Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / How To Keep Dancers Physically Safe in Competitive Training

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How To Keep Dancers Physically Safe in Competitive Training · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_02: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_02: Competitive dance skills have evolved over the years to require higher levels of flexibility, stamina, and strength.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: But the training has been completely kept up, with dancers sustaining more injuries than ever before.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_02: A dancer, educator, and owner of relative motion, Jamie Goodwin, and Maria Harold, better known as the Dance Scientist, to help us understand more about keeping dancers physically safe in the competitive world.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host, Alexis Mueller.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_02: Hey Courtney, I am super excited for this episode this week.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: I am so excited for this episode because I think this is such an important topic that needs to be discussed in the dance competition industry because today we're talking about keeping dance physically safe and just the damaging aspect that we might not even be realizing we're doing to our bodies within certain skills that we do, things that I know I have seen in competition that makes me super nervous for the longevity of the dancers.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's an important topic that we have to talk about.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And we have got some amazing guests that are joining us today.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um we are grateful for their time and expertise because they've got a lot of stuff to say.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_02: So but before we get into that, I think we have a few sponsors to chat about.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, we do.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: Leslie, lead us into our very first sponsor.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_02: Our first sponsor this week for this episode is Liberate Artists.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: Liberate Artists is a dance and performing arts organization that builds confidence and promotes social growth in young people.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_02: They create magical and momentous dance experiences and performances in brave, inclusive, non-competitive environments that remind you that you are enough exactly as you are in the skin and body that you're in.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_02: Join them this summer in 2023 at one of their events.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_02: Their event called Focus takes place in sunny Los Angeles and it's the ultimate commercial dance experience.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: Or you can head to the Big Apple to experience Phoenix Fire in the heart of New York City.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: At Liberate Artists Summer Experiences, you'll have the opportunity to perform on film in a professional music video and earn an IMDB credit.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_02: Or hit the stage in a Broadway-style production that's written specifically for dancers.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_02: Come be a part of the Liberation Nation training with their renowned teaching artists, make lasting friendships, and take your skills and love of dance to the next level.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: Check them out at LiberateArtist.com for more information.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_02: If you want to receive a$500 scholarship to a future Liberate Artist event, reach out to contact at LiberateArtists.com and mention Making the Impact to receive this special exclusive offer.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, everyone, we need to talk about something serious.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Dancer injury rates are staggering.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: Dancers have twice the injury rate from the knee down as football players, y'all.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: That is wild to think.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: If only there was a tool for dancers to prevent injuries and help you continue to do what you love with less pain.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, since we're talking all about how to keep dancers safe today on the podcast, I'm here to tell you that there is a product to help.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Apollo performance is made by dancers, backed by science, and recently got a deal on Shark Tank.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: From wearing them for class, recovery, or running to the grocery store, you are going to fall in love with the comfort and life-changing support that the Apollo Shox compression socks provide.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: There really is no substitute for Apollo Shocks.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: They have thousands of testimonials on how to help dancers to dance longer and stronger.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: Plus, satisfaction is guaranteed.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: I love taking class in my Apollo Shocks and also love wearing them on the plane while I travel each weekend.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they have an exclusive offer for our listeners of Making the Impact to receive 10% off when you enter the code Impact10INALCAPS in the promo box at checkout.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's Impact 10 in the promo box.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: Visit their website now to order a pair of your brand new compression dance socks at apolloperformance.com.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: And finally, we would love to share a review from Apple Podcasts.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: If you haven't given us a review yet and you love what you're hearing, we would really appreciate your support.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_02: The reviews and ratings that we get on Apple Podcasts help push us up in the algorithm and allow more people to just be aware of making the impact.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: So we would love to say thank you to a slightly anxious bean.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: I love that screen name.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: They say, I'm a competition dancer and this is a great listen for competing people.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's got an engaging format and cool tips.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: I really appreciate the episode on musical theater and the one about bringing a solo to the next level.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like this will really help me with my first year of solos.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yay.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's exciting.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: We hope it helps you, a slightly anxious bean.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: Don't be slightly anxious.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna be fine.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_02: Subscribe now to Making the Impact on your favorite podcast platform.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: And if you love it, we do show your support by buying us a coffee on Kofi.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I forgot about Kofi.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_02: You can always buy us a coffee too, guys.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_02: Or leave us a five-star review on Apple Podcasts.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_01: All right, y'all.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: It is time to jump in to this week's topic all about keeping dance physically safe.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure you've all been there where you've been sitting in the audience watching a dance routine, and next thing you know, you hear knees slamming onto the stage and you are concerned and terrified for the dancer's safety.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, guess what?
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: Me as a judge, I am too.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: I want you dancers to be safe, please.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to think about our the longevity of our dance career and these bodies.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: We only get one body in our lifetime, y'all.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we gotta take care of it.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: So we're gonna talk all about that today with two brand new guests who are joining us on the podcast.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: The very first guest I'm excited to welcome is a very dear friend of mine who I haven't had the chance to see in a few years, and I need to change that really soon.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: She is a spectacular professional dancer, educator, choreographer, and the owner, the co-owner of Relative Motion.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to welcome Jamie Goodwin to the podcast.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Jamie.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Courtney.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so happy to be here and Leslie, thank you for having me, guys.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so proud to see what you've created with Relative Motion, and I can't wait for you to tell the world a little bit more about that if they aren't aware of your great organization.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of people probably know of your company based off of these awesome leggings that you have created.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Can you just like tell us about it?
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_03: But don't really know what it's about.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, a lot of people see it, but don't really know what it's about.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: Well, basically, through a lot of the injuries I've had and the kind of training I like to do with my dancers to prevent that, kind of noticed that it was really hard to connect the mind body for dancers, and so many dancers are visual learners.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I started thinking, well, it started with putting post-it notes and chalk and all these things on my dancers' bodies, trying to get them to see their position in the mirror to get them to focus on and spot.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so I would use those cues to adjust dancers.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then my sister and I were talking one day because she's also a dance educator and a dancer, and we both were having the same problem.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then we just thought, wouldn't it be amazing if we could put something on a dancer that would just help them understand their body that they could see in the mirror clearly where their muscles are, where they were sitting, where they need to sit.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: And it would help us cue dancers as teachers as well and make our jobs a little easier, especially now with physical touch being so like in and out.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Some people approve of it, some people don't.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_03: Our goal is really to make cueing and um taking notes easier for dancers and teachers.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's so smart.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm hoping it the dancers that are wearing them are seeing and feeling the difference in their training while they wear these.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And they can self-correct themselves a little bit more, and you can be like, all right, make sure the purple panel is facing forward for this skill.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's it's genius.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: That's exactly it.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and it's cool to see the light bulbs go off because so many times the dancers are trying so hard to understand, and we as teachers are stuck trying so hard to explain it in different ways for them to understand.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: And then finally, when the light bulb goes off so easily because they just see the colors stack or they see the lines on the sides of their bodies line up, it's just really cool to watch those moments for the dancers come together.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for uh everything that you're doing to continue to further educate our dance industry and keep a dancer safe out there.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I knew I needed you for this episode.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: If you wouldn't mind sharing with the world a little bit more about you, where you grew up, what your training was like, and any career credits you'd like to share.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I've grown up dancing.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: I loved it.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: I was inspired by my big sister, so it's really cool that we have this company now together because she's six years older than me and we I just always looked up to her.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why I started dancing.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: And I was trained in Virginia Beach by Denise Wall.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: She's an amazing educator.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of you guys will know her from the Nouveau Circuit.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: And she's just a phenomenal technician.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: She knows how to get people to understand their bodies and to use their bodies to their fullest.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I was surprised that even with the amazing training I had three months into my career in LA, I tore my ACL or my meniscus.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I realized that even though it was kind of a freak accident the first time because of the sticky floor and all that, there were very many things I wasn't doing to prepare my body for injury.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so I learned a lot through my injuries, and I ended up having four reconstructive knee surgeries through my 16 years in my career so far, kind of spread out along the way.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's been a constant progression of me getting re-injured, learning new things, figuring out what I did wrong, learning how to not do it again.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: And really, honestly, it's been a mental struggle and a mental healing process as well.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_03: Learning that dance is so much mental, and that um if I could kind of tap into that even more and be more aware of my body and be more conscious of what was right for my body and not right for my body and wins, then I could really prevent a lot of heartache and dance longer and be more healthy.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: So it became one of my big missions through my classroom and through my dancing to share my journey with other dancers and what I've learned so that they could maybe not experience what I didn't.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Makes sense.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, once we have that, like those few injuries, it's it just changes our whole perspective on how we approach dance and how we approach teaching and how we want to be able to give back and and prevent that for anyone else that's following in our path.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm sure we all have stories that we can rel relate to uh here on the podcast about that.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I had no idea you had four surgeries.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: That is wild.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Some of them were just um circumstantial, and some of them were purely choices that I had made.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure a lot of you may remember Jamie from So You Think You Can Dance, which I was such a big fan of you on the show back in the day.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: So amazing back in the day.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: And then I get to got to work with you uh on a dance convention together, and it was just so great to finally get to connect and get to know you more as a friend.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I've loved following your whole career and your dance journey.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: So congrats on everything that you've achieved, and we're really excited to have you here on the podcast today.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've been really blessed in my my journey, and I just I'm very grateful for this art.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yay.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: All right, and our next special guest is a brand new guest who is joining us on the podcast, and they are going to be bringing that scientific perspective of how we can keep our dance bodies a little bit safer.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: You may know them as The Dance Scientist on Instagram, and they are spreading so much knowledge and information on that platform.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that I encourage everyone to go check it out.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: They also just launched a brand new podcast, which we love.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to welcome Maria Harra Lambus to the podcast.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Maria.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for having me here today.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited for this conversation.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: I I'm really excited to have you and get to know you more and to hear your perspective on this topic.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: So if you wouldn't mind telling the dance world a little bit more about you.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up as a very curious dancer.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: I was always asking my teachers questions, but the questions weren't necessarily about technique.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: They were more about like the biomechanics of the body, right?
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Like I would say, you know, why does my one arm feel like this when I'm holding my arms in this position, you know?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, my teachers couldn't really answer the questions at the time because dance science wasn't really a thing, but I just always was curious.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the biggest memory that I have.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: And so those questions kind of led me on the path of pursuing dance in undergrad.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I have my bachelor's in dance, I have my master's in kinesiology, and then I'm a PhD student in health and human performance.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, all about the dance science world.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's just trying to bring positive change to the dance world and just improve the way that dancers are treated, trained, and the way that they perform.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I love that.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: And your Instagram is just, like I said, it's just really informative.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: You're always posting some really great information that is valuable for not just teachers and studio owners, but also for the dancers themselves, where it may be that light bulb of, oh, I didn't even know that, or oh, this is what this is how this connects.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_01: And wow, I had no idea.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: So what what made you, you know, want to immediately go to social media to spread this knowledge?
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: Was it just like the rise of TikTok and and Instagram, or was it like you're just trying to further educate people and get that info out there?
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: I see it as like a big connector.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: I really see a lot of opportunity in social media.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think all social media is bad.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think we have to be aware of who we're following, but I really think that there's a lot of positive accounts that can be followed.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So for dance science, I just see social media as a way of putting the information out there easier, faster, and you know, easier for people to understand.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Not everybody's gonna read a 20, 20 page article, right?
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that's such a great point.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that a lot of the things that you're sharing and in the science behind the dance isn't things that are being taught in the studio, which I'm sure we're going to get to in our discussion, but you know, at least having that knowledge as a reference point or oh, I can pin this, I can save this, I can go back to this, even for dance educators who are continuing to learn, because not everybody went to college to study kinesiology and different types of, you know, learning the mechanics of your body.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, that using that platform and and coming from people like you who have studied and are educated in it, it's really helpful for our dance world.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for sharing all of that.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: All right, let's go.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's oh, wait, and hold on.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I want you to blast your uh podcast with the world.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Can you please tell everyone how to listen to your brand new podcast?
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it's called the Dance Science Podcast, and you can find it on Spotify, Google Podcasts, and Apple Podcasts.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: All right, everybody, make sure you go listen.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: We will link that in our show notes as well as our mailing list.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And let's jump into this chat.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yay! Well, thank you, ladies, again, for being with us today.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: We have really wanted to do an episode on this topic.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: And as usual, listeners, we are always just on the lookout for the perfect guests.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: So don't worry if there's a topic you've been asking us to do, it's on our list.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_02: We just have to find the right guests.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we found the right guests this time.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_02: So we're really excited to chat today.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_02: I guess a really simple question, and Jamie, you kind of already uh answered it for us, but I'd love to hear from both of you why you're passionate about safety for dancers and just from your perspective.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I feel like that was I definitely it's 100% for me, my experience led me to feeling like, God, I was so confident in my technique.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: I was so confident.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_03: I knew I had good training.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I trust Denise so much with my life.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_03: She was like a mother to me.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: So to end up in those positions was so shocking to me.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_03: I've I honestly felt really confused by it all because I hadn't had one injury my entire young, you know, training life.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_03: And then as soon as I got to LA, I hurt myself and was like a fish out of water.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point in time, there wasn't anyone speaking of injuries.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: Injuries in the dance world have just now become something we talk about, but for a long time they were ashamed.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_03: And back in 10 years ago, I felt very ashamed of my injury.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I went home to Virginia, I hid, I recovered, I barely told anybody that I was hurt.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_03: I looked for blogs, I looked for people talking about something, some success story that they've had of coming back from an injury, and it was really hard to find.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt like I was kind of walking on a path alone, and I didn't know what to do.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: I was just trusting whoever was willing to help me at the time.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then as you know, my injuries and recoveries continued to go, and I continued to accept that that was a part of my journey.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: I just started becoming braver too.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I had a blog for a while, and I started to incorporate it in my classes, and I got certified in different injury prevention techniques and educating myself beyond just my experience.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I still do.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really grateful for people like you, Maria, because I follow those kinds of accounts that are like, please give me as much knowledge as I possibly can to pass on to anyone.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, that was just my journey, just was fully because I was like, God, if I if this happened to me with such great technique from this person who I could really trust, and there's so many dance studios and dancers out there that don't have that, then it's gonna happen to hundreds, maybe thousands of dancers that don't have the strength to be doing the things that we're being asked to do.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that was my journey.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: For me, dance science really isn't an option.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_00: And there's there's no excuses anymore because the information is out there and it's more accessible these days.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, really to me, there's no excuse.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And at the end of the day, we're talking about humans as well.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they're not just dancers in a dance class, you know, being taught as robots, right?
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: They're actually humans at the end of the day.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: So this is long term.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_00: This isn't just them getting a better pirouette in six weeks.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is, you know, 40 years down the line.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: What are their hips gonna look like?
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_02: And I really think that that's such a key thing to think about, especially for people, you know, I'm not a parent and I'm not a person who didn't do an activity, you know.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: But I think there's a lot of parents out there and just people out there who maybe didn't do soccer, didn't do dance, didn't do baseball, didn't do karate, like they their activity was maybe more sedentary just because that was what their life was.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: But so they may not necessarily have that forward thinking mentality of what is my kid's hip gonna do in 40 years after she's been doing her oversplits, you know, pushing and pushing and pushing for years.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because they they haven't thought about that for themselves, maybe.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that forward thinking mentality of like, yeah, this isn't just today, tomorrow, high school, college.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: This is when you're 50, 60 years old.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_02: And like, are you gonna have had two hip replacements by then?
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: I really hope not.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_02: But like I'm wondering too, just from my experience in the industry, I don't remember people getting hurt at at the rate kids get hurt these days.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like when you were growing up in any sport.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you were growing up?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: Like I don't remember, you know, I maybe sprained my ankle once or twice.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because I did cheerleading too.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: But like you've got kids out and braces and you see them at conventions and they're wearing a brace or they're wearing a knee brace or and they're still somehow there doing things in your life.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: How is that allowed?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, do we are we is everybody else noticing that like you just see injured kids more at dance competitions and stuff?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: But it just feels like the athleticism of dance continues to raise the bar.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: The bar continues to raise, but the training continues to stay very traditional.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I think it comes from a good place.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_03: I think a lot of teachers feel like they're doing their best for their kid, but with with life in general, with anything we experience, we we use the same system until it's until we evolve and the system doesn't work.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then we have to kind of evolve with it.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's kind of where we're at now is we're seeing this elevation in dance and athleticism in dance that we haven't seen before.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_03: And the training now we have to really keep up with the training to make sure the dancers are safe when they're doing these things.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_03: And to be honest with you, we also have to be aware of when is it appropriate to ask our dancers to do these things.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: The things we see dancers on World of Dance doing are not the things we need to be asking our dancers to be doing in the studio.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of these dancers are just at the foundational point.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: They need the foundation, they need to keep strengthening, they need to cross-train to make sure their bodies are safe enough to endeavor these high-impact activities that we're asking from them.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that's a big portion of why dance is becoming more and more a source of injury because we're also on concrete floors at convention, and we're now asking them to do these acrobatic tricks that are only only 10 out of the hundreds or thousands of kids there can actually do safely or at all.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then we're asking them to do it on concrete, and they've been dancing all day.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like all of the factors come together for a perfect remedy to hurt yourself.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: We're definitely in an era of heightened movement demands, right?
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: But with that, we should be supporting our dancers as educators too.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how are we supporting them as human beings in this new era of heightened movement demands, right?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Are we teaching the same way that we taught 40 years ago?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's what we were taught.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I also come to the city.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I like that term high-end movement demands because that is exactly what it is.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_02: Gone are the days where somebody's impressed by a triple pirouette.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_02: Gone are the days when a torjet is impressive.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's just not the case anymore.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: And they really like, I'm just thinking about like high-end shoes or high-end bags.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like, yeah, everybody's trying to do these high-end moves and they've got like target budget.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you just can't.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the same target training, I guess.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: Target training.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_02: I love Maria.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_02: Can you keep talking a little bit more about the Differences from how we were trained.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're all of a certain age.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: So like our training was way different than what it looks like today.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: It probably worked in that time that you grew up in.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: So there's really there's nothing wrong with where the tradition came from, but it's like at what point is it gonna evolve?
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're so resistant to change.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when I was when I got my master's in kinesiology, it's it's a very different world.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: The way that athletes are trained, it's it's very different.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: They're they think on fast on their feet, they're easy, quick to change, they're not resistant to change.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And the dance world is just very different in comparison.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying they have to be the exact same because obviously they're different for many reasons, but there's a lot that we can learn from how athletes are trained and supported.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's, I mean, you really see that with the way that social media has developed in our world of, you know, you see a lot of the people doing the cool tricks and like that's what you see.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: But you like there's so many.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: When we were looking for you guys as guests, there are so many people out there who have backgrounds like yours, Maria, who have had experiences like yours, Jamie, who are working to showcase all these new injury prevention methods.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, it's all out there.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: There are people doing it and doing it well and doing it right.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, is it is it to the masses yet?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Is it commonplace at, you know, Joe Schmo's dance studio?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I was just gonna throw out that, you know, the traditionalism, like there's nothing wrong with that.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: And I think there is something beautiful to kind of opening the door but not making people feel ashamed for what they've already done.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think that's kind of what comes with not wanting change is the fear of feeling like they did it wrong.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it's okay to think, hey, maybe what I was doing isn't all that they need, you know.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_03: And it's okay to also think of injury prevention as a supplement to what you're already doing, as long as what you're already doing isn't harmful.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, but it's okay to introduce injury prevention uh mechanisms in the way that we can add it to what we're already doing, you know, maybe look at what we're already doing, making sure that that's not harmful, and then supplementing with things like cross-training, like other forms of approaching our technique.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that it's gonna be a process just like it has with even accepting that injury is a part of dance.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's gonna be a process of changing the way we train dancers, but helping people to feel comfortable and not ashamed and not fearful of change, I think is where we're at right now.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: I get pushback in my comments sometimes.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, some people comment are like, oh, you know, dance science is trying to really like turn dance into like a science too much, and you're taking away the artistic side.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I have to make clear to people is the entire point of dance science is to try to find a blend between the two.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you don't have to completely give up one or the other because we don't want to give up one or the other.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: We need both.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:58
  unknown: Right.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: They go hand in hand.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I think one of the beautiful things about dancers is that we're artists and athletes.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: And there's no one else like us.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_03: We are artists and athletes, and it's beautiful.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that's where the blend is like that's the perfect way to say it.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: And when you I feel like when you get the pushback, because I've looked at some of your the comments on, you know, some of your I love, I love the way on your Instagram a lot of the times you start out your your um post with like M clears throat.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just it's just, it's a really relatable sort of way to bring in here's this information that you might not know.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: It might not, it might feel a little triggering to you, you know, but some of some of your diehard, you know, old school tr sort of traditional dance minds are gonna push back against, well, maybe we don't need to put our turnout at this particular angle because it's bad for X, Y, and Z.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: But well, that's the way it is.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's the way it's always been.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it doesn't have to be.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I think another thing to like Jamie was saying with the, you know, shame and and sort of being feeling ashamed that you've been injured, or maybe you thought you were teaching correctly, but you weren't.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_02: We don't know what we don't know.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and like you just you don't know until you know.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_02: But then, like Maria said, once you know, you can never unknow.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: The information is there, you have been schooled, you have been given the information, and now it's everybody's responsibility to move forward with that.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: And the result will either be positive because you've moved forward, or if you didn't, you may not have a positive result.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm sitting here just taking this all in.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there I have so many thoughts about just safety in general, but I feel like, and I don't know if you guys feel the same, but I feel like something that I've noticed as a judge when it comes to the training, and like regardless of if people have shifted the training, I mean, we've definitely seen a shift in training as far as like oversplits are a thing, and like I never have done one in my entire life, but that's the thing now, you know, like over and like the amount of acro that is taking place, which is like good and bad.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: But I feel like like cohesively across the board in all genres, I feel like there's a lack of emphasis on proper alignment.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that is a a a huge part of the safety aspect as to like why dancers are potentially getting injured quicker, because there's just there's that's just not focused on.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we just care about the trick, we just care about the skill, but we don't care about the ins and the outs and the safe landing or the proper way to prep.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And when I really zone in and look, it's like, well, your alignment's completely off.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like your hips are twisted, you're you're arching, you're swaying your back, your pelvis is tilted, like there's no proper engagement of our body.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: And like to me, it just feels like that we are kind of progressing ahead too quickly with some dancers.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: And let and like I feel like that that's something I've noticed like across the board uh in training.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because we're talking about training, but as a judge, when I watch competitions, I can tell your training based on what you're giv showing me on stage.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: I can get an idea of what your training is is at, the foundational skills you have versus which ones you're missing and skipped over.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if anybody else feels that way too when it comes to like alignment.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, that's what relative motion is all about is tracking our alignment because you know, I mean, it's it's the foundation of yoga.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_03: When you stack the alignment in the right place and the body's functioning the way it's meant to function, it's gonna have, you know, more of a an impact on your muscles are gonna fire up the way they are supposed to fire up.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_03: Am I kind of on track, Maria?
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: I just don't want to speak off key, but that's what I've always been teaching my dancers.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like my technique classes, if you don't really want it, you'll be bored to death because I because I'm literally just like, how are we starting?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_03: Where is our alignment?
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_03: We don't even get into a passe for your pirouette until you're in alignment.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_03: Because if your foundation isn't there, you it doesn't matter if you can do six pirouettes.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: At some point, if you're doing them wrong, you're gonna plateau or you're gonna create so much muscle imbalance that you're gonna end up hurting yourself, you know?
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just so that's been like our whole foundation with relative motion is the foundation, the transitions, the ins and outs, the minor things that we don't think of as dancers that are actually the big things that keep us safe.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: And alignment is one of the biggest things.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you're right, it's like you watch these dancers on stage with these alignments that are so far off, and they're trying to do these advanced skills, and I'm scared, I'm nervous for them the whole time.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: Me too.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's also a good time to introduce cross-training too, and obviously to support them in this new era of heightened movement demands, but then people think that that means adding more dance classes, but that's not cross-training.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: They need supplemental.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you're vital.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of yeah, a lot of questions I get at conventions, even when I'm speaking.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'll have them in our pirouette classes, we're doing squats, parallel, you know, inverted, turned out before we ever even go into a pose just to turn on the glutes.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_03: And as soon as I get a dancer to do a squat in a turned-in position, they are freaking out.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, it's just like we're talking muscle balance now.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: We're working in a different position so that we can balance our bodies, but it's so far off that it scares them.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I get a lot of questions after class about what is cross-training?
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_03: What are we doing?
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_03: Can you explain to me what cross-training is or how I can cross-train outside of this?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so you're right, it's just almost like they don't really understand what it is or what they should be doing.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it comes from us as educators, you know, teaching them that there's this new wave of training, basically.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a lot of good Instagrams to follow as well.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of like professional dancers that you'll see.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: They'll be in the weight room, they'll be on the Pilates machine, and it's just it's good.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's good to be showing our dancers like, hey, look at this dancer, you know, he's weightlifting today.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_05: Mm-hmm.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, especially Yeah, and weights are something that really scare dancers.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: We've been taught as dancers that weights are gonna make us not look like a dancer, that we're gonna bulk up and look like bodybuilders, or it's just a false sense of what that is used for.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I had that mindset when I was first going into recovery when my physical therapist was giving me all these weighted activities.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_03: I was so scared it was gonna change the way my body looked.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that's another big thing that now I have completely shifted the way I teach dancers.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care or emphasize how at all their muscles are forming or look, but I will under help them to understand the reason why we use weights is because we are actually helping them to maximize the activation of their muscles.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: It has nothing to do with bulking their muscles.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: And with the amount of weights we're using, five, ten, fifteen pounds, they're never gonna get bulky using these low weights and just adding them to their training.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think that there needs to be like that reminder and emphasis on the strength aspect of the flexibility training that a lot of people are prioritizing now because everyone sees the like hypermobile bendy bodies on Instagram and social media and wow, their legs behind their head.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm not gonna lie, I am beyond nervous for these dancers that are that hypermobile.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there is a difference with being born with like a hypermobile body that's just like it's that's just what it is.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we all know like those dancers with the perfect feed and the people with the perfect whacked-out hips that just like barely have to try, and we were always jealous of them at the studio.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: But now we see it across the whole studio.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like every dancer is that hypermobile, and it's because they're being trained that way, because the priority is flexibility.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know where this started, I don't know why this started.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's like the oversplits thing, even something as simple as a regular like soda shaw or grande jete on stage.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone's just going into their hypermobility and whacking those legs up with zero core activation, getting tilting the pelvis forward sway back everywhere.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, who is approving this?
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we need to go back to basics because that is not how you do a jete.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: That is absolutely the opposite of what I'm looking for when it comes to clean alignment in the air.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you in a perfect split?
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Are you activating the correct muscles?
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's like that emphasis of flexibility and then the lack of strength to back it up.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because you once they they get super hyper bendy and like they focus on that when they're young, then they go through puberty and they grow and they sprout.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then they get they gain a little bit more strength, but it still makes me nervous because they want to go to those old ways of look how bendy I used to be, and they don't have that control.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: Even like things like a botma.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many dancers these days that do a bot, I say do a botma forward, it goes to the side.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, It's just up there somewhere.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: It like hits their ear.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like they don't know where it's like.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: It brushes to the front, but then ends next to their ear.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, what position are you in?
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you even know that your hip is not maintaining the proper alignment to execute a front bot ma?
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's things like that that concern me for the safety because if they're not even aware and teachers aren't correcting it, like why has that been slipped through the cracks by the teacher?
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like when I say things on stage at competition as a judge, I'm like just questioning the teacher the whole time.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so have you not told them that their alignment's completely off?
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: Have you not told them that the position's completely wrong?
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Or are you praising it and saying that's correct?
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, because like there's like an issue in in some training, I think, at at times, just based on like how we've evolved the training and the needs of the training, but like things are slipping through the cracks that it makes me nervous for longevity.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's hard to tell like where the source is sometimes because I think a lot of teachers are begging their students not to do those things and they're seeing it online.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of teachers want better for their kids, but it's just not there's also some disconnect that's happened, and I hate to bring up pandemic because I hate talking about it, but since the Zoom pandemic situation, there has been a real big disconnect in in teaching.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it has been a little bit hard to get through to some kids because a lot of times I'll be in class and I'm literally giving notes and it's as if I'm not even in the room with them.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so I do wonder sometimes, we know how much are is it the teachers and how much of it is it is it just us not being able to connect in that way?
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_03: For some reason there's a disconnect.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, I can imagine.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think probably one of the things affecting it is the quantity over the quality, right?
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's all focused on the product.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: As long as they get the end product, they're fine, right?
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: They get the gold star, but nobody really looks at how it was accomplished.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: We have to really focus on the process.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we talked about this on a recent episode, and we need, I think we need to do a full product versus process episode because it really ties into so many different ways of looking at dance.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: So let's chat about a little bit.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we've talked about like things that we've seen in training or things that we want to correct in some training, but what are some of the I I named a few already, but what are some more skills that you you've seen recently from competitive dancers specifically that make you nervous as far as the safety aspect of that skill itself?
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: Are there any that come to mind off the top of your head?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: For me, it boils down to a lot of the extreme flexibility, like we were mentioning before, you know, like the alignment things that we're talking about too, considerations like that.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: But not all extreme movements are necessarily bad because maybe some of them were supported in a healthy way when they were being taught that skill, right?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't necessarily think, you know, nobody should be doing, you know, an an extreme stretch, for example, right?
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: It just kind of depends on the nature of the dancer, it depends on the nature of the teacher, it just depends on the whole sphere, the whole situation for me.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like right off the bat, thinking of like, you know, flexible skills, like do you feel that scorpions, that's like immediately where my brain goes.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that like a perfectly 180 pulled up scorpion with a straight supporting leg and a straight working leg is safe?
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a safe skill?
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_00: A very small amount of the dance population is gonna be able to do a scorpion.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Very, very small, very small.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: But even for the dancers that like can, is it is it gonna be damaging down the road for them?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like if they repetitively do this and they're compressing their spine in that way, like and pulling their hip like that way, is that something I know it makes me nervous even thinking about it, but like could that cause damage down the road?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_00: But here's my second question Are they getting cross-training to support the extreme flexibility?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say no, because probably not.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: If we're saying no, then there's probably gonna be long term for sure.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then and then like And then I'm just thinking about how many, how many, and I'm gonna use this word because it's true, bad scorpions we see or bad attempts at scorpions.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, even even if it was really, really good and perfect and well done, and they're not cross-training, it's still it's still not safe and healthy.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like that's the one percent of the population who has all of the factors working for them and it's still not safe.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then you have Sally over here who's like not cross-training, is just stretching on her own, is is just yanking that leg up because she really wants that spot, you know, in the front to do the scorpion.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I just, uh, but then I go back to, but for what?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm like, uh, this is competitive dance.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like, for what to get a you think that your scorpion's going to get you first place.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna let you know that most first place dancers did not do a scorpion in their dance.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: If you really look at it, they're probably have amazing movement quality with beautiful training and technique and seamless transitions and and musicality.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's so many other factors than the scorpion.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then when we're sitting here talking about that, this could cause damage, this could cause damage long term.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_01: As a parent, it should be that 5,000 light bulbs going off saying, Oh, maybe I we shouldn't really be putting the emphasis on this getting her scorpion this season, not that deep, you know.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: But also think of their like brain development at that age.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, think about their thinking capacity.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, they basically think in a box.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: They're full day today.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: They're like, no, I'm gonna get that skill, and I don't care.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't even think they're not of anything outside the box.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, right.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that's normal.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's normal for a seven, eight-year-old, whatever you're learning your scorpion for the first time.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't wait to learn my axle when I was seven.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_01: I was like doing axles 24-7, landing horribly, like, you know.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: Can we can we please put the video of your axles in your room, the 10 that you do in the room when you're like nine?
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I used to like pop, I guess I don't know.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like my dad like was obsessed with this camcorder back in the 90s, and he would like film me in my room improving.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I like had Hansen playing, and I was doing like improv and I just did axles in like five axles in a row, and they were tragic and horrible.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: But that every kid does it, you know.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: Every kid's practicing their scorpion in their room, every kid's, you know, practicing their tilt perfectly.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we all do it, and and that's exactly like a perfect example of just where their brain development is at that time.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_01: They like get fixated on I want to get this and I don't care.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: And mom should be kind of chiming in, like, oh, I'm nervous for you when you're my age, little dancer.
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• 41:45
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and I think as teachers, all we can really do is know that that's also happening and then do our best in the classroom to prepare their bodies for what we know is already happening.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like well, even with my little ones, I'm already doing cross-training with them in their jazz classes and their in their contemporary classes.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_03: And every class I teach, my conditioning or my warm-up is a variation of a cross-training exercise because I assume they're probably not getting it other places.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: And um, it to me is the best way to prepare our body to be in those abstract positions when we're in contemporary, getting them in it while we're warming up, while we're conditioning, getting them in these parallel, uncomfortable positions, working with weighted jumps and landings with them so that when we are dancing, things feel lighter, things feel like their bodies are more prepared for them.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_03: I kind of try to trick my dancers into cross-training and trick them into doing preparation for their bodies in a fun way.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I even make like little injury prevention games for my little ones, you know, try to make it fun for them.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: And so they think that they're just playing a game, but they're really doing squats.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and so but I think it's not you're never really too young to start implementing it into their training, even if they don't know what it is they're doing yet.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And just evolving as an educator to be able to develop a course or a program or curriculum for that age that's gonna be fun, that's not gonna be boring, that's gonna keep them interested.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's our job as educators, like we talked about at the beginning of the discussion.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like the training evolves, and it might not be what you learned 40 years ago at this point.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, okay, we're now in 2023.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: Are there's different demands, there's different expectations for what the kids need and want to achieve, like scorpions.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: And if you want to get your scorpion, well, guess what?
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: We need to make sure you're cross-training to complement that and make sure that we're keeping it safe.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_03: One of my when I was coming back from my last knee surgery, I there was a time period where I was feeling very, very discouraged.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I've always been the kind of dancer that, like, if I had a goal, I was like, nothing was gonna stop me.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: I was just very like I would just bulldoze through things to make my goal happen.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: And then I started to feel very discouraged the last time around because I wasn't trusting my body as much anymore.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_03: Because of course, it's the fourth time I'm injured.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: And but anyway, through like that process the last time around, I remember really thinking, hey, you know what, this is a lot of my mindset to and how I approach dance.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that when we think injury prevention and how we're teaching children to protect their bodies or dance physically, you know, you've been talking about the humanity of it the whole time, Maria.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_03: And it really does come down to that.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, sometimes I'll just lay my dancers down and talk to them about mindfulness and work on them them breathing into different parts of their body and moving their body in different, like very basic ways for them to become aware of their body.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_03: Because, like you said, they're not aware of their tool, Courtney.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: Like they can't know where it is, they can't use it properly.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think that like that was one thing that really changed my approaches of dancing and made me realize that, like, wow, if I value my body more, and I realize that this is my only tool, then I think that the emphasis on wanting to cross-train and wanting to do the little tedious things is a little bit more important.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_03: And right now I don't necessarily feel like that is where the mindset is for the dancers, it is in the end product, and like what we see on TikTok, what we see on social media, or what we see the elite of the elite dancers doing at competition.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: And there is that pocket of dancers that can do these amazing things, and you know, and it's natural for them and they're prepared for it for it physically, but we can't allow the little ones, like the eight, nine, ten-year-olds, to think that that's the end game.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: There has to be some approach that we take as teachers to help them see like the humanity of it as well and help them understand the importance of it.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: I think sometimes I scare my kids in class because I'll be like, hey, you guys, you know that little thing you're doing with your knee?
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you're gonna jump up, do a big jump, and then it's gonna get crack, and I'll like do like a major fall on the floor and just like get them all laughing, but I'll look at them and be like, I really don't want you to get hurt.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, this is how I want you to stack your knee.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: And all of them kind of like get a little bit of like, oh, I don't want that, you know?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: But they only see the glory of it, they only see the TV, the social media, how beautiful it is.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, guys, this is the reality, and sometimes they just need that.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_03: They are young, but they're not too young to understand the reality of what they're doing.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: If they're old enough, they're if they're eight, nine, ten in a dance class and we're old, if they're old enough to be doing scorpions, they're also old enough to be told this is dangerous.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, right.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's true.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: And here are the ways to make it safer.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I think, you know, I think there's probably somebody out there who's thinking, well, like, well, safety is not fun.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's not impressive.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, there is, there's inherent risk to dance.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, I'm not I don't think we're saying like you have to be boring to be a dancer and dance safely.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's not it.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, you know, you can take the risks, but take them safely and have your, you know, have the training to back it up.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_02: Like, don't you I mean, you wouldn't, I don't know, I don't some people might take a risk without having like a backup plan.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_02: But I just think that, you know, in order to be a safe dancer, you know, you ha you there's no way to do it unless you take the time to back it up with the training.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise it's you're you're you're taking a risk and it's you know, it's gonna be hit or miss whether you stack that knee the wrong way and you fall or you don't.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_03: Even like Yeah, do you always want to be gambling?
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right, you know, or do you want to be able to trust your body?
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a training.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_03: It it is exactly, yeah.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that the the rise of acro too is the another not issue in our industry, but just you know, an evolution of the training aspect where I think a lot of cause I I again I'm thinking back to my childhood, we had a tumbling class.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: I I we didn't really do it wasn't like a requirement and wasn't even that really focused on at all.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like no one could do aerials and uh everyone could do aerial now, but like I think that there's the rise of acro, but then also the demand of acro for studios to try to keep up and then maybe not really have a qualified acro teacher potentially, where they're just like, well, this is so like in now that we have to offer acro and we want our dancers to do this, and we see the benefits of it because it'll gain their flexibility and they'll do some strength training and they'll work on their alignment.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's not being taught properly, then it just becomes unsafe acro, and then we're actually really damaging the dancers to just like keep up with the trend.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: And that like on the teacher's end, it's like, well, we have to make sure that you're continuing to educate yourself and get the proper training that's needed.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: And there are certifications out there, like that can is a stepping stone into being like better at teaching acro.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't like are is everyone qualified to teach acro?
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there is no way in the world I would ever feel confident teaching acro, regardless of like I think that some of us just need to know like what where you where your place is, like in the industry.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: We all have our specialty, we know what we do.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you don't teach ballet, don't be teaching ballet.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't teach acro, don't be teaching acro and teaching these kids bad habits and and poor technique, because then that's going to translate into their other styles.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm not calling everybody out, I'm not saying everyone teaches bad acro.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there's fantastic acro studios, but like I can tell as a judge, again, goes back to like the training.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell if you have a quality acro teacher.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: I can tell how you run into it, I can tell by your hurdle, I can tell by your dismount, I can tell your training on the ins and outs.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people forget that, oh, well, I teach, I take acro.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, yeah, but are you learning the like fundamentals of this skill?
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because it that's what's going to keep you safe at the end of the day, is the ins and outs of things.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's one thing to think, you know, a lot of people are looking at what's happening in competition and they're like, I have to be able to do that, but really it's more valuable to do what you're good at.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's I would much rather, as a teacher or a judge, or a choreographer, see what you're good at instead of see you attempt a whole bunch of things you're not ready for.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_03: It's more valuable.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: I'd rather see two pirouettes and then you have some sort of actual content in your emotion or your performance quality because I miss dance.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: I miss seeing people dance.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I think dance has turned into gymnastics, a lot of rhythmic gymnastics set to music on stage.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I miss the times when okay, cool, you're flexible, that's great, but you used it in the in a way that I didn't even know you were doing a trick, you know?
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I think unless you can do that, it I don't even want to see the acro.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then on top of that, it even goes with just like basic dance technique.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: They don't students don't realize that, like, even an audience member, an untrained eye, if they're watching a dancer do six pirouettes but it's out of control, they don't understand why it's not uh fun to watch, but it's not comfortable to watch, you know, and so a professional dancer who has control over their body has a way of whether they look in control or out of control, always being in control.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's where we need to get our dancers to understand that the quality is so much more important than what it the flashy move is, whatever they think they're accomplishing, unless they're doing it with integrity, it's not an accomplishment.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, you said that so much more eloquently because what I usually say is I don't care if you rotated four times and it was messy.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care.
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_02: You did not do four pirouettes.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: You did not.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: That was not a pirouette.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: It was a spin.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't care.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I tell them you just wrote an entire essay and then you pressed a B.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, because you just did all you did three pirouettes and you should have quit at three.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that's where your that's where your quality is, you know.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then and again, it's patience though.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_03: Dancers have to have patience, and teachers have to have patience in order to inject that kind of integrity into their technique and be ready to move on to the next thing.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's hard for teachers sometimes though, because they probably are getting pushback from parents.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right?
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_00: If a parent is saying, you know, let's say they see the next solo at competition and they said, Why did that dancer do a quad pirouette pirouette and my dancer only did a single, right?
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then the teachers and the teachers in that awkward situation where they're kind of like, Well, I prioritize safety over, you know, the amount of pirouettes that they're doing.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I could definitely see how it's hard for some of these teachers to keep up with all of the, you know, all of the pushback that they're getting.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes I wish there was a way because I feel like we're starting to have really nice outlets to reaching teachers thanks to you guys and you know, different boards and things that I see community coming together.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_03: But sometimes I wish there was a way that we could educate the parents.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_03: Because also when the teachers try to educate the parents, they they don't take to it very well sometimes.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_03: But they do look up to people like you guys and like teachers that they see at conventions because they think that that's where they want their kid to be.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: And their opinions are valuable or an outlet.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, well, we're saying the same thing that your teacher's saying.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_01: You know, why is that?
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and I think that's exactly we hear that a lot, you know, especially now that you there's there's options like online critiques where parents can submit and parents can hear from a judge.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't know how often a studio is letting the parents listen to the critiques.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: But like we've gotten a lot of feedback that wow, you guys said the same thing my kid's teacher said.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_02: And not only is that a good thing for the kid to hear it back, you know, over and over again from different sources, but I think it's good for the parents too to really realize, oh, like, oh, I I guess I can trust my studio because you're hearing it from other professionals.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, we're we don't have this huge pedestal to stand on.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like we could be wrong at some times too, but like most of the time, yeah, your teacher's probably right.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: Your teacher is probably saying the same thing I'm gonna say.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's not more valuable because I'm saying it or because Jamie's saying it.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's just, it's just another way to hear the same information.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, you know, I I think you're right, Jamie.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there are finally some more outlets where, you know, parents, parents can hear the truth, which is a lot of times, you know, what they want.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: They want it, but they don't know that they're getting it already.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, not to I don't want to talk about this for too long because it could go on forever, but I feel like parenting styles are different these days.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so there is something to having, you know, community where we can all kind of talk about what is the standard, what is the expectation.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of parents are apt to believe something maybe that didn't happen in the room, or they're believing that, oh, their kid is doing the best they possibly can, but really that kid is not taking any of the notes in the classroom or they're acting out.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so there's a lot of issues that I've seen with um just misunderstanding and not being connected to community where we are all like, Yes, this is what's happening in the classroom.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_03: Back when I was training, if my teacher, if I wasn't in the front row, my mother did not say, Well, let me go talk to your teacher because you didn't make it in the front, so it must be her fault because you're doing an amazing job.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're the best answer I've ever seen.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_03: My mom actually said, When I didn't get a scholarship and I was crying on the way home from an NYCDA one time, she asked, like, why didn't why are you upset?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_03: Why are you crying?
• 55:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I told her why.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I had been working so hard, I really wanted a scholarship.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: And my mom said, Well, you know what?
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_03: I understand that, and you have been working really hard, and she gave me all the love.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: And and then she also said, and I think these are the reasons why maybe you didn't get a scholarship.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_03: And none of it was technical, it was all like, you know, you were work working really hard, but sometimes you look so focused that you look unhappy.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't give a scholarship to a kid that didn't look happy in my class.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, Denise gave you all these goals and you have achieved some of them.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_03: Congratulations.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: You still have a little ways to go.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe that could help you get your scholarship, you know, and so she never overstepped and told me what to do technically, but she observed what my teacher wanted from me.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_03: She trusted my teacher, that was a big part.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_03: And then um, she just helped to hold me accountable.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I I'm missing the accountability a lot when it comes to training and parenting.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so when teachers try to hold their dancers accountable, it sometimes becomes a problem because the dancer is not being used to being held accountable.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they're not used to that.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so, and then it's a fight with the the parent sometimes.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so I I can understand that teachers are in a really hard position mediating everything when they're trying to improve or trying to switch their curriculum or make their kids better dancers, but socializing and social the social world is changing today, and it all is like we're all just trying to figure it out sometimes.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, I I still have so many, so many thoughts on on the safety of of dance.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just it's never ending.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, Jamie, you you said you had a running list of skills that you you could think of that are dangerous that you see at comp.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: Do you do you still know those skills?
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely any sort of knee drop is you've already mentioned that.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then you mentioned the flexibility thing.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: Those are top two for me.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_03: And also, we talked about alignment earlier, but I see a lot of dancers doing either acro or jump skills.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of like 540s, different jumping skills, and they're not taking off or landing properly.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: And I have a lot of like literally like heart palpitations whenever I see these things happen because I know that in an instant it could change their entire life.
• 57:13
  SPEAKER_01: That's how I feel about a front aerial every time I see it.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like that first leg that lands a front aerial.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: And if your weight's not where it needs to be, I know it's it's it literally we're all cringing.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: I no one can see us, but we're all cringing in terror because we all know exactly what they're describing.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I always tell dancers on the critiques, and then at revel where I currently judge, I'm the teacher judge, so I can talk right to the teachers.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I uh I always say things like you never want someone, you mentioned this, Jamie, you never want the audience or the viewer to feel nervous or uncomfortable about what we're watching.
• 57:50
  SPEAKER_01: I shouldn't have to close cover my eyes in terror as I see what's about to happen.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: It hadn't even happened.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's about to be a disaster, possibly.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I cover my eyes in terror or I turn my head away because that's how nervous I am just based on the prep.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_01: You haven't even done the skill.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's that's how I feel every time I see front aerials, which are really in now.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're the new aerial, but they're the new aerial.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: If you land that wrong, you can blow your nose.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_02: Blind landing.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_02: Terrifying.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_01: And same with those, those uh knee drop things that any any drop, if I can hear your knee slam, flying the flying knee drop, the one when the little like dance bomb jump and they like you know what I'm talking about.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, the patellos oh box.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: I Maria, I'm curious.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_02: Are like that was when we were talking about like what are the what are your top, you know, terrifying steps.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: Is there even an actual safe way to do something like that?
• 58:45
  SPEAKER_02: Like the big knee leap thing?
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because I don't think there is.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, everybody says land on the side of your thigh.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, how often is that even happening?
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how can you is there a safe way to drop to your knees like that in in the dramatic fashion that everybody wants to do?
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, you can those little, you know, you do the toe rise, knee drop back in the 80s and the 90s, like that was a thing you did.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_02: You like arched your back and you're up on the tips of your toes and then you drop down.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: All right, fine.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: But like it's it's gotten so much scarier out there.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: Now they're leaning forward onto the kneecap.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think about that?
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I've seen, I've read about like landing more on the shin, basically, and not necessarily on the knee itself.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_00: But again, like, are we really thinking that everybody's applying that?
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and anatomically, like that seems hard.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_02: That seems like your shin doesn't stick out, you know, like it's a flat.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have the like a little concrete.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_03: It feels like you have to almost have a perfect arch to be able to land to catch.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right there, yeah.
• 59:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: And you have to have the correct technique to like even understand how to find that in the air to land properly.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there's so much more to like, even before we even attempt this jump, that there should be structure to your foundational training.
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_01: To like, are you running with your heel or are you using your plie and leading to a ball heel?
• 1:00:04
  SPEAKER_01: What is that final step before you take off for that leap?
• 1:00:07
  SPEAKER_01: Are you again flat footed and leaning with your heel?
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_01: Are you taking, you know, the basics of the ins and outs of it?
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: Are is that even being taught correctly?
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: And because again, it's like this is already unsafe, even if you're amazingly like amazing dancer that's technically trained.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: So then when we see dancers who are training dancers who aren't at the high skill of a professional whom it's already dangerous for, then that's even harder to achieve.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_00: And we're talking about the knee, which is the most unstable joint in the body.
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it's already doesn't have a lot going for it.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_01: Wiggles around.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like the hip.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like the hip, right?
• 1:00:44
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: Very different from the hip.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_02: So as we spoke about in the headshot and resume episode recently, your special skills list what you can do, something interesting.
• 1:00:54
  SPEAKER_02: Maybe it's acro, maybe it's tumbling.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_02: But I know professional dancers who can tumble, who do have, you know, kind of amazing acro skills who do not tell anybody about it because you will get asked to do it.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: And you might get asked to do it eight shows a week on a cruise shift stage that's moving on a concrete floor at a theme park.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I know, like, so it's cool that you can do these skills.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, maybe you can do one safe knee leap to the gods, whatever.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: Can you do that eight shows a week?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_02: Are you willing to put your body through that eight shows a week or seven competitions a year?
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I don't know that you really want to do that to yourself.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, I think a thing to just, you know, I I I feel like an old fuddy duddy at this point, you know, because I remember back in the day when you're a kid and the, you know, adults are telling you, you know, body it's cool now.
• 1:01:42
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's fun now, but like you, I re it really doesn't matter in the long run.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm telling you, but really doesn't matter in the long run.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care if you do the flying needle up to the floor.
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care if it's the most impressive thing you think you've ever done in your life and you think that's gonna get you a gold medal or a platinum medal or a dolly dazzle, whatever.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's not.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: We don't care.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's not worth it.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: Please do a proper pirouette.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_02: Please do a drag and reach over here with some emotion.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_03: You are just like speaking to my heart right now, and I have to just, I like agree with everything you're saying so hard.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_03: And it's making me feel too like we need to touch on this other side of it where, you know, the kids they want these things so much, but there are kids that are in pain and the teachers are forcing them to do that.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_03: That is true.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: That is true.
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_03: And we also need to talk about that because I know of studios that obviously I would never like speak of name-wise, but I know it's happening where the kids are the kids are saying my knee hurts, and they're being for real.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_03: They're not saying I want to sit out.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_03: They're like, There, I'm having pain in my knee, or I'm having pain in my back.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then the teacher's like, I don't care.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_03: Five, six, seven, eight, you push through.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_03: That's what we do.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_03: We're dancers, you push through.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_03: And that was also a very old, like, traditional mindset was it doesn't matter if you're hurting, you you just do it, you push through.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's why I push through a few times when I shouldn't have.
• 1:02:55
  SPEAKER_03: But now I like won't allow it in my class.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'll ask them what kind of pain are you feeling?
• 1:03:00
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll ask them where, what kind of pain is it, so I can figure out are they just feeling like a muscular like soreness?
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_03: Because sometimes with the little ones, they don't know what pain is yet.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_03: What kind of pain means what?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, if I think that's what's happening, then I'll talk to them about that and you know, try to decipher what kind of pain they're having and where and whether I feel like it's actually alarming.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if it's something I don't understand, I'm not even gonna touch on it.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you should take it easy.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_03: But a lot of times kids just don't understand the pain, and then a lot of times they're actually speaking up and they're being shut down.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times they're scared to speak up because they know they'll be shut down.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that there's also something there with teachers.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_03: We need to be, as some teachers, need to be more compassionate towards dancers and more educated so that they can know what the dancer is experiencing and be accepting of that and help guide them.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_01: And how we can modify as needed if give an alternative to modify or okay, well, this dancer's experiences pain.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: Let's evaluate.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is this knee drop really worth it?
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_01: Does this really enhance the dance that much?
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_01: But this dancer can't do it.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: So we can give her a little solo moment, or we have to go back to basics and correct this knee drop because why is she in pain?
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: There is a reason she's in pain because there's something that's wrong with the execution of this skill.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: The let me let me really zone in and see, oh, it's because you're stepping and you're tweaking your knee here and the alignment's off, so you're not getting your hips properly squared.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's always a reason because if you're if you're trained and again, like you can be trained flawlessly, but sometimes we're always gonna have we're we can have an off day or we can step into something wrong one time and that's it.
• 1:04:35
  SPEAKER_01: So if you are doing tech if you are doing skills with the improper technique and fundamentals over and over and over and over and over again, it's bound to lead to an unsafe injury.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's just it's bound, I mean, unfortunately, it's sad to say it, but it's probably gonna happen, whether it's on the spot during the skill or just a wear and tear down the road, where like two years later you might be like, oh man, my knee is really like it clicks every time I bicycle or walk or whatever, and you don't even know why.
• 1:05:05
  SPEAKER_01: Nothing happened.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's what happened to me, actually, with my injuries was my first big injury was when I was doing West Side Story and I got a stress fracture in my back.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was just from the wear and tear over the years of doing like com cambres and airbusks and attitude whacks and anything that involved like bending backwards.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually, like nothing happened.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: There was no like traumatic like accident that happened to initiate this injury.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was just a wear and tear over time that just crept up on me eventually and said, Nope, you're not dancing anymore.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely not.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and that's scary.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't and and even for me, and I was an adult then.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know you can relate, Jamie, and I know Leslie, you've had some injuries, I'm sure we all have, but like I wasn't even a child.
• 1:05:46
  SPEAKER_01: So like I can't imagine if I had an injury as a child and what that would feel like then.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_01: But being on a team, letting people down, not sure how to talk to my teachers about it, uh, not sure how to talk to mom, because ever I know.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: For a fact, whenever I brought up an injury or something hurt to mom, they'd just be like, Oh God, I gotta take you to the doctor again, okay, whatever.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just brush it off instead of it having to be like, Okay, let's get this figured out.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, we want to make sure you have a long, healthy body for for a long time.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you want to do this for a career, so we have to make sure that we're setting you up now so you can do this for a long time, because our bodies don't last forever when it comes to dance.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I I don't know, it's a great point that you brought up, Jamie, because I I've seen like the studios that even that competition, I can just tell like how like ferocious and how much they've drilled this and things, but then I'm watching them do skills within those routines that are just done wrong, and I'm just like, oh this is so clean, you guys work so hard to get this so clean, but there's so many foundational things wrong in the execution of the skills that are damn that can be damaging, and that makes me scared for your longevity.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: And we have to like fix that in the studio and not power through these painful things.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, and like I would love to hear Maria's perspective on this as far as like how do you educate a dancer or even a teacher on deciphering a pain or a complaint from a dancer in class.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things we want to realize is when we're feeling real pain, it's basically our bodies whispering to us, right?
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: The body saying something's basically wrong or something just doesn't feel right, right?
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: So what happens is dancers ignore it as dancers are because they push, push, push, push, push, okay?
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then it turns into a screen where an injury happens, right?
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_00: But if it was taken care of from day one, it probably wouldn't have turned into a screen.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: It probably would have just stayed a whisper, right?
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_00: But again, it's just part of the ingrained culture that we need to stop like right now.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: Again, there's no more excuses when the information is right in people's hands now, right?
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's coming from that push culture of push, push, push, and pain is like pain is a sign of weakness, right?
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_00: Pain equals weakness.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm so guilty of that because one of my injuries, it was just a small little thing, just a little clicking I was feeling, and I danced on it for six more months, and then one day I was just walking down the stairs after I took a jazz class, and I was taking Joel Anterior's jazz class for fun at NYCDA, and I just walked off the stage and I stepped down and my knee dislocated.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and it was like in two pieces, and a parent saw it happen, and she had to pick me up and take me to the doctor, and it was a whole big thing, but it was progressive over time, and I just remember kicking myself thinking if you had just listened to your body when it was a small little something was off, something was off.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, that I felt like I learned that lesson the hard way, and now I just feel so compassionate towards dancers when I'm like, Okay, no, what is that that you're feeling?
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_03: You know, is it really something that we need to push through, or is it something that you actually need to listen to?
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I still can feel confused sometimes because I don't have all the education.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_03: So if I don't know, then I would advise them to get some other advice or just kind of sit out.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_03: But you know, I just feel more keen to staying safe now than telling a dancer to just push through a pain that we don't know about.
• 1:09:12
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, as educators, we don't need to be wearing all the hats, right?
• 1:09:17
  SPEAKER_00: We like to think that we can wear the hats, we like to be the psychologist, we like to be the nutritionist, we like to be the PT, but at the end of the day, we're not, right?
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_00: So we we can be harming our dancers if we're starting to give them specific guidance that we don't necessarily have training in.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we need to just be giving them like, you know, some very general information and then referring them out to dance-specific professionals is who I recommend.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't recommend seeing an average factor.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_02: Well, and Maria, you're part of the dancers, Doctors for Dancers Advisory Board, is that right?
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_02: So can you tell us a little bit about that just for our listeners?
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_02: Because when that came out a couple years ago, I feel like it was so important that like I just want to shout it far and wide because like we I live in New York City.
• 1:10:01
  SPEAKER_02: I'm surrounded by dance professionals in the PT psychology athletic trainer world.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm good.
• 1:10:08
  SPEAKER_02: But like for somebody in Iowa, like I don't know if they even have that.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_02: But like tell us more about Doctors for Dancers and how you're involved.
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that's another thing to take into consideration, actually.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_00: What you just said is like by people's location, dance science is a little bit different, it's a little bit more progressed in some areas, so that's why you're feeling like you know, in some areas, you know, like in Michigan, it's kind of medium in Michigan, I would say.
• 1:10:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not super progressed yet.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_00: But Doctors for Dancers is all focused on building positive training for dancers, basically, injury prevention and stuff like that.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And they're basically a resource platform of dance medicine professionals.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they're basically a database.
• 1:10:49
  SPEAKER_00: You go on their website and you can find anybody in your area.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_00: They're all dance professionals, so they were all dancers at some point.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, they're able to understand dancers at a deeper level and relate to them, and it's a very different experience.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So highly recommend checking them out.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they have, I mean, it's the database has grown so much over the past couple years since they came out.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: And like, you know, you can find a PT, you can find an orthopedic surgeon, you can I mean, I don't know if they have mental health professionals, but like if they don't, uh great, they have that.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, it's it really is my my PT currently from I've had three ankle surgeries in four years due to some overuse injuries and stuff.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_02: But my PT, my first PT was a normal person PT.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_02: And she just did not get it.
• 1:11:30
  SPEAKER_02: She did not understand what I had asked of my body previously.
• 1:11:33
  SPEAKER_02: It did not, she didn't understand what I wanted to eventually achieve again.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_02: It just she was a good doctor for somebody who just needed to be able to walk a mile.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_02: But she didn't understand what I was asking of my body.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_02: But now I'm with uh somebody who works with the Roquettes, she works for people on Broadway, she was an Irish dancer herself.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, like those people have different injuries than competitive dancers.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like so it's it's so important, like you said, Maria, to get to have the resources and to have the way to outsource what you don't know.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because we we don't know what we don't know, and we don't know everything.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_02: Nobody does, you know.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that that's an amazing resource, and I'm so glad that you are involved.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know what's I I always think of whenever we you go to a regular physical therapist that it isn't a dance specialty, and they're like, Oh my gosh, you're so flexible.
• 1:12:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, your range of motion.
• 1:12:22
  SPEAKER_01: You're the flex And meanwhile, you're like, this isn't even I'm like I'm like on the office.
• 1:12:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like my leg goes past 90, and they're like mind is blown.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Whoa, my god.
• 1:12:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, uh I can actually that's always a red flag for me.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it's like you're not the PT for me.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you don't know what I did.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_01: You don't understand.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's because dance movements are considered complex because they go past like Norman human locomotor movement.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 1:12:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the average person doesn't do a pirowa.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:12:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very two two very different worlds that we're talking about.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_03: I used to get in, like, you know, I mean, hopefully respectful arguments with some PTs back when I was looking for P because I would try, you know, I was trying to find my team at the time in the very beginning of my journey.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_03: I would try different physical therapists, and I would get in like these little arguments because they would ask me to do things.
• 1:13:14
  SPEAKER_03: I felt okay, I would do them.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_03: I would do them for a few weeks.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_03: I was like not progressing because I needed more weight or I needed more range of motion.
• 1:13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Or they would like try to put me into exercises and I didn't even have all my range of motion straightening my knee yet.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I knew from other things that like I need to have all my range of motion before I do certain exercises.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I would ask people about these things, and they're like, Oh no, you're fine, it's not gonna affect your gait, it's not gonna affect your this.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, they have no idea what I need to be able to do, you know.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_03: But I would sit there and basically beg them to like let me do certain exercises or let me like have a little bit more weight, or can I please like can I please not try that yet?
• 1:13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Because I don't feel comfortable doing that, because I feel like I don't have enough range of motion because I know my body and this isn't my range of motion, you know, and that's another thing.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_03: We know our bodies for the most part.
• 1:14:03
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like dancers are very body aware.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_03: If you are a more advanced dancer, we're so in tune with our bodies.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_03: So I would really feel like um some doctors would almost patronize me as if the way I was telling them I my body felt, if they couldn't see physical evidence of it, it was like it didn't exist.
• 1:14:20
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I found a good dance team, they totally understood that.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_03: They understood how where my body they trusted that what I was feeling was real.
• 1:14:27
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, they worked with me to figure out how to fix it or how to like find balance in it, but it wasn't until I had a team full of dance, you know, physical therapists and an orthopedic doctor who knew dance, and that made such a huge difference.
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it really does.
• 1:14:40
  SPEAKER_01: It really makes a huge difference.
• 1:14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I do hope that if dancers are experiencing any any type of injury where they need to seek dance specialty help, then they can use that resource of Doctors for Dancers, which is so I mean, look at how far we've come, y'all.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is amazing that we there's a website dedicated to us for doctors.
• 1:14:58
  SPEAKER_01: How cool is that.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, wow, y'all.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_01: This was a great chat.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Unfortunately, we have to wrap up, even though I know we could talk about this forever.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I've loved uh hearing y'all's perspectives and sharing your wisdom and knowledge and experiences that you both have had throughout your careers in the dance world.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_01: And uh it's a it was an important top topic today.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm really glad we covered it on this episode.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I hope it was eye-opening for dancers, teachers, parents, everyone.
• 1:15:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is an episode for everybody.
• 1:15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Hope y'all listen and enjoy.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you both for joining us.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: How we always have our guests lead us out on making the impact is just with one final thought to on the topic.
• 1:15:37
  SPEAKER_01: So it can be two, you can speak to whoever you'd like.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can talk to the dancers, you can talk to the parents, you can talk to the studio owners, teachers.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about keeping dance physically safe.
• 1:15:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know, my my main thing that I would want dancers, teachers, and parents to all take away is that the dancer's body is our tool, just like if you're a a musician, you have an instrument.
• 1:16:01
  SPEAKER_03: And so the more you can understand your instrument, understand your body, and treat it like that, fine-tuning it, taking care of it just like you would a piano or a guitar, making sure that you're taking care of that because you also can't replace it, like you said in the beginning, you know.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_03: So it's not a guitar, you can go buy a new one.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's our most precious tool.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so the more we as dancers can understand what it is we're working with, we can help stay safe.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_03: And it also creates happiness and longevity and opportunity for us, knowing our bodies.
• 1:16:30
  SPEAKER_00: In this era of heightened movement demands, I think we can kind of think of it as a sphere, right?
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: How can we support our dancers during this time, right?
• 1:16:39
  SPEAKER_00: Let's give them cross-training, let's do journaling with them, let's teach anatomy from a young age, right?
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let's support them as a human being, let's give them time for rest and recovery, right?
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do all of the things that are gonna support them in this new era that they're in.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode all about keeping dance physically safe.
• 1:17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to follow our special guests on social media.
• 1:17:03
  SPEAKER_01: You can find Maria at the.dance scientists on Instagram and Jamie at Jimmy Goodwin.
• 1:17:10
  SPEAKER_01: Also be sure to visit Maria's website at the dance scientists.net, where she offers a wide range of dance science products and resources, like principal e-books, mini courses, poll courses, mentoring, and masterclasses.
• 1:17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And don't forget to check out Jamie's company Relative Motion, the only dance training program with patented anatomical apparel to make technique visual, clear, and keepable.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_01: Follow them on Instagram at The Relative Motion Experience, and visit their website to learn more about their upcoming feature trainings and one-of-a-kind studio integration workshops at therelative motion experience.com.
• 1:17:47
  SPEAKER_02: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:17:55
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• 1:18:01
  SPEAKER_02: Join now at ImpactDance Educators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Are you looking for even more personalized, in-depth feedback from your standard judges critique that you've been receiving at competition this season?
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_01: Want to really know how to take your dance to the next level?
• 1:18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Then check out our service, IDA's online judges critiques, where you will receive up to 10 to 15 minutes of post-critique additional feedback.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_01: You can even request a judge that specializes in your submitted dance genre, and they will go back through your routine from beginning to end and pause the video to elaborate even more on those specific projects.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Send us your video from an in-studio rehearsal for your latest competition stage performance, and let our budgets help you prep before your next event.
• 1:18:47
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• 1:18:50
  SPEAKER_01: Submit your dance now at Impact Danceeducators.com/slash online critique.
• 1:18:56
  SPEAKER_01: We can't wait to see your dance.
• 1:18:58
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks for joining us for season four of Making the Impact.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_02: We've got more great episodes coming your way, including episodes on Twitter, our next video spotlight, and the importance of counting your music.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_01: I hope you're enjoying season four of Making the Impact.
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in week after week.
• 1:19:14
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see you next week.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Until then, keep dancing.