:41]: Yeah. Where it's, um, where, yeah, where it's kinda like taking the information that it has and, and then throwing it at you. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [58:50]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [58:50]: And of course it's, it can be really- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [58:51]: Communicating it to you in a better way, really. Yeah. Mary Meyer [58:53]: Yeah. And it can also be da- I mean, there is of course the dangers in it, which is that it can, um, lie. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [58:58]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [58:58]: It just makes, it just makes up stuff. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:01]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [59:01]: I don't know if people know that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:02]: Or, or- Mary Meyer [59:02]: Hopefully everyone knows that Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:04]: ... for some reason it's financially incentivized to do X rather than Y for whatever reason, or politically, even more scary, politically, um, led by, by whatever reason. Mary Meyer [59:15]: Yeah. There's a lot of dangers that can come from that, so- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:19]: Yeah Mary Meyer [59:19]: ... yeah, for sure. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:20]: I know especially in the US it's a very, um, sensitive time politically. Mary Meyer [59:26]: Uh, it's... The... I'm telling you what . Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:31]: I've caught you there. You've got the, your throat open. Mary Meyer [59:32]: Uh, I did, I did a couple... Yeah, I did a couple episodes on Epstein files, and I feel like- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:37]: Oh, wow Mary Meyer [59:38]: ... I could probably throw... Because, well, the whole thing that I'm, was doing this is like, why is the world like this, and how can we- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:47]: Stop it Mary Meyer [59:47]: ... do it better? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:48]: Save it. Mary Meyer [59:48]: How can there be- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:49]: I'm gonna save more. Mary Meyer [59:50]: How can we, how can we save it? But I thought, I thought there's... Not, not save it. I wasn't... But, like, how- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:56]: Me and you on this podcast Mary Meyer [59:56]: ... how can we do it better? Like, you know- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [59:58]: Yeah, totally Mary Meyer [59:58]: ... I, I feel like I have looked for wisdom my whole life, and- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:02]: Hmm Mary Meyer [60:02]: ... you know, from high school, like you graduate high school, and then I graduated college, and I'm like, "Are you kidding me right now?" Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:08]: It's just it. Mary Meyer [60:08]: Like I, I got, I got all A's and did everything you told me to, and I'm- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:12]: Yeah, yeah Mary Meyer [60:13]: ... I am qualified to do nothing. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:15]: Yeah, yeah. Mary Meyer [60:16]: You know? Like I can go work at fast food or something. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:19]: I know got people that have been at work for three years rather than being at uni for three years. It's crazy. Mary Meyer [60:22]: Yeah. It's... So I just, I just feel like the wisdom that's out there is- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:27]: So do you think- Mary Meyer [60:27]: And the, the biggest talking heads are, have some wisdom, but I feel like there's better wisdom, and I've been like, I... And every guest I've had on, I'm like, "That's the wisdom-" Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:36]: Yeah Mary Meyer [60:36]: "... I've been needing." Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:38]: Do you think Epstein was killed or you think he killed himself? Mary Meyer [60:42]: I don't think he's dead. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:44]: I love it. Mary Meyer [60:44]: How about that? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:45]: Love it. Yeah. Um- Mary Meyer [60:47]: I, I'm just- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:48]: Well, I don't know Mary Meyer [60:48]: ... just look at, just looking at straight up facts, I'm just, there's- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:52]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [60:52]: Yeah. And the... Well, and that sounds really great, but- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [60:55]: I've only seen the stuff that Joe Rogan said. I'm a Joe Rogan fan, obviously as a podcaster. Um, but, um, I haven't done a deep dive into it or whatever. It just seems like there's so much information. Mary Meyer [61:04]: Uh, you can't, you can't almost as a human being do a deep dive because there's so much information out there, but- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [61:09]: Yeah Mary Meyer [61:09]: ... there was, there was a lot of shady stuff going down in the jail that's been- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [61:13]: Yeah, yeah Mary Meyer [61:13]: ... out there as that was happening. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [61:15]: Do you think he's still alive? Mary Meyer [61:16]: And, you know- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [61:16]: Definitely Mary Meyer [61:19]: It just makes the most sense to me based on- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [61:21]: Absolutely Mary Meyer [61:22]: ... the fact that there was, uh, uh, someone ... Yeah. I don't even know. Can I even put this out there? But apparently- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [61:28]: Why not? Mary Meyer [61:29]: ... uh, there was, there was someone who, at the jail who saw someone pull up, you know- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [61:35]: Yeah Mary Meyer [61:35]: ... behind and get someone in the car. And that there was someone else at the jail who was searching his death before he died- Mary Meyer [61:43]: ... you know, on Google. Um, and then there's the ties to, like, he had passports, uh, legitimate passports to other countries, so there's, like, well he was a spy. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [61:54]: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Mary Meyer [61:54]: So, like- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [61:55]: Yeah, yeah, yeah Mary Meyer [61:55]: ... and, like, if he- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [61:56]: He could have taken somewhere else Mary Meyer [61:57]: ... and if he can... Well, I, I did the, the podcast that I did was on just his, the two hours that was released from his Steve Bannon interview. And so he's- Mary Meyer [62:04]: Yeah Mary Meyer [62:04]: ... trying to fix his image there, uh, in 2019. Mary Meyer [62:09]: And so it, um, he's just saying things that are just like, um, "I'm on the Trilateral Commission. People think it's some spooky thing, some, the Illuminati or something." This is his words. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [62:21]: Mm. Yeah. Mary Meyer [62:21]: Uh, so I'm like, okay, so it's the Illuminati, it's a spooky thing. I'm just gonna go with what you said. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [62:26]: Yeah, yeah. Mary Meyer [62:26]: Uh, it just... But yeah, it takes you down roads of your life that sound just cr- uh, crazy. Mary Meyer [62:32]: Um, but then the wor- then you realize that it, it just really ... I think I could do a whole podcast where I just read documents- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [62:41]: With some of the emails, it's like you can't tell whether- Mary Meyer [62:42]: ... off of the United States, you know, websites Toby Blatchford-Tagg [62:44]: ... with some of the emails you can't tell whether he's joking or, or whether he's being serious, and he's saying the most outrageous things on email, or they're, they're saying supposedly that are his emails. It's just fascin- it is fascinating. I totally get it. I, I, um, yeah. And then the people saying that the, he had a trained or a contract killer was in his cell with him, like, the two days or three days before. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [63:05]: Um, there's just so many moving parts. It's fascinating. Mary Meyer [63:07]: I haven't seen that. I haven't heard that part. But I mean, I just... When you, when you... When I was watching the video for a way, it just, it's very disturbing, so I think I will go back at some time and do it, but it very much drains my energy to have to- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [63:22]: Yeah. Yeah Mary Meyer [63:22]: ... to have to listen to that. Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [63:23]: It takes all the positivity out of you as well. Mary Meyer [63:26]: Well, and, and part of what's, what's so disturbing about it is that it's just so... He's just such a nice... He just seems like a nice professor. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [63:34]: Oh, God. Mary Meyer [63:35]: So- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [63:35]: Yeah Mary Meyer [63:35]: ... and that's, right, isn't your stomach turning, you know, just hearing that? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [63:38]: That's his whole game, right? That's his whole game, build trust with people and- Mary Meyer [63:41]: But- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [63:41]: Yeah Mary Meyer [63:42]: ... and the, the level of intelligence that he has. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [63:44]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [63:44]: So he and Steve Bannon were talking about, um, Newton, uh, Isaac Newton, and different things like they were buddies. It's just, it was interest- it's just so the history of science. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [63:56]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [63:56]: They were talking about hundreds of years of science and math, and he's interested in high-level math, high-level science, use, you know, um, hired the, the, the scientists that make weaponry. Mary Meyer [64:12]: That's why he had the Thor Ranch. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [64:12]: Yeah, the people he's surrounded by, this crazy information knowledgery. Mary Meyer [64:16]: Oh. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [64:16]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [64:16]: Yeah, so it's just- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [64:18]: Very Mary Meyer [64:18]: ... yeah, so, so disturbing. So what can we as normal people do? All I can say is there's more normal people than there are of these, uh, shady- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [64:27]: Amen Mary Meyer [64:27]: ... shady blah, blah, blah up there. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [64:30]: Mm. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [64:31]: So true Mary Meyer [64:32]: ... you know. Until, you know, we use what we can do every day. I just... You know, if everyone does something every day, and I'm, I'm not one that has a huge amount of power or influence or anything. I'm just doing something that I can do. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [64:46]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [64:46]: And bringing some good wisdom to the world and getting that out there and, and, and, you know, you just try to go, "What are you putting in your mouth?" Let's not participate in- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [64:59]: Yeah Mary Meyer [64:59]: ... and me, me included, you know. Like- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [65:01]: Yeah Mary Meyer [65:02]: ... are we putting all kinds of... Are we just willingly loading our bodies up with toxins? Mary Meyer [65:08]: Or are we going, "What, what is, what is the best choice I can make today?" And it's, it's tough. I, I mean, like, it's, it's tough. Mary Meyer [65:18]: That's all I can say. You know? Um, but- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [65:23]: So true Mary Meyer [65:24]: ... Toby, thanks for taking us down this rabbit trail. I think, I hope everyone really enjoys this rabbit trail. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [65:29]: Sorry, my fault. Mary Meyer [65:32]: I just jumped right in too. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [65:33]: It's fascinating. It is fascinating. Mary Meyer [65:34]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [65:35]: I could... Yeah, I, I'm a- I'm aware that I'm on your podcast, so I'm not gonna keep talking about it, but I, I could just talk about for hours- Mary Meyer [65:41]: Oh, it's all good Toby Blatchford-Tagg [65:41]: ... like you said. I could just go do a whole podcast on it, but, um, yeah, it's funny. Mary Meyer [65:44]: Well, and you know, to go back to, like, why is this the way it is? Like, why do we not have, like, entrepreneurial things? Why don't we not taught that in school? Of course, the United States- Mary Meyer [65:52]: Oh Mary Meyer [65:52]: ... I don't even know in other countries. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [65:53]: Um, 'cause same in the UK. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [65:54]: I can't, I can't even ima- you know. It's crazy. It's crazy they don't teach that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [65:59]: Crazy. Tax as well, they don't teach anything like that. It's just... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [66:04]: It is cra- you know, it must, it must, there must be some ulterior... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [66:08]: Like, it makes absolutely no sense that there is no entrepreneurial class in school. It makes absolutely no sense. Like, there, it must be something that is advantageous to th- these countries that they're not taught that, i.e., they used to need... And I don't know if it's gonna change in the future, but they used to need workers for this or for that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [66:25]: So actually empowering these people and educating these people around things they could do is like, you know, you've gotta go and do that yourself. If you wanna learn about a religion you believe in or don't believe in, depending on your upbringing, then that's fine. You can go to that class for four hours a, a week. But, but actually something that's maybe f- you know, it's crazy to me, and also benefits people that don't have the traditional intelligence, um, that, that people have in education. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [66:50]: Like, entrepreneurialism doesn't necessarily have to be for an academic. It can be for, for anyone. Um, and I think that's really empowering for young people that don't necessarily have the greatest maths or English or whatever it may be- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [67:03]: ... to go into a class and be really good at something that maybe they don't fit in any of the other classes- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [67:08]: ... that they don't even know just because they're not given the opportunity. Mary Meyer [67:12]: Yeah. Well, and, and, and this is also why I have chosen Epstein over other topics to go what is it all about, 'cause, uh- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [67:19]: Mm Mary Meyer [67:20]: ... uh, Ghislaine Maxwell's dad wrote our textbooks. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [67:24]: No way. No way.Oh my God, that makes it even more cr- like- Mary Meyer [67:31]: McGraw, McGraw Hills actually Toby Blatchford-Tagg [67:33]: ... it goes back to that top level of like- Mary Meyer [67:35]: Like, yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [67:35]: ... how the world runs and who decides what. It's crazy. Mary Meyer [67:37]: How the, and who decides what, and it's been like that it seems like for a long time when you look at it. So like the Rockefellers- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [67:43]: Yeah. I assume it's the same in the UK but like- Mary Meyer [67:44]: ... or like y'all are, y'all are gonna go work in, uh, factories and don't think for yourself Toby Blatchford-Tagg [67:48]: ... American pop... 100%. I, I assume it's the same in, in the UK, but like American politics, it's always like who runs which group. Like there're these always people above funding. And look, I'm, I'm taking this from American TV programs, right? So how true it is, I, I don't know. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [68:06]: But it's always about a certain group of people with an outrageous amount of money leading a, a political party. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [68:12]: And then that leads everything. Everything comes from there, which is just crazy- Mary Meyer [68:16]: Yeah Toby Blatchford-Tagg [68:16]: ... that the free world is, is basically led by elite individuals in- indirectly. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [68:21]: It's cra- it's crazy to think. Mary Meyer [68:22]: Well, and I did a whole thing on the Trilateral Commission based on what Epstein said, which was that the trial att- he's like, "I was asked to be on it by David Rockefeller." And peop- people think it's a spooky thing, but business leaders, and I'm gonna summarize what he said. Uh, business- Mary Meyer [68:39]: Yeah Mary Meyer [68:39]: ... I'm sorry, government leaders don't know finance. They don't know anything about finance outside of their, their personal checkbook. Mary Meyer [68:46]: And so they need business people to lead, lead the country basically. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [68:51]: Yeah, crazy. Mary Meyer [68:51]: So to create stability. And so- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [68:53]: Economy Mary Meyer [68:53]: ... that's what we're doing. We're creating... But we is the Rockefellers and the- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [69:00]: Yeah Mary Meyer [69:00]: ... Rothschilds and the Epstein class. Mary Meyer [69:04]: Those are the ones who are then it's, it's... Then you're like, of course they're picking the people. They c- they have the money to fund the campaigns. Mary Meyer [69:12]: So they're just picking, and they can pick, they can fund both sides. Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [69:15]: And the outcomes that suit them. Mary Meyer [69:17]: So it's- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [69:17]: They get the outcomes that suit them. Mary Meyer [69:18]: Yeah. And, and it's like the trilaterals, Asia, Europe, the Americas, and so I think it's expanded since then. That was 2019. Mary Meyer [69:26]: So it's, it's really like that, that's not even a leap to go- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [69:29]: No Mary Meyer [69:29]: ... the people that are funding the campaigns and are kind of like all directed at the same thing, so yeah. Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [69:37]: Crazy. Mary Meyer [69:38]: No, well, you know, it is crazy, isn't it? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [69:41]: Yeah, it is crazy. Mary Meyer [69:42]: Like this- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [69:42]: I mean, it is really crazy Mary Meyer [69:42]: ... this is not, this is not what we're getting up early working hard for. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [69:48]: No, I, I, I, yes. Also they talk about, and again, I, I speak in UK-wise, but they say that basically like there's 60 million people in the UK, uh, of which 40 million, uh, are income providers or whatever, and only I think it's like seven million people pay tax. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [70:06]: Uh, so it's like seven million people are paying for everyone else indirectly or not. Um, and it's just a crazy, it's a crazy world we live in. And it do- it's just scary, isn't it? Because it's just, it's getting more extreme every, feels like every year. Um, but yeah, I don't wanna go too doomsday sans, uh, sans that. Mary Meyer [70:25]: Well, 'cause you know, there's... Uh, so the reason like I, I had, I, I put some of the stuff up there, 'cause obviously my, you know, my audience is a lot of business people- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [70:37]: Mm Mary Meyer [70:37]: ... is, is because it, there is still the level of what do we do? Like common sense every day, we're getting up, we're going to work. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [70:46]: Mm. Mary Meyer [70:46]: What do we do? And I think it, in the, in the scheme of things we're getting larger, like global. We gotta find good people globally, uh, but we, and then we also gotta be really local. So like we're, um, you know, doing more eating food local. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [71:02]: So true. So true. Mary Meyer [71:03]: We're getting out and meeting the people in our community locally. Um, and some of this, like I was in Nashville back when, you know, some of the DVD and all that kind of stuff sto- and, you know, CDs stopped. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [71:15]: Yeah, yeah. Mary Meyer [71:16]: They had, they had to reinvent the whole industry. And what did they do? They went out and started making money more on singing live, so- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [71:24]: Yeah, yeah Mary Meyer [71:25]: ... on concerts. So there's, um, there's, there's always a way. Mary Meyer [71:29]: Like if we just think about what do we need as people, we need food, you know, we need good quality air, we need, you know, good quality water. Mary Meyer [71:40]: No one's even trying to c- there's, there's probably more we could do for creating better air filter, water filter, the whole f- you know, I've thought- Mary Meyer [71:47]: ... about that kind of thing. There's, there's still b- there's business in the, in the chaos- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [71:53]: Mm Mary Meyer [71:53]: ... um, that can be done and needs to be done, and if we don't, we gotta find our efficacy where we can find it. Like what else are we gonna do? Um- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [72:02]: But it's funny, you talk about- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [72:03]: You know Toby Blatchford-Tagg [72:03]: ... uh, control and, um, you know, people, who's controlling what, et cetera. I don't know if you noticed, but, um, they canceled in the UK, um, the O2 Wireless Festival 'cause Kanye was like the main person on it, because they wouldn't let him in the country. Mary Meyer [72:19]: Oh. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [72:20]: Um- Mary Meyer [72:20]: I didn't know that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [72:21]: Which again, it all comes back- Mary Meyer [72:22]: Why? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [72:22]: ... to control and people saying, "What?" Yeah, the Ka- canceled, and it was only last week that they had to cancel the whole event because Kanye wasn't gonna be allowed in the country basically. Mary Meyer [72:35]: Is it 'cause you just don't know what's gonna come out of his mouth? That's interesting. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [72:42]: Well, I guess so. I, I, I think they, they just don't like what he said previously. Um, I'm not a big Kanye West fan or anything like that, but I am pro-free speech. I think it, it's kind of, to me it's kind of crazy someone can't be allowed in the country 'cause of something they've said. Don't get me wrong, uh, you know, I'm not a, you know, a, a Kanye fan. I just, I don't know, just something about not being allowed to free travel around countries because of some ridiculous things he's said, which are horrendous, don't get me wrong. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [73:07]: Um, I don't know. I just don't know if the freedom of speech and freedom of travel should, should be mixed. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [73:15]: Personally. Mary Meyer [73:16]: W- we could, we could keep everyone who's, um, doing the, uh, grape of kids, that they could be not allowed to, uh, travel. Let's do that instead. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [73:28]: Yeah. That'd make a lot more sense, wouldn't it? Mary Meyer [73:31]: Um, it would make a lot more sense. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [73:32]: That would make a lot more sense. Mary Meyer [73:32]: It would make a lot more sense.Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [73:34]: Yeah. Crazy. Mary Meyer [73:36]: I do try to- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [73:37]: It is crazy, yeah Mary Meyer [73:37]: ... I try to keep this so PG, but it's, it's hard sometimes. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [73:40]: Yeah. So, I know. Excuse me. I've, I've talked enough. I might stop here, might. Mary Meyer [73:45]: Yeah. Um, but anyway. Well, Toby, thank you. So, um, if people want to reach you, listen to some of your things, 'cause they... It's time to let's get back and grow a business, 'cause, you know? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [73:59]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [74:00]: There, there is some power in that. What do they do? How do they find it? Toby Blatchford-Tagg [74:02]: Yeah, just, uh, theleadlab.com. www.theleadlab, theleadlab.com. Um, and yeah. We'll get some links sent over, Mary, so you can put a... Toby Blatchford-Tagg [74:12]: If someone wants a, a free, uh, LinkedIn health check, look at their profile, look at their messaging data, whatever, they can book in directly and do that with us totally free of charge, or they can go to the website, uh, and, and join the webinar for the next one, which I... We actually have one this afternoon. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [74:25]: So the next one will be in two or three weeks. Mary Meyer [74:28]: Yeah. Uh, the, the LinkedIn health check, I love that. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [74:32]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [74:32]: So what do you- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [74:33]: Happy to help Mary Meyer [74:33]: ... what do you do? They... You, you look at the web... You look at their page and- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [74:36]: So they can show us their profile. They might be doing some messaging already. It's a lot about questions. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [74:40]: Like, if they've been doing something already, they, they might have used some, like, LinkedIn software themselves to do some automation. Um, and they've got questions about that, and we'll help them. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [74:48]: Or their messaging journey or what we think they should do or... Yeah, it's, it's always unique to the client, 'cause the client's sort of sat there in their, in their world doing some- Toby Blatchford-Tagg [74:58]: ... LinkedIn outreach or not, as the case may be, thinking about it, and they're just not really sure where to start. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [75:03]: Um, the webinar's obviously gonna give them a lot of tools on how to start if they wanna or how to get better if they're already doing it. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [75:09]: Um, and the one-to-one is just really, you know, it's rather than just sit through the webinar and a- ask questions through the webinar, we try and answer all the questions in the webinar. But we get between 4- and 500 people every single time we do it. Um, so- Mary Meyer [75:24]: Oh, okay Toby Blatchford-Tagg [75:24]: ... it's quite hard to answer all of them. And also, just a one text message question is not necessarily nuanced enough for us to, to really help people. So, um, we have a team of four people capable to take, uh, the free, um, LinkedIn health check. So that's what they're there to do, to help people and, uh, and potentially if they wanna work with us, great. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [75:42]: If they wanna recommend us after that to someone else, that's great, too. Mary Meyer [75:45]: Yeah. Awesome. All right. Thank, Tob- thank you, Toby. I appreciate you. Thank you for your time and, um, uh, for sharing the wisdom with everyone. And you all go check out The Lead Lab. I did try to look at your website, and I looked up Lead Lab, and that is not you. Mary Meyer [76:03]: It is The Lead Lab. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [76:05]: The Lead Lab, yes, dot com. Mary Meyer [76:07]: I, I figured it out. Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [76:09]: No, great. Thanks very much for having us, Mary. Mary Meyer [76:12]: Thanks. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [76:12]: I really appreciate it. Mary Meyer [76:12]: Yeah. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [76:12]: I really enjoyed the chat as well. Mary Meyer [76:14]: Yeah. Me too. Me too. All right. Thanks, Toby. Toby Blatchford-Tagg [76:18]: Cheers. See you later, Mary. Bye.