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I Don’t Make Logical Decisions—I Let Astrology Run My Whole Life · Babes, how did you get here

0:00
What does it look like when you arrive and you're leaving your home that you presumably still love at this point and you're now in this foreign land?
0:08
First job.
0:10
Oof.
0:11
It's just one of those things that I remember vividly because it's such a change in my life.
0:17
What it looks like is... School in America.
0:21
How is it different than school in Sierra Leone?
0:24
Very different.
0:27
I'm laughing because I, you know, I worked in education, but I was also a student in the U.S.
0:32
Sierra Leone is strict.
0:34
Sierra Leone is punctual.
0:36
Sierra Leone is uniform.
0:37
Sierra Leone is discipline.
0:38
Sierra Leone is... You mentioned about being a single mom in a new country.
0:44
And the thing is, we hear a lot of talk about co-parenting, right?
0:47
People do one week on hospital.
0:50
And I'm just wondering, being a single mother in a completely different country that is very far away, right?
0:57
Not like you were in Miami to Jamaica for capital and you couldn't...
1:00
How is managing that dynamic in terms of, because you can't call parents.
1:05
No, there's no call parenting.
1:07
But I mean, my dynamic was that it was going to be okay for me to get up in the country.
1:13
Because if it wasn't dynamic that... Me too.
1:19
We're dropping new episodes every single week.
1:22
So make sure you subscribe.
1:23
You don't want to miss this, babes.
1:24
And leave a comment and tell me, what do you want to hear out of my next conversation?
1:29
Your support really helps this community grow.
1:31
And if you know someone who's quietly been thinking, should they take that next big leap?
1:35
Babes, send them the podcast.
1:38
It feels like now, more than ever, people are thinking about moving abroad.
1:42
I am April Jackson, and I'm currently traveling the world, finding interesting people who have done just that.
1:48
Today, I'm speaking with Marissa Senya-Lungor, a woman whose life spans continents, belief systems, and reinventions.
1:56
Born in Freetown, Sierra Leone, raised in the States and now living right here in Cape Town, Marissa is a global citizen, an international education consultant, an education tourism advisor, but above all, she's a devoted mother navigating life abroad on her own terms.
2:15
But before we go deep, I must ask, babes, how did you get here?
2:20
Wow, thank you so much for having me, April.
2:23
I was so overwhelmed by that introduction.
2:26
How did I get here?
2:29
Following my intuition, listening to that quiet voice that said, it's time for a change.
2:35
And taking the steps I needed, one step at a time, one small decision at a time to finally get here four years later.
2:44
Now that we're sitting, it's been four years since that moment.
2:48
But taking that step, once the first thought came in my mind, hey, what's going on?
2:55
I think it's time to leave America.
2:57
So the first thought, was it just to leave America or was it specifically to come to Cape Town?
3:02
It was to leave America and I knew it was to come to Africa.
3:07
It wasn't to come to Cape Town.
3:09
No, it was to come to Africa.
3:12
I just, but Africa's big.
3:15
Can you tell me why you wanted to leave America?
3:18
Woo, child.
3:22
Well, it had been about pushing 30 years.
3:30
Like you mentioned, I was born in Freetown.
3:33
And I always knew that I would return to the continent because I was, I mean, I was young when I left.
3:41
I was nine.
3:42
But I was old enough to remember.
3:44
Right.
3:46
Old enough to know that, oh, life is about to change.
3:49
And then life changed.
3:50
And it was drastic.
3:51
Yeah.
3:52
So I knew from that moment on that I would return.
3:57
I just had no idea what that return would look like.
4:01
I have so many questions.
4:02
So you say you remember life in Sierra Leone.
4:05
Can you describe it to me?
4:06
I don't know anything about Sierra Leone.
4:10
Mango trees.
4:12
Okay.
4:13
Running outside barefoot.
4:17
Access to the ocean.
4:19
I can see the beach from, you know, our veranda.
4:24
Hills.
4:25
Very mountainous.
4:27
That's actually the meaning of the name Sierra de Leora.
4:31
It's Portuguese from mountainous and then like region and then lions.
4:38
And so they just kind of put that all together.
4:40
when they came, even though we are not Portuguese, we were never colonized by Portuguese, but they put their flag.
4:48
And that's how they claimed the territory.
4:51
But so that's the name.
4:52
So just really lush and just nature filled and just natural food.
4:59
That's, you know, I think of, when I think of my childhood, I think of just access to the land, immediate access.
5:07
My name, Marissa, means Latin of the sea.
5:11
So being near water has always been a thing for me.
5:14
And when I'm not near water, I feel it.
5:18
So childhood was that.
5:19
It was beach trips.
5:21
It was climbing trees with your friends.
5:24
It was heavy academics and studying because, you know, these.
5:30
Even not nine.
5:34
Listen, Sierra Leone was known as the Athens of West Africa.
5:38
Okay.
5:38
So back in like the 1800s, you know, folks would migrate from different West African countries to pursue their education.
5:46
So, you know, in terms of my heritage, a lot of my background is mixed with different West African countries because of that migration to Sierra Leone to advance their education.
5:58
Okay.
5:59
So education, so that was the tag, the Athens of West Africa.
6:03
Right.
6:04
So that was a big deal.
6:06
I mean, we went to private schools, you studied, and you were ranked.
6:11
So, like, class ranks.
6:13
Okay.
6:14
Yeah.
6:14
So even at that, so when you said, do you remember, yes.
6:16
I remember because I had to study for exams and and your scores you know every term was was posted publicly before we continue make sure that you join our community by clicking the link below you will get to choose thumbnails before the episodes go live pick our next destinations even recommend guests I really cannot wait for you to help me shape where this podcast goes
6:47
I was a teacher's kid.
6:48
Okay.
6:49
So I had to be ranking in the top three.
6:52
It was unacceptable to be anything below that.
6:55
And even when it was like three, I was like, oh, could have been two.
6:59
And it was two.
7:00
You could have been one.
7:02
So that was the academic pressure.
7:05
heavy, heavy.
7:06
So yeah, and then of course, church, that was also a big part of life because my mother was like the choir director slash music teacher and, and so that space of being in a congregation and participating in the children's activities was also deeply embedded
7:29
in my life so I mean it was busy it was but it was fun and it was I it felt idyllic at the time so when you find out that you're going to America to live can you remember that emotion that feeling
7:45
I do.
7:46
I do remember it.
7:48
You know, America was that place that, you know, you talk about going abroad.
7:53
That was like that was a flex, you know, for me, like that childhood circle of mine.
7:59
It was a bunch of private school kids talking about, well, where are you traveling to next?
8:05
Oh, I went to England.
8:07
Oh, I went to Germany.
8:08
So everybody was putting it out there.
8:13
But nobody was saying they went to America.
8:15
So America was like, ooh, this exotic place, far away.
8:21
It wasn't Europe that children were aspiring to visit.
8:28
So I remember kind of that conversation because our country was kind of in the early stages of a civil war.
8:37
Okay.
8:38
So we were in the capital, which is where the rebels were making their way to eventually.
8:44
But they were starting out on the outskirts, the border of country.
8:48
So it felt like we had time.
8:50
Okay.
8:51
Yeah.
8:51
So that was the way to put it.
8:53
And so the conversation in schools were just like, well, where is your family going to go?
8:59
Everybody was kind of trading notes about how—
9:03
long maybe they would stay around in the country um where it's a time where everybody is moving thinking about like like the the logistics of you know this war thing looks like it's it's serious right and it was already impacting our lives in what way um we had curfews like 6 p.m so like so i remember that being everybody had to be inside and is that because there was fear that rebels were going to be in the streets
9:30
Well, because there was activity.
9:32
Okay.
9:32
So we lived across the military barracks at the time.
9:35
So even though like it's safe and like my father was a government employee at the time, you still felt the tension in the air.
9:47
And then sometimes, you know, you're listening to the radio because it's the 90s.
9:51
You listen, you listen to news on the radio and you are hearing about what is happening
9:59
in a remote village somewhere, but it's still in your country.
10:02
So there was an awareness that something was descending, but it wasn't quite here yet.
10:09
So we were all trying to just take it one day at a time.
10:12
And the kids, for us, our translation of that was, where are you going to go?
10:16
It's a cool place.
10:18
And these were the cool places.
10:20
And America was the coolest of the coolest at the time.
10:24
And what part of the states did you land?
10:26
We landed in Southern California, Orange County.
10:29
Was that the first time you'd gone to America?
10:31
Yes.
10:31
Okay.
10:32
Do you know why your parents chose Orange County?
10:34
We had family.
10:35
Okay.
10:35
We had family on my mom's side.
10:38
Her siblings had migrated earlier, maybe to advance their education, that kind of thing, because that was also something that was happening.
10:49
Even my dad had...
10:52
I think in the 70s, he did his graduate studies in New York.
10:58
Okay.
10:58
And then he went right back.
11:00
So we were the ones that were in Sierra Leone, but my mother's siblings were in Orange County, California.
11:07
So she had two sisters and one brother, and they were already there.
11:13
And then we also had family in the U.K., so there was kind of a bit of a tug of war between the two places, but obviously Orange County won.
11:22
So tell me Orange County.
11:24
I have gone to school in the States, but I was New York side.
11:27
I've never actually been to California.
11:29
What does it look like when you arrive and you're leaving your home that you presumably still love at this point and you're now in this foreign land?
11:40
It's just one of those things that I remember vividly because it's such a change in my life.
11:46
What it looks like is the night before Christmas
11:50
having conversations with my dad and knowing that he wasn't coming with us oh really yes and not really um processing what that meant um that a parent is not coming um as in not coming indefinitely or he's coming delayed later okay what did later mean it would do later not in your book
12:16
But I'm not coming with you at this time.
12:18
Right.
12:19
So we knew.
12:19
So it felt heavy.
12:21
This thing that once felt exciting when you're talking in the playground with your friends suddenly felt real.
12:28
And it was heavy.
12:29
So I remember that the night before and sitting, you know, in our bedroom and having this kind of last in-person conversation with my father.
12:40
about America because he knew from the 70s.
12:43
But he's trying to explain the 1970s America to the 1990s America that we were, you know, 20 years later, America that we were going to be seeing.
12:53
So it just felt difficult.
12:58
heavy and then the next day when we raid our way to the airport Lungay International that's when it hit because you know there's that section where you're walking all the travelers, my mother my siblings, my grandmother came with us
13:16
Um, but that, and my dad was with us until it was time to separate.
13:21
And that's the moment that it hit me that, oh, he said he's not coming.
13:26
And that's when I lost it.
13:28
Yeah.
13:28
Yeah.
13:30
I always find airports to be really interesting spaces, airports and hospitals, right?
13:34
Because the best is happening in the sense that for some people, they're going on holiday.
13:38
They're having an amazing time.
13:39
Their energy is really positive.
13:40
And then for a lot of people at the airport, it's a super sad time.
13:44
And yet all of these emotions are happening in this one space, very, very close together.
13:49
I just think that at nine, it's a lot to process him not coming.
13:55
Yeah.
13:55
Are you close to your dad?
13:56
Nine year old you are you?
13:57
Yes.
13:58
Nine year old me was very close to my dad.
14:00
OK.
14:00
Yes.
14:00
And also this is a time we forget, right, that it's not WhatsApp.
14:03
It's not FaceTime.
14:05
No.
14:05
It's not as accessible.
14:07
Exactly.
14:08
It's a phone.
14:09
It's a landline.
14:10
Yeah.
14:10
What's the time difference between California and Sierra?
14:14
Right now it's 10 hours.
14:15
10 hours.
14:16
So actually, just kidding.
14:17
That's in Cape Town.
14:19
Okay.
14:20
Yeah, between, but Orange County and Sierra Leone, okay, eight hours.
14:25
Eight hours.
14:25
Eight hours.
14:26
So seven, eight, depending on the time of year.
14:29
School in America, how is it different than school in Sierra Leone?
14:35
Very different.
14:37
I'm laughing because I worked in education, but I was also a student in the U.S.
14:43
Sierra Leone is strict.
14:44
Sierra Leone is punctual.
14:46
Sierra Leone is uniform.
14:47
Sierra Leone is discipline.
14:49
Sierra Leone is yes, ma'am.
14:51
Yes, sir.
14:52
Stand up.
14:53
Greet your teacher.
14:55
You know, like, don't make eye contact.
14:56
It's disrespectful to look at an adult in the eye.
14:59
It is study.
15:01
It is rankings.
15:03
It's, yeah, it's very rigid.
15:08
So that was Sierra Leone School Aid.
15:14
free clothes, like everybody's just wearing what they want to wear, what is this?
15:18
Do you think movies are a good representation?
15:22
Because it does seem very casual.
15:24
Come from clothing, lots of bells ringing, lots of corridor chat, is that how it is in real life?
15:32
It is in certain places.
15:35
And because I grew up in a place that tends to be in the movies, I would say yes.
15:40
But obviously, if you're growing up in middle America, in the South, you're not represented.
15:47
Where I grew up, it was represented in the movies.
15:49
So yes, I would say that was pretty.
15:52
On the note.
15:52
Did you enjoy the casualness?
15:55
I struggled.
15:56
I struggled with the casualness.
15:59
I did initially.
16:01
It was a struggle because I was like, I'm not going to get in trouble for, you know, and then but that didn't mean that there were it had its own way.
16:11
Right.
16:11
It had its own expectations.
16:12
And so there were things that you would get in trouble for in that setting.
16:15
Right.
16:16
That were different and having to adjust.
16:18
It was watching kids get up and do the Pledge of Allegiance to a country.
16:26
What are they doing?
16:27
And then they're looking at me like...
16:29
What are you doing?
16:31
So, you know, there was that definite.
16:33
And it was a shock.
16:35
I mean, Freetown and Orange County, it couldn't be more different.
16:37
Really?
16:38
Couldn't be more different.
16:39
How do you think that you are different having had, because nine years old, like you say, it's long enough to remember, but you still have a good stretch of being raised elsewhere.
16:50
Yes.
16:51
Do you feel that you're American or do you feel that you're Sierra Leonean?
16:55
Well, yeah.
16:58
I feel that I'm Sierra Leonean American.
17:01
Okay.
17:02
And what does that mean?
17:04
Or an American Sierra Leonean, right?
17:08
An Americanized Sierra Leonean.
17:10
Okay.
17:10
Yeah.
17:11
That's more of what I feel like.
17:15
I don't feel American in the way that somebody who is generationally American feels because I was naturalized.
17:22
Yeah.
17:24
But I also know America in a way that somebody who is generationally American doesn't because I was naturalized.
17:30
I know their immigration system.
17:32
I know what it takes to become American.
17:35
And that's a process that generational Americans just don't know.
17:40
They wouldn't experience it.
17:42
So I would say, yes, that that difference kind of sets you apart a bit.
17:48
And then Sierra Leone is a tiny country on the west coast.
17:51
What's your population?
17:53
West, like 5 million.
17:55
Babe, I'm running 2.8, okay?
17:58
When I came in, they told me 50 odd million.
18:00
I was like, what?
18:01
This country is massive.
18:02
Africa is massive, yeah.
18:04
It's massive compared to what we're, yes.
18:06
You were used to, definitely.
18:07
Yes, but then, of course, I'm used to America coming.
18:10
So I'm like, okay.
18:12
$50 million is manageable.
18:14
When you started school, do you remember how you were received by other students?
18:19
Yes.
18:20
Yes, it was tough.
18:21
It was tough.
18:23
Orange County, at that time, it was diverse, but it was a diversity that did not include people who look like me.
18:31
Okay.
18:32
So it was, I would say...
18:36
White, Hispanic, from Mexico, Puerto Rico, but more so Mexico, south of that part of the U.S.
18:45
It was El Salvador, you know, that parts of Latin America were strong, heavily represented.
18:52
And then it was the Asian Mecca, and I think it still is, in terms of like the largest population.
18:58
immigration, like migrant population from Asian countries in the US is Orange County.
19:04
So even in the 90s, that was that diversity in Asian culture was present, like heavily present.
19:12
So I think it's a completely different experience for an Asian kid coming in than say somebody from Sierra Leone coming in.
19:19
So for me, yes, it was, yes, people say it's diverse.
19:23
It is, but it just, I barely saw people who look like me.
19:26
So that was huge.
19:28
That was jarring.
19:29
Especially coming from a country where you're the majority.
19:32
Right.
19:33
How are you processing this in childhood?
19:36
I'm shocked.
19:37
I'm so shocked.
19:39
I'm shocked.
19:40
That's how I process it.
19:41
I'm shocked.
19:42
I'm like, whoa.
19:44
I mean, yeah, I watched movies.
19:46
I watched, what did I watch?
19:47
I watched Coming to America.
19:48
That was like my favorite movie.
19:50
Whatever.
19:50
But...
19:52
Nothing prepares you for your own personal culture shock, especially as a kid.
19:57
And kids are so blunt.
19:59
Yes.
20:00
They're not like adults where adults will filter and maybe keep their opinions a bit more reserved.
20:08
Kids are going to be blunt.
20:09
There's no filter.
20:10
They're going to tell you like it is.
20:11
Huh, where are you from?
20:14
You're not one of us.
20:16
But, but I, but you know, I'm trying to connect on the playground and it's like, uh, you don't sound like us.
20:25
What is, what are you worried?
20:26
What is, what is that?
20:27
when I wear like my prints like matching.
20:29
I don't know the time I was born.
20:32
No, but astrology can help you figure that out.
20:34
So yes, I was really super interested.
20:36
Okay.
20:37
So we'll get there.
20:37
Yeah, we'll get there.
20:38
No, I figured.
20:40
And yeah, Bali just feels good to me.
20:43
Okay, and I have one of my girls is in Bali.
20:46
Really?
20:46
Yeah, one of my spiritual girlies is in Bali.
20:49
Yeah.
20:49
So, yeah.
20:50
And so I'm back there.
20:51
Okay.
20:52
I only did one episode in Bali, even though I was there for like three months back and forth.
20:57
I was just, yeah, I was just not like pressuring it.
21:01
Yeah.
21:01
And also I was meeting a lot of people who just walk around in Lycra all day.
21:06
Yeah.
21:07
And that's, I don't want to talk to you.
21:08
No disrespect, but like, I just, I don't want to.
21:11
So I was like, rather than force just numbers, I'd rather wait until you meet the right people.
21:17
And so I met on my penultimate day.
21:20
I was just beside a couple, and I just felt like asking him, where are you from?
21:24
And the gentleman in particular was really kind with the girls, so I had moved my things to make some space for them.
21:30
And sometimes, as I'm sure you're aware, people, and I can tell that they don't have kids, which is relevant, because sometimes the people don't have children,
21:37
they're just a bit huffy and puffy.
21:39
And he was so sweet.
21:41
And so I was like, the energy was good, like comfortable enough for me to be like, where do you live?
21:45
And he's lived there for 15 years, which is not normal.
21:47
Wow, that's not normal.
21:48
Right, so immediately again, I was like, oh, that's interesting.
21:51
Then the girl who looks mixed race, she is born.
21:55
in Bali.
21:55
Her dad's Jamaican.
21:57
I said, what?
21:58
Her mother has an ackee tree in her yard.
22:00
I was like, pardon?
22:02
So I was like, would your mom want to come on the podcast too?
22:04
I was trying to help with family.
22:06
So again, I felt really good about them.
22:09
And so when I go back, I will film them.
22:12
And you tend to find, once you find
22:14
Like three or four.
22:15
Yeah.
22:16
The rest come.
22:17
Yep.
22:17
From their pool.
22:19
And so I just didn't want to afford.
22:20
You have a lot of people in Bali pretending.
22:23
Yes.
22:23
You know what I mean?
22:24
Yes.
22:24
The spirituality game is tense there.
22:29
Yeah.
22:29
But then I need to make my way back to Jamaica after Bali.
22:33
Okay.
22:33
But I'm not quite sure the route yet because I'm not doing 32 hours straight.
22:37
Yes.
22:40
I want to understand, in Sierra Leone, it sounds like you were a family of a particular status, right?
22:46
You're at private school, your dad's working for the government, your mom's in education, and I imagine that that comes with certain social status.
22:56
Is that fair?
22:56
That's pretty accurate on the nose.
22:58
I'm really interested to know if when you move to California, is that maintained?
23:07
This is this.
23:08
Oh, he just asked a heavy one because that was my struggle.
23:12
That was one of my initial struggles because.
23:16
I think when you're an immigrant, people look at you and assume that you are trying to climb up.
23:22
And we're all struggling and we're all struggling and especially coming from Africa.
23:29
the perception in Orange County and much of the U.S. at that time, was that, was, oh, and the fact that I was coming because there was a war.
23:41
So a bit of it was justified of like, okay, well, you're coming to seek refuge.
23:48
But in terms of status, yeah, it dipped.
23:52
There was a considerable dip because I had two parents in the home and comfortable middle class in Africa is very different from, first of all, middle class in the US period.
24:06
But then when you migrate and now I'm coming in with one working parent as opposed to two and
24:16
no father, just, I mean, they're great women, they're my grandmother, but she's not gonna be working.
24:22
And then now we're going to be living with family.
24:26
That's not, that wasn't how we were doing it in Freetown.
24:30
We had our own place and it was our own life and everybody had their own places and we could go and connect with family.
24:36
Now all of a sudden we're, we're squeezing in, you know, a bedroom with, with this, with this family member and that, and it was a shock.
24:47
So in terms of status, and then I had support.
24:50
I used to have Nanny helping me.
24:53
We had a driver when my dad couldn't drive us to school, for sure.
24:56
Sorry.
25:01
We have to talk about the Nanny driver thing.
25:04
And the reason I'm nodding is because...
25:07
For you it's Sierra Leone, for me it's Jamaica, right?
25:10
And even the other day I was on a live and I said, someone asked me, their child was ill and they were saying that the doctor said have cowpaw and they know that I'm not into sugar.
25:20
So they were asking, you know, if I had an opinion and casually talking, I wasn't like anything premeditated.
25:26
I just said, you know, my helper used to always make this thing with garlic and everyone on the live was just like, sorry, did you just say your help?
25:34
And I said, oh, clearly you're not Jamaican, right?
25:37
But first of all, I wouldn't say the help.
25:39
To me, that's a very different kind of dynamic.
25:41
It is.
25:41
I was explaining my helper.
25:43
I was like, this is a lady who lives with us, and she is family, and she helps look after the house and look after me as a child, and I love my helper.
25:54
But immediately, even through the screen,
25:57
you got this thing of, oh, I think people are confused because again, Jamaica, we're supposed to all be hungry and living in a ghetto and like dodging bullets.
26:07
Remember also I'm from Kingston.
26:08
So people have an even more vivid image of what they think Kingston to be.
26:13
And I went to boarding school in England when I was 13.
26:18
And I felt the need to explain to people that the life I live in Jamaica, you've never seen.
26:25
Right?
26:26
And it wasn't about being arrogant.
26:27
No.
26:28
I just felt that it was my responsibility
26:32
to let people know, broaden your spectrum.
26:35
Because the things that you think we're doing, you honestly could not imagine the quality of life.
26:42
And so when you're seeing about your experience and your life, I think it's also, we say that, oh, this is the 90s.
26:49
I think we might be surprised how many people still, first of all, think Africa is one place.
26:55
Right.
26:55
And think that everyone in Africa is suffering.
26:58
Yeah.
27:00
You know, and I guess there's twofold, right?
27:03
Because there's your personal experience as the child feeling a difference, because again, the life I live in Jamaica is not the life that I live in the UK.
27:10
It is different, but it's also feeling the need to sit, set the story straight.
27:16
Absolutely.
27:17
Oh, absolutely.
27:19
Yeah.
27:19
And I and in Orange County, I had to set the story straight.
27:24
It was imperative.
27:25
that I set the story straight.
27:27
Because again, I wasn't just the immigrant black girl.
27:32
It was just like, you're from this place that we've never heard about, and we just know it's Africa.
27:39
And we know what we see on TV when we talk about Africa.
27:44
It's it's it's the starving child.
27:46
It's, you know, the flies and whatnot.
27:48
It's the we are the world.
27:50
Save the children.
27:51
Yeah, that's that's it.
27:53
Do you think you ever absorbed a bit of that in your childhood?
27:57
Or were you always very strong and proud and new?
28:01
Because sometimes the way people treat us, we can know something cognitively, but going through the daily motions of people treating us a particular way can sometimes become a part of our character.
28:13
I think I was very fortunate.
28:16
Those nine years in Sierra Leone really fortified me.
28:22
And I didn't realize...
28:24
because I didn't think I was prepared for Orange County.
28:26
But because of those nine years, you know, it just instilled a pride in me.
28:32
And I just refused to let anybody.
28:35
And and when I say that, I'm not just saying that just to say to say that there was the evidence of that was
28:40
I would do presentations.
28:42
I was that type that would be like, oh, you don't know about my country?
28:46
But okay.
28:47
I'm going to go home.
28:48
I'm going to go, mommy make this, grandma make this, and they will make a dish.
28:53
And I was doing that through high school.
28:55
So, you know, I came at nine, but this was happening everywhere I went.
28:58
So it was elementary school, middle school, and then high school.
29:02
So I'm that one that's, you know –
29:05
Now I went from like, okay, I have to wear this print.
29:09
I can't, I need to dress American.
29:11
I went from that and then maybe two years later, the accent changed.
29:15
And so now I'm sounding more like, you know, I'm from, I'm in Orange County, but everybody knows I'm really not from Orange County.
29:24
But so there's a bit of like, okay, you're, you're going to adjust to your environment.
29:29
But at the same time, this other side was, I was getting in fights, especially that first year.
29:35
a lot, I was a skinny little girl, so people were trying.
29:39
And so for that, I had to defend myself.
29:43
And I could not, so even if I felt a type of way, I couldn't look weak.
29:49
That was a no.
29:51
So I would come home, I mean it was so frequent that I would come home and like parts of my shirt was ripped because I had gotten in a fight in the playground and people were looking at me like, Marissa, you were fighting?
30:02
I was fighting for my life, yes!
30:05
You can't come at me and say X, Y, and Z and I'm just gonna take it because there's a crowd.
30:10
Are your siblings in the same school at this point?
30:13
Yes and no.
30:13
Okay.
30:14
Yes and no because we're all five years apart.
30:16
Okay.
30:16
So you're in different worlds.
30:18
So you had to really defend yourself.
30:20
Yes!
30:21
And I was the middle so I had a younger sibling who was four so she's in another world.
30:26
And then the older one wasn't in the same school, so she was in high school.
30:31
So I was on my own.
30:33
And then so yeah, I was getting in fights, you know, with kids two, three times my size.
30:41
And I would come home and Marissa got in a fight again.
30:45
What's your mom saying when you're coming home?
30:48
She encouraged me to defend myself.
30:50
She was a West African mom through and through with that sense of like, oh, if anybody's gonna pick on my kid, if they push you, push back.
30:59
Yes.
30:59
Don't be the one to start the fight, but finish it.
31:01
I had this boy once, he was poking me in the gap of the chair with a pencil, but like aggressively, like a little cute poke, like really poke.
31:09
And I remember I went and I told my dad, and he said, you take that pencil and you jam it so hard in him that he will never
31:17
stab you again with the pencil.
31:18
And again, a British perspective, they might be like, oh my gosh, no, that's so uncouth and so vulgar and aggressive behavior.
31:28
And I believe in it.
31:29
Yeah.
31:30
I genuinely believe, like your mom said, you don't start things.
31:33
And even with my children now, so they're five,
31:37
And I'm not joking.
31:38
Every time we go to like a playground or something, someone does something, someone snatches something, someone pushes them.
31:45
And I was saying to my sister, we're now getting to an age where we need to start explaining, you know, the difference.
31:51
Whereas before I would make excuses for the child's behavior, but you know, maybe they didn't understand blah, blah.
31:57
And now I'm like, I'm done making excuses because ultimately there's a very fine line between
32:03
constantly, you know, being the kind one.
32:05
Right.
32:06
And then just being taken advantage of.
32:07
Exactly.
32:08
And we're not going to do the latter.
32:10
So, yeah.
32:11
Yeah.
32:11
I'm with you on the child thing.
32:13
School can just be a cruel place.
32:14
It can be very cruel.
32:16
It can be very cruel.
32:17
And it's this character test, right?
32:19
And what are you going to do?
32:20
Are you going to sink or are you going to swim?
32:22
Like, what's going to happen?
32:24
And so, and everybody's watching because the kids are gathering around.
32:29
And somebody's calling you names.
32:30
And, you know,
32:31
And then getting aggressive, getting in your face.
32:34
And then they throw the first push.
32:36
What am I going to do?
32:37
Just sit there and be pushed around in front of a crowd?
32:40
No, I have to push back.
32:43
And then it's a fight, fight, fight, fight, fight.
32:45
And then the teacher's assistant will take forever before they show up and break the fight.
32:51
And I'm like, really?
32:53
Did you show up now?
32:54
Do you think that high school experience also helped galvanize these thoughts that you were always going to return to the continent?
33:03
So that happened my first year.
33:04
So that's this elementary school kid.
33:06
Okay.
33:06
Yeah.
33:06
No, my high school, I, you know, I had to.
33:09
No, we weren't fighting anymore.
33:10
Right.
33:11
You know, and, you know, in high school, I'd find my way and my people and whatnot.
33:17
But I was doing the presentations.
33:18
Right.
33:19
But yes, as early as high school, I was saying out loud to my peers that, oh, this isn't all that like I'm going to go back one day.
33:29
And so even when, you know, we'll get to this, but when it was I had made the move and
33:36
it was on social media that I moved to Cape Town.
33:40
Somebody that I hadn't spoken to in years, like DeAndre from high school, was like, you always said, you always said you would.
33:47
I'm so happy for you.
33:50
Did your
33:51
friends and family believe you and the reason I ask is because my dad always said I was going to grow out of Jamaica so although I went to school elsewhere I was also like I'm coming home I'm coming home and he was like yeah you said that no but you know the more of the world you see the more you experience he never believed that I would always have this deep thirst and love for Jamaica and I just wonder if you're in a circle did they they believe you
34:16
The one person that believed me was my grandmother, who is late now.
34:21
She passed away last year at 98.
34:26
So it's my girl.
34:27
She's still with me, though.
34:29
But she believed me because I started making the trips.
34:34
And really, I think, and at one point she was like, oh, this one, she's going to be back.
34:40
And then even when I think I did a trip to Sierra Leone and Ghana, like I was kind of between those two countries.
34:48
Even family friends there were like, yeah, you'll see Marissa again.
34:52
Okay.
34:53
This is the one that you will see.
34:54
Okay.
34:55
like in the land.
34:56
The other ones they might visit, but this is the one that's going to put down roots.
35:00
Take me to the decision that you finally say, I'm leaving, I'm leaving the States.
35:08
I think it was, we'd all kind of come out of this pandemic.
35:13
Okay.
35:13
Right.
35:14
And that's the thing about COVID.
35:17
I think one of the blessings in disguise that it brought was the pause in all of our lives.
35:23
Like we couldn't just keep going, going, going, even in a place that's super like capitalism on steroids is what I call the U S right.
35:32
And especially depending on where you live in the U.S., you'll experience more of the intensity of capitalism.
35:38
And so I lived at that point in the Washington, D.C. metro area.
35:43
OK.
35:43
Right.
35:44
So that's, you know.
35:46
the capital and the intensity is intense.
35:50
So for me, the pandemic had given me that time to pause.
35:55
I'd already been making some major life decisions by that point.
36:01
You know, I ended, you know, my marriage to my daughter's father and,
36:07
And that was obviously huge, but it was kind of, I think, beginning of 2022.
36:13
I was kind of dating again a little bit, and I thought to myself, the thought came from
36:25
slow down.
36:26
You just got yourself free.
36:28
You can't, you don't want to date somebody in America and then be stuck in America because you're going to leave America.
36:35
And that was like the first time that the thought like really, really presented itself again.
36:41
And I, and I, I sat with it.
36:46
quietly sat with it, wrestled with it, sat with it.
36:49
And then eventually I started talking about it to a close friend at the time.
36:54
And she said to me, this is a really big decision.
36:58
I said, I want to go back to Africa.
36:59
I don't know where.
37:00
I know I can't go directly to Sierra Leone.
37:02
Like, I need a soft landing.
37:04
Okay.
37:05
Like, if I'm going to transition out of America, like, it needs to be, like, a soft landing.
37:10
And she said, well...
37:13
Yeah, you can come up with your list of countries and whatnot, but this is a big decision.
37:19
You're going to need some intel that your logic can't give you.
37:22
And I was like, okay, what do you mean?
37:24
She's like, you need to do some...
37:27
something called locational astrology astro cartography okay and I was like astro what was that it's like it's where an astrologer takes your birth chart and and and the birth chart of your child and figure out you know the ideal locations for you based on what you're looking for in a place and I said
37:52
Lord, okay, that's a thing.
37:53
She's like, yes, yes.
37:55
And then she explained her own experience having done an astro-cartography.
37:59
And she was somebody that was well-versed in astrology at the time.
38:03
And she would always kind of bring it up in conversations.
38:05
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
38:06
You know, I was just kind of just casually listening.
38:10
But...
38:11
I was like, well, you know what?
38:12
It is a big decision.
38:13
You're right.
38:15
And I have struggled with feeling settled in locations that I've lived in.
38:20
And so that kind of resonated with me that there could be this concept of there could be a part of the world, a place, a city where based on work,
38:30
the time of the day that you were born, the location that you were born, what the planets were doing at that time that you could just be more aligned with.
38:41
And there could be places that could be to your detriment.
38:44
Okay.
38:45
And I...
38:46
that resonated with me because I had experienced places that felt to my detriment in things that were really important to me.
38:53
So I was open because I was in this place of trying to make this big decision.
38:59
Um, I was open to kind of going about it a different way.
39:03
And for me, the astro cartography was a different way.
39:07
So when you say soft landing, what does that mean?
39:12
Soft landing means that the transition is smooth.
39:16
Okay.
39:17
It means that there's some familiarity with the systems.
39:21
And you don't think Sierra Leone would have given that?
39:23
No.
39:23
Why?
39:24
It wouldn't have given me that in terms of infrastructure.
39:27
It wouldn't have given me that in terms of systems.
39:30
For example, when we talk about housing, there are lots of West African countries where they want you to pay a year upfront.
39:40
So that's a difference in system.
39:42
And in America, I'm used to monthly, and you put a deposit, and then you sign a 12-month lease.
39:49
So I needed something that was similar.
39:51
And then in terms of transport, in terms of getting around from point A to point B, I didn't want to drive.
39:56
So I was like, where can I, where will transportation be affordable for me?
40:02
So those were the things that kind of made me be open to like, yes, this is my preference.
40:08
Like I would prefer this region of Africa, but I also know the reality of my lived experience.
40:17
So I'm open to...
40:19
to another way.
40:20
So you go to an astrologer and you have your details in terms of birth, but you also said that you share the things that you're looking for.
40:29
Yes.
40:29
Are these the things that you're sharing?
40:30
Transport, housing...
40:32
Anything else on the list?
40:33
Yeah, about 10 things or something like that, like community, friendship, education, career, you know, those types of things.
40:41
Where will I thrive?
40:43
And how do they use that information?
40:45
I'm very interested.
40:47
Yeah, I mean, okay, I'm telling you this as a student of astrology, certainly not as a teacher.
40:54
So, you know, I don't fully understand myself, but as a client, what I will get was, I didn't even know my birth time because when I was born, like we just didn't have that on the birth certificate.
41:06
So the astrologer that I worked with, shout out to Lauren in North Carolina, she was able to come up with an estimated birth time based on really key questions about my life.
41:20
And so, you know, and key dates.
41:23
that I knew that I could give her.
41:26
And then once you have that, the birth time, your birth date, your city and country, then you get something.
41:38
So then based on that, you know, now I know my placements and things of.
41:43
my astrological placements and things like that but the point is um you have your list of values that you're looking for in a place i wanted nature i wanted the sea because i was desperately missing the sea not to say that there wasn't an ocean um in the near the dv but it was far like you have to drive
42:03
hours to get to a beach.
42:04
And I was like, we don't do that.
42:06
We don't do that.
42:07
I need like 20 minutes or less.
42:10
So that wasn't, that wasn't the way for me.
42:12
But anyway, so I had my list of things that I really needed in a place and
42:18
And then, and of course, I had a child to factor and to make sure that she was also going to feel supported in a location.
42:28
And so she, we had a birth time for her because she was born in the U.S. That was easy.
42:32
Sure.
42:33
And so that, so then she creates like a chart with a.
42:39
Numeric breakdown, like a range, like a score range of this is how high this ranks for this location for you based on your birth chart.
42:50
So this is this is your friendship score, for example.
42:53
This is your career and connection score and education score.
42:58
This is your excitement score.
43:01
You know, what else?
43:04
This is your, like, you know, love and romance score.
43:08
Yeah, girl.
43:08
I need that score, babes.
43:11
They don't miss.
43:13
So it was all of that.
43:14
And, yeah.
43:17
And so then she did the breakdown of the scores.
43:21
And then she has the scores for my child.
43:23
So you can do that for your family, like, who you're traveling with.
43:27
And then she does a blended score.
43:29
And so based on our individual scores and then our blended scores, we are able to see top five locations.
43:38
Do you remember what your top five were?
43:43
Yes.
43:43
I mean, this thing was part of a big life change for me.
43:47
Number five was...
43:50
this like region in Haiti.
43:52
Oh, really?
43:53
I know.
43:54
But it was the interesting thing is it's also mountainous.
43:57
Okay.
43:58
And yeah.
43:59
So I was like, yeah, that makes sense.
44:01
It was this region in Haiti.
44:03
And I was like, and I do vibe with Haitians.
44:05
Like, especially when I lived in the D.C.
44:06
I was like, I do.
44:08
So I was like, that makes sense.
44:10
So there was a region that was number five.
44:12
And then number four, everything else was on the continent.
44:15
Number four was Aranjumund, Namibia.
44:20
Okay.
44:21
Number three was Vindhok, Namibia.
44:25
Oh.
44:26
Number two was Addis, Ethiopia, Addis Ababa.
44:30
And number one was Cape Town.
44:32
Okay.
44:33
Yeah.
44:33
And did you pick Cape Town because it was number one?
44:36
Yeah, it had the astrologer's seal of approval.
44:39
So that was it.
44:41
Had you been here before?
44:43
No.
44:44
Before you moved, you hadn't come?
44:45
Okay, I came to visit.
44:46
I did a visit based on the astrology.
44:48
Okay, so after you get this report.
44:50
Yes, so that was one of the first things I did.
44:52
You came to see.
44:53
Yes, I came to check out.
44:54
I did an exploratory visit in 2022.
44:57
When she gives you this top five, are you believing her?
45:01
I...
45:04
When I got it, I was shocked.
45:06
Why?
45:06
I didn't receive it very well.
45:08
Let me be honest.
45:09
I was shocked.
45:11
And I was mad because it didn't have any area that I had logically thought.
45:16
And what were the areas that you were thinking?
45:19
Kigali, Rwanda, because I've always had this fascination with Rwanda.
45:23
It's a cleanest city, and da-da-da.
45:25
And they also had a war, but they have gone a very different direction.
45:28
So I've always been fascinated with Rwanda.
45:33
Dakar.
45:34
So I was like, okay, we could do West but like a different, you know, they're doing their thing.
45:39
It's a nice vibes.
45:40
Yeah.
45:41
Yeah, so you get this issue like babes you haven't chosen any of the things that I had in my mind Nothing, so I had to sit with I and I and I grieved I was really like
45:55
And so I called, and so my friend who had, you know, referred and recommended this at the time, she said, are you okay?
46:03
Like, did you get your Astro-Gardis?
46:06
It's a lot.
46:07
It was heavy.
46:08
I was like, it's a lot.
46:10
And she said some things.
46:12
What makes it resonate eventually is she tells you about the experience you're having in your current location.
46:18
Okay.
46:19
So you can check everything.
46:21
Yeah.
46:21
Because it's your lived experience.
46:22
Again, that's why I resonated a lot with it.
46:25
It's like...
46:26
Oh, she was just like, so she gives you the scores for your current place, your current city, which she did for me.
46:32
I was in Fairfax, Virginia at the time.
46:36
So it was great.
46:37
There were great scores for certain things, which I resonated education, career and, you know, all of that.
46:45
And but and but she also saw immediately why I wanted to leave.
46:52
My love and romance score.
46:54
Zero.
46:55
Literally?
46:56
Zero.
46:57
Oh, Lord.
46:57
Uh-huh.
46:58
And I said, oh, that makes perfect sense.
47:00
I was like that makes sense.
47:01
You're like, I could have told you that makes sense.
47:02
I could have, right.
47:03
But so this is what I mean.
47:05
It was like, how do you pick that up?
47:07
She doesn't know me.
47:08
We're not friends.
47:09
She hasn't even heard my voice.
47:11
Like she hadn't even seen my face.
47:13
Like, because this was a remote thing.
47:15
It was just like maybe, yeah, she'd seen a picture of me.
47:18
Never mind.
47:19
She did that.
47:19
But.
47:21
Other than that, she didn't know my voice, but she could tell me what my voice sounded like based on the astrology.
47:27
And then just pictures and things of that nature.
47:30
But so, yeah, everything was spot on about my current situation and why I would want to leave.
47:38
And I was like, okay.
47:41
And then, so when it came to the recommendation.
47:44
And I was kind of talking to my friend with my friend about she's like, well, you did say you wanted a softer landing.
47:49
And you have to remember that it is just you and your daughter.
47:52
So the family dynamic has changed.
47:54
It's not like there's this other person there and then that changes the astrology.
47:59
Right.
48:00
It's you.
48:01
So you're the forefront of this.
48:03
And and if you're thinking that way.
48:06
This is how it checks out.
48:08
And now obviously it could be subject to change over time, you know, but at that moment in time, this is what, this is where it's landing.
48:18
And I was just like, so I had to sit with it because I, it wasn't what I expected.
48:22
Right.
48:23
When you come to Cape Town, you're now looking at it from the perspective of, okay, the astrologer has told me this is where I should be.
48:30
Can I really live here?
48:31
Yeah.
48:32
How long is that trip?
48:33
Two weeks.
48:34
Oh, babe, shut up.
48:36
It's two weeks.
48:37
Have you come by yourself?
48:38
No, I came with my daughter.
48:39
Okay, so you both are here.
48:41
Are you going to any of the other locations?
48:43
Or you're just, okay.
48:45
I'm just coming here because we're looking at the scores.
48:48
I've already assessed the scores and there are reasons why those locations landed where they did.
48:53
So it didn't make sense for me to consider my number four or my number three.
48:58
Because they were heavily on certain areas that I appreciated.
49:03
But I was missing certain things like, you know, the sea part was a big deal for me.
49:08
Right.
49:08
So that kind of eliminated.
49:11
You know, it's like, why am I going to go somewhere else that I'm not going to have immediate access to the ocean?
49:16
Did you have particular expectations for Cape Town before you arrived?
49:19
Of course.
49:20
What were you expecting?
49:21
It was based on the astrology.
49:22
Okay.
49:23
So she's told you.
49:23
Yes.
49:24
What to expect.
49:26
And has it matched?
49:28
When I came to visit.
49:29
Okay.
49:30
Like,
49:32
Because she gives you an audio, and so I've listened to it so many times.
49:35
I had to listen to it so many times to kind of be brave enough, right, to be like, you're going to go somewhere you don't know anybody, or you're going to figure this thing out, and then you potentially might move there.
49:47
So I had to listen to that a lot.
49:49
And I did some other things.
49:50
I did some other research.
49:52
I joined some, you know, black women groups.
49:57
leaving us groups, you know, so I did foster community to help me take the leap.
50:04
But yeah, I expected Cape Town to feel warm and friendly.
50:08
I expected to feel welcomed.
50:11
I expected to feel, um, just refreshed and not burdened the same way I felt in my, my present, my location at the time.
50:21
Um, I expected that ease of connection, which,
50:26
All of those things checked out.
50:29
So there are things, of course, I wouldn't know until you actually live here.
50:33
Like, how is your career really going to do?
50:36
I don't know.
50:37
What is your career?
50:38
Exactly.
50:40
So I am an international education consultant.
50:43
So and also...
50:46
also kind of took in the tourism consulting piece as well.
50:50
When people say consulting, I never really understand what this means.
50:55
And then you added education.
50:56
I'm like, so what are we doing with people?
50:59
How are we servicing our clients?
51:02
So people come to me when they need support with expanding their options.
51:08
So if they want to consider an international education or I had students and families I worked with that were in the U.S. because I was a former teacher in the U.S.
51:18
So and I also used to do college admissions consulting on the side as well.
51:23
So that was something I always did.
51:25
And I transitioned into kind of having my own thing because I had to work with other people's companies.
51:31
prior to.
51:33
So that support because the US college education system can be a bit of a landmine and navigating it you need to have the know-how and be savvy about the yays and the nays.
51:46
It's definitely a business of its own.
51:47
It's a business of its own.
51:48
When I was applying to the states I was shocked how many schools you guys applied to.
51:53
Yes.
51:53
Just scale.
51:54
I was just like, this is like, really, you're going to send off 12 applications.
51:58
And then I had a, I guess you'd call her a consultant.
52:01
And the lady was like, yeah, that's the process.
52:04
And you're going to write essays and you're going to write about yourself.
52:07
And how do you do that and be authentic and telling your story and the right things and everything.
52:12
Make sure that you are standing out from the sea of applicants, depending on what schools you were interested in.
52:18
And making sure that that list was a reflection of you.
52:22
Or the you that you are aspiring to be.
52:27
So, yeah, it's quite tricky to navigate.
52:31
And were you already doing this before you moved?
52:34
I was.
52:34
I was...
52:37
I was working at a private school and part of the lift, especially as an English teacher, is supporting students when it came time.
52:45
So that was kind of the extra thing that they put on you that they didn't really pay for.
52:49
So I was also doing it in that capacity, but even prior to that, I also used to do it with private companies as well and support them.
52:59
So that was something.
53:00
And so you were doing this still remotely.
53:03
You could basically help any family anywhere.
53:05
Yes, that was one of the things about COVID that unlocked, that COVID unlocked for me.
53:10
I realized, oh, I'm really good at connecting with people remotely.
53:15
Like we don't have to be in the same room because I had to teach English classes on Google Meets and Zooms.
53:24
So,
53:26
Yeah.
53:26
And I had to be engaging and I had students and they had to ask questions and we we had to foster conversation and really get to the heart of matters remotely.
53:36
So COVID really taught me that, oh, you're good at this.
53:40
And then that that gave me the confidence that I needed to say, OK, I could also establish my own thing remotely.
53:48
But you said that living here, you weren't going to know how that would affect your career.
53:53
No.
53:53
How has it affected your career?
53:56
It's evolved.
53:57
Okay, it's evolved.
53:58
I mean, I used to just work with American families.
54:02
Now I work with South African families.
54:06
I work with families that are in another country that I'm not in that I've never been to or maybe went to one time.
54:14
So it's become more international.
54:16
And so now there's the International Education Consultant.
54:19
And then we look at places outside of the U.S. and the U.K.
54:26
Sometimes a South African parent comes to me and says, well, my kid is an athlete and we're looking at this program in Turkey.
54:35
So it's evolved.
54:36
And there's this opportunity in Germany.
54:40
Okay, let's explore that.
54:43
So it's become more international.
54:45
That's not what I foresaw initially, but I've welcomed it.
54:50
And it's been this great challenge for me.
54:53
And then of course, the tourism piece has also been a way to still connect with folks in the U.S. that are interested in exploring South Africa, Cape Town, specifically Johannesburg,
55:05
and or other African countries that I don't necessarily have to be there, but have those connections.
55:12
So that's how it's evolved.
55:15
When you said that you were moving, as in to your friends, did they think that moving to Africa was going to be backwards, particularly for career?
55:22
Because you've expressed how there was an evolution that even yourself didn't see coming.
55:27
And sometimes I imagine, particularly from a capitalistic
55:31
environment where America is very much well sought after for so many people.
55:36
Did they have the impression that you were going to be taking steps back?
55:41
They, a lot of them were shocked.
55:43
So again, shocked that I had made this decision and even the few, so I didn't even really share the astrology piece with a lot of people.
55:52
I only shared that piece with, you know, the inner circle and even they, a lot of them within the inner circle, didn't know what to make of it.
56:01
Right.
56:01
Would they have received the news better minus the astrology?
56:06
If you had just said, oh, I've decided to move to Cape Town, not because somebody read my chart and told me to go.
56:12
Well, again, I didn't tell a lot of people that part.
56:14
Okay, cool.
56:17
So they were receiving for the most part the news without the astrology.
56:21
Without the astrology.
56:21
Because they're like, who do you know there?
56:23
Because the only acceptable way to move as a woman is if a job is sending you there or if you're following a spouse.
56:33
Okay.
56:34
Those are the two acceptable ways to do that.
56:38
You don't do that as a self-employed person.
56:42
and then you're a woman, and then you're a single mom?
56:46
Like, where do they do that at?
56:50
So, yeah.
56:51
That's funny.
56:52
Can I ask, actually, you said that you grew up with strong sense of education being really prioritized, and also the church.
57:00
Yes.
57:00
How does the church and astrology work?
57:07
That, well,
57:10
The type of church that I grew up in, it wouldn't work.
57:14
Okay.
57:15
That's a short answer.
57:18
They don't go together.
57:18
The type of church environment that I grew up in was Pentecostal, charismatic, speaking in tongues, the drama.
57:28
Yeah.
57:28
the pomp and the circumstance.
57:30
That's what I grew up on.
57:32
And it's so interesting because there's a different variation depending on where you live and what cultural context you're in.
57:40
And it was great to experience the various levels of that.
57:44
The Sierra Leone version of being captured and caught in the spirit to the Pentecostal, Orange County, like,
57:56
it's you know it's yeah it's a white pastor but like they're they're charismatic they have the same soul yeah it's it's a different vibes okay but but they're still doing the thing is the music
58:08
You know what they do?
58:09
This is where the diversity comes in.
58:10
Okay.
58:11
They know how to find, suddenly there's a black person at the organ.
58:15
Suddenly there's like, they're gonna find that person and they're right there in the choir.
58:21
So they know how to- Bring the vibe.
58:23
Yes, when it's time.
58:24
To this day, if you look at the mega churches, even the ones that are in really like predominantly white spaces, the music department,
58:34
They have to step it up.
58:35
Right.
58:36
That's how they do it.
58:37
So, yeah, the 90s was no.
58:39
Yeah, that was also because that was part of the wave of the prosperity gospel.
58:43
And this is what God is doing in your life.
58:45
So there had to be pomp and circumstance, entertainment.
58:49
Church was definitely part of that.
58:52
So, no, you couldn't mix, you know, and everything was strictly like the Bible is infallible.
58:58
Okay.
58:58
This is the word of God.
59:01
So if you're talking about having any other insight about your life and the direction of your life, and it has not come from the word and it has not come from the man of God or the woman of God, maybe.
59:15
That's not right.
59:17
That's a no.
59:18
That's a no.
59:19
So when you are at the point where you're meeting with your astrologer, where are you spiritually?
59:25
Great question.
59:27
I think 2020 was...
59:29
I would say a spiritual awakening time for me.
59:32
So that was when, you know, I'd struggled.
59:35
There'd been moments in my life before that, obviously, where I struggled with the church settings that I was brought up in and kind of continued to connect with as an adult because the benefits were, it was community.
59:51
I could go anywhere and just plug in.
59:55
And that was great, you know?
59:57
Even in Orange County, that was one of the ways that I started to feel settled was church community outside of the school.
1:00:05
And then still having, as I'm building my friendships in school, still like the church kind of grounded me.
1:00:13
Yeah.
1:00:14
And away from like the home and I could just have my own thing.
1:00:18
So that was really nice.
1:00:20
And then as an adult, young adult moving forward.
1:00:23
uh, to college and other cities on my own.
1:00:25
Um, I could just be like, okay, I got to find a church home.
1:00:29
So that was what it was that convenient way of plugging in, but it came with its challenges and it came with its questions.
1:00:38
And when I was asking questions and I wasn't getting the answers that, um,
1:00:45
that would satisfy those questions, then it was, what are you gonna do?
1:00:49
You either stop asking the questions or you just accept the mystery of God, as they would say, or you just kind of put it in a box and hide it.
1:01:02
And I think I put those questions in a box because I wanted to remain- A part of the community.
1:01:07
Yeah.
1:01:08
Was something particular triggering these questions?
1:01:12
Oh yeah, oh yeah.
1:01:14
Yeah.
1:01:15
I mean, growing up in like the prosperity gospel age, it's like if your life, you know, the things that you have are supposed to be physical manifestations that God is working in your life.
1:01:26
Right.
1:01:27
So if you don't have that, like the new car.
1:01:31
If you didn't have the job that you wanted, if you didn't get it, if they didn't choose you above all the other applicants.
1:01:39
Or as a student, if I didn't get into my dream school at the time, which that was one of my moments where I was like... What was your dream school?
1:01:46
At the time, it was Stanford.
1:01:48
Okay.
1:01:48
I mean, good choice.
1:01:50
Like everybody's not getting into Stanford.