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Coaching That Sticks: High-Impact Strategies from Dr. Matthew Rhodes · C3 Connecting, Coaches, Cognition

• 0:15
  Welcome back to another episode of C3. I'm Courtney Groskin,
• 0:18
  and I'm here with Sandy Heiser. Sandy, what's new in your world?
• 0:23
  Oh my gosh, Courtney, back to school is in full force. Did you have a good summer?
• 0:29
  Yeah, it was great to take some time off in between our COG coach training and
• 0:34
  everything else we had going on this summer, but lots of time in the garden,
• 0:38
  lots of time in the yard with pickles. What about you?
• 0:41
  Yeah, same thing. Well, and you read a lot of books. We both read like crazy
• 0:45
  this summer. We read some really great books.
• 0:48
  Yeah, lots of good reading happening. And we did get outside a little bit.
• 0:53
  Got some paddling in with the dogs.
• 0:56
  So can't complain. It was great. Nice.
• 1:00
  Today we're joined by Dr. Matthew Rhodes. He is an educational,
• 1:03
  technology, AI, and instructional strategy expert specializing in K-12 adult and higher education.
• 1:10
  As a technology and instructional leader, coach, trainer, and professional learning
• 1:13
  specialist, he helps educators integrate research-based instructional strategies
• 1:18
  with ed tech and AI in cross in-person blended and online learning environments.
• 1:24
  Dr. Rhodes also serves as a doctoral dissertation chair, coaching students through
• 1:28
  the research, writing, and defense process.
• 1:31
  His publications focus on using technology to amplify teaching and learning.
• 1:35
  His books include Crush It From the Start, 25 Tips for Instructional Coaches
• 1:40
  and Leaders, Co-Teaching Evolved, Crush It From the Start, 50 Tips for New Teachers,
• 1:45
  Instruction Without Boundaries, Amplify Learning, and Navigating the Toggle Term.
• 1:50
  He also hosts Navigating Education, the podcast, exploring topics related to
• 1:55
  education, technology, and instruction. Welcome, Dr. Rhodes.
• 2:00
  Well, thank you so much for joining us today. Welcome to C3.
• 2:04
  Can you tell us about your experience in education?
• 2:07
  Yeah, so I am currently supporting about 100 teachers now in my position,
• 2:13
  supporting a lot of career education,
• 2:17
  teachers, as well as new teachers and pre-service teachers through my day job and my university work.
• 2:23
  So I see teachers on, you know, just starting their career as well as seasoned
• 2:29
  teachers and also within, you know, really young,
• 2:33
  you know, guys from like the TK all the way up to post-secondary.
• 2:39
  So it's really cool to see and develop teachers across all, you know,
• 2:44
  essentially all age levels and most content areas and also in some dual language
• 2:50
  contexts where they're doing both English and Spanish.
• 2:53
  So it's a really cool spectrum.
• 2:58
  Well, we appreciate your university work because that makes our job a lot easier
• 3:02
  when we go to hire these teachers that are really ready to jump in.
• 3:06
  Yeah, certainly. And it's hiring season right now. So a number of my teachers
• 3:11
  are just getting into applying for positions. And it's always fun to see the
• 3:16
  next few months where teachers land right when they're beginning their career.
• 3:21
  And just really telling them, you know, it's all about trying to find the right
• 3:25
  fit, culture, and, you know, getting the support around you to be successful.
• 3:32
  It's so critical those first five years.
• 3:35
  Nice. Well, Dr. Rhodes, I know we're talking about coaching today,
• 3:38
  but I did want to mention we had about 10 pairs of new co-teachers start at my school last year.
• 3:46
  Just this school year that's finishing, and we kind of created a year-long support
• 3:51
  system slash PD for them, and we drew on several books.
• 3:55
  But we used your co-teaching book, the Co-Teaching Evolved, as one of our sources.
• 4:02
  And we would meet like once a month, once every two months, and just get together,
• 4:07
  check in, and then try to draw from several different books.
• 4:12
  But yours was one of them. And so we finished the year.
• 4:15
  Pretty successful co-teaching. So anyway, appreciate that.
• 4:19
  Oh, of course. No, I'm really happy that you guys were able to use the book
• 4:23
  and use a blueprint for your program.
• 4:25
  And, you know, in the future, just let me know how it's going after the first
• 4:29
  year. You know, it's that the process, like with coaching, you're building a
• 4:32
  program, you're building systems to support teachers and so that teachers can
• 4:37
  be successful in the classroom. So that's really cool.
• 4:41
  Yeah, it was. I mean, the hope, of course, was always that the pairs would stay
• 4:45
  together for at least two years.
• 4:49
  And we, you know, just due to master scheduling, not everyone stayed together,
• 4:53
  but we'll see. We're going to build on on what we did this year.
• 4:57
  But so for a coaching question, in your experience, what's the most common mistake,
• 5:03
  instructional coaches or leaders make early on and how can they avoid it from the start?
• 5:10
  I'll start from a leadership perspective first and then talk about how coaches can navigate this.
• 5:15
  Sometimes I think when you go to districts, there's a lot of really not a true
• 5:21
  definition of what an instructional coach does and essentially like what are their goals?
• 5:26
  And when they go to different school sites, there's no goals in place related
• 5:30
  to what instructional coaches do.
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  They do a lot of things that is not coaching.
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  So they end up being a glorified sub on campus, or they are mostly navigating
• 5:42
  behavior, or they're essentially a mini assistant principal,
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  but they're not paying assistant principal wages.
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  So I think that there's a lot to be said about defining what the instructional
• 5:53
  coach does from a district and school site level so that you can actually have
• 5:59
  the coach go and coach teachers.
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  And additionally what does that coaching look like what are the expectations
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  for that coaching to look like is it mostly going to be more you know what we
• 6:11
  call pop observations where there's pre-observation observation post post-observation
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  or there's going to be something where you're utilizing like night's impact
• 6:21
  cycle or for example the grow model or for example you're going to have a lot
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  of on-the-spot coaching
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  where the coach will go into the classroom and support teachers.
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  When they have time, whether it's, you know, during their passing periods or
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  lunch or right after school or right before school, or they'll jump in and push
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  into lessons to help co-teach to a degree.
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  I think setting up those parameters of like what the expectation is of what
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  the coach is going to be doing with teachers, it's really key.
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  And as a coach, I think it's really important to be navigating,
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  like trying to figure out your own lane and your systems as a coach within the
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  parameters they give you because every
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  site you go to every district you're gonna go to it's gonna be a little bit different and,
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  you're gonna be navigating that lane that they have either paid for you or you're
• 7:16
  gonna have to pay it yourself and i think just
• 7:19
  really the goal is to focus on the coaching piece versus everything else i think
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  if you really want to leverage that as a resource,
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  that has to happen and i often see that you know,
• 7:32
  very commonplace where these you know these roles aren't defined or the goals
• 7:37
  of the coach aren't defined and then the coach is doing a lot of things that
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  are not coaching and that's not what the coach is.
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  Supposed to do i think so that's what i see from like a leadership level and
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  then from a coaching level i see coaches tend to,
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  not focus on coaching because they're worried about everything else that they
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  need to do and they don't have a system.
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  So for example, when they're observing teachers and they're collecting data.
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  They essentially don't have that in place and have to build it themselves.
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  And I think that's something that the district or school needs to help support
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  building them. Or for example, there's a formal observation rubric for teachers,
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  but there isn't a coaching observation rubric.
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  I think that that's important, too. So we want to make sure that the coach knows
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  what they need to do and make sure that they don't have duties along the side,
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  as well as they have that foundational piece so that they can go in,
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  and have something that they can do to collect data and actually measure the
• 8:41
  coaching that they're doing so that they can, you know, start on the right foot and coach.
• 8:46
  Also, too, I think a lot of coaches come into coaching without having a lot
• 8:50
  of coaching experience. They may have worked with maybe a pre-service teacher
• 8:54
  before, but sometimes coaches come in really hot and sometimes they come in really cold.
• 9:00
  So I think if you've seen a number of instructional coaches in your career,
• 9:03
  you've seen people that are very enthusiastic.
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  And then you see people that are really kind of timid at times,
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  especially working with teachers that may not be as open to coaching.
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  So I think that that's something for them to, you know, really take into consideration
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  as well as I think when you're starting to coach, especially if you're a new
• 9:22
  coach to a site, you need to make sure that you're everywhere.
• 9:26
  So everyone knows who you are and be very clear along with administration.
• 9:32
  What are your goals and your intentions? Because sometimes when there's never
• 9:36
  been a coach there, it could be very invasive, the teachers.
• 9:40
  And it takes you know some time for the ground to thaw,
• 9:45
  and when it becomes more normalized hey this person's coming into your classroom
• 9:49
  you know a number of times a week or hey you'll see them you know every month,
• 9:55
  or they're going to be pushing in to your classroom to help you co-teach as
• 9:59
  you're trying to learn this new strategy or ed tech tool for example,
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  so those are the types of you know, things that I always like to talk to school
• 10:08
  leaders and coaches about because when you're starting out.
• 10:12
  It's essential.
• 10:14
  Yeah, we hear that time and time again about setting the expectations,
• 10:17
  meeting with the leadership up front and finding out what the goal is as a coach,
• 10:21
  what the expectations are, and really defining that job description.
• 10:26
  So out of your book, there's 25 amazing tips. Which one tends to create the
• 10:31
  biggest impact when implemented well.
• 10:34
  Oh, man, that's a really tough question. I like to say that there's several.
• 10:38
  If you pin them together, it's going to be helpful.
• 10:41
  I think it just depends on where you're at as a coach. And, you know,
• 10:46
  if you're just starting out or you've done this before. Or so,
• 10:50
  I mean, I think first and foremost, as I kind of just mentioned before, just being visible.
• 10:55
  I think being visible is key, but also really as you're, I call it the mobile coach.
• 11:01
  While you're evaluating kind of, you know, the site itself and the teachers,
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  it's really understanding really who are people that are most willing to be coached.
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  And i talk a lot about in the book it's called the diffusion of innovation where
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  if a coach knows like hey you have 20 of people that are going to be very enthusiastic
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  to be coached that's the first group that you want to start coaching,
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  and then as you move into six months to a year to two years you want to focus
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  on what we call the mid-majority the mid-majority is where if you can get the
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  mid-majority which is like say like.
• 11:38
  20% are the enthusiasm, they're enthusiastic. Then if you could get from like
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  20% to 60%, that's where you're going to start getting whole systems change.
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  So, and there are people that are going to be more willing as you move more
• 11:53
  from the enthusiast because they're going to say good things about your coaching.
• 11:57
  And when you get to that middle ground, you're going to get more people to buy in.
• 12:02
  And if you can get that 60% bought in, There might be that 20% that may not
• 12:07
  be fully bought in, but you're going to have close to 60 to 80% of the school,
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  on board of what you're trying to do and trying to improve in that area,
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  in that focus area, or maybe like two to three things.
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  So that's really critical. And a lot of coaches don't see that at first.
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  And I think leaders need to have conversations with coaches as well to kind of talk about,
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  you know, this is the first set of people that we really want to work with,
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  but we know that they're going to be more willing to try this to start or to
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  refine these practices.
• 12:40
  I would say that the next thing that relates to this, but also is,
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  I think, a little bit different by combining the first tip of the book,
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  active listening, with tip number 11, think less is more.
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  I think that ultimately as a coach, you should be listening more at first in
• 12:59
  your coaching conversations with teachers than actually delivering any coaching
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  because you need to understand that there's a lot of context,
• 13:08
  that goes into a lesson and how they teach.
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  So I think asking questions about, you know, how have you done your backwards
• 13:17
  design and really listening and hearing them out, like talking about the entire
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  process and then going into your lesson, you know, why did you design it this way?
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  Well, you know, the sequence of this hour or two hour lesson,
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  you know, tell me about the process in your thinking as to putting this together.
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  And then, you know, when they're teaching specifically, focus on one or two
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  areas and really just hear them out and ask them, like, why do you do a foot
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  right at the very beginning of the lesson?
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  Or why are you, you know, why are you using a concept math to explain this concept?
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  I mean, I think just the goal in any early coaching conversations is to actively
• 14:01
  listen and learn everything you can about that teacher and build that trust
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  in that relationship. But understand, like, why are they doing things the way that they're doing it?
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  Because then that's going to give you that context that you're going to need
• 14:13
  and that information needs.
• 14:15
  Think about everyone's going to be a little bit different, but you're going
• 14:18
  to have to press certain buttons and you're going to have to focus on certain
• 14:22
  areas that they talk to you about.
• 14:27
  I like more of the dialogical coaching in terms of my coaching style.
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  I like to listen and then hear them speak and then have a dialogue about it
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  versus more of authoritative coaching.
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  But that's just my particular style. And I talk about several different ways
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  of how to have coaching conversations in the book, including those two.
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  But then moving into the thought of once you have that information throughout
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  listening, you want to think less is more.
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  You don't want to focus on too many things in your coaching.
• 14:57
  Focus on one of three things max with a teacher, and then you try to measure those things over time.
• 15:04
  And oftentimes, as new coaches, you try to focus on too many things at once,
• 15:10
  and you're not going to make that growth.
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  And I think in education, we focus on too many things at one time,
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  versus we should focus on really, really high leverage areas that can really
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  support student learning.
• 15:22
  But also, I think it's important to teach teachers practices that are also ways,
• 15:27
  that can help them be more sustainable in their practices and what ways to be more efficient.
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  Like, for example, when I work with ELI teachers, especially at the high school
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  level, I always ask them, I would not recommend reading everyone's entire essay,
• 15:43
  for every single part of it.
• 15:44
  I would say, let's focus on one area that we're working on. you know say we're working on
• 15:49
  finding evidence related to a thesis statement so you're going to look at the
• 15:53
  thesis statement and then a number of areas of evidence you're not going to
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  read almost the entirety of the paper you're going to read parts of it
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  and you're going to be evaluating those pieces because if you're reading the entirety of the paper
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  and assessing every single one it's going to take you hours and hours and hours to do this,
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  versus if we're focused on this,
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  we'll spend a lot less time and then when we provide the whole class feedback
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  or individualized feedback,
• 16:17
  you're going to get a lot more bang for your buck because it's, you know,
• 16:20
  it's only a couple of things that you're assessing and then you can go back
• 16:23
  and reteach that versus focusing on the entirety of the paper and spending all that time.
• 16:30
  And I think just really focusing on practices that not only are effective in
• 16:35
  terms of evidence based, but I think in terms of sustainability are really,
• 16:40
  really important when you're supporting teachers.
• 16:43
  Yeah, I really love that idea of asking, just you talking about listening and
• 16:47
  asking people why, you know, why do you do the things that you do and what,
• 16:51
  just wonder how many have never even thought about why they do it that way or
• 16:56
  how helpful it is to then say, oh, I guess let me, let me do a think aloud about
• 17:01
  why I do that. And that's instructive in itself.
• 17:05
  It really is. That metacognition piece is really critical, I think,
• 17:09
  for a lot of things in life.
• 17:11
  I think a lot of things that we try to answer, we can answer ourselves by thinking
• 17:17
  about what we're thinking and having someone facilitate that in that dialogue.
• 17:21
  Yeah. Well, you talked about coaches that come in cold, coaches that come in
• 17:28
  hot, just those different approaches.
• 17:30
  Is what's a mistake or maybe just a misstep that even an experienced coach might
• 17:35
  make when trying to move a teacher forward and what would be your fix for it?
• 17:40
  I think with teachers that may be a little bit more difficult than you're a
• 17:44
  veteran, I think that you need to really understand, you know,
• 17:50
  this idea of who to coach and when to coach.
• 17:52
  It's kind of like having certain conversations with people when, say, for example,
• 17:58
  this one teacher's going to you want to coach them you know at the beginning
• 18:03
  of the year middle year or versus the end of the year,
• 18:06
  you want to see like when that teacher is going to be I would say especially
• 18:09
  if they're more resistant when's a good time of year when they're least busy
• 18:14
  when are they going to not be as busy as they were in the past and I think,
• 18:19
  some coaches really need to understand when teachers are really busy especially
• 18:25
  certain teachers in different contact areas grade levels like for example we
• 18:29
  just finished in california state testing.
• 18:33
  It's probably not a good time to do a lot of coaching at that time,
• 18:36
  but also, you know, different times of the year for certain teachers,
• 18:40
  it's important to understand,
• 18:43
  you know, what's going on in their classrooms and what are the big challenges that they're having.
• 18:48
  And are they trying to find time when the teacher's under the least amount of
• 18:53
  stress, especially if they are a little bit more, you know, defensive or don't want the coaching?
• 18:59
  I think you've got to find those openings, and sometimes that's not necessarily an easy thing to do.
• 19:05
  Sometimes that takes a lot of experience, understanding.
• 19:09
  It's like the emotional intelligence skill of reading people and understanding,
• 19:15
  what's going on in their schedule and workflow.
• 19:18
  So it's something that is not necessarily an easy thing that someone can do,
• 19:26
  regardless of whether they're new or seasoned in doing that.
• 19:30
  I'm hearing a lot of intentionality about stepping back and reading the room,
• 19:35
  so to speak, but really getting to know the culture of the building and maybe
• 19:38
  the flow of the building when things might slow down a little and what might
• 19:42
  be the prime opportunity
• 19:44
  to work with certain people.
• 19:47
  Yeah 100% and I think that you know as a instructional coach you should be able
• 19:53
  to see the master schedule,
• 19:56
  and really evaluate the master schedule as to why it's set up that way but also
• 20:01
  then you need to be strategic in terms of,
• 20:05
  groups of teachers that you're working with or teachers that you're working
• 20:07
  with that can be best optimized within the constraints of that master schedule.
• 20:11
  Because obviously there's contract, there's union things that you need to take into account.
• 20:17
  But I think that understanding, I mean, it's one of the key facets of when I
• 20:22
  go and talk to school leaders and coaches is that your master schedule is one
• 20:26
  of the biggest, you know, significant pieces of your school culture.
• 20:31
  It tells you what's important versus what's not important when you look at that.
• 20:36
  And trying to find ways to help improve your staff within those constraints,
• 20:41
  it's really key for you to try to navigate.
• 20:45
  So that's really important there. But also I think that when you look at schools,
• 20:51
  you need to figure out as a coach too to develop ways where you're providing
• 20:55
  coaching, even though you might not be physically in those classrooms.
• 20:58
  So I always recommend sending out a bulletin where you're at that week.
• 21:03
  Say, for example, if you're multi-site, you could say, hey, I'm at this site
• 21:06
  for a.m. and p.m. in the afternoon on Tuesday.
• 21:11
  And then I'm here at this site on Wednesday and a.m. But I always like to throw
• 21:15
  a coaching tip or a video in that little newsletter that I send out so they
• 21:20
  could watch, you know, about 30 seconds to a minute.
• 21:23
  Or it can be, I like to do infographics of, you know, a particular teaching
• 21:28
  strategy. I think that's really helpful.
• 21:30
  But then you also have a little website, maybe it's with the district of,
• 21:34
  you know, what's happening with coaching this year? What are we working on?
• 21:39
  And then what are some examples of, you know, whether they're infographics,
• 21:42
  concept maps, as well as videos, so that you can always just pull from that
• 21:45
  each week so that you can have that available whenever and you can send that
• 21:50
  out whenever and refer to it whenever.
• 21:52
  So you have constraints, but when you have information that can be available
• 21:56
  24-7, I think that's really critical.
• 22:01
  Yeah, and then that's a good way to read how people are ready when they want
• 22:04
  to engage in a conversation, maybe about something that was in the newsletter.
• 22:07
  Then that's your door kind of cracking open to maybe say that,
• 22:11
  you know what, this is the right time to go in and coach that person or get
• 22:14
  a cycle set up. Definitely.
• 22:17
  So coaching, we know, can feel isolating at times. It's one of those one-off
• 22:21
  positions when you're often the only coach in a building.
• 22:24
  What do you recommend for coaches to maintain their own energy and avoid burnout
• 22:28
  while pouring into others?
• 22:31
  Yeah. So, I mean, if you're in a district where there's other instructional
• 22:34
  coaches, I hope that you're meeting maybe like once a month or you have a group chat going.
• 22:39
  Or if you're a singleton in your school or district, then I recommend,
• 22:45
  you know, connecting with other coaches on LinkedIn or app slash Twitter.
• 22:52
  There's different coaching through Google has coaching groups as well as does
• 22:57
  other organizations like Digital
• 22:58
  Promise. They had coaching resources and groups that you could join.
• 23:03
  So I think finding people like similar to anything else in life,
• 23:06
  you need to find people that are doing something maybe somewhat similar to you,
• 23:11
  and start meeting, whether that's like monthly or having a group chat going or whatever.
• 23:17
  You know, just a list of people that you can always contact and share your experiences with.
• 23:24
  Because if you can't share your experiences with anyone, then you're not going
• 23:28
  to have maybe that shared understanding or maybe sometimes don't feel like you're
• 23:33
  being listened to because they don't understand fully the work that you're doing.
• 23:38
  So I think finding people that are doing something similar to you is critical.
• 23:42
  And there's a lot of different outlets that you can find that.
• 23:45
  And then for sustainability, I think just in order to not burn out, it's all about systems.
• 23:51
  If you don't have systems, then you're not going to navigate this well.
• 23:56
  So like, for example, one of the systems that I always like is I'm going to
• 24:00
  go do a lot of my on the spot coaching or observations during these times of
• 24:06
  the day, like from nine to 11.
• 24:09
  That's what's happening at that time. That's my non-negotiable.
• 24:13
  I'm not going to get hold of anything else during that time.
• 24:16
  At 3 p.m. or like 2 to 3 p.m., I'm going to sit down and do all my email and
• 24:20
  paperwork. That's my non-negotiable.
• 24:23
  Or, for example, I'm going to
• 24:25
  do coaching cycles where I'm going to do my pre-observations on Mondays.
• 24:30
  I'm going to do my observations on Wednesday that week. And then on Friday,
• 24:34
  I'm going to do my post-observations. I'm going to try and schedule as many as I can.
• 24:39
  Also, for example, like the website, the newsletter, I think is critical that
• 24:42
  you can constantly just be utilizing as well as having a data collection system.
• 24:47
  And I always recommend not try to reinvent the wheel. So if your district has
• 24:53
  a data collection system or if you need to use one yourself,
• 24:57
  I always recommend Connect Hub.
• 24:58
  But I think just it's all based on systems. And if you don't have systems or
• 25:02
  you're not organized, then that's how you're going to create burnout.
• 25:06
  And that goes back again to the very beginning of defining what the coach does,
• 25:11
  because if the coach has more roles than just coaching, they're more likely to burn out.
• 25:16
  So I think it's really, really critical to really define what the coach is doing
• 25:22
  at first and building systems of what that actually looks like.
• 25:27
  Great advice. We're going to jump into the rapid fire portion.
• 25:31
  So in about 10 seconds or less, what's one strategy every coach should have in their back pocket?
• 25:38
  All right. One is, I think, just being able to model the strategy really well
• 25:45
  before you actually go and coach a teacher on that particular strategy.
• 25:49
  Make sure you know you're doing it right before you try to coach it. Yes.
• 25:56
  If you had 60 seconds with a new coach, what's something you would tell them?
• 26:00
  I would say to be visible, actively listen, use AI to help you do a lot of your
• 26:06
  paperwork, and develop systems so that you can create a sustainable practice.
• 26:14
  Thank you so much, Matt. We really enjoyed our conversation today,
• 26:17
  and you had some great advice for all of our coaches.
• 26:20
  Thanks, Matt. Thanks for having me. Matt gave us so many practical tips for
• 26:24
  coaches to start at the school year.
• 26:25
  We're wishing everyone a wonderful 26-27 year.
• 26:29
  Be sure to follow us on social media. Thanks for listening to C3.