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Death by Cannabis: Inside a Grow-Op Murder Mystery with Steve Stacey · Bite Me The Show About Edibles

• 1:15
  Speaker 2: And the sun is shining friends, it's episode 310.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: And today we're talking to Steve Stacey, author of Death by Cannabis.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Bite Me, the show about edibles, where I help you take control of your high life.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: I'm your host and certified ganger, margaret, and I love helping cooks make safe and effective edibles at home.
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're here.
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Welcome back, friends, to another fabulous episode of Bite Me, the Show About Edibles, where we explore the intersection of food culture and cannabis while helping cooks make great edibles at home.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: But today we are getting out of the kitchen because, frankly, where I live it is too damn hot to turn on the stove.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: So I am thrilled to bring you this conversation with Steve Stacey.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: You're going to learn more about Steve's personal journey today, but I had the pleasure to meet Steve earlier this year in person and bought his books from him, and the topic of today's episode death by cannabis and death by cannabis the re-up a murder mystery that takes place in a grow up.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Steve was friendly, personable and kind and I knew I needed to have him on the show to talk about his books and, don't worry, there's no spoilers.
• 2:21
  Speaker 1: So when I'm not in the kitchen making edibles or recording podcast episodes or listening to podcasts, you can often find me with a book in hand, and I recommend these books, and if you're not convinced by the end of the episode, then you'll have to let me know books, and if you're not convinced by the end of the episode, then you'll have to let me know.
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: We cover a number of things in this episode, such as what inspired him to write Death by Cannabis in the first place, his creative writing process and what parts of writing these books brought him the most joy.
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: We cover a whole lot more in this episode and I know you're going to enjoy it.
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: So, without further ado, please enjoy this conversation with Steve Stacey.
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: All right, we are live, and I am really excited to have author Steve Stacey with me today, whom I met very recently in person, and I bought your books and I was so delighted by them that I was like I have to have you on the show.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: So, steve, can you just take a minute to introduce yourself to the listeners of Bite Me?
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: Sure, my name is Steve Stacey and I am currently in Stratford, ontario, at my house and in my office, and I am the author of two books.
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, I have them right here Death by Cannabis and Death Other Backwards.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: Do you mind showing up backwards when you look at them?
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: No, they show up properly, I'll get them for you.
• 3:45
  Speaker 2: Okay, because they look backwards when I'm looking at them Death by Cannabis and then the sequel recently launched, Death by Cannabis 3-Up, and Margaret might be the first person who ever read them from cover to cover, both in a row, because there was a almost like a two-year gap between the two, so most people read the first one, had to wait a year and then read the second one.
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: So you're the first person that I know, including me, who's read them like straight right, that's awesome.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: I'm glad to say that I can uh have that as an achievement, because I did like read them over.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: It was like a long weekend, maybe a five-day weekend or whatever, but uh, I just couldn't put them down.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: Once I got into them I was just like they were so good thank you so much.
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, that's amazing to hear um a lot of some.
• 4:31
  Speaker 2: You know there's one thing about getting the book and then there's another thing about reading it.
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: And so there's a lot of some.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: You know there's one thing about getting the book and then there's another thing about reading it and so there's a lot of people even really good friends of mine who I know.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: I'm like yeah, I know you've got the book, but have you actually read it?
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: And so I tell them, because they're like, oh, I just haven't had the time or I haven't gone away or something I tell them hey, it's a quick, they're both quick reads as, as you've noticed, compared to big other books, it's meant to be a page turner, it's meant to not be too dense and to get through.
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: And then I tell them, if that's not enough, put it in the washroom and you'll read it three times.
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: That's some good advice, but I always read my books that I buy because, well, I guess I'm a reader, so I make time for it pretty much every day.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: But now, before we get into the process of writing the book and more about Death by Cannabis and Death by Cannabis 3-Up, can you just talk a little bit about your own cannabis journey?
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: Sure, absolutely.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: So.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I tried cannabis for the first time when I was very young, just because it was sort of in my environment.
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: I grew up in the 70s and 80s and so, like I tried weed when I was still single digits and I have kids now.
• 5:42
  Speaker 2: So I'm like holy fuck, I didn't even know what I was doing.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: It was like I had this crazy pipe that I found and I thought it was pipe tobacco.
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: I had no fucking clue what I was doing, me and my friend, and I remember turning him and being like imagine if this was Mary Jane just joking, and it was so.
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Anyway, that wasn't like a deliberate, that was just sort of like an accident and I don't even think we really inhaled.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: But then fast forward, not that many more years.
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: I was still pretty young and got introduced to it and yeah, it's been part of my life ever since.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: Recreationally, cultivation-wise is something that really drew me to the whole sort of culture and experience of the plant.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I lived in Toronto until I was 15 and then my family moved out, actually not too far from you're near Peterborough, right.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah so you know where the big apple is on the 401.
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: Yes, I do, that's where my family moved from toronto.
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: We moved to a farm near colburn, ontario.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, so my farmer's market was the peterborough farmer's market.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know if oh cool up through keen and up along right.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Nice part of the world.
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: Uh, where are you?
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: Are you in peterborough or outside of peter?
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: I'm just outside of Peterborough.
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Okay, cool, yeah.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I like North Venice more, but yeah.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: Okay, so, anyway.
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: So when you move to the country, there's a lot of opportunities to find little pockets to grow in, and so I found a really, really good one.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: And, yeah, I think I grew my first plant when I was like 16 or 17.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I think I grew my first plant when I was like 16 or 17.
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: And that was the start of a beautiful relationship, because when you grow weed, it's free.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: It certainly does open up some opportunities, and so you're still cultivating today.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: I am.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I have a grow right underneath my feet here in my basement, yeah, yeah.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: So I'm still cultivating, cultivating, and in fact, it opened up a whole world to me of gardening and growing.
• 7:45
  Speaker 2: I'm not much of a flower gardener, but I'm a food gardener and I'm a weed gardener.
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: I like free stuff, so, and I also love getting my hands dirty and stuff like that.
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I actually moved on to, like, in my non-cannabis life, I created a whole bunch of community gardens.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: I was the director of a not-for-profit that was all about growing your own food.
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, my passion for gardening.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: If you get to know me well enough in that gardening community, I say well, it all started with growing weed.
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: That's amazing, and I know a lot of cultivators that love to grow weed, but also, you know like you grow other things, like whether it's vegetables.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: I know a few that love to grow flowers as well, and I mean, if you can grow one, you can grow the other.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: A hundred percent, yeah, for sure.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fun to sort of see what.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: What crosses over and like it's like.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, I can use my bloom fertilizer mix for my tomato fruit.
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, that's pretty awesome yeah thanks, thanks, it's a great time of year too.
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: My garden is just rocking out there right now because it's been loving the heat, loving the rain, yeah, and even like how it was sort of cool in the spring.
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: That's just like the best for, as you probably know, for gardening.
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Do you do outdoor?
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: Do you do outdoor?
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: Do you do outdoor like cultivation?
• 8:56
  Speaker 2: yeah, I do.
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I do, I have.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: I have one plant in my backyard.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: So there's a story in the first book about um.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: The character's name was tom and he was so happy when legalization happened because he was going to make his, like his opus, in his backyard he was going to grow four of the best plants of all time.
• 9:13
  Speaker 2: Finally, wasn't going to have to worry about the cops, was going to just be able to give it all that you know, not have to drive out to his plants.
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: He was going to be able to see them every day and it's a labor of love and he was really into it.
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: And then he got robbed by his next door neighbor.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Right, I wasn't going to do any spoilers, but that's Spoilers.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: I'll try to remind you.
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: My 12-year-old fucking you can swear on podcast my 12-year-old neighbor totally robbed my crop in my backyard.
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: So now I've moved it, because it turns out that when you're growing weed in the city, it's not the cops that you have to worry about, it's the fucking neighbors.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm pretty fortunate right now that I live in a place where there are very few neighbors, so the odds of that happening because I do have a little outdoor grow going on right now.
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: So I'm really looking forward to it and every year I'm like this is going to be the year it's going to be the best grow ever.
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: And every year something happens and that doesn't necessarily work out, but considering that I make so many edibles anyway, it's always a win.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: So it doesn't matter, right.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: I just enjoy doing it.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: Outdoor and edibles are made for each other for sure.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, A hundred percent.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: So I mean, we could talk about growing all day, but that's not really why we're here.
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about your books Now.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: Just to get us started, what inspired you to write Death by Cannabis and the re-up?
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: So a number of things inspired it, but I think I could probably trace it back.
• 10:42
  Speaker 2: I can definitely trace it back to when I worked at the LP.
• 10:44
  Speaker 2: So another part of my later part of my cannabis journey was I was working at home writing.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: So I've been a writer my whole life.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: I went to university for writing.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: I worked as a freelance writer for like 15 years before I did that project I was telling you about the community gardens and all that and then after that I was doing another writing project, I was doing content marketing for basically blogging, and this LP opened up five minutes away from my house.
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: At that time it was medical, it was actually pre-recreational, so they opened in like or sorry, they announced that they were building and opening in like 2015, 2016.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: And then recreational, you know, got, became part of the mix, and they always had this website that said coming soon, coming soon, right, and I was always checking it because I wanted to know the updates and they had no social media, no, anything, and so it was just like this wall of no communication from this LP that I was really interested in finding out about, and I had met the owner and the master grower while I was working at that charity because I invited him to come see our greenhouse.
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: So we had already connected.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: And so, long story short, I told them I'd come and I'd work on their website and I'd work on their social media because they obviously needed it for half the time, if they let me, and I'd also work in production the other half of the time.
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: So they said, great.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: So basically, like most of the time it was, my mornings were in production and then my afternoons were at the desk working on the, the communication stuff, um and so, uh, what happens in production.
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: It's one of those be careful what you wish for things, right?
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: You're like, oh, my god, I'm gonna work at a weed factory.
• 12:31
  Speaker 2: It's like, yes, but do remember the, the factory part.
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: You are now going to work in a factory, and so that along with it came, with a great team, a whole bunch of people who I got to meet, but also there's a whole bunch of like sitting around the table trimming or inspecting bud or packaging bud or doing whatever it is that you happen to be doing cloning and while you're doing that, no one's just standing there not listening or not talking.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Everyone's engaged in something, and there was so much storytelling that took place that I was like, wow, it would be fun to be, like, to create a book where, like you, went around the table and people would tell their stories from the trim table or something like that.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: You know, and anyone who's been in a crew trimming, whether it's in a professional or non-professional setting, knows so many stories get told.
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: Now, the only difference is when you're in a non-professional setting, you also get to smoke weed while you trim.
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: In the professional setting it's not quite like that.
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: But, um, everyone very, very few people in that setting were not consumers.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: Some were there.
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: There's stories are super interesting too, anyway.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: So as you're sitting there listening to all these great, sometimes hilarious, sometimes heartbreaking stories coming at you all the time and you're a writer you're like, wow, this is, this is something that's worth telling.
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: And then you add to that the whole taking a step back and being like like wow, my country legalized cannabis before any other than Uruguay, which I've never I've never heard any stories from Uruguay yet.
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: I'd love to hear some stories from Uruguay.
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I haven't either.
• 14:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they just have that thing where they're like we did it first, um, and so yeah.
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: So, knowing that, that there was a pretty historic I'd say um series of events happening that I was actually right in the middle of, I felt, like, you know, my writer's instincts kicked in and I was like I need to document this, I need to have fun with it, I need to do it justice in a way.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: That's, you know that the form and the content are going to work well together, right, are going to work well together, right?
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: So I thought, well, you know, cannabis is having this moment where it's like, you know, it's getting sort of like legitimized but at the same time, there's still tons of stigma, there's still the sort of like, you know, recreational pothead style consumer.
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: And then you have these like medical consumers, and CBD is a thing now, and you know how is it working for the people who were you know thing now and you know what, how is it working for the people who were, you know, criminals yesterday and you know your dispensary today, right?
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: What's that like?
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: It seemed like a lot of really cool tension and some really cool, just sort of like historical stuff to document.
• 15:13
  Speaker 2: So that's why the first book starts on day one of legalization and then it flashes forward about five years later because it's like, okay, so legalization happened, but now that we're five years in, what's that actually been like and what are some of the stories that we've come across since then?
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: So also just sorry, I'm talking a lot, but I guess that's what I'm here for.
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: Also, after that I became the brand rep for the LP I was working for.
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: So they're like you clearly love this weed and love what we do and love to tell stories about it.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: So we're going to put you out into the field, going from store to store talking about the weed, showing people the samples, doing pop-ups, all that stuff.
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: So for stuff.
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: So for several years that was my that I, they, they released me from my trim table, you know, from my trim table labor, and let me go out and share the stories of that lp, which there were some great stories that that to tell and some great weed that came out of that lp too.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: So that's what inspired me to uh, to tell to um, to write the books that totally makes sense too, especially with the sequel.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: The way it's all from the perspective of, I guess, a brand ambassador, I don't want to say too much more, but yeah, that's I think that's totally yeah, yeah, and it's hard to talk about these people without giving away your stuff but it totally makes sense because you like, when you read the books, you obviously have a very intimate knowledge of how a commercial grow-up works, or a legal grow-up works, and so my original question was just like how did you do the research needed for the books in order to do that, to come across as authentically as they did?
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: But you worked in it.
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: I literally worked in it I also.
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: It was really nice to work with the master grower there.
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: He is a very, very talented and gifted person who has completely dedicated his life.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: I like to say I thought I knew about weed.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: I thought, I knew about weed until I met him, until I started working at this LP, and then I was like, oh my God, I know very, very little about weed.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: It turns out it was especially the cultivation side, and so there was this entire world that got open to me, because the great part about that was, yes, I got to work in the grow, but then in the afternoons I got to work with him, where, so, as you know, like there's very, very strict marketing rules in cannabis, right, and so you're allowed to educate, but you're not allowed to, you know, have a spiel to buy this.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: So, and he was such an amazing expert with such an incredible mind that I was like this is great, what we're going to do.
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: We're going to blog, we're going to tell people about how to grow their own weed.
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: We're going to tell people everything that you know about weed, we're going to put it out there and we're going to show people what an expert you are, so that when the time comes, they're going to say, oh, I want to buy weed grown by someone who really cares and really knows what they're talking about and they're going to think of us, right.
• 18:02
  Speaker 2: So it's that sort of like Trojan horse of marketing, sort of couched within education, and in so doing, I learned so much.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: I had to like you can't put stuff on a blog that's bullshit, right?
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: You need to fact check and you need to like.
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: You know there's so much science, to be honest, that I looked up and learned about.
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: You know, terpenes.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: I didn't even know what a terpene was before I started working for the LP.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: And now it's like.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: Now it's everything.
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: It's a big deal.
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it turns out.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: That was as much about the experience as the THC was.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, much about the, the experience as the as the thc was.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: So, um, so yeah, and so yeah and like down many, many rabbit holes.
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: Uh, I used to call them strains and now I call them culture.
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: I was about to say strain names of our names yeah these things that uh and genetics and um, minor cannabinoids and all these really really cool things that I got to learn about in addition to how to grow.
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: That's just that sort of like holistic sense of everything.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: And then you start to add the human stories and yeah, so and that definitely comes across in the books as I read them, like that authenticity and the knowledge that you have, that you've gained from working in the LP as well.
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: But you also touch on a surprising number of topics and themes in like a really subtle way, and you just mentioned them briefly.
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: Some of the ones that come off the top of my head are, like you've mentioned briefly, polyamory and like, like the LGBTQ community and like all these different, like literary nuances.
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: What were you hoping to achieve just by dropping in some of these little, these little things, these little themes?
• 19:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there's so many overlaps when it comes to cannabis and social issues.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I guess you'd call them, and I'm I definitely deliberately didn't want to shy away from those.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: I wanted to sort of embrace it and be like, okay, how does that?
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: And also based on my experience, like I don't I'm not a member of a lot of the communities that I have commented on, but I definitely like have touchstones in those communities or have experiences where I came across people or have known people who work in cannabis, who you know share those identities, and I observed some really interesting things or talk to them and you know learned from them about some interesting overlaps.
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: You know learned from them about some interesting overlaps.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: For instance, like there's the, the.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: There's a store where two people who are, I guess, two people who are trans technically would I just call them the people who don't identify with any particular gender pronouns, so they go with the like they, them thing, and so that is actually based on an experience I had where I was in.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: So I would go and do pop ups anywhere.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: If you invited me or if you'd have me and you sold our product, I'll show up, because it wasn't always about like people were like, why do you go to a pop up in a small town?
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: There's hardly any, hardly any people there and it's like, yeah, but the bud tenders are there and I want them to get passionate about our product and I want to create a relationship there and the more that they know about us and see me talking to customers about it and hear me talking to customers about it, the better they'll be at selling our product.
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: So I was, anywhere this one town I went to, it was like this the, the, the store was like this little oasis of, like, acceptance and coolness and pump like a comfort zone for people who had all sorts of, you know, identities that wouldn't have maybe fit in very well, let's say, in a small Mennonite town.
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: So and I was like, and also then like, like also I at the time I was hearing things, um, like research coming through about how, you know, the job market is incredibly difficult for people with those identities and stuff like that, like I think that there was something that came out that said that people who checked that, the non-binary box on the census, the canadian census I think the last census was the first time you could check that box so they were able to see like how that works their their average income was fifteen thousand dollars oh wow, that is right.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: So that was shocking.
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: I was like wait a second, those blood tenders, they're rocking it.
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: Those blood tenders are loving life.
• 22:12
  Speaker 2: They, they are living in a society where, most of the time, they're being denied the chance to work at all because of how?
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: Probably because of stigmatization about how they present.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And now they're in a cannabis store kicking ass.
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: They were like the best bud tenders, like they knew everything.
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: And I remember thinking, wow, what would these people be doing if they weren't here?
• 22:32
  Speaker 2: Like, what would that be like for them?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: And so that's why I brought that.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: That's why I created that chapter was because I'm like, I'm going to celebrate that.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, it's not just for the sake of doing it or for the sake of like whatever, seeing how people react, or anything like that.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: It was just a cool story that kind of warmed my heart and I wanted to include it.
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: I wanted to, I wanted to explore it in a literary way.
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: To explore it in a literary way which, by the way, was also something because I'm a grammar nerd and the whole like they, them.
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: I'm like wait a second, that's plural.
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: How are we going to work that?
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: How would you write a story about people if that was their pronoun?
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: That was actually one of the reasons.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I was like let's try this.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: So turned out it wasn't a problem at all.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you do it in such a smart way that I just have to commend you for that, because it stood out to me and like it's done in such an accepting way too.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: So you're normalizing these things and they're just little tidbits too right, like it's not, like it's rife with all this um, all these touchstones, as you mentioned, but it's just done in such a lovely way that it stood out to me.
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: So, thanks, I appreciate that.
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah there's some of them that are more than others, like obviously, like um, like native dispensaries, like that's a that's a big cannabis issue.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: But it's a it's it's the biggest issue in canada.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: Land back is the biggest issue to me in canada, and so that was a big overlap and that was more of a that was like a that was more an overtly political sort of right in that way but otherwise I do try and just sort of like dip my toe into the culture, into the issues, try and say, like what happens when we don't put a magnifying glass over this and fetishize it?
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: What if we treat it like it's normal?
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: What if we, you know, just accept and explore and don't be afraid?
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah well, it's so well done.
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: And just to also go back to the fact that you're doing pop-ups in small towns, as someone who used to work in a dispensary in you know, peterborough is not a big city or anything, but sometimes trying to get brand reps to come out of Toronto to like visit our store was maybe a little difficult, like pulling teeth a little bit.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: So I can only imagine that not only the bud tenders would appreciate you doing a pop-up in their small town, but a lot of the customers too, because they often don't get a chance to experience, you know, interacting with brand reps directly because they're so reluctant to like leave the big city with all the people well, and there's so much travel involved as a brand rep that yeah, really uh, and like 600, 1600 stores in ontario right yeah, and so crazy yeah the bigger companies have the budget to.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: You know, have a northern territory rep and a eastern, western, whatever, and I was just the rep for basically all of canada, for both of the brands that I was being the brand ambassador for um, and so you get spread pretty thin.
• 25:14
  Speaker 2: It's funny because I know the store that you worked for in Peterborough because it had a great reputation as the best store among that chain and I was just about to.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: We had a partnership with that chain.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: I was just about to go out there and do one right when my time ended.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we might have met sooner, who knows?
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we just met by happenstance in a whole other way, which was actually quite lovely too.
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: But is there anything that you are hoping that readers take away from your books?
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: I really hope that, that they enjoyed the stories as stories, as fun stories, to to hopefully have a bit of a voice, especially like, say, someone like you who happens to be my perfect reader because you love cannabis, you've been part of the industry and you like reading.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of people who are like, tell me when it comes out on Netflix or tell me when it's an audio book, and that's cool because that just makes me try and get those to work too.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: But what I hoped was for to have really fun and entertaining stories weaved into the experience of hearing stories about what you have gone through or that I want people in the cannabis industry to think somewhere along the line, to have some sort of like, wow, like that.
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: I totally relate to that.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Right, like I think someone um oh, it was one of the comments on amazon um said I read a lot of books, and I've read a lot of books and usually I do it as an escape from my reality, and this is actually the first book I've ever read that is about my reality oh cool that's just the best comment.
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: I thought that was so cool, yeah yeah, now has, and I wouldn't be surprised if it hadn't.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: But did your perspective on cannabis evolve at all during the writing process?
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: It did.
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: I don't know if it was because of the writing process, because so much happened as part of my job and in the industry over that time, so I started writing in.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: What was it?
• 27:21
  Speaker 2: I guess I was going to say December 2022, but really it was.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: I'm going to put the like, because you sort of start with notes and stuff like that, but when it's like, okay, we're starting with this book, I'd say it was very early in 2023, at which time I was working for a independent LP.
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: That was, you know, on the right trajectory.
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: You know, sales were going up, our product was getting attention, we were known for our growing format, which was super cool and innovative, and so that was where I was when I was, when I wrote the first book.
• 27:56
  Speaker 2: And then, by the time the second book came along, that company had been sold to a shareholder owned company with a board and CEOs and shit like that, and suddenly everything changed.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: It was like, all of a sudden, it was way more about the brand, which, as a marketing person that was cool I was, I was up for that, and but more about like, about the deals with the big chains and stuff like that, and way less about the product.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: Like I was finding myself in pop-ups with these strains that had been given names that were like related to snoop dogs.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: There was a little bit of a snoop relationship there and I was like, okay, that's great, we're going to call it this, but what is the actual weed?
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: And they couldn't tell me.
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm like you have me out in a pop-up showing people weed, telling them it's like low rider weed or whatever.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: That's not what it was called, but whatever Some snoopalicious name, and you're not even going to tell me what the genetics are.
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: So, like what do you want me to talk to people about?
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: So they're like, oh well, you can talk to them about whatever the brand.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that was quite disappointing for me and that was only the beginning, because not naming the weed was like the best of the mistakes that that company made.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: That company doesn't exist anymore.
• 29:13
  Speaker 2: It's bankrupt now, and so it was funny because I was writing about that happening in the book, but it wasn't really.
• 29:20
  Speaker 2: I was already planning on doing that and I wasn't planning on my company taking the nosedive that it did, because that corporation that bought us then went bankrupt along with all of us.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: And then the lp I worked for got sold and I was I was still a an employee of the bankrupted company.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: So, anyway, it was a mess and so, yes, my view on we did change over that period very much, and it was so funny because I was writing things in the second book that eventually, like happened.
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: I was like okay.
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess it's interesting that you mentioned about how they weren't really sure what the genetics were of the way that you're trying to promote at a pop up, because it just it just shows how much more savvy a lot of the customers are that they're trying to sell to, like especially it's been, you know, people who've been in the cannabis industry or not industry, but sorry, like just consuming cannabis for a long time and they're familiar with these things.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: They want to know what it is that they're smoking.
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: And maybe there's a lot of cannabis curious people who are, who are new to it, that maybe aren't as familiar with the strain name, cultivar names.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just interesting that a lot of these big corporate companies maybe don't totally understand the cannabis consumer as well as they think they do.
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: And that's probably also because they don't understand it nearly as well either.
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: Like the suits versus, you know somebody who's been steeped in the cannabis world for a long time.
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: Exactly, exactly.
• 30:47
  Speaker 2: I loved the educational approach to marketing.
• 30:50
  Speaker 2: I thought it was fantastic, it's great, it was, it was beautiful.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: It was like we were still we've been so in the dark about the information about this product that we love, or this, this plant that we love, and now we can talk about it and we can go down those rabbit holes and so many people did, and it was so fun.
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: And then then all of a sudden, it's like oh, forget all that, we're going to.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: You know, we're going to get a celebrity on board and that's what we eat.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: And sometimes people walked into my pop-ups and they're like, oh my God, this, this brand, is amazing.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: I'm going to buy every and ask what it is, just because they want the t-shirt or whatever.
• 31:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and some people do buy that way, but a lot of the savvy consumers are not going to be satisfied with just the picture of a famous person on the package A hundred percent, a hundred percent.
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: Which is interesting Cause I didn't think that that was really like a very I didn't think they like.
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: As far as health Canada goes, it was very easy to actually do brand partnerships like that well, that was the thing.
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: So part of that, uh, transition to the shareholder owned company also meant that a whole bunch of our products were going for export so they signed the celebrity for to be like they were going to open up stores that had you know that person's name on the top in israel or whatever, um, or australia.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: A lot of our stuff went to australia, where they don't have those rules, so but it was very strange because it's like, well, we do have those rules, so I don't know how you want to deal with this, but it's kind of like a ball around your neck because you sort of like want to talk about it but you can't.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: And so, yeah, it was, it was, it was, it was awkward and it didn't work.
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: And it's like you end up paying 10 of your of your profits, I guess, or whatever, or your anyway, of your sales to this person and you can't even, you can't even put them on the package.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: Right, you have to do this like, pardon the pun, but this little dog whistle thing where you're like, um, you know, like if you know, you're gonna know that there's a relationship here, but if you don't, I'm not allowed to tell you so it's a if you know, you know, kind of thing which can work if the person is famous enough, I suppose.
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: But it's a gamble that obviously didn't pay off for this particular company.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: So with their marketing team and stuff like that and they just didn't get it.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Like they did not get the canadian side, like whatever, because there's all these separate rules up here and because there's a different culture up here.
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: So you know, I tell them like strain names are important and they say fuck you.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, well, that's why they don't exist anymore.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: And you're still here rocking it.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: So now the books that you've written.
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: You're a self-published author.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: What were some of the biggest lessons that you've learned about getting your work out into the world?
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's the hardest part.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: That's the hardest part, for sure.
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, you can write books and people can even like them, but getting them out into the world is really challenging.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Being signed by a publisher gives you is that network and that PR machine and, you know, into regular bookstores.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: So I'm still working on it.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: I've been saying this for years, but what my goal is is to get it.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: I'd rather have my book in cannabis stores than bookstores.
• 34:00
  Speaker 2: So at that point I was like, well, publishers don't really have those relationships really.
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: So, and I have good relationships in stores, so I have no excuse for my book not to be out in stores.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: But another thing when you self publish, it's a tough sell because people, anyone, can self publish.
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: I could have written a book that was complete gobbledygook, self published and be like I have this awesome book, and so when a publisher publishes it, they're like no, no, we've had editors look this over and we're saying that this is a book that the, that the public wants, right.
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: So there's that sort of like a little bit of credibility that comes with it.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: So at this point I'm still working on partnerships where, like I'd love, there's a couple of chains that I have relationships with, still that I would like to.
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: I'd like for them to put my book on their shelves or two books, I guess, on their shelves.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: So you know, this is like these conversations that we're having now really helped me, because I can be like no, look, this podcaster wrote read both books in a row and love them, I think.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: And so, um, no, I did, I really did, yeah.
• 35:04
  Speaker 1: You wouldn't be here if I didn't like them.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: So and so anyway.
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: So that's, that's a word of endorsement from someone who's, you know, really respected in the industry.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: So, as that happens more and more, I think that it'll be eventually easier for me to to get the book out there.
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: But really there's the.
• 35:21
  Speaker 2: The next sort of brass ring for me is to find stores that would be willing to put my books on their shelves right, like it, like independent bookstores.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: You're thinking uh, no cannabis or cannabis stores specifically.
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: Okay, I think it's a great spot to have those books too, because obviously people who are going into those stores are interested in weed.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: You would think so yeah, that's, that's a great idea, but I can imagine that it's difficult to be a one-man marketing team.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: It is, it is, yeah, it is.
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: And to be writing along the way.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: So, as I was writing the sequel, I was like, look, just don't worry about that, just focus on the sequel, don't worry about the marketing.
• 36:00
  Speaker 2: And now we're past that point.
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: Now the sequel is done.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: So now we're working on the screenplays and now we're past that point.
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: Now the sequel is done.
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, now I'm working on the screenplays, now the fun stuff comes.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'll ask you about that in a minute.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: But before we get into that, can you just walk us through your creative process?
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, that's a good question.
• 36:21
  Speaker 2: So I mentioned that I've been writing my whole life and there's different ways of approaching that, and so a lot of the times I was just sort of like experimenting with things.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: And you know, sitting down at night and writing something, starting something, maybe, leaving it, coming back to it, um, like I probably have a folder on my computer that has a whole graveyard of ideas that are great but never got followed through on um.
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: And so this time I'm like no, if we're doing this, we're doing this.
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: There's not going to be like you know little, let's try a chapter over here and try.
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: I'm like if we're doing this.
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: And so I was like well, what's that?
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: Like?
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: I was like it's like when a, when a band or a performer or a musician goes into a studio and they've rented that studio and they're paying money to be in that studio.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: So that's not the time for, like experimentation and for trying things out.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: That's the time for getting things down on tape and then editing later, right, so I would call it booking the studio.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: So I'd be like, yeah, I'm booking the studio.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: I'd say to my family.
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: I'm like, hey guys, book in the studio tonight, don't?
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: You know, don't bother me, I'm going to be in there and so, and I've created this really cool workspace for myself here, and so, yeah, I called it booking the studio, and then it would be each and then each story, because both of the books are sort of like populated by six or seven stories that are each chapter.
• 37:42
  Speaker 2: I called those the tracks, and so I thought of it as like a concept album, where I was like going into the studio dropping tracks that stand alone on their own Cause, you know, if you listen to, I guess people don't listen to CDs anymore but if you put it on, Spotify playlist.
• 37:57
  Speaker 2: You can pick a song and you can listen to that song on its own.
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: But back in the day, kids, we used to have these things called albums, and there were there was things called concept albums, where, yes, they had amazing individual songs, but together those songs created like this bigger meaning or this bigger story.
• 38:15
  Speaker 2: And so I thought of it as a concept album, where I had all these tracks that were very different, different genres, different approaches to writing, in the same way that someone who is really good at music could put down an album and have, like, different genres of music in the same album right and so, but together they might create something that as a whole, maybe, was even bigger than the sum of its parts.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I approached it as if, like you, if you're going in here, you're, you're recording this track and you're getting it done so, so that was my way to be productive and to keep everything moving forward.
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: I like the idea, too, that you were talking about like just that verbal kind of cue that now you're like you were down to work.
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: Like that was sort of your verbal cue.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: I'm booking this studio, which means I am.
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: This is undisturbed time.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: And did you have like a goal for yourself, like a certain number of words you wanted to write per per evening, or a?
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: Time that you sell specific amount of time.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: No, that's my new approach, though I've sort of just mentioned briefly that I'm working on screenwriting now, which is a.
• 39:21
  Speaker 2: It's a very different experience for me and I'm learning a lot about the difference between writing for the screen and writing for the page.
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Um and one of the um screenwriters who I was watching giving advice said that she just she makes sure that she gets four to five pages done a day.
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: Right, this is a really successful screenwriter.
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: I was like four or five pages done a day, that's nothing.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Because screenwriting too, like if you're talking four or five pages of like novel text, you know you're getting into like you know over a thousand words, which is nothing to shake a stick at If you're sitting down to write, I would, I would try myself to get like a little bit more than that If I'm, if I'm, putting in a session.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: But then I was like oh man, wait, if you do four to five pages of a screenplay per day, then 10 days later you have 50 pages done in.
• 40:11
  Speaker 2: A screenplay is only about 150 pages.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: So you're talking about like not that I want to rush things, but like if you do stick to that schedule, that little drop in the ocean, drop in the bucket turns into a screenplay really quickly and so so yeah, that was sorry, I forget what the question was.
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: I think it was just part of the creative process and just about oh, I guess I was asking I forgot for a second.
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: To that happens, a couple of stoners get together but the creative process around like well, how many time?
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Or words you might dedicate to a session, because I have heard popular authors as well say they aim for like a minimum of a thousand words a day, and maybe the screenwriter that you're referring to four to five pages a day.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: That was sort of like a minimum yeah and because I'm assuming, some days it's really easy to get to those four or five pages or those thousand words and, and I bet, other days it feels like it's impossible.
• 41:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely I was.
• 41:14
  Speaker 2: I worked.
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: It's interesting.
• 41:16
  Speaker 2: I'm definitely not comparing myself to Nobel prize winning author Alice Monroe.
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: But I thought it was fascinating.
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: She died recently and all this other stuff has come up.
• 41:29
  Speaker 2: Besides all that, she's an amazing writer.
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: She's actually from where I am right now.
• 41:33
  Speaker 2: She's from this neck of the woods, southwestern.
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: Ontario.
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: And again she won the Nobel Prize for Literature Like that's freaking huge for short stories.
• 41:40
  Speaker 2: And it turns out that when you found out about her and her life, the reason she wrote short stories was because she was like a really busy working mom and so she could only write at night, which is when I write.
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I wrote after my family went to bed, so my writing time usually starts at 9 or 9.30 and takes me to about 2 am, and so she wrote stories.
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: Because short stories, because she didn't have time to sit all day and write really big narratives, and so because her work structure was segmented like that, the work she produced was segmented like that, which I thought was super cool when I found that out Because, as you know, like my, my book is a book, but it's also a whole bunch of stories too breaking them into those digestible bits made it easier for me to be, you know, driving forward, because, as I'm working on executing those stories at night, I can also be taking notes all day.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: When you're driving around all day as a brand rep, you take a lot of oh sorry, I guess I do know how to.
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: I would take notes on my watch while I was driving, right, and so you get a lot of time to just think.
• 42:51
  Speaker 2: You know, I'd spend a lot of my time driving around from place to place, without even having the radio on or a podcast or anything, just thinking about what I was going to write about that night or thinking about whatever you know stories that come into your head, and so that was a real meditative time for me, to be able to sort of spend during the day thinking about things and reflecting on things and then, like I said, but when you're in the studio you're dropping tracks.
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: Right, yeah, because that's why you're there.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that.
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: Now, is there any part of the writing process that brought you the most joy?
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
• 43:25
  Speaker 2: So another sort of trick I have in my tool belt is augmented reality, which is something I started doing pre-covid and then, during covid, I had a good chance to figure out how all that worked.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: Um, so augmented reality is when you take one piece of media.
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: The way I use it is where you take one piece of sort of fixed media and turn it into something dynamic.
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: So in the case of my book, I was able to take pictures.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Well, in the case of the first book, it's like the department, I guess, the signs for each department, and then you go to a QR code which in the first book, is at the beginning, and if you view that page I just showed you that said nursery through your phone, after opening that QR code, it turns it into a video, as I hope you experience.
• 44:23
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I've watched all the augmented reality pieces in both books they were.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: That was such a fun little like I shouldn't say little.
• 44:30
  Speaker 1: I'm sure that was a lot of work to put together too, but that was a fun addition to both of those books.
• 44:34
  Speaker 2: Well, it was super cool Cause it meant I could like add a little short film, basically.
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, each chapter, and with the first one I had fun sort of to spoofing the whole Justin Trudeau legalization thing by having Justin Trudeau as the zigzag man, as my little character, um and uh.
• 44:51
  Speaker 2: In the second one I went all in on what we just talked about, that whole celebrity thing, and made it like this hidden easter egg where all these celebrities came out and made a little ditty about um, about the, the brand.
• 45:03
  Speaker 2: So yeah, that was really fun yeah so when people even tell me that it worked for them, like you just did, I'm like awesome, because people aren't used to bringing their phones to to the to the table when they're reading a novel you know some people are like, ew, I don't want to do that.
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: I'm like, please, just make sure, just try it, it'll work for you.
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: yeah, but it was just like, like certain sections of the book, you didn't have to have your phone beside you the whole time.
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: And I mean, let's be honest, in this cell phone culture, we all have our phones beside us all the time anyway, so you, know to pick it up while you're reading a book isn't that big of a stretch, but it was a really nice addition.
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: Thanks and yeah, so that what just happened there that was that makes it.
• 45:41
  Speaker 2: That was the fun part was seeing people's reactions and people saying, oh my God, this is the crazy thing, like.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: I've been working on augmented reality since like 2018.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: And I'm so surprised it's not more of a thing.
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: I'm delighted because it means that I have expertise in things that other people don't know about, but I'm telling you, margaret, give it.
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: I've been saying this for years sooner or later, people are going to be wearing glasses that look just like the glasses that you're wearing now and they're going to be able to see that augmented reality content just through their glasses, because it's an overlay, it's not people often get it confused with virtual reality, which is where you're like, oh, I can you know?
• 46:18
  Speaker 1: yeah, like you're immersed all the world, yeah augmented reality.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: It's just an overlay over what's already there, and so it's ready, and there's a couple of really exciting projects and inventions that are coming through for those glasses.
• 46:32
  Speaker 2: Um, that is going to make it so you can just read the book with your glasses and, all of a sudden, something's going to pop up at you and it's going to be like oh my god, that next page that I turned to is a video or a 3d object or an animation, whatever.
• 46:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's kind of cool.
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: I'll have to watch for that, because I do follow some of that stuff a little bit.
• 46:49
  Speaker 1: I find it interesting, but if that was one of the things that brought you joy, when you're writing the book, there's always a flip side.
• 46:55
  Speaker 1: So what challenged you the most during the process of writing your books and how did you push through?
• 47:03
  Speaker 1: Because I have heard from many authors that writing a book is one of the hardest things you ever do in your entire life.
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and rewarding for sure, yeah.
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: So the second book, that the sequel.
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: When I wrote the first book, I wasn't like okay, and then in the sequel that I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to like set this up for the sequel, going to like set this up for the sequel, you know, even the even like, there's one character whose dying words suggest that there's more action to come, but that wasn't the plan, right?
• 47:36
  Speaker 1: yeah?
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: you know, and then it was like oh whoa, those dying words are ominous, we can take that and run with it in the second book.
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: And so the second book takes that and really goes with it.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: But, um, the second book was never a given, or ever even like.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: I imagine someone like the guy well, no, sorry, that's not true I was gonna say the guy who wrote um game of thrones, you know, he was like writing with the idea that like I'm gonna start way over here and then take it way over here.
• 48:03
  Speaker 1: But I don't think he did that either, because he hasn't even finished his last book yet I know, and that's a series of books I've actually never read because I heard from too many people that it's not like I've watched the series.
• 48:15
  Speaker 1: It's great, but the books are maybe not as easily put together.
• 48:20
  Speaker 1: I mean, it's a huge story, so not surprising, but yeah right.
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: So yeah, maybe.
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: So that author is probably the same where they're like oh, let's just write and tell stories and then maybe we can make connections later yeah but, sometimes those connections didn't happen from people that I know that read the books they'd be like you know, finish this storyline or like this character, just kind of he stops talking about them or you know that kind of stuff.
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: So I was like maybe I'll skip this series, but yeah, it's a lot to go into yeah, yeah, yeah um, yeah so.
• 48:50
  Speaker 2: So, um, I would say taking on the second project was, was, um was probably the toughest decision, but it wasn't that tough.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: I, I was, you know, after you've, after you've finished working on something for like over a year or longer really, because there was a lot of storytelling that sort of led up to that that I synthesized into that, you're like, oh man, I'm so glad it's over, I can't wait to move on to the next thing.
• 49:21
  Speaker 2: But then it's like, well, the next thing is going to be a connected thing.
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: So, anyways, that was, I guess, a hurdle that I overcame.
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't call it that.
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: It wasn't that difficult, though I'm pretty passionate about this one.
• 49:33
  Speaker 1: So right, yeah, well, that's fair Now, do you have any favorite books or like any all time favorite authors that you like to recommend to people?
• 49:46
  Speaker 2: Yes, definitely.
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I recommend them to people, but I definitely have my authors that I'm passionate with.
• 49:52
  Speaker 2: I'm a diehard, lifelong Irvin Welsh fan, so the writer of Trainspotting.
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: But he's got a whole bunch of other stuff that he's written since Trainspotting and my favorite stuff that he wrote was his short fiction that he published around the time of Trainspotting.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: So he's that he wrote was his short fiction that he published around the time of Trainspotting.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: So he's got a collection of short stories called Ecstasy and another collection of short stories called the Acid House and I loved those.
• 50:17
  Speaker 2: Those continue to be some of my favorite things.
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, a lot of Irvin Welsh.
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: And then there's another Irish author that I've become familiar with in like the past, maybe like five years, who I love.
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: His name is Kevin Barry.
• 50:33
  Speaker 2: He wrote a great book called Beetlebone.
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: That was from the perspective of John Lennon, who knew he bought like a tiny island when he was at the height of his like wealth and popularity in like Galway Bay or somewhere in Ireland.
• 50:48
  Speaker 2: He bought this little island and so it's this like fictional story of him going to see that island and it's totally awesome, um, and he's and he's written some other incredible books as well.
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: Um, he's his most recent book, the Heart in Winter.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: If you ask me about a book that I wish I read, sorry, that I wish I wrote.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: Heart sorry that I wish I wrote.
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: Heart in Winter is a perfect book.
• 51:09
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: It has nothing to do with read, but he's an incredible writer.
• 51:14
  Speaker 1: We can't read about weed all the time you have to read about weed.
• 51:19
  Speaker 1: And I have to admit that question was maybe a little selfish, because I love discovering new authors from people who love to read, so that was probably more for me than anybody else, but thank you for indulging me.
• 51:30
  Speaker 2: Kevin Berry check it out, because I've never met anyone else.
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: Who knows about him other than my Irish friend?
• 51:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah?
• 51:36
  Speaker 1: And I also think that the book of short stories is often overlooked as well as a literary format.
• 51:41
  Speaker 1: I do enjoy reading short stories, so I will definitely check out Irving Welsh too.
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: Like I've, I do enjoy reading short stories, so I will definitely check out Irving Welsh too.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: So, thank you for that.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Now, what about cannabis books?
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: If you could recommend a cannabis book to a cannabis lover or the can of curious, because they may or may not be the same and besides your own, what would it be?
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: See, that's funny that you just made the distinction between cannabis books and non-cannabis books, because what I would recommend wouldn't be considered.
• 52:08
  Speaker 2: Like, I don't think the word cannabis is ever mentioned in his works, but it's a collection of short stories.
• 52:12
  Speaker 2: As you can tell, I'm big on the short stories I always have been and so the master of the short story is Jorge Luis Borges, from Argentina.
• 52:22
  Speaker 2: Okay, his books are incredible.
• 52:23
  Speaker 2: They are amazing to read stone.
• 52:24
  Speaker 2: He's like a magic realist, and so his books are incredible.
• 52:25
  Speaker 2: They are amazing to read stone.
• 52:27
  Speaker 2: He's like a magic realist, and so his books are magic.
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: his books are incredible and what was that name again?
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: uh, jorge j-o-r-g-e, luis l-u-i-s borges b-o-r-g-S.
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: Perfect, I will check that out too.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: I think some people manage with Jorge because of Jorge Cervantes as well.
• 52:54
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he'd be like that.
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: Gabriel Garcia Marquez, cervantes, like that whole sort of just like.
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: I don't know what it is about those authors, but they're able to.
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean Don Quixote's, about that, about having a, a fictional life that becomes your life, and it's so much more interesting than the real world.
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Um, yeah, but borges is incredible.
• 53:15
  Speaker 2: He, he's all about like.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: He's very meta.
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: He's all about like you know, like, and this is pothead stuff.
• 53:22
  Speaker 2: This is the kind of stuff that you talk about when you're stoned.
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: It's like oh, there's one book about this, this map of the world that's to scale okay right think about yeah, yeah what library is that going to be in?
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: it's right covers the whole world.
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that is.
• 53:39
  Speaker 2: All these little ideas like that that are like yeah yeah, that's great.
• 53:45
  Speaker 1: So I'll check that out, because I can also add these into the show notes of this episode when it comes out as well, so anybody listening who's interested in checking out these authors will be able to find them easily.
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: Now back to your own books, have you?
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: You've probably received a lot of feedback from your books so far.
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: Has there been any that have surprised you, and what kind of feedback have you gotten?
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: none that have surprised me.
• 54:09
  Speaker 2: No, I would say the surprises would be when I don't hear back from people or when I'm not sure if they've even read the book.
• 54:17
  Speaker 2: Those have surprised me sometimes, but I don't again.
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: I reading my book is a voluntary experience, so if if someone has bought my book or doesn't want to buy my book, or hasn't read it or has read it, I'm always delighted that someone has even read it.
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: And I haven't had I can't think of any negative feedback that I've had, which but then when you're a writer, well, at least with me, I'm like, well, that's because they're just being polite and they don't want to tell me, yeah.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: But, that's why every time someone like you says that you really liked it genuinely and that it was good, it's like oh my God, they liked it, they really liked it.
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: So because I'm always worried that there's these like haters in the background.
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: But I don't think there is.
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: I think most of the people who picked up my book did enjoy it.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: So so you know, there hasn't been anything.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: The surprises for me are when people say I read it and I loved it.
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: That's when it's like, oh my god, that's amazing, right.
• 55:12
  Speaker 1: So now that you have, you've had these two books out for a little bit.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: What's next for you creatively?
• 55:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you've touched a little bit on the screenplay, so feel free to talk more about that, but yeah, so, um, I have connected with some I guess you'd call them producer director people.
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: They they have a production company.
• 55:29
  Speaker 2: They signed an option on the books so that they have the right to sort of like work with me to create a sorry that sounds like I got paid, but I didn't To work with me on converting or transforming these stories into something that's going to work on the screen.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: Whether that is a, this also goes back to my, my influences.
• 55:55
  Speaker 2: I love the White Lotus.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: That's my like guilty pleasure.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a great series.
• 56:01
  Speaker 1: I love it too, it's so good, it's so good.
• 56:03
  Speaker 2: And so when I started in January 2023, it's no coincidence that the second I think it was the second season of the White Lotus ended in December 2022, it's no coincidence that the second I think it was the second season of the white Lotus ended in December 2022.
• 56:15
  Speaker 2: Cause I was like that's it.
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: That's how I'm going to do this.
• 56:17
  Speaker 2: I'm going to use a genre, I'm going to use a murder mystery and that's how I'm going to tell all these stories about, you know, cannabis and all the other stories I have, right, and I'm going to have it so that there's all these characters and they all have their stories and that together there can be this overriding murder mystery that brings them all together.
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: And so that was a big influence on me, and so, in a way, it lends to the suitability for turning what I've done into a series, right, so if there's six stories in a book, funnily enough that could be a series, like an eight, an eight episode series.
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: So it might go that way, or I might just go like there's also pragmatism and what can actually get made.
• 57:00
  Speaker 2: My books are very as you know, I don't even have a publisher they're very indie, they're very low budget.
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: They're very just, like you know, sort of underground and grassroots, and so there's no reason why a film couldn't be made that taking the same approach.
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: So, and also in the books more in the first book than the second book but I really do explore genres of storytelling.
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: Like you know, one of them's a podcast and one of them's a film pitch and one of them's a play, and there's all these different genres and so now I'm like, okay, well, let's play with genres.
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: Now, what does this look like when it becomes an indie film that's actually like producible on a tight budget but still gets the the, the main stories across?
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: So that turns out that there's a lot more you have to show and not tell when you're doing, when you're writing for the screen.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: Right, my new mentors have been coaching me through that and it really changes everything.
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: It really does.
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's a whole different medium.
• 58:00
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, that's super exciting though, yeah thanks, thanks.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: It's.
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: It really brought to home how, how lucky, lucky we are as fiction writers, that, like, if you're a fiction writer you can be like, and then they go to like, then they have a DMT trip and they're going to another dimension, another space or whatever, but when you're making a movie about that, it's anyway, as I say, you're lucky when you're a film, sorry when you're a writer, because it's just about your imagination and the reader that the the stories go.
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: It would be really cool to see it on the big screen too, but of course I'd recommend anybody to read the books first, because the books are always better.
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, thanks, margaret.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's going to change, like there's there's going to be it's already turning into like more focused on like the visible environment in the lp because, like I want to have some eye popping visuals around like, yes, cannabis is legal, but look what has been going on when people have had unlimited budgets and like genetics have been able to like scientifically, be approached scientifically, and stuff like that.
• 59:25
  Speaker 2: So it's going to focus a lot on visually witnessing stuff like that and letting other people who haven't been behind the curtain of the LP to sort of like open it up and be like, wow, look what's going on here.
• 59:38
  Speaker 1: You know, it would be really interesting too and I won't spoil it for people who haven't read the book yet but to see the grow concept on the big screen.
• 59:48
  Speaker 1: That would be… we can talk about that Tent City, tent City, yeah, yeah.
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: Screen that would be.
• 59:52
  Speaker 1: We can talk about that tent city, yeah, yeah, I mean really cool to see tent city on the big screen yeah, yeah, I think so too.
• 59:57
  Speaker 2: I think so too it's going to be.
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: Uh, yeah, it's going to be.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking about that and the ways to do it that don't involve building it.
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, whatever building part of it, and anyways, again, I get way ahead of myself when I start thinking about the pragmatics of producing film, but apparently my mentors say it's an important thing to keep in mind, because you know if you write a big budget epic that is like on a shoestring budget you're going to have problems.
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 2: So anyways think of creative ways to tell that story, which could maybe involve animation or who knows?
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, technology these days.
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: It's certainly changed a lot.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: I know watching movies from my youth, it's shocking how much things have changed.
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: So the possibilities are endless.
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 1: But, steve, what would surprise people about you?
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 2: I think these days, when I tell people that I'm not working in the cannabis industry anymore, that surprises them, because I was so all in and so passionate for whatever my stint was there six or seven years, so I stopped working for, I guess, the regulated cannabis industry back when that company went bankrupt, which was in november, and so, yeah, I've been working on things that are actually not in the cannabis industry other than my writing.
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 2: So I want to be, I've decided that probably my best role I mean, I'm always open to everything and I need to feed my family, so work is good, but I've decided that, like, probably my best role is to be in the culture where I belong.
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: You know, maybe holding up a light occasionally to the industry to to show people where maybe we could do better, um, but also just telling those stories and being sort of like the, the, the person who's there to tell, to tell some of the stories from the industry, um, so, yeah, I think people would be surprised that I'm not actually in the industry anymore because I was up to my ears for so long.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: Other things?
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not sure.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I mean it is surprising you're not in the cannabis industry because you speak, so you speak so knowledgeably about it, but obviously you learned a ton while you're in it and you're still immersed in cannabis culture too.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: And I mean I could probably go back to the grow and try and get back into that like I did before, but that's, I feel like that.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 2: That phase of my life has passed.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: Yeah, those people are important and I give props to the people working in the grow.
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: That's not easy work, it's.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: It's farm work, it's factory work.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 2: It's a lot of the things that you know.
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: When you're a potter you're like oh my God, I'm going to go work in a weed factory.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: You know that.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: You're like, you know that.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 2: You know the gloss can come away a little bit.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: So, or lose its luster, I guess, is the word, and so I do give props to people who are working in weed, because they don't even get to smoke weed while they work.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 1: I know, yeah, the world has changed quite a bit.
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 1: Now, before we wrap up, steve, because I want to be mindful of your time, where can people find you and your books?
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 2: So find me on Instagram.
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: That's probably the best place.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 2: You can always message me on Instagram.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: So it's.
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: I was about to tell you my old LP handle.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: It's not that it was at sign.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 2: Death by canna, but no bis, just death by canna.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 2: C-a-n-n-a.
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 2: And yeah, I'm having some fun there with some augmented reality tricks that I still have.
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 2: I've decided to, I've decided to really like emphasize the augmented reality part of everything I do, because I think people don't.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: Well, a, not no one else seems to be doing it and B, I love it.
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: And C, it's a part of my book that is very unique to my books, and so I think it's time for me to just sort of like, you know, sort of toot that horn a little bit and have fun with it on social media, because you can have a lot of fun with it on social media.
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: So that's that.
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: Uh, then you can also check out my website.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: It's woefully.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, what's the saying that the cobbler's son has no shoes?
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: I'm the guy who's like telling green seal that they needed to keep their website up to date, and meanwhile I haven't even posted about the second book on my website yet.
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: So right you got to get into that, but anyway, there is some information on my website.
• 1:04:11
  Speaker 2: As far as the books themselves, as I mentioned, I really, really want to get them into stores, so if anyone out there wants to buy books to put on your shelves, get in touch.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 2: I'll give you a wholesale price.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: I found out that the markup on my books is actually better than the markup on most weed products, so you know, yeah, markup on weed is like remarkably for retail.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's remarkably light, like most retail.
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: It's like double or extra.
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 1: So I know, yeah, the margins are thin.
• 1:04:41
  Speaker 1: That's why it's it's crazy that we have 1600 stores still in ontario, but I know, I know a lot of them must be struggling.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: I know, and there's so much price compression happening too and really I think most of it's being absorbed by the margins on the LP side and on the retail side.
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: But with my book you can totally take my wholesale price and then double it to be the asking price, which is about $25 right now on Amazon, but Amazonca, but amazonca.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 2: You can get the book frigging tomorrow if you want.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 2: That's that's so publishing through Amazon definitely has its drawbacks in terms of like who you're getting into bed with, but at the same time it's been a dream.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: They did the whole publishing of the book, like I'm sorry I did it with them, they don't do it for you, you have to, of the book, like I'm sorry, I did it with them, they don't do it for you.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: You have to.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: If you're competent enough to like format a manuscript and get together cover art and all that other stuff, then you excuse me, you can publish pretty easily on Amazon and then, yeah, so amazonca.
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 2: Steve Stacy, death by cannabis or death by cannabis the re up.
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 1: It would be available in other countries too, though, right like amazoncom, yeah amazoncom.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: uh, anywhere that amazon has operation, you can buy the book exactly, yeah, yeah okay, that's awesome.
• 1:06:00
  Speaker 1: I will be sure to link to all that in the show notes too, so people can find that pretty easily and buy your book, because I think they should.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: I think everybody should read it and, steve, I just want to say thank you so much for your time today.
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 1: This has been a real pleasure.
• 1:06:13
  Speaker 2: Thanks, margaret, thanks for reading the books in the first place and thanks for everything you do.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: We didn't even talk about edibles.
• 1:06:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you know, that's OK.
• 1:06:21
  Speaker 2: Oh wait, I want to say one thing about edibles yeah, full spectrum, yes, all the way Full spectrum.
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: No dissy yeah that's awesome.
• 1:06:31
  Speaker 1: Thanks, Steve.
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 2: All right, margaret, thanks a lot.
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 1: Friends, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Steve as much as I did.
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: If you want to support an independent author, I'll link to his books in the show notes and where you can find Steve online, and we'll continue the conversation over the Bite Me Cannabis Club.
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 1: I hope you'll join us and until next time, my friends.