Latest / Hustle Rebels: Burnout Recovery for Over-Achievers / Why Success Still Feels Empty: Women, Burnout and Self-Worth with Roberta Ravella

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Why Success Still Feels Empty: Women, Burnout and Self-Worth with Roberta Ravella · Hustle Rebels: Burnout Recovery for Over-Achievers

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: What do you tell women that they feel like the grind is the only thing between her and her failure?
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Get comfortable with failure.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it goes back to unfortunately, for women, I think we are taught that our worthiness is so outside of us.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Our worthiness is based on who accepts us, and that's based on how we look, how we take care of them, how we make them feel.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so for a lot of women, that is the scary thing.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: This is Hustle Rebels, the podcast for people who still want to win but are starting to question the cost.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Renee, your host and burnout recovery expert.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: I help overachievers get out from under-the-grind culture, stop sacrificing themselves to a system that literally never gives back, and actually live a life that they worked so hard for, like they deserve.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Before retirement takes their decrepit body.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to Hustle Rebels.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: This is the toolbox, the episodes where I bring you someone I've personally vetted with a tool that you can actually use to untangle yourself from the hustle culture.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: And today's guest is someone who decided that success doesn't have to be earned through suffering and built her whole body of work around proving it.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: Roberta Ravella is a speaker, author, podcast host, and founder of the Joy Experiment, a framework designed to help women align their energy, values, and business growth without sacrificing themselves in the process.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_00: She hosts the Joy Experiment podcast, and today she's opening up her signature tool for us, the Ease and Flow Framework, a way to identify the beliefs, emotional habits, and stories that keep you grinding and release them so that you can finally see what's actually possible for you.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So if you've ever caught yourself thinking, I can't want that, I haven't earned it yet, this one is for you.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, Roberta, welcome to the toolbox.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for having me.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love to just hear more about you, where you're coming from, and then just a little bit more about yourself from your own words.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I originally heavily bought into proving and earning everything.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a cultural meta-narrative.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was certainly a narrative in my family, in their religion that I was brought up in, in the American South, all the places, right?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: Especially for women going into industries and places where men are dominant.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what I did.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: And along the way, I found myself doing a lot of things I really hated, forcing myself to do things, numbing quite often, and optimizing only for my income.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then at some point, I was like, what am I doing?
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I uh I literally did all the things.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I did it on my own, moved away from where I grew up to a bigger city, and you know, bought my own home, made all my own income, my own career.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I should have built this a different way.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: I got married around that time, and my husband was transferred.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I was able to start my career over.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was in sales and mortgage sales.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And also for the first time since I was probably 16, someone else could support me if needed.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: That was nice.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I rebuilt a business in the same fashion as I built the other one.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: Then we moved.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, he retired, we moved to Florida.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: I started a marketing business around that time.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I just thought to myself, you know, I know I'll feel a lot better because now I'm not the only one.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's not so much pressure.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have to perform.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm out of the hustle grind culture.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I still felt like shit.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what's wrong here?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not ungrateful.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: I love my husband.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's a great person.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: We have a great relationship.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: This doesn't make any sense to me.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I did the whole gamut, one into the other.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: And what I found was I was looking for my love and belonging and my worthiness outside of myself.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And there is no amount of hustle, grind, proving having someone else to take care of you.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, list all the millions of things until you settle that.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is hard and it doesn't make any sense until you do.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: So once I settled that, I will say the question of my life became instead of am I enough?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Which is a question that I had asked myself in 2008 when I was single and the mortgage business had crashed.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: Am I enough without a six-figure income and a power relationship and all the things that I had wanted?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: That question went from am I enough to how do I want to experience my life?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how the joy experiment was born, because that is how I want to experience my life.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Enjoy creating ease and flow, the fun I'm having meeting other women who are doing the same things and all kinds of different industries and spaces.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that at the end of the day, we have optimized for the wrong thing.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: And we're finding ourselves with no joy in our lives, no matter how much money or relationship or achievement that we have.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so I set out with the podcast to show other women that are doing that and are very successful financially.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's also a misnomer if you create joy and you put yourself first that you're going to be broke, or it's just going to be average, that there's no way to be super successful.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have to, you have to grind it out.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: You have to suffer first and then, and you know, everything's when you do this, then you can have that.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: You don't create a happy outcome from an unhappy place, right?
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so in doing so, I'm meeting all these women who are doing all kinds of different work, who are very successful and are creating with joy as their optimization.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: I can really, in so many ways with so many things that you just said, starting from that masculine energy of hustle and grinding surrounded by male-dominated culture, and then you know, that suffering that you need to, that everything needs to be hard.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like I just mentioned this on another podcast with another couple of women that I did not too long ago, how I had said that I feel like uh a deep identity that I'm working through is that life just has to be hard.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_00: And realizing when someone had told me, but does it though?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Like, does it have to be hard?
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: No, there's a more sustainable way of success that we don't have to drive ourselves to the ground.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: And things can come easily, but it's interesting how we have had that idea of suffering.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like we wear it like a badge of honor.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, well, I did suffer, therefore I do earn something, you know.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: So now you deserve it.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: What is that misalignment that you think that we have in that mindset?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it comes from a couple of things.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, if you look at the history of the United States in general and where we all immigrated from and at the times that the country was formed and the narrative of this country, right?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: You're looking at Victorianism, you're looking at different types of religions, and you're also looking at people who needed other people to do things for them that sucked.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_01: True.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so, and so put it all together, right?
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like a lot of it, I'll just say from my standpoint, how I was raised, right?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: It was raised in the south um by very religious people, one of whom was raised in Canada by immigrants.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: So that was a very um work-oriented and eek.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they were eking out of their existence literally on the Canadian prairie.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: So then, you know, you you move into where we are now, and in the society we live in now, it's still carried over this whole idea that you have to earn everything to deserve it, that you're not a good person, basically.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: You're out there proving that you're a good person.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: You're out there proving that someone should help you eat, buy a home, feed your family, whatever.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: We're pitting each other against each other.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: This person's taking it from me.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't deserve it, I deserved it.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's a culture based in lack and what you don't have.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think some of that is has morphed into extreme as we um are so materialistic.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like if there's nothing wrong with you, Renee, then you're not gonna buy my product, right?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: If I can't tell you all the 12 things that are wrong with your hair that I can fix with this product, right?
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Then what am I supposed to do?
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: If we as women liked our bodies, the economy would crash.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it goes into some of that too.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's like just this this soup, this stew of you know, Victorianism, of religious backgrounds, of industrialization, where they literally, really wealthy people needed people who didn't have very much money to do stuff that was kind of gross, was awful, that was unhealthy, they could die from it, and they were paying them very much.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not to say I don't believe in wealth.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: I do very much, but I think once you put all that together, and then you have women entering a workforce where they really didn't want us, and they were like, okay, if you're gonna be here, you need to be a man, you need to prove it to the boys, you and you need to be perfect at it all the way up to now.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's just how we how we got here.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think about when I was in the fire department, it's funny because when there was like a Tony or a guy that got on the fire department, they just started letting themselves go.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: That was like the big joke that once you made it on there, it didn't really matter because you couldn't really get fired, right?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: But that was not the case for if I got on there, because if I started to let myself go, that would be a totally different story.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like if I started to gain weight or if I couldn't lift as much as I was able to do before, if I couldn't keep up with the guys, it would be a different story.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: So it's interesting how you do have to be pitted against certain things.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it does come with the territory, especially in a job where I had come from, but at the same time, you do still inherit those conditionings and those beliefs that you have to work pretty much harder than anyone else in that field.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then it just like becomes your identity that you have to suffer in order to succeed.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just so interesting.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: And then when it comes to two, you have all of us who are these overachievers and high performers who are proud of how hard we work and then terrified if we stop.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So then you get like the conundrum of us being unable to rest, right?
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: You had mentioned that you seemed to have this life that you thought you were working towards, and you were still had this unsettled unhappiness.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like I can really resonate with that too.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: What do you tell women that they feel like the grind is the only thing between her and her failure?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Get comfortable with failure.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it goes back to unfortunately for women, I think we are taught that our worthiness is so outside of us.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: Our worthiness is based on who accepts us, and that's based on how we look, how we take care of them, how we make them feel.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so for a lot of women, that is a scary thing.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: Who am I if not?
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you want to be ambitious and have all this career, plus, you need to look a certain way, plus, you need to make everyone feel a certain way.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: All these things are our responsibilities.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of the day, if you take your worthiness back, start there, your worthiness back, then we go to love and belonging, then we go to safety, and then we can go to agency.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: Take those things back, then you're coming from an entirely different place where that failure isn't a big deal, and you're also able to just tell people to that they're allowed to think what they want to think.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Blah blah.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say that, but I wasn't sure.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: You could totally say that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I say it all the time, and not in a in a way, you know.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I love the book The Let Them Theory.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think it got a little bit of a bad rap, but not in a way of like you don't care about anyone, but we're so busy managing everyone else's emotions while we're trying to be successful at the same freaking time.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no wonder it's always hard.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I know, and that's the hardest thing, you know.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: The invisible labor, I feel like that is the it's not just the household chores, you know, it's not just the mother who's home and doing all this invisible labor that's not being thanked for.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's I feel like as women, we are so trained to harness the emotions of everyone around us and then be like people pleasing in our nature because we are nurturers and we are caregivers in so many ways, and it transforms in just every relationship I feel like that we have, whether it's our boss or whether it's employees or whether it's people that we work with or our family members, it doesn't matter.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're constantly bearing the emotions.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like not necessarily tiptoeing, but it is kind of like, all right, how am I cultivating this and how am I cultivating that?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and it is that emotional labor that's wearing down.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I talk a lot about how burnout isn't just these massive incidences, it's stuff like that, carrying the emotion of the people at work, carrying the emotion of your family at home.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's very difficult for a ton of reasons.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because you can't.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we can pretend to, it may it might last for a minute, but I cannot make you happy.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot make you like yourself, I cannot make you unangry at your parents, I can't make you uh want to, you know what I'm saying?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like we can influence each other, but it's interesting.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: Over the last few months, I've made a conscious choice not to handle someone else's emotions.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of what happens to women as well is we're taught that's the way we relate to each other.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: You notice a lot of women are taught that how you talk to each other is complaining.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Or venting, or I need you to feel what I'm feeling.
• 14:20
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not the same as having empathy or compassion for someone.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: I can see that you're upset, that you're angry, or that you are trying to process something without having to take it on myself or even having to agree with you, or have to listen to all the reasons why you feel the way you feel.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: But we are taught to carry each other's emotions is to be a good friend.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: When often what it really is, is your like I can't carry your emotions for you.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: I can't feel your feelings for you.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I can be there to comfort you or have compassion for you or empathy or whatever.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: But you need to feel your feelings.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: And we're told, if not shown in every reality TV show, that if you don't do that for me as a friend, then you're a bad friend, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm gonna go and bitch about it with another friend and say bad things about Roberta, you know, because then it's just like it's such an interesting conundrum.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it is what I mean.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about this, it's something interesting that I learned that you you and I as humans, we feel our feelings for about 90 seconds.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Anything after that is a repeat, which then becomes a story.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you and I get into this thing where you're like, I can't believe, you know, Johnny's not in trouble with the fire department, he's gained 90 pounds this year.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's frustrating.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's like what the and so you process your emotion of, okay, this isn't fair.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: I can either deal with it or whatever I want to do.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: And and I just like to say for one minute that I don't like this.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I can say to you, you know what, Renee, I understand.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or we can talk about it for six months and you can feel that emotion over and over.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: And it gets worse and worse.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing's gonna change.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, and then you know what?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Life is hard, and working at the fire department is hard.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's one thing I actually really appreciate with this one friendship that I do have, where if we are complaining in some way, it's so great to have a friendship where they each other, her and I, will reframe it in a way.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: We give this space to grieve about whatever it is, but then we also remind each other of either growing or the good things of whatever's happening, you know, like not sitting in that space of negativity because it does drag you down and it brings you into this whole space.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like if, you know, if she's talking about her husband in a negative manner, I'm not gonna just go and blast her husband with her because what is that gonna do?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's gonna go kiss herself off and just like ruin the rest of her day of whatever might be happening when in reality he's a really good dude and whatever just happened is something that transpired between them, you know.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just really interesting.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: But speaking of all this negativity, but then joy and ease and flow, I would love to open up the floor for you to talk about the toolbox opportunity and walk us through ease and flow framework.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, what is it and what does it actually do?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's a framework that I wrote to help you come out of hard or can't, or thinking that you've got limited possibility about whatever it is that you're desiring to do.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just say I can give you some examples from me, but why don't you give me an example of something that you're desiring to do at the moment?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything you can think of?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't matter how big or small.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I want to start a new cohort for my business.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: So is that something that involves sales and marketing?
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: What all does that involve?
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it would involve sales and marketing and getting new clients that could be from a cold market.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: So what would that look like to you if it was easy?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: And say anything you want, like they would just appear at your front doorstep with a check, right?
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Checks anymore, they would DM you, they would Venmo you, whatever.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: However ridiculous or it would be like a magnet where the universe just attracted clients to me and they were just DMing me, wanting to just jump into the cohort, and I would have to turn people away because there would be too many.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, that's awesome.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: As you say that, what in your mind comes up and says, Renee, that's not possible, or Renee, that's too hard, or Renee, you're being ridiculous.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: What are the things that go through your mind when you say that's what you want?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_00: It brings back to things that we had talked about before we started talking was about social media and how social media is hard and not having a presence and not being able to post often and not having that magnetism of influence on social media.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_01: So is any of that, if you look at it, not necessarily true?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: I would say that some of it isn't true.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I would say that it's also not necessary.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's it's not true because social media isn't necessary.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's not necessary, we can just take that off the board.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when I'm doing this with you normally, we'd either be writing on a whiteboard or you'd be writing this down on paper.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you could, if it's easy and people are just coming to you and they're just attracted to you, you can mark social media off in whichever way you want to.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe that's you think you have to post on 10 different social medias when really you like YouTube and you're just gonna YouTube.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you mark all the rest of them off out now.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Anything be still telling you, is there anything nagging you saying that that isn't possible?
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you good with that?
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think all in all, I would probably be down to the point of like core programming of are people going to want this?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Is my worth tied to it?
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that's deeper issues.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it can be.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: So some of these things can be just habits.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we just say something's hard because it's a habit.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes we go, well, I I'll say for me, I'll go, well, I hate technology.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's a habit.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: So if I take that off the board and say, okay, this would be easy for me and very believable and doable if this technology was doable, then I will say to myself, Well, who is this easy for?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: How can I make this easy for myself?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's a million ways, right, to do that.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: You could, for your social media, say, I'm gonna hire somebody to do this for me.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I don't have a lot of money to do this.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: So how do I do this inexpensively?
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: Is there an AI tool that I can use?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Go at it everywhere you can.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what you'll find is either if you won't let yourself solve it, then you need to go to the next layer.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if you won't let yourself solve that social media and your attraction process, go to the next, the deeper layer.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is that things don't work for me?
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_01: Do you really believe that things don't work for you?
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or is that something you tell yourself habitually?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you start to feel a strong emotion around that, that is a belief that you have.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Until you let go of that belief, it's going to be hard for you.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: So, what would it look like if it was easy?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because if it could be easy for me, I believe this can be easy for me.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you can't quite get there yet, you'll feel it somatically.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: You'll feel it in your body if your whole body's like, or your tummy or your throat.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: People feel that in different places.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just say you were feeling that in your tummy, this isn't easy for me.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And you're just like, oh.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you release that?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: This could be just a story that you've practiced, it could literally be trauma.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: If you're in trauma in that, there are therapies and modalities that you use to release trauma.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you are in just a belief that you really need to let go of, you can visualize out of it.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Or we also do something called a focus wheel that works really well.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: So let's just say that you have a belief that attracting people for social media.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Just doesn't work for you, it's not easy for you.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: People are not attracted to me.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: Are they attracted to anybody?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Could you say that?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Could you, in your mind, in your body, say there are some people this works for and be okay with it?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I could find proof that does happen for people.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, cool.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that people can attract people, clients into them that they really want to work with without using social media?
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: I do believe that.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever attracted a client to you without using social media?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: I have.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: Could you repeat that process?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I could.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: So do you think that you could attract clients to you without using social media that you don't want to use that really like you?
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: I could definitely do that.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: I could just X social media out.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: So if you can feel that release in your body when you get to that point, you'll know that you've released it out.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then we go to the next phase, which is possibility.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: So you can put back on the table for you that you can attract the clients that you desire without using methods you don't want to use.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love it too because it's just kind of like burning the rule book of just these conditionings that we've come to believe.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: We think that things have to be a certain way, but in reality, it might not be the way that I need to do something, you know, and it's all about the authenticity and alignment of our of ourselves.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that's the framework.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can see there how you can move through something is just a habit.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it's a habit for me.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I can't have a relationship with my best friend if I don't complain.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is this just a habit?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is that what you guys do?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can see, uh, I'll go back again with me in technology, just saying this doesn't work for me.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: All the way to having a full meltdown to nothing ever works for me, which was a core belief that I held.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to release it.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because if I believe nothing ever works for me, at the end of the day, nothing really is ever going to work for me the way that I want to, especially.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: So you can work yourself down.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: Habits, just release it.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: You'll you when it comes back up, I don't have that habit anymore, like you would if you know, we're trying to quit eating snacks after dinner, whatever, right?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: To believe beliefs you often have to release out of your body.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: You can also do that with meditating, um, with somatic therapies, or quite a few of those type of modalities, all the way down to where if you've got a really intense core belief, you're gonna you're probably gonna need to get help with that to release it.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but at least you know where you're at.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: One of the things I use is brain spotting, so it helps release the identities that are deep within as well.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: It helps get to that root issue of whatever people are dealing with.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not familiar with that.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'll I'll have to look into that.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, it's derived from EMDR.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: So instead of using the eye movement back and forth, you use one gaze spot, but it does connect somatically down into the deeper identities.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very cool.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Which you can do to get rid of core beliefs or things like that.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: I actually did a lot of visualization with someone to break that up.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, visualization is crazy.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: When I just listened to this, I just I love podcasts so much, but I listened to this one podcast where they were talking about how a lot of the times the visualizations that we're trying to you when we're using visualization, we use it to try to visualize something into manifestation instead of sitting in the practice of knowing that it already exists and visualizing something that is already present in the physical aspect that we just can't actually see right now, but visualizing it in the present and how much more that actually works because we believe in our being that it already exists.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: Which is part this third part of the tool is you move start moving things into possibility.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: If I believe this is possible for me, now I can start thinking about it in a way.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: I can start dreaming about this in a way.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: When I don't think it's possible, you're almost forcing yourself, and then you get the that's when you get the struggle and your body's working against you and your brain's working against you, and you're like, why isn't this working for me to be able to visualize something?
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't believe it's possible for you, it's gonna be difficult to have a good visualization practice around it.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm sure that you see a lot of emotional ties with this, especially with women.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the more deep-rooted beliefs and emotional habits that you see are holding a lot of these women back?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: What are some of the most common ones?
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the ones we've already talked about, I think are the are the the deepest that we're not worthy outside of what we've earned, that we have to prove that we're worthy, that we have to ask other people for our acceptance.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: That one hits hard.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I just did a lot of work around needing my husband to understand me.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: That one's very hard.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: That one's very hard.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's funny because we're kind of chalk and cheese, right?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like I did sales for 25 years.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: You say chalk and cheese.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry, go ahead.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's an English saying that I picked up for a long time ago that always made sense to me.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, he's an engineer, like we could have more opposite personalities as far as how we come at things.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it would frustrate me, or I would be, I would, why doesn't he understand?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally he's like, it's okay.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to understand you.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then it dawned on me, like, why am I even asking him to understand me?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like he doesn't care, like, I don't give a shit.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's just like, You're podcasting for business.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: He still doesn't think people make money on YouTube, you know?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why am I asking him to understand me?
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: No, but we do it often.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's one of the things that women get in this that push-pull with.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you don't have to understand me to empathize with me, to have compassion for me, or to love me.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Which is so interesting because one of the things that you have said is that for the women that are working for or with themselves, it's accepting real support.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's so hard for women to accept real support.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: So why do you think that's so hard to receive that support from the people that love us instead of?
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I find myself too just like pushing people away, but then at the same time, I'm also saying, I feel so misunderstood.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like, what do I want from people?
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why do you think people that women specifically who work for themselves act like that?
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's a safety issue a lot of times.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: You don't quite feel safe.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: You want to, you desire it, we want to be loved, we want to belong.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of times we don't feel safe.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been taught we we are not safe in in a myriad of ways.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it's just because our parents didn't understand us, even if they tried or they didn't know how to communicate that way.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was raised in it, an extremely black, white, you did it right or you did it wrong, and and there will be consequences type of environment.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it was a while before I could really be open with someone about how I felt about everything, because if they don't like it, it's a it's a huge problem, right?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're also it gets reinforced in school, it gets reinforced around another adult, it can often get reinforced in the business corporate world.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, just think about sales and marketing.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Go on any podcast right now that's heavy sales and marketing, and they'll tell you if you're not selling, it's your fault because you didn't do it right.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: You suck.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Either you didn't do it hard enough, you didn't do it the way you need to do it.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: You you've seen it.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we're so immersed in this.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: I must have done it wrong.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's not safe to say, in a lot of ways, either to your friend that you want to stop complaining with, or it took me a minute.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even understand I needed to trust my husband to love me, even when he didn't understand me.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_01: Which also goes back to self-trust and safety again.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's really interesting too because I was yeah, just yesterday, I was thinking about how I was feeling so misunderstood in so many different ways.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was like, what does that even mean?
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't even feel comfortable saying that I'm having vulnerable issues amongst this coaching group because then all of a sudden they want to like coach you.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, I don't need to be coached, I just want to be vulnerable.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I fall back into the, I feel so misunderstood.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then I fall back into the I don't need any support, you know.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: So you're right, it is that defense mechanism because we feel back to what we had talked about earlier.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: We need to put on that tough facade and be in that masculine energy.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you do feel like, all right, I'm gonna break down my walls a little bit, I'm gonna be a little bit vulnerable, and then you are vulnerable, and then something happens and you're like, wait, okay, I feel misunderstood.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wait, I can't be supported.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: Wait.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: So then it's just like you fall back into what you're talking about, that core programming and those core beliefs.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And so needing that ease and flow framework, I feel like is such a great reminder.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_01: There is a specific way I handled that, which you're talking about.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: And that's putting it in context.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because in some contexts, you will not be understood.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe in that group, if you've got a bunch of people who are trying to sell you coaching, they're not trying to understand you, they're trying to sell you coaching.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Which, you know, if you're like, I want to be sole coaching, that's a really cool place to be.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to be understood for who you are, it's not the right context.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, which is ironic though, because if you're a good coach, you would understand that people want to be understood, right?
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: They don't want to be told that they need to be coached, right?
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like you would.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I mean, sometimes our nervous systems trigger for a reason.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: I was invited to a networking thing a couple weeks ago by someone who found me on LinkedIn.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: It seemed like really nice.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_01: I perused their page.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, sure, why not?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Then I get a message, I need you to book a call with me if you're gonna come.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's weird.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then she's like, but you can come anyway.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_01: And then we get there, and there's like all these, it's basically a sales call.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm basically on two different sales calls.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, huh, my nervous system did go, hmm.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because it should have.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was picking up what she was putting down, which was what she was saying, was not what she was offering.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: So sometimes your your nervous system is telling you the truth.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, your intuition is saying to you, these people don't understand you, and they're not here to understand you, they're here to sell.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know about your group, I'm just saying that could be also a possibility.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's why authenticity is so important, I feel like in any business.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: And people, I feel like in 2026, now people are smelling it out so easily.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: People are like, Oh, oh, I don't like this.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is stinking syndrome.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: I can't smell this like we're we're on to you.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: Just say what you need in it.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, especially with AI now, people can smell that a mile away.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: They can tell when something has been like, all right, that's been rolled over through Chat GBT.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're trying to market me through something, right?
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always say, if you're gonna text me at midnight, at least offer me sex.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right, like it's it's midnight, you think you're saying hi to me?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like those scammers, they're getting pretty good.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: I would tell you, they're getting pretty good.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: Linda and the wine in their legs, like that's a weird thing to send to a stranger, but you know what?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: It gets me intrigued, you know.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that a lot of us just have we've been taught not to be honest with people, yeah.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: That you can't see yourself, that you can't be honest, yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in that context, like we talked about before we got on the recording about how social media a lot of it feels icky because you're told, oh, be honest, be real, be this, be that, but do it this way and this way.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like, this is all just fake shit.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so, in that context, if I put myself in that context, this is how it's gonna go.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: I choose not to.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's very helpful for us.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: And we're trying, like, if you're trying to market, say you're like, you know what?
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: I know that Instagram is the best place for me to go, even though it's not my favorite.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: In the context of Instagram, these things are the way they are.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Can I handle this?
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: Do I want to handle this?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you can decide and you can always change your mind.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that too.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, for anyone that is listening and love what you're having to say, I was gonna say what you're putting down.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, what would you say to them that you want to give them some sort of advice for their next steps?
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would say to them, trust yourself.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_01: Trust yourself.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a good one.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_00: Simple, just trust yourself.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I only ask, I only kind of hesitate too, because we've been trained to not know what that looks like, right?
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: What is trusting yourself look like, especially as women, we've been told that trusting ourselves when we do do that, that we're crazy, right?
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, what would trusting yourself look like?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: I tell you, so if you can do anything to quiet your mind even five, 10 minutes a day, if that's a gratitude journal, or if it's you know, I I listen to my little sound balls on YouTube like a crazy person, but it's so calming.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: If it's journaling, if it's just sitting somewhere quiet, the quietness inside of you is the voice to trust, not the main girl.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_01: She's not the one to trust.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: She's trying to protect you, she is, but that's not your intuition.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: The voice of your intuition, the voice of yourself will be quiet and she will be kind.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's often brave.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: Giving yourself permission.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: You're not dangerous.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: Your desires are benevolent.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_01: You're a really good person.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I feel like it's a great place to end.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: Roberta, thank you so much for opening up the toolbox for us today.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And a great reminder that ease isn't just the absence of our ambition and what ambition actually looks like when you stop paying it with your body and yourself, you know.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I'd love for you to let everyone that's listening where to find your ease and flow program and your podcast is you.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: You can find all these things on my website, which is the joyxperiment.live L I V E.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: The podcast, the tools, and all that, or how to contact me and all that will be there.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: They're all going to be in the show notes.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: So it's going to make it really easy for you to find everything.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: So if today's episode loosens something up for you, or if you caught yourself in the I haven't earned it yet story, I would love for you to do two things.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just follow Hustle Rebels wherever you're listening to the toolbox, it shows up for you automatically.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_00: And second, send this episode to a woman in your life who's still trying to prove herself to a finish line that keeps moving forward.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_00: Then you just share it to however the show grows.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: There's no ads, there's no algorithms.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the best way to be able to share this episode.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if you've got 30 seconds, I'd love a rating and a review because it genuinely helps more skeptics find us as well.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm Renee.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is Roberta.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: This has been the toolbox on the Hustle Rebels podcast.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: Stop hustling for your worth.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: It was never for sale to begin with.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: So see you guys next week.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, Renee.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.