Latest / Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge / Two Ts Presents: Two Jersey Js: Identity Crisis? with Chris Harrison

Transcript

Two Ts Presents: Two Jersey Js: Identity Crisis? with Chris Harrison · Two Ts In A Pod with Teddi Mellencamp and Tamra Judge

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: Hey everybody.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: By you guys, we are two Jersey Jays and Jackie Goldschneider.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: I'm Den Fessler.
• 0:07
  Speaker 2: We're so excited today we have one of my favorite
• 0:10
  Speaker 2: people on as our guest, but we have.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: A lot to get to before then. Yes, we certainly do.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: We do.
• 0:17
  Speaker 2: As I was driving here this morning, news was breaking
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: about some people leaving some of the Bravo shows and.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I lost my voice, and I like, I love it.
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: Rasby like this, but I.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: Can't seem to get We're gonna excrase it.
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, people are leaving some of the shows.
• 0:39
  Speaker 3: Well, and the timing of that, although unfortunate I'm sure
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: for lots of viewers, and potentially even for the Housewives, Uh, unfortunate.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Unfortunate though it is maybe for them, it sort of
• 0:51
  Speaker 3: works out for us because our topic today is sort
• 0:56
  Speaker 3: of what happens after you lose you or I don't
• 1:01
  Speaker 3: know about identity, because I don't know that our guests
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: would agree that it was an identity that he lost.
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: But you know, when you go from being famous and
• 1:09
  Speaker 3: then all of a sudden you're not, whether it's at
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: you're canceled, or you leave a show that you've been,
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: you know, part of for so long, and I guess
• 1:19
  Speaker 3: it's different if you decide to leave. But even if
• 1:22
  Speaker 3: you do decide to leave.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Whether you're fired or put on pause or whatever it is,
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: that is a big piece of your identity, it is,
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: and when you are separated from that, you can really
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: have an identity crisis.
• 1:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I feel like I've seen it. I've
• 1:42
  Speaker 3: not been close friends with anyone that has gone through it,
• 1:45
  Speaker 3: but it, you know, would unfolds in social media, and
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: it feels like it's very, very hard for people to rebound. Specifically,
• 1:53
  Speaker 3: I think Housewives I'm talking about, but certainly there are
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: plenty of famous people that all of a sudden they're
• 1:59
  Speaker 3: not in the spotlight anymore for whatever reason. I mean, Jack,
• 2:03
  Speaker 3: you've been doing Housewives way longer than I have, and
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: you know you've gone through some stuff, but you probably
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: are more of an expert in terms of like speaking
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: to this.
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: Right well, I mean my.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: Step back to friend role from full time. Even though
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: that was something that I had spoken to Bravo about
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: and we all decided that was best considering my mental
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: stata at the time, it was still very hard for me.
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: And when I started filming my fifth season suddenly as
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: a friend instead of a full time cast member. My
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: head was spinning. I was so upset. All the time,
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: I felt really insecure. I would walk into rooms and
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: instead of being put into scenes, I was told to
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: wait until full time cast members had finished talking, and
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: it made me feel oh yeah, I felt so I
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: didn't know what to do with myself. I kept asking myself,
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: why am I here, What's going on? And it took
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: me a really long probably until the end of that
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: season to even feel comfortable, And then I felt really
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: uncomfortable again at the reunion. I just didn't know how
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: to not be a full time cast member and how
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: to be there now.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: I love I've said this all the time.
• 3:26
  Speaker 2: I don't know if I'm pigeonholing myself, but I really
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: do love the funeral, mostly because I get to just
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: do it and my family doesn't have to do it right,
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: you know.
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: And that's not to say that I wouldn't in the future.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: But I mean, I'm really really comfortable like this, and
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: you'll see it this season too. There's none of that
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: feeling of like inadequacy this season at all for me.
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: I don't genuinely don't feel that anymore. I like the
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: friend eral, But that being said, it was a really hard,
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: hard transition for me. Plus I wasn't in the best
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: place in terms of mental health, but that certainly it
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: certainly didn't help. Even though it wasn't my decision, it
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: was not easy at all. I went home and questioned
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: myself a lot, questioned my worth, questioned my identity.
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: Well, I think that's so key, right, And I mean,
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: you got demoted as opposed to being put on pause, fired,
• 4:14
  Speaker 3: whatever it is, and what then? Right, So when, especially
• 4:19
  Speaker 3: with I would think a show like this to have
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: it encompasses you, Right, It's not just the three months
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: of filming, it's the entire year of social media and
• 4:30
  Speaker 3: events and trying to figure out what's coming next, and
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: so what happens when that goes away?
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: Well, So that's why I was so lucky, because I
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: got to stay in it and also be out of it.
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: And since that time, I have become a master at
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: really compartmentalizing work. And I love this show and I
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: enjoy my castmates, and I have some really true, genuine friendships.
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: But I can step back and let work be work,
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: and let the rest of my life be the rest
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: of my life, and I don't feel like that's always possible.
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: If you're full time.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: It really does take over your life. And some people
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: love that and they wanted to take over their life.
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: For me, it had become overwhelming. But I will tell
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: you that one of the hardest things about being demoted
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: was the social media, because no matter what I would
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: do on social media, there would be at least like
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: one hundred comments saying shut up you're demoted, or shut
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: up demotion or they called me demoted.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: Oh my god. It was like for a down like
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: it was. It was really hard.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: It made me feel really bad about myself and it
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: took me a while to get passed.
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: Listen, and the truth is said, they weren't calling you demoted.
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: They were calling you a whore, a thief people on
• 5:52
  Speaker 3: social media. Social media is the devil. So it's like,
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: if they're not calling you one thing, at least that's
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: been what I've seen, they're calling you something else. Maybe
• 5:59
  Speaker 3: demoted is like the lesser of many evils. I don't know,
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: but it is really hard. I mean, I didn't have
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: to do this.
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: I still stayed honestly the friend role nothing has changed
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: except for the fact that my family doesn't film. I
• 6:11
  Speaker 2: still am invited to everything I go to, everything I do,
• 6:14
  Speaker 2: a ton of press. I also had a book come
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: out this year, so I'd said I had more press
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: than like anybody's, but I not anybody. I mean, but
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: I had a ton of press, more than I've ever had.
• 6:23
  Speaker 2: So for me, things haven't really changed so much, right,
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: But I can't imagine going from all of this to
• 6:31
  Speaker 2: suddenly being knocked off the show and having none of
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: it anymore, because it.
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: Does dry up.
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: The interesting thing I think is when I watch housewives
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: who have like really rough seasons right like like go
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: through so much, seems so unhappy. I can't imagine being
• 6:47
  Speaker 3: in the spotlight. I mean, you think about someone like
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: Kyle who's been doing it for so long on Beverly Hills,
• 6:54
  Speaker 3: and what she's gone through, the ups and the downs,
• 6:56
  Speaker 3: and then but continuing to want it right, continuing to
• 7:00
  Speaker 3: sign on the dotted line, because what does it mean
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: if you don't, And what are you really losing if
• 7:06
  Speaker 3: you're not a public figure anymore, not a housewife anymore. Again,
• 7:11
  Speaker 3: all of this is not just applied to the housewives,
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: of course, but that's what you know, where we come from,
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: and you know, why would you want to continue going
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: down that rat trap. It's not always that obviously, there's
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: a lot of positives in being a housewife. But you
• 7:28
  Speaker 3: see then when people do, you know, stop being housewives,
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: they want to do it again, or they want to
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: do an ultimate girls trip, or they want to do
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: another show, and so you know, what are they missing.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: It's not easy to be a housewife or a friend
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: of for that matter, and it's also very anxiety producing.
• 7:50
  Speaker 3: It is also an adventure and really can be just
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: so much fun. And of course there's so much about
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: it that's positive, but there are there's stuff that's negative.
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: There's also a really decent paycheck, and we're forgetting that part,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: you know, and a lot of people need this money.
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: But I don't think everyone does. I don't think everyone does.
• 8:08
  Speaker 1: But no, no, no, no, obviously, but I think.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: That I think without the paycheck that there would still
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: be that sort of panic after I don't.
• 8:17
  Speaker 2: I think eighty percent of the Housewolds wouldn't do it
• 8:20
  Speaker 2: if there wasn't a paycheck.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: Really, yeah, I really do. I don't agree.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: I think maybe for a year or two, but I
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: think without a paycheck, I think a lot of them
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: would not.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: That's so interesting. I mean, look at Robin Dixon just left.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: I don't think she made an official announcement yet, so
• 8:35
  Speaker 2: I could be wrong, but as of recording, it's being reported.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: That she left at Candas Dillard.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: I know that Robin's husband has had a shaky job lately.
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure that he's working. I don't know what's
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: going on with that. But I can't imagine that she
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: would walk away from such a big paycheck if she's
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: the only one with a stable income right right now.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: I get that, but you know, you know, also, I
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: think when I started we started recording my first season,
• 9:06
  Speaker 3: which was just whatever a season ago. But one of
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: the producers said to me, and I would have angst
• 9:11
  Speaker 3: throughout the you know, the filming of it and stuff
• 9:15
  Speaker 3: that would go down. It was my first season, and
• 9:17
  Speaker 3: it was extremely uncomfortable and being me and being this neurotic,
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: there was stuff that just wouldn't just sort of you know,
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: you've been doing this a while. I just didn't feel like, well,
• 9:25
  Speaker 3: this is work and this is life. It's it's you know,
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: I think those lines get very blurred, but the producer
• 9:31
  Speaker 3: said to me, I would be like, I can't do this,
• 9:34
  Speaker 3: and he said, really, Let's see what happens after the
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: season airs.
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: Let's see how you feel.
• 9:39
  Speaker 3: Let's see how you feel once you're a little famous,
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: because you'll be the only one that doesn't get addicted
• 9:45
  Speaker 3: to it. And so obviously I do think it's some money.
• 9:50
  Speaker 3: I do agree with you that you have to factor
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: in all of these things. But when you go from
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: being I mean, I'm not famous. You have been doing
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: this a lot longer than I have, Jackie, so it's
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: a different thing for you. But when you go from
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: getting so much attention and then all of a sudden,
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: you don't, I think that's an esteem thing. It's a
• 10:08
  Speaker 3: certainly it's an identity thing. And I know that I'm
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: because I am new to all of this. Still I
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: try to prep myself because, especially if I'm fifty five
• 10:17
  Speaker 3: years old, like, my trajectory is not to be the
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: next you, Teresa Judas. You won't see me in twenty years,
• 10:23
  Speaker 3: you know, being a housewife. So it's it's going to end,
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: whether it ends, this is it or it's going to.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: End for everybody right flash, Like I don't think anybody
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: is going to be here in a decade from now,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: like look back in twenty thirty four, and like it's
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: not happening.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: Well either way. Like I I try to keep myself
• 10:41
  Speaker 3: in check, like and the thing is, I have a
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: whole life outside, like all of us do outside of
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: this show. And I was it's my life was happy,
• 10:51
  Speaker 3: not always happy, but happy and you know, filled with
• 10:55
  Speaker 3: a lot of good stuff before I got on the
• 10:58
  Speaker 3: Housewives of New Jersey. So I just always kind of
• 11:00
  Speaker 3: like doing a check because I see these housewives. They
• 11:02
  Speaker 3: get off and they've seem they're so eager to get
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: back on and they want their jobs back. Is it
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: a money thing, is it a fame thing, is it
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: an esteem thing? Is it an ego thing?
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I think some of them don't have very fulfilling
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: lives outside of the show. I really think that they
• 11:19
  Speaker 2: don't have that much to go back to. I mean,
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: take somebody like and I really like this person, but
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: take somebody like Shannon, right, she's been on the show
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: along to Orange County. Shannon Shannon Badoor on Orange County.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: She's great, bubbly, has beautiful children, but I believe she's
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: an empty nester.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: Now I think, right, they're all off in college.
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: And her relationship of the past three years is like
• 11:47
  Speaker 2: burned to the ground, and he's now dating one of
• 11:50
  Speaker 2: her ex friends very publicly. She just had a horrific,
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: you know, public embarrassing dui where she like hit house
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: and ran away, I mean like and she wants to
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: come back.
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: So I don't think.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: That her life, her life felt very fulfilled outside of it,
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: she had a relationship that was special to her, or
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: she saw her kids all the time. I don't think
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: that I think she'd be in a healthy enough place
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: to say this is not working for me.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: Well, think about though, think about like a Heather du
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: Bro and I would hope that we can like come
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: up with examples that are not just just housewives, because
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: housewise is any tiny they were in it is, But
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: there's also a whole world that there are people that
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: like our guest, who sort of go through you know,
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: being uber famous on TV and then not so. But
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: having said that, like a Heather who doesn't seem to
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: me that she's doing it for the money, seems to
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: have a you know, you never know obviously what really
• 12:49
  Speaker 3: goes down with people, but adorable what it is for
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: adorable kids. They see her and Terry seem madly in love.
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: But if she keeps signing up for it and ps,
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: I don't think every season is that easy for her.
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: I think she has a lot of really, really tough seasons.
• 13:03
  Speaker 3: So what's that about that you? So? I think that
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: people can have full lives, but there's an addiction that
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: happens here. So it's I think it's the money. I
• 13:11
  Speaker 3: think it's the fame. And what is that about? Like
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: if people don't recognize you, do you not feel like
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: you're enough?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: If I think for a lot of people, that was
• 13:20
  Speaker 2: where I am was last year, but where I am
• 13:23
  Speaker 2: now is so drastically different.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: I am not.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: I'm saying this honestly. I am so not addicted to this.
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: You see the way I am.
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I don't go to like the things like every I
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: don't go to the opening of an envelope the way
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: that everybody else does, like I pick and choose now,
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: I don't feel the need to be in the center
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: because I know, based on the things I've done this
• 13:42
  Speaker 2: last year, I know that I can remain if I
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: want to remain in the spotlight. I don't need necessarily
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: a show. There's a lot of other things I can do.
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: I don't think that everybody believes that.
• 13:54
  Speaker 3: But what if you can't remain in the spotlight. So
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I'm not talking about you, what I I think I'd
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: be okay, So that's the question, that's I think.
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: But I know I'm smart, I can do things right.
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: But let's say that you don't feel that way because
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: I work I talk about this a lot in therapy,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: and so if you're not famous, if you can't make
• 14:11
  Speaker 3: yourself famous another way, right, So so I do really
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: work on trying to understand that, like the fame, being
• 14:20
  Speaker 3: at the top or being at the bottom, none of
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: it is really real, right, So if you're not in
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: touch with yourself and who you are. And I don't
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: want to get all you know, therap pew dick and
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: but it's it's just what I do work on it.
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: I worked on it way before this show. But let's
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: say you know you're not at the top and you
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: get kicked off a show, or you know you're at
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: the very bottom trying to climb up, or at the
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: top trying to avoid getting you know, fire, whatever a
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: situation that's in it all goes back to the fact
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: that if you're not content, you know, within yourself, I
• 14:53
  Speaker 3: know that not only are you enough, Like and again
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry for all this. Hope this doesn't sound too corny,
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: but that you are okay, and you are loved, and
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: you're not more because you're famous, and you're not less
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: because you're famous, and it's all just a matter of
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: you know, that feeling of loving yourself and not needing
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: attention from outside.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: True and yes, but also you have to believe that
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: there are other ways.
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: I mean, like we'll talk to our guests about but
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: like he had a very hard departure from his you know,
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: the show that defined him. But as we'll learn today,
• 15:33
  Speaker 2: he is embarking on some new ventures and they're really
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: really exciting and very big. It's very easy to think
• 15:48
  Speaker 2: that this is it and when one door closes, then
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: your life just closes down.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: No, I don't want to. I think that it's that's
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: the trick. I hope.
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: That's what I try to prep my own self for,
• 16:00
  Speaker 3: like feeling all of this and this is such an
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: adventure and you know, being at a premiere and there's
• 16:06
  Speaker 3: cameras and oh my god, I can't you know, it's
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: overwhelming and very exciting, but it doesn't I'm really I
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: really try hard. That's not what I want to define me,
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: you know, and that's not what I want to fill
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: me up. I wanted to be exciting in the moment,
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: have the fun, and then be able to step back
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: and know that if it went away, I'll be okay.
• 16:28
  Speaker 3: I mean, I was even thinking about like TJ and Amy.
• 16:31
  Speaker 3: TJ Holmes and Amy Robach. We talked about them last week.
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: But the way that they said aft you know, now
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: that they're not on Good Morning America, they would never
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: go back. I don't know what the future holds for
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: them exactly, but how they said that, they were really
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: so unhappy. You know, on Good Morning America, TJ spoke
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: about the depression that he battled and it got really
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: really bad for a while. But it's interesting because they
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: they were there, both of them were there for such
• 17:00
  Speaker 3: a long time, and they were they're both very famous,
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: both in the spotlight, and now they're not, and you know,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: in some ways there's so much happier. So I don't know,
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: maybe they do crave the spotlight back. I don't know
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: what they know. Their next move is but I think
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: it's always a mixed bag. But I definitely think that
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: for someone like our guests, we're being very mysterious about
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: the guest. And for a lot of housewives, and I'm
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: not a housewife, I'm a friend of a housewife. But
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: if this is my last season, I am, there could
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: be a big I could have a big identity crisis.
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: I really really hope not, but it's certainly possible because
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: I see it, you know, with other people that have
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: been housewives or friends of how to handle that and
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: how to know that, like life goes on and you're
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: enough even if you walk into a restaurant and no
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: one knows who you are, which.
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: Is actually and like I want me talking to plenty
• 17:58
  Speaker 2: of restaurants, and I am people like to get free
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: stuff all the time.
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I might get like a.
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: Free canoli at the end of dinner, but like it's
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, if I'm out at an event that I'm
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: invited to, of course they get free stuff. But like
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: in general, I'm paying for my meals. I pay for everything.
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: By the way, I'm one of these people who don't
• 18:15
  Speaker 2: like to take advantage of small businesses. So I know
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: plenty of people are always like, you should get this
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: for free, you should get even people on our cast.
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: No, you should get that for free, and you should
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: get that. I don't want to I would.
• 18:24
  Speaker 2: I mean, of course, everybody likes a freebie, but like,
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: I'm not going to ask for anything from a small
• 18:28
  Speaker 2: business that's not offering it for free, because I believe
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: that like that's I want to help.
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: Them succeed and thrive.
• 18:35
  Speaker 3: I think that a lot of small businesses or not
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: even small business, but they want the exposure quote unquote
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: you know, so like if you highlight my company and
• 18:45
  Speaker 3: what we do, that'll bring more business. And I think
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: a lot of stuff is negotiated like that.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: If they approach me and they want it like that,
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: that's one thing. But like to push a small business
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: to give me things for free is not great in
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: my personality.
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: But I do think that we like that on reality TV.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: And one thing that makes it really hard to stay
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: there and maybe a blessing in disguise when you do leave.
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: Not not me, I'm saying other people who have decided
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: to leave, is that it's the public really enjoys watching
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: people fail and canceling them and watching them discover their
• 19:26
  Speaker 2: spouse is cheating or having a mental breakdown or you know,
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: having going bankrupt or getting a dui. Like the internet
• 19:33
  Speaker 2: goes crazy, we go crazy?
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: Is that? Why? Why do we?
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: And it's and I say we because you know, in
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: the past, watching everything goes back to the housewise all
• 19:42
  Speaker 3: rose lead back to houses. But watching housewives and there
• 19:44
  Speaker 3: were cast members or whatever characters that I really didn't like,
• 19:48
  Speaker 3: right that I thought, you know, this one is such
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: a bitch. And then something happened, and unfortunately I would
• 19:55
  Speaker 3: get satisfaction, not something necessarily was horri horrifying or I'm
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: not talking about you know, God forbid, like an illness
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: or a child or anything like that, but like when
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: you see someone kind of get theirs and I hate
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: that part of myself and I know it's there and
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: it makes me human and I know for all of
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: us that's I mean, And that's a battle ife fight,
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: right too, even if I when you don't like someone,
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: still knowing that they're human and still praying for their health,
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: wealth and happiness.
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: But it's not easy.
• 20:27
  Speaker 3: And I do sometimes myself when I really don't like
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: someone and I'm watching them on a housewives show, get
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: satisfaction out of like, ha, you know you got yours.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: And it's just I think it's a human response. It
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: is very human and but but it's also very sad.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: We do.
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: We are in a and I'm not saying it's always wrong.
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: I'm saying sometimes people do truly deserve to be canceled.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: But man, do we cancel people really? Oh my god?
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's brutal and that I am not into the
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: cancel culture at Yeah, I'm not.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: Really into it either.
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: And I think if somebody does something really terrible, like
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: that's one thing. But wow, we cancel curiously. We don't
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: cancel people for anti Semitism that easily.
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: But it's a different episode. Yes, yes, I.
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: Mean my god, sometimes it feels like you can say
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: anything about us.
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: But I'm with you there, sister. Yeah, we'll go into
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: that another time.
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: So, but what about you do you do you have
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: like this big fear of not being asked back?
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: No, And I know that you don't always even probably
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: don't even necessarily believe me because it feels like everybody
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: is so afraid of being not being asked BacT. I
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: don't have a fear about it. I have though at
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: a healthy self awareness that if I don't, my ego
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: will be bruised. And that's a different thing. I don't
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: have a fear that like my life won't go on.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: It's more an ego thing. And it's more like, oh,
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: I wasn't good enough and they were better than me,
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: and I am not proud of that. But it's not
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: like what will I do now? It's more, you know, Well,
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: when I was told that I was just going to
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: be a friend of at the beginning, when we were
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: all brought in, Danielle and Rachel and myself, and then
• 22:08
  Speaker 3: it was going to be decided who was going to
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: go on to become a housewife, and it wasn't me.
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: I was going to stay a friend of anyway. That first,
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: the moment that I found out, and probably for a day,
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: I was like devastated, how dare you? I feel like
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: I've spoken about this on the on this have we
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: spoken about this before here on the pod? Well, when
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: I found out, I was like, you know, how dare you?
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: And then I was just I was I found myself
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: getting choked up after hearing it, and I was just spinning.
• 22:40
  Speaker 3: And a friend of mine, her name is Marcy anyway, she.
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: I was talking to her about it and very upset,
• 22:49
  Speaker 3: and she's like, I don't know what you're talking about. Like,
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: you've got to be kidding me. You have an opportunity
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: to do something that is so exciting, and you're getting
• 22:59
  Speaker 3: to do it without having to expose so much. Have
• 23:03
  Speaker 3: people come into your home and you know, put Jeff
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: through cameras in his face, and although I think now
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: Jeff probably would have loved it, but anyway, so you know,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: you have like such a great scenario going here, and
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: what do you what do you at?
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Like, what do you want?
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: And I had to like stop, think it through, and
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: all of a sudden, and I swear this is true
• 23:27
  Speaker 3: because I was like, well, I'm not gonna do it.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: If I'm gonna I called the next day. I called
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: the producers not making this up, and I said, guys,
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: please ignore me.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: It was all my ego. I'm good.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: I just felt like in that moment, this sense of rejection.
• 23:45
  Speaker 3: And even when I started, I was like, you know what,
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: I don't think I'm going to be end up being
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: a housewife. I'll be a friend of a housewife. That'll
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: be great, but it's it. It was all my ego
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: and it worked out for me beautifully, right. I had
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: a great time. We had a great time, and you
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: know it wasn't I watched some of our other cast
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: mates and they get it's just so invasive.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: I mean, Jen, you want to know the honest truth.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: And I don't think I've said this to you. I
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: think it was just an age thing. And I don't
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: think that Bravo's agist. I just think that they're like,
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: they wanted young, young families. That's what Jersey is, It's families, agreed.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: I really think that you.
• 24:22
  Speaker 2: I think you and I'm not just saying this because
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: you're my closest friend on the cast, but I think
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: that you have the most dynamic personality of the three movies.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I really do. I think that people love you.
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: I've never seen people drawn to a friend the way
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: that they are to you, and I've never seen.
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: A friend grow so fast the way that you have.
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: But and people don't even realize you're a friend, Like
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: everyone just calls you a housewife. But I think that
• 24:46
  Speaker 2: that they want young families.
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: Firstly, I appreciate what you just said.
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Jack, And yeah, I mean I was very
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: happy with the amount of you know, airtime I got
• 24:57
  Speaker 3: and all of that worked out, and I agree that
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: it is Jersey is a family franchise, and so of
• 25:03
  Speaker 3: course think that that has a lot to do that
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: I'm an empty nester, you know. But I will say
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: that it was just an interesting ride for me the
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: first couple of days to go from like this feeling
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: of you know, rejection and inadequacy to wow, you dumb bitch,
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: like this is a great scenario for you.
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: Are you crazy?
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: And I remember the next morning calling the producers insane
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: guys because I was huffing and puffing. I was like,
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: please forgive me. It was my ego. I'm good, this
• 25:33
  Speaker 3: is all great, So just forget what I said. And
• 25:38
  Speaker 3: it wasn't just because I didn't, you know, even wanted
• 25:41
  Speaker 3: to stay on the show. And I was just like,
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: really just felt like my feelings were just hurt. Yeah,
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: And so I was sort of reacting from that and
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: then I stepped back from it. But guess what then
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: again this past summer, when I was told I'm going
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: to be a friend of again, because I had people
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: saying are you going to be full time? I had
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: the same like like there was no I had the
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: same reaction, I was like, what, I was totally cool.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I was like, okay, peace, well I.
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: Was I was again my feelings were hurt. And then
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: again I swear I'm not making this up. The next day,
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: I was like, you dumb bitch, get a grip, like
• 26:15
  Speaker 3: this was so fun the first time, it'll be fun
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: the second time.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I guess is here.
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: But I just want to say, with regard to the
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: people that have left the shows as of recording time,
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: I hope that Candice has a really successful music career
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: because I think she's very talented and I thoroughly enjoy
• 26:32
  Speaker 2: her song drive Back.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: I think it's such a bop, and I wish only
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: a really.
• 26:37
  Speaker 2: Successful career for her. But so, why don't you announce
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: our guests?
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: You guys, we are really really excited. So today's guest,
• 26:46
  Speaker 3: I think you probably all will know. He's somebody that
• 26:52
  Speaker 3: did a reality show for how many years?
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Jack? Oh god, I don't even know. Forever, fifteen years? Well,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: I can't forever was right?
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: He was the heart and soul of a shifty years Okay,
• 27:03
  Speaker 3: so he was the heart and soul of a show
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: you may know called The Bachelor.
• 27:07
  Speaker 1: Our guest is Chris Harrison.
• 27:09
  Speaker 4: Hi, Chris Harrison, good afternoon, Good day to you. How's
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: it going, Good.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: Day to you. Well, it's going well. Now we are.
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: We've actually, you guys had the honor of being on
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: Chris's podcast.
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: That was a really really good day.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: And we've been pressuring him to come on ours, and
• 27:29
  Speaker 3: he broke under the pressure.
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: Finally I did.
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: Finally. First of all, congratulations because the podcast is doing
• 27:36
  Speaker 4: amazingly well. You guys are crushing it. The numbers have
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: been fantastic.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 27:40
  Speaker 4: It doesn't surprise me that you guys have really resonated
• 27:43
  Speaker 4: with the fans and everybody. He's loving it. And so
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: I really don't do a lot of podcasts anymore because,
• 27:49
  Speaker 4: as you know, when you have your own podcast, you
• 27:51
  Speaker 4: kind of need to save all the good dirt.
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: True, Yeah, that's very true.
• 27:55
  Speaker 4: But I did. I broke down for you too.
• 27:58
  Speaker 2: Okay, So feel free not to answer anything you don't
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: want to answer, but we're going to ask all the questions.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: So now we won't we won't.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: Put you on the spot, but we are excited to
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: congratulate you. We heard that you have a new TV comeback.
• 28:13
  Speaker 2: Can you tell us about it?
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, this has been such a phenomenal blessing and kind
• 28:20
  Speaker 4: of I would say, a nice surprise, but we've been
• 28:23
  Speaker 4: working at it for a while, so it's not like
• 28:25
  Speaker 4: it just came out of nowhere. But we have joined
• 28:27
  Speaker 4: forces with Doctor Phil at Merritt Street Media. You know,
• 28:30
  Speaker 4: there was a big story a year or two ago
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: whatever when Doctor Phil decided to up and leave CBS,
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: and everyone's like, what in the world. He's the number
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: one talk show host. What is happening? And it's a
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: big deal for CBS to lose him. And he had
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: been quietly working behind the scenes to build and bought
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: a network that is called Merritt Street Media. It's debuting
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: April second. It'll be the biggest network debut ever, over
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: eighty million subscribers, from Dish to direct to all the
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: cable companies. And he came to us US, meaning Lauren
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: and I my wife, and we had our production company,
• 29:09
  Speaker 4: and he said, look, I think it's crazy you're not
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: on TV. I don't understand it. I want you back
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: on TV, and I want you to be working on
• 29:17
  Speaker 4: my show, Doctor Phil Primetime, kind of what he was
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: doing with Oprah, I will be doing with him. We've
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: already started taping those shows, but then he said, I
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: want you guys to think bigger. What do you want
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: to do? And so Lauren and I are in the
• 29:29
  Speaker 4: midst of cranking out a morning show. We're in the
• 29:32
  Speaker 4: hiring phase of that. There will also be a relationship show,
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: a reality show. And it is maybe the most incredible
• 29:39
  Speaker 4: exciting news I've had in my career. I mean so
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: pumped to be doing this.
• 29:43
  Speaker 2: Are you the talent on the morning show where you're
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: just putting it together as a producer.
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: No, Laura and I are going to be hosting it together.
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: We're going to take We're taking the magic of the
• 29:53
  Speaker 4: podcast and we're launching it into a morning show.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: I love that.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: Working with Lauren is phenomenal. She is incredibly funny, very
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: good at improv, took you know, worked on improv for
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: many years, has a great comedic note to her. But
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: she's also brilliant and smart and well read and pushes
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: me in.
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: That's exactly what Jeff Sessler says about me. Yeah, like
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Worth would kill me if we were goodness. But so
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: the dating show is it's different than The Bachelor? I'm
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: assuming of course.
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: Yes, it'll be. It'll it'll be different. We won't say
• 30:27
  Speaker 4: how and what just yet, but it has been something
• 30:32
  Speaker 4: that this idea we we kind of hatched and then
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: I was this doctor Phil thing came and we went
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: and pitched it to him because now that I'm kind
• 30:43
  Speaker 4: of in the family and I want to keep everything
• 30:44
  Speaker 4: on Merritt Street. He bought it in the room and
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: it really is refreshing because you know, you guys are
• 30:50
  Speaker 4: obviously in the industry. The industry has been dumped on
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: its head lately. Yeah, you know, everybody is contracting cutting.
• 31:00
  Speaker 4: It's the business has become very much business and not
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: creative anymore. The people making the decisions are bean counters
• 31:08
  Speaker 4: and tech people, and they're not creatives who understand the
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: business who have many of them have never even created
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: television before, and they're making these huge decisions, and you're
• 31:18
  Speaker 4: seeing the repercussions. These streamers are struggling. They're either closing
• 31:22
  Speaker 4: their doors or they are massively cutting costs. Same thing
• 31:26
  Speaker 4: with a lot of these studios. Now you have doctor
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: Phil who is doing the exact opposite. He is a host,
• 31:32
  Speaker 4: he has created before, and he's the one that's pulling
• 31:35
  Speaker 4: the strings and he is creating this network and it
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: has been so refreshing.
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: I bet when do you think that started? When do
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: you think that switch began? And I don't know if
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: you're also talking about the way we were talking about
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: people getting canceled and buyed and all of that, and
• 31:50
  Speaker 3: we'll get into that certainly with you, but what do
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: you think that's about. When did that switch happen where
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: it became about being counters making decisions and as opposed
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: to creative people being able.
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: To do their thing.
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: You know, Lauren and I talk about this a lot
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: because we're very much into the business, and we listened
• 32:07
  Speaker 4: to so many podcasts about this, and you know, you
• 32:10
  Speaker 4: would have to go there was first Netflix and Netflix
• 32:15
  Speaker 4: came on the scene and you remember like House of
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: Cards with Kevin Spacey and Lamon Wright and it was incredible.
• 32:22
  Speaker 4: But at the same time, you're hearing these numbers and
• 32:25
  Speaker 4: it's twenty million dollars for this and twenty million dollars
• 32:28
  Speaker 4: for this, and the right you're thinking to yourself, wait,
• 32:31
  Speaker 4: you have no advertising. You're charging four dollars or seven
• 32:34
  Speaker 4: dollars a month for subscription and you're paying one hundreds
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: of million dollars. This is not sustainable. This can't work,
• 32:41
  Speaker 4: and then you had this flood of Peacock and Hulu
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: and you name it Paramount. Everybody was like, oh my god,
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: we got to have a streamer. Well, again, it's not
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: sustainable because you have no advertising dollars. Well, and seven
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: to ten dollars a month from a subscriber is not
• 32:56
  Speaker 4: going to make it possible to make a Game Thrones
• 33:00
  Speaker 4: or to make any of these incredible epic movies or shows.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: And so I think you had the Amazons of the
• 33:08
  Speaker 4: world Apples of the world. To them, it's a rounding air.
• 33:12
  Speaker 4: They don't care.
• 33:13
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: Amazon is not worried about making television. They hope you
• 33:17
  Speaker 4: buy underwear. They hope you're buying your shoes. So it's
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: a rounding air for them. If they lose money on
• 33:24
  Speaker 4: their streamer, it doesn't matter. Same thing with Apple. They're
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: the most cash flush company in the world. So if
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: they lose money on Masters of the Air with Tom
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: Hanks and Spielberg, they don't care. It's not that big
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: of it. I mean, I say they don't care. They
• 33:38
  Speaker 4: would love to make money, but it's not a big
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: deal because what they care about is that you and
• 33:42
  Speaker 4: I are sitting here with our phones and then you
• 33:46
  Speaker 4: have apples and oranges, right, you have real studios like
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: Disney and some of these you know, some of these
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: studios that they really need the content to work. That's
• 33:55
  Speaker 4: how they make their money. So when you have people
• 33:57
  Speaker 4: trying to make money off content and company that don't care,
• 34:01
  Speaker 4: something's got to give.
• 34:04
  Speaker 3: Very interesting and Merritt Street is going to be one
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: of those that actually care.
• 34:08
  Speaker 4: That the best name by the way, ever, well, it
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: was very intentional, doctor Phil was very intentional on merit
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: and earning the respect and trying to make television for
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: the rest of the country that feels like they've really
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: been left out of the conversation lately. Wow, and and
• 34:25
  Speaker 4: kind of take over the debate world, and let's start
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: having television and news for those that don't want to
• 34:32
  Speaker 4: just win an argument. You would really like toy solve
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: problem A.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Well, I'm really excited to see you back on TV.
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: Was there any hesitation on your part, considering you got
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: pretty beat up by the TV world by social media?
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: Was there any hesitation?
• 34:50
  Speaker 4: Not at all? You know, I luckily, you know, I
• 34:54
  Speaker 4: was divorced and went through a you know, I was
• 34:57
  Speaker 4: married for what seventeen eighteen years and then got divorced,
• 34:59
  Speaker 4: and I may I'm sure that after I got divorced,
• 35:01
  Speaker 4: because the one thing we all do, whether we go
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: through something tragic or grief or divorce, is there's that
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: snapback of like, oh my gosh, I need to start
• 35:09
  Speaker 4: dating again, or I need to get back out there,
• 35:11
  Speaker 4: I need to be back in a relationship. And I
• 35:13
  Speaker 4: was very good about pumping the brakes, giving myself time
• 35:17
  Speaker 4: to heal, grow, get my life back in order, and
• 35:21
  Speaker 4: then start dating again. I felt the same thing about
• 35:25
  Speaker 4: the Bacheler. I've been doing it for nineteen years, and
• 35:28
  Speaker 4: obviously there was that traumatic split with the Bachelor, and
• 35:32
  Speaker 4: I pumped the brakes and just took some time off
• 35:34
  Speaker 4: and made sure I got my kids off to college
• 35:36
  Speaker 4: and enjoyed that. I fell in love and got married
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: to Lauren Zema and really got my sea legs back
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: under me. But now the fire was burning again, and
• 35:44
  Speaker 4: I really got to the point where the podcast was going.
• 35:48
  Speaker 4: But that's not enough for me. I want to do more.
• 35:50
  Speaker 4: And this came along and it was just the perfect timing.
• 35:54
  Speaker 4: So when doctor Phil approached us and we went and
• 35:56
  Speaker 4: had lunch several times, and he says, I want you back,
• 35:58
  Speaker 4: there was no question, no has it at all, especially
• 36:01
  Speaker 4: considering how he's doing it and what this network stands for.
• 36:05
  Speaker 3: So I'm interested in two things. Well, first where in
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: the kron a lot chronology of it all? The divorce
• 36:15
  Speaker 3: and your exit from the Bachelor?
• 36:17
  Speaker 4: Oh uh, nowhere close? We were my divorce, I like
• 36:21
  Speaker 4: what twenty eleven? I think it was. So it was
• 36:24
  Speaker 4: a while ago, okay, and then took some time to
• 36:27
  Speaker 4: be single and dated and you know, it was in
• 36:30
  Speaker 4: some relationships, and then you know, it took a while
• 36:32
  Speaker 4: to come back around and find the one and only
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: Lauren Zema.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: Well, I ask you because I and this is obviously
• 36:39
  Speaker 3: where we're going with all of this. And I don't
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: know how much you've actually spoken about your exit from
• 36:44
  Speaker 3: the Bachelor, but I'm picturing a scenario that must have
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: been very, very difficult. So and then picturing divorce a
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: divorce into the mix. So I'm glad that you had
• 36:53
  Speaker 3: some separation from those two things. And maybe you're going
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: to tell us that it wasn't difficult, But I really
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: think that you are going to tell us that your
• 36:59
  Speaker 3: exit from the Bachelor was not pleasant.
• 37:02
  Speaker 4: Oh, of course it was not pleasant. It was, and
• 37:05
  Speaker 4: one hundred percent I've said it's difficult, and it was difficult.
• 37:09
  Speaker 4: I wouldn't wish that. I wouldn't wish what we went through.
• 37:13
  Speaker 4: And I say, well, because it was my family as
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: well on anybody. It was brutal. But at the same time, oddly,
• 37:19
  Speaker 4: and I really haven't spoken about this, it definitely helped
• 37:23
  Speaker 4: that I had gone through a divorce. Obviously, the divorce
• 37:27
  Speaker 4: it was public, but it wasn't as traumatic and crazy
• 37:31
  Speaker 4: and it wasn't as sensationalized as the departure from The
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: Bachelor was. But at the same time, the lessons you
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: learn when you go through things in life. You know,
• 37:39
  Speaker 4: for example, if I had if what I had gone
• 37:42
  Speaker 4: through with the Bachelor separation had happened when I was
• 37:44
  Speaker 4: thirty years old, thirty five years old, it would I
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: would not have handled it and been able to cope
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: with it as well as going through it at forty
• 37:54
  Speaker 4: nine or fifty or how well, however old I was
• 37:56
  Speaker 4: at the time. Experience helps in anything, go through it life.
• 38:00
  Speaker 3: Chris, I love this because we are, you know, talking
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: about well we talk. We always refer a lot to
• 38:06
  Speaker 3: the Housewives for obvious reasons, but of course, but how
• 38:09
  Speaker 3: to handle that feeling of being, you know, of losing
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: quote unquote relevance and your whole identity. I would think
• 38:16
  Speaker 3: so much of it was I hope not, but I'm
• 38:18
  Speaker 3: assuming was wrapped up and being the host of the Bachelor.
• 38:22
  Speaker 3: But you'd been through this before, You've been through this
• 38:25
  Speaker 3: sort of loss and these changes, and it's I would
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: love for you to speak more to that, like what
• 38:32
  Speaker 3: could you bring into the loss of the Bachelor from
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: your divorce and how how did you maintain?
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, how did you get through it?
• 38:42
  Speaker 2: Because I mean, I was demoted at one point and
• 38:44
  Speaker 2: it was quite a traumatic to my identity and it
• 38:48
  Speaker 2: took me a while to find my way back.
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: I always and you know it's funny, I always preached
• 38:53
  Speaker 4: and lived by a certain value in a code that
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: luckily came to fruition during my separation of the Bachelor,
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: and that was I never identified myself from what I did.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: I was never a big Hollywood guy. I never defined
• 39:11
  Speaker 4: myself by being the Bachelor host. That was not my being.
• 39:14
  Speaker 4: My being was being a good dad, being a good husband,
• 39:18
  Speaker 4: being a great friend. All my friends, most if not
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: all of them, trying to think aren't in the business
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: at all. The weird thing about The Bachelor was especially
• 39:31
  Speaker 4: early on we were kind of the bastard stepchild of television,
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: you know, long before Housewives and all that. This reality
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: TV thing was not welcomed by the community. I remember
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: going to the upfronts and Lloyd Brown was the president
• 39:44
  Speaker 4: of ABC and I was on stage at the I
• 39:47
  Speaker 4: think it was Radio City Music Hall in New York,
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: and they're announcing all the fall schedules for what's coming up,
• 39:52
  Speaker 4: and it's like, according to Jim and NYPD Blue and
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: they're like, and I hate to say it, it's unfortunate,
• 40:00
  Speaker 4: and you know, I hope it dies a miserable death.
• 40:03
  Speaker 4: But the Bachelor's coming to ABC. And I'm like, I
• 40:08
  Speaker 4: really felt like, you know, the prostitute of like, sure,
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: everybody wants to sleep with us, nobody wants to be seen.
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: At lunch with us. That's so funny.
• 40:17
  Speaker 4: It's funny, and it's funny the because you know, when
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: there's change in the industry, when there's change in life,
• 40:24
  Speaker 4: the norm fights back, right. So TV writers and producers
• 40:28
  Speaker 4: and even actors were like, they're taking our jobs, they're
• 40:32
  Speaker 4: ruining the business. And you know, my whole thing was
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: I've never seen a great television show that everybody loves
• 40:38
  Speaker 4: be canceled for anything, much less amen a reality show.
• 40:43
  Speaker 4: If you have a great show that's doing well, trust me,
• 40:45
  Speaker 4: it's not going anywhere. But the funny thing is is
• 40:48
  Speaker 4: then everything does a oneint eighty and all those people
• 40:51
  Speaker 4: who are bitching and moaning are now hosting game shows,
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: hosting reality shows are a part of those shows or
• 40:56
  Speaker 4: producing shows. So everybody came around. But early days, it
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: was really funny how we were treated, and so I
• 41:03
  Speaker 4: was totally I was never really a part of the
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: Hollywood community, and I never lived in Hollywood. I always
• 41:09
  Speaker 4: lived outside of you know, out of LA and you know,
• 41:13
  Speaker 4: raised my kids. And I was the only person, you know,
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: in the Housewives. There's a group of you. Well, for me,
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: I was the only host that stayed. I was the
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: only constant, you know. The Bachelor and bacherettes came and went,
• 41:25
  Speaker 4: and so I never really had a cast to hang
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: out with. When I would go promote it at ABC
• 41:29
  Speaker 4: or other events, I was by myself, and so it
• 41:31
  Speaker 4: was a very weird existence but also probably beneficial in
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: the end.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: I just absolutely love everything you just said because and
• 41:40
  Speaker 3: I would love to adopt it for myself. And we're
• 41:42
  Speaker 3: talking about one day it's going to be over. Maybe
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: one day soon it'll be over for me, and it has.
• 41:48
  Speaker 3: I mean, you can't compare. I've been on a Friend
• 41:51
  Speaker 3: of the housewive for two years. For two minutes, it
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: feels like Jackie's been on a lot longer. But to
• 41:55
  Speaker 3: have that sense of identity that can't be swayed by
• 42:00
  Speaker 3: being canceled or even fired, right, like you're saying, you
• 42:03
  Speaker 3: were filled with children and friendships and living somewhere else.
• 42:10
  Speaker 3: So maybe it didn't take you down in the same
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: way that it would up if you were younger.
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: But I think you also trusted the process and knew
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: that other things were to come because you believed in
• 42:19
  Speaker 2: your talent and what in your drive, right.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Is that true?
• 42:23
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 42:23
  Speaker 4: And I think at the end of the day, you
• 42:25
  Speaker 4: got to believe in yourself, and you believe. I know
• 42:27
  Speaker 4: I'm a good man, I know my values, I know
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: everything that I've stood for for my entire life, much
• 42:35
  Speaker 4: less than nineteen years that people have gotten to know
• 42:37
  Speaker 4: me on the show, And so I wasn't worried about
• 42:40
  Speaker 4: some of the things that were being said about me
• 42:42
  Speaker 4: because I just I know they're not true, right, It
• 42:44
  Speaker 4: didn't affect me in that way. It definitely affected my
• 42:47
  Speaker 4: life and it affected me, but at that part I
• 42:50
  Speaker 4: knew I'm a big believer in karma, and I just
• 42:54
  Speaker 4: know the truth will come out and I know people will,
• 42:56
  Speaker 4: good people win in the end. I truly believe that,
• 43:00
  Speaker 4: big optimist. But you know, I also think and i'd
• 43:03
  Speaker 4: be interested to throw this back on the two of you.
• 43:05
  Speaker 4: I know it was easier for me because I'm a host,
• 43:09
  Speaker 4: and while you saw my life somewhat and you got
• 43:12
  Speaker 4: to know me, I was the host of the show,
• 43:15
  Speaker 4: whereas with you too and all the housewives, the show
• 43:20
  Speaker 4: is about your life technically, you know, is everything one
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: hundred percent real? No, But it's still you, it's your values.
• 43:26
  Speaker 4: We're watching your lives, your marriages, your divorces. So I'm
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: just curious how the two of you can walk that line.
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: It was maybe a little bit easier for me as
• 43:34
  Speaker 4: a host.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: That's that's I think more a question for you, Jack,
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: only because you've been doing it for longer.
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: I mean, how did I walk that lot?
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: How did I?
• 43:41
  Speaker 5: Well?
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: I think are you saying that because it was part
• 43:44
  Speaker 3: of your actual personal life.
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: So how was it for me to step back from that?
• 43:48
  Speaker 4: How does it? How does that not define your how?
• 43:52
  Speaker 2: And when I look around at all the other house eyes,
• 43:55
  Speaker 2: I mean at Bravocon, I was looking around and like,
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: I think that most of the people in that room
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: feel defined. They are a housewife first and foremost, and
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: it was a really really hard transition. It does define you,
• 44:09
  Speaker 2: and that's that's something that I feel very grateful to
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: have been able to step back and work on myself
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: and realize that it doesn't, because it actually allowed me
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: to do a lot of other creative things in the
• 44:19
  Speaker 2: past year.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: I wrote a book, I started a podcast, I have
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: some other projects starting.
• 44:24
  Speaker 2: And I don't think I would have been able to
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: do that had my entire life been defined by housewives.
• 44:30
  Speaker 4: And I guess we should also differentiate because people might
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: be listening and thinking, well, this is what you're known for,
• 44:37
  Speaker 4: and there's something different. I understand what I'm known for,
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: and I understand, you know, like tonight, Jason Tartick is
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: here in Austin, Texas. He's doing a big book launch
• 44:47
  Speaker 4: for his new book, and Lauren and I are going
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: to go support him. I understand that and I understand. Like,
• 44:52
  Speaker 4: I just went back home to Missouri. My son was
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: playing lacrosse at Missoo and so we went up there
• 44:57
  Speaker 4: because Lauren went to school at Miszoo College kids. Everybody
• 45:01
  Speaker 4: was coming up and talking about The Bachelor. And I
• 45:04
  Speaker 4: understand what I'm known for. And I will never fight that.
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: You know, I'm never one of those people of like, hey,
• 45:10
  Speaker 4: I'm going to Merritt Street, Please don't bring up The Bachelor.
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: Believe me to be proud of it.
• 45:16
  Speaker 1: Of course I am.
• 45:17
  Speaker 4: I you know, I'm not proud of everything, but I'm
• 45:19
  Speaker 4: very proud of what I did. We've made television history
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: over twenty years, and so I will never fight that.
• 45:25
  Speaker 4: And I understand what I'm known for. I guess what
• 45:27
  Speaker 4: I'm I just want to make sure there's a clarification
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: of uh, like what Jackie's saying. I understand what you're
• 45:32
  Speaker 4: known for, But what defines your right right? What do
• 45:37
  Speaker 4: you allow in your heart and soul of When I
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: wake up in the morning of like, Okay, I'm the
• 45:40
  Speaker 4: Bachelor guy, It's like, no, I'm I'm a husband, I'm
• 45:43
  Speaker 4: a dad, I'm a good friend.
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: Can I ase you a personal question that you don't
• 45:55
  Speaker 3: have to answer, Well, I'm asking you if I can,
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: I'm going to so, but you don't have to answer it.
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: So I'm I mean, I talk a lot about the
• 46:01
  Speaker 3: fact that I've been in therapy for years and years
• 46:04
  Speaker 3: and years, twenty years, but I work on this still
• 46:11
  Speaker 3: almost every time every week. And when I say that
• 46:15
  Speaker 3: I work on it, not oh my god, if I
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: lose my position is the house I have more sort
• 46:19
  Speaker 3: of like my identity and becoming comfortable with who I am.
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: And I'm sorry again, I'm just I feel like I'm
• 46:28
  Speaker 3: just very corny on this whole episode, but like loving
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: myself right. But I'm wondering if therapy was something that
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: you've ever been in, or you know, maybe even after
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: you left the Bachelor it was, or you just naturally
• 46:42
  Speaker 3: are this conference and resilient. Yeah, a secure man.
• 46:48
  Speaker 4: Number one, I believe in therapy. Number two, I have
• 46:51
  Speaker 4: gone to therapy. I went to therapy. Started. The first
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: time I ever saw a therapist is back probably in
• 46:59
  Speaker 4: my divorce phase, like ty ten twenty eleven, as I
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: was unwinding. It was a seventeen year marriage. But I've
• 47:07
  Speaker 4: been been with this person, my ex wife, since my
• 47:09
  Speaker 4: sophomore year of college when you're eighteen nineteen years old,
• 47:13
  Speaker 4: and then you know, when you go from eighteen or
• 47:15
  Speaker 4: nineteen to forty, that is you know, those are massive
• 47:20
  Speaker 4: years of your life of growing and things where we
• 47:23
  Speaker 4: should have been dating and getting broken up with and
• 47:25
  Speaker 4: so there was a lot of growing and learning I
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: had to do and needed to do. And when I
• 47:29
  Speaker 4: started dating again, I mean think about that. You're eighteen
• 47:32
  Speaker 4: nineteen years old and you stop, and when I say
• 47:35
  Speaker 4: you stop, it's like you kind of stop developing to
• 47:37
  Speaker 4: a certain degree, right because you have this one person
• 47:42
  Speaker 4: in your life. So I'm not dating anymore. I'm not
• 47:44
  Speaker 4: learning how to you know, break up, love, all this,
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: you know, heartbreak. And so then all of a sudden,
• 47:48
  Speaker 4: I'm forty years old and it's like, okay, now I
• 47:50
  Speaker 4: have a little bit of money, a little bit of fame,
• 47:53
  Speaker 4: start dating again. Oh my god, It's like there's a
• 47:56
  Speaker 4: comedy in there. Believe me, because it was a mess.
• 47:59
  Speaker 4: So I hundred percent believe in in therapy. And my
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: daughter actually is a psychology major going into child development.
• 48:08
  Speaker 4: So we talk about that a lot in our family.
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: Amazing. Can I ask you a question?
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: There was an article an interview that you gave in
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: that was published in December, and you said that you
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: had to remove yourself from a toxic situation and that
• 48:24
  Speaker 2: it wasn't healthy. Were you talking about the show itself
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: or the process by which you were you left the show?
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: Because I think we all have opinions on The Bachelor?
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: Yeah, oh no, no, And so the thing about The
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: Bachelor is the show was an amazing creation and it
• 48:43
  Speaker 4: really was revolutionized reality TV and dating shows. I mean,
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: you look at what's happening today. There is I've always said,
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: there's an insatiable appetite for romance and love. And so
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: you see these other shows that have kind of taken
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: the mantle of the big shows, whether it's Love Is
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: Blind or even a buddy of mine produced f Boy Island,
• 49:05
  Speaker 4: And you know, so there's this huge spectrum of shows
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: now that are doing very well. So there's still this
• 49:11
  Speaker 4: appetite for love and romance. And look, did we do
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: everything perfect over the nineteen years I was there?
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: No?
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: Are they probably? And I haven't watched the show. Are
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: they still doing everything perfectly? Probably?
• 49:22
  Speaker 3: Not?
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: But that wasn't what I was referring to. I was
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: more referring to the world with which I was working
• 49:29
  Speaker 4: in thing too detailed.
• 49:31
  Speaker 3: Do you think there's also an insatiable appetite for heartbreak and.
• 49:36
  Speaker 2: Watching the person get stood up the other person and
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: watching them take him home and meet their families and
• 49:42
  Speaker 2: then get dumped the next day. I just think that
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: it's such a I don't know, we enjoy watching.
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we're talking about that at the beginning of
• 49:48
  Speaker 3: this episode down Fall the heartbreak. And I don't like
• 49:51
  Speaker 3: to admit that about myself, but I do everybody. I
• 49:55
  Speaker 3: have those moments when I'm watching reality TV and I'm
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: not a fan of whomever. I wish that I, you know,
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: could be different, but I'm human and sometimes it's fun
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: to see, you know, somebody get there, somebody get theirs.
• 50:08
  Speaker 4: And look we all. I think, if you you know,
• 50:11
  Speaker 4: it's funny. I just spoke to the journalism school up
• 50:13
  Speaker 4: at Missouri and I said the same I said the
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: same thing. We were talking about this exact topic. If
• 50:18
  Speaker 4: you asked people like it's it's take it to politics.
• 50:22
  Speaker 4: When we give these exit polls for politics, you know
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: the pundits on TV this, how often are those exit
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: polls actually right? Very few times? It's you know, people
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: will vote in private speak publicly we watch TV, and
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: private we will talk publicly, meaning we will say that
• 50:43
  Speaker 4: we love the romance, we love a love story. We
• 50:46
  Speaker 4: like it, you know, the fairy tale ending. But even
• 50:48
  Speaker 4: in any Disney movie, you know what's it start with.
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: It usually starts with a parent being murdered, and then
• 50:54
  Speaker 4: you get to the happy ending. And that's Disney for
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: crying out last night, So we all will you know,
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: in Nascar events, do we want to just see cars
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: drive around in a circle. No, it's the idea that
• 51:06
  Speaker 4: at any moment, at two hundred miles per hour, this
• 51:08
  Speaker 4: car could roll and burst into flames, and often it
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: does happen. And so there when I watched The Housewives,
• 51:16
  Speaker 4: same thing. I don't want to just see a bunch
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: of ladies get together and have mimosas and just giggle.
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: You want to see the trama to see exactly if.
• 51:24
  Speaker 4: Of course, you have to have conflict. Any good movie,
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: any good book, any good story has conflict, and so
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: every good television show, reality or otherwise has to have
• 51:34
  Speaker 4: that conflict as well, and then you want the resolution.
• 51:37
  Speaker 3: Did you get the sense from social media after your
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: departure that people are enjoying your downfall, because as somebody
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: who watched The Bachelor and watched you on it for
• 51:46
  Speaker 3: so long, I found it heartbreaking, and because you know,
• 51:49
  Speaker 3: you weren't part of the mix, you weren't a character.
• 51:52
  Speaker 3: You were the host, and you were a loving host,
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: and you were a respectful host and a fun to watch.
• 52:00
  Speaker 3: But I'm wondering if you felt some of that, like
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: your fall from Greece was.
• 52:06
  Speaker 4: I would add much to this. I would say, much
• 52:09
  Speaker 4: to the chagrin of probably just a few people, it
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: was overwhelmingly positive, good from day one.
• 52:15
  Speaker 1: I'm so glad.
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I felt publicly to this day. People come up
• 52:21
  Speaker 4: to me and it's nothing but love and respect and
• 52:25
  Speaker 4: admiration and this thing we all shared again. I was
• 52:29
  Speaker 4: at Missoo this weekend and these college kids come in
• 52:33
  Speaker 4: and they're like, hey, I grew up watching your show.
• 52:35
  Speaker 4: My mom and I would watch your show and it
• 52:37
  Speaker 4: meant a lot to me. And sadly, a lot of
• 52:40
  Speaker 4: them say they don't watch anymore, and that's that's unfortunate
• 52:43
  Speaker 4: that you know they.
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: You feel like that's unfortunate. You don't like that just
• 52:46
  Speaker 1: a little bit.
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: Well, honestly, this is well, this is a weird thing,
• 52:51
  Speaker 4: because yes, the ratings have plummeted, and there's, of course,
• 52:56
  Speaker 4: there's probably a part of me that's like, okay, good,
• 52:58
  Speaker 4: I'm glad the show is, you know, half of what
• 53:00
  Speaker 4: it used to be when I was there. But there's
• 53:03
  Speaker 4: this other side of me that doesn't want it to
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: go away because it was something I built, and I
• 53:08
  Speaker 4: was part of the construction process of this thing, and
• 53:11
  Speaker 4: I built this franchise and was the face and voice
• 53:13
  Speaker 4: of it for two decades. And you know, that's almost
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: two generations of people growing up that have watched this show,
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: and I know a lot of people that are still
• 53:21
  Speaker 4: on that show. And when people talk about people being fired,
• 53:26
  Speaker 4: we hear this a lot in sports, of like this
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: guy should be fired, fire the coach, And I'm like, man,
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: as someone who's gone through and I wasn't fired, But
• 53:36
  Speaker 4: at the same time, someone who broke away from a
• 53:38
  Speaker 4: job that he'd had for a long time. I'm just
• 53:40
  Speaker 4: really reluctant to call for anybody's job, or to wish
• 53:42
  Speaker 4: anybody to lose a job, because it affects so many people,
• 53:47
  Speaker 4: you know, behind the scenes. Even if you wanted, like
• 53:49
  Speaker 4: the executive one EP or whoever you're really mad at them. Well,
• 53:54
  Speaker 4: the photographers, the camera guys. You guys have know you've
• 53:56
  Speaker 4: been on set, the audio craft services. The ripple effect
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: is huge and there's a lot of jobs on the line,
• 54:02
  Speaker 4: so I don't wish them ill will in that way.
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: I was going to ask you about being an empty
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: nester and how that's like I've been time and.
• 54:19
  Speaker 1: I want to hear about that too. And Lauren. We
• 54:21
  Speaker 1: want to hear about Lauren. Yeah.
• 54:23
  Speaker 4: I mean, first of all, the greatest thing that ever
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: happened to me in my life. She has just been
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: She's been a godsend, truly, and it is the most
• 54:34
  Speaker 4: wonderful thing. And I tell people that are looking for
• 54:38
  Speaker 4: love and you're out there and you're single, or you're like,
• 54:40
  Speaker 4: oh my god, I've been looking forever. Hey, if you
• 54:43
  Speaker 4: really break it down, and I had a wonderful marriage
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: that had that created two beautiful kids. But at the
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: same time, I don't know if I found the love
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: of my life until I was fifty years old, if
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: you think about it. So, you know, when I hear
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: people that are in their twenties, thirties and forties like,
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: you know, oh my god, gosh, oh my gosh, what
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: was me, and I'm like, hey, you know, I'm just
• 55:03
  Speaker 4: now really to this point in my life at fifty
• 55:05
  Speaker 4: two years old, where I think I got this thing
• 55:07
  Speaker 4: dialed in, so be patient.
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: Amen. I love that.
• 55:11
  Speaker 4: And I would just say as far as the empty
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: nesting goes, and I hope my kids aren't listening, but
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: oh my gosh, it's so wonderful what I said.
• 55:19
  Speaker 5: Jackie Feels said, Hey, I'm in terror. I don't know
• 55:24
  Speaker 5: what I myself. Amen, brother, Oh my god. And I'm sorry,
• 55:28
  Speaker 5: I'm getting a little too excited.
• 55:30
  Speaker 1: Heart. I love it. I love it as long as
• 55:32
  Speaker 1: my kids are happy.
• 55:33
  Speaker 3: You know, if one when one of your kids are
• 55:35
  Speaker 3: not happy, then you're not happy. And it's but knowing
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: that they're both good and enjoying their lives and then
• 55:41
  Speaker 3: getting to wake up and not have to raise children.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: I'm sorry, I'm not sorry.
• 55:47
  Speaker 1: It's a joy.
• 55:48
  Speaker 4: There's a there's an old saying, and I didn't invent this,
• 55:51
  Speaker 4: but it is very true that if you put in
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: the work early on with children, you do less work
• 55:57
  Speaker 4: later in life. I feel like I really in the
• 56:00
  Speaker 4: work early on, and so did my ex wife, who
• 56:02
  Speaker 4: by the way, is an amazing mother and still is
• 56:05
  Speaker 4: and her husband. She got remarried. He is wonderful to
• 56:08
  Speaker 4: my kids. Lauren has been an unbelievable addition to my kids' lives.
• 56:13
  Speaker 4: But putting in that work early on allows you to
• 56:15
  Speaker 4: enjoy this phase of life because they are now there's
• 56:18
  Speaker 4: still kids. My daughter's twenty, my son's twenty two. They're
• 56:22
  Speaker 4: wonderful human beings. And now I'm at the phase of
• 56:26
  Speaker 4: I don't have to parent as much as kind of
• 56:28
  Speaker 4: guide and give some advice. But it's at the phase
• 56:30
  Speaker 4: of we're heading into graduation and he's looking at apartments
• 56:34
  Speaker 4: and trying to get a job, and now it's giving
• 56:36
  Speaker 4: him adult advice on life.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: And that's exactly where you are to that next phase. Yeah.
• 56:41
  Speaker 4: We just spent spring break with my daughter and some
• 56:44
  Speaker 4: of her sorority sisters, and it's just fun. It's a
• 56:47
  Speaker 4: fun stage in life. And I loved every stage. When
• 56:50
  Speaker 4: I was coaching Little League and going to piano recitals.
• 56:53
  Speaker 4: I love that too. But I'm done with that.
• 56:55
  Speaker 1: You know, like that too.
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: That next the next time I do that, it'll be
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: with my grandkids. Well, and let's hope.
• 57:00
  Speaker 3: Let's not lead people on though, Chris, it's still ain't easy,
• 57:04
  Speaker 3: at least for me. Maybe I still feel like, what
• 57:06
  Speaker 3: do they say that a boy's brain isn't developed until
• 57:08
  Speaker 3: he's twenty six, a girl maybe twenty four, and I'd
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: say fifty two fifty for men, right, I mean there's
• 57:16
  Speaker 3: still it still comes with challenges, but there is oh,
• 57:19
  Speaker 3: of course, a freedom you know that I haven't had
• 57:21
  Speaker 3: since I gave birth at age thirty one.
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: Well, I think that's another identity thing. I think I
• 57:29
  Speaker 2: have to work on not making mother my whole identity either.
• 57:32
  Speaker 4: Well, and you do, and Lauren and I talk about that, Jackie,
• 57:34
  Speaker 4: and it's something I think it's one of the leading
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: causes of divorces in this country. And you have to
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: be very careful because oftentimes, and oftentimes it is the
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: woman who has stayed at home and has defined herself
• 57:48
  Speaker 4: of being an amazing mom, room mother, running the pta,
• 57:51
  Speaker 4: you know, you name it, just being involved. Well, when
• 57:54
  Speaker 4: that stops, and it doesn't stop in college, it usually
• 57:57
  Speaker 4: stops earlier. When they get to high school, they just
• 57:58
  Speaker 4: need you less, and then they are driving and they
• 58:01
  Speaker 4: need you even less than that, and it's hard to oh,
• 58:04
  Speaker 4: my gosh, after fifteen years, I have defined myself by
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: being this pillar and now, now what what do I do?
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: And that often causes a lot of strife and contention
• 58:17
  Speaker 4: in a relationship. You have to be very cognizant of
• 58:19
  Speaker 4: that of kind of re entry and helping each other
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: get back over that hurdle.
• 58:24
  Speaker 3: All of this goes back to what we're talking about
• 58:26
  Speaker 3: in the sense that when you lose the Housewives or
• 58:30
  Speaker 3: you know, certainly a way bigger scenario, you were the
• 58:33
  Speaker 3: host of the Bachelor for nineteen years and that ends,
• 58:35
  Speaker 3: you stop being a stay at home mom. All of
• 58:38
  Speaker 3: this is about I guess identity and so trying to
• 58:43
  Speaker 3: find out who you are before any of this ends,
• 58:46
  Speaker 3: and being enough before that you got it and after
• 58:50
  Speaker 3: it goes away.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: I think that's there's a check.
• 58:52
  Speaker 4: There's a little piece of lead. I'm looking at it
• 58:54
  Speaker 4: right now. It's on my desk behind me, and it
• 58:56
  Speaker 4: sits there and it has for many years. My mom
• 58:58
  Speaker 4: gave it to me. Is what would you attempt to
• 58:59
  Speaker 4: do if you knew you could not fail? And the
• 59:03
  Speaker 4: whole point of that is I've never been afraid to fail.
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: And I don't know if this comes from my sports background.
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: I played sports my whole life and in college, but
• 59:12
  Speaker 4: putting yourself out there on that tightrope and not being
• 59:14
  Speaker 4: afraid to fall. Some people will keep themselves from ever
• 59:18
  Speaker 4: doing anything in life because the what if, what if
• 59:21
  Speaker 4: this happens? What if I fail? What if I make
• 59:23
  Speaker 4: an ass of myself and I get embarrassed. I have
• 59:26
  Speaker 4: never lived like that. I'm a big optimist. And so
• 59:29
  Speaker 4: as soon as the backsher went away, Yes, I had
• 59:31
  Speaker 4: to lick my wounds and I got kicked in the gut,
• 59:33
  Speaker 4: and it got toxic, and it was crazy, and it
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: was very public, and I had to wait for the
• 59:38
  Speaker 4: turmoil to calm down. But almost immediately my theory and
• 59:43
  Speaker 4: my thought was what's next. This is just now an
• 59:46
  Speaker 4: opportunity to show everybody what's next. And by the way,
• 59:49
  Speaker 4: Merritt Street has the potential to be a disaster. It
• 59:54
  Speaker 4: could go up in flames. It is a startup. At
• 59:56
  Speaker 4: the end of the day, it is a wonderful startup
• 59:57
  Speaker 4: with a lot of money and some unbelievably big names.
• 1:00:00
  Speaker 4: Steve Harvey was just added to the roster. He announced
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 4: that Nancy Grace, doctor Phil myself, Lauren Zima. So there
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 4: is some serious ass talent coming to this network. So
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 4: it probably won't but it's a startup, and trying to
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 4: start up a network in this day and age is
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: very hard. So I'm putting myself out there in something
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 4: that I could fail at. You can't sit there and go,
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: oh my gosh, what if something I create isn't as
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 4: big as The Bachelor was? I can tell you it
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 4: won't be. I probably will never do another show that
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 4: has thirty three million viewers watching it, and by the way,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 4: either will The Bachelor ever again. I don't know if
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 4: anything will ever exist, but having a home run like
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 4: that is probably once in a lifetime. But it won't
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: stop me from trying to do that again. And I
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: think that is the difference of you got to just
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 4: you can't care so much about what everyone else is
• 1:00:54
  Speaker 4: going to say because I know people are going to
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: pan it. I know people will rip me on social media.
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 4: Who care? So I'm not doing it for you. Just
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 4: put yourself out there and get going again. I'm just
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 4: excited to do it.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: On speed Dial, I was going to be therapist Jackie.
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: I was going to say, Chris, you got to talk
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: to more housewives. Yeah, you've got it like this, you
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: are going to be the housewife whisper because I love
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: that thing on your deak me too.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: I love that me too.
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: But you know, just the idea that it's okay and
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 3: and something else will come, and it may not be people.
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: Not everybody is craving fame and fortune, right so but
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: for you know, those that are not that are just
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: worried about the kids leaving and a new identity that way,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 3: But how to feel good about that, How to not
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: define yourself by what's happened in your past.
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 1: So when can we watch you? When is it going
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: to be up and running?
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 4: April second, the network starts, So we're going up to
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 4: Dallas Fort Worth, which is where the studio is. It's
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 4: this amazing five acre facility. And by the way, if
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 4: you're in the DFW area, Doctor Phil his uh live audience,
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 4: he's taking his prime So he's taken his show and
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 4: he's going to take it to Primetime. So Doctor Phil
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 4: Primetime is kind of his old show but kind of
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 4: on steroids. And he built this beautiful studio for himself.
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 4: But within that there's a newsroom we're doing morning news,
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 4: evening news, and a newsroom like I've never seen before.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 4: There's three or four other sound stages. We're gonna shoot
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 4: movies and commercials there that can be rented out, and
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 4: then there's like three or four other just studios, like
• 1:02:23
  Speaker 4: one will be used for our talk show. And so
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 4: this facility is unlike anything I've ever seen. And they
• 1:02:28
  Speaker 4: have live studio audience. You can go check out Doctor Phil.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 4: So starting April second, he'll be doing his show live
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 4: at Primetime. I will be on some of those shows,
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 4: and then eventually we'll get the daily morning show going
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 4: and then also the talk show. But we got to
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 4: you know, we have to cast the show. We have
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 4: to staff those things up and get it going. That's
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 4: going to take a minute. And the great thing with
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: Doctor Phil is this network and this is where to
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 4: go back to our original conversation. It's so different than
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 4: streamers or network TV. It's like, Okay, we have to
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 4: get institutional money, we have to get advertising. We will
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 4: get advertising, but we can kind of get our own
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 4: like we can go out and just cut our own deals.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 4: It's really bizarre where he's kind of cut this thing
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 4: back to the original way TV is done. Of like
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 4: we'll go straight to a company and say, hey, you
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 4: want to be a part of our show. Come sponsor
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 4: our show. We are not owned by bigger conglomerates, so
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 4: we are not controlled by a ABC Disney. We're not
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 4: controlled and so number one, we don't have to speak
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 4: how they want us to speak. We can cover whatever
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 4: we want. Doctor Phil can do whatever he wants, so
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 4: we don't have to go into the principal's office later
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 4: and say, oh, you don't want me to cover this story.
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 4: It's too controversial. Oh, your advertisers may not like this,
• 1:03:43
  Speaker 4: So we won't mention this. And we're not going to preach.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 4: We're not going to tell you what we feel. We're
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 4: going to just tell you the facts. And Doctor Phil
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 4: is amazing at that.
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 3: I love that so much. Can you get us tickets
• 1:03:55
  Speaker 3: or no, you hook us up?
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 4: Absolutely? Oh we've been so, I've been to a dozen
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 4: shows and I've been on. I've already taped three or
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 4: four of his shows and then we go up and
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 4: depending on the subject matter, I'll get involved. And he's
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 4: doing some amazing shows and it really runs the gamut
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: and I've I've loved it. It's you know, he is
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 4: someone I've admired for so many years, and I didn't
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: realize obviously he was on Oprah before, but The Bachelor
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 4: and Doctor Phil started the same year really two thousand
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 4: and one, two thousand and two, and so to be
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 4: hosting with him, and we're on stage a lot together.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 4: It's like this awesome masterclass of like being on with
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 4: someone who is so damn good at what they do.
• 1:04:37
  Speaker 4: And you know, not to pat myself on the back,
• 1:04:39
  Speaker 4: but I'm really good at what I do, Creed, and
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 4: so we kind of we really compliment each other and
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 4: it's kind of that game recognizes game. So I really
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 4: have a blast.
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 2: Well I can see when you're talking about this you
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: are like just lit up, animated SI.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: So I'm so.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: I'm really happy for you and wishing you and Lauren
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 2: and doctor Phil all the success in the world.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: We can't wait to watch you.
• 1:05:02
  Speaker 3: Yes, you guys, our listeners, keep the faith. Man, look
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: at this and you know there's life after life, right,
• 1:05:10
  Speaker 3: there's just made out of it.
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: Yes everything. Yeah, oh cool.
• 1:05:14
  Speaker 4: Nothing's too big, nothing's too big that we can't overcome it.
• 1:05:17
  Speaker 1: Amazing man, you're my new therapist. Well, we loved having
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 1: you on.
• 1:05:20
  Speaker 4: Thank you, Thank you so grateful. Well, congratulations to the
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 4: two of you. Speaking of launching something that's been amazingly successful.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 4: Very proud of you. I'm happy to be even a
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 4: small part of this endeavor that you two have started,
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 4: and love you too and wish you the very best.
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, appreciate it. He was amazing, very inspiring.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Agreed. I really he could be my therapist.
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 3: I hope that listeners, you guys, can take away from
• 1:05:46
  Speaker 3: some of this because it's such a bigger there's such
• 1:05:49
  Speaker 3: a bigger picture, and it's not just about like what
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: do you do when you're not a housewife anymore? Or
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 3: what do you do when you're not like you lose
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: a job you've had your whole life.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 2: Even like a friend, like anything that ends, you have
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: to be able to separate who you truly are from
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 2: that one part.
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: Of your life.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really hard. He seems to have like mastered that.
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. He's just he's amazing, and you're amazing,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: and you're amazing. Oh, thank you.
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: Okay, guys, I love this episode, me too, And until
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: next time you to Jersey Jays leave a review. We
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: love you, guys, love us back, and we will see
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: you next time.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: Jay's out