Latest / Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash / #142 Jessie Stephens On Workplace Romance, Baby Highs And Prenatal Depression

Transcript

#142 Jessie Stephens On Workplace Romance, Baby Highs And Prenatal Depression · Two Doting Dads with Matty J & Ash

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Ash, did you know that most romances happen in the office.
• 0:04
  Speaker 2: I hate to break it to you, Matt, but I'm
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: a happily married man. That but a couple of drinks, Ash, please,
• 0:13
  Speaker 2: Oh so well.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Today's guest is a Sunday Times best seller broadcaster and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: known for her astute opinions on Mamma Mia out loud,
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: I'm talking about Jesse Stevens. She also happened to find
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: love in the workplace.
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: Oh, Matt, and not any kind of love. Ooh. Luca
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: Levine also happens to be Jesse's boss's son.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Oh that's gcy. You never know who, what, or where
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: you'll find the love of your life, Ash.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: That's what makes life so exciting. Certainly, it certainly had
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: a bit of spice to the workplace, that's for sure.
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: And Jesse spills all the.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: Tea Yes because spoiler alert, Luca and Jesse's romance produced
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: a beautiful baby girl, little Luna, who is almost two
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: years old.
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: Jesse also has a bit to share about her experience
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: of parental depression and how the pressure to get shit
• 1:03
  Speaker 2: done before she gave birth made her film Numb.
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: Welcome Back to two doting dads and one doting mom.
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: I am Maddie.
• 1:24
  Speaker 3: J I'm Ash and I am Jesse Stevens. I am
• 1:28
  Speaker 3: the doting mum. I think I think three.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Unless it anywhere else, No, just bust under the table.
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: This is a podcast all about parenting. It is the good, it.
• 1:37
  Speaker 2: Is the bad and the relatable.
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: And if you've come for advice, Jesse, we do not
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: give it, not from Ash and myself. However, you are
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: a very intelligent person, far superior than us simple minded
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: dad's on the side. Yes, so you I'm sure, please,
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: I hope give advice if you've got.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: Any no pressure.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Well, I've had Ash on a podcast I did before
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: giving this advice, which one was that.
• 2:00
  Speaker 4: It was called the baby Bubble.
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: I forgot the name for a second. Yeah, and we had.
• 2:06
  Speaker 4: Actually, I'm sure you gave us some advice. You're very wise. Actually, no, you.
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: Talked about having a proseectomy that we asked you all
• 2:13
  Speaker 3: the details about you for sect me.
• 2:15
  Speaker 4: It's very enlightening.
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: Thank you for asking me many questions about my penis
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: and testicles. I really appreciate it.
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: Did you fuck the lawyer? The lawyers will be annoyed.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Did you give advice on that episode? No, nothing real,
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Jesse did he?
• 2:27
  Speaker 4: I think we knew he wasn't an advice guy.
• 2:29
  Speaker 2: Thanks thanks for having me on.
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: We always start off going back to what you were
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: like as a teenager, and I dare say that I
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: think you would have been someone who would have been
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: like a ducks of the school.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I was going to pick that too. Actually, yeah, I
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: do not.
• 2:46
  Speaker 3: Come across as a duck school cryptal. No was a
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: house captain.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: What's a house captain?
• 2:50
  Speaker 4: A house captain, sports, house captain? Yeah, like that, like that.
• 2:54
  Speaker 3: Claire and I were house captain of yellow yellow house Yellow.
• 2:58
  Speaker 3: I know, I didn't feel yellow didn't have the same
• 3:00
  Speaker 3: Was it called yellow? No, it was called a saint's
• 3:02
  Speaker 3: name because I went to a Catholic school.
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: What's the saint of yellow?
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: Praton?
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, we have hours are named after different birds, like
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: like uh.
• 3:20
  Speaker 4: Magpie.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: No, Rosella is red, Lori seagull. I can't remember the
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: other one.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Mars is Mitchell house. What color are you in red?
• 3:34
  Speaker 4: I knew I was going to say you're in red?
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: I was red.
• 3:37
  Speaker 3: You just have red energy because red a wise wins fastest.
• 3:41
  Speaker 4: Ye ready the fastest.
• 3:44
  Speaker 3: No, I was yellow house captain and I was I
• 3:48
  Speaker 3: was all right, But then in about year eleven, I
• 3:51
  Speaker 3: thought I would try really hard because I'm really really
• 3:54
  Speaker 3: competitive and I hate losing.
• 3:55
  Speaker 4: So it's like, Okay, I'm going to try my absolute best.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: And I did, and I ended up being ducks with
• 3:59
  Speaker 3: my My school wasn't selective or anything picked.
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: I nailed it.
• 4:04
  Speaker 4: We knew that.
• 4:05
  Speaker 3: I thought that you somehow knew that I was duck
• 4:08
  Speaker 3: of my school and second in my year.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: One guess that's the this is the first prediction we've
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: ever got right.
• 4:14
  Speaker 4: No, we're always quite what's the prediction for who got second?
• 4:17
  Speaker 4: In my ear?
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Are your sister? Yeah?
• 4:19
  Speaker 4: Yeah, she came second.
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: We're actually I didn't know.
• 4:24
  Speaker 4: This was a psychic podcast that was very exciting.
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: But who spearheaded the decision to like, now we knuckle down.
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: I think it was some twin telepathy ship where we
• 4:35
  Speaker 3: just looked at each other and we were like, let's
• 4:36
  Speaker 3: now beat these bitches.
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: Let's just we'll come together as a team.
• 4:39
  Speaker 3: We just studied really hard, and I ended up I
• 4:42
  Speaker 3: did extension history and I came first in the state
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: for extension history and Claire came fifth. So we just
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: put our heads down and we're like yeah.
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: Question yep, all girls school Yep, okay, current debate in
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: our family co ed all girls thoughts.
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: My mum taught it a co for years and years.
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: Dad teaches it in all boys. I think co ed's better,
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: better for you, Like I I'd like to send my
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: daughter to a co ed. But the thing about our
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: school was that it was very kind of It was
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: a Catholic school, but the schools around us were very private.
• 5:16
  Speaker 4: So a lot of the private.
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: Boys' schools, you know schools are Woolwich, which is in
• 5:21
  Speaker 3: like Hunter's Hill, Hunter's Hill. Yeah, but they were all
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: the fancy boys schools and they all had their tutors
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: and their you know, fancy applications to go to Cambridge
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: or Oxford. And that was not our not our school
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: school was just you know, it was actually more sporty,
• 5:36
  Speaker 3: which I wasn't necessarily good at. But yes, Clara and
• 5:39
  Speaker 3: I actually put our head down and then went to
• 5:41
  Speaker 3: UNI and got a ridge shop.
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: Did you ever get in trouble at school and blame
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: you twin?
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: Yes? Okay, perfect, Yes, we did some.
• 5:49
  Speaker 3: We definitely did some swapping and excuse me swapping, yes,
• 5:54
  Speaker 3: because we're identical.
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: But the best trick was it.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: We played doubles tennis, right, and I am deathly competitive,
• 6:03
  Speaker 3: but I can't serve to save my life. So we
• 6:05
  Speaker 3: would do a little sneaky little between games, just a
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: little dance, and they're just served every time, like I
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: never served. Same outfit, same hair, same everything, and no
• 6:19
  Speaker 3: one knew.
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: You never did anything like, hey, you're much better at
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: ancient history, so we're gonna I'll take that test for you. No,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: you can't admit to this kind of stuff. This is
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: very incriminating.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: You could have just pretended to be one student gone
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: to school.
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: I really really well. We used to do that.
• 6:35
  Speaker 3: We worked at a golf club for years together, and they,
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: the golfers would think we were one really efficient worker
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: when really we were two sheep workers that were usually
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: on the phone, like on our phone out the back.
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: But they were like, you're everywhere. I was like, no, there's.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Two of us. How good, it's very very good.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: You did very well at school, I'm assuming did very
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: well at university.
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: And not that well at university.
• 6:56
  Speaker 1: She's being modest. You end up working at my yeap,
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: which I have to congratulate, and all the amazing work
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: that you have done because it is astounding.
• 7:07
  Speaker 4: It's a very fun job, very fun.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: I want to talk about your now husband, Yes, Luca,
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: do you remember the moment that he stepped into the
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: office and you locked eyes with him?
• 7:18
  Speaker 4: Yes?
• 7:18
  Speaker 3: I remember him starting and there were a few whispers
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: because we knew that it was our boss, and at
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: that time it was Maya was my boss, and I
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: worked closely with her because I was doing a podcast
• 7:29
  Speaker 3: with her once a week and husband, Jason was a CEO.
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: So literally Maya and Jason were my bosses. And then
• 7:37
  Speaker 3: their son came in because he was really lost. He'd
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: finished school, didn't know what he was doing and came
• 7:44
  Speaker 3: in just for a bit of work experience or whatever.
• 7:46
  Speaker 4: And we were like, oh, we're gonna have to train him.
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: And my thing was like he's going to dob on
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: me when I'm wasting time, Like if I check my phone,
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: He's going to tell his parents that I'm actually being
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: a bit lazy, and so we all were on our
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: behavior around him. But I remember he walked in and
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: it was like hi, and then we sort of trained
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: him up in a few things and then before we
• 8:06
  Speaker 3: knew it.
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: Like was he good?
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Was he?
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: Yeah? Yeah, he was really, And that's the thing.
• 8:10
  Speaker 3: I think we all had a little bit of an
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: assumption about maybe he was going to be entitled and
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: maybe he was going to walk in and think he
• 8:18
  Speaker 3: didn't have to do any of the hard work. What
• 8:20
  Speaker 3: surprised us was that he was humble, he was quiet,
• 8:24
  Speaker 3: and he was really really hard working. So he he
• 8:28
  Speaker 3: was very very smart and had you know, gone so
• 8:32
  Speaker 3: well at school and was a great writer.
• 8:34
  Speaker 4: Like he was a really really good writer.
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: So I remember working with him on that, and then
• 8:38
  Speaker 3: we would go and get drinks on like a Friday
• 8:41
  Speaker 3: night or whatever after work, and one of my boss said,
• 8:45
  Speaker 3: he likes someone in this office, but I don't know
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: who it is because I don't know why he's going
• 8:48
  Speaker 3: like he's excited for drinks. Oh yeah, that was a giveaway,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: is it. He'd be like, are we getting drinks tonight?
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, looks kan On drink And
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: so we thought it was we thought it was somebody else.
• 8:59
  Speaker 4: I was just like, yeah, I think he likes Katie.
• 9:01
  Speaker 4: I reckon he likes Katie.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: But Katie was already taken, So I think you had
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: to go for the.
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: Next At this point, any romantic sparks internally, No, no,
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: as anyone said could pick up on it.
• 9:19
  Speaker 4: No, we were just really good friends.
• 9:21
  Speaker 3: And I think we started actually recording a podcast and
• 9:24
  Speaker 3: he might have been producing it at the time, and
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: he really I remember Clara and I were writing recaps
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: at the time.
• 9:29
  Speaker 4: It was probably about your season of The Bachelor.
• 9:31
  Speaker 1: God, I'm sorry writing.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: Recauts, lots of crying, zooming in.
• 9:37
  Speaker 3: On your face, and Luca would always read it. He'd
• 9:40
  Speaker 3: come in and be like, I really liked it. I
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: thought it was funny when you said this, this and this.
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: Like he just liked our work. You know. We'd turn
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: up and pitch every morning. And you know how when
• 9:48
  Speaker 3: you're at work, you can't pretend to be someone like
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: you are just yourself.
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: It's not like on.
• 9:53
  Speaker 3: A Friday or Saturday night when you can you're going
• 9:55
  Speaker 3: out to dinner and you put on a bit of
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: a persona. So we got really close and really friendly,
• 10:00
  Speaker 3: and he really liked true crime podcasts.
• 10:02
  Speaker 4: We'd always share them.
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: So it was just very very friendly and very slow
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: after over months and months, and we'd even hang out
• 10:09
  Speaker 3: on the weekend and stuff, and it was like myself,
• 10:11
  Speaker 3: my twin sister and him, like the three of us
• 10:13
  Speaker 3: were really really close. Then I think we started hanging
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: out more just us, and that's when it got a
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: bit close to what was the moment where you thought,
• 10:21
  Speaker 3: oh my goodness, he's not just a friend.
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: I think I might like this guy.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: I remember we went to a friend's like Farewell, and
• 10:30
  Speaker 3: we were there that night and there was just a vibe,
• 10:33
  Speaker 3: and I thought, I think, like, I am feeling a
• 10:35
  Speaker 3: bit of a vibe. And then I thought, are you
• 10:39
  Speaker 3: leaning into this because you think it's risky? Like is
• 10:44
  Speaker 3: it a bit for fun? It's exciting, it's exciting. I'm
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: excited because you know, you shouldn't run.
• 10:51
  Speaker 4: It's a good story.
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: It's like being told not to jump over the edge
• 10:54
  Speaker 3: of something you kind of and so I was going, beautiful,
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: you might lose a hand exactly like I had.
• 11:01
  Speaker 4: No idea both hands, who knows.
• 11:04
  Speaker 3: And so when I started feeling that, Claire said to me,
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: you know, be really careful because it's good backfire. We've
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: worked really hard to be here. And then if you
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: date in the boss's son, something goes wrong, like fuck,
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: put the fireworks down.
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: Claire is just not into it at all, whereas Luca.
• 11:26
  Speaker 4: Luca eventually I think he called.
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: I remember him saying something like I like someone in
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: the office, and like he did this whole thing, and
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: then it was like it's you, and it was just
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: like cute, and then we you and.
• 11:41
  Speaker 4: Then I wrote, this is so weird.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: But like he came over for the first time, we
• 11:45
  Speaker 3: watched some really graphic, awful true crime documentary. But that
• 11:49
  Speaker 3: was like our love language was watching these revolting documentaries.
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: Once we started seeing each other, it just kind of
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: went from there. I think he's a very he didn't
• 11:58
  Speaker 3: want to waste anyone's time, and he's and everyone who
• 12:02
  Speaker 3: knows him is like, he's not you know, he seems
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: so much older than he is, And I think that's
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: why when he started hanging out with my friends, it
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: wasn't weird because he was just fit in seamlessly.
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: He is about six years younger than you.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he was the eldest child, you know,
• 12:19
  Speaker 3: had two parents who worked a lot, lots of independence,
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: understood media very well. Like I don't think he was.
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: He's always been an old old man, like more mature
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: than I am.
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: Had you dated anyone younger, no.
• 12:33
  Speaker 3: And I wouldn't even if I would have been on
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: all the apps at that stage, I wouldn't have dated
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: anyone one year younger than me, like I would have
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: had all my dating app set to my age.
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: Are older, because I guess there's just a bit of
• 12:44
  Speaker 4: a taboo about it.
• 12:45
  Speaker 3: And I just thought, Oh, we'd be in a different
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: stage and we wouldn't have anything in common.
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: Do you think because you were friends first that it
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: really helped.
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: Yeah?
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: I think that that made a difference, and that I
• 12:54
  Speaker 3: kind of went, if you're not going to do it
• 12:57
  Speaker 3: because you're worried about what people are gonna think, think
• 13:00
  Speaker 3: anyone is actually thinking about.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: You that much, and you could have missed out on something, Yeah, amazing. Yeah.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: There was someone I worked with who was maybe in
• 13:06
  Speaker 3: her forties and her husband was six or seven years younger,
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: and she'd talked about it sometimes and I just went,
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: this is actually happening all the time, Like there are
• 13:15
  Speaker 3: age gaps all the time. The older you get, the
• 13:17
  Speaker 3: less you feel the gap as well. So now he's
• 13:20
  Speaker 3: in his late twenties and I'm in my mid thirties,
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: Like it doesn't you don't feel it?
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, when you're younger, you're like what, Yeah, I think
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: about that.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and my mates as well in their mid twenties.
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: They wouldn't have better annihild at dating a twenty year old,
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: like as in my male friends. I think that that's
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: not stigmatized. But for women, the idea of dating someone
• 13:43
  Speaker 3: younger just I don't know, there's definitely a.
• 13:46
  Speaker 2: Stigma, do you think as well, like because we always
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: talk about how girls mature faster than Yeah, man, the
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: expectation is that you want someone at your maturity level,
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: but if you were friends with him.
• 13:58
  Speaker 4: I think the other thing is babies.
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: I think that it's like, if you are thinking about
• 14:03
  Speaker 3: having kids one day, then there's a risk in going
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: for a man who's younger than you, because it's like
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: by the time you're ready, and then you're getting older
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: and older. And if he's not ready till he's in
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: his mid thirties and you want to start there, and
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: then that's a complication. But I mean the irony of
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: that is that I know many men in their mid
• 14:19
  Speaker 3: to late thirties who aren't ready, Like, yeah, I don't
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: think it's his age dependent.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: I mean in their forties is still aren't ready.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Yeah, forty is young, Matt is young.
• 14:28
  Speaker 4: You're not ready and you've got two.
• 14:29
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm definitely not ready.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Any did you guys have a game plan in terms
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: of when you guys did cross that line you have
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: a relationship for a period, I'm assuming it would have
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: been secretive. Yes, did you say this is the point
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: that we will then announce it, because obviously you don't
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: want to. You don't announce it, and then you guys
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: break up and you're like, fuck, we went through all
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: of that for nothing.
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: And I think Lucas has a cautiousness because of what
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: he's grown up with him having a mum who has
• 14:58
  Speaker 3: a bit of a profile.
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: I think is that he's just kind of reserved.
• 15:01
  Speaker 3: And so we didn't want to talk about it at
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: the office when we went, well, it's not it's not relevant.
• 15:05
  Speaker 3: And weirdly, our work doesn't really have a policy because
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: it's mostly women. This is not an issue that they've
• 15:09
  Speaker 3: had because it's there's not a lot of men to
• 15:11
  Speaker 3: and every man who doesn't to the office leaves either
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: married or engaged to someone.
• 15:15
  Speaker 4: In the right place.
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: Ply, But I remember we're at a cafe like early
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: one morning before work and someone from sales and I
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: love her, but she saw us, and she saw Luca
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: lean over and kissing, and she ran into the office
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: and was like, I have just seen something, and she
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: was yelling at as like announcing it to her team.
• 15:41
  Speaker 3: And one of the girls in her team is one
• 15:43
  Speaker 3: of my best friends from school. So she's sitting there
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: going because she did know, and she was sitting there
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: and she goes, Luke just does that. He's a very
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: affectionate person, and he kisses me on the head.
• 15:55
  Speaker 4: And everyone was like, really doesn't sound.
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: Exactly yea, everyone from that moment, because I'm assuming your
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: friend told you.
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: Yes, she told me, and so there were whispers and
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: then we kind of went, all right, we should I
• 16:10
  Speaker 3: think people in the team started to know, and then
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: it probably caused a few issues because there were people going,
• 16:15
  Speaker 3: you know, is there going to be priority for her.
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: Or liket doing half days and yeah, exactly right.
• 16:23
  Speaker 3: Say i'd picture story or something, and then that story
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: got green lip. Then it was sort of like, well,
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: it's of course her story was green lip. I think, yeah,
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: the boss's son, Like there was definitely an element of
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: that which ended up being acknowledged, like sort of nipped
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: in the bard. And I think that there were there
• 16:40
  Speaker 3: were different There was a Melbourne office and there was
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: a Sydney office, and I think there were assumptions about
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: what was happening and it wasn't necessarily happening.
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: But Luca and I just went.
• 16:50
  Speaker 3: All right, we put our heads down and we work hard,
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: and no one can take that away from you. Like
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: you do good work, then the work speaks for itself,
• 16:58
  Speaker 3: like you're not going to convince people to think something else.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: Do you remember the moment you had to tell me?
• 17:05
  Speaker 3: So?
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: Sort of we were.
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: We were hanging out on the weekend and I remember
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: we went to the beach and then Luca was like,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: let's go and get some towels because we've forgotten towels.
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: Let's go to my house and get towels.
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, you forgot I feel like
• 17:23
  Speaker 3: we've been at my house. I had my cozy and
• 17:25
  Speaker 3: maybe I didn't have a tower. That sounds like something
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: I would think of.
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: Luca, come on to dressed, my guy.
• 17:29
  Speaker 3: We're not going to go to your house on the
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: weekend and get a towel exactly. And then he was like, no,
• 17:34
  Speaker 3: I don't think my parents are there. And I was like,
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: all right, his parents aren't there.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: I'll walk in. I walk in, there's my boss.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: I'm standing there wanting a towel, hanging out with Luca,
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: going this is.
• 17:46
  Speaker 4: I feel like.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: Bath so.
• 17:51
  Speaker 4: And so.
• 17:51
  Speaker 3: I think from that moment, I remember speaking to me
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: or on the phone and her saying, this is not
• 17:56
  Speaker 3: going to.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: Cost you a job, like, but don't break my.
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: Like You've got your position here, you got your role.
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: On the podcast. If you and Luca break up tomorrow,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: you're not going to lose your job. Don't worry about that.
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: Don't let that be a factor.
• 18:09
  Speaker 2: H Hopefully she wasn't gasline.
• 18:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah, well we don't know, do we know? Because I
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: never dumped him.
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: But yes yet yet Yeah, didn't have any impact. The
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: letter that Mia had openly written about how tough it
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: was as a mom to say goodbye to your son.
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: Had that played on you at all?
• 18:25
  Speaker 4: It was funny because I think that she talked about
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: that on the podcast.
• 18:28
  Speaker 3: And it's always funny because I'm sitting there like or
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: we've been on the podcast and she's cried because she's like,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: my son's.
• 18:34
  Speaker 4: Moving out, and I'm like with me.
• 18:39
  Speaker 3: Dynamic, you know, sometimes we talk about relationships or sex things,
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: and it's just sitting there.
• 18:43
  Speaker 4: With your mother in law and you're like, can't relo.
• 18:46
  Speaker 4: It's just like it's.
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: The weirdest, it's the weirdest dynamic, but for some reason
• 18:52
  Speaker 3: it totally works.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: So we've just been really, really honest about it.
• 18:56
  Speaker 3: And I know that she had a lot of big
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: feelings even when when I was pregnant, like she was
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: going to become a grandmother and that's like, and she's
• 19:04
  Speaker 3: quite She's only in her early fifties, so for her,
• 19:07
  Speaker 3: she's like, I'm not ready to be an Anna, Like
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: it's dead. Yeah, very interesting to nut out at work.
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: So then who spearhead the conversation about when you would
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: have or when you would try for kids.
• 19:20
  Speaker 3: Well, I was I would have been happy years before
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: Luca and we would talk about it and go, all right,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: let's say I'm ready at thirty and he's going, I'd
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: like to wait a couple more years. Would go, right,
• 19:32
  Speaker 3: let's start trying at thirty one, and then of course
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: you get to thirty one, you've got a few things on,
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: and then you get to and then he proposed when
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: we were overseas, which was really exciting. He would have
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: been one of the first in his friendship groups to propose.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: Can we have the proposal story quickly?
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: Oh?
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes.
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: We were in Martha's vineyard and we were walking along
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: a beach and Rory Luca was like, let's get a photo,
• 19:58
  Speaker 3: which was a first He's never won on a photo
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: in his Whole Life giveaway and Rory Claire's husband was
• 20:06
  Speaker 3: holding the phone and then Luca knelt down and I
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: was like, what are you doing, and then realized that
• 20:12
  Speaker 3: he was filming it and that it was a proposal.
• 20:14
  Speaker 4: But I'd had a few a few days before.
• 20:16
  Speaker 3: I'd picked up his jacket and said it had got
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: a bit cold and put my hands in the pocket
• 20:20
  Speaker 3: and thought I felt some AirPods. Took my hands straight
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: back out. But then when Luca saw me wearing the jacket,
• 20:25
  Speaker 3: he lost his shit and was like, don't chake my jacket.
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: I was like, whoa, I should break up with him?
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: And it turns out that was the ring and I
• 20:35
  Speaker 3: just didn't notice. So yeah, and then we were engaged
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: and fell pregnant accidentally, and I discovered one evening when
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: he was out and he walked in and I had
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: like half a block of chocolate in my mouth and
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: the pregnancy test just sitting there and he was like, ah,
• 20:59
  Speaker 3: so it was a bit because I think we had
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: a wedding date set. I was writing a book, you know,
• 21:05
  Speaker 3: we were renting a tiny apartment and.
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: It was just like the Red time.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it was like a shock, but in the moment
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: we both knew that it was going to be the
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: right time. But it was a real shock. You go
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: through some really complicated emotions when it's a shock. I
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: think it's like it's not as simple as excitement. You
• 21:24
  Speaker 3: kind of have to recalibrate what the rest of your
• 21:27
  Speaker 3: life looks like in an hour.
• 21:29
  Speaker 4: Yeah, confronting.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Do you remember the time you broke it to me
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: that she was going to be a grandmother?
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: I had Actually we were doing a tour of Out
• 21:38
  Speaker 3: Loud when I was about eight weeks pregnant, so I
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: wasn't telling anyone yet. But we went to dinner after
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: one of the shows and there was wine and Maa
• 21:46
  Speaker 3: tried to pour me a glass and I said, no, no,
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: I don't feel like it, and she said, what are
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: you pregnant? And I was like it was like, I
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: can't tell you now that you're a grandmother. I was like, no,
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: I'm just not feeling well.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: You shouldn't ask him enough.
• 22:02
  Speaker 3: And then a few weeks later, I think that we
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: did it with maybe it was Mother's Day, maybe it
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: was something, and we gave her a card and it
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: was like we gave her a card for something, and
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: she like didn't open it straight away, and we were going,
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: we think you should open your card, and then she
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: read it and it must have said to Nana or
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: something like that, like it had something on it, and
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: I just remember her face being like, oh my god,
• 22:28
  Speaker 3: like it was such a shock to her and Jason
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: like they were not expecting that, because I think when
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: the wedding was happening, it was like you were assuming
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: it was going to happen, yeah, and they were both like,
• 22:39
  Speaker 3: oh my god, what the hell.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: So, yeah, you've spoken quite a lot about the fact
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: that pregnancy for you was quite difficult for those who
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: aren't familiar. Why was it so tough?
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: Oh it was a shit, shit time. I got.
• 22:54
  Speaker 3: I didn't know this, but if you are on anti
• 22:57
  Speaker 3: anxiety or antidepressants, really any medication then and during pregnancy,
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: your blood volume increases and it dilutes any medication that
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: you're on. So suddenly it was like I wasn't on anything.
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: So I've been on anti anxiety medication for ten years,
• 23:11
  Speaker 3: and it was like I'd gone off that cold turkey.
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: So I was probably from I'd say the second I
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: felt pregnant, I just did not feel like myself. I
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: felt really weird. I felt foggy, I felt anxious. I
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: couldn't see the future. And then it got worse and worse.
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: And I think that there were also environmental factors. I
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: was working too hard in that I felt as though
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: my life ended when that baby came out.
• 23:37
  Speaker 4: I thought, you'll never work again.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: You've got till that date to do everything you've ever
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: wanted to do in your career. So I was finishing
• 23:47
  Speaker 3: a book, I was writing an episode of a television show.
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: I was recording five podcasts, six podcasts a week.
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: I was going to Melbourne every week for the project.
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: It was out of pat I look back and go.
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: I was flying at thirty weeks thirty six weeks pregnant
• 24:06
  Speaker 3: to Melbourne for a day.
• 24:09
  Speaker 4: And wondering, yeah.
• 24:12
  Speaker 3: All the time, and wondering why my body was just
• 24:16
  Speaker 3: And I got married, moved house, all of those things
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: while pregnant, and I just tried to fit too much
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: in and completely burnt out, and I was, oh, it
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: was like I was underwater.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: I was in a dream. I couldn't feel anything. I
• 24:31
  Speaker 4: was totally numb.
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: Were you communicating this to Luke or anybody else?
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 24:36
  Speaker 3: He ended up actually contacting my obstetrician and midwife and
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: just being like, we.
• 24:43
  Speaker 4: Do something about this problem in the house.
• 24:46
  Speaker 3: And they were fantastic, and I saw a really good
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: psychiatrist who That was the Other thing is that from
• 24:52
  Speaker 3: about six months I didn't sleep, and not like I
• 24:55
  Speaker 3: had sore hips, like I didn't sleep. It would be
• 25:00
  Speaker 3: four days and I'd be like, that's the fourth night
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: of no sleep.
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: What was it that was stopping you from sleeping?
• 25:04
  Speaker 4: Do you think it was pregnancy? It's some near It
• 25:06
  Speaker 4: was hormonal.
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: So it was like my brain could not switch off,
• 25:11
  Speaker 3: and I started hallucinating. I would like get up and
• 25:14
  Speaker 3: be like, I can't drive to work. I'm it's like
• 25:17
  Speaker 3: I've had I'm drunk, Like I can't even stand up right.
• 25:21
  Speaker 4: So that was awful.
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: And the second the baby came out, I could sleep,
• 25:26
  Speaker 3: Like I slept better in the postpartum period than I
• 25:30
  Speaker 3: had in well four or five months before.
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: We talk about birth. When you saw the psychologist, you're
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: still pregnant. Yeah, was there any advice or was anything
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: that you opened up.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: About or yeah, he said, And I thought this was
• 25:42
  Speaker 3: really helpful that the rates of people acknowledging they're not
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: feeling right in pregnancy and addressing it and then them
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: avoiding postnatal depression are really high, like as in, it's
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: the best thing you can do. Flag it as early
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: as you can, even if in the first trimester you're like, oh,
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: I'm not feeling like myself, I'm feeling really anxious. And
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: a lot of people say I cried every day during pregnancy, Like,
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: go and speak to something, because a lot of.
• 26:05
  Speaker 2: A lot of women, I assume, early on in their
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: pregnancy would just think, Okay, this is just part of it, right,
• 26:10
  Speaker 2: instead of going, okay, there's actually something not wrong.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: Yes, And then what often happens is that they're actually
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: signs that can then lead to post natal depression. And
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: if it's untreated, then you can wake up a year
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: later and go, I just lost a year with my baby,
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: like because I just felt like shit and none of
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: that that cloud it was like a cloud and excite
• 26:31
  Speaker 3: like exciting, amazing things would happen and it was like,
• 26:34
  Speaker 3: I just couldn't.
• 26:36
  Speaker 4: I couldn't touch it, I couldn't access.
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: I could have won the lottery and I would have
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: been like, I can't muster a feeling about that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: You just felt like you couldn't connect with anything.
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, really like and I thought, did that help?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Did you lighten your workload?
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: Did that help it all?
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: No?
• 26:50
  Speaker 4: I didn't it would have though you should be a
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: psychologis No.
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: What helped was increasing the stage of medication was definitely good.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: And he gave me sleeping aids because the issue is
• 27:05
  Speaker 3: that they are very reluctant to give you anything that
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: will help you sleep in case it impacts the baby.
• 27:10
  Speaker 3: But good psychiatrists, you know, have all the research and
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: they know what's worth it, because yeah, it's not safe
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: to have a pregnant woman walking around who hasn't slept
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: if he's not good for anyone.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: So he was fantastic and really prepared me for that
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: next kind of and then trimester.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: Were you more anxious about then getting baby out or
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: were you looking forward to just closing that chapter on
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: being pregnant.
• 27:34
  Speaker 3: I was really anxious because I was terrified about childbirth,
• 27:39
  Speaker 3: so scared and thinking that I'd had a really traumatic
• 27:43
  Speaker 3: pain experience about eighteen months before, where I'd broken my
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: leg and had been stuck in the Northern Territory with
• 27:50
  Speaker 3: no pain relief for like eight hours, and I had
• 27:52
  Speaker 3: this thing of I can't be stuck in pain, Like
• 27:55
  Speaker 3: if I'm stuck and I can't have respite, then I'll freak.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: But I worked like really hard on that with like
• 28:04
  Speaker 3: a physio, and my obstetrician had.
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: A full plan, so a full birth plan.
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: Yeah, had a plan, and the obstrition said, I think
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: you should try for natural and see how it goes
• 28:14
  Speaker 3: and so. But the issue though was that I didn't
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: think it would be relief after I was so terrified
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: for I thought I'd still be stuck in their space
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: and that the birth might go really badly and then
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: I'm not sleeping still. I definitely wasn't feeling hopeful.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: You didn't feel like I was in a lot at
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: the end of the time.
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: No, definitely not.
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: I mean already like as parents will to be parents,
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: like Okay, well, what's going to happen next? What's going
• 28:39
  Speaker 2: to happen?
• 28:39
  Speaker 3: And all I saw and I don't know if it's
• 28:41
  Speaker 3: like an algorithm thing, but literally all I saw was negativity,
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: and I remember reaching out to Laura and saying thank
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: you for saying something positive, Like I just saw her
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: saying something about motherhood that was somewhat positive, and I
• 28:55
  Speaker 3: was like, you have no idea how important it is
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: for people to see role models and like people on
• 29:00
  Speaker 3: the other side who are not only talking about what
• 29:04
  Speaker 3: hell it is because pregnant women are not.
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: Okay, pregnant women are walking around.
• 29:08
  Speaker 3: Uncomfortable and tired being told that they're about to ender
• 29:11
  Speaker 3: hell Like that's not yeah, yeah.
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: That's great. How did you make sure that after the
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: birth of Luna you didn't get burnt out again?
• 29:19
  Speaker 3: I had decided to take a maternity leave, and in
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: my head it was like, oh, I need a month
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: and I'll get back, and in fact it was it
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: was me and it was Holly my co hosts, who
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: just went every woman does this. Every woman thinks that
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: they will need a month and that you don't you
• 29:39
  Speaker 3: need more. You like, take as much as you need,
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: but actually don't lock it in, like say you say
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: you're going to take three or four months, and then
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: if you need six, if you need twelve, then just
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: go with it.
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: I had a book that was due. Sorry, I think
• 29:58
  Speaker 4: I finished.
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: It at about thirty six weeks p something like that. Anyway,
• 30:02
  Speaker 3: it came out when I was five weeks postpartum. So
• 30:05
  Speaker 3: I did Q and A and I did the project
• 30:07
  Speaker 3: and I did I did a morning television thing.
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: I'm no memory of any of it, but I.
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: Actually felt fucking amazing. I felt like I was on ecstasy,
• 30:15
  Speaker 3: like I felt high.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: It was great because of the book.
• 30:20
  Speaker 4: No no, no, no no. I was sleeping like I might've
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: only been sleeping.
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: Four hours a night, but I was like, I got
• 30:26
  Speaker 3: to sleep last night and I and it was deep sleep,
• 30:32
  Speaker 3: and I felt like myself again. And this fog, this
• 30:35
  Speaker 3: grayness had just immediately lifted, Like when I gave back
• 30:39
  Speaker 3: to Luna. It was immediate, it just lifted. It left
• 30:42
  Speaker 3: the room and I haven't seen it since.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: Wow.
• 30:44
  Speaker 3: It was like unbelievable, unbelievable because the labor itself was
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: like sixty two hours. I didn't sleep for three or
• 30:51
  Speaker 3: four nights. I was a mess. But when she came out,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: I just had all of that and I was I
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: deserved some good luck, so I'm gonna like own that.
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: But like I had the come out life changing see
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: the universe, brain changing. I had all of that, like
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: total euphoria. It was like fantastic. Wow, it was so good.
• 31:13
  Speaker 3: And even the birth like it was great.
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: It sixty two hours, it was great.
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: Tired, but the episure were worked and I pushed her
• 31:21
  Speaker 3: out and it was and then I pulled her out.
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: That's right. He got me. He got me to put
• 31:25
  Speaker 4: my arms under like her arms and pull her out,
• 31:28
  Speaker 4: and it was amazing.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: Wow. Just seeing her silly little eyes was just like
• 31:32
  Speaker 3: you have a face, you have a face with features.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: On it, like what's the baby? Was she?
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: You know what?
• 31:40
  Speaker 3: I loved it, but I look at like especially those
• 31:43
  Speaker 3: early things, and it was it was hard. Like she
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: had like a dairy intolerance, so that was really hard.
• 31:47
  Speaker 3: So but she she would sleep, even if it was
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: for two hours at a time. And as I've understood it,
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: there are a lot of people who don't get that
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: that's when you go insane. So she would late pretty consistently,
• 32:01
  Speaker 3: like two hours, wake up, two hours, whatever, and then
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: I would just sleep in. Someone said to me, the
• 32:06
  Speaker 3: trick is to never get out of bed, and it's
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: so true. And it's like when you got a newborn
• 32:12
  Speaker 3: and they get up at seven and I see people
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: get up and put their clothes on. I'm like, no, bitch,
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: we'll get put them in the you go, yeah exactly,
• 32:25
  Speaker 3: And when you've got one, you can do it with two.
• 32:27
  Speaker 3: I imagine that that's but with one, it's like. But
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: she she's a very placid baby. She was very placid
• 32:38
  Speaker 3: and quite calm and like we just went for lots
• 32:41
  Speaker 3: of walks and stuff. But yeah, the dairy thing was
• 32:43
  Speaker 3: really hard because it was and we had failure to thrive.
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: She's putting on weight fairly.
• 32:49
  Speaker 3: To thrive is when you know how they leave a
• 32:51
  Speaker 3: certain weight and then they need them to put on
• 32:54
  Speaker 3: what they.
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so she was a little ish, not that little.
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: She just would not put on weight.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: And I would be her ten twelve times a day
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: and we'd go back and they'd be like, she's lost
• 33:04
  Speaker 3: seventy grams.
• 33:05
  Speaker 4: And that happened week after week.
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: And I was like, study her for like somemo ZM
• 33:08
  Speaker 3: pic shit because her metabolism, there is.
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: Some gene here you can quone.
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: Do I know what it was?
• 33:15
  Speaker 4: They still don't. Really. She was refluxy, like she's a
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: bit vomity. But I'm like, I think she just has
• 33:21
  Speaker 4: a fabulous metal.
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: When you're welcome.
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: It was really and I think I was trying to
• 33:31
  Speaker 3: feed and trying to feed, and then a lot of
• 33:33
  Speaker 3: people just said look through the formula. We had issues
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: with that because of the dairy thing. But once we
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: got onto the rice milk situation, then she started to.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Put it on. Once you figure out the dairy thing.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: Like yeah, and once you can go all right, I
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: think we've worked it out. She's on this particular formula
• 33:49
  Speaker 3: and we did a bit of mixed feeding. I think
• 33:50
  Speaker 3: I fed it for five or six months breastfed, and
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: then once she was on that got a lot easier.
• 33:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they get chunky pretty quick too.
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: You talk about that fear of like there is no
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: greater hindrance to your career than starting a family. Now
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: that you've been through that, those fears that you once had,
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: how do you view them?
• 34:13
  Speaker 3: What no one tells you is that what you want
• 34:17
  Speaker 3: will change. And that's what I can't have anticipated or expected.
• 34:21
  Speaker 3: It's like I kept looking at people and going where
• 34:25
  Speaker 3: she disappeared to, where's he disappeared to after having a family,
• 34:29
  Speaker 3: and thinking, oh, they fell out of relevance or something.
• 34:32
  Speaker 3: And now actually having spoken to those people and knowing them,
• 34:34
  Speaker 3: it's like they didn't want to do it anymore, Like
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: they just by their own volition, went, I want my
• 34:40
  Speaker 3: life to look different, and so yeah, I think I
• 34:45
  Speaker 3: thought that opportunities would dry up, and that's not necessarily happened.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: And it's such a small it's actually a way shorter
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: period in the scheme of things. You think it's going
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: to feel like forever. But people at work on attorney
• 34:58
  Speaker 3: leave all.
• 34:58
  Speaker 4: The time too.
• 34:59
  Speaker 3: I swear it's two weeks later. I walk back in
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, I don't even remember you being gone.
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: Back about eight children. I'm like, WHOA, Like it is.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Quicker than you think, and it's a reshuffling of your priorities.
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: But I actually think that's a brilliant thing.
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: Have your priority shifted?
• 35:16
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and they needed.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: To, Like I look at who I was during pregnancy,
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: totally unsustainable, probably not good value to my family or
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: sister or parents or husband. They needed they needed to shift,
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: because it's like if I bite off more than I
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: can chew, I am I'm just shit. I go two
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: jobs even It's like I think this at work, we
• 35:41
  Speaker 3: have these you know, brilliant producers and brilliant team. If
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: I can't turn up and be in a great mood
• 35:46
  Speaker 3: for those people, then don't turn up, Like and it was.
• 35:51
  Speaker 3: I think you can get a bit of a like
• 35:53
  Speaker 3: almost a victim mentality, being like I'm so busy and
• 35:55
  Speaker 3: it makes you very entitled.
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: That's no one's fault but your own.
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: You bid off more then you can do, and now
• 36:01
  Speaker 3: you're tired and you're irritable. So I feel as though
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: I've gotten a lot better at prioritizing. There's definitely been
• 36:09
  Speaker 3: things I've said no to which I've felt a little
• 36:12
  Speaker 3: bit sad about, but maybe for two minutes and then
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: I get on with it.
• 36:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Like with parenting, you mentioned there that your wants
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: change because you want change, and also the things you're
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: willing to sacrifice change, right, yes, because like you think,
• 36:26
  Speaker 2: before you had kids and someone would bring something to
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: you and you would you wouldn't sacrifice that for anything
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: at that stage until you've got or hang on a minute, yeah,
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: kid here, and I'm quite happy to sacrifice that now
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: for this.
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: Yes. So the big one for me is travel because
• 36:41
  Speaker 3: it's like I travel for certain TV stuff or podcast
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: touring or even book festivals. There's a lot of travel.
• 36:47
  Speaker 3: I could travel heaps if I wanted to. And now
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: I just look at it and I look at it
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: in my diary and.
• 36:51
  Speaker 4: Go, it's just not worth it. And it's not like
• 36:54
  Speaker 4: I actually don't.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: When I am away from Luna for a prolonged period
• 36:58
  Speaker 3: of time, I'm not my best and I miss her
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: too much.
• 37:01
  Speaker 4: It's for me.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: It's it's a selfish thing. It's not even that I'm
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: doing it for her. She'll be fine. It's me that
• 37:08
  Speaker 3: will feel sad about that.
• 37:09
  Speaker 1: You talked about your family. Just the way things worked out,
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: you and your sister were pregnant ahead of times. Was
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: that helpful of more of a hindrance?
• 37:20
  Speaker 4: It was really, it was really good.
• 37:21
  Speaker 3: So I fell pregnant by accident, and then she got
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: married in the February.
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: I got married in the March, and then I.
• 37:28
  Speaker 3: Was six months pregnant, and Claire kept saying that she
• 37:31
  Speaker 3: had a wedding present to give me, and I was like,
• 37:34
  Speaker 3: this was after March, so maybe May. She kept saying,
• 37:37
  Speaker 3: I've got a wedding present to give you, which is
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: weird because we don't give each other present. And then
• 37:41
  Speaker 3: we're in the car and she's like here and she
• 37:42
  Speaker 3: gave me a box and I opened it and it
• 37:44
  Speaker 3: was a pregnancy test and I was like a positive
• 37:46
  Speaker 3: pregnancy test. And I was like, how did you get
• 37:48
  Speaker 3: my pregnancy test? And she said, that's not your pregnancy
• 37:52
  Speaker 3: and I was like, oh, I see, so I was
• 37:56
  Speaker 3: about six months ahead of her. It was amazing. It
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: was like it was for even maternity clothes could just
• 38:02
  Speaker 3: all go to claes. I'm so glad my birth was
• 38:05
  Speaker 3: great and straightforward because she saw that and had not
• 38:10
  Speaker 3: a single fear and her birth was fucked, so it
• 38:13
  Speaker 3: could have been.
• 38:14
  Speaker 4: The other way around. She'd seen that and then she'd like,
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: I think that would have screwed us around.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure.
• 38:23
  Speaker 3: But everything from like toys to solids, like all the
• 38:27
  Speaker 3: things that you learn to have, you know, five or
• 38:30
  Speaker 3: six months between the girls has just.
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Been heaven have either of the kids mistaken you for
• 38:35
  Speaker 2: the other.
• 38:36
  Speaker 3: There is a comfort that each of them have that's
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: like unlike with anyone else. Like Matilda was her daughter
• 38:45
  Speaker 3: was with me yesterday and the way that she just
• 38:47
  Speaker 3: like reaches up to me. She knows I'm not her mum,
• 38:50
  Speaker 3: but she knows I'm a poor imitation, and sometimes she's like,
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: you look like.
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: Her, you have the same coloring.
• 38:56
  Speaker 3: I clearly don't smell the same or whatever, but she's like,
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: you'll do.
• 39:00
  Speaker 4: And they both have that Wow.
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: Interesting, who is the better mum? Me?
• 39:05
  Speaker 4: That would be me, who has a.
• 39:07
  Speaker 2: Better behaved child?
• 39:09
  Speaker 3: What's funny is that Clara and I so identical twins.
• 39:12
  Speaker 3: Those girls are technically half sisters genetically, because it is
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: like one person had a baby with one guy and
• 39:22
  Speaker 3: then that same person had a baby with another guy.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: Does that makes sense?
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm with you. Don't worry to forget about Ash.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: I'm locked in.
• 39:31
  Speaker 3: So half sisters technically, but they could not be more different.
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: Like they are total office.
• 39:43
  Speaker 1: Your wife Jesse, forget him, just podcast off, just you
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: and me.
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: I'll just sit here and shout out.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: Just such a.
• 39:54
  Speaker 3: Great example of like you introduce food exactly the same way,
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: you do exactly the same sleep schedule, You parent them
• 40:00
  Speaker 3: exactly the same way, and guess what, they're their own
• 40:02
  Speaker 3: people like you. Just parenting doesn't even matter. They come
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: out how they come out, and they just do their
• 40:09
  Speaker 3: own thing. That's what we've seen.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: One of the biggest steps I think with the young child.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: Is your first overseas trip, was it you took the
• 40:18
  Speaker 1: first trip.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: We went together.
• 40:20
  Speaker 3: So we had a wedding in Ireland and of course
• 40:23
  Speaker 3: we got mum and dad to come to come and
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: help us out.
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: That's a long way.
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: You have no idea how many months was Luna at
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: this point?
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: She was eleven months? Theory the worst stage remind.
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: Me because it's all blur. Are they crawling at eleven months?
• 40:39
  Speaker 4: They are crawling but not walking?
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: But they're mobile.
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of sliding.
• 40:44
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yep, can't lock into the wiggles yet.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's the issue.
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: So they can move. They're not having like they're awake
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: for too long. They can't be distracted fully by screens.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: So it's weird. No man's yes, of hell.
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: So we went over there. We just made so many errors.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: You just don't know what you don't know. First error,
• 41:08
  Speaker 3: moving around too much. You shouldn't move around too much place,
• 41:12
  Speaker 3: you just got to stay there.
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, we did Ireland, well, three different places in Ireland.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: Then why not go to the south of France?
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: Of course?
• 41:19
  Speaker 4: Why not?
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Have you guys ever thought about Kentik?
• 41:28
  Speaker 4: That's great?
• 41:29
  Speaker 3: So that was really hard time, Like the time zone,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: the feeling of being an island and having a baby
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: wake up at three am and you know the look
• 41:38
  Speaker 3: in their eye.
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: Where they go the day's begun. No, no, no, it hasn't.
• 41:42
  Speaker 4: Now it hasn't. And then it gets to four pm
• 41:45
  Speaker 4: that day and you're like.
• 41:47
  Speaker 2: Holy I'm in Ireland.
• 41:52
  Speaker 3: I'm in a pub, I don't know which way's up,
• 41:54
  Speaker 3: and your baby's so angry. I actually think Claire's age
• 41:58
  Speaker 3: five months perfect, perfect day to take baby to island.
• 42:02
  Speaker 2: Also, like breastfeeding still or stuff.
• 42:06
  Speaker 3: Carrier isn't crawling, but everywhere you go to sit down for.
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: Luna's not sitting in a hight chair having some lunch.
• 42:13
  Speaker 3: She's like I want to crawl and get into that
• 42:15
  Speaker 3: fountain and I'm like, no, where in this can't happen.
• 42:18
  Speaker 1: I hate to gloat, so just bear with me for
• 42:20
  Speaker 1: a second. Marley was just gone three months and we
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: went to London.
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: That's pretty good, genius. This is what everyone says. No, no, no,
• 42:29
  Speaker 4: this is a hack. This is a hack. You've got
• 42:31
  Speaker 4: to do it before about I reckon five or six months.
• 42:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 42:34
  Speaker 2: I met this couple in Bali once before I had kids,
• 42:36
  Speaker 2: and they had a five month old kid, and he
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: was like the best. He's like because on the booty
• 42:43
  Speaker 2: it's like not mobile. The Balinese women love this kid,
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: so you like, go sit down at the restaurant, give
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: it to a Balinese, have your walk. I think the
• 42:58
  Speaker 2: biggest thing I hate about traveling with kids or now
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: not so much because I mean they're just they do
• 43:04
  Speaker 2: want to get up and run around. It is what
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: it is. You expect that. The worst thing was traveling
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: with them young, and then when you get to the
• 43:10
  Speaker 2: end of the travel before you've traveled home and you're like,
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: I'm in a different country with this child, and now
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: I've got to get it all the way home.
• 43:17
  Speaker 4: And it's like, how is this going to happen?
• 43:21
  Speaker 3: Because the way it worked is we did that trip
• 43:24
  Speaker 3: and then Luca had to go back early for work
• 43:25
  Speaker 3: and I had to do the flight from the south
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: of France to Sydney with an eleven month old on
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: my own. That is the single hardest thing I've ever done.
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: It was she I just at one point I just
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: took her into the bathroom and we just sat in
• 43:39
  Speaker 3: the bathroom and cried.
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: I was like, I just need to cry in private.
• 43:41
  Speaker 3: But I was changing her nappy, and for whatever reason,
• 43:45
  Speaker 3: I had my period.
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: Tried changing a tampon with an eleven month old on
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: your hip because you can't put them down. No one
• 43:52
  Speaker 4: else is going to take her. So I'm like, I'll
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: put you on the phone.
• 43:54
  Speaker 1: I've never done that myself.
• 43:57
  Speaker 2: But I wouldn't put down on anlan bathroom floor. Well
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: make up things that literally like are in the quarantines.
• 44:03
  Speaker 3: Well even I was trying to get something out of
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: overhead and you know, you do weird shit when you're
• 44:08
  Speaker 3: on your own, your sleepscribe. So I was getting something out.
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: I think I put it on the thing of like
• 44:12
  Speaker 3: the floor of the plane.
• 44:13
  Speaker 4: Because the yeah, yeah, put her on the wing and
• 44:16
  Speaker 4: was like, sh'll be right.
• 44:17
  Speaker 3: And then this man walked in traveling on his own
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: and goes, well, now she's got every illness And I
• 44:23
  Speaker 3: was like, do you want to hold it? Like I
• 44:25
  Speaker 3: only have so many arms. I'm trying to get her
• 44:27
  Speaker 3: bottle or she's going to scream this plane down a
• 44:30
  Speaker 3: fun just I was like, it's good for immune system.
• 44:34
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just spit on it.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: It was so it was so hard.
• 44:40
  Speaker 3: And then because obviously they don't even have their own seats,
• 44:43
  Speaker 3: so they're just on.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that was really bonding.
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: I always always talk about I think you feel the
• 44:49
  Speaker 1: same ash that the newborn phase is so blurry. I
• 44:53
  Speaker 1: can't really remember in the first twelve months. This is
• 44:56
  Speaker 1: a hard question to answer, first twelve months. What is
• 44:59
  Speaker 1: the best part if you can remember, if anything sticks out,
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: and what is the worst part.
• 45:05
  Speaker 4: The best part is the slowness.
• 45:08
  Speaker 3: I loved the slowness of like getting up in the
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: morning and like making coffee and then just sitting there
• 45:14
  Speaker 3: and just watching I remember the first time I watched
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: her watch something else, Like you watch her Discovery Shadow
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: and you just feel like I could watch you.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: It's amazing.
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: Or even at night past a plane and they're like
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: plan and they do like their little point. Or even
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: at night I would get her up for like she'd
• 45:34
  Speaker 3: be out for her feet and you'd turn a lamp
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: on and you could just see her being like what
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: is that shadow? And like you watch all the synapses
• 45:40
  Speaker 3: connected it. Yeah. Oh, the moment Luna found a ceiling fan,
• 45:49
  Speaker 3: she just fell in love and she was like has anyone.
• 45:53
  Speaker 4: And then you look at it and you're like it
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: is pretty cool. Cool and you just lay there watching things.
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: Being like it's not right now.
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: So that was definitely the best thing, Like the way
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: it makes you look at everything differently, even like you
• 46:10
  Speaker 3: go to the beach and you watch them play with
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: the sand and water and everything, and you're like, yeah,
• 46:14
  Speaker 3: that's the literal.
• 46:15
  Speaker 2: You need the sand.
• 46:16
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, absolutely, so many firsts.
• 46:20
  Speaker 3: Sand and it's like you didn't need anything on your play.
• 46:26
  Speaker 1: Is there a phase that you think You look back
• 46:28
  Speaker 1: and you think, I would never want to go through
• 46:29
  Speaker 1: that again, but obviously.
• 46:31
  Speaker 3: You may, Like I think about that eleven month stage,
• 46:34
  Speaker 3: and that was really hard, Like I think her not
• 46:38
  Speaker 3: being able to walk, yet not being able to properly
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: kind of articulate herself. She's quite age, she's very cautious
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: and risk averse, but she's Clinging's not the right word.
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: But you know, you can't put them down, Like I
• 46:49
  Speaker 3: find that probably a bit a bit hard, But every
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: stage had its it's good bits, I think because you
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: see them developing and yeah.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: You mentioned and couldn't walk, probably couldn't articulate. They get
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: so frustrated and that now that you said that, that
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: reminds me of like that time when Oscar couldn't move,
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: couldn't really talk, and he was just frustrat because he
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: wanted to get up and move.
• 47:12
  Speaker 1: But you check less and you're like you're hungry something, yeah.
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you just you can't work. There's a there's
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: a stage where it's like if they're crying, all they
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: want is milk, really, and then there's a stage where
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: you're like, I think you're bored and like you.
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: Can't when complicated, I don't know how to entertain.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: You because you're like they either ship themselves, they need
• 47:37
  Speaker 2: to burp, they need to eat, and all of a sudden,
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: all these other emotions.
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: I found that quite a simple stage. I think like
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: that that part was easy. But but yeah, you get
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: to a new stage where the frustrations are new and
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: the grumbling is new, and you're just trying to work
• 47:52
  Speaker 3: it out.
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: This is going to go back to when you were pregnant.
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: I was just wondering if there was anything in those
• 47:58
  Speaker 1: moments where you were really ruggling that Luca did which
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: really helped you.
• 48:04
  Speaker 3: I think that him when you're in it, sometimes you
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: don't know how bad it is, or how dark it is,
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: or how clear it is that.
• 48:15
  Speaker 4: You're not coping.
• 48:16
  Speaker 3: Having that person do the admin I would never have
• 48:19
  Speaker 3: sent that email to my obstetrition and midwife like that
• 48:22
  Speaker 3: was him and then him being like, we're driving you
• 48:24
  Speaker 3: to the appointment and I'm feeling that script for you,
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: and like he was just very on that and I
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: think he actually at one stage went through my diary
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: and just went, we're not doing this and we're not
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: doing this, and like was really I was about thirty
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: five weeks pregnant and I got the flu Na remember
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: that got the flu and.
• 48:44
  Speaker 1: The and COVID.
• 48:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I got the hybrid and I just remember, like,
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: and you're coughing and your ribs are hurting anyway, Like
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: it was awful. And that week, like as soon as
• 48:57
  Speaker 3: that happened, he was like, all right, I'm doing all
• 48:58
  Speaker 3: the admint Like that's what he's really really good at.
• 49:01
  Speaker 3: I didn't have to think about anything.
• 49:02
  Speaker 2: You need someone to take charge to that mind.
• 49:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I didn't even have the energy to
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: cancel my week like he was.
• 49:08
  Speaker 4: He was very very good like that.
• 49:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah sounds good, sounds great.
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah he is. He's very very good.
• 49:14
  Speaker 3: And he's such like to watch his relationship with Luna,
• 49:18
  Speaker 3: like that's one of the greatest joys.
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: They are best friends.
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: How would you describe him as a dad?
• 49:25
  Speaker 3: He is like, I can't imagine him not being a
• 49:29
  Speaker 3: girl dad like, because that's what he he is. And
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: our dog Chile is also a girl, so he's just
• 49:34
  Speaker 3: like but Luna is him as a child, and he
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: he knows, like he'll get up every morning and he'll
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: talk Luna through her day because he's like, I remember
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: like and this as a kid, I needed to know
• 49:47
  Speaker 3: that what time I had swimming and who was coming
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: to visit, that I was going to have this. And
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: they are identical, like lucas a very ordered, tidy person,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: and Luna will go and pick up a wed ex
• 50:00
  Speaker 3: and start like just cleaning them, and I'm like, I'll like,
• 50:05
  Speaker 3: go upstairs and I've left something at the bottom of
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: the stairs and she'll point at it, like that'll be
• 50:08
  Speaker 3: pierced if you don't bring that. She's just yeah, they're
• 50:14
  Speaker 3: so so alike. But I think about who I dated
• 50:18
  Speaker 3: in my twenties and had some awful people I dated.
• 50:22
  Speaker 3: But there have been moments at three am when the
• 50:25
  Speaker 3: baby's sick or the baby's crying or whatever, and I've
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: watched Luca get out of bed and I'm like, that's
• 50:31
  Speaker 3: the mark of a good husband, like it were any
• 50:34
  Speaker 3: of those the type of man who would have got
• 50:35
  Speaker 3: out of bed.
• 50:36
  Speaker 4: No write this down.
• 50:38
  Speaker 3: Yet, like that's to Yeah, the person who will like,
• 50:44
  Speaker 3: you know, drop everything and jump go to the hospital
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: because we need to or whatever like that's been.
• 50:51
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And you don't know how someone's going to be
• 50:53
  Speaker 4: as a dad to you.
• 50:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned me. I was saying, I'm too
• 50:56
  Speaker 2: young to be a granddad. How is she adapted?
• 51:00
  Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, like the best grammar in the world.
• 51:03
  Speaker 4: She is.
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: They have fridays that they have together, and she has
• 51:07
  Speaker 3: like she's got her this like a baby kitchen, like
• 51:11
  Speaker 3: one of those times where they.
• 51:12
  Speaker 4: Like make the eggs and stuff.
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: No real heat.
• 51:14
  Speaker 3: No, they have like their own activities and their own
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: books that they read, and like, you know, me is
• 51:24
  Speaker 3: very into clothes and I could not Luna would wear
• 51:27
  Speaker 3: a potato sack every day for up to me.
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: But she comes home and these two tu's with.
• 51:31
  Speaker 3: Like like just dresses her up and they love it together.
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they're just best mates.
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: It's funny when you see grandparents form their own relationships
• 51:39
  Speaker 2: with you. Yeah.
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And at first you have to be like she
• 51:42
  Speaker 3: likes this, and then by the end they're telling you
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: and I'm like, oh, I didn't know she.
• 51:47
  Speaker 1: Liked the today.
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's like it's funny when you watch it
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: from the outside looking in, just like the little inside
• 51:58
  Speaker 2: jokes that they have.
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: Yes, and even like obviously I met my father in
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: law when he was my CEO, Like he was an
• 52:05
  Speaker 3: intimidating you take him very seriously, highly intelligent man, right
• 52:09
  Speaker 3: like he is a business guy, very smart.
• 52:13
  Speaker 4: And now I see Luna be like she calls.
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: Him butter, I don't know, just to like insult him,
• 52:19
  Speaker 3: Butter sit. He goes and sits. And then the other
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: day she goes, who we bump them and just to
• 52:26
  Speaker 3: like make fun of him or whatever, and to watch
• 52:28
  Speaker 3: him just piss himself at some of the things she says.
• 52:30
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, there's no one in the world that
• 52:32
  Speaker 4: could speak to.
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: Him like that, and yet she gets away with us
• 52:35
  Speaker 3: like she has him tied around her little finger. And
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: it's like the loveliest thing to watch because I don't
• 52:41
  Speaker 3: think that men prepare for it like women do, especially
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: like my dad and my father in law had no
• 52:47
  Speaker 3: idea how their lives would change. The grandmothers knew they
• 52:51
  Speaker 3: were prepared for how much they were going to love
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: these babies.
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: And it's funny with the granddads, how much how much
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: love there is there right like it with a no
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: prep and then all of a sudden they've got a
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: grand especially a granddaughter, they're like, oh, they just they
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: turn into a different person. I turned into a different
• 53:11
  Speaker 2: person when I had a daughter. And then like, I
• 53:14
  Speaker 2: can see my dad with my daughter, and it's like.
• 53:20
  Speaker 4: Where is this more there was?
• 53:23
  Speaker 3: Dad was over the other day, like chasing Luna around,
• 53:26
  Speaker 3: because at first they're apprehensive, especially girls.
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: I think around grandfathers, maybe there's a bit just a
• 53:31
  Speaker 4: bit of apprehension and whatever.
• 53:33
  Speaker 3: And now Luna's just fallen in love with dad and
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: he was chasing around the house and then he left
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: and Luna goes, oh, man by that was just like
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: and I was like, I might not tell doubt about
• 53:45
  Speaker 3: the old man comments.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: And the podcast on a question, which is when Luna
• 53:53
  Speaker 1: is all grown up, she's no longer living at home,
• 53:55
  Speaker 1: what is the one thing you would want her to
• 53:57
  Speaker 1: remember about the house that she grew up in.
• 54:00
  Speaker 4: That is such a good question. I think.
• 54:05
  Speaker 3: I just I want her to remember that we had
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: a lot of fun. But most of all, I want
• 54:13
  Speaker 3: her to remember that whoever she was, whoever she was
• 54:16
  Speaker 3: first thing.
• 54:16
  Speaker 4: In the morning, or like you know, when she was.
• 54:19
  Speaker 3: Two or six or twelve, was just enough, like her
• 54:22
  Speaker 3: parents loved her, regardless of whatever results she brought home
• 54:26
  Speaker 3: from school, whatever she ends up.
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: Doing with her life. It's like.
• 54:31
  Speaker 3: I remember someone a lot wiser than me once saying this,
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: It's like the world is where you go to challenge
• 54:36
  Speaker 3: yourself and get rejected.
• 54:37
  Speaker 4: Your house is where you go for unconditional love.
• 54:40
  Speaker 3: Like that's where you go, where you go no matter
• 54:42
  Speaker 3: what I do, what I say, these.
• 54:44
  Speaker 4: People love me.
• 54:46
  Speaker 3: And I just want her to feel that, Like I
• 54:49
  Speaker 3: don't think you can say I love you enough to
• 54:52
  Speaker 3: a child, and you know she hears that so much.
• 54:56
  Speaker 3: So I want her to just go into the world
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: with that confidence and then take the risks outside.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Very good, Jesse.
• 55:05
  Speaker 1: Thank you so much for jumping on the podcast, and
• 55:08
  Speaker 1: I do have to say, because we will give you
• 55:10
  Speaker 1: a great spiel of the intro, it's amazing what you've
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: achieved in media, So a huge well done from Ash
• 55:16
  Speaker 1: and myself, and also for being such an amazing mom.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you. You know what I love more than anything? Yes,
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: I love it. Your pants are.
• 55:31
  Speaker 1: Also it's nice to talk to someone who was just
• 55:34
  Speaker 1: so intelligent.
• 55:35
  Speaker 2: You're like, what do you mean? What do I mean?
• 55:39
  Speaker 1: You're very smart? But I mean, hey, none of us
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: went to university.
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: Did you finish school? Yeah? No, no you didn't. Ye.
• 55:48
  Speaker 2: We didn't even lie about it.
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: We just spoke to a best selling author. Ash, we've
• 55:52
  Speaker 1: got a book, kid's book. Us in a different league.
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: Let's admit it.
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: Okay, I'll let that one slide. If you've enjoyed this episode,
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: please like, share, review, leave a little star review.
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: I'm not even going to say please. I'm just going
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: to say, do it pretty please, do it right now?
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: Actually that's mean, isn't it pretty?
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: Please? Yeah?
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: It would be. It would be nice. If you haven't
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: subscribed to us, just tap that subscribe button or else.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: That's that's a bit threatening. Okay, how can I make
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: it softer? We would appreciate it. That sounds really like condescending,
• 56:28
  Speaker 1: doesn't it just?
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: I would really appreciate it.
• 56:31
  Speaker 1: Go going, go, go, you yank you going left to
• 56:34
  Speaker 1: review right, also follow us on social media. Two doting
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: dads across TikTok, Instagram and of course they're Facebook. Let's
• 56:42
  Speaker 1: Go Bye. Two Doting Dads podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians
• 56:52
  Speaker 1: of country throughout Australia and the connections to land, see
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: and community.
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: We pay our respects to their elders past and present
• 56:59
  Speaker 2: and in that respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestrate Islander
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: peoples today