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Hot Takes on a Low Key Debate · Pod Save America

0:20
Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
0:21
Speaker 2: I'm Jon Lovett.
0:22
Speaker 3: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
0:23
Speaker 4: Tommy Vitor.
0:24
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get right to it. We just watched the
0:26
Speaker 1: vice presidential debate together here in LA. To quote the moderators,
0:29
Speaker 1: Margaret Brennan and Nora O'Donnell, gentlemen, we have a lot
0:32
Speaker 1: to get through. We're going to start with the only
0:37
Speaker 1: thing that truly matters. What did the InstaReaction polls say?
0:41
Speaker 1: Very scientific. Take them as gospel. And basically, they're all tied.
0:46
Speaker 1: It's a tied debate. I'm not going to go through
0:48
Speaker 1: all the numbers, but that's what they all said. And
0:50
Speaker 1: even the focus groups, the undecided voters, they were mostly tied.
0:54
Speaker 1: There was one undecided voter who I was about to
0:56
Speaker 1: say in this debate, like the one thing I could
0:59
Speaker 1: say about this debate is that no one made up
1:01
Speaker 1: their mind based on this debate. Not true. There was
1:03
Speaker 1: an undecided voter in Michigan who said they're voting for
1:06
Speaker 1: he's voting for Kamala Harris now based on this debate
1:09
Speaker 1: because of J.D. Vance's answer on January 6th, which we're
1:11
Speaker 1: going to talk about in a bit.
1:13
Speaker 2: So that one person plucked from them all is making
1:15
Speaker 2: us all feel like everything's going to be OK.
1:16
Speaker 1: It's fine. Right. It looks like, you know, CBS also
1:19
Speaker 1: did favorability ratings. It looks like both Walls and Vance,
1:23
Speaker 1: their favorability improved based on this debate. All of that said,
1:28
Speaker 1: we got our own panel of undecided voters right here.
1:32
Speaker 1: What did you all think? Who wants to start?
1:35
Speaker 4: I think the meta narrative coming out of tonight will
1:37
Speaker 4: be this respectful tone. And the fact that it kind
1:40
Speaker 4: of reminded people of normal political discourse. You saw that
1:42
Speaker 4: in some of the focus groups. They were like, oh,
1:44
Speaker 4: these people seem nice. They were nice to each other.
1:46
Speaker 3: They talked. They weren't disrespectful.
1:49
Speaker 4: I thought it was interesting that J.D. Vance went into
1:50
Speaker 4: tonight doing the media head fake being like, I'm going
1:52
Speaker 4: to savage him about lying about his military service.
1:55
Speaker 3: Then he did none of that.
1:57
Speaker 4: He was conspicuously nice to Tim Walz. He praised him constantly.
2:01
Speaker 4: He agreed with him. And so, you know, it's like
2:03
Speaker 4: hard watching these debates not to let your gut reaction
2:07
Speaker 4: be entirely grading.
2:09
Speaker 3: It on style points.
2:10
Speaker 4: And Wallace seemed a little nervous at the top, which
2:12
Speaker 4: is totally understandable. It's his first debate on a national stage.
2:15
Speaker 4: And the first question was like, would you bomb Iran?
2:18
Speaker 4: You know, he's a fucking Minnesota governor. That's not his
2:20
Speaker 4: comfort zone. But he smoothed it out as he went.
2:23
Speaker 4: He sometimes speaks in sentence fragments. He had some answers
2:26
Speaker 4: that were a little hard to follow. There was the
2:28
Speaker 4: China question that we'll talk about that was probably his
2:30
Speaker 4: worst answer tonight. There were a few times I think
2:32
Speaker 4: all of us were yelling at the TV being like,
2:34
Speaker 4: say this. But, you know, he was he went a
2:36
Speaker 4: different path. He had some really strong moments, though, on
2:40
Speaker 4: health care, abortion access, gun violence. And his best moment
2:45
Speaker 4: was the close with that January 6th question that, again,
2:47
Speaker 4: we'll get into.
2:47
Speaker 3: So I think J.D.
2:48
Speaker 4: Vance was like smooth and polished and clearly like the
2:51
Speaker 4: guy who was in debate club. But it's not clear
2:54
Speaker 4: to me that that necessarily plays well with the voters
2:57
Speaker 4: or that he did much better. For Trump tonight, because
2:59
Speaker 4: ultimately what people will remember out of this debate will
3:01
Speaker 4: be like one moment, and it'll probably be this January
3:04
Speaker 4: 6th clip that we will talk about later in the show.
3:08
Speaker 3: I agree with Tommy. I, too, was moved by the
3:11
Speaker 3: tone of the debate. Dan was crying. I tried to
3:17
Speaker 3: set up a drink with Mitch McConnell afterwards.
3:18
Speaker 1: We're all heading to the Red Ham after this.
3:24
Speaker 3: It was put aside the tone. What was interesting about
3:27
Speaker 3: it really was sort of a pre-Trump debate. It was
3:29
Speaker 3: a debate that it could have been Romney-Obama in 2012.
3:34
Speaker 3: It could have been Obama-McCain. It was pre-Trump in two ways. One,
3:38
Speaker 3: no one was screaming at the other person or stalking
3:40
Speaker 3: around or doing incredibly weird shit, which happens in Trump debates.
3:44
Speaker 3: But also, no one really tried.
3:45
Speaker 1: To have a whole bunch of lines. No one was
3:46
Speaker 1: trying to give each other COVID.
3:49
Speaker 3: Spitting. We don't know yet.
3:50
Speaker 1: Sweating.
3:51
Speaker 3: Let's wait until the test results come back. And there
3:54
Speaker 3: weren't a lot of, like, lines and zingers set up
3:57
Speaker 3: for social media. All the debates, even going back to 2012,
4:02
Speaker 3: were sort of like reverse engineered from these moments you
4:04
Speaker 3: would try to get that could then go viral on
4:06
Speaker 3: whatever the social platform was of that election cycle. And
4:10
Speaker 3: neither of the candidates really either tried to execute that
4:12
Speaker 3: or did execute it. And so it really was just
4:14
Speaker 3: sort of two guys talking to each other. I do
4:17
Speaker 3: think that there is this huge gap between how the
4:21
Speaker 3: pundits assessed Vance's performance and how the voters did And
4:26
Speaker 3: I think it speaks to the ways, the incorrect ways
4:28
Speaker 3: in which pundits judge debates. They are, I mean, media
4:32
Speaker 3: folks are all probably members of the same debate club
4:34
Speaker 3: that J.D. Vance was. They judge it on that, on
4:37
Speaker 3: points and style and poise and language precision. And voters
4:40
Speaker 3: are just kind of looking at it to get some information,
4:42
Speaker 3: make a big decision. And on that front, I think
4:45
Speaker 3: Wall scored more points than the initial pundit reaction suggested
4:48
Speaker 3: that he did.
4:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, the It's funny that you say it feels like
4:52
Speaker 2: a pre-Trump debate, because what I was thinking while watching
4:54
Speaker 2: it is that it actually feels like a post-Trump debate.
4:56
Speaker 3: I was just going to say that. I don't believe
4:59
Speaker 3: there's a post-Trump. I think J.D.
5:06
Speaker 2: Vance is obviously hyper-ambitious. He's doing all of this for
5:10
Speaker 2: his own benefit. He's completely adapted to Donald Trump. But
5:12
Speaker 2: you kind of saw that play out, I think, in
5:14
Speaker 2: an unexpected way, which is that a lot of what
5:16
Speaker 2: this debate felt like to.
5:17
Speaker 3: Me was J.D.
5:19
Speaker 2: Vance repairing J.D. Vance's image, right? He didn't want to
5:22
Speaker 2: be the attack version of J.D.
5:24
Speaker 1: Vance.
5:24
Speaker 2: He articulated more his philosophies. He has thoughts on Finland.
5:28
Speaker 3: Oh, you brought up Finland?
5:28
Speaker 2: I have thoughts about gun safety in Finland. I have
5:32
Speaker 2: actually very sophisticated views on family policy.
5:36
Speaker 1: He took Walz's Finland bait.
5:40
Speaker 2: And then we'll get to, I think, some of the
5:41
Speaker 2: ways that I think affects the race, which is how
5:43
Speaker 2: he tried to defend a version of Trump that doesn't exist.
5:46
Speaker 2: But it really was, I think, You see what J.D.
5:51
Speaker 2: Vance felt like he was doing up there was this
5:53
Speaker 2: is how I wish Donald Trump existed. This is the
5:55
Speaker 2: kind of politics I wish I was free to be
5:57
Speaker 2: able to practice without having to defend Donald Trump's words
6:00
Speaker 2: and deeds. And I think that will do a lot
6:02
Speaker 2: to repair J.D. Vance's image as a weird dipshit. But
6:06
Speaker 2: I don't know that ultimately like, oh, some on style points, J.D.
6:09
Speaker 2: Vance landed some punches. How does that help Trump? It
6:12
Speaker 2: doesn't matter how people come away seeing these two figures.
6:14
Speaker 2: It was who articulated a better case for Kamala versus Trump.
6:17
Speaker 2: And I think Tim Walz had that as his plan.
6:21
Speaker 2: And J.D.
6:21
Speaker 3: Vance, I don't think as much did.
6:23
Speaker 1: I was not surprised by J.D. Vance's performance. Like, the
6:27
Speaker 1: guy loves to argue, has no problem lying, clearly has
6:31
Speaker 1: no shame since he's Donald Trump's running mate after calling
6:35
Speaker 1: him America's Hitler. I also think, Lovett, you always talk
6:39
Speaker 1: about Trump's intellectual zambonis.
6:41
Speaker 2: Yeah.
6:42
Speaker 1: This is like.
6:44
Speaker 1: The intellectual Zamboni is Trump says something crazy. And then
6:47
Speaker 1: some pundit at the national national review, like Hugh Hewitt,
6:50
Speaker 1: Hugh Hewitt usually comes in and there's like actually a
6:52
Speaker 1: theory and an intellectual case behind that. And it's all bullshit.
6:55
Speaker 1: That's like the job JD Vance has been running for
6:58
Speaker 1: ever since he went from being a never Trumper to
7:00
Speaker 1: a Trumper. And I also think that like for most
7:03
Speaker 1: of JD Vance's career, he went from trying to impress
7:07
Speaker 1: the center, right center left establishment as a never Trumper
7:11
Speaker 1: to then becoming arguing with them and fighting with them
7:14
Speaker 1: as a, as a Trumper. And so he knows how
7:16
Speaker 1: to impress the establishment, which is what he tried to
7:20
Speaker 1: do tonight. Like he tried to, he tried to perform
7:23
Speaker 1: a normal version of JD Vance. And I think he was,
7:27
Speaker 1: he was relatively good at that again, because he was
7:29
Speaker 1: able to lie a lot.
7:32
Speaker 6: Yeah.
7:32
Speaker 2: It's sort of why, like as the debate was wrapping up,
7:34
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I think walls got better as the
7:36
Speaker 2: debate went on and his best moment was in the
7:38
Speaker 2: very end of the debate. But I walked away with
7:41
Speaker 2: this feeling like, oh, did I just watch something where
7:42
Speaker 2: I was like, what is this feeling I'm having and
7:45
Speaker 2: do I trust it? And we are the kind of
7:49
Speaker 2: people that are kind of naturally inclined to watch a
7:53
Speaker 2: debate based on points, to be impressed by style, to
7:57
Speaker 2: be impressed by clean articulation. And this has sort of,
7:59
Speaker 2: I think, been a fault of ours when we went
8:01
Speaker 2: back to the 2020 debates and not seeing when like,
8:03
Speaker 2: kind of being worried about Joe Biden, but actually Joe
8:05
Speaker 2: Biden appealing to people that are coming to it in
8:07
Speaker 2: a different way. And I feel like that was my
8:09
Speaker 2: hope coming out of the debate that actually, if you
8:11
Speaker 2: look at like, maybe J.D. Vance is, I think, a
8:15
Speaker 2: little bit tighter of a debater, but Walls is more genuine,
8:17
Speaker 2: a little bit more heartfelt, a little bit more real,
8:19
Speaker 2: even if he stumbles now and again, he kind of
8:21
Speaker 2: delivers something in a way that's more persuasive. And I
8:23
Speaker 2: think that that ultimately is why it looks like a draw.
8:26
Speaker 1: I also think J.D. Vance just highlighted that his running mate,
8:30
Speaker 1: is deranged and has deteriorated and should never be president. Like,
8:34
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm sure that's not what he intended,
8:37
Speaker 1: but I think the effect of this debate on some
8:39
Speaker 1: people who watched, who may be undecided, and I don't, again,
8:41
Speaker 1: I don't think it probably moved a lot of people,
8:44
Speaker 1: but they're probably like, oh, well, Donald Trump wasn't like that.
8:47
Speaker 1: He's got all the positions that Donald Trump has, but
8:49
Speaker 1: he sounds, he doesn't sound like a maniac. So I
8:52
Speaker 1: don't know if that really helps Donald Trump. And I
8:54
Speaker 1: don't know if Donald Trump, even though he's seemingly happy
8:58
Speaker 1: with the performance is going to be really happy with
9:00
Speaker 1: the performance.
9:00
Speaker 2: I'm like curious about the next 48 hours about like J.D.
9:03
Speaker 2: Vance taking the spotlight, J.D. Vance saying that Tulsi and
9:06
Speaker 2: RFK Jr. endorsed me, vote for me. Like, I think
9:09
Speaker 2: there's going to be a little bit of Donald Trump,
9:10
Speaker 2: like not like in this tall grass, you know?
9:12
Speaker 6: Yeah.
9:13
Speaker 1: So we've been talking about the big moment in the debate,
9:16
Speaker 1: which came at the end. It was the last exchange
9:19
Speaker 1: of the night. Topic was democracy and Trump's responsibility for
9:22
Speaker 1: January 6th. Let's listen.
9:24
Speaker 6: Hillary Clinton in 2016 said that Donald Trump had the
9:27
Speaker 6: election stolen by Vladimir Putin because the Russians bought like $ 500, 000
9:32
Speaker 6: worth of Facebook ads. And if we want to say
9:35
Speaker 6: that we need to respect the results of the election,
9:37
Speaker 6: I'm on board. But if we want to say, as
9:39
Speaker 6: Tim Walz is saying, that this is just a problem
9:41
Speaker 6: that Republicans have had, I don't buy that.
9:45
Speaker 3: Governor?
9:45
Speaker 7: January 6th was not Facebook ads. This was a threat
9:48
Speaker 7: to our democracy in a way that we had not seen.
9:51
Speaker 7: And it manifested itself because of Donald Trump's inability to say.
9:54
Speaker 7: He is still saying he didn't lose the election. I
9:57
Speaker 7: would just ask that. Did he lose the 2020 election?
10:00
Speaker 3: Tim, I'm focused on the future.
10:02
Speaker 6: Did Kamala Harris censor Americans from speaking their mind in
10:06
Speaker 6: the wake of the 2020 COVID situation?
10:09
Speaker 3: That is a damning non-answer.
10:11
Speaker 7: So, America, I think you've got a really clear choice
10:14
Speaker 7: on this election of who's going to honor that democracy
10:17
Speaker 7: and who's going to honor Donald Trump.
10:19
Speaker 1: So all the dial groups, the Harris campaign dial groups,
10:22
Speaker 1: other undecided voters, all agreed that that was the worst
10:25
Speaker 1: moment for J.D. Vance. I think not only because it
10:29
Speaker 1: was an obvious lie, but because he sounded like a
10:31
Speaker 1: fucking politician. I'm focused on the future.
10:33
Speaker 4: I don't think there's anything worse you could have said
10:35
Speaker 4: that I'm focused on the future.
10:36
Speaker 1: Yeah.
10:37
Speaker 3: Slippery, smarmy, ridiculous line.
10:40
Speaker 6: Yeah.
10:41
Speaker 1: It would have honestly been better if he was like,
10:42
Speaker 1: he did win that election.
10:44
Speaker 6: Yeah.
10:45
Speaker 3: I stand by it.
10:45
Speaker 1: Yeah. How much do you guys think that matters, Dan?
10:48
Speaker 3: And I mean, to the extent that anything matters in
10:50
Speaker 3: this debate, I think it matters more than anything else.
10:53
Speaker 3: And you have the big lie is a signifier of
10:56
Speaker 3: extremism for most voters in polling. Generally, six in 10
11:01
Speaker 3: voters believe Joe Biden legitimately won the election. That number
11:04
Speaker 3: is higher among independents, right? The exact undecided voters we're
11:07
Speaker 3: talking about, they do not think that the election was stolen.
11:11
Speaker 3: And they think it's really fucking weird that Donald Trump
11:13
Speaker 3: is still talking about that. four years later, and J.D.
11:16
Speaker 3: Vance being unable to answer the question in the most
11:19
Speaker 3: blatant way possible, might as well just hold up a
11:21
Speaker 3: sign that says, I'm a smarmy politician when you answer
11:23
Speaker 3: the question the way he did, is certainly not helpful
11:26
Speaker 3: to the cause. It's not the size of the lie.
11:28
Speaker 4: It's the motion in the ocean. I think this will
11:30
Speaker 4: get shared on the aforementioned Facebook, Twitter.
11:36
Speaker 1: I was going to go to talk, because I'm like,
11:37
Speaker 1: Tommy's got the face, he's about to say something funny.
11:39
Speaker 1: It's so hot in here, it's like really late.
11:41
Speaker 3: No, I do, I.
11:43
Speaker 1: It did come at the end, but I was like,
11:45
Speaker 1: you know what?
11:45
Speaker 3: Speaking of.
11:46
Speaker 1: It's the second time I've done that in two pods.
11:51
Speaker 3: I'm still not over the Pete Buttigieg thing.
11:53
Speaker 6: I know.
11:53
Speaker 1: I've heard about that.
11:56
Speaker 4: Tim Miller grades all of our podcast episodes and tells
11:58
Speaker 4: us when we did.
11:59
Speaker 1: Good, and he really liked that one. Just flagging it.
12:01
Speaker 6: Yeah.
12:02
Speaker 1: So it was at the very end of the debate.
12:03
Speaker 1: It was the last exchange. But it seems like. in
12:06
Speaker 1: this media environment, it could be the clip that defines
12:09
Speaker 1: the debate. It could be. Yeah, I think so. I mean,
12:11
Speaker 1: certainly that's what the Harris-Walls campaign is going to want
12:13
Speaker 1: to do. But I think that so far in the
12:15
Speaker 1: media coverage we've seen before recording, it seems like that's
12:19
Speaker 1: going to be the big moment. Yeah.
12:20
Speaker 2: And I also would say probably like if you were
12:22
Speaker 2: just sort of trying to be straight shooters here, Tim
12:25
Speaker 2: Walls is like that is J.D. Vance's worst moment by far.
12:28
Speaker 2: And it was the worst moment of the debate. Tim
12:30
Speaker 2: Walls's worst moment was probably his answer that we'll get
12:33
Speaker 2: to on kind of when he when he was in China.
12:38
Speaker 2: And like it was a bad and frumpering answer, but
12:41
Speaker 2: it was an answer about him in a kind of
12:42
Speaker 2: strange and sort of personal way. Like that answer goes
12:45
Speaker 2: to the heart of the case against Donald Trump.
12:47
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about that. Let's play that answer from
12:50
Speaker 1: from Tim Walz.
12:51
Speaker 5: Governor, just to follow up on that, the question was,
12:54
Speaker 5: can you explain the discrepancy?
12:57
Speaker 7: All I said on this was, is I got there
12:58
Speaker 7: that summer and misspoke on this. So I will just
13:02
Speaker 7: that's what I've said. So I was in Hong Kong
13:07
Speaker 7: and China during the democracy protests went in. And from that,
13:11
Speaker 7: I learned a lot of what needed to be in governance.
13:16
Speaker 1: Tommy, before we get into like whether that was good
13:18
Speaker 1: or bad or how bad that was or whatever, what
13:21
Speaker 1: was that all about? I couldn't even follow.
13:22
Speaker 3: So I asked Governor Walz about this when I interviewed
13:25
Speaker 3: him back in February.
13:26
Speaker 4: This was your fault. Yeah, well, partially, yes. I had
13:29
Speaker 4: read that he had been in China around the Tiananmen
13:31
Speaker 4: Square massacre. which occurred on June 4th. So I basically
13:38
Speaker 4: said like, were you there during the protest and the
13:39
Speaker 4: Tiananmen Square Massacre? He said, I was in Hong Kong.
13:41
Speaker 4: I was in Hong Kong when it happened. I was
13:43
Speaker 4: in Hong Kong on June 4th when Tiananmen happened, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
13:46
Speaker 4: And it turns out that there's some reports from local
13:49
Speaker 4: Nebraska news outlets that say he was in Nebraska on
13:53
Speaker 4: May 16th and he didn't travel to Hong Kong until
13:56
Speaker 4: August of 1989. So a couple of months after the protest,
13:59
Speaker 4: he did go, from Hong Kong into China. He did
14:01
Speaker 4: teach at a school. He did set up this exchange
14:03
Speaker 4: program after and like try to build ties between U.S.
14:07
Speaker 4: students and Chinese students. I think what happened is he
14:09
Speaker 4: just kind of misremembered the story over the years, mistold
14:13
Speaker 4: it a few times, and it just stuck in his
14:15
Speaker 4: brain wrong. Like that happens to people all the time.
14:19
Speaker 4: Our memories suck. We get things wrong all the time.
14:22
Speaker 4: And I'm sure it was pretty uncomfortable for him. He
14:24
Speaker 4: didn't seem like totally well prepared. He didn't just like
14:28
Speaker 4: explain it clearly, kind of told a bunch of bio
14:31
Speaker 4: and it was mostly confusing. I'm guessing most people watching
14:35
Speaker 4: just couldn't really follow what was happening there.
14:38
Speaker 3: I think maybe people will care. I seriously doubt it.
14:41
Speaker 4: If the Trump campaign decides to really drive this, I
14:43
Speaker 4: guess they could make it a thing. But like, what
14:44
Speaker 4: a waste of time.
14:45
Speaker 1: I mean, I read the CNN story about it before
14:49
Speaker 1: the debate and then watched the exchange and I still
14:51
Speaker 1: couldn't follow exactly what happened. But I don't fault him
14:55
Speaker 1: for because my memory is shit and I can't remember
15:00
Speaker 1: things that happened like two years ago and the stories
15:02
Speaker 1: and where I was. I do think that they, he
15:05
Speaker 1: knew this was coming and I would have just been
15:08
Speaker 1: a little clearer on like, you know what? I got
15:10
Speaker 1: that one wrong. I messed up. And then just, it
15:13
Speaker 1: was 35 years ago.
15:13
Speaker 2: I've been to China.
15:14
Speaker 1: There were democracy, but I messed up. I messed up.
15:16
Speaker 1: I messed up.
15:16
Speaker 6: Yeah.
15:16
Speaker 3: As advice to all politicians, that's always the best answer.
15:20
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:20
Speaker 3: Just, if you made a mistake, just own it and
15:23
Speaker 3: move on and be done with it. And, You're going
15:25
Speaker 3: to have to answer it. You can't just like dance
15:28
Speaker 3: around it for a long time and hope the clock
15:29
Speaker 3: runs out.
15:30
Speaker 1: Yeah.
15:31
Speaker 2: I also like the opening question ended up being about
15:33
Speaker 2: foreign policy. He answered that question. Vance says, before I
15:37
Speaker 2: get to your foreign policy question, I'm going to do
15:38
Speaker 2: my bio. Walls was looking for a place to kind
15:41
Speaker 2: of do his bio. He realized about being a teacher.
15:44
Speaker 2: So he does his bio. So it doesn't totally work.
15:46
Speaker 2: So fine, it's not the way to articulate that answer.
15:48
Speaker 1: That first question just really threw him off.
15:50
Speaker 4: But imagine, this is your biggest moment of your professional life.
15:54
Speaker 4: You're debating, you're the vice presidential nominee, and Iran launches
15:57
Speaker 4: 200 ballistic missiles at Israel the day before. And suddenly
16:00
Speaker 4: you haven't prepped for this, you haven't prepared, you haven't
16:02
Speaker 4: thought about what you'd say about this. I'm sure it
16:04
Speaker 4: was like a massive wrench in their preparation.
16:08
Speaker 2: But the point I want to make about it is
16:09
Speaker 2: just like, it's very much now kind of like bubbling
16:12
Speaker 2: on the hyper online, right? That like Tim Waltz, like
16:16
Speaker 2: doesn't tell the truth. He's a serial liar, serial exaggerator
16:19
Speaker 2: because he like, like, cause they try to mischaracterize how
16:22
Speaker 2: he responded when he talked about his, his family using
16:25
Speaker 2: fertility treatments and a few, uh, and how they kind
16:27
Speaker 2: of have like exaggerated about how he's described his service
16:31
Speaker 2: and tried to lie and malign him for how he's
16:32
Speaker 2: talked about his service. And I, I do think that like,
16:34
Speaker 2: if that's what they want to focus on, like trying
16:36
Speaker 2: to paint him walls in this way, like, I just
16:37
Speaker 2: don't think it works.
16:38
Speaker 1: I don't think it's viable.
16:39
Speaker 2: Like he just comes across as an honest, and straight-furthy guy,
16:42
Speaker 2: and they should be focusing on Kamala Harris, and they're
16:44
Speaker 2: defending the world's greatest liar. So I just think the
16:46
Speaker 2: whole thing is ultimately small and stupid.
16:48
Speaker 3: Also, J.D. Vance's entire life is a lie.
16:51
Speaker 5: Wow.
16:52
Speaker 3: There's that. I never got to the end of that book, though,
16:55
Speaker 3: but whatever happened there, they found him in that manger.
17:10
Speaker 1: My critique of Tim Walz was Less about that and more,
17:12
Speaker 1: I just think he had some missed opportunities, right? And
17:15
Speaker 1: I think that he, you could tell when he, I
17:17
Speaker 1: hadn't noticed this before, but whether it was anxiety or
17:21
Speaker 1: he was nervous, but he like, he jumps to the
17:23
Speaker 1: next thought and there were sentence fragments and he didn't
17:26
Speaker 1: quite complete the thought. So sometimes it was hard to
17:28
Speaker 1: follow exactly what he was saying. And like, even on
17:30
Speaker 1: the January 6th, which was his best answer, during that exchange,
17:34
Speaker 1: I was like, Why isn't he talking about Donald Trump
17:36
Speaker 1: wanting to pardon the insurrectionists? That's the most unpopular policy
17:40
Speaker 1: that he has, and it's about moving forward. You want
17:42
Speaker 1: to focus on the future, J.D. Vance. Your running mate
17:45
Speaker 1: wants to pardon the people who beat up cops.
17:48
Speaker 2: So, Tim Walz, you take these lessons, and when you're
17:50
Speaker 2: debating Marjorie Taylor Greene in four years, hopefully, you can
17:55
Speaker 2: be a little bit more on top of this.
17:56
Speaker 1: But he was, Walz was much better than that on
17:59
Speaker 1: a lot of the other answers. He, reproductive rights, he
18:03
Speaker 1: was really strong. Just like the campaign's been doing in
18:06
Speaker 1: ads and at the convention, he talked about the individual
18:08
Speaker 1: stories of women who've been injured or lost their lives
18:11
Speaker 1: because of their state's abortion bans. Let's listen.
18:14
Speaker 7: If you don't know Amanda or a Hadley, you soon will.
18:18
Speaker 7: Their project 2025 is going to have a registry of pregnancies.
18:22
Speaker 7: It's going to make it more difficult, if not impossible,
18:25
Speaker 7: to get contraception and limit access, if not eliminate access
18:30
Speaker 7: to infertility treatments. For so many of you out there listening,
18:33
Speaker 7: me included, infertility treatments are why I have a child.
18:36
Speaker 7: This is basic human right. We have seen Maternal mortality
18:41
Speaker 7: skyrocket in Texas, outpacing many other countries in the world.
18:45
Speaker 7: This is about healthcare.
18:47
Speaker 6: Donald Trump has been very clear that on the abortion
18:49
Speaker 6: policy specifically, that we have a big country and it's diverse.
18:54
Speaker 6: And California has a different viewpoint on this than Georgia.
18:57
Speaker 6: Georgia has a different viewpoint from Arizona. And the proper
19:00
Speaker 6: way to handle this, as messy as democracy sometimes is,
19:04
Speaker 6: is to let voters make these decisions. Let the individual
19:08
Speaker 6: states make their abortion policy.
19:10
Speaker 7: How can we as a nation say that your life
19:14
Speaker 7: and your rights, as basic as the right to control
19:18
Speaker 7: your own body, is determined on geography?
19:21
Speaker 1: I thought the geography thing was a great response to
19:25
Speaker 1: Vance because clearly it was, Walls had his prepared first
19:28
Speaker 1: answer there, but then going back and hitting him on
19:29
Speaker 1: geography because he did California and Georgia was, I thought,
19:32
Speaker 1: really strong. What did you guys think of that?
19:33
Speaker 3: It was an incredibly strong answer. It's right. It fits
19:37
Speaker 3: with exactly how all the polling says you should talk
19:39
Speaker 3: about this. All the message testing says the ads and
19:43
Speaker 3: the speeches and the messages that lead with people's personal
19:46
Speaker 3: stories are by far the most powerful. It gets at freedom,
19:49
Speaker 3: the geography line. undermines Trump's state's argument, which is really important.
19:53
Speaker 3: And the Harris campaign has been hammering Trump and Vance
19:58
Speaker 3: on abortion for months now, and it is working. We
20:01
Speaker 3: are seeing in polls increases in the number of voters
20:04
Speaker 3: who think Trump would pass a federal abortion ban, who
20:06
Speaker 3: think he's personally anti-choice, who thinks that abortion rights are
20:10
Speaker 3: actually at stake if he's on the ballot. And that
20:12
Speaker 3: matters because in those blue wall states in the New
20:15
Speaker 3: York Times-Siena poll that came out over the weekend, abortion
20:17
Speaker 3: is the second issue by far. And so raising the
20:22
Speaker 3: science of that issue and driving home and pushing on
20:25
Speaker 3: that advantage is incredibly important. So this also goes to
20:27
Speaker 3: the point that J.D. Vance scored points in the debate
20:30
Speaker 3: on things that don't matter. And where Walls was at
20:32
Speaker 3: his best was on the exact things that matter to voters,
20:34
Speaker 3: like reproductive freedom.
20:36
Speaker 1: Tommy, what did you think of Vance's he kept bringing up,
20:39
Speaker 1: we have to earn voters' trust on this issue. It
20:42
Speaker 1: seemed like he was trying to soften the edges of
20:44
Speaker 1: the typical Trump Republican answer and Vance answer on abortion,
20:48
Speaker 1: because he has said some really wacky things.
20:51
Speaker 6: Yeah.
20:51
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess it folded into his broader strategy
20:54
Speaker 3: of like, hey, I'm just a good guy. I feel
20:55
Speaker 3: your pain.
20:56
Speaker 4: Let's agree to disagree and find common ground. But like,
20:58
Speaker 4: I don't know, earn your trust on this issue. Like,
21:01
Speaker 4: what does that mean to someone who lives in a
21:03
Speaker 4: state where women are dying because they can't get a
21:06
Speaker 4: abortion care. You know, it's just, it did not, I don't,
21:09
Speaker 4: I don't think it's going to work for them.
21:10
Speaker 1: He also lied about saying he never supported a national
21:13
Speaker 1: abortion ban.
21:13
Speaker 6: J.D.
21:13
Speaker 1: Vance absolutely supported a national abortion ban.
21:15
Speaker 4: The CBS polling on the issues showed that Governor Walz
21:18
Speaker 4: did way better than J.D. Vance in terms of voters,
21:22
Speaker 4: the response when talking about abortion and healthcare.
21:25
Speaker 7: Yeah.
21:25
Speaker 2: That was also another moment where it was much more
21:27
Speaker 2: about himself. Like he was talking about what he'd said
21:29
Speaker 2: in the past and his own views on abortion. I
21:32
Speaker 2: also do think like it was like one of Tim
21:35
Speaker 2: Walz's best moments in the debate, but to the point
21:37
Speaker 2: John was making, it was also a moment to say like,
21:39
Speaker 2: you know, earn people's trust. You're for a national abortion ban.
21:42
Speaker 2: You've had this, you said Donald Trump would veto it.
21:46
Speaker 2: He now say he wouldn't back you on that. Like
21:47
Speaker 2: there was, there were places where.
21:48
Speaker 1: You could like, I think. Your running mate says that
21:50
Speaker 1: women should be punished.
21:51
Speaker 6: Right.
21:52
Speaker 1: So the women should be punished for abortion.
21:54
Speaker 2: Like the whole point of your position is that you
21:55
Speaker 2: don't trust women.
21:56
Speaker 6: Yeah.
21:56
Speaker 3: Why should they trust you?
21:57
Speaker 1: So clearly, unsurprisingly, Vance went into the debate wanting to
22:00
Speaker 1: make every single answer about immigration. Here are some of
22:03
Speaker 1: the key exchanges.
22:04
Speaker 7: And that's the thing that I think we should be
22:06
Speaker 7: able to find some common ground in. But we can't
22:08
Speaker 7: blame immigrants for the only reason. That's not the case
22:12
Speaker 7: that's happening in many cities.
22:14
Speaker 6: Tim just said something that I agree with. We don't
22:16
Speaker 6: want to blame immigrants for higher housing prices, but we
22:19
Speaker 6: do want to blame Kamala Harris for letting in millions
22:22
Speaker 6: of illegal aliens into this country, which does drive up costs, Tim.
22:26
Speaker 6: 25 million illegal aliens competing with Americans for scarce homes
22:31
Speaker 6: is one of the most significant drivers of home prices
22:34
Speaker 6: in the country. It's why we have massive increases in
22:38
Speaker 6: home prices Thank you, Governor.
22:40
Speaker 5: And just to clarify for our viewers, Springfield, Ohio, does
22:43
Speaker 5: have a large number of Haitian migrants who have legal status,
22:48
Speaker 5: temporary protected status.
22:50
Speaker 3: Nora, so much to get to. I think it's important.
22:53
Speaker 3: We're going to turn out of the economy. Margaret, the
22:56
Speaker 3: rules were that you guys were.
22:57
Speaker 1: Going to fact check.
22:59
Speaker 6: I think it's important to say what's actually going on.
23:02
Speaker 1: The rules were. No fact-checking. No fair. I'm supposed to
23:06
Speaker 1: be able to lie the whole time.
23:07
Speaker 3: I wouldn't have agreed to this debate if I knew
23:09
Speaker 3: there was going to be fact-checking.
23:10
Speaker 4: Does anyone believe that immigration is why housing costs are high?
23:15
Speaker 3: Is that credible to anybody?
23:17
Speaker 1: No. I mean, there is a case that in Springfield,
23:22
Speaker 1: because many of the Haitian immigrants were living together, are
23:27
Speaker 1: living together in houses, like five or six of them
23:29
Speaker 1: in a house who have come here, that it was making...
23:33
Speaker 1: housing too expensive for, like, a family of two who
23:36
Speaker 1: lived in Springfield and they were driving houses because they
23:38
Speaker 1: could live in a house. More people could live in
23:40
Speaker 1: one house.
23:40
Speaker 4: Sure.
23:41
Speaker 1: I know this is, like, a long thing.
23:42
Speaker 3: Once you have the legal migrants.
23:44
Speaker 1: Legal migrants, right, yeah. But again, you know, and Walz
23:48
Speaker 1: and Vance had this exchange, too, about housing. Like, J.D.
23:53
Speaker 1: Vance and Donald Trump have no housing plan. They have
23:55
Speaker 1: no plan to reduce the cost of housing. If all
23:57
Speaker 1: the Haitian migrants that are there legally left Springfield tomorrow,
24:00
Speaker 1: housing prices... in Springfield and all across the country would
24:03
Speaker 1: still be way too high. And they have no plan
24:05
Speaker 1: except to buy some federal land and build a house
24:08
Speaker 1: on a park somewhere. And deport people. Right.
24:12
Speaker 6: Yeah.
24:13
Speaker 1: How do you guys think he did on immigration? Do
24:14
Speaker 1: you think Vance scored some points there?
24:17
Speaker 3: I guess. I mean, I don't know.
24:19
Speaker 2: Like, it was, obviously, it's like a better issue for him.
24:23
Speaker 2: I think Walls, I think, did a good job when
24:26
Speaker 2: he talked about Donald Trump standing in the way of
24:29
Speaker 2: the bill. I thought that was a good moment for him.
24:31
Speaker 2: And he had been heating up by the time we
24:32
Speaker 2: got to that part of the debate. So I think
24:34
Speaker 2: it probably is yet another place where it kind of
24:36
Speaker 2: battles to a draw. I don't know that people buy
24:38
Speaker 2: all this anti-immigrant stuff from Vance. That moment where he said,
24:42
Speaker 2: I'm not blaming migrants for the cost of housing. I'm
24:43
Speaker 2: blaming Kamala Harris. I feel like that has to read
24:46
Speaker 2: people as absurd. This housing problem is a very old
24:49
Speaker 2: and long-growing problem. It's not something that began under Joe
24:52
Speaker 2: Biden and Kamala Harris. It's a generational failure. People were
24:55
Speaker 2: coming in under Donald Trump and Barack Obama and George W.
24:58
Speaker 6: Bush.
24:58
Speaker 2: Just the idea that you're going to lay this They
25:00
Speaker 2: even keep referring to it as the Kamala Harris administration.
25:03
Speaker 3: I just don't think people buy it. Yeah, I agree
25:06
Speaker 3: with that. And this is true in all things, but
25:08
Speaker 3: especially in immigration, they keep saying Kamala Harris let them
25:10
Speaker 3: in the country. Let these people bring fentanyl in the country.
25:13
Speaker 3: People don't think the vice president can do that. It's
25:16
Speaker 3: just simply not. It's absurd.
25:18
Speaker 1: President, you know, is the commander in chief, makes some laws,
25:22
Speaker 1: and then the vice president lets in fentanyl. Has the
25:25
Speaker 1: full authority to just let in drugs at the border.
25:27
Speaker 2: Yeah, but actually, you know, the vice president has one
25:31
Speaker 2: vote in the Senate, same as J.D. Vance, right? Like,
25:33
Speaker 2: where's J.D. Vance's record?
25:34
Speaker 6: J.D.
25:34
Speaker 2: Vance had the, like, audacity up there. Like, I think
25:37
Speaker 2: Republicans in the Congress let Donald Trump down.
25:40
Speaker 3: You've been in the Congress, right? You haven't passed a bill.
25:41
Speaker 2: You have nothing to your name.
25:42
Speaker 6: Yeah.
25:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, I appreciated Governor Walz's, like, decency in saying you're
25:47
Speaker 4: blaming migrants for everything and that's unfair and it's wrong
25:49
Speaker 4: and it's egregious. I think he maybe spent a little
25:51
Speaker 4: too much time doing that. I wanted him to pivot
25:52
Speaker 4: a harder and go on attack. I think the strongest
25:56
Speaker 4: messaging was when he talked about the bipartisan immigration bill
25:59
Speaker 4: that Republicans and Democrats came together to do in Congress
26:01
Speaker 4: and that Donald Trump tanked.
26:03
Speaker 3: I do think J.D.
26:04
Speaker 4: Whining about the fact checks will be another thing that
26:06
Speaker 4: spins out on social media. It'll be very useful for
26:09
Speaker 4: the Harris campaign in the future because J.D. famously says
26:12
Speaker 4: he likes to make up stories about immigration to advance
26:14
Speaker 4: his lies and agenda. So yeah, the CBS poll showed
26:18
Speaker 4: it was basically a draw on immigration, though they favored
26:22
Speaker 4: vance uh by a little bit.
26:24
Speaker 1: Yeah i was i and walls was trying to get
26:27
Speaker 1: there when he was talking about springfield because he was
26:28
Speaker 1: like what happened to this community and the bomb threats
26:31
Speaker 1: at school and stuff like that and and vance jumped
26:34
Speaker 1: in and be like oh you care about the immigrants
26:36
Speaker 1: you care about the migrants but not the people in
26:38
Speaker 1: springfield and i do think that walls could have been
26:40
Speaker 1: you know there's an opportunity there i think for harris
26:42
Speaker 1: and walls to be like this is like people in
26:44
Speaker 1: springfield are not better off because J.D. Vance and Donald
26:48
Speaker 1: Trump have been running around saying that Haitian migrants are
26:51
Speaker 1: eating dogs and cats. Like, they've had bomb threats. Like,
26:54
Speaker 1: the people who live in Springfield, who've lived there for
26:56
Speaker 1: a long time, like, they're not better off because of this.
26:59
Speaker 1: It's bullshit. And, like, they're just trying to divide people
27:02
Speaker 1: against each other. Like, I do think there's an immigration
27:04
Speaker 1: message that, you're right, Tommy, like, talks about what people
27:07
Speaker 1: are dealing with on both sides of this issue.
27:08
Speaker 3: I mean, it could go to all things, right? It's
27:10
Speaker 3: January 6th and the big lie, too.
27:11
Speaker 6: Yep.
27:12
Speaker 3: Donald Trump and J.D. Vance will say or do anything
27:14
Speaker 3: that will get them power no matter who it hurts.
27:16
Speaker 1: Exactly. Including the people who support them. Especially those people.
27:32
Speaker 1: One area where Vance didn't have a great answer was
27:34
Speaker 1: on whether we should have more gun safety laws. Let's listen.
27:37
Speaker 6: And I say this not loving the answer, because I
27:40
Speaker 6: don't want my kids to go to school in a
27:43
Speaker 6: school that feels unsafe or where there are visible signs
27:46
Speaker 6: of security. But I unfortunately think that we have to
27:49
Speaker 6: increase security in our schools. We have to make the
27:52
Speaker 6: doors lock better. We have to make the doors stronger.
27:54
Speaker 6: We've got to make the windows stronger.
27:56
Speaker 7: Well, I thank all the parents watching tonight. This is
27:59
Speaker 7: your biggest nightmare. Look, I got a 17-year-old and.
28:03
Speaker 7: And he witnessed a shooting at a community center playing volleyball.
28:06
Speaker 7: Those things don't leave you. The NRA, I was an
28:09
Speaker 7: NRA guy for a long time. They used to teach
28:10
Speaker 7: gun safety. I'm of an age where my shotgun was
28:14
Speaker 7: in my car so I could pheasant hunt after football practice.
28:16
Speaker 7: That's not where we live today. This idea of stigmatizing
28:19
Speaker 7: mental health, just because you have a mental health issue
28:22
Speaker 7: doesn't mean you're violent. And I think what we end
28:24
Speaker 7: up doing is we start looking for a scapegoat. Sometimes
28:27
Speaker 7: it just is the guns.
28:29
Speaker 1: Hearing it again, I think that might have been one
28:31
Speaker 1: of his best answers.
28:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, because also it was something he came back to.
28:34
Speaker 2: There was a lot of kind of, I don't know,
28:36
Speaker 2: it was a little bit of like kind of gauzy
28:39
Speaker 2: section of the debate when they were going back and
28:41
Speaker 2: forth on guns because J.D. Vance is like, oh, God,
28:44
Speaker 2: if only there was something, someone to stop my policies
28:46
Speaker 2: from causing all of these problems.
28:48
Speaker 3: Like there was a lot of like.
28:49
Speaker 2: I hate that we have to harden our schools like
28:51
Speaker 2: they're fucking military barracks, but there's just nothing we can do.
28:55
Speaker 2: And I wanted Tim Walz to hit him back, but
28:57
Speaker 2: then he made that answer I thought was very good
28:59
Speaker 2: because he finally kind of came back to like, it's
29:00
Speaker 2: not about how Finland has as many guns as we
29:02
Speaker 2: have or whatever the fuck we were talking about.
29:04
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's just about the guns. I mean, J.D.
29:06
Speaker 4: Vance caveated his answer for how to prevent children from
29:10
Speaker 4: getting shot by saying this answer sucks. We need to
29:14
Speaker 4: lock the doors.
29:15
Speaker 1: No, stronger doors.
29:16
Speaker 3: Stronger doors.
29:17
Speaker 1: Stronger windows.
29:18
Speaker 3: Fortify first grade classrooms.
29:20
Speaker 4: That is not a credible or serious answer. And I
29:22
Speaker 4: thought Walls was emotional. He told the story about his son.
29:25
Speaker 4: And then he credentialed himself as a gun owner who
29:28
Speaker 4: supports the Second Amendment. But he's not willing to do
29:30
Speaker 4: nothing in the face of children getting shot over and
29:34
Speaker 4: over and over again. I thought it was compelling and
29:36
Speaker 4: real and came from like a sincere place.
29:38
Speaker 1: And J.D.
29:39
Speaker 4: Vance just sounded like a smarmy prick.
29:41
Speaker 3: It's wild that both members of the Democratic ticket are
29:43
Speaker 3: gun owners and the Republican nominee can't buy a gun
29:45
Speaker 3: in some states.
29:48
Speaker 6: That's true.
29:49
Speaker 1: That is a fair point. All right. So toward the
29:52
Speaker 1: end of the debate, moderators asked about health care and
29:55
Speaker 1: Donald Trump's now infamous comment. that the Harris-Walls campaign turned
30:00
Speaker 1: into a big ad that they're running all over the country.
30:03
Speaker 1: It was out today. It's about health care. It's about
30:05
Speaker 1: Trump saying he has concepts of a plan for what
30:08
Speaker 1: to replace the ACA with after he kills it. Let's listen.
30:12
Speaker 6: I think you can make a really good argument that
30:14
Speaker 6: it salvaged Obamacare, which was doing disastrously until Donald Trump
30:18
Speaker 6: came along.
30:19
Speaker 7: He ran on the first thing he was going to
30:22
Speaker 7: do on day one was to repeal Obamacare. On day one,
30:26
Speaker 7: he tried to sign an executive order to repeal the ACA.
30:30
Speaker 7: He signed on to a lawsuit to repeal the ACA,
30:34
Speaker 7: but lost at the Supreme Court. And he would have
30:37
Speaker 7: repealed the ACA had it not been for the courage
30:40
Speaker 7: of John McCain to save that bill.
30:43
Speaker 6: Something that these guys do is they make a lot
30:45
Speaker 6: of claims about if Donald Trump becomes president, all of
30:49
Speaker 6: these terrible consequences are going to ensue. But in reality,
30:52
Speaker 6: Donald Trump was president, inflation was low, take-home pay was higher,
30:56
Speaker 6: and he saved the very program from a Democratic administration
31:00
Speaker 6: that was collapsing and would have collapsed absent his leadership.
31:05
Speaker 3: I mean, one of the most, one of those galling
31:07
Speaker 3: answers I've ever heard in a debate.
31:09
Speaker 2: I really, it's stunning.
31:11
Speaker 1: Did Trump save the ACA? It was Paul Ryan who
31:16
Speaker 1: was trying to repeal it. Trump saved it from Paul Ryan. Well,
31:20
Speaker 1: that whole answer, too.
31:21
Speaker 2: Like, I do think the part where he says, like, oh,
31:23
Speaker 2: I do worry about that framing, right? Like, oh, they
31:26
Speaker 2: say Trump is so dangerous, but things were actually better.
31:28
Speaker 2: Then you're like, on Obamacare itself, J.D. Vance does a
31:31
Speaker 2: sort of intellectual nonsense around it. Well, actually, concepts of
31:34
Speaker 2: plan is actually how you make laws. You have an
31:36
Speaker 2: idea and But you can go look.
31:39
Speaker 1: Guy's been running for president and president for the last
31:42
Speaker 1: nine years, still has no plan. Yeah, he's just waiting.
31:45
Speaker 2: Donald Trump was so horny for repealing the Obamacare that
31:48
Speaker 2: after the House passed the repeal, He didn't wait for
31:51
Speaker 2: it to pass the Senate to do what looked like
31:53
Speaker 2: a signing ceremony in the Rose Garden. He took a
31:56
Speaker 2: picture with all the Republican House members behind him to
31:58
Speaker 2: celebrate repealing Obamacare. They did not have a plan to
32:01
Speaker 2: replace it. The reason John McCain did a thumbs down
32:04
Speaker 2: on repealing Obamacare was not because he was in favor
32:06
Speaker 2: of Obamacare. It's because there was no plan to replace it.
32:09
Speaker 2: That was the reason.
32:10
Speaker 1: You say, Donald Trump's president, all these bad things are
32:12
Speaker 1: going to happen. He was president, and 20 million people
32:15
Speaker 1: didn't lose their health care because John McCain stopped them.
32:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they didn't do the bad things.
32:20
Speaker 1: Because Democrats and everyone else in the whole country hated it,
32:23
Speaker 1: and it was the least popular Donald Trump had ever
32:25
Speaker 1: been in his whole presidency, and he tried and tried
32:27
Speaker 1: and tried, and he failed because he's bad at governing.
32:33
Speaker 3: I think that answer was an example as to why J.D.
32:35
Speaker 3: Vance is a good debater and a shitty politician.
32:37
Speaker 1: Yeah.
32:38
Speaker 3: Because you see the intellectual exercise in his head. It's like,
32:40
Speaker 3: I'm not just going to say it didn't get repealed.
32:42
Speaker 3: I'm going to say he saved it because I'm going
32:44
Speaker 3: to take this arcane out.
32:46
Speaker 1: Of context statistic. Well, because Trump says that. And he
32:47
Speaker 1: knows he has to mirror Trump's line among this.
32:50
Speaker 3: And it's obviously not believable. And I agree with Lovett
32:53
Speaker 3: that the argument that Democrats say these bad things are
32:56
Speaker 3: going to happen when Trump is already president is one
32:59
Speaker 3: of their better, even if it's a very fallacious argument.
33:03
Speaker 3: on a lot of issues, like when we call him
33:04
Speaker 3: a dictator and he was president for four years, democracy
33:07
Speaker 3: didn't end, all of that. But the one issue where
33:09
Speaker 3: it is the worst argument is this one, because he
33:12
Speaker 3: tried in every way possible to repeal the ACA in
33:15
Speaker 3: the most visible way possible throughout his entire presidency.
33:18
Speaker 2: And by the way, succeeded in getting rid of a
33:21
Speaker 2: really important part of healthcare, which is reproductive healthcare for
33:23
Speaker 2: millions upon millions of women.
33:25
Speaker 1: Also, you know, they can go interview a bunch of
33:27
Speaker 1: Republicans in Congress and they can all say, look, if
33:29
Speaker 1: Donald Trump wins again, we don't have the appetite to
33:31
Speaker 1: go through ACA repeal again, blah, blah, blah. Even if
33:34
Speaker 1: they don't do that, even if they don't have the
33:36
Speaker 1: votes to repeal the Affordable Care Act, which of course
33:39
Speaker 1: we know they're going to try to do, but even
33:40
Speaker 1: if they don't, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris passed in
33:44
Speaker 1: the Inflation Reduction Act subsidies for the ACA that mean
33:48
Speaker 1: that millions of people around this country are paying lower
33:51
Speaker 1: premiums than they were before because of those subsidies. They
33:54
Speaker 1: are going to expire. at the end of 2025. And
33:57
Speaker 1: Donald Trump and Republicans have already said they do not
33:59
Speaker 1: want to extend them. And so even if nothing happens,
34:02
Speaker 1: three and a half million people will lose their health
34:04
Speaker 1: insurance just if Donald Trump doesn't do anything, just if
34:06
Speaker 1: he wins. And, you know, so like the idea that, oh,
34:09
Speaker 1: Donald Trump, nothing's going to happen. Like, no, everyone's going to,
34:12
Speaker 1: people are going to pay more for health care if
34:13
Speaker 1: Donald Trump wins. Guaranteed. Anyway, I think, I do think
34:18
Speaker 1: that's one that the Harris campaign, I thought that was
34:20
Speaker 1: going to be the moment that they were going to
34:22
Speaker 1: push tomorrow, were it not for the, the January 6th
34:24
Speaker 1: answer that came afterwards, but I, you know, they've been
34:27
Speaker 1: doing the concepts of a plan ad today. I kind
34:29
Speaker 1: of think that health, there'll be a healthcare push in
34:31
Speaker 1: the next week or there should be, you know. All right.
34:34
Speaker 1: Final thoughts on this debate. What do the campaigns do
34:37
Speaker 1: with this debate? Anything? The Harris campaign talks about January
34:40
Speaker 1: 6th moment, the Vance campaign. I don't know what the
34:43
Speaker 1: Vance campaign.
34:45
Speaker 6: Yeah.
34:45
Speaker 3: The Vance campaign.
34:46
Speaker 2: I feel like, yeah, I think it's, I think it's
34:47
Speaker 2: pushing out that, that democracy clip. I do think that,
34:51
Speaker 2: that it's worth going through like, There was a few
34:54
Speaker 2: times about the debate where where J.D. Vance basically kind
34:57
Speaker 2: of invents a version of Donald Trump that doesn't doesn't exist.
35:00
Speaker 2: It's obviously not as important as the comment on democracy
35:02
Speaker 2: we're all talking about. But there was this moment where
35:06
Speaker 2: Vance basically says, oh, Trump peacefully transferred power. And all
35:10
Speaker 2: Donald Trump has ever said is he wanted the rules
35:12
Speaker 2: to be enforced fairly. It reminded me of like the
35:15
Speaker 2: biggest creeps on the fucking Internet. during Gamergate, attacking women
35:19
Speaker 2: online and being like, this is about ethics and video
35:21
Speaker 2: game journalism. Oh yeah, that's what it was about. It
35:24
Speaker 2: was about the fair administration of the electorals. And there
35:28
Speaker 2: was that moment, there was a moment on healthcare where
35:30
Speaker 2: I do think you can go and just take Donald
35:31
Speaker 2: Trump's absolute worst comments and take J.D. Vance's lies about
35:34
Speaker 2: them and put them side by side and I think
35:35
Speaker 2: it'd be pretty powerful.
35:37
Speaker 1: Do you think we get another debate? Donald Trump came
35:41
Speaker 1: out tonight and said, again, no more debates.
35:44
Speaker 4: I don't know why you guys think that there might
35:45
Speaker 4: be another debate.
35:46
Speaker 1: I mean, I think if I don't.
35:48
Speaker 4: I don't think Trump wants to do it really or
35:50
Speaker 4: else he'd do it. His staff obviously doesn't want to
35:52
Speaker 4: do it because he was so terrible the last time.
35:54
Speaker 1: Yeah.
35:54
Speaker 3: Well, the Harris campaign wants it.
35:55
Speaker 4: They're desperate for it. The media is desperate for it.
35:58
Speaker 4: Everyone wants to do it except for the Trumps.
35:59
Speaker 3: I mean, we saw CNN, Caitlin Collins just hammering Donald
36:02
Speaker 3: Trump Jr.
36:02
Speaker 1: Over it. Yes. Donald Trump Jr.
36:04
Speaker 4: Was such a fucking whiny little baby that he said
36:06
Speaker 4: that even Fox couldn't fairly moderate the debate because they
36:09
Speaker 4: would try to appease the left.
36:10
Speaker 1: As they always are.
36:11
Speaker 3: You know Fox. Pathetic weakling. I do like the, like J.D.
36:16
Speaker 2: Vance basically kind of inventing a nicer version of Trump,
36:18
Speaker 2: Donald Trump pulling down the 60 Minutes interview. I think
36:21
Speaker 2: all of that is the same reason they won't want
36:23
Speaker 2: to put him in front of another debate, which is
36:24
Speaker 2: the Donald Trump that doesn't exist and isn't real is
36:27
Speaker 2: the best version they can have out there. But I
36:29
Speaker 2: do wonder if 48 hours of coverage of how great J.D.
36:32
Speaker 2: Vance did and how J.D. Vance outshined Trump and how
36:36
Speaker 2: he didn't really defend Trump and was really more about Vance.
36:39
Speaker 2: I'm curious how that affects.
36:42
Speaker 1: uh, uh, the narcissist.
36:43
Speaker 6: Yeah.
36:43
Speaker 1: It's always hard to get inside Donald Trump's lizard brain.
36:46
Speaker 1: And like he, I was thinking that, you know, maybe
36:48
Speaker 1: he's like, I don't want JD Vance to have the
36:50
Speaker 1: last word here, but, um, it's also, they don't have
36:53
Speaker 1: that much time. And it's clear that the Trump campaign
36:56
Speaker 1: thinks they are sitting on a lead that they are,
36:59
Speaker 1: that they are doing well. They're doing well in the
37:01
Speaker 1: polls that JD, like, I think they're buying their, their
37:03
Speaker 1: spin on this, which is why they probably don't want
37:06
Speaker 1: to do another debate.
37:07
Speaker 3: I think that's probably right.
37:08
Speaker 1: Now, whether they're right or not, who knows? But like,
37:10
Speaker 1: I think that's probably what they think.
37:11
Speaker 4: One thing I do hope that comes out of this
37:13
Speaker 4: debate is according to the CNN snap poll, Tim Walz's
37:16
Speaker 4: favorability went from plus 14 before the debate to plus
37:20
Speaker 4: 37 after the debate. I think that speaks well to
37:23
Speaker 4: his character, his presentation, the tone of the debate. The
37:26
Speaker 4: fact that he talked about things that people cared about
37:29
Speaker 4: in a way that connected.
37:30
Speaker 1: That most voters don't know what Tiananmen Square is.
37:32
Speaker 4: That most voters don't give a shit what happened in 1989.
37:35
Speaker 4: And so I think it just speaks to the fact
37:37
Speaker 4: that he's an asset and we should get him out
37:39
Speaker 4: there and he should be doing a lot more interviews
37:41
Speaker 4: and be on the trail and doing things. I understand
37:43
Speaker 4: that they were probably getting through debate prep because that
37:46
Speaker 4: was far more important. And it also prepares you for
37:49
Speaker 4: future interviews. But now I'd love to see just Harris
37:52
Speaker 4: and Walz hit the gas and be a little less
37:55
Speaker 4: risk averse, do some more stuff, and just, you know.
37:57
Speaker 3: Well, we had Connell Harris on the All the Smoke podcast.
37:59
Speaker 1: Which is a great interview.
38:01
Speaker 3: Awesome.
38:01
Speaker 1: One of the best interviews I've ever seen.
38:03
Speaker 4: All the Smoke podcast, if folks don't know, is two
38:05
Speaker 4: former NBA players. Usually they focus on basketball, but it
38:08
Speaker 4: was an amazing interview.
38:10
Speaker 3: But they were members of the We Believe Warriors team
38:13
Speaker 3: from 2006. And she was....
38:15
Speaker 1: She was funny. She was thoughtful. She was very comfortable.
38:19
Speaker 1: It was just a fantastic interview. I agree. And especially
38:22
Speaker 1: if there's not going to be another debate, which I
38:23
Speaker 1: don't think there will be, they're going to need to
38:26
Speaker 1: find ways to break through. And not break through all
38:29
Speaker 1: the coverage because not everyone watches everything at the same
38:32
Speaker 1: time anymore, but just having more opportunities to get out there.
38:37
Speaker 4: Especially on stuff like all the smoke pod where they're not...
38:41
Speaker 4: The people who watch that show or listen to that
38:43
Speaker 4: show are probably not consuming a ton of political news.
38:46
Speaker 1: It's a sports show.
38:47
Speaker 4: Get in front of those people who are not going
38:49
Speaker 4: to hear about you in other places.
38:50
Speaker 3: Tim Walls was on the We Rate Dogs YouTube channel
38:52
Speaker 3: the other day. That's great.
38:54
Speaker 1: I noticed that.
38:54
Speaker 3: It sounds ridiculous, but it's actually quite smart. Maybe they
38:56
Speaker 3: could host a third debate. Just like little boops.
39:01
Speaker 1: Okay. A couple quick things before we go. Voter registration
39:04
Speaker 1: deadlines are next week in South Carolina, Arizona, Florida, Georgia, Indiana,
39:09
Speaker 1: and more.
39:09
Speaker 6: So.
39:11
Speaker 1: Make sure that you're registered, your family and friends are registered. VoteSaveAmerica.com
39:16
Speaker 1: slash vote. And for everyone who's willing to do more,
39:19
Speaker 1: we have a critical volunteer ask. If you're in states
39:22
Speaker 1: like Michigan, Pennsylvania, Georgia, North Carolina, and Arizona, we need
39:26
Speaker 1: you to sign up to be a poll watcher. Republicans
39:28
Speaker 1: are ramping up attacks on election day. security in states
39:30
Speaker 1: like Georgia. Trump-backed officials want to hand count all ballots
39:34
Speaker 1: despite warnings it breaks state law. So you can sign
39:37
Speaker 1: up with Vote Save America now at fairfight.com slash LFGV.
39:44
Speaker 1: This message has been paid for by Vote Save America.
39:46
Speaker 1: You can learn more at votesaveamerica.com. And this ad has
39:48
Speaker 1: not been authorized by any candidate or candidates committee. Also,
39:51
Speaker 1: we're going to be on tour this Sunday, October 6th,
39:54
Speaker 1: our last show of the year and our biggest venue yet,
39:57
Speaker 1: the Met Philadelphia. You sound like Trump. I just read
40:01
Speaker 1: what they write for me. We'll be joined by Simone
40:05
Speaker 1: Sanders Townsend is going to be our guest host. And
40:08
Speaker 1: then we have Senator Bob Casey is going to be
40:11
Speaker 1: our guest who's in a tight race there. Get your
40:13
Speaker 1: tickets now at Crooked.com slash events. And for a limited time,
40:15
Speaker 1: we're giving 15% off all non-VIP tickets with code PODSAVE15.
40:21
Speaker 1: That's our show for tonight. Dan and I will be
40:23
Speaker 1: back in your feet on Friday morning with a new
40:25
Speaker 1: show featuring Crooked's own rising star, Stacey Abrams. Got me
40:31
Speaker 1: right at the end there. Bye, everyone.
40:33
Speaker 6: Bye.
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