Latest / The Family Teams Podcast / Fathers Are High-Agency Men With Generational Vision

Transcript

Fathers Are High-Agency Men With Generational Vision · The Family Teams Podcast

• 0:00
  I've been just racking my brain to try to figure out how do I describe this Abrahamic aspect of fatherhood that can help correct the playful dad from thinking that's the end goal. And I think playful dads are important. Please play with your kids. That is not the best way to describe it. There's something else.
• 0:20
  Hi, welcome to the Family Teams podcast. Our goal here is to help your family become a multi-generational team on mission by providing you with biblically rooted concepts, tools, and rhythms. Your hosts are Jeremy Pryor and Jefferson Bethke, and we can't wait to chat about all things family. Hey, everybody. Welcome back to the Family Teams podcast. I'm here with Kurt Storing from Vancouver, Canada. Kurt, how are you doing today? Hi.
• 0:47
  Do it well. By the way, for those of you guys listening to this, Kurt is, he does all the editing on the Family Teens podcast. So if you're ever looking for a podcast producer, editor, Kurt's the best. It was called Proclaim Podcasting. It is Proclaim Podcasting. Thank you, Jeremy.
• 1:02
  Reach out to Kurt. I mean, I tell everybody, please do yourself a favor. So Kurt and I are going to talk about some things. Obviously, we like to hit, kind of go back and forth between some fatherhood conversations, some motherhood conversations. And so fatherhood conversation, our friend Tyler Graham, he's a part of Family Inc. Tyler's got an amazing...
• 1:24
  uh, content he puts on LinkedIn about fatherhood. Absolutely. Love the stuff Tyler puts out. Anyway, he, he shared this, uh, this video from Steve, uh, is Steve Irwin, right? He's the, what was he called? The, um, you remember his crocodile hunter or something? Yes. The crocodile hunter. Yeah.
• 1:39
  Oh my gosh. Okay. So, but really kind of pulled on our heartstrings with this, this clip. I want to play this for Kurt and I to discuss, and then we're going to hit one other topic. I want to talk a little bit about high agency fatherhood. So we're going to tease that apart in a little bit, but first, Steve Irwin, I'll share this. Is there anything in this world that would want to make me give away what I'm doing now? Yes. Yes, there is.
• 2:09
  When my children can take the football that I call wildlife conservation and run it up. When they're ready to run up our mission, I will gladly step aside. And I guarantee you it will be the proudest moment of my life. And my job will be done then and only then will I know that I have achieved my ultimate goal.
• 2:35
  to be able to stand aside and let them run up my mission. All right. So, man, there's a couple of things that I really find moving and interesting about what Steve Irwin is saying here. So I think on the moving side, he's saying, look,
• 2:58
  When you have a really clear mission as a family team and somebody were to ask you, how do I pry this out of your fingers and cause you to say, no, I would be willing to give this up. And it's really interesting. And this is why I think thinking about this from a multi-generational family perspective makes so much sense. And that is you're going to die anyway. And if you really care about your mission, what greater thing can you do than involve your children at the ground level as early as possible?
• 3:26
  So that when you pass on, they continue to carry the torch. You pass the baton on. And it's actually far better for your mission to hand it off properly to your children. Because your season's over. And of course, Steve Irwin had that tragic death. I think he was killed by, I think it was a stingray. I remember that a number of years back. But it does...
• 3:54
  I do think his son has continued in the process of carrying on the torch of the family mission, which is unbelievable to think about. So, yeah, I want to maybe get your reaction to that. And then also, I'd love to, I know that this also sort of stirs up another conversation I hear a lot about from families, and that is, is it appropriate?
• 4:15
  you know, even when you have a family mission that's this intense, is it appropriate to really raise your children in such a way that they, they feel the pressure? What if they have their own dreams with their own family mission? So that's a very legitimate question. I want to talk about that because I think it does get in the way, but first I just want to like,
• 4:31
  hang out for a minute around, you know, just, you can see how moved he was by this possibility. Kurt, why do you think that is? Like, what does that start for you? I'm curious what you think of that. Yeah. I'm glad you said the second part of this, because that was my question coming in, knowing that we want to talk about this. It's like,
• 4:49
  Yes. And now having, you know, I've got four kids and it's like one of those ones are probably not going to want to take the football. And what that brings up for me, you know, maybe before I could just set the stage for the reaction, is that there's a very I think there's a difference between an eternal and a temporal mission here. And for someone like Steve Irwin, I think is a Steve first name.
• 5:15
  I think so. Yeah. So Steve Irwin, you know, he's got a very temporal mission. Robert Irwin? Is that his son? Oh, nice. Man, you know what? For all the 90s kids like me listening who, you know, can't even remember Steve Irwin's name, I apologize. But I think that like he was probably not a Christian. You know, I don't know. Who am I to say? But...
• 5:37
  I think there is probably a difference between our mission is to make disciples, is to make sure my kids love the Lord, is to make, you know, whatever that looks like in the kingdom. And separately, we do that through this temporal mission.
• 5:54
  And I think that part becomes a little bit more malleable for them to choose. And I've heard you talk about this before, their new family unit within the broader family unit when they get married. But as long as that eternal mission, which is we love God, we serve God, bar none, then
• 6:10
  That's sort of the thing that I think I relate to most in this. And so maybe we can tease that out. But the specific, like the reaction I get to this is I want to, I want to both love my mission and my kids as much as this guy did from just breaking down thinking about it. And, and, you know, that's a, that's maybe more of a psychological, emotional thing on my part. It's like, I feel like there's more I can do to just love what I'm doing and,
• 6:35
  and my kids enough to break down an interview talking about it. So I don't know if anybody else needs to hear that, but I think I need to think on that a little bit more personally. Yeah. Yeah. It's what's really interesting. And this is this is where, you know, I think individualism and sort of family culture can can kind of either collide or converge depending on what happens in each individual family.
• 7:00
  But to have somebody like this guy have such a clear family mission, I tend to believe that most of our children and most people listening to this
• 7:10
  do not have necessarily in their heart an assignment that's super narrow, like this guy does, Steve Irwin. Wildlife conservation, he dedicated his life to this mission, and he brought his children along. And I think one of the things that people believe that makes this difficult is, no, everybody magically has their own obsession, and it relates to work, and it's their prime identity.
• 7:38
  And one of the things that that seems to betray or not take any consideration properly is the fact that most people I think are generalists. They have, they don't necessarily, they want to give their life to a specific mission, but they, if you ask them, like, what is, what is the, what is the driving? You have this, like this small, super specific world changing mission that you're obsessed with. Most people just don't have that. Um, yeah.
• 8:06
  But man, would they love to be a part of a team that has that? And would they love to work with a father that has that? And would they love to carry on a mission like that? And so I think that because that's where most people are coming from, what a gift to give to your children. If you are a father with one of these very specific missions to really articulate that and to lead your family into that while your children are still young enough to catch the vision. Yeah.
• 8:30
  And so I think that's a very positive, beautiful thing. And I think when you hear him articulate that and see his son take that on, you can take a step back and say, wow, imagine a world full of families like that, where we can actually conquer or deal with massive, massive issues.
• 8:49
  that require multiple generations to actually achieve in any meaningful way. And the reason you give that to a family is because families are multigenerational. And right now, the only thing that is multigenerational are institutions like business entities. And if families are resetting every single generation,
• 9:12
  then you can only give meaningful multi-generational missions to NGOs or to a business entity or to a church or something like that. And this is something I think I fundamentally am trying to push hard against within the Christian world, because we are told in Genesis 1.28 that the family is given a multi-generational mission. And if you don't think about family as a multi-generational entity, then you can't take on multi-generational missions. And this has, I think, been devastating
• 9:41
  has been stuck in a pattern of single-generation families that cannot take on multi-generational assignments. And because of that, we are giving ourselves to institutions outside of the family because we actually see that they make more progress because they have the ability. You can at least imagine this church I planted. I remember I worked with a pastor, for example, once.
• 10:04
  And, um, you know, his kids, he raised his kids, you know, like normal Western dad and they all were off doing their own things, but he was, you know, as a church planting pastor, obsessed with legacy and succession and paying off this building and handing off the next generation as a, as a five one C three institution, right. Within our society, um, a nonprofit or a church entity. And the reason he, I think was doing that was, was, um,
• 10:28
  understandable because he had no hope that his family would function in this way. And families in the West don't function this way. Right. So I think, yeah, I'm curious what your thoughts about that. It does feel like to me, it starts with trying to answer the question, are families, are families stewards of multi-generational missions or do only institutions get to steward multi-generational missions?
• 10:51
  Yeah, I've heard you talk about this in a couple of recent podcasts, and it's so sad that we outsource this like we do all things parenting these days. And even if, because I'm just trying to run this back, like, do I expect me to have a mission this big? Sort of, because it's how I think. But do I expect everyone to have a mission like Steve Irwin has, like massive world changing? I don't think that's fair, but...
• 11:17
  why can't we have levels to this where at least we're doing some form of building a generational idea as a family, even if it's just locally, even if it's just a small thing. And that actually was important for me to hear from someone at church a couple of days ago, actually, who works in a
• 11:40
  And it turns out that he's not entrepreneurial. And so when I was asking him all these questions, he's like, I just work there. And I'm actually really glad to just work there. I don't even want to own it necessarily. And it was like, oh, OK, but he's so grateful that his grandfather had the vision, even if it was a local service, whatever kind of business it is. So I think if we talk about levels to this, yes, you can go ahead and have the Steve Irwin thing.
• 12:06
  But it's also fine to have something else where we're like, you know what? We are just the pie people in our neighborhood. We give pies to every new person who moves in here. And our neighborhood is better because we take responsibility for the hospitality of the neighborhood. Like, that's a great vision because you're impacting all the lives. And I know in, you know, a little sneak peek of an episode coming up, you guys talk about the quiet life.
• 12:30
  And that is so convicting for me personally, having laid down this last project I was doing, just not being on social media, being quiet. And the question I keep asking is, is this enough? Like, is this what God has got for me? And it's like, right now it is because I'm advancing my family in different areas than being the vocal noise piece out front. I'm sort of rallying the troops around a mission that's
• 12:54
  Honestly, I hope a little bit more centered on God, but it doesn't need to be look at all these big things. It's look at how we have our vision and mission that touches the people that we're interacting with every single day, that has a deeper connection rather than a shotgun approach to just hitting a thousand people, but only one time. So it's almost like taking it vertical instead of horizontal, which I think most people would default to thinking the vision has to be. So I don't know if that makes sense, but that's where I'm coming from.
• 13:25
  Have you ever considered starting a family business so you can spend more time working as a family team? We've started a year-long coaching program called Family Inc. where you get weekly coaching with Jeremy, access to our video training for launching family businesses, and lots of ideas for businesses to start that are working for other family teams. Head over to familyteams.com and click Family Inc. to learn more or to set up a strategy call with Jeremy to see if this might be a good fit for you.
• 13:57
  Yeah, that does stir up something for me because I just had this conversation with April a couple hours ago. We were just talking about this and we were trying to decide whether or not to do this kind of big initiative that was going to bring a lot more people into our orbit and require a lot of work. And I was just praying about it this morning and I was like, I just feel like the Lord said, no, just disciple three more guys. And I talked to April and I was like, hey.
• 14:18
  So we already were recruiting people for this thing. But what do you think about, what if we just double down our family on just local discipleship? I think, and she really, that really resonated with her. And I said, you know, it is sort of counterintuitive, but it is very similar to the whole process of deciding to buckle down and have children.
• 14:36
  you're having children and you're saying, I want to really invest in these kids. And that is ultimately going to have so much of a greater impact, this quiet life of raising children and making disciples. And so I think that I've, likewise, to the process you've been through, Kurt, I've been really wrestling with this question of, you know,
• 15:00
  I really want to be careful to prioritize the small, the quiet, the things and the things that multiply. And that's why to me, I find it so helpful to understand this fruitful, multiply, philosophy, do, and rule that there's a process that our families go through and that you have to, it is like the foundation of it is fruitfulness. Yeah.
• 15:23
  And, um, and so there, there's this obsession, which is you, you're, you know, you're fruitful, you, you scale, you, you multiply, you scale, you fill, you scale. It's like, you always are trying to scale everything. You're trying to get more and more attention. Um, and I think that, I think that, and this, this is part of what I think, you know, I do think you get to be careful of.
• 15:41
  In this context of this guy, he'd had this world-changing vision, and it is really beautiful, and I want to celebrate the fact that this dad, Steve Irwin, had to give her family a vision that big and that amazing.
• 15:56
  It is incredible. But maybe it's more rare than common to have this giant world-changing vision. And oftentimes I find that even the people that tend to have those, oftentimes there's something about their story that's...
• 16:13
  that really God is giving them this bigger vision. And in the meantime, most of us are buckling down to like, how do we become fruitful? How do we raise children? How do we multiply? How do we raise children to have children and therefore get to the third generation in health and in strength? And then how do we make disciples? How do we have spiritual children who are fruitful, spiritual children who are multiplying? I mean, that...
• 16:40
  So few families are even doing that basic stuff. And so I think that kind of then addressing the second question we're trying to answer here, which is, is there a sense that a narrow family mission can can subtly create disunity in a family team? In other words, like, let's say Robert Irwin is super excited about dad's mission. But, you know, there's another son or another daughter or.
• 17:09
  who they're not as called to that. And do they feel like a less a part of the family? Do they feel like less attached? And I think that's the concern that a lot of us in the West, people that, you know, and I think there's a legitimate conversation around, how do we make sure that we're not creating a culture in our family that really tilts the family culture towards certain children who feel like they really belong? Yeah.
• 17:37
  and certain kids who feel like they belong less. That's a really easy thing to accidentally do. The way that we try to combat that as a family is we basically say, look, guys, here are some family missions that we feel called to. Our family, there's three in particular that we're very zeroed in on. Restoring the biblical blueprint of family, getting to 1,000 disciple-making households in Cincinnati, and blessing Israel through unique assignments God's giving our family.
• 18:07
  in the Middle East. Those are three things that constantly are coming up, constantly we're feeling called to, and we're engaging our kids in. Part of what I want to communicate to each of my children is that's just the beginning. That's what our generation feels called to. If any of you guys want to pick up any of those batons, please join us. But man, if God gives you another mission, we're all going. We're all going to support you, and we're going to leverage the resources of the family.
• 18:34
  to the same degree as we possibly can to maximize that God-given mission you're given. Now, while we have these unique missions, we're trying to inspire every single member of our family to be fruitful and multiply both physically and spiritually. And that actually comes first. To me, even before these kind of more unique missions that our family feels called to or assignments, I'm not comfortable with any assignment that is going to somehow compromise
• 19:01
  our ability to be fruitful and multiply physically or spiritually. In other words, to either have children and grandchildren and to have spiritual children and grandchildren to make disciples who make disciples. So that's how I kind of try to resolve the problem of having this powerful family mission that might subtly create some disunity. But yeah, how do you think about that, Kurt? Does that make sense? How would you maybe moderate that or any thoughts about how to handle that?
• 19:25
  Yeah, I think this is a very healthy tension for a father to intentionally consider. I know even in setting the direction of family vision, family values, it's often the father who writes them down, who has the time, who's thinking about this. And it's very easy to sort of railroad that through the family meetings and be like, you know, I already did this. So this is what we're going to do.
• 19:50
  And in my situation, like my wife and kids needed me to do that. And I ended up bringing it to them and asking them what they thought, any questions, any suggestions. What else did I miss? And they all had feedback. And we generally agreed on, you know, five of the six and then added one and changed one, deleted one, whatever.
• 20:06
  But that's a tension that I'm holding between going like 80% on my vision and leaving room for them to come into it while also not being so rigid that it's like dad's setting the mission. Dad's being such a good dad because he's got all this energy on it. And the kids are like...
• 20:22
  I don't care about this at all. And so like, I need to have the force behind my leadership there without being a tyrant in a sense. And I wondered about this particular mission with Steve Irwin, maybe the most important part of it was his mood. Like I would work with guys and I would tell them like a lot of our mood as a father is what leads the home. Like if I come into my house, even if I've had a bad day and I'm like,
• 20:46
  hey guys, everyone's like, dad's excited. And I could be having a miserable time, but my mood is what gives everyone else the right, as it were, to also match me. And so it could, maybe they don't want to be wildlife conservations, but they're like, dad was excited about mission. Like, what's my thing to be excited about? And it's the mood behind the actual action itself that drives maybe what they're going to do. And so it's almost like,
• 21:11
  it's almost going back to that sort of eternal or, or higher level draw for them that it's going to be something, but it's because dad brought the energy initially, even if it's small. And I think that's really important maybe for, for all dads to think about is like, what is that thing that you're going to do? But,
• 21:28
  But more important than that, bring the kids into the process and do all the family teams things, have the meetings, have the level 10 meetings with the spouse, have like all these things where they see why you're doing everything and they see that you're doing them. Show them your tithing, show them your giving, show them when you're volunteering and they'll see that it's a driving force of the family to pick a mission and then to go do that well for God's glory. Like that's maybe how I'm starting to see this. It doesn't matter what it is. It's that you're doing it and then how you're doing it.
• 21:58
  I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think that's the thing that's. We, there's always sort of this assumption that, you know, every individual, um, has sort of the same, you know, psychologists call it ego strength. So you're recalling talking about it was like dad energy. That is not true. People are different and the person, and this kind of dovetails into where we're headed in the next conversation. Dads do need to bring a certain kind of energy. I love what you said about mood in the house. There's a patriarchal vision. That's so exciting and intoxicating. Yeah.
• 22:27
  to wives and mothers, to children, to sons and daughters. We need to be bringing that kind of energy around something. And maybe it's, again, we're given a general mission by Jesus to go and make disciples of all nations. And so when our family sees our excitement and then rallies everyone around that, that is really exciting. And if your son or daughter or your wife comes to you with a vision, a mission, a
• 22:53
  That you're like, wow, that needs to be incorporated into our family. I still think it should be led with that dad energy, that patriarchal vision. You're going to say, yes, guys, we are all getting around our daughter or your mom's vision around this. This is so exciting. This is a part of our family's mission. But I do think the dad energy is absolutely powerful.
• 23:12
  you know, priceless and critical component to that succeeding and capturing and exciting the hearts of the kids. It all starts, of course, with the dad having a personal connection with each of each of his children and a deep connection with his wife so that when he brings that kind of energy, there is not that eye rolling frustration, that sense that, okay,
• 23:32
  This is really about dad. This is really dad's thing. He doesn't really care about us. That's where this gets toxic. There's a very toxic version of this, and I definitely want to call that out. But man, God designed it well. There's a way in which this is so amazing. You can just sense the heart that Steve Irwin had in this clip for his children. It's that. That's the mood.
• 23:53
  You add that with the vision of the mission, like you were describing, Kurt, man, that's the one-two punch there that I think is going to get the family just rocking around a mission. All right. Yeah, that was a fun conversation. Need a blueprint to revise your family to be a multi-generational team on mission? The book Family Revision by Jeremy Pryor is the book that summarizes all the big picture ideas you hear on this podcast. Available on Amazon or familyteams.com.
• 24:25
  Now, I'm really excited to share this clip. We just have a few more minutes, but I want to get your take on this, Kurt, because I've been constantly been asked, what is the difference between the modern Western dad and the patriarch in the scriptures or in the Bible? Like the idea of a father, how do you, you know, and so I've constantly tried to contrast the playful father from like Bluey or other depictions that our culture is excited about and, you know, sort of Abraham.
• 24:54
  And I saw this clip the other day and I was like, oh my gosh, I don't know if I've ever heard anyone articulate more clearly what I think is the difference. And they weren't trying to do this. This is Chris Williamson and Eric Weinstein having a conversation about what they're calling
• 25:11
  um, high agency. And I was like, this is what I'm talking about. And it's really hard because there really aren't good words for this. And Eric Weinstein actually invented this phrase, um, I guess, um, several years ago and it's been bandied around. And so they have a quick conversation about it. I'm going to play this clip and then just, uh, uh, give you a couple of thoughts and look Kurt to get your reaction to this as well. So.
• 25:30
  Again, George has this question he uses to work out who is the highest agency person in your entire life. Tell me. You're trapped in a South American prison. LAUGHTER
• 25:42
  This one is. It's one of those 5,000 people in there. It's 100 people per room. There's half the number of bunk beds. Everyone's got a skinhead. You have 24 hours to get out, and you've got one phone call. Who do you ring? It's hard in my case. Why? I happen to be...
• 26:08
  The brother of Brett Weinstein. I happen to have worked for Peter Thiel. My wife is a total supermind. I've got no shortage of these people. You only get one phone call. I know. I can't figure out who. Most people, the thing that I worry about is that most people have no one. Yep.
• 26:30
  But, you know, it has to do with people who are extremely generative and high trust and can readjust their thinking because no solution is clear. But yeah, I think a different version of that question is, is your problem which call to place or that you have no one you can even think of?
• 27:01
  I love this framing. So I would say, you know, what Eric Weinstein is wrestling with there, do you have no one to call? And again, I see this as you have no father.
• 27:14
  Your father is designed to be the highest agency person in your life. And so part of what I'm coaching fathers to do from the time they first start having children or even before that when they're young boys is we're trying to raise sons to be high agency men because fathers need to be maximally high agency people.
• 27:35
  Because they're leading, they already have a team that they, and there's going to be an unlimited and unspecified number of complex problems that are going to be put on their shoulders. You know, hopefully it's not your kid calling you from a South American prison saying, dad, I got to get out. I got 24 hours. I mean, but, but, but like what I feel like I try to accumulate in my life as a father is the, is every kind of capital to be able to address those kinds of problems. And I'm like, please call me.
• 28:04
  Like I will be on the plane and I'm going to bring to bear every resource of this family to rescue you. Like that is fatherhood 101. Like, and I am accumulating relational capital. I'm accumulating spiritual capital. I'm accumulating financial capital.
• 28:22
  I'm accumulating intellectual capital so that I can properly lead my family and I can stay as high agency as possible. Not for my benefit, not because I'm trying to cultivate some kind of independent identity, but because I know these problems are coming for my family and somebody needs to be there to be able to help solve these problems. And it's not that women, of course, can't also be high agency, but fathers must be high agency. Yeah.
• 28:49
  Um, that, that's the difference. And, and so when I see depictions of father, of low agency fatherhood, when I see the bluey dad and I'm like, that guy, he's a lot of fun, but my gosh, if you're in a South American prison, I'm not calling that guy. We're not going to be, it's not pretend time anymore.
• 29:05
  Like I need a father in that moment and these problems are coming. And so we have to be preparing men to be men, fathers to be fathers. And so that's, that's the essence. And I'm like, it's been so hard to describe this properly. And so in these conversations, so when I heard this, this phrase high agency, and then this awesome thought experiment in the South American prison, I'm like, if any father is listening to this, please make it your goal to be the guy that your children call.
• 29:32
  Um, that is what it means to be cultivating a fatherhood and on all the different things you're trying to do. And I know that when you're like 25 years old and you're, you're listening to this, you're like, I'm not high agency. I know, I know that your, your job is to get there. You've got some decades in front of you. Like don't make decisions that are going to take away your agency, take away your ability to maximally make decisions that are in the best interest of your family. Okay.
• 29:57
  And so when I see guys giving away their agency in a way that is really going to be dangerous for their future family, that's the alarm bell that's going off in my head. And you see this with Abraham. Right after we introduced to Abraham, Lot is carried away in this terrible tragedy. And then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, Abraham gets the 318 trained men in his household. And he literally goes out there and conquers these five kings in order to bring back his nephew.
• 30:21
  Like it literally describes a very similar scenario to this thought experiment. And that's what I'm telling people. Like, read that chapter of the Bible. Avram, the exalted father, is this high agency guy. And when we're given a depiction of what that actually looked like, when the scriptures try to give us the first depiction of that, this is what it shows us. This dad who's able to rescue really his adopted son from this terrible tragedy. And that's what we need to be prepared to do.
• 30:45
  So anyway, yeah, I get really stirred up about this one because I'm finally like, oh, finally, somebody is describing what is clearly, you know, the biblical father in a way that I can actually recognize and maybe share with other people. But yeah, Kurt, what are your thoughts about this one?
• 30:59
  Yeah, no, I like this a lot because this is one of the things I was struggling against as well. It's like there's something wrong with what we've been talking about with fatherhood, but what do you do? And, you know, you use Abraham a lot, which I think is the right way to do it. But it's also important that we bring this into the modern parlance in a sense, because so many people are so disconnected from history and from biblical, you know, just reading this.
• 31:23
  And so, you know, I can't add anything to that because I am still trying to become, you know, high agency. And he said generative. He said high trust. And he said readjusting thinking because of uncertainty and unclearness. I think that the last one there, I mean, high trust is something that I think I'm OK at. Generative.
• 31:40
  Uh, you know, I don't know exactly how you describe that, but readjusting thinking and unclarity like this, this for me is like the linchpin almost to all of it. Cause it's like, you're responsible for everything all the time. Right. What your wife does and brings into the home, what your kids do and bring into the home, how they, like what happens to them. It doesn't mean you're responsible such that if they do something wrong, like you should be thrown in jail and lash and all that kind of stuff. Right.
• 32:03
  You know, could you have stepped in earlier? And so as I'm thinking about this, like, I can't add anything to what you said there because your experience. But for me, I'm going, how do I break this down into its constituent parts, which are one of these three buckets? But even more than that, what are the areas that I could be potentially giving away agency? And I think about this, like one very specific example is just emotionality in a sense, right?
• 32:28
  A lot of guys are uncomfortable with anger or frustration or whatever. And this is just speaking personally why I even got into this space in the first place, because I suck so bad at it. And I was thinking about this listening to one of our other clients who had a podcast on pornography addiction and that kind of thing. And thinking about talking about what happens when your son brings this to you and says, hey, dad, like I found these images and I've been watching and I can't stop.
• 32:54
  And for me, I was going like, well, my instinct is to be like, don't you know how bad this is? Here's the reasons you're going to stop right now. And if you just do what I tell you, we're good. And I thought, no, that's not how addiction works. What if I need to sit with him in that? What if it's going to take years and I see him being hurt by this thing that he can't get out of his life? Do I have the emotional bandwidth? No.
• 33:16
  to sit in there with him rather than shaming him in a way that's going to make it worse. And then my influence over the rest of his life is gone because I can't, I'm not the high agency person that he'd call in that prison of addiction, for example. And so I was just blown away by the fact that it's not just that I can do a million burpees and I know a bunch of guys who are like high net worth who can fly me there in a private jet.
• 33:37
  It's like, hey, dad, this really horrible thing happens. And if you don't get here with me emotionally, I'm never going to take anything to you again. And so that's just one example of like, there's probably 10 or 20 different categories that I am going to need to think about in terms of where could I be giving up agency by not being intentional and aware of how I show up as a father, especially in the places that are really uncomfortable and that my ego doesn't want me to go to.
• 34:03
  So that might be a little bit, you know, in the weeds, but I think that for me is the biggest thing that I need to take away from this.
• 34:09
  I think that's a really good point. But, you know, is your son more likely to call you from a South American prison or after having just, you know, confessed a porn addiction? It's like much, much, much more likely the second. And yeah, are you cultivating the kind of agency, the kind of resources so that you can be a trusted, you know, generative thinker to help your son, your daughter, your sons in law, your wife?
• 34:35
  your friends in those moments, your grandchildren someday. So yeah, I think that's a really good, very practical way to bring it down to reality. By the way, if you guys are looking for symbolic models for this, so the first 30 minutes of The Godfather, when his daughter's getting married and everyone is coming to him with their biggest problem,
• 34:59
  I never quite knew what that was. I would sit there and watch the first 30 minutes of that movie and I'd be like, what? It's just so weird. Like they're just coming to him and his only request is they call him Godfather. And I realized really what he's saying is, and Godfather is sort of,
• 35:14
  the symbolic way of saying Uber father again, like I am, I'm, I'm acting like a light, like, like a, like a meta father for my whole community. And so when they have some absolutely impossible problem, like they have, you know, a, their daughter's boyfriend who is going to be deported,
• 35:33
  They're looking for who's the highest agency person in our entire network that could actually stop this deportation from happening. Is anybody that has political capital that could actually spend it on behalf of my family? I got to find not just a father, but like the top father in my network.
• 35:49
  But I just think that's a really good example of, again, you're building up these things in tiny microcosm in the early stage of your fatherhood. And as it's getting more and more intense, you're becoming that increasing high energy or high agency person. So, yeah, I just love that depiction. And I think that it gives us at least something to, like, if you don't have a phrase for something, it's almost impossible to think about it.
• 36:18
  Like that's just the way the human brain works. And so I've been just racking my brain to try to figure out how do I describe this Abrahamic aspect of fatherhood that can help correct the playful dad from thinking that's the end goal. And I think playful dads are important. Please play with your kids. That is not the best way to describe it. There's something else. And I think high agency is really the thing that I think I was like searching for.
• 36:45
  And so you'll probably hear that come out of my mouth a lot going forward. But I wanted to anchor that concept in this podcast so you guys can hear that. So awesome. It's not quite as good as the anti-Bluey dad. I really like that. I'm throwing my money into that. You want to go for that one? I just love hearing you harass Bluey. So if you can throw that in there, I'd be happy. Okay. Yeah. We'll keep that going. We'll keep giving Bluey a hard time. Awesome. Well, thanks so much, Kurt, for joining me today. Thank you.
• 37:13
  Thank you for listening to the Family Teams podcast. If you're enjoying this content or have learned something new, please make sure to leave a rating and review and share with a friend. To stay up to date with our events, new content, and products, you can follow us on Facebook and Instagram at Family Teams.