Latest / Better Preaching Podcast / BP2 Season 1 Episode 12 - Tyler McKenzie | Finding Your Voice
Transcript
- Dr. Frank Weller: Tyler McKenzie, welcome to the better preaching podcast. Tyler McKenzie: Glad to be back. Dr. Frank Weller: Hey man, last time we talked, ⁓ we learned about your journey to becoming a preacher. And today I really want us to spend some more time on the nuts and bolts of your preaching. So let's start with this. Which do you most enjoy or more enjoy? Preparing sermons or delivering them, and why? Tyler McKenzie: Mm. So my personal opinion on this is that I love the preparation process more than the deliverance process. part of it's a little bit selfish. I feel like when you're in the preparation process, you are safe in the arms of God, right? So you're studying his word, you're thinking through things, you're being personally convicted by it, you know, you're trying out thoughts and ideas and asking the Holy Spirit, is this how you want me to frame it up? and ⁓ it just feels like this really dynamic relationship with God while you're preparing. But then you move to the presentation side of it. And when you get the presentation, like all of a sudden it's out there in the world. And no longer is it's just you in the safe and loving arms of the Heavenly Father. Now it's it's in the minds and ⁓ the hearts of of other people and their feedback isn't always kind or or sometimes they are way too kind and you start believing your own press clippings and you know the intoxication of success and the love of people can impact you and ⁓ you know, or or just the rejection of your people can impact you. So I'm definitely more of a a preparation guy than a presentation guy, but I will say this the reason why I'm a preacher, I would say this to anybody out there considering whether or not they should be a preacher. Okay. The reason why I am a preacher is that there is no other point in my life Where I feel closer to God than in the preaching process. That includes preparation and presentation. I feel close to him in a very special way. I cannot imagine myself doing anything else. and I can say that that has been true of me since two thousand twelve. Could not ema maybe one time between two thousand twelve and two thousand twenty six where I could start at imagining myself. We can talk about that too later, but ⁓ you know. I could not imagine myself doing anything else and ⁓ and so it doesn't matter what part of the process I'm in. I'm I love it. Dr. Frank Weller: How many times a week are you preaching? Tyler McKenzie: At Northeast we do right now two services, but I'm oftentimes doing multiple preaching projects a week. So I may have a sermon that I'm doing on Sunday, but then I'm speaking at a local college ministry, but then I'm doing a podcast with Frank, but then also I'm writing a article for Christian Standard. So I may have a few pieces of content that I'm producing a week, but I like it like that. Dr. Frank Weller: So you're in the stu you're in the study a lot. Tyler McKenzie: Yeah, ⁓ you gotta be efficient, you know, because it's also there's also a leadership side to the, you know, lead pastor role. But I do I am in the study and writing a lot. Dr. Frank Weller: What does your cadence look like? Tyler McKenzie: What do you mean? Dr. Frank Weller: Well, what I mean is ⁓ I presume you start off with a preaching calendar and you go somewhere and you figure out what you're gonna preach for the next year and then you pull together ⁓ a a series and and at some some point you have to have so many weeks ahead in order to get it to the creative team. So just walk us kind of through your cadence of sermon from conception to delivery. Tyler McKenzie: Yeah. Okay, so ⁓ I'm probably not super c creative when it comes to this. I don't know what everybody else has said, but I'm sure I'm similar. right now, June, July, August, I will plan two thousand twenty seven. ⁓ and I will plan it in pencil I will present it to my staff at the end. After getting feedback from staff through June, July, August, I will present it to all staff sometime in August and I will present it to them with the caveat of this is seventy five percent in pen. But there's there's gonna be some variability next year where we need to change a topic or we throw a sermon series out for something else we feel like's more pressing or something comes up where the schedule gets Tweaked a little bit, so just be ready for that. But overall, this is the direction we're going. Here's some of our big themes. Here's some of the ⁓ you know, the more more creative or different things that we're doing next year. ⁓ so that's that's you know, thirty thousand foot up. As you move your way down, ⁓ when I am anywhere from three to four months out from a sermon, since I basically know what I'm preaching ⁓ generally and when, ⁓ I'll usually read a book for every sermon. Now It doesn't mean that'd mean fifty-two books. I may read a book for a series. You know? ⁓ and sometimes I read a book three years ago for a previous sermon that really there was a great chapter or two that I want to use for this sermon. So I'm not gonna sit here and lie and I like I I'm reading fifty-two books a year for fifty-two sermons. But ⁓ I do try to make sure that I'm well read on it. I'll listen to podcasts. ⁓ I will ⁓ read articles online from both Christian and non Christian sources, and the whole time I'm doing that I'm just crock potting, man. I'm building a file, if you will. Some guys build their files on their emails, some in ⁓ on their phones, but I'm just building my file, building my file, building my file to where once I get to the week where I'm ⁓ actually preaching it, there's not a whole lot of research that happens on that sermon. So like I on Tuesday of the week I'm preaching, I'm not I'm not really researching the sermon anymore. I'm deciding what parts of the research I'm gonna use, how, and how I'm gonna structure it in a way that's compelling. ⁓ big pet peeve for me in preaching presentation is that ⁓ we should not be making the Bible boring. It is not a boring book. It should be compelling, it should be funny when it's ⁓ when it's funny, it should be heart wrenching when it's heart wrenching, like our passion should leak out into the congregation. ⁓ so ⁓ and that you know, that we we gotta work on that, right? So I would just say that ⁓ in that week of I'm not doing a whole lot of research, I'm figuring out a way to structure it in a way that that it hits. Dr. Frank Weller: And when you w one of the things that characterizes your preaching is that you're not afraid to tackle difficult subjects in in the pulpit. When you're putting together that year-long series or year year long series of series, you're looking at some tough topics. ⁓ what are some of those topics that that you've kind of dealt with maybe in 2026 or more or you know in the last year or so? Ентак тос аую опрочто. Tyler McKenzie: Yeah. ⁓ so I just did a long form lecture for our leaders on immigration and care for the po foreigner. ⁓ this week I'm preaching on attending a mega church. ⁓ the following week I'm preaching on youth sports culture, which we talked about some in the last episode. in the past year I've preached on gender identity, human sexuality, DEI ⁓ you know, so it like just basically trying to take on the things that okay, so here's a personal conviction of me that I have as as a preacher. ⁓ Frank. ⁓ I believe that when it comes to the controversial issues, like we have to be willing to do it. We have to be willing to bring it. We have to be willing to bring compassion and clarity and conviction in Christ right into the middle of the controversy. You know, we have the Word of God. And the Word of God has something to say about all the diverse controversial issues that we're dealing with today. And also we are the people of God, and so if we desire for peace for the the culture broadly to to have a better, more healthy conversation when it comes to these things, then we should be able to do it at the church. We gotta we gotta go first. Like we got the Holy Spirit, man. He delivers the fruit of love and joy and peace and patience and kindness and goodness. You know the fruit, right? So w we should if we really have that power inside of us, then we should be able to model a better way of having these conversations. And so ⁓ I think that's important for the church to do. We gotta w lean in, we gotta take the the licks that come with it, and ⁓ and we also have to believe that if if we work at it through the power of the Spirit, we can do this in a way that actually is highly evangelistic rather than off putting. And that's what we found. Dr. Frank Weller: Love that. Hey, let's take a pause for just a moment. I want to thank our sponsor, Great Lakes Christian College, where we're offering our new Master of Arts and Practical Theology degree where you can learn at a flexible, convenient pace without sacrificing community. You get real instructional support. This isn't a degree mill. It's more face-to-face and less busy work. GLCC is focused on helping you serve your church and community now and in the future. If you're ready to answer God's call to ministry, go to www.glcc.edu and get more details. You know, something you shared with me in the pre-interview, Tyler, really piqued my interest. You mentioned the five service types that you have at Northeast. I'd really like to know more about that. Tyler McKenzie: ⁓ yeah, so okay. This is something that we're doing that I don't think a lot of other churches are doing, but I could be wrong, so correct me if I'm wrong if you know other places are doing it. But what we found was I think we came up with the idea in twenty twenty two. We found that when we brought our church together there were five things we usually tried to do. ⁓ one we really wanted to pray. And it wasn't like just like a transitional prayer from the song to the sermon time. Like we wanted to pray about specific things that are on the liturgical calendar or on our city's calendar or happening in our country, our culture, our church. We wanted to pray. ⁓ we wanted to equip people practically to live out the their faith, which is, you know, what we usually are preaching towards. We wanted to increase biblical literacy. Like we d d we wanted people to know the Bible and be able to read it on their on their own the six days outside of church. We wanted to celebrate and like experience genuine community, like happy, joyful community. And then we also wanted to ⁓ encourage ⁓ people to serve together and and to actually maybe have some opportunities to do that. Now we also found that when you try to do all five of those in one sixty to eighty minute block, which however long you do your services, it's hard to do any of them well. What ends up happening is they all kind of get lip service that ends up being shallow, and so you teach people shallow forms of prayer, or you never get to say all that you wanted to say about that book, or you never get to really serve together. So we came up with five different service types, and we basically build our preaching calendar around highlighting these different types. We have equipping weekends. These are what would be like your normal sermon weekends where you might do a sermon series on how to manage your money or your ma on marriage or whatever, right? And those are the majority. We do those probably two out of three. ⁓ the second service type are Bible study weekends. These are near and dear to my heart. ⁓ probably about six to eight times a year. I will put on my, you know, nerd hat. And I tell everybody, I'm like, look, today we're going to focus on this particular book of the Bible. And ⁓ the mindset is if I had fifty minutes at a Bible college in an intro to Old Testament, intro to a New Testament course, and they were like, Tyler, I'm about to do ⁓ about to do Hosea. They're like, Tyler, you got fifty minutes, explain Hosea to the people. Then these would be the fifty minutes that I would give you. And I talk about interpretive issues, I talk about literary type, I talk about genre, ⁓ you know, I outline the book, and then I bring it to Jesus at the end. People love those. They're fifty minutes, sometimes closer to an hour. There's only one or two songs that weekend and communion and we're out of there. But ⁓ people know that I'm trying to make them better Bible readers and they also know if we stay at this for about eight or nine years, we'll build a library where we got the whole Bible. and we're about halfway through now. third service type is prayer and worship weekends. We try to build those around the liturgical calendar. So we'll do one in Advent, one on Lent, we do one at New Year's. And then maybe one at some other time of the year we discern's right. Fourth service type, celebration weekends. It is what it we just did our multi-ethnic food festival. It's one of our celebration weekends. We had the nations of our church bring foods and we had tents and just partied. And then our last service types are are Blitz weekends, where we literally will call off church in our room and send church to the streets to serve our diverse partners around the city. So people know their different service types and ⁓ they're mostly equipping weekends. It probably goes equipping. Two thirds of the time, Bible about eight times a year, prayer about four, celebration about four, and serve days are two, two a year. Dr. Frank Weller: That puts some pressure on you homiletically, because you've got to be diverse and fluent in expository preaching, topical preaching, going going deep in in ⁓ a text. I can see why guys don't want to do that. I can see why guys wanna stick with the 25 minute formula and and in and out the door. What do you think is the biggest benefit? to your congregation of this this model and and what's the biggest challenge for you as the guy preaching in this model? Tyler McKenzie: Guys, whoever the guys are that don't want to do it, I'm just gonna encourage you, don't be lazy. Like lean into this. When did your faith come alive? It was probably in a Bible college class or in a Bible study or in a seminary class where a professor opened the word of God and taught you something simple that you may have heard a hundred times before, but in a way that bing the light bulb went off, right? And it was like the deep stuff in the word of God that made you think, I want to teach this. But that's that's what made me think I want to teach is I loved studying it. And I'm like, and and some people don't love it as much. I get it. Like some are more pastoral-minded, some are more preaching-minded, but at the end of the day, most of the preachers that I know decided to become preachers because they love to open up God's word and they wanted other people to experience what they experienced, right? That's what these week Bible study weekends are. These are weekends where you get to like spend a little extra time, like let we're gonna get nerdy, y'all. You know, I'm gonna show, I'm gonna show you some of the things that this that are at the second, third, fourth, fifth level that you've never maybe thought of or heard of before because, because I want you to be able to walk out of church today, and I want you to be able to remember where this book fits in the story arc of the Bible. And I want you to remember what it's generally about. And I want you to be able to understand the literary types that you're dealing with that aren't necessarily always historical narrative. Maybe it's poetry. Maybe it's apocalyptic. Maybe it's epistle, right? And ⁓ I want you to be able to connect this whole thing to Jesus, because that's what it all comes back to. Like it is, those are fun. So I'm just encouraging you, like, if the reason why you're resisting is you're like, ⁓ I don't know. That seems like a lot of work. It is. It's a little more work than normal, but you'll love it. It'll bring you so much joy. And your church will like the change of pace, right? The it's the novelty of it. and the depth of it, even your new believers will be like, Man, I really I really like that. They'll say, I want you to do more. Now they don't want you to do that many more. If you're doing Bible study sermons every week, they'd be like, I don't know if I like this church anymore. But but they like a they like it in in in small doses. Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah. So you're it's a big cognitive dump in a lot of ways, but the the the real effective aim of that kind of sermon is it it's not just I want you to know this information. I want you to fall in love with the text so that you become hungry to to learn this on your own. I mean, it's it's fall in love with scripture, right? Tyler McKenzie: 100%. So one of our vision tar we have ten vision targets as a church. One of our vision targets is that we will be a congregation who knows, honors, and reads the Bible. Or in other words, ⁓ if you hang around our church long enough, I would want you to be able to say, I grasp the story of the Bible, I respect it as authoritative, I know how to read it, and I actually read it. And so one of the ways for us to accomplish that vision target is through these Bible study weekends. We have a a lot of different strategies to help us get there, but that's one of them. And so I'm teaching like, how does this book fit in the story arc? You know? ⁓ yeah, how what what good truth is in here that shows you that there's real authority in, you know, something random in the prophets like Hosea? You know? How do I read poetry? 'Cause that's mostly what the prophets are anyways. Like, how do I even those are hard to understand. ⁓ I think it just it unlocks the Bible for people. Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah, and and the folks over at Bible Project have proven that people are hungry for that kind of that that kind of ⁓ information and understanding. ⁓ Tyler, you told me there's some preachers you really admire. I'd love for you to tell our BP two listeners about them and and why you find their preaching so compelling. Tyler McKenzie: That's right. Hm. So do you listen to a lot of preaching, Frank? Dr. Frank Weller: Not as much as I used to. Tyler McKenzie: I I listen to quite a bit. I go through seasons that I'm like more podcast than I am sermon. So like I'll I'll sort of go back and forth between them what I'm primarily listening to. But at the end of the day I li I mean the co my car does not move without me listening to a podcast. I'm not I don't work out in the gym without me listening to a podcast. So I'm probably hitting four or five sermons or four or five podcasts a week. the particular preachers that I like right now And this was different than when I started. This is another thing about preaching voice that ⁓ you know, we if we have time we can talk about. But when I started, the preachers that I listened to were very formative to the preacher that I became. So that would be some advice that I would give the young preachers. But who I'm listening to right now, ⁓ I listened to I still listen to Tim Keller. ⁓ and he is with Jesus. But Tim Keller had a way of taking the timeless truths of God and applying it to our secular ⁓ c culture that just I spoke to me and it's and I think it it lit up some of my unique gifts and the way my brain worked. And I'm like, I I feel like I can I can kinda preach that way as well. And so he's a great model for me and I just found myself listening. ⁓ Some of my favorite Keller to listen to are some of those old questioning Christianity lectures that he used to do. ⁓ where he would sit in an audience full of skeptics and say, Here's why you should choose Jesus and then do Q and A for forty five minutes And he would get like off the wall questions and he would just nail it. I I remember in seminary I would listen to him do these Q and A's and I would pause it when the question was asked. I'd pause it and I'd try to answer it myself and then I would listen to Keller's answer. And it was always better. But it was it was and then I would transcribe his answer. Dr. Frank Weller: Mm. Tyler McKenzie: Because like, ⁓ that's so good. Listen to how he's able to conversationally weave these arguments in. And I don't know. There was just something about the way that he was able to engage culture and skeptics that that really identify with me, my unique gifts, my unique needs as a follower of Jesus. Then ⁓ another guy I like to listen to a lot is Charlie Dates, African American church preacher in Chicago. ⁓ Charlie Dates The way I would describe him if you've never heard him is he is both proclamation and performance at the same time without pretense. Proclamation and performance without pretense all packed in. Like he doesn't just preach a sermon, he embodies it. The the last sermon I listened to him preach was one on praying through mental illness. He was talking about prayer and depression. And Like the he didn't just preach about prayer. He was singing about he was dancing about it. He wa like it he he was able to take you up to the ivory tower heights of scholarship and then back down to the streets in the way that he was explaining it. And I I remember thinking like geez, if you walked into his church that day and you were depressed, at least for that hour you felt joy. You felt the joy of the Lord. ⁓ and so he just has this way of embodying. Dr. Frank Weller: Mm-hmm. Tyler McKenzie: what he says and also being like scholarly but streets at the same time and I have an appreciation for that. Like I want to to help people reach to the cookies on the top shelf, but I never want to feel like I'm inac inaccessible ⁓ as a as a pastor. ⁓ so I I love that about dates. Dr. Frank Weller: You know, one of the things we also talked about was Avoiding the trap of comparison. I know you encourage preachers not to compare themselves to others. But if I'm honest, there are people I admire too. There are preachers that I admire too. And it's difficult not to compare myself to them. So when you listen to, I mean, you you already a little bit alluded to it because you said Keller would ask the question, you'd hit pause and then try to answer it, and then listen, and and you said his answer was always better. So I'm just wondering. That's advice that you give. Don't compare yourself to others, but how much do you struggle with that? I know I do. And and how how do we avoid the comparison trap? Tyler McKenzie: I'm the worst at this, so that's why I'll be able to give good advice because I'm not good at it and I've thought about it a lot. Okay. Like you are is this not true your best sermons are the ones that you personally struggle with the most because you just have the on the ground insight of what it's like to be terrible at this. so there's a first off, I would differentiate between emulation and like jealous comparison. ⁓ when I first started as a preacher, I wasn't totally sure what my voice was. Dr. Frank Weller: Ha ha ha. ⁓ Sure. Tyler McKenzie: ⁓ so what I did was I listened to a lot of preachers and when I found something about a preacher that I liked and resonated with, I would write that down and try to learn how they did it. ⁓ this is what you do in sports. When I was a young baseball player, I wanted to swing like Ken Griffey Jr. I wanted to dribble to basketball like Alan Iverson, right? Like I emulated what they did on the bat on the court and on the field. It's the same way of preaching. So like when I was a ⁓ first in preaching, I loved Francis Chan's ability to communicate passion. Sometimes he didn't communicate complex truth. Like he would say things, he would just like read the Bible and I'd be like, ⁓ let's take the mountain. You know? ⁓ I loved Andy Stanley's conversational style. I loved Tim Keller's ability to take scholarship and apply it to the culture. ⁓ I liked John Weiss at Southland. I remember I listened to a lot of John Weiss when I was first in because he was a great storyteller. ⁓ there were guys who were very good at humor, and I thought, you know, I'm kind of woody, like I think I can use humor to my advantage. So I would listen to them because they were good. good at this particular thing and I would emulate things they would do. ⁓ there's and again I think there's a difference between like emulation and jealous comparison. Now what happened was after I got pretty decent at preaching and I got this job and I started thinking my stuff don't stink a little bit, the comparison mindset, the competitive, maybe that's a better word, the competitive formation that I had had for twenty years as an athlete growing up started to eke its way into my preaching. And so rather than looking at other preachers as brothers, as co-laborers, as resources and friends and peers, I started looking to them as, okay, I I want to be better than them. I want to be the best preacher of my generation. I want to be the best preacher in my city. Like that those were the thoughts that start creeping in your mind. And what happens is, is when that happens, it starts to steal the joy and the love of the craft. Because, well, first off Dr. Frank Weller: Comparison is the thief of joy. Tyler McKenzie: A hundred percent. What that's not the Bible. That's Teddy is that Teddy Roosevelt? Who who said that? Okay. But either way it's true. Al t Frank Weller, comparison is the thief of joy. yeah, so I found first off that I was becoming overly critical of myself as a preacher. Dr. Frank Weller: One of them. Yeah, I don't know. Today it's you and me saying it. Ha ha ha. Tyler McKenzie: When I walked off stage, I couldn't experience the joy of being used by God. Instead, it was these were seven things I did wrong that I need to fix for next service or next time. I found that I couldn't listen to another person preach without immediately placing myself in comparison to them. If I was better than them, I would feel pride. If I was worse than them, I would feel shame and envy. And so like I loved listening to sermons. All of a sudden I couldn't listen to sermons anymore. And then I started competing against other churches. Okay, what what are they doing? Let me do it better. You know, how do I get more eyes, more views? And so it just it came to a point, you know you know what the critical spiritual decision I made that helped me start to break the chains of this was I stopped doing no notes preaching. I was a no notes preacher for probably the first seven or eight years that I preached and I realized during this time period that it was a source of pride. I did it because not because it necessarily made me all that much better than if I had a manuscript or an outline in front of me, but I did it because I liked the fact that people said he goes up there with just his Bible and throws it down, you know? And so I th I said, you know what? It's gonna get me three hours of my week back to lead. To take notes up there, one, on a pr on the practical side, two, you need to just humble yourself, man. It's not about that. You know, maybe this is a small act of humility ⁓ that will begin to break some of the hard heartedness. And so I started going on stage with a manuscript. I've I still do it to this day. I have a I have a working manuscript that you know I don't I don't you necessarily read from, but I think it really ⁓ it really helped me kind of like say, Okay, this is not about what other people think, this is about preaching the word of God. Period. So Dr. Frank Weller: That's really helpful. Hey, we have time, believe it or not, for one more question. ⁓ but before we wrap up, I want to mention our sponsor one more time. The Preaching Better Preaching Podcast is sponsored by Great Lakes Christian College, where we're passionate about training the next generation of preachers, youth ministers, worship leaders, and missionaries. That's why our professors aren't just in the classroom Monday through Friday. They're actively engaged in ministries on Sundays, too. So if you want an education that combines the best classroom and real life ministry experience, you can get More information at glcc.edu. You mentioned ⁓ finding your voice or your voice. I when I taught advanced homiletics, one of the books that I used ⁓ was Dave Stone's Finding Your Voice. And eventually it became out of print. And Dave gave me, he was kind enough to give me permission to just photocopy it and give it to my students. And when I was a young preacher, oftentimes when I would begin to approach a text or a topic, I would hear that other preacher's voice. And I would think, how would Bob Russell approach this? How would Charles Stanley walk out this truth? And eventually you have to get from hearing that other preacher's voice to finding your own voice. And I sense that maybe you have some strong ⁓ thoughts on that. And and I'd love to hear your thinking about finding your voice as a preacher. Tyler McKenzie: Yeah. Yeah, I would encourage every young preacher that it's gonna take time. And I would also say that there's nothing wrong with that early on. When you're young in the game, riding the coattails of the wise leaders who have come before you, who know how to do it and have proven that they've used their gifts faithfully and well, there's nothing wrong with that. Like I mean I just there's there's no other industry where they wouldn't tell you to look at the greats and try to emulate what they did and and do it how they did. So ⁓ I don't have any problem with that. One of the first the first piece of advice I give about this to young young preachers is one, I say if you want to find your voice, one, you need to start identifying the things that people say to you consistently ⁓ about your unique preaching style that are positive. You know, you are just really good at making deep concepts simple. You know what? You just keep me engaged. ⁓ my goodness, you're so passionate. Hey, you're kind of funny up there, right? Like, I love how you walk people through the text. Like, think where if when you start hearing compliments like that over and over, what you're starting to hear is, ⁓ this might be some of the natural inclinations of my preaching, and that that may be part of my voice. Then the next thing I say is what I just said to you earlier. Go find some preachers that you resonate with at a heart level. Identify why. Don't just listen to them and take their stuff. You know? Because sometimes you're gonna hear an illustration, you're gonna snatch that, right? Like, but don't just listen to them for that. Listen to them and identify what is it about their preaching that I identify so much with? Is there an aspect or a trait that I see in them that I feel like maybe I see in myself? And be very clear and identify that and then and dissect it. Like you would dissect Ken Griffey Jr. swing when you're copying it. Dissect and say, how is it that John Wees tells stories so well? Like I wanna I wanna understand that. And then that will help you adopt their unique skill. ⁓ without necessarily just stealing their stuff. And then I you know, it's gonna it's gonna take time. It took me probably ten years, ⁓ preaching wise for me to really feel like okay, I'm coming into my own voice and ⁓ you know, those those ⁓ preachers that I looked to early on, ⁓ they helped build a foundation, but they are no longer the ones speaking. This is Tyler speaking now. So just be patient. Dr. Frank Weller: Yeah, and it was several years in for you. It was several years in for you where you said, okay, no more notes. I'm taking a manuscript on the stage. And even that's an evolution in your voice. Yeah. Well, I love that. That's incredible advice. Another half hour that went by really, really fast. ⁓ thanks, man. Re I I really appreciate you. Tyler McKenzie: Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Can't believe it. Thank you, Frank. Dr. Frank Weller: ⁓ I wanna thank ⁓ not just Tyler, but also our sponsor, Great Lakes Christian College. Hey, and I wanna thank you, our BP2 community, for listening to and supporting the Better Preaching podcast. Join us next week for another great conversation because better preaching makes a bigger impact.