Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / JODI ARIAS SELLING ARTWORK FOR THOUSANDS, STABBED LOVER DEAD IN SHOWER

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JODI ARIAS SELLING ARTWORK FOR THOUSANDS, STABBED LOVER DEAD IN SHOWER · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. Incredible. I thought I had
0:10
Speaker 1: misread when I learned convicted killer Jody Arius. Remember her?
0:19
Speaker 1: Jody Arius stabbed her boyfriend Chavis Alexander. There's an argument
0:26
Speaker 1: about how many times she stabbed him dead because there
0:29
Speaker 1: were so many stab wounds close to thirty that they
0:32
Speaker 1: were overlapping each other and you couldn't tell if it
0:36
Speaker 1: was one stab or two or three, and then capped
0:39
Speaker 1: it off by shooting him in the head, leaving him
0:41
Speaker 1: to decompose in a showerstall. Why because he dared to
0:46
Speaker 1: ask another woman on a date after a marathon sex
0:50
Speaker 1: session with Arius. She just couldn't take it. Jody Arius
0:56
Speaker 1: is selling her artwork for one thousands. One of her
1:02
Speaker 1: pieces of art is going for let me check this,
1:06
Speaker 1: Maybe I need glasses for twenty five hundred dollars nearly
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Speaker 1: three thousand dollars. Hey, you know she's just getting a
1:15
Speaker 1: magazine and tracing over it. Right that said, have you
1:19
Speaker 1: ever heard of blood money? I need see Grace. This
1:23
Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.
1:27
Speaker 2: A WorldWind romance between aspiring photographer Jody Arius and salesman
1:34
Speaker 2: Travis Alexander turns sour the explosive pair is on and
1:40
Speaker 2: off again, but this time Travis swears they're done for good.
1:46
Speaker 1: And there's a reason. He swore to his friends he
1:49
Speaker 1: was done with her for good. When we say a stalker,
1:54
Speaker 1: we normally picture a husband or boyfriend and ex looking
1:59
Speaker 1: in your wind, calling you non stop, following you around,
2:03
Speaker 1: putting a GPS tracker on your vehicle. You don't normally
2:06
Speaker 1: think of a woman. Jody are areas like Jody Arias
2:12
Speaker 1: as being a stalker. But oh boy, she was a stalker.
2:16
Speaker 1: And then some you don't believe me. Listen, what's going on?
2:21
Speaker 3: A friend of ours is dead in his bedroom. We
2:24
Speaker 3: hadn't heard from him for a while. We think he's dead.
2:27
Speaker 3: His roommates just going in there, and so they bought
2:30
Speaker 3: some blood. I didn't go in, but I can give
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Speaker 3: you this songe to someone who went in there.
2:35
Speaker 4: Can yes, please?
2:36
Speaker 5: Can you hello?
2:37
Speaker 6: Hi? What's going on?
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Speaker 1: He's dead? He's in his bedroom in the shower.
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Speaker 4: Okay, how did this happen?
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Speaker 7: Do you have any idea?
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Speaker 1: We have no idea.
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Speaker 3: Everyone's been wondering about.
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Speaker 8: Him for a few days.
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Speaker 5: She said that there's blood, so is it coming from
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Speaker 5: his head?
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Speaker 1: Did he.
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Speaker 7: It's all over with me.
2:58
Speaker 1: Renowned expert Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator who has conducted
3:05
Speaker 1: thousands of death investigations, be the natural causes accidents, suicide
3:12
Speaker 1: or homicide. Author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
3:17
Speaker 1: and start of a Hitting You series podcast Body Bags
3:21
Speaker 1: with Joseph Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, You and I went
3:24
Speaker 1: round and around and round about how many times Travick's
3:29
Speaker 1: Alexander was murdered, and we're about to do it again.
3:33
Speaker 1: It's a rematch. But one thing you said at the
3:37
Speaker 1: time of the murder that's stuck with me and I'll
3:41
Speaker 1: never forget it. You described some drops. I don't mean throwback,
3:51
Speaker 1: I don't mean a transfer drops of blood on Travis
3:57
Speaker 1: Alexander's sink the way you described it. I had so
4:03
Speaker 1: many wounds, but these were drops, like around circular drops.
4:08
Speaker 1: And you described how he would have looked into his
4:12
Speaker 1: bathroom mirror and seeing himself dying, hit.
4:18
Speaker 5: The nail on the head. Nancy, and I remember this
4:20
Speaker 5: after all these years thinking back to this, you know
4:25
Speaker 5: those droplets that you're referring to are in fact some
4:29
Speaker 5: are droplets. But Nancy, here's the really ghastly thing about this.
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Speaker 5: Many of these are projected droplets, and it's what's referred
4:37
Speaker 5: to as bloody aspirit. And I'm going to break that
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Speaker 5: down for you, just so people can understand what this
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Speaker 5: man went through after he was initially attacked in the shower.
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Speaker 5: He is aware of this. He leans over the seineking
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Speaker 5: see the contact, the contact points where his hands were
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Speaker 5: on the sink. He's leaning forward looking himself in the mirror,
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Speaker 5: and Nancy, he aspirated blood down into his airway and
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Speaker 5: spit it back out, So he's aspirating blowing it out,
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Speaker 5: and you get these fine little dots of blood that
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Speaker 5: were all all over the place at this point in time.
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Speaker 5: And it's a horrible event to imagine. This guy's just
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Speaker 5: taking a shower. Can you imagine suddenly you're getting stabbed
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Speaker 5: in the back by this demon and name Jon And.
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Speaker 1: You know he was found decomposing in the shower. But
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Speaker 1: I'm looking at the sink and I will never forget
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Speaker 1: this photo. And if you look to the left of
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Speaker 1: the faucet, toward the front of the sink, you see
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Speaker 1: two of the dropped drops you were describing. And then
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Speaker 1: if you go right, you see another drop. Now it's
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Speaker 1: amazing to me that you, as a death scene investigator,
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Speaker 1: could distinguish the difference between those drops and all the
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Speaker 1: other blood. But now that you told me about it,
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Speaker 1: I see it. I'm looking up at the stars and
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Speaker 1: if you don't know what you're doing, you can't see
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Speaker 1: the constellations. Looking at this blood tells a story, and
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Speaker 1: you can even determine which blood was aspiration. In other words,
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Speaker 1: he was bleeding. When he breathed out of his mouth
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Speaker 1: or nose, you would get a fine spray, especially from
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Speaker 1: the nose of blood.
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Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, you're absolutely right with this, Nancy, and he
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Speaker 5: would be bearing witness to this. This is one of
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Speaker 5: the issues with me, after we've covered this for so
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Speaker 5: many years. He's actually eyeballing himself in the mirror. He
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Speaker 5: has not lost his sight, his ability to see. If
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Speaker 5: you can imagine, he's slowly bleeding out, he has an
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Speaker 5: awareness he's getting lightheaded, but he's also regurgitating blood and
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Speaker 5: blowing it out. At the same time, you've got passive droplets,
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Speaker 5: which like a bloody nose, kind of dropped downward, and
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Speaker 5: then you have these projected droplets that are very far
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Speaker 5: hold on.
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Speaker 1: Scott it's just I compare it to the scene and
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Speaker 1: arson where accelerant is used. You can tell where the
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Speaker 1: fire started because you'll see excellerant or you'll see the major,
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Speaker 1: major portion of the burning, the most destruction in that
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Speaker 1: spot where the fire started. And here in the shower,
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Speaker 1: that's where we see an abundance of blood. So would
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Speaker 1: you agree that's where it started or what would you
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Speaker 1: what do you think?
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Speaker 5: Well, what you're seeing here is passive blood flow and
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Speaker 5: a lot of this is decomposing as well. But draw
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Speaker 5: your attention to the right aspect to the shower wall.
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Speaker 5: There when he was placed into that shower, that's actually
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Speaker 5: probably where his shoulder was resting, that kind of swipe
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Speaker 5: that you have right there, and then the settling of
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Speaker 5: the dark blood headed down the drain. That's a combination
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Speaker 5: of the seepage of the blood and also combination of
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Speaker 5: decompositional fluid. She left this guy to literally decompose in
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Speaker 5: his own bathroom, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: There are very few people that can follow an explanation
8:02
Speaker 1: by Joe Scott Morgan. But before I go to Andy Cohn,
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Speaker 1: I want you to hear what pops up immediately in
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Speaker 1: the nine one one call.
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Speaker 4: You're a good friend of Travis's. Okay, Has he been depressed.
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Speaker 6: At all thinking about any suicide anything like that.
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Speaker 4: I don't think he'd been community to say he's been
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Speaker 4: really depressed because he broke up with this girl and
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Speaker 4: he was allset about that, But I don't think he
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Speaker 4: would actually kill himself over that.
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Speaker 1: Has he been threatened by anyone recently?
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Speaker 4: Who he has? He has an ex girlfriend that's been
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Speaker 4: bothering him and following him and flashing tires and things
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Speaker 4: like that.
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Speaker 1: As you know, the ex girlfriend's name.
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Speaker 3: His her name is Jody.
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Speaker 1: And there you go, right then, and the nine to
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Speaker 1: one one called doctor Bethany Marshall. There you're hearing doctor
8:49
Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall, renown psycho analyst, joining us out of la
8:52
Speaker 1: at Dr Bethany Marshall dot com. She appears in the
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Speaker 1: show Paris in Love on Peacock. She's everywhere. Her book
9:00
Speaker 1: deal Breaker, When to work on a relationship and when
9:03
Speaker 1: to walk away, specifically pertinent to today's material, today's case. I
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Speaker 1: cannot believe this woman is selling artwork for nearly three
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Speaker 1: thousand dollars per sketch. That's a whole nother cannel can
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Speaker 1: I talk to you about the stalking. Remember those photos
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Speaker 1: of Jody Arias warning everybody just go ahead and buckle
9:30
Speaker 1: your seat belt. The jury saw this, as did I.
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Speaker 1: Jody aria is all sprawled down. I can't remember she
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Speaker 1: had on underwear or was naked, but anyway, on his
9:39
Speaker 1: bed they had Oh dep is that her I had
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Speaker 1: to turn upside down? Is that the day of the
9:45
Speaker 1: marathon sex session. There's some a lot more racy than that. Anyway,
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Speaker 1: she has a marathon sex session with Travis Alexander, not judging,
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Speaker 1: don't care. But it's only after all day in the
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Speaker 1: South that she says, so you're still taking that woman
10:04
Speaker 1: to CanKan on that trip? He goes, yeah, these two
10:09
Speaker 1: were broken up. She had no right to demand he
10:12
Speaker 1: not date other people. They were broken up over her stocking,
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Speaker 1: slashing his tires, showing up at his house, leaving cinnabon
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Speaker 1: on his car at five o'clock in the morning, under
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Speaker 1: the pretext of getting him breakfast bs. She's trying to
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Speaker 1: find out he might spend the night over at his place.
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Speaker 1: He goes on and on and on.
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Speaker 8: Bethany, you know, Nancy, he's doing what.
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Speaker 1: Abuse victims do.
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Speaker 8: He's welcoming the abuser right back into the home because
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Speaker 8: she convinces him that she's not going to hurt him.
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Speaker 8: So all of this marathon sex. She probably has borderline
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Speaker 8: sociopathic personality disorder, and women who are borderline you was
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Speaker 8: sex to hook the other person in to have control
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Speaker 8: over them. She probably had what we call merger fantasies
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Speaker 8: in my feet. This is somebody who's so disturbed they
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Speaker 8: want to merge into the love object. They want to
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Speaker 8: be one with that person. Any separation between them and
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Speaker 8: that person, even if that person picks up the phone
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Speaker 8: or calls their mother or goes away with somebody else,
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Speaker 8: feels like a under abandonment and a betrayal. And when
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Speaker 8: they feel abandoned, they feel deflated. And when they feel deflated,
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Speaker 8: they become enraged. Women with orderline personality disorder, they have
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Speaker 8: this oceanic rage that leads to plotting and planning, and
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Speaker 8: plotting and planning. She was probably planning this for a
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Speaker 8: long long time, and I'm imagining that marathon sex session.
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Speaker 8: She probably thought that they had an unique and special relationship,
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Speaker 8: that he was going to come back to her, and
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Speaker 8: then when he was honest, which I admired him for
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Speaker 8: and said, I'm going on this vacation. She just snapped.
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Speaker 8: Her emotions outpaced her ability to think. What's interesting about
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Speaker 8: the sand you just played. The roommates knew that Jody
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Speaker 8: Arius was going to do this. Remember that party, Nancy,
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Speaker 8: We all covered this where they were all hanging out,
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Speaker 8: I think at the apartment and she either had her
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Speaker 8: head in his lap or his legs across his lap.
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Speaker 8: They say she was marking her territory. She belonged to
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Speaker 8: her and nobody else in her mind.
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Speaker 1: And it's always amazing to me that people can name
12:27
Speaker 1: the killer in the nine on one call. It's like
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Speaker 1: everybody knows. Of course that's not evidence, can't come in
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Speaker 1: as evidence. But when I have ten people saying she
12:38
Speaker 1: did it, I listen crime stories with Nancy Grace joining
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Speaker 1: me right now. Is a very special guest, a longtime
12:57
Speaker 1: colleague that has become a friend. And as weird as
13:02
Speaker 1: it may sound, we bonded over toenails, not his toenails,
13:08
Speaker 1: not my toenails, but the toenails of on Hell on
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Speaker 1: Hell Ramirez. Correct, wasn't that his name? Or on Hell
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Speaker 1: Resendez Ramirez. What I know is he's a serial killer
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Speaker 1: selling his toenails from behind bars and people actually paid
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Speaker 1: for it. When you told me that, I said a
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Speaker 1: technical legal term BS, I don't know, come to my office.
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Speaker 1: I followed you, and your office at that time was
13:39
Speaker 1: like a treasure show trope. Now let me say a
13:43
Speaker 1: Pandora's box, okay of evils of all these people around
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Speaker 1: the country that were selling murder rebelia and you you
13:53
Speaker 1: coined that phrase. I stole it, but you made that
13:58
Speaker 1: up and now oh Arius is doing it.
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Speaker 9: Yeah. I mean, you had this giant industry that's sprung
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Speaker 9: up primarily from the Internet, in which you have serial killers,
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Speaker 9: mass murders, school shooters, high profile killers like Yoda Areas
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Speaker 9: who like it or not, has a big name, she
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Speaker 9: has a following, and they have found a way to
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Speaker 9: continue to enable their narcissistic behavior. I mean, obviously she
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Speaker 9: has a giant ego and she is simply selling her artwork.
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Speaker 9: No one should be able to rob, rape, and murder
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Speaker 9: then turn around and make a buck off it.
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Speaker 7: I don't care.
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Speaker 9: You know, if you're a firm believer in capitalism or whatever,
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Speaker 9: this is where you've got to draw the line and
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Speaker 9: the buck has to stop here. You cannot continue to
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Speaker 9: allow a convicted murderer to essentially operate a business behind
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Speaker 9: prison bars. I'm just absolutely shocked because most of the time,
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Speaker 9: in my research and dealings, most of the time prisons
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Speaker 9: are not aware that a particular inmate is selling their
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Speaker 9: goods through third parties. But the Arizona Department the Corrections
15:01
Speaker 9: is completely complicit because they're aware of it, and they're
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Speaker 9: just shrugging their shoulders saying, there's nothing we can do
15:08
Speaker 9: to quote you, Nancy. That's bs because most prisons have
15:13
Speaker 9: policies in the prison that state you cannot operate a
15:19
Speaker 9: business unless you have their permission.
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Speaker 1: I cannot believe.
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Speaker 9: That the Arizona Department of Corrections would give their permission
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Speaker 9: to allow Jody Arius to profit from killing Travis Alexander.
15:33
Speaker 9: That is absolutely absurd. I've not seen that in my
15:37
Speaker 9: twenty five years of researching this industry.
15:39
Speaker 8: His bedroom is ware in the house.
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Speaker 3: It's upstairs, and if you go up the stairs, it's
15:47
Speaker 3: on the left. It's the first door on your left.
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Speaker 3: It's the only door on your left, okay, and it's
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Speaker 3: just a big master sweet paging that day.
16:00
Speaker 10: And.
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Speaker 3: She's talking to his friend right now and there's a
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Speaker 3: girl that sends stocking him and then and she's trying
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Speaker 3: and he's trying to, uh, you might know with some information.
16:17
Speaker 3: I hope my phone doesn't. I'm on like one bar
16:19
Speaker 3: of battery.
16:20
Speaker 4: Okay, Well, I'm just going to keep you on the
16:22
Speaker 4: phone until.
16:22
Speaker 3: Officers are right, either officers or pyramids arrive. Okay, okay,
16:25
Speaker 3: I think I can hear the same.
16:29
Speaker 11: Where he is.
16:30
Speaker 2: Travis Alexander. Friends haven't heard from him for days. They're
16:34
Speaker 2: supposed to take off for Cancun in only a matter
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Speaker 2: of hours, but Travis is nowhere to be found.
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Speaker 1: What happened to Travis Alexander we know now his then
16:47
Speaker 1: lover spurned, who had been stalking him, murdered him in
16:52
Speaker 1: a brutal fashion. The brutality I've seen a lot of murders,
16:58
Speaker 1: and the murder Travis Alexander is one of the most
17:02
Speaker 1: brutal murders I've ever seen. Now she's selling her artwork online. Wait,
17:10
Speaker 1: this is her artwork, not mine. Here you go. There's
17:14
Speaker 1: a lady straddling a man. I'm not the church lady.
17:16
Speaker 1: I don't care, but I don't like Arias making money
17:19
Speaker 1: off of it. Take a look at her. Oh, there's
17:22
Speaker 1: a self portrait at PERivale prison. Guess that's what she thinks.
17:27
Speaker 1: She looks like, Okay, there you go. I didn't know
17:30
Speaker 1: they had fingernail polish. But behind bars see the nature
17:35
Speaker 1: of her art. Check it out Jody Arius's art work.
17:42
Speaker 1: Now you heard Andy Kahn joining us saying that the
17:46
Speaker 1: jail is turning a blind eye. And I agree. She's
17:50
Speaker 1: not creating art for her own enjoyment or fulfillment. She's
17:55
Speaker 1: creating it to sell it. Now what she's doing the
18:00
Speaker 1: money that, I don't know, but she is selling this
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Speaker 1: art and it is blood money. What happened? Listen to this.
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Speaker 12: I was actually watching a movie with my girlfriend at
18:13
Speaker 12: the time or my wife now, and.
18:17
Speaker 11: I remember getting a knock on my door and.
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Speaker 12: Travis's friends came to the door and they said, have
18:24
Speaker 12: you seen Travis? And I said, well, no, I haven't
18:27
Speaker 12: seen Travis. He's supposed to be in CanCon or out
18:30
Speaker 12: on vacation right now. And they said, yes he is,
18:33
Speaker 12: but he's supposed to be here with me with Mimi,
18:37
Speaker 12: And so I said, well, have you checked his bedroom?
18:39
Speaker 11: And that was my first thought.
18:42
Speaker 12: So they said, well, no, we have in the doors locked,
18:44
Speaker 12: and I said, I think he keeps a spare set
18:45
Speaker 12: of keys downstairs.
18:47
Speaker 11: So I went downstairs and I searched for him.
18:49
Speaker 12: And grabbed a few sets of keys and came back
18:51
Speaker 12: upstairs and tried a few different sets of keys, and
18:53
Speaker 12: one of them happened to be his bedroom key.
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Speaker 11: And as soon as the door was opened, my heart
19:01
Speaker 11: just seeing.
19:01
Speaker 1: And listen to more of what Travis's friend Zach billings
19:07
Speaker 1: tennels me.
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Speaker 12: She came up to me and gave me a big
19:10
Speaker 12: hug and just said, I'm you know, isn't this just horrible?
19:13
Speaker 12: I'm so sorry you had to go through that. And
19:15
Speaker 12: she asked me where I was living at the time,
19:19
Speaker 12: and that was about the extent of our interaction after
19:23
Speaker 12: that point.
19:24
Speaker 1: Did she ask you any questions regarding your discovery of
19:27
Speaker 1: the body?
19:30
Speaker 12: She asked me, just a brief of what happened, as
19:35
Speaker 12: far as my interaction with as far as my interaction
19:42
Speaker 12: with anybody else. Had the police talk to me? And
19:46
Speaker 12: she already knew at that point that I had seen
19:48
Speaker 12: the body, and just asked what the process was going through,
19:50
Speaker 12: what I was going through.
19:52
Speaker 1: Joining me now. Susan Hendricks, investigative journalist, author of a
19:56
Speaker 1: brand new book, Down the Hill Mine Descent to the
19:59
Speaker 1: double murder in Delvi. Susan, thank you for being with us.
20:03
Speaker 1: Explain to me where is Jody Arius and how is
20:08
Speaker 1: she enabled to sell her art for a profit online?
20:13
Speaker 6: Yeah, Nancy, good to be here. I couldn't believe it
20:15
Speaker 6: when I heard it. And I remember covering with you
20:18
Speaker 6: the Jody Arias trial day in and day out, and
20:21
Speaker 6: the day she was called to that stand, and everything
20:25
Speaker 6: she said on the stand. I put nothing past her,
20:27
Speaker 6: revictimizing his family has seven siblings, over and over again.
20:33
Speaker 6: Remember this, Nancy, the headstand. I would put nothing past her.
20:37
Speaker 6: I also remember her walking in claiming she was an
20:40
Speaker 6: abuse victim, holding up a T shirt that said survivor
20:44
Speaker 6: on it, then begging the jurors for her life, and
20:47
Speaker 6: showing a slide show of her artwork. So I put
20:51
Speaker 6: nothing past her. I just wish she would donate the
20:53
Speaker 6: money to the family members of Travis. I remember her saying,
20:57
Speaker 6: I'll help people, please spare my life. I'll do good.
20:59
Speaker 6: And well, what is she doing that's so good except
21:02
Speaker 6: benefiting herself off the murder of.
21:04
Speaker 1: Travis and Susan having a string of love lorn men
21:10
Speaker 1: trying to get her affection. Why I do not know,
21:13
Speaker 1: but I guarantee you this much. They all send her money.
21:16
Speaker 1: Derek Smith joining me high profile criminal defense attorney and
21:19
Speaker 1: you can find him it d WS. D W Smith Legal,
21:24
Speaker 1: repeat d W Smith Legal. Derek, you know your way
21:29
Speaker 1: around the courtroom. What and the hate went wrong? Because
21:34
Speaker 1: you know, I guess you have to play the cards.
21:37
Speaker 1: That's delcha because her attorney and I've spoke many many times.
21:42
Speaker 1: At first she claimed she had no idea what happened,
21:47
Speaker 1: what I wasn't there. Then she was tracked across the desert.
21:52
Speaker 1: She actually filled up big tanks of gas put them
21:58
Speaker 1: in her trunk so she would be spotted at a
22:00
Speaker 1: gas station. She goes all the way across the desert
22:04
Speaker 1: to get to Travis Alexander. She gets there, then she
22:09
Speaker 1: waits for it. Derek Smith, I could just see you
22:11
Speaker 1: doing a backflip when you find out about this elence
22:13
Speaker 1: it it's your client. She had a digital camera that
22:17
Speaker 1: she was using to take naughty photos off herself during
22:22
Speaker 1: their sex marathon, and Ding Dong put it in the
22:26
Speaker 1: washing machine. The digitkam and the cops find it and
22:30
Speaker 1: guess what it survived, and they actually see a picture
22:35
Speaker 1: of her foot and leg in the photo, and then
22:40
Speaker 1: those clothes she was wearing in that photo are traced
22:42
Speaker 1: back to her. So first she says, I went there.
22:46
Speaker 1: I don't know anything about it. Then the digikim shows
22:49
Speaker 1: up in the washer and she goes, okay, I was
22:51
Speaker 1: there and two ninjas. I think it was too just
22:55
Speaker 1: all in black. Of course for dramatic flare broke in,
23:01
Speaker 1: they kill him, I run for it. And then by
23:03
Speaker 1: the end she climbed, Oh it was self defense. What
23:06
Speaker 1: do you do with that? Derek Smith?
23:07
Speaker 13: Oh, you've seen this many times before, dealing with you know,
23:12
Speaker 13: victims and on the prosecutorial side, and of course on
23:16
Speaker 13: the defensive side, stories change all the time. When you
23:19
Speaker 13: have just mountains of evidence against the defendant, in this
23:24
Speaker 13: case self preservation. You know, the first thing is deny, deny, deny,
23:29
Speaker 13: and then the second thing is okay, I'm caught.
23:31
Speaker 8: How am I going to get out of this?
23:32
Speaker 13: And you can tell the rabbit hole that these defendants
23:35
Speaker 13: dig themselves deeper and deeper, and then once they get
23:37
Speaker 13: to me or someone.
23:38
Speaker 8: Like me on the defense, what are we going to do?
23:41
Speaker 13: You've already pretty much buried yourself, and all we can
23:44
Speaker 13: do is try to mitigate at this point, you know,
23:46
Speaker 13: work with the prosecution, work with you know, the detectives,
23:50
Speaker 13: the police officers, and I mean they do a good
23:54
Speaker 13: enough job to find this evidence that these defendants think, Hey,
23:56
Speaker 13: I'm smarter than them. I'm going to be able to,
23:58
Speaker 13: like you say, throw this but it's in the washing
24:00
Speaker 13: machine and the driver get rid of it. No, sorry,
24:02
Speaker 13: it doesn't work like that. Our detectives in our law
24:05
Speaker 13: enforcement are much better than the defendants.
24:08
Speaker 1: Derek Smith is joining US high profile lawyer in Ohio's
24:13
Speaker 1: tried a lot of cases. Is at d W Smith
24:17
Speaker 1: Legal dot com. Derek, can I just get you to
24:21
Speaker 1: confess to a common defense tactic, and that is you say, no, no,
24:28
Speaker 1: we had nothing to do with it, and you're kind
24:30
Speaker 1: of stalling waiting to see what the state's evidence is
24:33
Speaker 1: going to be. And then let's just pretend you find
24:38
Speaker 1: a fingerprint. Then you go, okay, yeah, you know what,
24:41
Speaker 1: I was there, but not the day of the murder.
24:44
Speaker 1: Oh no, I was dating him, and so my fingerprints
24:47
Speaker 1: are all over that place, all right. Then you find
24:51
Speaker 1: out about the digikim with the date and the time
24:54
Speaker 1: stamp on it. Then you say something like oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
24:59
Speaker 1: that's not my digit caam. Then you see her face
25:01
Speaker 1: on it, and you know, okay, that is my digitcam.
25:04
Speaker 1: But those pictures were from a different time and obviously
25:09
Speaker 1: the time and date stamp are wrong. Okay, then that's
25:12
Speaker 1: disproved that. I mean, do you tailor your defense based
25:18
Speaker 1: on the state's evidence as in Unfolds?
25:21
Speaker 13: Of course, you know that. I mean, ideally, we tell
25:26
Speaker 13: our clients not to speak. They have a right to
25:30
Speaker 13: not talk. The more they talk, generally, the more they
25:34
Speaker 13: can damage the case. It is our job as defense
25:37
Speaker 13: attorneys to sort through the evidence to make sure that
25:40
Speaker 13: everything was done constitutionally, and then speak with our clients
25:44
Speaker 13: to figure out, you know what, how did this evidence
25:45
Speaker 13: get there? How are your fingerprints there? Why are these
25:48
Speaker 13: videos of you there? And then Taylor defense accordingly, Andrew.
25:57
Speaker 11: How did this happen?
25:58
Speaker 1: Do you have any idea?
26:00
Speaker 4: Yeah, that girlfriend's been bothering him. He's following him and
26:03
Speaker 4: shouting hired and things like that.
26:05
Speaker 3: There is a Jill that sends doctor who he's bringing
26:09
Speaker 3: to Jody.
26:11
Speaker 1: And now Jody Arius who stabbed Travis Alexander unarmed Travis
26:17
Speaker 1: Alexander while he's in the shower. Joe Scott, what's your
26:22
Speaker 1: final tally? Now, after many discussions with me about how
26:26
Speaker 1: many times he was.
26:27
Speaker 5: Stabbed, it has to me at least thirty. It's hard,
26:30
Speaker 5: it's indeterminate, but there's injuries you're missing here, Nancy, if
26:34
Speaker 5: you want to go down this brutal road, he wasn't
26:36
Speaker 5: just stabbed. He had his throat cut from ear to ear.
26:39
Speaker 5: Oh and by the way, I don't know folks notice this,
26:43
Speaker 5: but those pictures of his ankles, I've often held that
26:48
Speaker 5: while he was trying to escape from her, when he's
26:51
Speaker 5: in that hallway, that little walkway there, she stomped on
26:55
Speaker 5: this man's ankles while he was there to try to
26:58
Speaker 5: keep him down. Oh and by the way, if that
27:00
Speaker 5: wasn't enough, she takes a pistol and after he's dead.
27:04
Speaker 5: And I still hold that this was a postmortem shot,
27:07
Speaker 5: because there's no hemorrhage in the wound track, she shot
27:10
Speaker 5: him in the head and then drags him back to
27:14
Speaker 5: the shower and leaves like the coward.
27:17
Speaker 11: That she was.
27:18
Speaker 1: I started to comment on one of the aspects of
27:22
Speaker 1: your answer, but just the brutality, the brutality that she
27:28
Speaker 1: inflicted upon him, and now she wants us to buy
27:33
Speaker 1: her art and line her pockets. I don't know what
27:37
Speaker 1: she's Susan Hendricks joining US investigative journalist and author. What
27:41
Speaker 1: does she spend it on?
27:43
Speaker 6: I know I was wondering that too. At first I
27:46
Speaker 6: thought it maybe would fall under the son of Sam law,
27:48
Speaker 6: but maybe because it's not directly connected to the crime.
27:54
Speaker 1: But it's just horrific.
27:55
Speaker 6: I wonder if she has that money and has extra
27:58
Speaker 6: I don't know, commissary some money in prison to do
28:02
Speaker 6: what she wants to do. And I did hear that
28:04
Speaker 6: one of the guards even bought one of them of
28:07
Speaker 6: the cow I believe.
28:08
Speaker 8: So it's just it's.
28:10
Speaker 1: Yes, I was reading about that. I think one of
28:13
Speaker 1: the guards quote inspired it because under her prince she
28:17
Speaker 1: explains what inspired the art. Okay, everybody get your barf
28:23
Speaker 1: bag ready, because not only is she quite the artiste
28:26
Speaker 1: making a lot of money, she's also a singer. Now
28:31
Speaker 1: hold on, let's see if she hits the high note. Listen, oh.
28:36
Speaker 8: Angels, oh no.
28:42
Speaker 1: Dee bite.
28:48
Speaker 6: When Christ was.
28:51
Speaker 8: Oh no.
28:54
Speaker 9: Dee.
28:57
Speaker 1: I guess she hit it in a way. To you,
29:00
Speaker 1: Andy Kahn, this woman, this woman think about it, Andy,
29:08
Speaker 1: looks are deceiving. Have you seen that string of photos
29:11
Speaker 1: that are being shown of her looking really pretty? She's
29:16
Speaker 1: not really pretty because the way I imagine her, the
29:20
Speaker 1: way I envisioned her, is the truth of her leaving
29:25
Speaker 1: the scene of the murder literally dripping and blood, and
29:30
Speaker 1: then hopping in a car as the blood dried under
29:34
Speaker 1: her fingernails, and driving to the next lover where she
29:39
Speaker 1: literally hopped on him and straddled him, which is evocative
29:43
Speaker 1: of one of her photo one of her paintings so called.
29:48
Speaker 1: I mean, just.
29:49
Speaker 9: What, Here's what's missing from this, Travis Alexander. This is
29:54
Speaker 9: all about Jody Arius. Can you imagine what family members
29:59
Speaker 9: friends of Rabs Alexander are now going through. It is
30:03
Speaker 9: probably one of the most nauseating and disgusting feelings in
30:06
Speaker 9: the world when you find out the person who murdered
30:09
Speaker 9: your loved one now has items being hot on the
30:13
Speaker 9: world Wide Web for pure profit, simply because she murdered him.
30:18
Speaker 9: That is the only reason why she is relevant. And
30:21
Speaker 9: all this does is feeds into her insatiable ego for
30:26
Speaker 9: the life of me Arizona Department of Corrections and I
30:29
Speaker 9: hope you hear me loudly and clearly. You have powers.
30:33
Speaker 9: She is an inmate in your prison. How in that
30:36
Speaker 9: hell can you allow her to ship out artwork and
30:40
Speaker 9: have prison guards also coming abye for visits, commenting and
30:45
Speaker 9: buying her artwork. Shame on you, Arizona Department of Corrections,
30:49
Speaker 9: because you're the one that's allowing her to continue to
30:53
Speaker 9: feel relevant by having her name in the public. And
30:56
Speaker 9: why we're doing this show, I don't care. You just
30:59
Speaker 9: shouldn't be able to rob, rape and murder and turn
31:01
Speaker 9: around and make a buck off. It's that simplistic. And
31:04
Speaker 9: Jodi eras this should be the last time we talk
31:07
Speaker 9: about her.
31:08
Speaker 1: I know for a fact, Andy that the jail, the prison,
31:12
Speaker 1: the CI Correctional Institute in which she's being held does
31:15
Speaker 1: know about her artwork. I mean, if you can believe
31:18
Speaker 1: anything she says, and I guess you got to take
31:21
Speaker 1: it with a box assault because she writes underneath the
31:25
Speaker 1: cow painting, an officer interested in the painting's progress kept
31:30
Speaker 1: asking how it was coming along. She said it several
31:35
Speaker 1: times and it.
31:37
Speaker 9: Years ago when jeff Years ago, when Jeffrey Dahmer was
31:41
Speaker 9: killed in prison, a prison guard cleaned out his prison
31:44
Speaker 9: well and then sold his shaving kit online. That prison
31:48
Speaker 9: guard was fired.
31:49
Speaker 1: You know, we're looking at so called artwork. I think
31:54
Speaker 1: what she does is gets stock photos and then traces them.
31:58
Speaker 1: But that said, what more do we know, Sysan Hendricks.
32:02
Speaker 1: I know that she also stated that she gets hungry
32:05
Speaker 1: behind bars and wants more commissary money. I know that
32:10
Speaker 1: she has a long list of lonely hearts that write
32:15
Speaker 1: her and she strings them along. They also send her money.
32:19
Speaker 6: Yeah, who cares most about Jody is Jody Arius And
32:23
Speaker 6: she's able, maybe because of the way she looks. Her
32:25
Speaker 6: demeanor very different than the monstrous crime scene that we saw,
32:29
Speaker 6: and she's able, it appears to get what she wants,
32:33
Speaker 6: saying please. I remember during the trial she didn't want
32:36
Speaker 6: the death sentence. At first she did, then she didn't
32:38
Speaker 6: say please, don't do this. My family will hurt, projecting
32:41
Speaker 6: onto them. Meanwhile, all she cares about is herself and benefiting.
32:45
Speaker 6: She's hungry in prison, eat prison food. I'm sorry, that's
32:48
Speaker 6: what a convicted murderer should eat, not benefiting and having
32:52
Speaker 6: the families hurt. Once again, she seems to get away
32:56
Speaker 6: with a whole lot even in prison.
33:04
Speaker 2: A WorldWind Romance between aspiring photographer Jody Arius and salesman
33:11
Speaker 2: Travis Alexander turns sour. The explosive pair is on and
33:17
Speaker 2: off again, but this time Travis swears they're done for good.
33:23
Speaker 1: Joining me renown psychoanalyst doctor Bethany Marshall joining us from
33:27
Speaker 1: La not only author but also appears regularly in Paris
33:34
Speaker 1: in Love on Peacock. Doctor Bethany listened to this.
33:37
Speaker 7: You would complain about her, you know, little things here
33:40
Speaker 7: and there. He never told me about the big things.
33:43
Speaker 7: Because if he told me about the big things, like
33:45
Speaker 7: flashing his tires and stealing things from his house, you know,
33:50
Speaker 7: I would have been like I told you, did I
33:51
Speaker 7: tell you?
33:52
Speaker 6: Didn't?
33:52
Speaker 7: I tell you? She was nuts? So he wouldn't. He
33:54
Speaker 7: would never tell me about the big like really violating
33:58
Speaker 7: psychotic things.
33:59
Speaker 11: That she was.
34:00
Speaker 1: Now you're hearing Travis's roommate Chris Hugh speaking to me.
34:04
Speaker 1: Listen to more.
34:05
Speaker 7: He was saying things to her like, you hurt me
34:07
Speaker 7: worse than the passing of my own father. You're a
34:09
Speaker 7: terrible person, You're despicable, You're the devil daughter. I mean,
34:13
Speaker 7: he was so angry about something and we don't know
34:16
Speaker 7: what exactie what that was. She just sat there and
34:20
Speaker 7: took it. And later she comes back online and says
34:24
Speaker 7: two things that you're wrong about. I didn't steal your
34:27
Speaker 7: journals and I didn't slash your tires. She didn't defend
34:30
Speaker 7: herself against all the other things that he said about her.
34:34
Speaker 7: And when I saw that, I just said to myself,
34:36
Speaker 7: you know what, that's her trying to cover up for
34:39
Speaker 7: what she's about.
34:40
Speaker 1: To do to doctor Bethany. Apparently the roommates noticed that
34:44
Speaker 1: she would follow him to the bathroom, that she would
34:49
Speaker 1: then when he would go to the restroom, she would
34:52
Speaker 1: follow him out of the room and then go and
34:55
Speaker 1: rifle through his stuff in his bedroom. Eves drop on
34:59
Speaker 1: his car conversations. I mean, it never ended with this woman.
35:03
Speaker 8: You know, Nancy. She was pathologically jealous. That's why she
35:06
Speaker 8: killed him because she knew he was about to go
35:08
Speaker 8: on the vacation with another woman. So she was rifling
35:12
Speaker 8: through all of his journals because she wanted to get intel.
35:14
Speaker 8: She wanted to get information. You know, she may have
35:17
Speaker 8: stopped or even contacted the other women. You know, she
35:21
Speaker 8: manipulated him with sex before she killed him. And I
35:24
Speaker 8: see this artwork as one big manipulation to the public.
35:29
Speaker 8: She minimizes the painous nature of what she did. The
35:33
Speaker 8: cow is in a pastoral scene. She looks like she's
35:36
Speaker 8: on vacation behind prison bars with this cute little bucket
35:40
Speaker 8: cap and you know, madging orange shirt. In one scene
35:44
Speaker 8: she's walking into like almost like a Mendeala type setting
35:47
Speaker 8: that's very spiritual. She looks like Barbie in another picture.
35:52
Speaker 8: And she also cares skulls with flowers. Now I know
35:55
Speaker 8: that sort of.
35:56
Speaker 14: View of Del Martees, which is very typical if that
35:59
Speaker 14: selebration in Latin America.
36:01
Speaker 8: However, when you pair flowers.
36:06
Speaker 14: With a skull, it's like your favorite phrase, my favorite
36:09
Speaker 14: phrase that you always say, dancing putting perfume on the pig.
36:13
Speaker 14: It's really minimizing what a skull looks like and what
36:17
Speaker 14: gets a person to the point where their flesh has
36:20
Speaker 14: decomposed and they are nothing on a skull.
36:23
Speaker 8: So she's turning the heinous nature of the crime into
36:27
Speaker 8: its opposite, like it's just rainbows and unicorns. And I
36:31
Speaker 8: think that even seeing a Christmas ham, which happens to
36:34
Speaker 8: be one of my favorites, that's really manipulative, as she's
36:38
Speaker 8: like choir girl. So look at that picture right there,
36:42
Speaker 8: doesn't that have a spiritual quality? Like she's just the
36:45
Speaker 8: most spiritual person on the baby plant.
36:47
Speaker 1: You know what's really crazy is everybody seemed to know
36:52
Speaker 1: what Areas was up to, including Travis Alexander.
36:55
Speaker 7: Listen, guy, passionately, you're saying, Travis, you'll understand, I think
37:00
Speaker 7: she's dangerous, and he was saying dangerously kidding she wouldn't
37:03
Speaker 7: hurt a fly, You guys, she's so sweet, she's so nice,
37:07
Speaker 7: and right as he's defending her, Sky put her finger
37:11
Speaker 7: to her lips just to tell us to be quiet,
37:13
Speaker 7: and then she pointed at the door and she lips
37:16
Speaker 7: she's out there, and Travis rips the door open, and
37:20
Speaker 7: there's Jodyarius with her face to the door, listening to
37:23
Speaker 7: our conversation at midnight upstairs on the opposite end of
37:26
Speaker 7: the house.
37:28
Speaker 11: Where he is.
37:29
Speaker 2: Travis Alexander friends haven't heard from him for days. They're
37:33
Speaker 2: supposed to take off for Cancun in only a matter
37:36
Speaker 2: of hours, but Travis is nowhere to be found.
37:41
Speaker 1: There were so many aerie warnings from friends and family
37:47
Speaker 1: about what was to come. Listen, and we caught her again.
37:51
Speaker 7: I said, Travis's case in point bro, Like, that's what
37:54
Speaker 7: I'm talking about.
37:54
Speaker 6: Who does that?
37:56
Speaker 7: Who does that? Normal people don't do that. If you
37:58
Speaker 7: don't get it, there's nothing I mean, there's nothing more
38:00
Speaker 7: I can do. But what guy said was she said, Travis,
38:04
Speaker 7: we're afraid we're going to find you chopped up in
38:07
Speaker 7: her freezer joining me.
38:08
Speaker 1: Andy Kahn, director of Victims Services at Crime Stoppers in Houston. Andy,
38:13
Speaker 1: how many times have we seen murder victims where their
38:18
Speaker 1: friends and family would say, you got to get out
38:21
Speaker 1: of this. She he is going to kill you, or
38:25
Speaker 1: murder victims that before they died said if I go missing, Hey,
38:31
Speaker 1: she did it.
38:32
Speaker 10: I just worked on a case where we had a
38:34
Speaker 10: young woman that ended up getting stuffed and refrigerator by
38:38
Speaker 10: her then husband who actually put out, if I go missing,
38:42
Speaker 10: he is the one that is.
38:43
Speaker 8: Basically going to kill me.
38:45
Speaker 9: And she sent out so many warning signals on that.
38:48
Speaker 9: So when other people start to recognize warning signals, I
38:52
Speaker 9: think you got to pretty start stating taking it seriously
38:56
Speaker 9: because they're the ones who actually see the truth picture. Unfortunately,
39:00
Speaker 9: you know, Travis perhaps might have been caught this little
39:02
Speaker 9: france or whatever with her, but the real story about
39:06
Speaker 9: this right now is how in the heck can Joey
39:11
Speaker 9: Areas sit in a prison cell paint, draw, scratch, smith, doodle, whatever,
39:19
Speaker 9: and then ship items out to be sold on the
39:23
Speaker 9: open market. And the only reason people buy them is
39:28
Speaker 9: because she's received some higher proficiency because she is a
39:33
Speaker 9: high profile killer, without anybody thinking about who she killed,
39:39
Speaker 9: why she's in prison. And I'm sorry, but you just
39:43
Speaker 9: you should be able to profit from committing crimes, especially murdered.
39:47
Speaker 9: It's that simplistic. And why that's the First Amendment allowed
39:51
Speaker 9: to happen is beyond my comprehension.
39:53
Speaker 1: To Derek Smith, high profile criminal defense attorney joining us
39:56
Speaker 1: out of Ohio. Why are inmates criminals allowed to profit
40:05
Speaker 1: from their crimes?
40:06
Speaker 13: Well, Nancy, in a lot of states, they're not. This
40:09
Speaker 13: goes back to something we said earlier, the Son of
40:12
Speaker 13: Sam law that originated from the David Berkowitz murders in
40:16
Speaker 13: New York, that was brought up on First Amendment all
40:19
Speaker 13: the way up to the Supreme Court, and they deemed
40:22
Speaker 13: that was unconstitutional as a violation of their First Amendment rights,
40:26
Speaker 13: and then the states, you know, tweaked some of those
40:28
Speaker 13: laws to make it, you know, applicable for that in
40:31
Speaker 13: many states, but Arizona is not one of them. So
40:33
Speaker 13: Arizona does not have any laws against inmates in this
40:37
Speaker 13: situation being able to profit.
40:39
Speaker 1: Wow, well, maybe after tonight they will. And you know, Derek,
40:44
Speaker 1: you mentioned Son of Sam laws regarding Berkowitz. You know,
40:47
Speaker 1: it goes all the way back to the movie Goodfellows,
40:50
Speaker 1: where there was a lawsuit that went to the US
40:53
Speaker 1: Supreme Court over profiting from Goodfellows. I mean, this is
40:59
Speaker 1: a valiantly fought battle and states have the power to
41:05
Speaker 1: stop this. We wait as just as unfalls. Goodbye friend,