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Why Podcast About Compiliance with Tom Fox · Inspiring Stories

0:03
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Pictures Media Radio. Welcome back, everybody.
1:40
Our next guest is also a podcaster. An award winning podcaster,
1:45
Tom Fox is the Voice of Compliance, having the only
1:50
podcast network in Compliance, the award winning Compliance to Podcast Network.
1:58
It is currently has sixty podcasts. Tom has won multiple
2:04
awards for podcast hosting and producing and was honored with
2:11
a Webby for his series Looking Back on nine to eleven.
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He is an executive leader and at the c Suite Network,
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the world's most trusted network of c suite leaders, and
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he is also a co founder of the Texas Hill
2:39
County Podcast Network. So hey, it's be quite the honored
2:47
to introduce him to the show and to interview him.
2:50
It should be fun. So let's ask some Tom some
2:56
questions about podcasting and what the Voice of Compliance really
3:01
means you want, So, welcome to the show. Tom. It's
3:40
glad to meet. Good to meet an award winning podcaster.
3:47
And you said it's said in in in the intro
3:50
that you won a Webby, So.
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Speaker 2: Uh well, I was actually one of the five finalists
3:59
for a Webby's, so you know when they say and
4:01
the nominees are, I was one of the nominees, but
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I didn't actually win it. Oh so close to the winter,
4:08
close to the winner, but not there yet.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that one in a film festival that
4:17
the nominees are and oh we didn't get this one.
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But that's okay. But you didn't start out podcasting. You
4:26
started out in another industry altogether, so right.
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Speaker 2: So yeah, I am a lawyer by professional background, and
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I started a new law practice in twenty ten. I
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was laid up from a bad accident and so the
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only time I left my house was to go physical therapy,
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and the only thing I had on my hands was time.
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At that point in my life, I knew nothing about
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social media, Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook, you name it. So I
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started exploring social media, and as a part of that
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social media marketing outreach, I started blogging. Well, a couple
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of years later, somebody emailed me and said, hey, let's
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start a podcast. So I started podcasting in twenty twelve,
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and it was just a natural outgrowth from blogging.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get that. So it says that
5:19
you are the also the only compliance network, compliance podcast network,
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and what does compliance really mean?
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Speaker 2: Sure? So that's correct, I'm the only I have the
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only podcast network in legal and regulatory compliance. I started
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that in twenty seventeen. But compliance means the program that
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you have inside your corporation to comply with laws, whether
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that's a law about export control, ani'm money laundering, trade sanctions,
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workplace violence, anti discrimination, anti harassment, whatever that laws you
5:58
have to follow might be. And so I have been
6:02
practicing law in that field, or started in seven or
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maybe a little bit earlier. And so I mentioned I
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started podcasting in twenty twelve, and so it was about compliance,
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and I got the bright idea, you know, I'll start
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a network where we can shake and bake and slice
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and dice all forms of compliance because they're multiple forms.
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So that's what I did.
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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, you know, because many people here listening their entrepreneurs,
6:40
they have numbered or named corporations. So why don't we
6:49
dive into into that compliance just a little bit to understand,
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you know, the different different ways we need to keep
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our businesses in compliance keep the government off.
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Speaker 2: Right. So, if you're a US public company, meaning you're
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you have stock listed on a stock exchange, that being
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a public company means you have to have a compliance
7:13
program that's written into a US law. Uh, but even
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if you're a private company, if you want to do
7:20
business basically with anyone in the United States, you have
7:23
to have a compliance program. And so yes, it's a
7:27
legal and regulatory compliance requirement, but businesses see the value
7:32
of doing business with other companies that do business ethically
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and in compliance. So it's now really business driven. But
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it's all kind of goes back to the same place
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do you have do you do business ethically? And do
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you do business and compliance? And what I wanted to
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do with my network, as you said, Michael, it was
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to talk about not only the different types of compliance,
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but I love telling stories, and so I started thinking,
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what about Shakespeare compliance, what about Star Trek in compliance?
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What about Sherlock Holmes and compliance? What about Star Wars
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in compliance? What about the MCU in compliance? What about
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sports and compliance? What about women in compliance? And so
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I look at compliance from all of those different angles
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and many many more, which gives the listener the ability
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to listen to the one that interests them. June one
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I started every year. On June one, I started a
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series called Trekking through Compliance, which is I do all
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seventy nine episodes of the original series of Star Trek
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so Star Trekrek Tos started in twenty seventeen. My numbers
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in twenty twenty three were twice what they were in
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twenty seventeen. And that's just repeating the same series. So
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it's just crazy. You know, people can't get enough of this.
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And this year I completely redid it, so it's a
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whole new series, but it's still episode of the original series.
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Or as my wife said, this is just an excuse
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for you to rewatch this, isn't it? So yeah you bet?
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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, why not rewatch it? Hey, I have a
9:11
DVD myself, right it would of thestas presents I ever
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got exactly.
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Speaker 2: So I just like telling stories. And if if you're
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an entrepreneur out there and you want to own your space,
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you can do that with a network. But the key
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is to be as niche as possible. So we had
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the chance to visit before we started recording this podcast,
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and you were like, I don't get it. I mean,
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compliance who would listen to that. I'm like, well, there's
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a small, detigate, dedicated group of people who that's that's
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important to them. So if you can find a very small, passionate,
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dedicated group and put out things that they want. You're
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going to be very successful. The other thing you can
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do in this was I can't really say I thought
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of it. I can say I did it. And it's
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the following. If you want to own your space, and
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I mean own it, start a daily news show. So
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I have the Daily Compliance News. It's three minutes of
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four stories and people love it. It's, you know, by far,
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my most popular podcast. And I you know, a guy
10:27
asked me at a podcast conference. He said, I do
10:31
a podcast on PTSD for Iraqi war veterans. I said,
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that's exactly the kind of news you need to talk about.
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You know, everyone who has that issue will listen to
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your podcast every day and doesn't matter what the stories are,
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you're just keeping them up to date. So whether you
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say the niches, the riches are in the niches, or
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go nish to go big, you can do that in
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whatever your space is, don't you know, don't say just
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I'm an entrepreneurs like no, I'm an entrepreneur in housing
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or I'm an entrepreneur in innovation or whatever it is,
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it doesn't matter. And then start a daily news podcast
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and you'll own your space.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that that is very true. Is especially there's
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there's a whole host of reasons why you want to
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do that daily news thing, from the Google searches to
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just putting it, putting the next episode up there on
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on Instagram or something, right, and it shows how relevant
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you are, right, absolutely, So yeah, so you do a
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daily news on compliance exactly?
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Speaker 2: And so what were the day today's stories? Well, I mean,
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just looking, I'll tell you the daily compliance news for
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June six, twenty twenty four. The Securities in Exchange Commission
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was closing a Salt Lake City office, the wirecard boss
12:07
lost as lawyer, a bank in England got in trouble
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for terrorists financing, and Toyota got raided in Japan. That's it.
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Three minutes and I just read the stories. I cite
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to the newspaper that ran the story, and that's it,
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and people absolutely love it.
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Speaker 1: What about commentary, Well, I mean I give a few
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words of commentary, but that's not the point of the news.
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Speaker 2: It's just reporting the news. I do lots of commentary podcasts.
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Typically I have a guest, although I have one that's
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a round table where we have five people, so almost
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the news is a solo podcast. My Sherlock Holmes series
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is a solo podcast, and My Star Trek is a
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solo podcast, and literally every other series is commentary with
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me and someone else.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and.
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Speaker 2: You want to know that. Even crazier thing people emailed
13:09
me and said, hey, we don't have time to listen daily,
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could you do a weekend wrap up of your news?
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So I take the top ten stories I've already talked
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about during the week and do something called ten for
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ten on Saturday. And it's as big as any other
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podcast I am. It's just crazy.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, people want the information, right and when it's
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something I know you're in a niche and everything with compliance,
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but if that if your niche, it's something important to people,
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then they're going to keep tending in, aren't they?
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Speaker 2: They are they are And that's the secret.
13:55
Speaker 1: Yeah, so how did you Well, I guess you're a
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lawyer working in this area to begin with, so you
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knew that it knew that there was a need right right. So,
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because that's one of the things is is people they say, oh,
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I'm going to do something, Uh, I'm going to do
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a podcast about this, is they? Well, is anybody have
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you checked to see if anybody wants that information, is it?
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Speaker 2: Well, I mean that's certainly part of it. But there's
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really a lot more and many more reasons to do
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a podcast. Number One, I get to talk to cool
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people like you. Sometimes I'm on your side of the mic,
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and sometimes I'm on my side of the mic. Yeah,
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but I get to all I talked to people in
14:49
this field all day. Number one. Number two is you
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may want to show your subject matter expertise in an area,
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and frankly, there's no better way than I think through
15:00
a podcast, and you know, pick your topic and talk
15:04
about it to show people, show why people should buy
15:08
your services or buy a product from you. Three is
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it is a great customer development tool or client development strategy.
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And by that, I mean if I send you an
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email and said, Michael, my name is Tom Fox, I've
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got this. I want to talk to you about a
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compliance product. You know, here's a scheduling link. Pick a time,
15:32
maybe or maybe not or probably not, You're not going
15:34
to answer that email. But if I send you an email,
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say Michael, I want you to come on my podcast
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and talk about yourself. Here's a scheduling link. Pick a time.
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You know you're going to get a pretty good response
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from something like that. So if there are people you
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want to do business with and you can't figure a
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way to get an introduction to them, just have them
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on your podcast and get comfortable. Get them comfortable with you. One,
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everybody wants to tell their story right to the interaction
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you'll have at least gives you some sort of relationship
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with them. And three, you can show your not simply
16:12
technical mastery of podcasting, but also a subject matter expert
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in expertise in your questions. So you know, just like
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you and I had a you know, pre recording call,
16:24
we got comfortable with each other, We had a lot
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of fun, realized we we both had a lot of
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similar interests, although we came from very different backgrounds, and said, hey,
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let's do this thing.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. One of them, of course, being a star Trek
16:40
star Wars, and is, hey, who doesn't love a good
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sci fi? Right right? Right? Well, And that leads into
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the whole thing about the story thing, right is, everybody
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wants to hear a good story, So.
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Speaker 2: So can you craft a story the people are going
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to be interested in? And I'll just give you the
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most recent example because it happened this week. I have
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one podcast. It's a commentary podcast about compliance with a
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friend and he emailed me and he said, look, I
17:17
want to talk about the Trump conviction from the compliance perspective.
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And I thought, well, that's going to be interesting. And
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this guy is he's much more liberal than me, and
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I was just afraid we were going to go way
17:32
off the rails, but we didn't. He kept it directly
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focused on compliance. He laid out the compliance violations that
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he saw and why are what companies could do to
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prevent some of those things happening in their organizations. It
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was incredibly professional. It was spot on for compliance professionals,
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and as he told me later, it was completely cathartic
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for him because he got to talk about it showtration,
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but do it in a way that was professional. So
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and it was a great story. And he framed it
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in a way that I didn't think or I hadn't
18:09
thought of, So I thought it was a great story. So, uh, anyway,
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there's lots of different ways to tell stories. And you know,
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if you want to talk about Star Trek, I'm I'm
18:18
your guys, So back on man.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, we we do have a have a political podcast
18:27
on my end of things, and the whole thing with Trump.
18:35
That was an interesting thing because of how it was
18:39
politically fueled.
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Speaker 2: Well, and so I'm a recovering trial lawyer, so I
18:44
looked at it from the trial lawyer's perspective, and the
18:49
prosecution told a very cogent, coherent story. The defense basically
18:56
said all of its lies, but they didn't frame it
19:00
in terms of a story that the jury could relate to.
19:03
And so I hope it's taught from you know, the
19:06
trial strategy and tactics perspective.
19:11
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, well, I was going to say, as a lawyer,
19:15
you must be really good, especially if you're actual litigator.
19:19
You said, trial lawyer, you have to be really good
19:25
at telling stories.
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Speaker 2: Well, I'm much better now through podcasting. But yeah, that's
19:31
what I did when I was a trial lawyer, and
19:32
that's that's what I do now. I just did it podcasting.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it would be a natural fit because you
19:41
you're used to telling the telling those stories.
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Speaker 2: Right, So right.
19:48
Speaker 1: It how do you how do you actually go about
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framing the framing a story out so that so that
19:54
people stay, they keep their ear glued to glued to
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what you're saying.
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Speaker 2: So I have two criteria and two criteria only for
20:04
a successful podcast. Number one how much did I learn?
20:08
And number two how much fun did I have? That's it.
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And the reason is there's a guy named Gary vander Chucker,
20:18
Gary Vee, and he's a famous entrepreneur in New York City.
20:24
And if I am engaged, the audience can tell that
20:30
in my voice. So they say in podcasting, people come
20:34
for the host. Excuse me, come for the guest, but
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stay for the host. And so if I'm learning something,
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I am a subject matter expert in compliance. But if
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I'm learning something, my audience is learning something. But even
20:46
more importantly, if I'm having fun, my audience is having
20:49
fun listening. And you know, if we go down a
20:51
rabbit hole on Star Trek, they're gonna love it and like, wow,
20:55
you know, Tom got somebody else going down Star Trek
20:58
rabbit holes. Let's check it out. No matter what the
21:01
podcast is, So if if it's engaging and if it's informative,
21:07
and if it's fun, people are gonna come back. And
21:10
so I try to give them that. And that's how
21:13
I judge the success of a podcast.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, let me ask you just on the on the
21:18
on the Star Trek level. How many? Uh, let's see,
21:26
have you have you met any of any of the
21:28
actors like well, of course William Shatner is still alive,
21:34
But I.
21:35
Speaker 2: Have not met any of the Star Trek actors. I
21:38
have met the son of Gene Roddenberry, a guy named
21:42
Rod Roddenberry who has a whole you know, uh business
21:48
around the Star Trek universe, and he's got several podcasts. So,
21:54
but in terms of any of the actors, none. Wow.
21:57
Speaker 1: But you met the son of the of the creator, right, wow,
22:03
that's that's an amazing thing.
22:06
Speaker 2: It was pretty cool. Yeah.
22:10
Speaker 1: We we have up here, uh what we call fan Expo,
22:15
and of course William Shatner shows up every just about
22:19
every year there because he lives in this area. So
22:25
so it's it's pretty If you go, you're pretty certain
22:29
to actually meet the guy. So it's it's pretty he's
22:32
a pretty interesting person. But to meet the originator's son,
22:37
that's gotta be a treat and a half to hear
22:42
how Geene Rottenberry went about with the creations from from
22:48
his son's point of view. That must have been pretty cool.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I went to what, I went by their offices.
22:54
It's in somewhere in Los Angeles, and they had some
22:57
of the original set from the original Star Trek, so
23:00
I got to sit in Captain Kirk's chair and you know,
23:04
do all that cool stuff. So yeah, it was it
23:06
was a lot of fun.
23:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that must have been because well, I
23:20
just like, I like, I can go all day about
23:23
different different things in sci fi and everything. Is the
23:28
Original Trick your favorite?
23:30
Speaker 2: Yes, it's the one I grew up with, and it's
23:34
my favorite.
23:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. I said it said something about the area that
23:41
you grew up in. Two it does.
23:44
Speaker 2: You're right. I can still remember when the first one
23:48
went in on air in September of nineteen sixty six.
23:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was a little too young. Well, let's put
23:57
this way. I was born in October sixty six, So.
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Speaker 2: You missed the first episode yea for the October Yeah,
24:06
you were tuning in in October there, Yeah.
24:08
Speaker 1: There you go, and they kept watching ever since then,
24:11
right there you go.
24:13
Speaker 2: Yep.
24:16
Speaker 1: So you started to start up podcasting one one to
24:22
fill the time. But it sounds like, uh that the
24:25
fun of actually talking to people and and uh and
24:31
creating the story has has kept kept you going.
24:36
Speaker 2: It really has. And like I said, you know, I
24:38
get to talk to cool people all day, But professionally,
24:41
what it's done for me, Michael, is I say that
24:46
I can either connect the dots or I can see
24:48
around corners. It's not because I'm super human. It's just
24:51
because I'm talking to everyone, and I'm literally talking to
24:55
the top experts and compliance every day, so I can
24:58
put together these different things I'm hearing in patterns. So
25:04
it's really given me. It's up my professionalism in the
25:07
compliance arena.
25:08
Speaker 1: Yeah. But with that being said, in compliance it's it's
25:13
it's a it's not a one size fits all and
25:15
it's not something that's ever going to be static, is it.
25:19
Speaker 2: No, it's incredibly dynamic, always evolving, And you're absolutely right.
25:24
What you need for a fifty million dollar company is
25:27
not what you need for a two hundred billion dollar multinational.
25:32
Tom Fox Law Firm does not need the compliance that
25:36
Walmart needs and vice versa.
25:38
Speaker 1: Yeah, with that being said, but you understand why Walmart
25:46
needs a different level of compliance than say Joe's Eatery
25:54
up the street?
25:56
Speaker 2: You bet so?
26:00
Speaker 1: Yeah. Does being an international company mean that you did did?
26:07
Did you also have to because you have to be
26:09
in compliance in every nation you're in, right.
26:13
Speaker 2: Well, if you're a US company, there's a US law
26:17
which says you cannot bribe companies outside the US. So
26:24
there's that law in Canada. You shouldn't get the name, right, Well,
26:31
it's a c f p O A. Canada has a
26:34
similar anti corruption law. So a Canadian company doing business
26:39
in Mexico can't pay bribes in Mexico and that because
26:42
that violates a Canadian law law. So simply because you're
26:46
located in the US, if you do business outside of
26:49
the United States, you're going to have laws apply to
26:50
you that are US laws.
26:52
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, okay, you brought up were part of I
26:56
just sort of a really good example of this one
26:58
because it's a Chinese company, Yahweh, and they detained well yeah, yeah,
27:10
they detained here in Vancouver. Uh, the CFO of Yahweh
27:17
as she landed here in Vancouver heading to Boston to
27:20
go see her son. But it was on a mail
27:24
fraud charge that that the I think it was the
27:29
US attorney issued the warrant for.
27:34
Speaker 2: Well done, Michael, Yes, So the Canadian government arrested a
27:40
corporate officer from officer of Huahwei, a Chinese company in
27:44
Canada on a US warrant and absolutely and it was
27:50
alleging that Huawei had created or done lending or borrowed
27:57
money from banks through fraud because as they said, they
28:01
were not doing business with Iran, and the U s
28:04
government alleged they were. And I don't know why or
28:08
how Canada got in the middle of this, but they did.
28:11
But it just shows the power of compliance and what
28:15
you have to watch for literally on a worldwide basis.
28:18
Speaker 1: Yeah, how Canada had gotten fobbed doing it is there
28:22
is a treaty or something that the Canadian federal government
28:29
can impose or ask for the US the US government
28:36
to serve a warrant and vice versa. There's a treaty
28:40
there between the two countries.
28:43
Speaker 2: For a law non lawyer. You're incredibly well informed politics.
28:49
There you go.
28:52
Speaker 1: Like I said, we do a political podcast and we
28:57
and I actually had to get into of that in sake.
29:01
But how But with that being said, the reason why
29:05
I bring them up is because there's also there were
29:11
some arguments back and forth about how they stole technology
29:15
and in China there are no such things as copyright laws.
29:20
In the US and Canada have very strict copyright laws.
29:25
Speaker 2: Right. So I as part of my former life as
29:29
a lawyer, I represented a company and we had business
29:33
with Chinese companies and we sold technology into Chinese companies.
29:38
And this was the first decade. This is twenty years ago,
29:40
so you know, it's a while back, but we knew
29:44
that China was stealing our ip and that was just
29:48
either that was a risk you accepted or a cost
29:51
of doing business. So the answer, or the business response
29:56
or the risk management strategy, if you want to call
29:59
it a business process, was that the we would only
30:04
sell them technology that was two generations old, right, so
30:09
that it wasn't our most current technology. And whether they
30:13
were able to reverse engineer from that that I don't
30:15
know the question too. But that's been a problem with
30:19
doing business with China for a long time.
30:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, like you said, the reverse engineering part, and it
30:25
was something that I discovered U. In a former life,
30:31
I was a analytical chemist and I worked for Mitsubishi,
30:37
which is another country that has very lax copyright laws.
30:44
And I remember going into a movie theater and seeing
30:48
these video cameras up if we're there simply just recording
30:52
the movie, and like, isn't there a law against that,
30:55
and the guy that was taking me to the movie
30:57
he said, Nope, no law, We're allowed to do that.
31:02
Speaker 2: Yep.
31:04
Speaker 1: So do you would you help as a lawyer? Would
31:10
you would you help a company understand that those practices
31:15
so that uh so that they stay within compliance or
31:19
they or they know what the risk series that you're taking.
31:23
Speaker 2: Sure, So that's one of the things I do. What
31:26
I focus on is I help build compliance programs inside
31:33
of companies. So I call myself the nuts and bolts
31:36
guy because that's really my expertise. Uh. Lawyers either they
31:43
do what I do, or they typically will do internal
31:46
investigations or negotiate with the government. If you're going to
31:50
do the investigations, you need bodies. Rankly, you're gonna have
31:56
to go to a lot of a lot of places
31:58
and talk to a lot of people. I'm a solo,
32:00
so I'm not the right person for that. If you're
32:03
going to sit across the table and negotiate from with
32:06
the government, I think you need to have been a
32:08
government lawyer at some point. And I've never worked for
32:12
the government. I've always been in private practice, and I
32:15
think that's a level. It's just a level of expertise
32:17
I don't have. Well, what I have done is build
32:21
compliance programs inside of corporations and I know how to
32:24
do that, and so that's that's what I focus on
32:27
in my practice of compliance.
32:29
Speaker 1: Right, that makes sense, you know, they find the right
32:37
guy for the for the right job.
32:40
Speaker 2: That's what I try to be.
32:41
Speaker 1: Yeah. Of course, leading back to the podcasting thing though,
32:49
it means that you get to network with a lot
32:51
of different people and a lot of different skill sets.
32:53
So if absolutely, if ABC company comes to that came
33:00
out wrong. But anyway, they come to you and say, hey,
33:05
this is what we need, and you can say, honestly, hey,
33:11
I don't actually do that, but I know this guy
33:14
and I actually interviewed him. Why don't you listen to
33:16
his interview and see if he's a fit for what
33:18
you want.
33:19
Speaker 2: You're absolutely spot on, and that's that's why people should
33:22
come on my podcast and talk to me.
33:24
Speaker 1: Absolutely so, I think that the podcasting is a very
33:34
valuable tool in today's marketplace.
33:38
Speaker 2: I am in one agreement with you, Michael. I think
33:42
every business needs a podcast, and at least in America,
33:47
over sixty percent of Americans have listened to a podcast
33:50
that's between one hundred and eighty million and two hundred
33:54
million people. You simply cannot get that kind of exposure
33:58
in any other medium. It's not going to replace television
34:03
marketing or written you know, advertising, but it certainly supplements that,
34:09
and it gives you the ability to do the things
34:11
we talked about earlier. So showcase yourself as a subject
34:14
matter expert, reach out to customers or potential customers, reach
34:17
out to other subject matter experts so that you can
34:20
learn from them, and then you know, develop your own
34:24
audience through social media marketing. So for all of those reasons,
34:28
I'm one hundred percent with you that every business needs
34:31
a podcast, every entrepreneur needs a podcast. You need to
34:35
get a podcast going to do all of the things
34:37
that you can do in the social media realm.
34:40
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, would you say that even if you're you know,
34:49
you don't have the time or patience to to to
34:52
to do your own podcast, but to get interviewed on
34:55
as many podcasts.
34:56
Speaker 2: As possible, Absolutely, I would start there. I think we
35:01
met through podmatch, and even if we didn't, I'm going
35:06
to shout out to pod match because they are exactly
35:09
what their name says. They match up podcasters with people
35:12
who want to be guests, and so that's just one
35:17
avenue that I use. But anytime you get the chance
35:20
to go on a podcast, there are lots I get.
35:24
You know, PR pitches on a daily basis.
35:26
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, I was going to see if for
35:32
those listening, if you can't afford a PR person if,
35:37
pod match is probably the number one spot to get
35:41
interviewed several times.
35:44
Speaker 2: I think I paid I don't know, twenty bucks a month.
35:47
I mean it's relatively minor, and you get, like I said,
35:52
I as a potential guest, get matched up with a
35:55
potential host like yourself. We exchange information to see if
35:59
it would be a good fit we can. Then I
36:01
have a pre interview call to see if you know
36:04
we want to move forward, and then then we do
36:06
the podcast. So it's a it's a great service, and
36:09
I think pod match has been great for me and
36:11
the compliance community.
36:13
Speaker 1: Yeah, very valuable tool. Do you have a favorite story
36:20
of of of of an interview that you just learned
36:24
lots of.
36:27
Speaker 2: So probably two. I mentioned Rod Roddenberry, Well he he
36:36
uh not himself personally. This company has a podcast where
36:40
they're going through every episode of every Star Trek, everything,
36:46
TV movie spin offs, you name it, and those guys
36:51
I have met, and so when I was out in
36:55
Los Angeles, I interviewed them and you know, we went
37:00
through every original series, every TNG, every DS nine. I
37:07
mean we didn't go through every episode, but it was
37:09
like fifty years of Star Trek and they know much
37:13
more than I do. So that was just heavenly for me.
37:16
That was probably my favorite, just because it was full geekness.
37:21
You could not have geeked out more and that was
37:24
probably my favorite.
37:26
Speaker 1: So, yeah, it sounds like you follow all of this,
37:30
all of the tracks.
37:31
Speaker 2: I do, So.
37:34
Speaker 1: I'll be honest with you. Right now, I have sitting
37:38
in my DVD player Picard.
37:42
Speaker 2: Well and I'm doing with two other people. We're doing
37:48
our fifteen top episodes from DS nine. Oh I love
37:53
DS nine.
37:54
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like. I like Avery Brooks. He was
38:05
great actor, you know. Uh. And that's one of the
38:10
one of the things I always liked about the tracks
38:12
is like, Okay, yeah, the the original trick was was
38:18
very much of a spaghetti western, but but some of
38:24
the some really excellent actors and and then spians in
38:30
in the other tracks. So so yeah, they have a
38:38
great way of rounding up talent. So you have a
38:46
process too to getting people onto your podcast. Since we're
38:49
talking about rounding up talent, how do you how do
38:51
you round up the right guests for for the right uh,
38:54
for the right topic and compliance?
38:57
Speaker 2: Well, One, I know everybody, So if there's some specific
39:04
thing I want to talk about, I know, you know
39:07
the top ten people who will know about that thing,
39:09
whatever that thing might be, whether it's a court case,
39:13
whether it's a new law, whether it's a new regulation,
39:15
whatever it might be. Two is I am an addict
39:22
on LinkedIn and I'm always reading LinkedIn and if somebody
39:25
posts something that interests me, I DM them and say, hey,
39:28
that's an interesting idea. Would you like to come on
39:30
a podcast and talk about that? Like this woman she
39:34
wrote a I don't know two or three paragraphs on
39:37
LinkedIn and the question was do you know your hotline number?
39:42
And so I DMed her and I said this is fascinating,
39:46
Tell me more. And she said, well, I used to
39:48
do hotline training, meaning internal reporting training, and the first
39:53
question I would ask the audience is do you know
39:55
your hotline number? And I thought that's effing brilliant. Where
40:00
did you learn that? And I just thought it up?
40:02
So I ended up interviewing her about that. She's not
40:05
a lawyer, and you know, she had a very different
40:08
perspective than me and just a you know, a regular
40:10
person or what you know, the lawyers would call civilians.
40:13
And she just said she started training that way and
40:16
people understoo where she was coming from.
40:18
Speaker 1: Wow, do you know your hotland? Wow, that's a pretty
40:22
good one.
40:23
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I know you came out of the
40:25
corporate world at one point, and you know, did you
40:27
know your hotline number way back then? No?
40:30
Speaker 1: I didn't. There you go, I didn't. Well one our
40:37
our our home office was, uh was in Tokyo and
40:43
I was in Queen Creek, Arizona. So yeah, so we're
40:50
talking like how many different time zones? So no, I
40:59
didn't know it. Yeah, you know, and they and it
41:03
probably would have been good to have.
41:06
Speaker 2: Yeah.
41:07
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that would be something that that that you
41:11
want to make sure that for those of you listening
41:15
and they make sure your your employees have have that
41:19
that that hotline number two to get whatever help they need, right, right? So,
41:31
is there a how to put this? Is there a
41:36
favorite uh? Compliance topic, did you did you like? No?
41:44
Speaker 2: I like them all and sometimes I like some more
41:48
than others, you know, And right now, probably my favorite
41:51
is data analytics because that's relatively new and compliance, So
41:56
how do you look at how do you analyze the
41:58
data that your company has as and then how do
42:00
you make decisions about how do you use that data?
42:04
So that's that's something I'm very focused on AI right now.
42:08
What's the role of AI and compliance? How do you
42:10
use AI? Is there a role things like that? How
42:15
do you govern AI usage inside of a corporation? Those
42:18
are just two of the hottest topics right now.
42:21
Speaker 1: Yeah. On the on the topic of AI. Since we
42:25
were back, we talked a little bit about I P.
42:30
It's kind of a hot button thing because how do
42:34
you determine whose I P the the AI is when
42:39
it produces, say say a document or or an image.
42:46
Speaker 2: Uh, you're you're absolutely right. And this whole deal with
42:49
you know, Scarlet Johanson and the voice that's got everybody
42:54
kind of up in arms. But the other thing is,
42:59
how do you know the answer AI has given you
43:02
is correct? Now, if I ask in a compliance question, frankly,
43:07
I'm going to know the answer. But so I'll give
43:12
you this example because it happened to me this week.
43:15
I was writing about a trial that happened in the
43:17
eighties and the defendant, a gentleman, was married to the
43:22
original wonder Woman, Linda Carter, and I knew that, and
43:29
it was himself and a co defendant, and the AI
43:33
report I got when I put in what I want
43:36
information I wanted about the trial, said that he was
43:40
the son in law of the other defendant, that he
43:44
was married to the daughter of the other defendant. And
43:47
I thought that that's not right, and so I started
43:52
doing queries, you know, what's the relationship of Robert to Nancy?
43:57
And it came back, well, Nance, he was the daughter
44:02
of so and so. And then I said, okay, what's
44:04
the relationship of Nancy to the original wonder woman Linda Carter?
44:10
And it came back and said, well, there were sisters
44:13
in law. And I said, this is not making sense.
44:16
And I did one more query and I get the answer,
44:19
We are sorry, we gave you an incorrect answer. Robert
44:23
Alman was married to Linda Carter. Are bad? And I went, wow, now,
44:30
chat GP is telling you when they were wrong. But
44:33
if I hadn't gone through those detailed additional queries, I
44:38
wouldn't have gotten an answer. And if I hadn't known
44:41
that that defendant was married to wonder woman when at
44:43
the time, I wouldn't have ever started that. So you know,
44:49
you have to do research. You have to see if
44:53
what AI has told you is correct. And I mean
44:55
the big example in the States is there was a
44:57
lawyer and he had AI write some chiefs and he
45:00
got they were wrong, and he got in big trouble
45:03
with the court and we all went, ah, how stupid. Well,
45:06
except the learning point is you've got to check what
45:09
they give you. It's a first draft of something, but
45:14
if there's information in there, you you know, it's on
45:16
you to verify it's correct.
45:19
Speaker 1: Right, right, Hm, that's I'd like to say this about
45:28
AI that if you're going to use chat, GPT for
45:36
or whatever else is it falls into open AI for
45:43
for something, make sure that you did that. Maybe you
45:46
should leave it to the expert to do that, to
45:49
use that tool because he knows how to do it better.
45:56
Speaker 2: Well here's what I've felt like, and uh uh, maybe
46:01
this will resonate with you. When I was eleven, my
46:02
parents bought my sister and I had cyclopad Encyclopedia Britannica
46:07
for the first time. We never had an encyclopedia, and
46:11
I thought it was the greatest thing I had ever seen.
46:13
I literally had the world from A to Z at
46:17
my fingertips and I could read, I could study, I
46:20
could write a report. I've been a geek a long time,
46:22
so you know, I enjoyed stuff like that, and that's
46:24
what I felt like with chat GPT. But your point
46:28
is exactly right. You have to double check it. Yeah,
46:32
doesn't mean you can't use it, but if there's a
46:34
fact in there and you want to make your argument
46:37
turns on that fact, you have to make sure that
46:38
fact is correct.
46:40
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I do remember Encyclopedia Britannica because I remember
46:47
doing all sorts of reports and everything from it, with
46:50
all the volumes from A to z. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
46:58
That may beest thing with with AI though, is if
47:04
you don't know to check how to check it, then
47:07
maybe you should leave it to the expert, or go
47:11
to the expert with with the question and or somehow
47:18
fact check whatever it is that you're that you're doing.
47:21
And it doesn't seem like a lot of people want
47:23
to do that. So all right, So if you wanted
47:32
to create this world with your podcast, what would it look.
47:37
Speaker 2: Like, Well, it would look like more people listening to
47:44
compliance related podcasts than there are. So because I see,
47:51
I mean, we've both been in corporate America and we
47:53
both understand business process and we we were I would say,
47:58
more creative now, But doesn't mean we don't understand what
48:00
a business process is. In the purpose for a business process,
48:03
I see compliance as a business process, and if I
48:06
can convince people this is just how you should do business,
48:10
it will make you a better business and make you
48:12
a more profitable business. That's what I'm trying to communicate.
48:16
And the more people I can communicate that to the
48:19
happier and better off than I am. The world loses
48:25
three trillion dollars annually to bribery and corruption. It loses
48:28
two trillion dollars annually to money laundering, theft through money laundering.
48:33
Every day that I do compliance, I'm moving the ball forward,
48:38
you know, two steps, one step, three steps, whatever it is,
48:41
a half a step, I don't care. But I'm part
48:43
of that fight of those two really horrible worldwide scourges.
48:49
Because if we could put five trillion dollars back into
48:51
the world's economy. We could solve a lot of the
48:54
world's problems. So I feel like I'm a part of
48:58
something that's bigger than me. Uh And I get to
49:01
tell stories, get to talk to people like you, and
49:05
I get to help businesses be more profitable. So that's
49:09
what it would look like. But that's what I'm doing now.
49:11
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, honestly, on that one, a business that is
49:17
making profit the right way is in the long run
49:22
helping its community, helping its employees into a whole lot
49:26
more good than just whatever the basic product is that
49:30
they're putting out there, right, So yeah, all right, Well,
49:35
it's been great having you on. We just need one
49:39
last item, and that is how to find the Compliance
49:43
Podcast Network.
49:46
Speaker 2: Sure, so, the Compliance Podcast Network is found at www
49:50
Appliance Podcastnetwork dot net. You can find me on LinkedIn
49:53
as Thomas R. Fox. You can email me at T
49:57
Fox at T Foxlaw dot com. I love to talk
50:00
to you if you want to be on a podcast,
50:02
let me know, all right, Thanks Tom Michael, thank you
50:06
so much for having me on.
52:34
Speaker 1: The show has been produced by Depictions Media. Please contact
52:39
us at Depictions dot media for more information,