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Conflict Resolution – The One Superpower Needed Today with Penny Tremblay · Authentic Living

• 0:01
  Welcome to authentic living with Roxanne, a place where we have as conversations about
• 0:08
  things that really matter in our lives.
• 0:11
  And now here's your host, Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:36
  Hi, everyone.
• 0:37
  It's a Roxanne Derhodge.
• 0:38
  Thanks for tuning in again today.
• 0:41
  Today I have a special colleague Penny Trauma who is a expert in dealing with conflict and
• 0:51
  what she's gonna do today is to talk about her concept called playing nice in the sandbox
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  where she basically, deals with leaders in their teams, across North America on how to
• 1:06
  deal with conflict.
• 1:07
  Hey, Penny.
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  How are you?
• 1:09
  Hey, Roxanne.
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  I'm great.
• 1:10
  How are you?
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  Good.
• 1:12
  Good.
• 1:12
  Don't you love going live with all the back and forth?
• 1:15
  Penny just got kicked off again.
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  So thanks so much, Penny, for being on today.
• 1:21
  So Now Penny has had a a quite an interesting path and, you know, her brand, is playing nice
• 1:31
  in the sandbar.
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  Roxanne, you know, it's it's such a playful, way of thinking of conflict because you know,
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  quite literally a penny and I'd I'd be interested to hear about how you created the
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  brand about all of us really I think could do with skills getting better on how to relate
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  with others when things aren't going so well for us.
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  But you know, just tell us kind of a bit about you and a bit about the path that you've been
• 1:59
  on, working with a a conflict in the workplace.
• 2:03
  Sure.
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  Well, my brand came from an elevator pitch.
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  So I was teaching, people how to do elevator pitches because sometimes people pull on my
• 2:13
  business expert.
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  And, And so I was trying out different ones.
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  So when I said, you know, I'm in the business of leadership training and conflict resolution,
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  people would go like, yeah, boring.
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  And then, like, one day I came out with, hey, I teach people how to play nice in the sandbox
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  and people would lean in and laugh and giggle And so I got such great feedback on that
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  elevator pitch that it became the way that I introduced myself.
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  And everybody got it immediately.
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  And so I built a whole brand around it.
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  So, yeah, some people refer to me as the Sandbox lady.
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  So, you know, one of the things that you asked me to talk about was, a conflict resolution and
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  I guess, you know, the playful approach to conflict resolution is really for people
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  because nobody ever wants to get invited to a conflict resolution meeting or a conflict
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  resolution training.
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  In fact, I even tried to have conferences with conflict resolution as the title and nobody
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  wanted to come.
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  You know, the whole word itself sounds like combat like you know, it's a fight and but the
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  reality is that conflict is inevitable.
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  You know, there's con there's always gonna be conflict that surfaces and most people aren't
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  taught how to deal with it.
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  So we get entangled with conflict at work.
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  We get entangled with conflict at home in our personal lives.
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  And one thing that really resonated with me was watching an interview of a couple married 75
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  years and they ask the woman how did you like what's your secret to be married for 75 years
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  And she said, you know, back in our time when something was broken, you didn't throw it in
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  the garbage.
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  You fixed it.
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  Mhmm.
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  And it was like, That has never left me.
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  We live in such a disposable society today.
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  You know, if if if we pull some nails out of boards, we throw them in the garbage back in
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  the in the old days.
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  They use straighten those nails out because you might need them one day.
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  And, you know, it's the same thing with, mourns in our side when it comes to people.
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  We so easily can just like hit delete block, you know, break up with somebody by text
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  message, hide behind our email and be following insults, talk some of your colleagues at work
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  and and the more technologically, or the, you know, the more technologically connected we are
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  we are with our technology, the more disconnected we're becoming as a So those are
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  some of the those are some of the things that come to mind.
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  You know, when I think about helping people understand the value of talking about things
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  face to face or zoom to zoom or at least phone calls, you know, just get conversation going,
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  when there's conflict.
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  So you said something quite interesting.
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  I'm gonna talk about You know, when we have differences with someone and we haven't
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  resolved it, we can't have this thing in our head.
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  Right?
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  Oh, Penny doesn't Penny's, you know, it speaks too loud or Penny does Penny cuts me off or,
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  you know, oh, yeah.
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  Well, Penny also has to have the last say.
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  So we have these messages that we give ourselves.
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  Right?
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  We call those like, you know, labeling, distortions, whatever.
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  When you let's talk a little bit about when you go in to work with say a team because I know
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  Penny was just with me not too long ago and she was working with a team how do you start?
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  Like, where do you start with it?
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  What's your process?
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  Cause I I know you have a process and I can show you, I actually have this.
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  I thought Penny would find that very interesting.
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  This is Penny's lovely brochure that talks about her process, and you can see it's quite
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  playful.
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  I love the, you know, the you know, sandbox with the, scoop in it.
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  I'm just curious how you kind of approach a concept because I'm thinking If I have my thing
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  in my head around someone, I'm gonna have a preconceived notion about how penny's gonna or
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  how Jim's gonna be or whatever.
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  What's your process when you're kind of called in to work with a company or a team that's not
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  getting along?
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  Well, I would I would start with step 1 of my sandbox system, which is conflict resolution.
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  And, you know, that just makes common sense when you're saying what do you do when a
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  company calls you for conflict?
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  But a company doesn't always call me for conflict.
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  Sometimes a company will call me for for team building or leadership training, which is
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  great.
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  That's step 2 for me.
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  But if there's conflict, we need to resolve that first because you can't along quicksand.
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  And where there is resentment, there can be no relationships.
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  So What I do when somebody calls me in to work with a team on conflict is I meet everybody
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  involved 1 on 1 first.
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  Okay.
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  So let's say the team is eight people, or, you know, forty eight people, whatever, maybe it's
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  only two people they want you to work with.
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  I meet them one on 1 first, and I have a confidential conversation with them because I
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  wanna understand the problem from their perspective.
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  It also helps me gather themes, but what I encourage people to do in that one on one
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  conversation after I think I understand the situation is I always encourage conflict
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  resolution from the inside out.
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  And what I mean by that is that, we're all responsible to create the life that we wanna
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  live.
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  And to create the relationships that we want, you know, the quality of relationships that we
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  wanna have.
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  Most people when they're in conflict, they're blaming someone else.
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  They're blaming circumstances.
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  On their boss, their colleagues, their system, their underpaid, whatever.
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  And so what I think is the most important step because I learned it from Steven Covey, you
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  know, habit number 1 in 7 habits of highly effective people is be proactive you know, take
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  responsibility to create the life that you wanna create and stop blaming people because
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  when you blame, you're giving your power away.
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  So when you become powerless, less power, when you take responsibility, you recognize what's
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  yours in the conflict?
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  And that's really the only thing you can fix.
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  You you and I, we can't fix somebody else.
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  Right?
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  You and I can fix you.
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  But you and I, we can't fix him and him and him and her.
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  So that is I think the biggest shift that people have to make is if they want to be
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  better or if they wanna if they wanna have more peaceful relationships, they need to go inside
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  first and find out what what about the relationship isn't peaceful and why not?
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  Mhmm.
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  Right.
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  And and that why not have to be from an eye perspective.
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  When when he says that, I get triggered.
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  Rather than he makes me feel stupid.
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  Right?
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  Or, you know, she, she is condescending when she talks to me rather than that.
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  It's like, I feel belittled when she speaks to me.
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  It's taking responsibility and then you know, if people really wanna get into the work, they,
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  can work more in more depth with me and start digging.
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  And you know as a therapist, you know, once people start digging, they find those past
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  experiences that have created those stories in their mind which creates the labels that you
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  were speaking of earlier, and that's really where the entanglements started.
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  Mhmm.
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  It looks like reprogramming, rewiring, changing your changing your story of those things.
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  Right.
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  Because as soon as you go to, you know, if Penny, if only you would, then you get the,
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  okay, I could have stopped now, but if if it's Penny, when when you are, abrupt when you enter
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  the office, you know, it it puts me off and I'm I'm kind I I, you know, I can't think clearly
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  You enter the office a little bit, you know, slower or quieter, and then you probably go, oh
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  my god.
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  I didn't even realize I did that.
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  And then you go, oh, oh, okay.
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  And then then you're using the responsibility on you to to to your point, right, because I
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  think we hear the word triggers being thrown around a lot, but a lot of people really don't
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  know what it is.
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  Right?
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  Right?
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  Something happens.
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  You tell yourself a story about the events.
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  You make meaning and purpose as to what is happening and then there's a behavior.
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  Right?
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  But if we don't have anybody to really talk it through to your point like to go to, well, how
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  is it affecting me?
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  It's my internal world.
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  It may be right or wrong, but it's my internal world about how I interpret things.
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  And then, you know, then I respond to the person that's pissing me off in some way kind
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  of thing.
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  And it becomes a vicious a vicious kind of snowball.
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  Right?
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  That's right.
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  That's exactly right.
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  And, you know, one of the really common, problems that people have in the workplace with
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  each other is that they said good morning to somebody and that person doesn't respond.
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  That is common.
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  And I think to myself, Okay.
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  Well, that's, you know, you you said good morning to somebody.
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  Why do you need those spots?
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  You know, often it's not, I mean, it would be nice, but if you don't get it, does that make
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  the person wrong, but we make up stories about it.
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  Like, oh, they don't like me or oh, they're rude or oh, it's because of something that I,
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  you know, did 2 years ago or they're just unfriendly or they're you know, snotty or
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  whatever.
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  We make up we make up assumptions that potentially aren't even true.
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  Mhmm.
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  The deeper question I would have for somebody is Why do you need it?
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  Why do you need someone to respond?
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  You know, sometimes I'll ask people who are so frustrated with a colleague at work I'll say,
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  you know, how do you behave?
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  You know, how how how do you get well, you said triggered, but, you know, how does this
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  person's behavior affect you?
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  Well, you know, I don't wanna be in the same room as them.
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  I, you know, I feel you know, I wanna quit, whatever.
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  I often say, what's your favorite flower?
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  Okay.
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  What's your favorite flower?
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  I think a hibiscus.
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  Okay.
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  Well, let's imagine that there was a vase of hibiscus on the boardroom table.
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  Those flowers are going to be their beautiful selves, their color, their smell, their
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  radiant, no matter who sits at the table.
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  So if we could just try to be more like our authentic selves, like, what other people are
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  doing and saying, we would be able to let a lot of minor things roll off our back.
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  Right?
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  Yeah.
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  Just to look at it for what it is and all of us are so unique and, you know, with conflict,
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  it's it's you're right.
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  It's it, you know, and we get more stronger in our position because we think we're right and,
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  you know, It's kind of that tug of war.
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  Right?
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  Everybody's kind of pulling at each other and nobody kind of steps into it.
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  Most people go against it and it and then that that rope gets tighter and tighter.
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  Right.
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  So let's
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  I wanna talk a lot, you know, about differences and diversity because I you know what, Penny?
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  I know you know be being out there, in the kind of work that you do differences is one thing,
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  but diversity is a whole other, I would say, kettle of fish.
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  Probably a bigger kettle of fish based on what we're already dealing with with differences.
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  So with, tell me kind of how do you find that when you when you're working with people, is it
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  around diversity?
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  That's the issue or different ways of thinking or culture?
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  Or what how do you kind of Well, how do you deal with diversity if there's conflicts on
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  teams?
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  In the workplace, there's a tremendous amount of diversity because we have different
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  cultures.
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  We have different, gender, gen well, we have different genders, of course, but we have
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  gender fluidity.
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  So, you know, somebody that used to be one gender could be transitioned into another.
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  We have a diversity in people's values We have diversity in, generations.
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  You know, we've got the baby boomers and the millennials and and so there's diversity in in,
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  in spiritual, you know, values There's all kinds of diversity and I I know one thing for
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  sure is that no matter what where do you fall into any of those spaces?
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  We all want the same thing.
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  Mhmm.
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  We all want to have a peaceful, and and content life.
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  We all want to make the most amount of money in the least amount of time and we, you know, we
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  wanna be feeling like we're included in in on things.
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  So I don't I think it's wonderful that there's so much diversity in the world, in the
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  workplace because we get to learn from each other, but I think the problem that that we
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  have is that we don't accept other people's differences.
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  So even like, well, one of the diversities I didn't mention is personality styles.
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  Mhmm.
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  Right?
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  Yep.
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  Often causes conflict because somebody is like very direct to the point and somebody else is
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  like the touchy feely likes to have, oh, the compliments of before and after and, you know,
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  Either one isn't right or wrong.
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  And this is one of my own personal, conflict resolution, tips and strategies that I've
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  almost mastered is luck losing judgment.
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  Like, it I've stopped judging things as right or wrong.
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  Black or white.
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  And of course, that's very easy to do in conflict resolution work because I don't have
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  any emotional investment in it.
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  When I'm emotionally invested in something, I'm not as good as I am when I'm when I'm, a
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  mediator, but Yeah.
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  It's it's about not expecting people to be just like us.
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  It's allowing people to be who they are allowing them to be human and allowing them to
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  be different and not expecting that we have to be the same because if we were all the same,
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  the world would be much less exciting place.
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  It causes a lot of concrete.
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  We think well, you know, why are they doing that like that?
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  We wouldn't do it like that.
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  Okay.
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  Does that make them wrong?
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  Does that make us wrong?
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  You know, it's just different.
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  Right?
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  So what I hear then is really, I mean, to put it bluntly, we all have different perspectives.
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  Your reality to my reality Yes, we're female.
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  Yes, we do the, you know, similar kind of work, but your your background, you know, growing up
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  in Canada and and I think rural me and Trinidad kind of extended family, you know, a different
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  culture all those different things.
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  There's gonna be lots of different things, right?
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  But again, it's about commonality, right?
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  It's about what what is the common goal and oftentimes when teams get together, they have
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  account potentially a common outcome but the way to get to it is often where the conflict
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  might develop or maybe different personalities like the introvert versus the extrovert or the
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  microscopic person versus the big picture person or, you know, those maybe one cultural
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  person doesn't speak as much.
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  The other person You can't, you know, keep quiet.
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  So there's lots of moving parts in the team and I'll say it's like a, a family in a way because
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  it's a system and a family is a system like a company is a system like a team is a system and
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  we have to figure out, you know, kinda, you know, what are the rules, what are the roles,
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  you know, who who who, you know, negates who, who helps out, you know, you know, how we're
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  gonna clean up, like, it quite literally, how we're gonna clean up the sandbox before we get
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  playing in it.
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  Right.
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  And I think you're right when you say you can't build, you know, a new foundation you know, on
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  on, moving sand.
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  You have to
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  have it quick.
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  Yeah.
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  We want to cancel a quick sand.
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  You have to get from from ground.
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  But that means that you have to level off that playing field in order to to start building
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  again.
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  And I often times and I don't know.
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  You tell me sometimes teams have never spoken at this level.
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  Right, where they had to look at things at a deeper level to say, well, why is it that, you
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  know, you know, when so and so takes the lead because nobody else takes the lead, it's good
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  sometimes, but sometimes I don't want them to take the lead so it's already kinda hash that
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  out and talk about the intention behind behavior which most people oftentimes don't sit
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  down and talk about But when there's when there's conflict that everybody had kind of,
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  you know, goes in their corner and their camps and, you know, there's a line with one person
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  out and Penny and I are a lot alike.
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  So maybe we might talk about things a little bit more and it's a I often say it's about
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  leveling it off so everybody can start having the same conversation at the same time.
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  Now with leaders, right, if it's a leader that people are having issues with?
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  How do you approach that, with the work that you do?
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  That's such a great question.
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  I include the entire team.
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  And but it's a common question when a leader will say, should I be there?
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  Well, yeah.
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  You want us, you know, do you want us sorting things out without you?
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  Like, no.
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  Everybody needs
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  your team some things, but you won't know what we taught them
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  and everybody needs
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  them.
• 21:09
  Yeah.
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  Yeah.
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  And that's and that's the power of the, the group conversation is that, when I facilitate
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  that, Everybody has equal opportunity to speak and listen to each other.
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  And, I actually learned the circle approach from indigenous people and, in fact, mediation
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  actually comes from indigenous tribal leaders bringing their people together to sit in circle
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  to resolve social conflict.
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  So thousands of years ago, this was already happening, in my mediation work, over the
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  decades.
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  I was privileged to be working with many indigenous communities.
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  And, the circle is, you know, it's it's no stranger to indigenous people.
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  It's very equal.
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  There's no beginning and there's no end and there's no hierarchy and everybody has an equal
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  say but also oftentimes an object would get passed around so that people know whose turn it
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  is I personally don't do that.
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  I put a spiritual object in the center of the circle just sometimes for something to look at
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  more so but you know, depending on the group, depending on on the area.
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  You know, sometimes it's some some, cultural some cultural symbol or some medicines like,
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  sage or seed or something.
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  And and so the purpose of the circle is really to give everybody an equal opportunity to
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  share.
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  And a leader I I often ask to lead us off because, from there, we can move from person to
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  person, but, It's interesting what happens when you create that even playing field for people
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  to dig and I often ask the leader beforehand to, you know, I say I'm I'm gonna ask you to
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  lead us off, but also I wanna ask you what you've contributed to the team conflict and the
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  leader will go like me
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  and you want me to
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  go first too, right?
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  You want me to go first and, the value in that is Well, I I have a a prop right here because I
• 23:32
  was actually doing the mediation all morning, which is why I had to ask you to change the
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  time.
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  But anyways, this is a prop that it was made for me by, a former boyfriend and it's the best
• 23:47
  thing that came out of our relationship.
• 23:49
  I'm very honored to have this very custom made, ball of knotted rope.
• 23:54
  I told him I need to prop bunch of knotted rope.
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  So he made this for me.
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  Anyway, very unique.
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  1 of kind.
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  People are always very intrigued by it, but what this symbolizes is, you know, entanglement
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  of everybody's stuff.
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  So if everybody in the workplace or in the department, you know, has all this stuff
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  entangled, this symbolizes it.
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  And I say to people, if if if everybody could just reach in and take their piece and say, you
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  know what?
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  This is mine and I own it and I'm and I'm sorry and I'm gonna do better If everybody could do
• 24:31
  that, there'd be nothing left.
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  Right?
• 24:34
  And so when I asked the leader to, you know, own their pieces, it's interesting.
• 24:40
  They don't always, they're not always shocked, but in this recent one that I'm thinking about
• 24:48
  the the you know, upper upper managers like, I was really shocked when she asked me that
• 24:54
  question.
• 24:55
  But that's why I meet with everybody one on 1 first because I want to I want to coach them
• 25:01
  along a little bit with conflict resolution because the reality is, like you said, people
• 25:07
  aren't trained for this.
• 25:09
  They go through their technical training.
• 25:11
  They come out a, you know, whatever doctor, lawyer technician of some type, you know,
• 25:21
  health care worker, teacher, anything.
• 25:24
  I mean, conflict is not, it's in all sectors.
• 25:30
  It is not prejudiced it will affect any team anywhere.
• 25:35
  And so the reality is that we're not taught how to deal with it.
• 25:40
  Years ago people used to get a lot of social and value based education from church and from
• 25:50
  strong family units.
• 25:51
  And those aren't as strong as they used to be.
• 25:56
  So where are people learning how to resolve conflict?
• 26:01
  Well, I'm not I'm not really sure
• 26:03
  because program memes, like, no.
• 26:07
  They're you you learn how to work through things by going through the discomfort of
• 26:14
  working through things.
• 26:16
  I always say there's only one way through conflict and that's through it.
• 26:19
  You can't go over it or around it or under it.
• 26:22
  You have to go through it and it's uncomfortable, but you come out with the other
• 26:26
  side of that and you're feeling a great amount of peace and, you're feeling more expanded you
• 26:35
  know, you're feeling like you understand yourself and the other person or people or or
• 26:40
  corporate objectives or something better And so I often say there's no such thing as a failed
• 26:46
  relationship as long as you're learning the lessons.
• 26:50
  Absolutely.
• 26:50
  Maybe uncomfortable, but you're you're always progressing along.
• 26:53
  And, I mean, any relationship that's healthy has conflict, you know, because when I would
• 26:58
  coach people and they would say, we don't have any conflict.
• 27:01
  And I say, okay.
• 27:01
  Well, I'm gonna give you the first hour on me because I want you to get it all out because if
• 27:06
  you don't consistently talk about differences.
• 27:09
  And I think a lot of times people think the quick conflict with something extreme.
• 27:14
  They don't recognize that every time if you discuss little things, it doesn't have to
• 27:19
  become a cumulative, you know, big cloud because now you've realized, hey, you know,
• 27:24
  this is bothering me.
• 27:26
  Can we next time we have our little chit chats that can we chat about this, then it doesn't
• 27:31
  create that big snowball.
• 27:32
  But like you said, where would people?
• 27:33
  They would have either learned it potentially, you know, growing up or in relationships.
• 27:38
  We learn how to be in relationships and to deal with differences, but where else?
• 27:43
  You know, do people go up and buy books, do they, you know, maybe they listen to podcasts
• 27:47
  like these now, they, you know, but again, until it it shows up somewhere and there's,
• 27:52
  obviously, it's adverse then you call in somebody like yourself that's the expert to
• 27:57
  really help them through.
• 27:58
  So you you kind of introduce, like you said, you interview everybody, you have a sense, you
• 28:02
  coach them, then you do the circle.
• 28:05
  And then what's what's the next process after that?
• 28:08
  Well, in, you know, in the circle, that's basically the facilitated group discussion,
• 28:13
  whether it's 2 or, you know, fifty people, and then we make commitments.
• 28:19
  And they make commitments I write them up and then I meet them for a follow-up session.
• 28:26
  So the commitments is based on the overall goal of what the group.
• 28:30
  So I'm gonna assume is there a collective goal of the entire group?
• 28:33
  And then individually, everybody talks about how they contribute to the problem and then you
• 28:38
  talk about the commitment about how they might alter, you know, their behavior to to enhance
• 28:44
  getting along then.
• 28:45
  And then you write it up and then you meet individually with each person after, or you
• 28:49
  meet with the team
• 28:50
  meet us in the group.
• 28:52
  Oh, okay.
• 28:52
  Okay.
• 28:52
  What I mean, somebody that's kinda saying they're gonna go along?
• 28:56
  You maybe get, what, 1 or 2 of those maybe periodically.
• 28:59
  And they say all the right things and they give you the commitments.
• 29:03
  Yeah.
• 29:03
  Yeah.
• 29:03
  Yeah.
• 29:03
  Yeah.
• 29:04
  Penny,
• 29:04
  but they don't go along.
• 29:05
  How do you deal with those people?
• 29:07
  Well, that comes up in the follow-up session.
• 29:10
  Right?
• 29:10
  How's it going?
• 29:12
  Everybody's responsible.
• 29:13
  Everybody is accountable.
• 29:16
  And, you know, as a mediator, the first the first thing that I need to ensure as a mediator
• 29:24
  is that everybody involved is committed to something new.
• 29:27
  If two people aren't committed to change, then I can't help them.
• 29:33
  So I will stop the process and, you know, gladly hand them their money back and say, oh,
• 29:40
  okay.
• 29:42
  Then keep your problem and good luck with that.
• 29:46
  I mean, that's never happened, but it has happened that I've had to put that on the
• 29:53
  table.
• 29:54
  Like, if people aren't really committed or working towards something, I say like, you know
• 30:00
  what?
• 30:02
  If you guys just wanna call this process off right now, I'll cut you.
• 30:06
  You check for your money back, and we can all just move on.
• 30:10
  Keeping on because where there's no change, there's no change.
• 30:14
  I can't do your push ups for you.
• 30:18
  But I'm I'm really in the mediation process, the actual facilitated conversation.
• 30:23
  I'm just a facilitator of the conversation.
• 30:28
  I'm gifted enough to know, what to say and skillful enough to know how to say it so that
• 30:35
  people feel engaged in open and safe.
• 30:40
  And I can't say that I've never made any mistakes.
• 30:45
  But you know, what I would recommend to the average viewer who's watching this is that in
• 30:53
  workplace conflict, the onus is on the employees to get along.
• 30:58
  So if any Roxanne have a problem with each other, It's up to Penny and Roxanne to work it
• 31:04
  out.
• 31:05
  If Penny and Roxanne attempt and can't, then they can go to their supervisor.
• 31:12
  Problem is a lot of managers and supervisors don't know how to manage conflict.
• 31:16
  So, you know, all the way up the line, you know, the problem is that people are they are
• 31:24
  afraid of it.
• 31:25
  They don't know how to manage it and they don't know how to reach out for help and who reach
• 31:29
  out for help too.
• 31:31
  You know, workplace investigations are legislated if there's a formal complaint filed
• 31:36
  in a workplace.
• 31:38
  And workplace investigations are very expensive.
• 31:43
  Some companies have the opportunity to do them internally and others need to hire
• 31:48
  investigation companies which are very costly and I don't do investigations.
• 31:56
  I think that if people would contact me first, there might not need to be an investigation.
• 32:04
  If people have had an investigation, they really should contact somebody like me after to
• 32:09
  put the relationships back together again because it's like after an investigation, it's
• 32:16
  such an intrusive process, but it's
• 32:20
  Yeah.
• 32:23
  And so people are like, you know, walking on egg shells.
• 32:26
  It's like, humpty dumpty's falling off the wall and nobody's bothered to put them back together
• 32:31
  again.
• 32:32
  And then the rest of the, you know, the rest of the days are spent walking on egg shells.
• 32:38
  Yeah.
• 32:38
  For sure.
• 32:39
  And, it's so important, right?
• 32:41
  Like, you're right.
• 32:42
  It's kinda like, now you've had this issue and who said what to who and who was gonna, you
• 32:46
  know, all that stuff.
• 32:47
  And then you have all these fragmented people now walking around with their version of the
• 32:52
  story and, you know, how it got resolved.
• 32:55
  So So very, very important that people really realize they need, regardless of the stage of
• 33:01
  the process, they need to Whether the team stays after the fact or some people leave or
• 33:06
  what, even if people leave, you still have to reintegrate everybody and and get back to a
• 33:11
  functional team again.
• 33:12
  Yeah.
• 33:12
  Yep.
• 33:13
  Yes.
• 33:16
  Yeah, even when the investigation is finished, it's extremely confidential.
• 33:24
  So people people think that HR should like hold up, you know, town hall and say, hey,
• 33:30
  everybody, this is what happened.
• 33:32
  But no.
• 33:33
  Nobody's going to find out what happened except if there are disciplinary actions or
• 33:38
  recommendations, the appropriate people will be notified period end of story.
• 33:43
  So it's it's, you know, I I don't think I know enough about the process to be criticizing it
• 33:52
  except from my perspective that they are extremely expensive.
• 33:57
  They can stall a an organization for 6 months and still not get the results that that this
• 34:06
  process can get.
• 34:09
  I worked on a a case today and I was just scarfing down some food and and reading some
• 34:18
  email before I got on with you and somebody from that emailed me and said, thank you so
• 34:24
  much.
• 34:24
  We made more movement in 2 days than we have in 10 years.
• 34:29
  Amazing.
• 34:31
  So there's no
• 34:33
  conflict for 10 years and that's one more day.
• 34:37
  Yeah.
• 34:38
  2 days of really focusing on it.
• 34:41
  So I know we talked a little bit about superpower.
• 34:44
  So let's talk a little bit about if if I decide that I wanna get better at conflict, Penny,
• 34:49
  what would you say would be 1 or 1 or 2 maybe superpowers that I should be focusing on?
• 34:55
  So I can take those skills with me wherever I go to help you with conflict.
• 35:00
  Okay.
• 35:01
  So I think that, you know, one of one of the most important things to know is in my
• 35:08
  definition of conflict is that conflict is the absence of peace.
• 35:12
  So you mentioned it earlier when you said some couples don't think that they have conflict,
• 35:17
  but they do.
• 35:18
  They just work through it regularly, so nothing ever mounts up to being something significant.
• 35:25
  I think that when we talk about conflict in general, there's many types.
• 35:28
  Like, there's inner conflict.
• 35:31
  Right?
• 35:32
  And then there's external conflict.
• 35:34
  So, the more that we can work on ourselves, the less we have to get entangled with other
• 35:42
  people.
• 35:43
  K.
• 35:43
  Let's say we're talking about we're in conflict at work with somebody else.
• 35:49
  What's the superpower is in my opinion is con confrontation.
• 35:56
  Have have and the word sounds intimidating.
• 35:59
  Have a conversation.
• 36:01
  Confront it.
• 36:02
  Challenge it.
• 36:03
  Don't sweep it under the carpet.
• 36:05
  Only gonna fester there.
• 36:06
  So the most important thing in my opinion is that you are you are moving through it.
• 36:13
  You know it's there.
• 36:14
  It's a knot in your gut or, you know, some people feel it as like they wanna throw up or
• 36:19
  it's a weight on their shoulders or, you know, it's pain in their chest or whatever.
• 36:23
  Know your know your feedback from when you are in conflict and and commit to doing something
• 36:31
  about it.
• 36:32
  Quickly.
• 36:33
  So, there's that 24 hour rule that a lot of hockey parents are learning about, you know,
• 36:39
  when you're when you're all fired You've gotta wait 24 hours.
• 36:43
  And and I really agree with, with the idea that if we're if our motions are flared up, we're
• 36:52
  not going to be peaceful and we wanna we wanna try and have a productive conversation.
• 36:59
  So give yourself time.
• 37:01
  Give yourself a time out.
• 37:02
  Even if somebody says, I wanna talk to you right now.
• 37:05
  You're you could say, I need some time and whatever you're gonna commit to, make sure you
• 37:11
  stay committed.
• 37:11
  So if you're gonna say I'll meet you tomorrow morning or I'll meet you at the end of the day,
• 37:16
  Stay committed to that.
• 37:19
  I would highly recommend, if possible, if your emotions will allow you to deal with it before
• 37:27
  the end of the day because then you can have a peaceful night's sleep.
• 37:30
  And we know how valuable that is.
• 37:34
  So confront it, you know, ways that you can confront it is, you can you can be aware of
• 37:44
  what in your perspective has happened or is happening and how it's affecting you and take
• 37:51
  personal responsibility for it.
• 37:53
  So when you're talking about it, you're not like you this and you that.
• 37:58
  It's more like I feel sad when or, you know, it hurts me because or, you know, I feel insecure
• 38:06
  in my job or whatever.
• 38:08
  It's I.
• 38:09
  But, you know, even before that, you have to get people to the conversation.
• 38:12
  You have to get them to the table.
• 38:14
  And one of the one of the things that I have.
• 38:17
  If you'd like, I'll I'll give it to all of your listeners.
• 38:19
  It's a it's a just a one pager of conversation starters.
• 38:24
  But they all carry through one theme.
• 38:26
  They're invitations.
• 38:29
  The easiest one is can we talk Mhmm.
• 38:33
  Yeah.
• 38:35
  It's
• 38:35
  it's not invasive.
• 38:37
  It's kinda, can we talk?
• 38:39
  Because you're feeling it in your tummy to your point.
• 38:41
  And you're saying, hey, can can we have a bit of a chat?
• 38:45
  Yeah.
• 38:45
  It
• 38:45
  says to the person that they probably know something's going on, but you're doing it in a
• 38:49
  in a nice way.
• 38:50
  Right.
• 38:50
  Sounds better than, come into my office.
• 38:53
  Oh, yeah.
• 38:54
  Or can
• 38:54
  I see you in my office?
• 38:55
  Or, I used to say this.
• 38:58
  And probably why I'm not married to this person anymore because they used to say this was my
• 39:02
  line back then.
• 39:04
  We need to talk.
• 39:08
  I thought that was a good line.
• 39:10
  I mean, it's it's it's short.
• 39:11
  I thought it was an invitation, but it wasn't inviting enough, you know.
• 39:16
  And so do you see the difference?
• 39:18
  Can we talk?
• 39:19
  Yeah.
• 39:20
  Yeah.
• 39:20
  You need to talk.
• 39:21
  Oh, yeah.
• 39:22
  For sure.
• 39:23
  So I I I like people to run through the birthday party filter.
• 39:27
  So let's say you're inviting people to a birthday party, you know, what would you write
• 39:32
  on the envelope?
• 39:33
  What would you write on the in size, like, would you write, you know, come to my house,
• 39:38
  you know, you know, come to my house.
• 39:40
  We have something to discuss.
• 39:42
  No, you'd write, you know, you're invited or, you know, so from that, of course, not those
• 39:49
  same words, but like from that What's the word I'm looking for?
• 39:54
  Like, from that, intention.
• 39:58
  Mhmm.
• 39:58
  Or the sudden intention of what you're trying to achieve And if it's it's if because you're
• 40:03
  you're inviting resolution, but you wanna make it in an engaging enough way versus already
• 40:09
  kind of working with the with the block that's up with the other person.
• 40:13
  If you say we gotta talk.
• 40:15
  Right.
• 40:15
  Right.
• 40:15
  That's different from Hey.
• 40:17
  Do you have some time?
• 40:18
  You have a couple minutes.
• 40:19
  We can chat which really kinda takes the edge off.
• 40:22
  And another easy one is I'd really like to get your opinion on something.
• 40:27
  Oh, I like that one.
• 40:29
  Okay.
• 40:29
  And the opinion could be, you know, what makes you think that what you did was right and, you
• 40:34
  know, do you know how much it hurt me, but at least it's an opener.
• 40:37
  Right?
• 40:38
  Right.
• 40:38
  That's right.
• 40:39
  I think that there's so many so many times I hear that people want to have conversations
• 40:45
  with others, but they don't wanna show up to the conversation.
• 40:49
  You can't have a conversation with somebody if they're not sitting across the table.
• 40:53
  Right?
• 40:54
  Absolutely.
• 40:54
  Thanks.
• 40:55
  Absolutely.
• 40:55
  No texting.
• 40:56
  No you know, just do it as much as you can in whatever format
• 41:00
  Right.
• 41:00
  Face to face like we're doing now, which is even not ideal, but if this is what you have,
• 41:05
  just reading and saying, I need to I need to see your eyes.
• 41:07
  I need to, you know, know that you see me so that we can resolve things.
• 41:11
  Yeah.
• 41:11
  Now, Penny, I know you and I can go on for a very long because we have the we have these
• 41:16
  awesome conversations all the time.
• 41:17
  We're lucky enough to have the uh-uh, you know, be connected.
• 41:21
  Yeah.
• 41:21
  So for for people that are interested in play nice in the sandbox, you said you would, give
• 41:28
  us the the openers, which I lovely.
• 41:30
  If you can, get that to us, we will make sure that's in the show notes.
• 41:34
  Where can people get ahold of you?
• 41:36
  If if they're leaders, that are listening or, people on teams even that are thinking, you
• 41:41
  know, I I I think they could we might need some help or whatever.
• 41:45
  Where could they get a hold of you?
• 41:46
  Well, my name here says pennytrauma.com because that's my website address.
• 41:55
  There's lots of valuable resources on my website.
• 41:57
  There's a category called leadership tips and I've written almost 400 of them.
• 42:01
  So they're searchable.
• 42:04
  I have 3 programs.
• 42:07
  They're 16 hours each, so they're all 2 day programs.
• 42:10
  Let me get them in focus here.
• 42:12
  They're falling apart.
• 42:13
  So my work my programs are, play nice winning in the new workplace sandbox.
• 42:19
  This is great for the entire team.
• 42:21
  I've done this virtually to 350, you know, to one team of 350 people once.
• 42:28
  And, it was it was amazing.
• 42:31
  So that can be all my work can be done in person or virtually.
• 42:35
  I've got this follow-up to that one I just showed you.
• 42:38
  It's called relationships and conflict man management for managers and supervisors.
• 42:43
  This is really valuable, and sometimes it's a great place for an organization to start if
• 42:48
  they wanna train their leaders on how to, avoid the the biggest mistakes.
• 42:55
  And then I have one on to health and wellness.
• 42:58
  And this one is very special.
• 43:00
  It's rooted in the 7 grandfather teachings because, I work with indigenous people on this
• 43:07
  one.
• 43:07
  But, the 7 grandfather teachings are amazing for learning you know, principles to live by
• 43:18
  that are nature based.
• 43:20
  So, you know, like the wolf and the beaver and the bear and so on.
• 43:23
  So you know, I mean, anytime I bring out spiritual things for audiences, I get thanked
• 43:30
  because people say I didn't realize how much the spiritual aspect of my life was missing.
• 43:36
  So, you know, I don't I don't, pitch any one denomination, but you know, I think that when
• 43:43
  people acknowledge a power greater than themselves, they can get through some of these
• 43:48
  difficult conversations, you know.
• 43:52
  There's this is right on my website.
• 43:54
  It's called the 5 biggest mistakes lead Here's make when conflict surfaces and how to avoid
• 44:01
  them.
• 44:02
  This is right on the main page of pennichrombie.com.
• 44:04
  I highly recommend you download this.
• 44:06
  It's a quick read.
• 44:07
  You can read it over a cup of coffee, you know, 5 biggest mistakes if you're a leader,
• 44:13
  avoidance being number 1.
• 44:15
  And yeah.
• 44:16
  So those, you know, those are some ways that people can get a hold of me.
• 44:20
  I have recently developed a play nice formula which you can download and you can work through
• 44:29
  a conflict on your own like the the 8 steps in my play nice formula.
• 44:34
  So I have lots and lots of resources.
• 44:37
  I love helping people.
• 44:38
  I give everybody.
• 44:40
  I work with a business card.
• 44:41
  It's called their peace pass and I say call me anytime you're struggling.
• 44:45
  I I don't like people struggling for long and sometimes we just need you know, a third party
• 44:52
  to to vent to and to help us sort our stuff out as you know because Roxanne, you and I use each
• 44:57
  other often for for that.
• 45:00
  Right?
• 45:01
  So the the problem is that in the workplace, when you start going to other people with your
• 45:08
  problems can it can go from venting to gossip pretty quickly.
• 45:11
  So, you know, consider reaching out to somebody like Roxanne or myself who can help you take
• 45:18
  you know, take the higher road, or at least get out of that cesspool of negativity and and not
• 45:27
  be swimming along with people who are just as negative as you are about a certain situation
• 45:32
  and also for leaders I recommend you know, getting involved in a in a group of other
• 45:40
  leaders regarding, how to manage conflict.
• 45:43
  And I do have a do have a master class for people.
• 45:47
  So I have lots and lots of resources.
• 45:50
  Thank you so much for asking about all of the things that I've been working on.
• 45:54
  Well, for anyone listening, reach out and have that conversation with Penny.
• 45:59
  So what am I what am I taking away?
• 46:02
  I think it's just reinforcing that concept of the languaging around I versus, you know, you
• 46:09
  and to to just use the basic, concept of, you know, hey, can we have a bit of a chat?
• 46:15
  Those are some basic things, but ready, ready, so necessary.
• 46:18
  So for everybody, I'm releasing my new book on May 12th.
• 46:23
  It's ROR return on relationships.
• 46:25
  And I'll be doing a live podcast with 4 CEOs on that particular day, and I would love for
• 46:30
  everybody to attend.
• 46:32
  But in the interim, if you just wanna assess, your relationships and how authentic you
• 46:37
  are in
• 46:37
  those relationships.
• 46:38
  Go to Roxanne forward slash quiz.
• 46:41
  There'll be a quiz that you can walk through and we'll send you the results so you can kinda
• 46:46
  know where you kind of sit and areas that you're doing well in.
• 46:49
  Fantastic, but if there's some areas that you can do need some help with, I'm available to do
• 46:54
  that.
• 46:54
  So again, Penny, thanks so much for coming in today.
• 46:58
  Penny had a busy day and was still able to fit us in and again, for everyone, thank you.
• 47:03
  Thank you for being here and we'll chat with you again next week.
• 47:08
  Take care.
• 47:09
  Thanks for tuning in to authentic living with Roxanne, creating the space for positive,
• 47:15
  healthy change.
• 47:16
  Roxanne is a keynote speaker psychotherapist, and coach to work with Roxanne, visit
• 47:22
  rocksandurhaj.com/blueprint.
• 47:26
  We'll see you next time on authentic living with Roxanne.