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#375: The Diabetes Cure Debate - Are We Actually Curing T1D? · The Healthy Diabetic

• 0:15
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_03: This is episode number three hundred and seventy-five of the Healthy Diabetic Podcast.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: I am Coach Ken.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: Joining me as always is my good partner and T1D partner in crime, Graham Hubbard.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't know much about our story, we are two type ones with almost 50 years of lived diabetes experience, and we hope to inspire you to think differently about how you are managing your condition.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_03: Before we get started, please remember that nothing that you hear on this podcast should be considered medical advice or otherwise.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_03: Please always consult your medical team before making any changes to your diabetes management.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_03: Graham, what's up, man?
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_03: How are you doing?
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: You celebrated two decades of diabetes, right?
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_03: I'm on 18.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So we are literally.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, this is the start of year 19, I believe.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: We are literally at 50 years.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Then we you said, I thought you usually say over 50 years.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: You said almost 50 years, but I think you're right.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: We have we are we are just on the cusp together of like 49 months, something like that, which is crazy.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because what I was oh seven, right?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_03: So 2012.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was you were 07, I was 94.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I was 94.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's 32 plus eight plus eighteen or nine.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: 32 plus 18, dude.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's 50 on the crazy on the dark.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: Crazy we didn't make it set, yeah.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Huh?
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I yeah, I that's what I thought.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_03: I'm working on year 19.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because June, basically June would have been the start of year 19.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely, definitely celebrate 20.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I remember 20.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like 20 was a big number for whatever reason, man.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_03: Why was 20 a big number for you?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: I thought about this recently.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I was telling somebody that bless you, that I was married 11 years, and in my head, I was like, it's never gonna sound cool until it's it's you gotta get out of the teens.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like once you're 20 years of something, then you're like, all right, we've been married for 20 years.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's dope, right?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Or I don't know, I don't think you're old when you're 20.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of 20-year-olds think that are old and they're mature and shit like that, right?
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: But that's a good question.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: But I I do think 20 years lived with something is that's an accomplishment.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or a habit, like a habit that you've always done, whatever exercise and job, the same career, you know, I'll never forget people going to college and changing their career three times, type of thing, you know.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like you really don't know what you want to do at that point.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: So Yeah.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you ask why?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think it'll just be another day for you?
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like it will.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: I'll probably forget about it.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'll probably forget about the fact that at 20 with it, and I've got 20 years after this.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, because it'll be two more years before I get oh no.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it'd be two more years before I get through full 20.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: But that that's the great thing about a calendar, is you write it down on a calendar because you do forget, and then you see it, and you're like, you know, all right, I'll take a second.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's like it's just one happy birthday.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's like you get a fucking birthday every year.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's not yeah, it's not special, but you know, when it's on your calendar, you're like, oh, yeah.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_03: But it is special, right?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_03: Your birthday every year because you're a year, I would say you're a year wiser.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, most of us are a year wiser.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_00: Whether you guys people for not wishing you a happy birthday.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: No, not at all.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: Not at all.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_03: They got busy lives.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: I got busy lives.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: I get for I I mean, it I don't always text people on their birthdays.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, the people that I'm around all day, like all the guys at the gym, all the girls, you know, the ladies at the gym that I work with, I'll text them every time as long as I have it in my calendar.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'll text them every time their birthday comes, you know.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: The one thing I didn't do this year is I didn't text a group when in what June?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, June, when the gym's birthday was.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone was like texting back and forth.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'll get to it later, and I completely forgot to text.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: But the worst is if you're face to face with somebody and you know their birthday, and then you're like, oh my god, dude, I come like, or it's you know, a few minutes pass, and you're like, oh shit, dude, that's right, you know.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm usually pretty good at my brother and my parents and Kelly.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, actually, not my parents, but I'm usually pretty good with my brother.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_03: And last year, or this year, I think I forgot.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_03: So I texted him like the next day, and I'm like, dude, I'm so sorry.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_03: He's like, dude, it's totally fine.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we're spending a lot of time right now because this year I turned 40, my mom turned 70, and then next year, my wife turns 50, and my daughter turns 10.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: So we're having like these milestones, and we're talking about going to different places and like making a big deal out of it, which is not something I've ever done, but I did that like this year for my 40th.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: And as we're talking about that, I yeah, you you should write it after this podcast, write it down and try not to think about it until the day pops up in a year from now, and you're like, damn, you know what?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_03: You know, all but here's here's the caveat to that, right?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you've asked me this before.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: Do you remember the exact day?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, yeah.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't, I don't.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was really traumatic for me, though.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was, you know, it was a bad day.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: It was traumatic too, but I I don't rem I literally don't remember the day.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_03: I remember it was the very beginning of June.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, I mean traumatic in the literal sense of like when I checked into the hospital, they had a lot of problems finding my things.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like it was uh like I it still to this day makes me like white in the face because I was just like a little kid, and I don't know if you've ever done this, but like if you if they cannot find a vein in your hand, like they have no choice, but they gotta do it.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: They'll turn off the lights and they'll put a flashlight under your hand, and like we were at that point, like I'm I'm hyperventilating, I'm eight, I'll just never forget that day.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And it was all like, hey, we're doing this so that you could check into the hospital for the rest of your life, use more needles and shit.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And like they're like, Yeah, you're here for like a boot camp and training.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, What the fuck, dude?
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, mine was a little bit more I mean in that sense.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I've always made the point, it was also weeks before my birthday, and when you're nine years old, your birthday matters a lot, you know.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: All right, let's get into this because I have a question.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna ask you a question this time.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: You always ask me a question, and we get get things to get things rolling.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna ask you a question today to get things rolling.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_03: And this goes along with a lot of things that we've heard in the diabetes space, diabetes community, things that are happening, research, all that, you know.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_03: Can can type 1 diabetes be cured?
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: Not necessarily like, I'm not saying like, can it be cured right this second, because we know we don't have the technology yet.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: But if and when there ever is a cure, a cure quotation marks, are we actually curing type 1 diabetes?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is a I think this is a this is a conversation I've seen go around by other medical professionals, people in the health, health and wellness space, color coaches, people that are living with type one.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's on like both sides of the of the spectrum.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm I'm curious to hear what you think.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like if we if we technically don't need to take insulin anymore, have we cured type 1 diabetes?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I love it.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: A real quick question within a question.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Is this coming from somewhere?
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_03: Did you read something, or is this just something you thought about or I've thought about it because I've seen a lot of conversations on social media and and and in our in our community about it over the past couple years.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: And just I mean I mean this seriously.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Are you asking because you're curious, or are you asking because you already feel like you have an opinion on it and you've chosen a side?
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_00: Both.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_00: You're laughing, so I know.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, okay, okay.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: Both, both because, and and I'll say I'm not gonna give my answer yet, but both because my interpretation has changed, even just in the last year.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: All right, all right.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this will be funny to hear each other because I think I think mine has a lot, and I think it's evolved a lot, not only because of you, but because of my understanding of something like Alzheimer's, especially Alzheimer's.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you why, because I have a it's a I have a family member going through it.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my answer.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I said this on the show recently, and this took me 30 years of diabetes and a lot of maturity and growing up to realize this.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: Ken and Graham are never gonna get cured of diabetes.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: It would be, and this is my humble opinion, it is the it is the generations that will follow Ken and Graham, as in there will be a way to, whether it's a vaccine, whether it's something, there will be a way to ensure that it is eliminated from future generations.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: I say that because of something Ken just said that was a little bit leading, but you're thinking you're right.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Even if you and I were cured, I don't think we're ever going to be cured of like I I think I do believe not only because we are at the initial phases of whether we had a full-on uh pancreatal transplant transplant or one of these stem cell things that are happening, we are such at an early point of it that I do think we, Ken and Graham, who could easily live another 40 years each, I think it's really, really difficult.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's I don't think it's good to have your hopes up.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: I hate to say that.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it's good to have your hopes up.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I say that because I have an uncle and say he's 75, my aunt is 75.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: My uncle is taking care of my aunt who is coming down with early Alzheimer's, early dementia.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And this dude is like not listening to everybody.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's all his research, holistic, and it is she'll be better in like two or three years, and then we'll be able to focus.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like he has thought himself into a corner that obviously she's gonna be cured from this, she's gonna be okay, blah, blah, blah.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: And like I can't believe I'm gonna say this because I literally said this to my mom privately yesterday, but it doesn't matter because you don't know any of these people.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: But I said to my mom, I go, mom, in five years, everybody that you're talking about probably won't even be here.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're all 75, you know, they're all they're all older, they're all, you know, they've enjoyed a lot of people are living the 90 right now.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: People that we're talking about, though, you know, they they've drank and they smoke and they've, you know, they've had their fun, but they're also getting 75, 80 years out of life.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, my mom looked at me like, you know, that's exactly right.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the thoughts I've been having about my uncle in Puerto Rico.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like, it doesn't matter what you're doing in life, if your brain is somewhere else that's bringing you down or causing you harm.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like my mom just saw that uncle showed my wife and I a picture of him.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't really recognize, we see him monthful, like all the time.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: He does not look like himself, he looks like he's aged 10 years in the last year convincing himself that like you know, his wife's Alzheimer's is gonna get better.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I don't think that's good for you.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's good for you.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I had begun to learn that lesson, I don't know, with diabetes.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's my answer.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's my answer.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's come out a lot.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_00: It sucks to hear it's come out a lot of maturity and growing up, though.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I and I'm not saying you're immature for not believing it, but that's what I just said, like about my uncles.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I'm not doing anything healthy by keeping my hopes up.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_00: This is not my personality.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Just not my personality to be that way, you know.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: So um wow, yeah, that's a lot.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I think she's one, we can keep talking, but I want to hear your answer and then we'll keep going.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, that's a lot to take in, right?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because you have you you said a couple things that are very impactful and powerful there.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_03: One is even if a pancre some type of pancreatic transplant that's better than what we have now, or stem cells, or something that's going to allow you not to have to take synthetic insulin anymore, like your body's producing it in whatever way that is.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: That is that really the uh an actual cure to type 1 diabetes.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then you have the other aspect that you're talking about, which is the hope piece.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_03: And hope helps drive people's decisions, hope helps keep people sane, hope helps keep people in a state where they want to take care of themselves, helps to have that be a very impactful thing on our life when they have when you have hope, especially if you are someone that's listening, that you're just you're just having a tough time, not just with diabetes, but but with life.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_03: Things happen in our lives, and you know, the situations are hard to get through and hard to take.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that those two things that you mentioned are very impactful and very curious.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: I would not have thought that you would have gonna say that.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: Saying that, my perspective I want to talk about hope first.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_03: My perspective is I have so much hope for the future of type 1 diabetes and all of us who are living with type 1 diabetes and those who will be diagnosed at a future date.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: The reason I say that is because of this, these trials that are going on and the research that's happening right now.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: I would call it the acceleration of the conversations around a possible whatever, again, quotation mark cure.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's completely different than we've ever had in the history of type 1 diabetes since it was discovered, or since we had the creation really of synthetic insulin and had some type of hope.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_03: It that hope is growing, and I think that's a really positive thing.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Graham, to what you're saying with hope, it's really important for people to keep their hope, but also be realistic.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe if you would have asked me this two years ago, Graham, I would have said there's no way I think that what Graham's saying with he doesn't think there's going to be an actual cure or us not needing to take synthetic insulin within me and him's me and his lifetime.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: I personally, dude, for the masses, think it's closer than we actually think.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: I 100% think that it could potentially be.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_03: We should we could potentially have something where we don't have to take synthetic insulin anymore within the next 10 to 20 years.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_03: I and I I think that's a real possibility.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: Real possibility.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_03: But again, only because of the Eladon trial that's going on right now.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_03: That trial shows unreal promise.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: There's there needs to be a lot that's gonna happen, especially on the federal level and insurance level.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot that still has to happen.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_03: But the medical piece to this, that's it's very promising.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_03: So that's the hope piece.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: I have a lot of hope for the future for type 1 diabetes.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: And not even just for a cure, but even for technology and for us and to and for us to have the ability to live more normal lives, have the ability to be able to use technology to live whatever life that we want, which you couldn't you couldn't really say, you know, 15, maybe 20 years ago.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_03: So the hope the hope piece for me is high for some type of cure.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I want to read you something that when I started hearing these conversations, I was like, oh my gosh, this makes so much sense.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the word cure.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: What does that word actually mean?
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, this is this is from Claude.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, this is from you know, Google Claude, from AI.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is so funny.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: These are the notes that I've been that's exactly what I'm writing down the talk to you about.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: So what does the word cure actually mean?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, go for it.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: The word the word cure.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_03: A cure is the complete elimination of a disease from the body, returning the person to the same physiological state they would have been in had the disease never a cure occurred.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_03: A cure, that's what a cure actually means.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: A cure means the disease is fully eradicated, no ongoing treatment is required to maintain health, the condition cannot return as a result of the same cause.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Normal biological function is fully restored.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_03: Now, with this cure or this thing that we're doing right now with the Elodon trial and a pancreatic transplant, whatever you want to call, not whatever you're gonna do to not have to take synthetic insulin anymore.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_03: There's a couple things that are worth note of thinking about with this concept of cure.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Let's look at the positive first.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_03: No ongoing treatment is required.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, if this Elodon trial comes to flourish, then we won't need to have any ongoing treatment.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: We won't need to necessarily have a CGM, even though it's probably good that we probably probably will still have CGMs.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: I would say maybe even 5, 10, 15, 20 years after this comes out to whatever cure is happening or gonna happen, comes out because it's gonna give us a bunch of data on, you know, is this treatment actually working?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Is this, you know, it what's what's going on, right?
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: So that's one thing that is on a positive note from using the word cure.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I think that there's interesting things to this.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: The one thing in this definition of a cure that really jumps out to me is that the body returns to the same physiological state they would have would have been in had they not gotten type 1 diabetes.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, that's physically impossible unless they figure out a way to re-stimulate the already current pancreas to secrete insulin.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right now, what they're talking about is stem cells, or right now, what Elodon is doing, they're using cadaver cells, putting them into the system, and that system works with the way the system is supposed to and creates insulin, and and now you don't have to take synthetic insulin anymore.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_03: If if that's the direction that we're gonna go with a supposable not have to take insulin anymore, then that that makes complete sense.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: But I think that the interesting piece to this is if you actually are gonna go by the definition of a cure, we as type 1 diabetics, and again, unless they find some way to stimulate the current pancreas that we already have and get it working again, we will never actually be cured of type 1 diabetes.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_03: We can live carefree because we'll have some type of synthetic or some type of foreign stem cells that's going to help with insulin production, which is a super cool thing.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_03: So it's like, in a sense, we're cured, but in a sense, to the definition of it, we're not really cured.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I thought this was a really interesting conversation to have because so many people are on both sides.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, okay, the Elodon trial is going to cure us, but oh well, you can't really get cured because it's not your own biological processes coming back to fruition and actually working the way that you're supposed to.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_03: Which I get.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, to me, I don't really care.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_03: If someone wants to say that they're cured and they're not taking insulin, like, cool, say it.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_03: I just I just thought it was interesting when I looked at the definition of what a cure actually means.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_03: That it's your body goes back to the way it was before the condition.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, okay, you ended perfectly.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: Ken, as we talk, Ken and I, we script nothing, but we'll text each other, and Ken's like, I talk too much, you gotta cut me off.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll have to have like a three to five minute, four-minute timer because at this point I got this many notes.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is the first thing I thought about, and it'll be the last thing I'm thinking, because I have to ask you this, and you kind of are saying it, but I want to hear your opinion.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: It is it is are taking pills, is that a cure to something?
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, if I was depressed and I'm taking SSRIs and I feel great, am I not depressed anymore?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: Did you know that?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Or, or this is a major one, people don't know this.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: In AA, there is never, there is never something called a former alcoholism.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_00: You're never a former addict.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: You are an addict who is not engaging in the thing that is causing you that disease.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So you're an alcoholic, and if you decide that, that's what AA is gonna tell you.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: You are an alcoholic for life, though.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you are thinking about, let me say that again.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: You are an alcoholic for life because of the exact definition of what Ken said a cure was.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: It was returning to the same state, which is Some reverse thing.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_00: So it's because it's in the news right now.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have you seen The Odyssey?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or you read it?
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_00: I've hated the Odyssey.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_03: You didn't like, did you watch the movie?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_00: Real quick.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: I hated it, but I read the book and I loved it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: And spoiler alert, it's called The Odyssey because of a guy named Odysseus who goes on a long journey.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Essentially, what brings him home is hope, is family, is is is that thought.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I will, I will get through this.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it takes him literally two decades to get home.
• 22:32
  SPEAKER_00: But he gets home to reunite with his family and be fucking happy again.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the term, the odd an odyssey.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: People know La Honda Odyssey.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's a journey.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's well, to me, my interpretation is exactly what said it's a journey of hope.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I talk shit about that, but you are right.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it is important.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: But this is my question to you.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: If we were living carefree, is that a cure?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, like, we don't have to do all the shit that we were doing and we're just taking a pill every day.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, is that a cure?
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it again, it just it defines it depends on how you define cure.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: If you would have asked me three months ago, hold on, stop, hold on, pause.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: Definition, right?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: This is my chance.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_00: This is my chance.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I also ask you this.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I also ask you this.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: If I got cured in 10 to 20 years, I've still had diabetes for 50 years, bro.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: So you're saying, oh, well, if you rooted on fucking Claude, you're not referring, you're not returning to the same state.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: But if I'm 60 years old, I'm like, I'm gonna have the best 20 fucking years of my life, dude.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_00: Even if I'm not sure, you know, even if I'm still going to an endo, even if like, you know, so I don't give two shits about semantics and definitions, like, you know, but I say that as the big thing.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_03: You would say that it's a cure.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: But you would say that if regardless of what type of cure, what type of thing, research, whatever it is that it is, you're saying that if we don't have to take insulin anymore, you are cured of type 1 diabetes.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna love my answer.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is gonna make Ken's Ken's skin crawl.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: If there's a vaccine, if there's a vaccine to eliminate it, then it's cute.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: So so then do you say the same thing if whatever research happens and you don't have to take insulin?
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just say it's not a vaccine.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_03: Let's just say it is a pill, or let's just say it is a transplant, or whatever their you know, stem cells, or that is that a cure?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_03: You don't have to take insulin anymore.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's a cure.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: My my point is if the next generations don't even have to think about it at all because they're eliminating it, that to me is a cure.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: But you're you're not gonna cure but you're not eliminating it.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_03: That's the other thing to this whole piece.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because people for the rest of the time are still gonna be type 1 diabetes.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: Vaccines are dead.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's what people understand.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_00: Those are dead cells of the exact same thing that has happened to the person.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's not.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it is you can talk about any vaccine.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: But okay, go.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Here's why I know that.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't have a medical doctor in that fucking department.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: It is not my job to know that.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: I I know and I trust and I see all the people that do.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what you're talking about.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what you mean.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_03: If you don't have a if you don't so life is about life is about research.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: Evolution is about research.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's science, science is about no, it's not wasting your time.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: How is it wasting your time?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Graham, this is where we this is everybody, if you listened to the last episode and you heard us ask at the end, like, do you like our bickering?
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: This is about to be a big bickering session.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: So here's this is where we disagree, okay, because I am I am 100% in the thought process.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: Regardless if I believe that something is good for me or not, okay, I am still obligated for me, me personally, I am still obligated to do my research.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: Here's the prime example, right?
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: And we're gonna we're not gonna talk about vaccines.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: We both are how are on the opposite spec ends of the spectrum of that.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: We don't know a lot about them, we're not scientists, okay?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: But here's what we can say.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_03: And this is why the research and you doing your own research on anything, an endocrinologist, food, exercise, coaching, like I don't care what it is.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_03: If you're going to involve yourself with something, do your research.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: There's three brands right now.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: I just did an episode about this, I think two episodes ago.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: So if you haven't listened to this episode of me bitch and moan and complain about these three, these three food companies that sold their brands to other companies that don't care about health.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_03: There's three companies that I predominantly follow, that I so much of the ingredients that I buy, so much of the food that I consume are from these three three companies, because they have always used avocado and olive oil outside of seed oils or other chemicals that inflame the system as you try to, as your as your body breaks it down, right?
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_03: So that more inflammation that you get, the more insulin resistance that you can get, the more sicker you can get, whatever.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_03: So these three brands, okay, boulders, primal kitchen, and siete.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_03: Siete being one of the one of the ones that I use the most.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_03: Siete, what, a couple years ago was sold to Pepsi.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_03: And I said two years ago, we'll see how this rolls out.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_03: Give it a couple years, and we'll see other chemicals showing up in the ingredients.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: And what did we find?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_03: Couple weeks ago, beginning of August, it is August 18th.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: I think that this article came out on August 5th, a couple weeks ago.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_03: There was a big research study that was published, or a big article that was published saying that these three companies, Ciette, Primal Kitchen, and Boulders, some of their products, all the products weren't in the article, but some of the products were.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_03: All three of these products, all three of these like brands, all have been using avocado oil and not vegetable oil or canola oil or inflammatory oils in the making of their products.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's labeled on the bags of their of their products.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_03: This research study comes out, or this study comes out, this article comes out and says that all of these, all of these companies, certain products, not all again, not all of them, were tested to see if they actually had avocado oil in them.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: 98% of all the products that claim that they are using avocado oil failed the tests.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: And that's just one example.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: We could probably find thousands of examples like this.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: This is why I come back to the research.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if that article would have never came out, I would have not been the wiser because I've been I did my research on the companies a while back.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: But now that this article is coming out, and now I'm like paying more attention because I know there's some shady stuff going on.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: You think about a soda company, they're trying to save money.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_03: They take over this multi, they took take over this great brand, and now they're just they're they're screwing with the with the way this these products are being made.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_03: Because they don't care.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: So because people that make products sometimes don't care about our health, we have to be food detectives.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: We have to be detectives in what we're doing.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: There's clothing companies that have been sued.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: Big athletic clothing companies that are being sued because they're putting specific chemicals in their clothing that are endocrine disruptors, that messes with hormones.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_03: So you have to do your research.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna know everything, but you have to do your research.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the same with the food that we're consuming.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: Not every single person is gonna have a sensitivity to seed oils.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Not every single person is gonna have a sensitivity to wheat or gluten or dairy.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: Heck, I've even seen people that I've worked with nutritionally in the past 18 years have sensitivities to chicken.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: Like they're eating chicken and they're having a highly inflamed, their system's just getting really inflamed.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_03: You have to do your research.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because what's on the face of everything that we that we take, we consume, we use in our body, we use it in clothing, we might not see the bad shit that's going on.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: So my argument will always be I'm a history major, why I despise the whole research thing.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_00: And Bobby's like, understand people what I'm saying.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not an idiot.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: I it's not like I just live my life without the internet and things like that.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_00: I research things, but research is misleading because people want validation.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going out there looking for other sides.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_00: You you you made a sorry to say this, Ken.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: You made a choice about something a long time ago and go out there and you you validate what you were looking to.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: You're not you're not listening to the things that are that are happening on the other side.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're not, you're, you're, you've made a decision.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: You've made a decision.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I hate to say this, but you've said it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: You have to do the research.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: I wrote that down.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: I I always think I'm gonna make a t-shirt that says you have to do the research, and then on the back of it, it's a clown walking away.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's like you're a like that's the most like like it's you're a clown, like or maybe it's like an advertisement for like a clown university or something like that.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because like that's the most classic, it's the most, and I'm can't I'm telling Ken right to his face, I love the guy, but it's that's my reaction to that is no, you must live your life.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're breaking it down to fucking avocado oils and blah blah blah, you are you are wasting your time.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And Ken knows my job.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: I don't talk a lot about my job, but this goes with the title of my job Time is Money.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're not making any fucking money, you're wasting time.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're wasting time, if you're wasting time doing extra things thinking you're gonna get ahead, like no, you're going lower down because you're wasting your time.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you are wasting your time.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I I don't know how else to say that.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: I I just like you can you can nitpick, you I feel like I'm an incredibly healthy person.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: You can come live here, live here with me.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: You can nitpick probably 50 to 100 things that are done by the end of the day.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, when do you know that?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Blah, blah, blah.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm gonna end on this statement, and this was a really hard pill for me to swallow, but I find it true.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: I do find it true that human, okay, there are 8 billion people in the world.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_00: Humans are dispensable for the greater good of humanity.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if you think I'm joking or you think it's funny for me to say that, what do you think the military is?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: The military is the few problems that Brandy've had, usually 18 that are like, I'll go fucking fight for the country.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that means I'm probably supposed to get blown up and killed so that more numbers of like deaths rack up to make it like, oh wow, now we've lost 50 people, 100 people.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's it, that's a war.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: We need to go out and fight this conflict.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: And humans, I'll say this again.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: In Ken, it I and I know you're you're probably such a good guy that you don't like hearing that.
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_00: Humans are dishumans are disposable in the sense that okay, you must say every car company knows that Tesla, they knew starting an electric car company, a lot of fucking people are gonna die driving a battery.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're driving a giant battery.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: They don't talk about that, but they know plenty of people are gonna die.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: People don't go on and get government contracts every day, not that their product is gonna kill somebody.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just see, I just saw a guy selling those e-bikes, you know, those electronic motorbikes that all the fucking kids are riding that go 40 miles an hour.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Whether it's for the for the good or the bad, yeah, I have I have no patience for anything on that side of humanity, or I don't I just I don't even know how we devolved into this, but yeah.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: So hold on.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I just want to make one statement and I'll ask you a question.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, the one thing that I would disagree with Graham on, I completely understand what he is saying about humanity is dispensable because we are, right?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: We are the powers that be, the people that are in control, whatever you want to call it, whatever you want to say, like we're dispensable.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you look at, you can see it from historical of the historical viewpoint of what's happened to the food system, what's happened to the government, what's happened to human beings in general, what's happened to medicine, what's happened to people with disease.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_03: You can see it.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: If you trace it back, you can see it.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: And the but the one thing that I would disagree with Graham on is that we can't make the same distinction between corporations that don't have our best interests at heart, governmental officials that might not have our best interests at heart, military who we don't even know.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_03: Like, they we we can't make that distinction back and forth.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: The only thing I would say to this is what what I think about when I think about research is what can what can I learn about that's going to better my existence and better my life?
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: Not everyone else's.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone else's is not my responsibility.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_03: Everyone else's existence, everyone else's lives, they're they're not my responsibility.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm responsible for me and only me.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, as a parent, I'm responsible for my kids.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, as a husband, I'm responsible for my relationship with my wife.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm responsible for me.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_03: And even my wife, we sometimes butt heads on certain viewpoints.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: And that's healthy and it's okay.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: Just like I constantly butt heads on viewpoints with Graham.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: But for me, the thing where where Graham's conversation or Graham's belief in that, where I don't align with it, is I'm not I'm not gonna put other perspectives of in of other individuals, other corporations, other things in the world.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: I can't control that shit.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: I can't control what a governmental official is gonna do about a policy that they believe in, whether it's a right or wrong thing.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: I can't I can't control what a a food corporation or a corporation is gonna do and what they're gonna put in my food system and how that's gonna make me feel, right?
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_03: As I ingest and consume that item or that product that I either really want to try or I enjoy.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_03: I can't control that shit.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_03: Only thing I can control is my own existence and how I want to live my life.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_03: Just like Graham.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: The only thing he can control is his own existence.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_03: Just like you listening.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_03: You can only control you.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: For me, I have made it my life's mission to try to live the healthiest and do the best I can for me to that's gonna have a big impact on my life.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_03: Because if I don't do that, how can I sit here in a nutrition conversation and tell someone else, actually, you can't, I don't think you should be eating X, Y, and Z, or actually you should eat X, Y, and Z.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_03: If I'm not doing the research and I don't have some level of understanding about what I'm saying, then it doesn't matter.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: But the difference is, is all the things I say about diabetes, about nutrition, about exercise, I've either experienced myself or I've done pretty significant reading, research on that specific topic.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_03: I'm on, I'm not gonna be an expert.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: There's gonna probably be holes in what I say, but at least I have an understanding of the topic and of the information.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_03: And then the other thing that Graham said, okay, which I think is a very important thing that he said, is that you have to look at both sides.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: And this is what pisses me off about politics.
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: So many people are one-sided.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_03: During the last presidential election, I looked at both sides because I was generally curious.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: I was curious.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted to know what both sides had to offer.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: And if I didn't do that, then I would be a hypocrite.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: I feel like I would have been a hypocrite of saying, well, this person's right, or this person's right.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you don't know what the other person has to offer.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_03: It's the same thing with these food companies, it's the same thing with medicine, it's the same thing with everything.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_03: If I don't try to look at both sides, I might sway one side or the other.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: One viewpoint might align more with me.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: But if I don't try to kind of listen to both sides, it we're all in a recipe for disaster because now we're all one-sided.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_03: And we don't, we don't have enough information from the side that we don't necessarily agree with to be open to a conversation.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's why I love these conversations with Graham, even though sometimes they're challenging.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_03: Right now I want to reach through his through this screen and and strangle the shit out of him, but that's okay.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_03: We don't have to, we don't have to be on the same page.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: It's okay that we're not.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_03: But we can sit here and have these conversations.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_03: He can tell me how he feels, and I can tell him how I feel.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_03: And it's the same thing with everything that we talk about.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_01: Go, go, go.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I just want to I want to say, especially as a compliment to you, I I obviously completely on not only do I understand, and I completely understand the idea of what you're doing, I really, really, really, really love it and respect you to the point where I've hung up this these calls.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think I actually did it.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: We had an intense talk about something we didn't agree on.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I spent days, bro, I went days coming to my wife, like, hey, I want to talk to you about something.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, like, this is how Ken feels, and this is how I feel.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And she would always say, bringing like a tear to my eye, she's like, you obviously love and respect Ken.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what else fucking matters?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_00: And like, it again, it like it tears me up, but it's true.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, it's like, nope, like this is what relationships should should be.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_00: And like, like if if I'm white and I see a black person and simply by the the like the color of their skin, I'm not willing to engage with them.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what the like what the fuck am I doing?
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it makes me emotional because Ken is white.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, Ken is the definition of like I I I guess is for me.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's not it's not that I'm mistrusting politicians or or this person.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I know that the one thing I was always said about life that you can never truly you'll never like want to admit it or truly admit it, but it is so true.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: Money drives everything.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: So Ken talks about like uh let's talk about the food real quick because I gotta go.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: The food industry.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's literally your ingredients on your box of little Debbies is fucking 9,000 things.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Guess why?
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's the cheapest way to make it.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: So whether it's food, it's a car, whether it's deploying the military, whether it's a vaccine, what are the cheapest ways of doing it so that people could, I mean, either get their dollar back or make money disgusted by, but I'm I'm like giddy about this.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: We might have to do uh, I might have to move my camera to show you.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm working on hydroponics at my house, bro.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: I got vegetables growing out small.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, like I'm we some we're I'm doing some really serious research about I've done a half cattle before, like, so those are the things that I'm doing that are like I'd rather research again.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_00: I wanna if I only do research, I want to take action.
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I'm gonna go fucking make a hydroponic.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you should see the the supplies in my house.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's wild.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: This factory, my daughter's having a blast, so yeah, but but when we talk about research, Graham, what we have to remember is research is done based off of enjoyment and what someone wants to learn about.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, lived experience too, but lived experience is part of that enjoyment, right?
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not gonna go do research and spend hours and hours and hours down a rabbit hole for something I don't really care about.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_03: To be more depressed.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_03: To be more depressed, yeah.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_03: You're right, you're right.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_03: But but you know, sometimes you do that, right?
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was depressing the shit out of me during the presidential election because I specifically saw one worldview side and I didn't understand why other people didn't.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: And I was trying to see both sides, but my own worldview came into play, right?
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_03: But I spent hours and hours on podcasts and listening, and but and it ultimately gave me enough information to make a decision that I felt comfortable and confident with of who I was gonna vote for.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: And that's that that's what I mean by making a dis doing research.
• 43:59
  unknown: Not
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: Going into a decision blind and saying, oh, well, this is what I've always done, or this is what Joe Schmoe down the street said I should do, or hey, this is what this politician said, or this is what this company is advertising.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: I saw an ad.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm gonna go with that.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_03: Like, we we need to do more research because at the end of the day, we are we are in charge of our own health.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_03: I personally believe that too many people trust the system and then wonder when they're 50, 60, 70, 80 years old, why they can't move, why they're having disease after disease, why they they're just their bodies falling apart because you've got a compounded amount of years off of being lied to or making poor decisions or whatever it is, right?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_03: So if you don't do your research on things, and again, it could only it could be 10 minutes of a re of research.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna read this article that I saw, that it looks really interesting.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's based off of something that I'm passionate about or bat something that I enjoy reading about.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna read this and see what this says.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: That's research.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's you doing due diligence.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_03: But know that you can't necessarily make a decision based off of one specific framework.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_03: That's how I think of research.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: I just think I'm putting on the spot, and I you might not answer me.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: If I paid you$250,000 a year, and your your job was your your title was borrowing researcher.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: So all you did was research shit that would you do it for$250,000 a year?
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I have a reason why I'm asking that question.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_00: Just say yes or no.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_00: So the answer is yes.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_03: So hold on, hold on, pause.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_03: So my my first gut reaction is no.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: I just said boring research.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't say the the money's great, but my first gut reaction is no.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: And it also depends on, obviously, this is hypothetical, but it depends on the research.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_03: But yes, yeah, no, no.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_03: My first gut reaction would be no.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my reason for asking.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: Here's my reason for asking you that question.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_00: If I was paying you$215 to re to be to do research after year after year, wouldn't you come to me and be like, wouldn't I come to you and be like, hey, you're the research guy who really knows everything about everything because you make a lot of money and it's your career and you're dedicated to it?
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_03: There's boring research though.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_03: People shit that people don't want to listen to.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: Listen, why wouldn't I talk to a doctor, a fucking killing who has researched that shit their entire life?
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't need to waste my time researching this thing.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because Graham.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_03: Go, go, go, go.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: Finish.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Finish your thought.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: Finish your thought.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: Listen.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I love about you.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: I genuinely think you're being honest, but I think anybody in their right mind would be like, you're an idiot.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: Who the fuck wouldn't do that?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: I wouldn't do anything for$250,000.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_03: No, you wouldn't.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: The other thing is, is like when people get in a bad situation in a bad situation and make money, money changes everything, bro.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Money changes everything, bro.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: Money, money doesn't money will not make you happy.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_03: It won't.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_03: It won't make you happy.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't see that.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: I never never said that.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_03: It can give you a pretty good life, but you gotta make you gotta make decisions.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: And when people the problem the uh the problem in this world being like, yeah, but the problem in this world, the problem in this world is too many people are getting away from their from their morals and their and their ethical views.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's the problem because of money.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: But that's also that's also that's the one that's the one that's the one person there's people that make bad decisions, those are criminal, bro.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: That you're that that's a critical thing.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's not criminals, dude.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: Are you serious?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: You're talking about I'm talking about politicians, I'm talking about the the food corporations, I'm talking about like governmental entities.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm talking about tons of we're we're talking about millions of people, dude, that make decisions based off of not based off of what their actual views are, but based off of money and status.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: If you're getting if you're getting paid by big bucks, you are the liability you are the liability, so it all works out.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_04: Well, but they are liable people because you could be liable and not forty thousand dollars.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_04: You could be I could be liable and only make forty-fifty thousand dollars.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what do you mean?
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: The money doesn't mean anything.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_03: But the money doesn't make a person liable.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_03: Anyways, we we got off on a tangent there.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_03: That's fine.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_03: Man, we got we got work to do in this world, people.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_03: We got work to do in this world.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's all I gotta say.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_03: We got work to do in this world.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: Boom.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: That you couldn't have said it, you couldn't have said it better.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think we'll ever not we will never not have to keep working on the world.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like there's I've said this before.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a finish line in life.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: If you have a goal, you there's not something waiting for you.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like, oh, there's the goal, I did it.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it it's not it doesn't really work that way, you know.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like it it you you hit that goal and you keep going, you have more ideas.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but school just started wife out of town, gotta get the hell out of here.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: I gotta take care of kids and do stuff.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_03: And go get your girls, man, or go get your girl.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_03: Go get your girl.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_04: Everybody, yeah.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_03: Graham's gonna jump off.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna give a closing remark.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody, we thank you.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_03: We appreciate you.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_03: Let's move this back to diabetes.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: You are amazing.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_03: You yeah, I don't, I mean, you're amazing.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you are the best version of you.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_03: And that's the only thing that we can ever do is be is is work every single day to be the best versions of ourselves.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_03: And whatever that looks like.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_03: And there's gonna be some days, my God, there's some days when I am not the best version of myself, but then there's gonna be other days where you feel like you're on top of the world.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_03: You're floating in the sky, you're floating in those clouds, and you're just looking down at everyone else, trying to make it, trying to make life work, and you're up there just without a care in the world.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_03: That's man, that's a great feeling.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_03: Doesn't happen all the time, but it's a that is it is an is an amazing, amazing feeling to be able to look at like I'm talking about diabetes, to be able to look down at the rest of the world, at everyone else, and say to yourself, I've got this, I've got this, and nothing's gonna stop me.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_03: And that's what you deserve to feel like.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_03: You've got this, nothing's ever gonna get in your way because you believe in you and you trust every decision that you're gonna make, even if it doesn't come out the way you want it to, you still trust the decision.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_03: That is that's where I want every single one of you to be.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's so amazing, it's incredible.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_03: Even if you are gonna even if your blood sugars are kind of up and down, up and down, up and down, even if you don't have complete stability, I don't have complete stability in my in my blood sugars.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_03: But I feel that I feel on top of the world, I feel like nothing's gonna get in my way, and I completely trust in my decisions and in myself.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of people say that they can trust in their decisions, not a lot of people they can say that they can actually trust in themselves, and they actually know what that means.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: You can trust in yourself, you can trust in the decisions, and you can trust in yourself.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_03: Love you guys.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_03: Grandma would say the same thing if he was still here.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: We love you.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_03: You're amazing, you got this.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for listening, and we will see you next time.