Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 480: Hollywood’s Book Whisperer Reveals Why Most Scripts Never Sell with Lane Shefter Bishop

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BPS 480: Hollywood’s Book Whisperer Reveals Why Most Scripts Never Sell with Lane Shefter Bishop · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the Bulletproof screen Writing Podcast, Episode number four eighty.
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Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast.
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Speaker 4: I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
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Speaker 2: Enjoy today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
1:38
Speaker 5: On this episode, we have the person they call Hollywood's
1:41
Speaker 5: book Whisper. Her new book, Seller's Story in a Single
1:44
Speaker 5: Sentence is out now, which is completely about log lines,
1:48
Speaker 5: which is something I need help with as well. With
1:50
Speaker 5: guests Lane Bishop, Hey, Lane, thank you very much for
1:54
Speaker 5: coming on the podcast.
1:55
Speaker 6: Hey, thanks for having me. Dave. I'm excited to be here.
1:57
Speaker 4: Oh, I'm excited to have you here.
1:58
Speaker 6: Lane.
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Speaker 5: You know, I was looking at your bio and you
2:01
Speaker 5: just created the book, you know, sell your story in
2:03
Speaker 5: a single Sentence. CNN calls you the book Whisper. You
2:06
Speaker 5: have all these amazing products coming on. Just great to
2:08
Speaker 5: have you come on, you know, the podcast. So, you know, Lane,
2:12
Speaker 5: just to get started, I wanted to ask you know,
2:14
Speaker 5: how did you get started in the film business.
2:17
Speaker 6: Uh, you know, I have.
2:18
Speaker 7: The most eclectic background of probably anyone in this industry.
2:23
Speaker 7: I was really you know, I didn't know which area
2:26
Speaker 7: I wanted to be in initially, so I I was
2:28
Speaker 7: a temp at different studios and I ended up tempting for, like,
2:32
Speaker 7: you know, some of the biggest names you could imagine.
2:35
Speaker 7: And at the time I didn't even realize that it
2:37
Speaker 7: was such a big deal. You know, I was working
2:39
Speaker 7: for the head of you know, Walt Disney Pictures. But
2:42
Speaker 7: it was really it was a great experience because I
2:44
Speaker 7: learned sort of literally every piece of how movies got made,
2:48
Speaker 7: all the drafts and all the notes, and it was
2:51
Speaker 7: just a.
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Speaker 6: It was a great learning experience for me.
2:53
Speaker 7: And during that time, I became a director, and I
2:57
Speaker 7: directed for fifteen years on and off, and whenever it
2:59
Speaker 7: was all I was temping again, and I ended up
3:02
Speaker 7: working at dream Works. I was like one of the
3:04
Speaker 7: first six people at dream Works. I was doing like
3:07
Speaker 7: contracts for animators. I mean, you name it, I've done it.
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Speaker 7: And then you know, I just I got to a
3:13
Speaker 7: point where I had spent you know, fifteen years as
3:15
Speaker 7: a director and I have an Emmy and I and
3:18
Speaker 7: I really felt like I got tired of waiting for
3:20
Speaker 7: the phone to ring.
3:21
Speaker 6: So I started to get into producing.
3:24
Speaker 7: And I met a guy who, you know, had a
3:26
Speaker 7: ton of money and just wanted to be in the industry.
3:29
Speaker 7: And he was like, you can do all the creative
3:31
Speaker 7: and I'll write the check. And you know, how do
3:32
Speaker 7: you say no to that? So, you know, in two
3:35
Speaker 7: thousand and six I started producing. And you know, I
3:38
Speaker 7: was a lit major before I went to USC Film School.
3:41
Speaker 7: My undergraduate degrees in literature and then my master's is
3:44
Speaker 7: in film, and so I started to sort of blend
3:47
Speaker 7: the two when I was working for him, and in
3:49
Speaker 7: those two years two thousand and six two thousand and
3:51
Speaker 7: eight that I was the EVP of TV and movies
3:54
Speaker 7: for him, I literally.
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Speaker 6: Ended up setting nothing, setting up at nothing but books.
4:00
Speaker 6: I mean, it was just weird.
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Speaker 7: Like I talked Santa Brown into coming back into the industry.
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Speaker 7: She's amazing, by the way, And so we became the
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Speaker 7: first company to do a feature film with Sandra Brown, and
4:10
Speaker 7: I set up three TV movies with ABC Family and
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Speaker 7: all this cool stuff was going on.
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Speaker 6: They were all books. I made a deal with Harlequin.
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Speaker 7: We became sort of their development arm at the time,
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Speaker 7: and you know, people thought Harlequin was like Bodice Ripper Fabio,
4:22
Speaker 7: and in fact they have eleven.
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Speaker 6: Imprints and only one of them is that.
4:26
Speaker 7: Just so I set up a lot of projects and
4:28
Speaker 7: I just didn't say it was Harlequin because the.
4:29
Speaker 6: Material was really great.
4:31
Speaker 7: And then end of two thousand and eight, the guy
4:34
Speaker 7: worked for was sort of like, well, I don't feel
4:37
Speaker 7: like producing.
4:38
Speaker 6: I think I want to be a screenwriter. I was like,
4:41
Speaker 6: oh no, uh so I was trying to fair what
4:45
Speaker 6: to do.
4:45
Speaker 7: You know, I was producing, I was directing, you know,
4:48
Speaker 7: what do I want to do? And I give all
4:50
Speaker 7: kudos to my husband who said, you know you're you're
4:52
Speaker 7: setting up a lot of stuff. Why don't you just
4:54
Speaker 7: keep doing book to screen? And I was like, wow,
4:57
Speaker 7: it's like the worst time at two thousand and eight,
5:00
Speaker 7: you know, height of the recession.
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Speaker 6: You know, bad time to start a company.
5:04
Speaker 7: But I thought, okay, I'll do it for a year
5:06
Speaker 7: and I started vast entertainment book to screen only, and
5:09
Speaker 7: I knew a lot of people in New York publishers, authors,
5:12
Speaker 7: so I thought I'll see what happens. And in that
5:15
Speaker 7: year it was like crazy. I think I set up
5:17
Speaker 7: like twelve book projects and I thought, okay, well that's working.
5:23
Speaker 7: So that became sort of my bread and butter, and
5:26
Speaker 7: you know, it's morphed a little as time's gone on,
5:29
Speaker 7: because first of all, nobody wanted to hear the Word
5:32
Speaker 7: Book in two thousand and eight because three hundred pages,
5:34
Speaker 7: you know, that was like so intimidating. So I slowly
5:37
Speaker 7: had to come up with ways of pitching this material
5:41
Speaker 7: without having them have to read a three hundred page book.
5:43
Speaker 6: And that's sort of where the genesis of sell your
5:45
Speaker 6: story in a single sentence came from.
5:48
Speaker 7: And I also, you know, had to figure out how
5:50
Speaker 7: to beat all the book scouts.
5:52
Speaker 6: So I ended up spending a lot.
5:53
Speaker 7: Of time in New York I still do, and really
5:56
Speaker 7: focusing on books before they became books. So I would
5:59
Speaker 7: say about ninety or set of what I set up
6:01
Speaker 7: is based on book proposals and partials like fifty to
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Speaker 7: one hundred pages. I just don't wait for the whole
6:06
Speaker 7: book because you know what, everything's going to change during
6:08
Speaker 7: the adaptation process anyway, as it did for the Duff,
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Speaker 7: which was the very first thing I set.
6:13
Speaker 6: Up with McGee, So you know, it's it's just a.
6:16
Speaker 6: It's such a it's.
6:18
Speaker 7: A process of going from something that's on the page
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Speaker 7: is something on the screen, and no matter what, it's
6:22
Speaker 7: going to change. So so I just don't wait for
6:25
Speaker 7: the book anymore.
6:27
Speaker 6: And that's sort of how Vast has grown, you know.
6:31
Speaker 5: So I wanted to ask Leane, you know, how do
6:33
Speaker 5: you find the books that you want to that you
6:35
Speaker 5: want to sort of turn into movies or maybe even
6:37
Speaker 5: just you know, set up. How do you find the
6:39
Speaker 5: books that you know? Do you you have somebody that
6:41
Speaker 5: that sort of gives you recommendations or are you always
6:43
Speaker 5: at like a Barnes and Nobles or something look looking
6:46
Speaker 5: through the best seller section, you.
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Speaker 7: Know, because my company focuses on like pre publication material,
6:52
Speaker 7: I get everything from author's agents in New York. I
6:56
Speaker 7: work with about sixty or sixty five now writers agents
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Speaker 7: that have New York and I go to New York
7:02
Speaker 7: about five times a year and I suit with them.
7:04
Speaker 6: I think face to face is really important.
7:06
Speaker 7: You know a lot of people they wait till the
7:08
Speaker 7: announcement comes out on publisher's marketplaces and they have their
7:10
Speaker 7: intern call and say, like, send us the galleys when
7:12
Speaker 7: it's ready.
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Speaker 6: And I just don't think that's the way to do it.
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Speaker 7: I think the way to do it is to go
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Speaker 7: out there and sit with them face to face and say,
7:19
Speaker 7: you know, what do you have coming down the pipe
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Speaker 7: that you're excited about that you haven't even gone out
7:23
Speaker 7: with yet.
7:24
Speaker 6: You know.
7:24
Speaker 7: That's where I get most of my material, and I
7:26
Speaker 7: have literally I set up a project with Peter Churnan
7:29
Speaker 7: on a hundred pages. I set up a project with
7:32
Speaker 7: Scott Stuber on eleven page book proposal.
7:34
Speaker 6: I just have a project.
7:35
Speaker 7: With Joel Silver that literally came from an agent calling
7:39
Speaker 7: me saying, hey, my author just sent me this idea
7:42
Speaker 7: of some man she wants to write.
7:43
Speaker 6: It's only like twenty pages. Let me send it to you.
7:45
Speaker 7: And I read it and I called her and said,
7:47
Speaker 7: have her write this right now, because I can set
7:49
Speaker 7: this up on these twenty pages, which I did with Joel.
7:51
Speaker 7: So it's it's just one of these things where you
7:54
Speaker 7: never know what when you're going to hear it. I
7:56
Speaker 7: read everything myself. I get about nine hundred books a year,
7:59
Speaker 7: so I do a lot of reading, and a lot
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Speaker 7: of them are unfinished, which is how I like it.
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Speaker 6: I like things really early because if the.
8:06
Speaker 7: Concept is good if I can sell it in a sentence,
8:09
Speaker 7: you know, I can sell it.
8:10
Speaker 6: Yeah.
8:11
Speaker 5: And you know that's something I wanted to get into too,
8:12
Speaker 5: because you just wrote the book. You know, sell your
8:14
Speaker 5: story in a single sentence. And I think it's so important, Lane,
8:17
Speaker 5: because you know, there's so many times that I've had
8:20
Speaker 5: screenwriters and these just sort of you know, they say, oh,
8:22
Speaker 5: I can't really summon up in a sentence. You know,
8:24
Speaker 5: my story is so complex, you know, and there's so
8:26
Speaker 5: many things going on, and you know, I'm sure when
8:29
Speaker 5: you know obvious, when you're hearing this too, you're probably thinking, well,
8:31
Speaker 5: you don't know what your story's about then, right, right,
8:33
Speaker 5: So imagine pitching to a manager or an agent or
8:36
Speaker 5: a studio and just saying, oh, well, I can't really
8:39
Speaker 5: say what it's about, you know, so if you have
8:41
Speaker 5: to read, you'll have to read this to actually understand.
8:44
Speaker 5: So you know, what was sort of the impetus for
8:47
Speaker 5: you to create, you know, to write the book, you know,
8:49
Speaker 5: sell your story in a single sentence.
8:51
Speaker 7: I had been talking about this at writers conferences around
8:55
Speaker 7: the country, around the world. I was at the London
8:58
Speaker 7: Book Fair. I have talking about how to create this
9:02
Speaker 7: logline this selling sentence for years, probably six years now,
9:06
Speaker 7: and at the end of each one of these little
9:08
Speaker 7: seminars I always have obviously authors and screenwriters coming up
9:12
Speaker 7: and saying, do you have a book?
9:13
Speaker 6: Do you have a book? You know? And the answer
9:14
Speaker 6: is no. And then at my last seminar and Boston
9:18
Speaker 6: a year ago or so, a friend of mine who's
9:21
Speaker 6: one of the agents I work with, Catherine Sands, came
9:24
Speaker 6: up to me in front of this line of people
9:26
Speaker 6: and said, yes, she does have a book. It was like,
9:30
Speaker 6: what are you doing? And she said to me, Laane,
9:33
Speaker 6: all these people are asking you for a book.
9:35
Speaker 7: You have to write this. And I said, I don't
9:38
Speaker 7: have time to write this. And she browbeat me and said,
9:41
Speaker 7: yes you do. And I give her full credit because
9:43
Speaker 7: she also got into one of the you know, biggest
9:46
Speaker 7: global publishers in.
9:46
Speaker 6: The world, Norton, which is amazing.
9:49
Speaker 7: And really it was it wasn't as hard to write
9:52
Speaker 7: as I thought because I had spoken on it for
9:54
Speaker 7: so long. I really developed this system for how to
9:58
Speaker 7: create that sentence.
10:00
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
10:06
Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
10:09
Speaker 6: How do you get a three hundred page book? Down
10:11
Speaker 6: into something you can sell.
10:12
Speaker 7: So it was all a matter of just getting it
10:14
Speaker 7: on paper, you know, because I've been speaking about it
10:16
Speaker 7: forever and you know, to me, the big thing is
10:20
Speaker 7: I always tell writers who like but everything's important and
10:23
Speaker 7: it's my baby, And I said, look, you know, if
10:25
Speaker 7: you can't get someone to read it, it doesn't do
10:27
Speaker 7: you any good at all. So the goal is to
10:31
Speaker 7: figure out what's most unique about your work, what is
10:34
Speaker 7: the most unique thing about it, because that's what's going
10:37
Speaker 7: to sell it. That's what a log line is. It's
10:39
Speaker 7: one sentence highlighting what's most unique about your work. Because
10:43
Speaker 7: everyone wants something new and different in flavor of the
10:45
Speaker 7: month and shiny new toy. You know, nobody wants something
10:48
Speaker 7: that they feel like they've heard before. So I'll give
10:51
Speaker 7: you my favorite example. I was brought a book really long,
10:56
Speaker 7: I think it was almost four hunder pages. This woman
10:58
Speaker 7: and it's her life story, it's a real story. And
11:00
Speaker 7: she was into drugs and her boyfriend was into drugs,
11:02
Speaker 7: and you know, they went to prison and she was
11:04
Speaker 7: a drug mule and all this stuff. And I said
11:06
Speaker 7: to her, like, I feel like I've seen this, I
11:08
Speaker 7: feel like, you know, it's like the movie Traffic, Like
11:10
Speaker 7: there's you know.
11:11
Speaker 6: What's different, Give me specifics.
11:14
Speaker 7: I'm always saying that, be more specific, because you know,
11:16
Speaker 7: what makes it unique is the specifics. And after you know,
11:20
Speaker 7: hours and days of you know, slogging through this material
11:22
Speaker 7: and talking to her, and you know, ultimately I came
11:25
Speaker 7: up with a log line which will show you how
11:26
Speaker 7: powerful these things are. The log line is it's the
11:29
Speaker 7: story of a woman who at only nineteen became a
11:33
Speaker 7: ran the biggest drug cartel in US history. So you
11:38
Speaker 7: have that as you're selling sentence, a pretty good chance
11:41
Speaker 7: I can set that up.
11:42
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, and when you just mentioned that log
11:44
Speaker 5: line too, you know, that's even seems like something that
11:47
Speaker 5: you know actors will be going after because you know,
11:49
Speaker 5: and talking with you know, all the screenwriters and producers
11:52
Speaker 5: on this podcast and even off the podcast, you know
11:54
Speaker 5: usually that that's the two big things that producers ask about, right,
11:58
Speaker 5: is what's it about?
11:59
Speaker 4: And who's storing in it?
12:00
Speaker 6: Yep, yep. And believe me, it applies to everything.
12:03
Speaker 7: You can come up with a log line as a writer,
12:06
Speaker 7: as an actor, if you're a businessman selling a new business,
12:09
Speaker 7: I mean, anything you're selling can be crafted into a
12:14
Speaker 7: log line and should be because look, the minute is
12:16
Speaker 7: a writer. For example, the minute you say I'm a writer,
12:18
Speaker 7: what's the first question they're gonna say, well, what are
12:20
Speaker 7: you working on?
12:21
Speaker 6: What are you writing? It's the first question. You better
12:23
Speaker 6: have a great answer.
12:25
Speaker 5: This is also something to I've found lame is you know,
12:28
Speaker 5: people do want to inject their own lives into their screenplays,
12:31
Speaker 5: you know, and usually you know, when they say things
12:33
Speaker 5: like that, like hey, this really happened to me in
12:35
Speaker 5: real life. Usually, you know, I always say it like, well,
12:38
Speaker 5: you know, I don't know if it would fit in
12:39
Speaker 5: this screenplay. Like, for instance, I had a friend of
12:41
Speaker 5: mine and he everything always happened in his life. He
12:44
Speaker 5: would turn into like the screenplay, and finally he wrote
12:47
Speaker 5: one and it was like a hodgepodge of everything that's
12:49
Speaker 5: like happened to him in the past like three years.
12:53
Speaker 5: And I said, do you really feel like this is
12:55
Speaker 5: enough to carry a screenplay? Just sort of having all
12:58
Speaker 5: these scenes and stuff. And you know, one of the
13:00
Speaker 5: best pieces of writing advice I've ever been given was
13:03
Speaker 5: through your log line, you can extract everything from your story.
13:08
Speaker 5: So you know, when you do have something like that,
13:09
Speaker 5: like you get an idea like, hey, you know a
13:11
Speaker 5: guy meets a girl and the girl is a drug
13:14
Speaker 5: mule or something like that. You know, you can, you know,
13:17
Speaker 5: you have to take that concept turning into a log line,
13:20
Speaker 5: evolve that log line, and then you can extract your
13:22
Speaker 5: story from said log line.
13:23
Speaker 7: The log line actually is is absolutely true, can tell
13:27
Speaker 7: you what's missing from your screenplay. You know, I've I've
13:30
Speaker 7: spent so much time talking about the three main tents
13:32
Speaker 7: of a log line, which or who's your protagonist, what
13:34
Speaker 7: do they want?
13:35
Speaker 6: And what's at stake? And so many times what's at
13:37
Speaker 6: steak is missing?
13:39
Speaker 7: You know, they'll say, like, oh, it's about a queen
13:41
Speaker 7: who has to get back the stolen gold.
13:43
Speaker 6: For her country. Well why do I ge what happens
13:49
Speaker 6: if she doesn't?
13:50
Speaker 7: You know, So the log line actually can be really
13:53
Speaker 7: helpful in telling you what's missing from your screenplay. And also,
13:57
Speaker 7: you know, in what your example was with your friend
13:59
Speaker 7: is like, that's what I call an event to event
14:01
Speaker 7: to event screenplay.
14:02
Speaker 6: It's like, all this.
14:03
Speaker 7: Stuff happens and there's no reason why nobody cares. So,
14:07
Speaker 7: you know, without that motivating force the what do I want?
14:11
Speaker 7: You're really you really have problems. So that's another reason
14:14
Speaker 7: why loglines are so beneficial, because they can really help
14:17
Speaker 7: focus you on what's not in your screenplay and should be.
14:20
Speaker 5: And also what I found too is that a lot
14:23
Speaker 5: of screenplays that I read or are written by sort
14:25
Speaker 5: of you know, amateurs to like semi professionals, there's a
14:28
Speaker 5: lot of times there's no goal, like do you know
14:29
Speaker 5: what I mean, Like, there's nothing that is pushing this narrative.
14:33
Speaker 5: And then that's when I go back and I'm thinking, well,
14:35
Speaker 5: what would the log line be of this screenplay? And
14:37
Speaker 5: let me let's just give you a quick example. One
14:39
Speaker 5: of them was about a guy who his girlfriend dumps them,
14:43
Speaker 5: his fiance dumps them, and he sort of spends the
14:46
Speaker 5: rest of the screenplay just sort of wandering, I mean,
14:49
Speaker 5: And I kept thaying myself.
14:50
Speaker 4: You know what, you know, there was no goal.
14:52
Speaker 5: There wasn't even you know, you know what lane I
14:54
Speaker 5: would have settled for, even the character even saying like
14:57
Speaker 5: see that thing, that's what I need come out and
15:00
Speaker 5: said it because I thought, maybe, you know, maybe there's
15:03
Speaker 5: something I'm missing in the subtext here, maybe there's something
15:05
Speaker 5: I'm missing. And I got to the end and there
15:07
Speaker 5: was nothing there was no goal. And I said, you know,
15:11
Speaker 5: and I said to the person, you know, I think
15:12
Speaker 5: you need to go back and go through, you know, drafts,
15:15
Speaker 5: because I said, this is a draft one, obviously, and
15:17
Speaker 5: he looks at me. He goes, Dave, he goes, this
15:19
Speaker 5: isn't a draft one, this is draft ten. I said,
15:23
Speaker 5: draft ten. And then all came back laying to the
15:27
Speaker 5: log line and I said, there's no goal. There's nothing
15:30
Speaker 5: driving this narrative.
15:31
Speaker 6: Yeah, the what do I want is completely missing.
15:34
Speaker 7: And because of that, you know, everything is you know,
15:37
Speaker 7: just happening and for no purpose. That character has to
15:40
Speaker 7: have a want. That's what motivates them through this story.
15:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, very true.
15:43
Speaker 5: And you know often and now you know, as I
15:46
Speaker 5: read more screenplays on the professional side, I also when
15:49
Speaker 5: I'm going through I always pick out two what the
15:51
Speaker 5: theme is, because I mean, the really good writers you
15:54
Speaker 5: see that theme and you see, like you know, all
15:56
Speaker 5: that different stuff come up. Sometimes it's very obvious. Sometimes
16:00
Speaker 5: it's in the subtext. And you know, that's something that
16:02
Speaker 5: I've been looking for. Now as I read more professional screenplays.
16:05
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think, you know, I think once you get
16:08
Speaker 7: the basics down, then you start expanding into the cool
16:12
Speaker 7: stuff like the theme and the voice and you know,
16:15
Speaker 7: all that kind of cool stuff.
16:17
Speaker 6: And the problem I think is a lot of people
16:19
Speaker 6: jump ahead to that without having the basics down first.
16:23
Speaker 5: Yeah, because you know, as you know, it doesn't really
16:25
Speaker 5: you know, matter if we're talking about a novel or
16:26
Speaker 5: screenplay or what have you, because that structure is so important. Yes,
16:30
Speaker 5: you know, because I mean, you know what I mean
16:31
Speaker 5: like that, just you know, finding the way you know what,
16:34
Speaker 5: you know, we were just talking about, you know, events, screenwriting,
16:37
Speaker 5: but you know what is really driving this narrative? What
16:39
Speaker 5: is taking us from A to B to C to
16:41
Speaker 5: D T E so that way we can follow this
16:44
Speaker 5: character as they make these decisions for better or for
16:46
Speaker 5: worse for themselves.
16:47
Speaker 6: That's right, that's right, that's what's driving that story.
16:50
Speaker 7: It's sort of like when people the first question I
16:52
Speaker 7: always ask is who's the protagonist? And they laugh, right,
16:54
Speaker 7: But but you'd be amazed how many people have like
16:57
Speaker 7: the antagonist as their protagon. I mean, crazy stuff, And
17:01
Speaker 7: I say to them, you know, they'll say, like, oh,
17:03
Speaker 7: I have an ensemble piece, for example. But even in
17:05
Speaker 7: an ensemble, there's usually one person whose decisions are driving
17:10
Speaker 7: that story.
17:11
Speaker 6: Forward.
17:11
Speaker 7: Who has the most to lose, the most at stake,
17:14
Speaker 7: That is your protagonist. And you'd be amazed at how
17:17
Speaker 7: many people write not knowing their protagonist is.
17:21
Speaker 5: I completely agree because you know, and I'm I can
17:24
Speaker 5: only imagine you know, all the you know, all the
17:26
Speaker 5: projects that you see. I mean, I'm just you know,
17:27
Speaker 5: I read screenplays, you know, from all different sources, and
17:31
Speaker 5: I mean some of them, you know, I see the
17:32
Speaker 5: log line and it's just you know, and and I
17:34
Speaker 5: know someone not even read the screenplay, and it's just,
17:37
Speaker 5: you know, they they don't have the right main character,
17:38
Speaker 5: is what I'm trying to say, you know what I mean,
17:40
Speaker 5: Like the antagonist is much more thought out.
17:43
Speaker 4: The antagonist is the one controlling the story.
17:45
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, and you know, in reality, it's almost
17:48
Speaker 5: like the protagonist is like an afterthought, like all right,
17:50
Speaker 5: you know, then here's some guy he could fight, you know,
17:52
Speaker 5: it's like you know, you should, Yeah, you know what
17:54
Speaker 5: I mean, Like he's just sort of shoehorned in there
17:56
Speaker 5: to the stories so something can happen, exactly.
17:59
Speaker 7: And I think that again, like the log line, by
18:01
Speaker 7: creating that log line, who's the protagonist?
18:04
Speaker 6: What do they want? What is at stake.
18:05
Speaker 7: Then you find out ahead of time what your problem is.
18:08
Speaker 7: If you can't identify your protagonist, that's a big problem.
18:12
Speaker 7: And it's good because it helps you refocus once you
18:15
Speaker 7: discover who your protagonist is, so that you really.
18:19
Speaker 6: Can make your story, you know, sing.
18:22
Speaker 7: And I think that's one of the one of the
18:24
Speaker 7: things I love most about the log line is this
18:25
Speaker 7: life being able to sell your material.
18:27
Speaker 6: It really helps you.
18:28
Speaker 7: Focus on, you know, maybe some problems inherent in what
18:31
Speaker 7: you're doing.
18:32
Speaker 5: So Leanne, I don't know if you could think of
18:33
Speaker 5: this all, you know, just off the top of your head,
18:35
Speaker 5: but you know, what are some of your favorite log
18:37
Speaker 5: lines that that you have that you've ever read or
18:40
Speaker 5: come across. And I sort of just jumped out at
18:43
Speaker 5: you and you said, that's it. That's that's the project
18:46
Speaker 5: I want to go after.
18:47
Speaker 6: Uh.
18:47
Speaker 7: Sadly, I don't get sent log lines, which is why
18:50
Speaker 7: I started teaching this.
18:53
Speaker 6: I really want someone else to do the work and
18:54
Speaker 6: then bring it to me. Normally I'm the one who
18:57
Speaker 6: has to create that. I have one that I use.
18:59
Speaker 7: As example, a lot that I pitched to a Johnny
19:02
Speaker 7: Depp's company and a while back, which I just love
19:06
Speaker 7: because it sort of gives.
19:07
Speaker 6: When people are like, what's a log line? I always
19:09
Speaker 6: use this.
19:09
Speaker 7: It's a woman's idyllic homecoming is shattered when she finds
19:13
Speaker 7: herself the target of a coven determined.
19:16
Speaker 6: To make her their thirteenth member. I love that log line.
19:21
Speaker 7: It just it's so powerful, you know, and any good
19:25
Speaker 7: line log line is powerful. There's about, you know, nine
19:28
Speaker 7: million examples in the Book of Great log Lines, and
19:31
Speaker 7: I tried to include a log line for every sort
19:34
Speaker 7: of element I'm trying to teach. But I have also
19:36
Speaker 7: included in the book a whole bunch of workbooks you
19:39
Speaker 7: can practice, because it's really you know, log lines are
19:41
Speaker 7: all about writing and rewriting. You know, just as much
19:43
Speaker 7: as you would rewrite your script or your manuscript for
19:46
Speaker 7: a book, logline gets rewritten, you know. I give an
19:50
Speaker 7: example on the book of like a ten step process,
19:52
Speaker 7: but really that was one hundred step process.
19:54
Speaker 6: I just took ten out for the book.
19:57
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
20:03
Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
20:06
Speaker 7: You know, you're always rewriting, rewriting, rewriting because you want
20:09
Speaker 7: to streamline it and use more, you know, dynamic vocabulary
20:12
Speaker 7: and you know, you do everything you.
20:13
Speaker 6: Can and make it sell. That's a thing. Once you
20:16
Speaker 6: have the perfect sentence like that, you are good to go.
20:19
Speaker 2: You know.
20:20
Speaker 5: One thing that I've become more conscious of is when
20:22
Speaker 5: I'm watching TV and I hit the TV guide button
20:26
Speaker 5: on my remote, and you know, it comes up a
20:29
Speaker 5: description of the movie. And then I started to realize,
20:31
Speaker 5: you know, these are log lines, you know, because these
20:33
Speaker 5: are these are what's you know, telling you what the
20:34
Speaker 5: movie's about. And I came onto one on the Sci
20:36
Speaker 5: Fi channel and it was a movie called Ogre. And
20:40
Speaker 5: I remember just reading the synopsis. This this the log line,
20:44
Speaker 5: and I said, wow, that gave me the whole movie.
20:46
Speaker 4: And I can remember it too.
20:47
Speaker 5: It was something like a girl and a guy stumble
20:50
Speaker 5: upon a remote village ruled by an Ogre just in
20:55
Speaker 5: time for the yearly human sacrifice, or is something along lines?
21:00
Speaker 5: I mean, I may have just completely butchered that, but
21:02
Speaker 5: it was something along those lines. And I and I said, wow,
21:04
Speaker 5: you know that that's the log line right there.
21:06
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's you know, it's interesting to me, like considering
21:10
Speaker 7: how many bad log lines I get. Once in a while,
21:13
Speaker 7: you know, I get sent one and I think, wow, actually.
21:15
Speaker 6: That's that's pretty damn good. You know, it's it's it's rare.
21:20
Speaker 7: It's a rare occurrence, unfortunately, but you know, I it's
21:24
Speaker 7: I was just sent one. I have a website called
21:26
Speaker 7: sell It in a Sentence dot Com where people can
21:28
Speaker 7: go and get you know, log line help, and one
21:31
Speaker 7: woman sent me a log line which was actually quite good.
21:33
Speaker 7: It needed one little tweak, but you know, I read
21:36
Speaker 7: it and I.
21:36
Speaker 6: Thought, huh, you know, that's not half bad, you.
21:39
Speaker 7: Know, And it's terrible to say this, but I'm always
21:41
Speaker 7: surprised by that because I get so many, so many
21:44
Speaker 7: log lines that are just you know, like you'll get
21:46
Speaker 7: the people who try to cram their plot into a
21:48
Speaker 7: one sentence thing, so you have like you know, commas
21:50
Speaker 7: everywhere and a whole bunch of parentheses and like dot
21:52
Speaker 7: dot dots and like it's just crazy shit, you know
21:55
Speaker 7: that they're trying to do to make sure that you
21:57
Speaker 7: that they can get one sentence out of like everything
22:00
Speaker 7: they feels important on the planet.
22:02
Speaker 6: I always say that to writers when they try to
22:04
Speaker 6: do that.
22:04
Speaker 7: I say, like, you're not trying to get your book
22:06
Speaker 7: in a one sentence, good luck doing that, which you're
22:08
Speaker 7: really trying to do is find what's most unique about
22:10
Speaker 7: your work and put that into one sentence.
22:12
Speaker 2: You know.
22:13
Speaker 5: And you know, Lane, what you just said there, I
22:15
Speaker 5: really just extracted something very very important from So anyone
22:18
Speaker 5: listening that didn't pick up on what Lane just said,
22:21
Speaker 5: she could send a lot of bad log lines. So
22:23
Speaker 5: what I think is, if you actually have a good
22:25
Speaker 5: log line, it seems like you could stand out pretty easily.
22:28
Speaker 5: Is that Is that a good assumption?
22:30
Speaker 6: Absolutely? Absolutely.
22:31
Speaker 7: I spend a lot of time revamping really bad log lines. Yeah,
22:37
Speaker 7: because I think there's a lot of misinformation on how
22:39
Speaker 7: to create a log line out there that I saw
22:41
Speaker 7: when I was starting to do my book that really
22:44
Speaker 7: don't help you. Like, for example, they take to do
22:46
Speaker 7: like the you know, this movie meets that movie, you know,
22:48
Speaker 7: and I look at that and I think, how does
22:50
Speaker 7: that sell your particular story? I will never understand that
22:54
Speaker 7: that's not a log line that doesn't sell your work.
22:56
Speaker 7: That sells me two movies I may have seen.
22:58
Speaker 6: You know.
23:00
Speaker 5: So, I had a friend who was a he was
23:02
Speaker 5: a screenwriter, and he actually got a job as a
23:04
Speaker 5: script reader, you know, one of the quote unquote gatekeepers
23:07
Speaker 5: at a studio, and you know, they would give him
23:10
Speaker 5: tons of screenplays to read, and he said, you know,
23:13
Speaker 5: basically he would go through all these screenplays and I
23:16
Speaker 5: mean he said it was so hard to get through
23:18
Speaker 5: a lot of these because said they you know, it
23:20
Speaker 5: was spelling mistakes, it was grammar mistakes, you know. I
23:23
Speaker 5: mean he you know, you know, and he would at
23:25
Speaker 5: the end have to do coverage on it. You know,
23:27
Speaker 5: he would have to write no pass you know, et cetera.
23:29
Speaker 5: And so he said, whenever he came across a good script,
23:33
Speaker 5: he wanted to send that person like a you know,
23:35
Speaker 5: a dozen roses and be like, thank you so much.
23:38
Speaker 5: He's like, because you know, you know, for every I
23:40
Speaker 5: don't know, not you know, a thousand screenplays nine hundred
23:42
Speaker 5: and ninety nine or just passes, and that one is
23:45
Speaker 5: actually an accept or recommend And he said, it's it's
23:48
Speaker 5: just so refreshing it And he said, really, you can
23:51
Speaker 5: tell because you know, like you've seen all the log lines,
23:54
Speaker 5: he said, you can tell who has an idea of
23:56
Speaker 5: what they're doing versus who has who's just sort of
23:59
Speaker 5: throwing stuff at the wall and see what sticks.
24:00
Speaker 7: Absolutely absolutely makes it so clear, you know, and sadly,
24:05
Speaker 7: you know, as I said earlier to you when we
24:07
Speaker 7: were chatting, you know, you can be the best writer
24:09
Speaker 7: in the world, but if you can't sell it, it
24:11
Speaker 7: makes no difference at all. So it's really it's a
24:14
Speaker 7: shame to me when you have a writer who's got
24:16
Speaker 7: an amazing piece of work but they can't come up
24:19
Speaker 7: with a log line to save their life, you know,
24:20
Speaker 7: So how are they going to sell it?
24:23
Speaker 5: So do you recommend, you know, for writers, you know,
24:25
Speaker 5: who are you know, maybe you're starting a new book
24:27
Speaker 5: or a new screenplay, do you recommend that they sort
24:30
Speaker 5: of start with a with a concept or you know,
24:32
Speaker 5: or even a vague idea of the log line to
24:35
Speaker 5: sort of build from before they even would start trying
24:38
Speaker 5: to write the actual book.
24:39
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, yes, yes, you know.
24:42
Speaker 7: I recommend it so often because otherwise you get people
24:45
Speaker 7: and I mentioned this in the book who you know,
24:47
Speaker 7: They've written three hundred pages, but it's an event to
24:50
Speaker 7: an event to event book.
24:51
Speaker 6: Nothing's motivated.
24:53
Speaker 7: And it's really sad because once they figure out the
24:56
Speaker 7: log them, they're like, oh crap, now I got to
24:59
Speaker 7: go back and read the whole thing, because your log
25:01
Speaker 7: line is like your rudder right on a boat.
25:03
Speaker 6: It's steering you.
25:04
Speaker 7: So I always recommend that writers create the log line
25:07
Speaker 7: first because it keeps you focused as you write on
25:10
Speaker 7: what's important.
25:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, and that I looked at that analogy. It's the rudder
25:14
Speaker 5: of your story, your rudder of your ship. I really
25:16
Speaker 5: like that analogy.
25:17
Speaker 6: Yeah, keeps you focused. If it's not.
25:20
Speaker 7: If what your writing doesn't have anything to do with
25:21
Speaker 7: your log line, it shouldn't be in your book or
25:23
Speaker 7: your screenplay.
25:24
Speaker 4: Yeah. I have oftentimes too.
25:25
Speaker 5: When I read different screenplays, I see things like, you know,
25:28
Speaker 5: scenes or whatever, or characters that just sort of provide,
25:32
Speaker 5: you know what I mean, Like they're just why are
25:33
Speaker 5: they there?
25:34
Speaker 4: You know what I mean?
25:34
Speaker 5: And I think, you know, when if you can take
25:37
Speaker 5: that concept, you know, turn that into a log line,
25:40
Speaker 5: take that log line and start to build upon that.
25:43
Speaker 5: That way, you know, you you'll know it's you know,
25:46
Speaker 5: what belongs and what doesn't. It's sort of what Patty
25:49
Speaker 5: Chayevski used to do, because he used to do something similar.
25:51
Speaker 4: I think he would. He would boil it down.
25:53
Speaker 5: He would take his log line and take a theme
25:55
Speaker 5: and put it on the wall in front of him
25:56
Speaker 5: and say, if it doesn't match this, it's not going
25:59
Speaker 5: in the screenplay regardless.
26:00
Speaker 6: That's right, that's right.
26:02
Speaker 7: I think it's it's incredibly valuable to do that log
26:05
Speaker 7: line first, Otherwise you're just gonna do a lot of
26:08
Speaker 7: rewriting later unfortunately.
26:10
Speaker 4: Yeah.
26:11
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's something too that I've learned when I'm when
26:14
Speaker 5: I'm writing, if I didn't have the you know, at
26:17
Speaker 5: least you know, you know, something to guide me along.
26:20
Speaker 5: You know, it's just you You write yourself into a
26:22
Speaker 5: hole and you go, wait, what the hell where do
26:24
Speaker 5: I go?
26:24
Speaker 4: Now?
26:25
Speaker 5: You know what scene comes next to? You know, should
26:28
Speaker 5: I now go to see what the antagonist is doing?
26:30
Speaker 7: Well?
26:31
Speaker 4: Who's the antagonist?
26:32
Speaker 5: You know.
26:32
Speaker 6: It's like it's like.
26:33
Speaker 7: If you were you know, like out, you know, hiking
26:35
Speaker 7: in the wilderness without a map or without a compass,
26:38
Speaker 7: you know you're gonna get lost.
26:42
Speaker 5: I was actually just reading a story or two about
26:43
Speaker 5: somebody who actually went hiking and didn't have a compass
26:46
Speaker 5: and she was lost for fifty days.
26:48
Speaker 6: Oh god, oh god, that's horrible.
26:51
Speaker 4: Yeah, she uh.
26:52
Speaker 5: I'm sorry not to get too sidetracked, but I just
26:54
Speaker 5: thought that story was fascinating because she she got up early,
26:57
Speaker 5: and she she was with a camping group and she
27:00
Speaker 5: decided to go up by herself without a compass and
27:02
Speaker 5: didn't know how to you know, didn't know how to
27:04
Speaker 5: read any of the natures, you know, like you know,
27:05
Speaker 5: the moss on the side of the trees or the
27:07
Speaker 5: north star, and got completely turned around very quickly and
27:10
Speaker 5: had no idea which way you know, to go. But
27:13
Speaker 5: I so so sorry not to get two sidetracks. But
27:16
Speaker 5: I always I always find stories about you know, like
27:19
Speaker 5: worlders survival like that fascinating because I mean and that
27:22
Speaker 5: and that that was very quickly how that happened to
27:24
Speaker 5: her too. But sorry, But to go back to, you know,
27:26
Speaker 5: tell about log lines and your story. What recommendations would
27:30
Speaker 5: you have for writers, you know who were setting out
27:33
Speaker 5: now to maybe start writing a book, or recommendations were
27:36
Speaker 5: trying to you know, even to sell a book, or
27:39
Speaker 5: even to pitch to you know, or even to pitch
27:40
Speaker 5: people like you laying you know, what recommendations you know,
27:43
Speaker 5: do you have for them? What should they be doing?
27:45
Speaker 6: Go buy my book?
27:49
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean number one, you know, have that log
27:52
Speaker 7: line in place, have a great selling be able to say.
27:57
Speaker 7: You know, it's a story of a woman who at
27:58
Speaker 7: nineteen ran the biggest drug cartel in US history. You know,
28:02
Speaker 7: have that sentence ready, because that's how you're going to
28:05
Speaker 7: grab someone's attention, my attention. Networking execs attention anyone, you
28:09
Speaker 7: know that even like when they if they're writing a book,
28:12
Speaker 7: I would say, like put that at the top of
28:13
Speaker 7: your query letter to all the agents for you know,
28:16
Speaker 7: because believe me, it'll get the agent interested in reading.
28:19
Speaker 7: And plus they can use it to sell it to
28:21
Speaker 7: an editor or a publisher as well. So it's sort
28:24
Speaker 7: of this this gift that keeps on giving.
28:26
Speaker 5: You know.
28:28
Speaker 7: That's it's a great way to start, you know because
28:30
Speaker 7: aside from helping you write, it really does sell your material.
28:34
Speaker 7: And if you can't sell it, it does you no
28:36
Speaker 7: good to write it anyway.
28:37
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know that's very true, you know because you know,
28:40
Speaker 5: even me, like sometimes I write, you know, and sometimes
28:43
Speaker 5: I always think to myself, well, if it doesn't sell,
28:44
Speaker 5: it could be a practice script. But then again you're
28:47
Speaker 5: always you're always thinking, well, if I write it, I
28:48
Speaker 5: do want to actually I do want people to actually
28:50
Speaker 5: see it or buy it or whatever. You know.
28:52
Speaker 6: That's right, that's right.
28:53
Speaker 7: And I think the other thing I usually recommend is
28:55
Speaker 7: I tell people to you know, like, for example, I
28:58
Speaker 7: speak at this great conference called Grubs set mus in
29:00
Speaker 7: the Marketplace. It's in Boston, and like, these are invaluable
29:04
Speaker 7: places for writers because you know, you can pay to
29:08
Speaker 7: have a ten or twenty minute session with these writers agents.
29:11
Speaker 7: What a great way to get in front of these people,
29:14
Speaker 7: so you're not just in the slush pile with the
29:16
Speaker 7: nine billion other people sending stuff in that was not solicited.
29:20
Speaker 7: You're actually talking to them face to face about your material.
29:24
Speaker 7: It's it's a great way to get an agent. It's
29:26
Speaker 7: a it's just a great way to learn the process
29:28
Speaker 7: and practice, you know, talking to these folks and hearing
29:32
Speaker 7: what they like and don't like. I mean, it's just
29:34
Speaker 7: so invaluable. I always recommend go to writers' conferences with that.
29:39
Speaker 7: You know that that provide that option because you know,
29:43
Speaker 7: it's the same thing I do going to New York
29:44
Speaker 7: and sitting in front of the author's agents, you know,
29:46
Speaker 7: in person, it's like there's nothing like a face to face.
29:50
Speaker 3: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
29:56
Speaker 3: and now back to the show.
30:00
Speaker 5: You know, if there was you know, writers listening to
30:03
Speaker 5: this who haven't never been to a writer's conference you know,
30:06
Speaker 5: is there like a top three writers conferences across America?
30:10
Speaker 5: Because most of my listeners are in America, so that's
30:11
Speaker 5: why I said America. But is there any three, you know,
30:14
Speaker 5: like top conferences, or or even just one or two
30:17
Speaker 5: that you would recommend to sit anyone listening.
30:19
Speaker 7: I mean, grub Street News in the Marketplace is one
30:22
Speaker 7: of the best. Honestly, It's why I do it every year.
30:26
Speaker 7: I also do a thing called the Next best Seller
30:28
Speaker 7: out of New York, which is more specialized. They only
30:31
Speaker 7: allow I think ten people in, and then of course
30:35
Speaker 7: there's like Thriller Fest. It depends what you're writing. There
30:37
Speaker 7: are a ton of writers conferences specifically for whatever genre
30:40
Speaker 7: you're doing, but grub Street is the one that I
30:44
Speaker 7: always recommend because first of all, it's incredibly well run
30:48
Speaker 7: and also just because it's just a it's an amazing
30:52
Speaker 7: opportunity to literally sit across from a writer's agent and
30:55
Speaker 7: talk to them about your work.
30:56
Speaker 6: How great is that? You know?
30:58
Speaker 4: Yeah, that is very true. You know.
31:00
Speaker 5: I had a friend of mine go to a FI,
31:02
Speaker 5: the American Film Institute, and they had that that conference,
31:05
Speaker 5: American Film Market and I and he went to there
31:07
Speaker 5: and he they he was looking around and they said
31:11
Speaker 5: a lot of a lot of you know, distributors were like,
31:14
Speaker 5: we want no zombie projects and no found footage projects
31:17
Speaker 5: because the market is saturated. But you know, it's good
31:20
Speaker 5: that he went there met them face to face because
31:22
Speaker 5: that's the that was the people that were in charge
31:24
Speaker 5: of buying in the foreign you know, the foreign areas,
31:29
Speaker 5: the foreign markets and everything. And they they told him,
31:31
Speaker 5: they said, were we every other pitch we hear is
31:33
Speaker 5: a zombie film or a found footage film or the
31:36
Speaker 5: Ultimate Lane which is a zombie found footage film.
31:39
Speaker 4: You know.
31:40
Speaker 7: The beauty of that is that he got the knowledge
31:42
Speaker 7: that that tells you what they don't want.
31:44
Speaker 6: That's you know, that's invaluable knowledge.
31:46
Speaker 4: Yeah, it really is.
31:48
Speaker 5: I mean, and you can see, you know firsthand what's
31:50
Speaker 5: what's being sold and what's you know, not being sold,
31:53
Speaker 5: and you know just what you were talking about with
31:54
Speaker 5: those writer conferences.
31:55
Speaker 4: You know that that is invaluable information. Being able to
31:58
Speaker 4: go there and meet with these people face to face.
32:00
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, they're honest to god. I think people are
32:03
Speaker 6: more apt to look at material from someone that they've
32:06
Speaker 6: met or know than you know, some slush pile you know,
32:09
Speaker 6: faceless submission.
32:12
Speaker 4: Yeah.
32:12
Speaker 5: And you know I had shown Coin on on the podcast,
32:15
Speaker 5: and he's actually an editor, and you know that that's
32:18
Speaker 5: one of the things he said, you know, he saw
32:20
Speaker 5: because he was twenty years he was working in as
32:22
Speaker 5: a story editor, and he said he would just you know,
32:24
Speaker 5: the slush pile, you know what I mean, that pile
32:26
Speaker 5: of scripts that they just went, you know this, there's
32:28
Speaker 5: nothing we could do. He said, it would just get
32:30
Speaker 5: so much every day that he ended up writing a book.
32:33
Speaker 5: So it reminded me similar to you your story, because
32:36
Speaker 5: you know, you eventually really you know, wrote a book
32:39
Speaker 5: because everyone was saying, you know, you should write a book.
32:41
Speaker 5: You've seen all this stuff and it's just, you know,
32:43
Speaker 5: it's just pretty interesting the parallel.
32:44
Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, it's you know, it's one of those things
32:48
Speaker 7: where he I think, you never think you're going to
32:50
Speaker 7: do it, and then one day are like, oh crap,
32:51
Speaker 7: I really got to write.
32:52
Speaker 4: This down, you know. Lane.
32:56
Speaker 5: So we've been talking for you know, about thirty five minutes.
32:59
Speaker 5: I know you have you know, a million more books
33:00
Speaker 5: to read, you get more log lines. So I just
33:04
Speaker 5: wanted to ask, you know, in closing, is there anything
33:08
Speaker 5: that you we didn't get a chance to talk about
33:10
Speaker 5: or anything maybe that you wanted to say that we
33:12
Speaker 5: get it. We didn't get a chance to to sort
33:14
Speaker 5: of put a period at the end of this conversation.
33:16
Speaker 7: I mean, I think, I know we brushed on it lightly,
33:19
Speaker 7: but I just I always like to reiterate to writers
33:23
Speaker 7: to think about what's at stake with their characters, because
33:28
Speaker 7: number one, that's the main thing that's always missing from
33:30
Speaker 7: most log lines, but also because for example, I had
33:34
Speaker 7: a woman send me one about her character had a
33:38
Speaker 7: brain tumor that was like allowing him to play golf
33:40
Speaker 7: really well, and her log line had to do with
33:42
Speaker 7: him wanting to play in the Masters, and I said
33:46
Speaker 7: to her, you know, it's it's such a The problem
33:49
Speaker 7: is if he doesn't play in the Masters, so what
33:52
Speaker 7: he's not playing golf? Oh well, you know what I mean,
33:55
Speaker 7: The stakes aren't high enough. And it sort of changed
33:59
Speaker 7: everything for her because she had been writing based on
34:01
Speaker 7: that premise it's all about him wanting to play in
34:04
Speaker 7: the Masters, and I said, you know, the stakes are
34:07
Speaker 7: so so, so so important. And ultimately the log line
34:11
Speaker 7: on I can't remember the exact one, was something to
34:13
Speaker 7: the effect of you know if he kept that brain tumor,
34:16
Speaker 7: or you know, he could either have the surgery right,
34:19
Speaker 7: which would save his life, but he can't play golf anymore,
34:23
Speaker 7: or keep that brain tumor play the Masters but die
34:26
Speaker 7: from it.
34:26
Speaker 6: You know.
34:27
Speaker 7: Now it's life or death stakes. Now it matters. Now
34:30
Speaker 7: I care. Now that story is so much more powerful.
34:33
Speaker 7: So really, I spent a lot of time reminding writers
34:37
Speaker 7: that those stakes are so valuable and important that they
34:42
Speaker 7: have to be high enough for us to care, otherwise
34:44
Speaker 7: we're not going to want to read their work.
34:47
Speaker 2: You know that.
34:47
Speaker 5: That's actually very good X. When you were describing that,
34:50
Speaker 5: I actually was going to say, well, maybe he wanted
34:52
Speaker 5: to win the Masters for his parents or you know
34:54
Speaker 5: what I mean, like something like that, But.
34:56
Speaker 4: You're your idea with much better than mind.
34:58
Speaker 7: Well, if you think about it, if he doesn't the Masters,
35:00
Speaker 7: what does it matter? You know, it's like, oh, well
35:03
Speaker 7: he didn't get to do a golf game, And I'm
35:05
Speaker 7: sure the golfers out.
35:06
Speaker 6: There are like, oh, come on.
35:10
Speaker 5: Alan Watt, who was on the podcast, he once said
35:13
Speaker 5: to me, you know, problems get solved, stories get resolved.
35:18
Speaker 6: That's a great quote.
35:19
Speaker 5: Yeah, Alan, is is phenomenal and that's one of the
35:22
Speaker 5: things you know that I sort of been I've been
35:24
Speaker 5: noticing more of too, is you know, what is a
35:27
Speaker 5: story problem and how do we resolve that because you
35:30
Speaker 5: know it's sort of like a character has that dilemma, Well,
35:33
Speaker 5: that dilemma you know stems. You know, you have two
35:35
Speaker 5: bad options, you know, and you know you have to
35:37
Speaker 5: pick one, which is the dilemma of himself because of
35:40
Speaker 5: the problem. And you know, he sort of says, you know,
35:43
Speaker 5: you have to how does this get resolved? So when
35:45
Speaker 5: he know he was crafting his stories, you know, he
35:48
Speaker 5: was saying, you know, you can't really and he uses
35:50
Speaker 5: a quote from Einstein, you can't solve the same You
35:55
Speaker 5: can't solve a problem with the same perception that caused
35:58
Speaker 5: the problem. So you have to have a shift in
35:59
Speaker 5: perconce So uh and that's how stories get reas off.
36:02
Speaker 5: But it just reminded me because that was, uh yeah,
36:05
Speaker 5: I think you know your your idea of stakes and
36:08
Speaker 5: why he's doing it. That was actually very good. I
36:10
Speaker 5: like that, you know, does he stay and you know,
36:12
Speaker 5: does he stay in the master's but the brain twer
36:14
Speaker 5: kills him?
36:15
Speaker 4: Or does he not play? You know what I mean,
36:16
Speaker 4: I really like that.
36:17
Speaker 6: Now you care right now? It's like life or death?
36:20
Speaker 6: Is you know, how important is that game? You know?
36:22
Speaker 7: To him it's obviously, you know, depending on his choice,
36:25
Speaker 7: it's very important. So uh and then we care obviously.
36:28
Speaker 6: But I love that quote. And you know, it's funny.
36:30
Speaker 7: I have a I always talk about this. I went
36:33
Speaker 7: to a writer's conference and Anne Perry was speaking. I've
36:36
Speaker 7: just set up her books with Lauren Tchuler Donner, and
36:39
Speaker 7: she's so prolific, and she has this quote that I
36:42
Speaker 7: also memorized because I was like, that's so good. A
36:45
Speaker 7: lot of authors will say, or screenwriters will say, should
36:48
Speaker 7: I write about what I know? I keep being told
36:51
Speaker 7: right about what you know? And she said, write about
36:55
Speaker 7: what you care about. Nobody cares what you know?
36:59
Speaker 6: And I loved that. I thought that was so great.
37:02
Speaker 7: It's like it's always my last little comment talk to writers,
37:05
Speaker 7: write about what you care about.
37:07
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know that is phenomenal. That is absolutely phenomenal.
37:11
Speaker 6: Five million books in prints, So you have to quote
37:13
Speaker 6: her anyway.
37:15
Speaker 5: You can't argue with sales, right, go there you go, Lane,
37:19
Speaker 5: Where can we find you out online?
37:21
Speaker 7: I am at vast, vast like a vast array of
37:24
Speaker 7: material dash entertainment dot com or if they want logline help,
37:29
Speaker 7: they go to sell it in a sentence dot com.
37:32
Speaker 4: And are you in any social media sites?
37:34
Speaker 7: I am at lane chefter Bish on Twitter, and I'm
37:37
Speaker 7: on Facebook too. I don't know what the thing is,
37:39
Speaker 7: but you can find me on Facebook too.
37:41
Speaker 4: I just actually followed you on Twitter.
37:43
Speaker 7: By the way, well, perfect, perfect, I got to get
37:46
Speaker 7: better at that social media thing. I saw Dave that
37:48
Speaker 7: you have all these books on social media. I gotta
37:49
Speaker 7: go buy one of those.
37:50
Speaker 5: I participated in one. I actually I actually don't have
37:53
Speaker 5: any other books for social media.
37:55
Speaker 6: That one was on your site.
37:56
Speaker 4: Is that the one that you contributed to THEE but
38:00
Speaker 4: with Guy Kawakaki.
38:01
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah his Hey the Art of Social Media.
38:04
Speaker 4: I was able to contribute on that.
38:05
Speaker 5: And then I also help with the book by Paul
38:08
Speaker 5: Holligan on how to Podcast. So uh yeah, those are
38:12
Speaker 5: those are my two small additions to the to the
38:15
Speaker 5: to Amazon. One day, I hope to be in your
38:17
Speaker 5: shoes and be able to you have my own book.
38:20
Speaker 5: Uh so uh, I mean you know like your book is.
38:23
Speaker 5: I'm actually going to pick up a copy very soon
38:25
Speaker 5: of your book. I actually don't know why I didn't
38:27
Speaker 5: pick up a copy yet, but when I do pick
38:29
Speaker 5: up a copy, I'm going to make sure to email
38:30
Speaker 5: you with a bunch of questions. No, I'm just kidding,
38:33
Speaker 5: but uh but I will link to every all of
38:35
Speaker 5: your all of your website, your all your social media
38:38
Speaker 5: channels in the show notes, Lane, I want to say
38:40
Speaker 5: thank you so much for coming on.
38:42
Speaker 6: Well, thanks for having me Dave. I really enjoyed it.
38:44
Speaker 5: Oh, it was a blast having you on. And if
38:46
Speaker 5: you ever want to come back on, please let me know.
38:48
Speaker 5: The door is always open.
38:49
Speaker 6: Awesome. Thanks so much.
38:50
Speaker 4: Oh my pleasure. Take care of Lane too.
38:53
Speaker 2: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
38:55
Speaker 2: a great job on this episode. If you want to
38:57
Speaker 2: get links to anything we spoke about in this episode,
38:59
Speaker 2: head over to the show notes at Bulletproof Screenwriting dot tv.
39:02
Speaker 2: Forward slash for eighty. Thank you so much for listening
39:05
Speaker 2: to guys, as always, keep on writing no matter what.
39:09
Speaker 4: I'll talk to you soon.
39:10
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting
39:14
Speaker 1: dot tv.