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The Mandalorian Chapter 15: The Believer · Aggressive Negotiations: A Star Wars Podcast

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: The force will be with you always.
• 0:02
  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Nerd Party.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Hi, this is Nick and Ostasu, story editor on Star Wars,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: the Clone Wars and Star Wars bad Batch, and you
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: are listening to Aggressive Negotiations.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: You have made contact with Aggressive Negotiations the Star Wars
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: podcast on the Nerd Party network. That is your key
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: to all of the hidden nooks and creannies of a
• 0:31
  Speaker 2: galaxy far far away finding itself at an exciting time
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: in Star Wars franchise history, and in celebration of that,
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: going through the Mandalorians season two, I am one of
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: your hosts, the Humble Jedi Master John Mills, and with
• 0:47
  Speaker 2: me is the keeper of Mandalorian lore and oddly enough,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Imperial Typography manuals.
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: Jedi Master Matthew Rushing. Matt, how are you?
• 0:58
  Speaker 2: And what is the default font that we should be
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: using for our imperial memoranda?
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: Well, yes, that would be Palpatine zero. Very good, Palpatine
• 1:10
  Speaker 4: reset everything in his zero year. Uh you know, And
• 1:14
  Speaker 4: so that font is just called Palpatine, of course, because
• 1:19
  Speaker 4: everything was called Palpatine back then.
• 1:21
  Speaker 3: That's true.
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: Got very confusing for a moment when everything was called Palpatine.
• 1:25
  Speaker 4: It's like going to Atlanta and everything is Peach Street.
• 1:30
  Speaker 3: Yes, so this is exactly like that. Yes, well, the.
• 1:34
  Speaker 2: Trick is you want to go down Palpatine, You want
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: to go down Palpatine Way, and then you hang it
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: right at Palpatine Street. Then you can cross over Palpatine
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: cul de Sac and you're gonna go to wait, don't
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: forget about that. Well, yes, my bad, I forgot Palpatine Place.
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: And then you're a Palpatine Plaza. You got to go
• 1:49
  Speaker 2: through that, and then you'll get to the Palpatine Business
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Complex and then you know which is well yes, oh
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: well yeah, you know, honestly, it makes more sense when
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: you're down there. You know it's talking about it is weird.
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: But what is not weird is when you go down
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: to Apple Podcasts or any other podcast catcher of your
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: choice and you go ahead and you give us a
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: star rating and review. We really appreciate it. It's the
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: best thing. Connect with us on the socials. We are
• 2:16
  Speaker 2: at the Jedi Masters on x Twitter. We are at
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: Join nerd Party as a network on x Twitter, and
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: we are the Nerd Party on Facebook and Instagram. And
• 2:25
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• 2:27
  Speaker 2: any other services, so that's where you're going to find us,
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: and of course the nerd Party dot com slash contact.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: If you want to send angry letters to Matt and
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: only Matt about everything, in fact, doesn't even have to
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: be about Star Wars.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: You're mad about something.
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: Send it to Matt at the nerd Party dot at
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: the nerd party dot com slash contact please by all
• 2:46
  Speaker 2: means whatever you're angry about. So all right, here we
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: are as we go through and we've had a series
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: of bangers in season two of The Mandalorian up to
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: this point, and we come to an episode that, uh
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: is it? It's chapter fifteen. The Believer first aired on
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: December eleventh, twenty twenty oh so many years ago. How
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: wonderful it was to have that show at that time
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: help us get through some times. So The Believer comes along,
• 3:14
  Speaker 2: and here we go with another rally the Troops, sort
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: of bridge episode. There's a lot of episodes where we're
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: gathering people, where we're moving along. We've just had the
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: tragedy and now we're going to take another breath to
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: go along and have this episode The Believer, where again
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: we're going to be examining the depth of the Mandalorians
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: belief systems and how flexible they are. And so we
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: find ourselves reunited with Bill Burr coming back to us.
• 3:48
  Speaker 4: Saw his face now believe it.
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: Had to be done.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: It had to be done. So Nicks Mayfeld comes back,
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: a fan favorite from season one, and we finally find
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: out what has happened to him. So going into this episode,
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: obviously we're all keyed up from the tragedy and we
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: have this episode here, and Matt, I want you to
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: basically just give me your first reactions back then that
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: you can remember, and then on the rewatch here did
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: it hold up for you? Was it the same type
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: of thing or did anything shift for you here?
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I I'm trying to remember how I felt about
• 4:30
  Speaker 4: this episode when it came out. Obviously that's a long
• 4:34
  Speaker 4: time ago at this point, six years, but if I
• 4:37
  Speaker 4: recall correctly, I remember very much liking this episode because
• 4:42
  Speaker 4: I felt like it was a fantastic penultimate episode of
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: the season to kind of set everything where it needed
• 4:50
  Speaker 4: to be. You know. The stinger at the end is
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: just so great with you know, him showing up on
• 5:00
  Speaker 4: in ship, you know, in the hologram and telling them
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: basically you're done messed up by Aron, I'm coming for you,
• 5:07
  Speaker 4: and it's it's just fantastic and so and I think,
• 5:11
  Speaker 4: like you said too, you know, there's there's something about
• 5:14
  Speaker 4: the way in which this also reminds me of you know,
• 5:19
  Speaker 4: those video games or the D and D game or
• 5:22
  Speaker 4: type of thing where you know, the council gets together
• 5:26
  Speaker 4: to set in motion the plan to enact the finale
• 5:30
  Speaker 4: or the final battle type of thing. And so that's
• 5:34
  Speaker 4: very much what's going on here. And I mean, honestly,
• 5:40
  Speaker 4: I'm not quite sure what there isn't to love about
• 5:42
  Speaker 4: this episode, even on the rewatch, because, like you said,
• 5:46
  Speaker 4: the thing that this really digs into is how far
• 5:50
  Speaker 4: will you go to protect who you love? What will
• 5:55
  Speaker 4: you give up? What do you truly believe in? What's important?
• 5:58
  Speaker 4: Is it more important that you keep your helmet on
• 6:00
  Speaker 4: all the time or that you save your kid?
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: Right? Like?
• 6:04
  Speaker 4: Where are your priorities? And I think at this point
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: in the series, to get that moment where the helmet
• 6:13
  Speaker 4: comes off, we see his face and we know why
• 6:18
  Speaker 4: he's doing it because there's no other choice. It's I
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: think it's incredibly moving, But I also do think that
• 6:28
  Speaker 4: it's such a wonderful thematic question to be asking in
• 6:33
  Speaker 4: the Star Wars universe at this point, Right, is it
• 6:38
  Speaker 4: better for people that the new republics here? Did it
• 6:41
  Speaker 4: matter if who's in power? And what do you truly
• 6:45
  Speaker 4: believe in just as a person in your everyday life,
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: Like all of these big questions that kind of get
• 6:53
  Speaker 4: thrown out there, and some of them we kind of
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: get answers to through Mando, and others are just kind
• 6:58
  Speaker 4: of left hanging that we're going to continue to play
• 7:02
  Speaker 4: with with the Mandalorian series in general. I just think
• 7:06
  Speaker 4: is great, right, And so I mean to me then
• 7:11
  Speaker 4: and now, I would say that this continues to be
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: and there are a lot of explosions in this episode.
• 7:17
  Speaker 4: So it's an absolute banger for me even now. So
• 7:20
  Speaker 4: what about you, though, Johnna, do you respond is favorably
• 7:24
  Speaker 4: as you did back then? Was it favorble then and
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: or did this episode even go up in your estimation
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: or down?
• 7:31
  Speaker 3: Well?
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: I mean, this is definitely one where I remember and
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: you got a lot with what you've said that I
• 7:38
  Speaker 2: really want to get into. But like if we're talking
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: first reactions, I saw in it immediately in its DNA
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: A tribute to Wages of Fear, which is an incredible
• 7:48
  Speaker 2: film that friend of the show Nick and Anastasio first
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: introduced us to, and it's now one of my favorite films,
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: like absolutely, you know, like if you I haven't seen
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: Wages of Fear, you got to go see Wages of
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: Fear everybody. And then there was a nineteen seventies Roy
• 8:04
  Speaker 2: Scheider movie came out in seventy seven, as a matter
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: of fact, same year as Star Wars, that was based
• 8:10
  Speaker 2: on Wages of Fear called Sorcerer.
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: I don't think it's as good.
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: As the original, but a lot of people love it
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: as much as you know mile which may vary, no
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: pun intended. So I saw in the DNA right there,
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: a tribute to great film and great cinema, you know,
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: to be scorsesey about it for a minute, which is
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: the very DNA of Star Wars itself. When I see
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: those types of callbacks, it warms my heart because it's
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: a moment to teach film history through modern film, and
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I think that's that's a beautiful thing, and that's what
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: should always be done. Now, my first reactions even keyed
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: off of that. I want to go with what you're
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: talking about and what The episode is obviously about how
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: far will you go? Where will you compromise your beliefs?
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: And for what will you compromise them? And there's something
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: that the Jesuits call descending into the particulars, wherein the
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: idea is you have your belief system, and then you
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: when you come to the specific instance, wherein it's brought
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: in direct conflict with something, in this case, the greater
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: good of Grogu's well being, how far do you go?
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: What is more important in that moment? You know, for instance,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: thou shalt not lie. Lying is a sin, But if
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: I tell a lie, I will save somebody's life. Therefore,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: that's descending into the particulars. I will lie in that
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: situation because the greater good demands that I hedge a
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: little bit on that. If I'm an absolutist, then I'm
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: a sith And what good is that? And I think,
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: what's really interesting about it? And this will, I think,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: come to play through a book of Boba Fett And
• 9:54
  Speaker 2: then Mando season three is that Mandalorian winds up realizing
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: he's among people that won't compromise or bend for the
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: greater good. That helmet is more important than the survival
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: of somebody else that is the more important thing. And
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: so you would look at that and I would think
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: it sets up a future arc for the Mandalorian to
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: look back and say, well, what am I doing here? Right?
• 10:25
  Speaker 3: Like?
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: The outfit signifies who I am? But it's not who
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: I am. It's a really fascinating thing. What I want
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: to throw to you is, obviously Mayfeld's coming at it
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: from a very negative perspective, very cynical. He's trying to
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: get under Mando's skin about it. What I want to
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: ask is does that still work? He's not coming at
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: it from a positive argument perspective. He's coming at it
• 10:50
  Speaker 2: from needling Mandalorian trying to get him in a sense
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: to admit his faith is wrong because he's willing to
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: compromise in those moments. And so, you know, does that
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: work for you? Do they go too far with Mayfeld
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: in this episode?
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: You know?
• 11:05
  Speaker 4: I think what makes it really fascinating is that the
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: way that the episode ends, where one of the major
• 11:15
  Speaker 4: action sequences takes place, because they sit down, they're having
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: a drink with this previous commanding officer of MiGs, Mayfeld,
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: and they're talking about this campaign that they are on
• 11:29
  Speaker 4: during operations Center. Great drop there from you know, the
• 11:32
  Speaker 4: the Star Wars extended universe that have been created for
• 11:36
  Speaker 4: you know, the sequel era and just in general now
• 11:39
  Speaker 4: with Disney owning Star Wars, so nice continuent new there
• 11:42
  Speaker 4: appreciate that.
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: And so.
• 11:48
  Speaker 4: They're talking about this idea of of you know, is
• 11:54
  Speaker 4: it okay basically to allow hundreds of thousands of troops
• 12:03
  Speaker 4: and people to die quote unquote for the greater good?
• 12:07
  Speaker 4: Or is there a point where it's too much?
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 12:11
  Speaker 4: And of course this this this officer, uh, this imperial
• 12:15
  Speaker 4: officer is saying, yeah, it was for.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: The greater good.
• 12:18
  Speaker 4: You know, it doesn't really matter, you know, the glory
• 12:20
  Speaker 4: of the empire.
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: That's that's really what matters.
• 12:22
  Speaker 4: And and Miggs Mayfield to shoots him in the face.
• 12:26
  Speaker 4: And I think that in that moment there is our
• 12:30
  Speaker 4: key to understanding that he has something he believes in,
• 12:35
  Speaker 4: which is that people should not be sacrificed on the
• 12:40
  Speaker 4: altar of the glory of something nebulous like the empire
• 12:45
  Speaker 4: in the way that this this person is talking about it.
• 12:48
  Speaker 4: And I think that's really interesting because I think there
• 12:52
  Speaker 4: becomes a real understanding between Din and Miggs, and Miggs
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: makes the move that he does because he seen what
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: it is that's truly important to Din and he is
• 13:06
  Speaker 4: finally going to reveal what truly matters to him. It's
• 13:10
  Speaker 4: getting rid of people that treat others like the like
• 13:14
  Speaker 4: you know, commodities.
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: Well, I don't know, do you agree with that?
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: Well? I like, I like what you're saying there, and
• 13:21
  Speaker 2: I'm glad you're talking about the scene in specific, because
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: Richard Brake is the name of the actor who plays
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: the Imperial Commander, and I think that he.
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: Deserved some sort of award.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: For this because his specific performance elevates this episode. He
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: absolutely was spellbinding and he's still spellbinding on the rewatch.
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: He sells me as somebody who is just so incredibly
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: evil and so committed to the cause.
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: He like that.
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: That's what we're talking about, is like Mayfeld has he
• 13:57
  Speaker 2: professes no belief system, right, Mando has a belief system,
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: and then we see this evil Imperial Commander's belief system.
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: So at the end of it, I would argue that
• 14:09
  Speaker 2: Mayfeld becomes a believer. He discovers in that moment that
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: he has beliefs and he had just sort of tamped
• 14:18
  Speaker 2: all of that down because it was too painful to
• 14:20
  Speaker 2: remember them. And I think that Burr plays it completely perfectly.
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: Rick Fumi, I always mess up his last name, Fumi Yahwa.
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I think it's how you pronounced his last name. Directed
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: this episode We Love You, Rick, and he got such
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: a performance out of Burr, such a wonderful performance out
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: of Burr.
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: Up to an including the necessary.
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: Beat in a in a movie or a series or
• 14:48
  Speaker 2: an episode like this where the person who does the
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: thing is given that moment to look at the other
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: character and be like I had to, Like we all know.
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: It's like it's like the Django Unchanged moment where Christoph
• 15:02
  Speaker 2: Waltz shoots yes Leonardo DiCaprio and he turns around, he
• 15:06
  Speaker 2: looks at Jengo and he's like, I had no choice,
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: you know, like, what did you expect me to do?
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: There's only so far I can go.
• 15:14
  Speaker 3: But I think that.
• 15:18
  Speaker 2: It's also great because I think, especially with some of
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: the modern fandom, this episode examines a very uncomfortable fact
• 15:28
  Speaker 2: that let's say you have the Empire and Mayfeld was
• 15:34
  Speaker 2: basically you know, he wasn't a stormtrooper, but he was.
• 15:37
  Speaker 3: In the armor.
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: And it's easy to look at and say, oh, they're
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: all fanatics, but you realize Mayfeld was He was a
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: soldier doing a job. And it's such a humanizing thing
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: to look at Mayfeld's character and feel that empathy for
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: him and be like, man, he suddenly realizes everything was
• 16:00
  Speaker 2: a lie, and like, you know, this, this guy played
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: by Richard Brake is just that that ultimate avatar of it.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: It's fast, it's truly fascinating. Well, I think when you
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: break it down.
• 16:14
  Speaker 4: I think the beauty of it too is that you
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: realize that may Failed's character is the type of person
• 16:22
  Speaker 4: that this guy is talking about.
• 16:24
  Speaker 3: Yep.
• 16:24
  Speaker 4: And so it makes sense as to why there is
• 16:29
  Speaker 4: this feeling in Mayfeld that like, no, this is not correct,
• 16:34
  Speaker 4: this is not right. There is there is a point,
• 16:38
  Speaker 4: you know, to quote Captain Ricard, the line must be
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: drawn here this far and no farther. Right, that's the
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: line for Mayfeld, and he proves it. And I think
• 16:48
  Speaker 4: that that's what just makes that so interesting and and
• 16:52
  Speaker 4: right it's also being played out you see in like
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: characters like car A Doon and Boba Fat and Finnick
• 17:02
  Speaker 4: shand right, they're all on this mission because there is
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: something for them. That's more important than anything else that's
• 17:09
  Speaker 4: going on their life, right. You know, Kara Dune pulling
• 17:12
  Speaker 4: out Miggs Mayfield from this security center is putting her
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: career as a marshal on the line, because rescuing this
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: kid is is is important or more important to her
• 17:27
  Speaker 4: than what she is doing, which we've seen is good
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: because we've already seen the ramifications of what she and
• 17:32
  Speaker 4: Grief Karga have been able to do over on the Varro.
• 17:36
  Speaker 4: They've cleaned that place up. You know, she's doing great work.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: If she gets taken out as marshall, she wouldn't be
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: able to do that, but to put that in danger
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: is worth it for her because of the danger you know,
• 17:53
  Speaker 4: to this child and knowing how special this child is. Right,
• 17:57
  Speaker 4: and you learn a lot about of course Boba Fett
• 18:01
  Speaker 4: here and Fenix Shand as well, where they yes they
• 18:05
  Speaker 4: may be bounty hunters, but their word truly is their bond, right,
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: And so I think what's really interesting here is that
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: we are kind of spending an entire episode figuring out
• 18:21
  Speaker 4: these characters in really subtle and interesting ways, and we're
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: not really having to talk a lot about it, right,
• 18:28
  Speaker 4: Like you don't We're not getting conversations between Finick, Shand
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: and Cardoon, who are spending a whole episode together about
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: this subject, right, They're just they're showing us through their
• 18:41
  Speaker 4: actions who they are and what they believe. Bofet's doing
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: the same thing. Uh. And So I think that's one
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: of the things that actually makes this episode so strong
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: is that it's so much show don't tell, even when
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: important conversations are being had, Say bye Miggs and Din
• 19:01
  Speaker 4: right where he's throwing barbs at him. But what's backed
• 19:08
  Speaker 4: up is not them having to have another conversation about it,
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: but the actions that they take next, Din being willing
• 19:15
  Speaker 4: to remove his helmet and Megs being willing to shoot
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: an imperial dude in the face knowing he could die
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: for it.
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: I think there's Again it's just one of those places
• 19:26
  Speaker 4: where I'm not sure that the Mandalorian really in a
• 19:30
  Speaker 4: lot of ways got the credit it deserved, with the
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: way in which in thirty eight minutes we're telling this
• 19:39
  Speaker 4: type of story with this type of depth for these characters,
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: and there's there's no question about what it is that
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: the motivation behind them, because it's all there on screen,
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: Man and it doesn't have to just come through dialogue.
• 19:56
  Speaker 4: It's every single part of the episode is reinforcing the
• 20:00
  Speaker 4: thematic elements of these characters.
• 20:02
  Speaker 2: And this episode well, I think also there's a you know,
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: you mentioned the duration of the episode. An episode like
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: this is very easy to wind up running too long.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: You can get very indulgent with with that stuff, and
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: they don't. And that's another credit to the director here
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: and and everybody that put it together. One last question
• 20:27
  Speaker 2: before we go, though, I mean, obviously we have some
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: very expansive digital sets here and some very ambitious use
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: of the technology. Coming back to it, you know, the
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: magician's trick this time. You know, you know what to
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: look for, what sleight of hand is going on? Where
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: do the effects fall down? If at all, do the
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: effects fall down? Does the volume disappoint at any point
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: for you?
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: You know, it's interesting. I had to watch this one
• 20:58
  Speaker 4: on my computer because of time today, but I was
• 21:02
  Speaker 4: actually pretty impressed by the way it felt like it
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: was holding up. I felt like, you know, that whole
• 21:09
  Speaker 4: sequence on the truck was just great.
• 21:14
  Speaker 3: I'm glad you call it out.
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: It's incredible, Like what they did with that that was
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: that was obscene how good that was, and it really was.
• 21:22
  Speaker 4: And the fact that everything about that Juggernaut sequence looks
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: the way it does, from just the choreography of the
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: fight scene, just the way the visual effects are all
• 21:33
  Speaker 4: working together. It's just really impressive. And I think it's
• 21:36
  Speaker 4: one of those things too, where this is the seventh
• 21:40
  Speaker 4: episode of the second season, and I think in a
• 21:44
  Speaker 4: lot of ways, this is one of those episodes you
• 21:46
  Speaker 4: can tell they had just learned a lot of things
• 21:50
  Speaker 4: and they're really starting to implement It's kind of like,
• 21:53
  Speaker 4: I think The Mandalorian in a lot of ways is
• 21:56
  Speaker 4: akin to the Clone Wars in that sense. You know,
• 21:59
  Speaker 4: when they started Lucasfilm animation, they're making it up as
• 22:02
  Speaker 4: they go along in the sense that everything they're trying
• 22:05
  Speaker 4: to do is something that was pretty unique for animation
• 22:10
  Speaker 4: at the time, and so they are continuing to kind
• 22:14
  Speaker 4: of refine their process and until you know, I mean, gosh,
• 22:17
  Speaker 4: you think of the fact that mal shadow Lord is
• 22:22
  Speaker 4: about to come out and you look at the trailer
• 22:25
  Speaker 4: for that, and that is an extension of the Clone
• 22:30
  Speaker 4: Wars animation ramped up to about four trillion, right, And
• 22:35
  Speaker 4: so I think that The Mandalorian as a show is
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: something that's kind of growing in that way, which is
• 22:44
  Speaker 4: really cool. I think that's that's that's wonderful to see.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: I think it's also the type of thing that you know,
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: as we look at the shows, as we continue to
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: move forward in them with the Mandalorian and then you know,
• 22:57
  Speaker 4: you got a Soca, and you think of Skeleton Crew
• 23:00
  Speaker 4: and and or and all this stuff, like they're just
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: continually further refining what Star Wars looks like on television,
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: and it just seems to be getting better and better
• 23:10
  Speaker 4: as they learned. So this is an episode I think
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: that pretty much nails it. So I mean, did you
• 23:17
  Speaker 4: think the same thing. Did you feel like there were
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: any seams showing in this one?
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah? But I thought this at the time too, that
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: some of the stuff where they're talking planning out the
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: mission and stuff like that, you can see the screen work.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: It's unavoidable. It's just so difficult to get that flatness
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: and the lighting keys like to resolve. And but that's okay,
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: it's not so it's not something where I'm like, oh.
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: This looks like garbage.
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: It's like, eh, we're almost there, but not there, which
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: is you know, just a testament to how good the
• 23:54
  Speaker 2: other stuff is, Like I consider it like some of
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: the stuff where the Seams show is just the the
• 24:00
  Speaker 2: natural push and pull where there's always an effect that
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: you know, it's sort of like, ah, you know, that
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: could have used more refinement. They obviously spent more time
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: over here, but at the same time, there is nothing
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: in this episode that is as annoying as some of
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: the farmed out effects that you see in some of
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: the Star Wars movies now or some of the the
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Marvel movies, especially where you're like, oh, they they shipped
• 24:27
  Speaker 2: that one off to be worked one because you know,
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: the C team got that one, and by sea team,
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: I mean the overseas team. That's just like in a mill,
• 24:37
  Speaker 2: you know, grinding this stuff out.
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: As opposed to anyway.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Everybody knows what I'm trying to say with that, so
• 24:44
  Speaker 2: I you know, I think that I mean, this is
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: this is another high marks episode for me, like as
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: another banger. Last question on the way out the door,
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: how excited were you and how excited are you to
• 24:58
  Speaker 2: move on to the next episode?
• 25:02
  Speaker 3: Man uh I.
• 25:08
  Speaker 4: It's funny because I'm like thinking back and and we
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: didn't even know what was coming, right we we had
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: no clue, bro Like, just no clue, not a him
• 25:22
  Speaker 4: and so uh to know that we're going to be
• 25:25
  Speaker 4: revisiting this, I cannot freaking wait. Uh it's it's just
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: so great. So yes, I'm I'm as pumped as could
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: possibly be. John, If is there is there any kind
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: of rating that you would give this if from like
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: one to five? What do you what do you think
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: for this one?
• 25:47
  Speaker 3: I know I've been a pushover, but it's a five.
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: I mean the thing that put that puts it over
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: the top for me is the fact that I see
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: that wages a fear sorcerer callback where I'm like, like,
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: I just that type of stuff just tickles me to death.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: Great and also seeing also seeing uh so much Stormtrooper
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: armor that I love and the driver armor with the
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: helmet that they're in like.
• 26:10
  Speaker 4: The Shore Troopers, Zoe back too.
• 26:13
  Speaker 2: You get you get that type, you get that type
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: of armor variety.
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: For me, I got a thing for the armor.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: Man.
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: I can't help it, I really can't.
• 26:20
  Speaker 4: Do.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: You like a man in armor, I like anyone in armor.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: I like Kara Dune's armor, I like Fenix Shan's armor.
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: I got an armor thing.
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: Whatever, what do what do you want me to do?
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Come on now, come on now.
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: But you know, even better than my armor fetish is
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: your fetish for striking up conversations online.
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: So where can people find you? Met?
• 26:41
  Speaker 4: Well, goodness, I'm all over social media under the name
• 26:43
  Speaker 4: Matt Rushing zero two. You can find me there. If
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: I'm on that network that's the place, Hollpye, the name
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: might be under you. You can also find me here on
• 26:53
  Speaker 4: the network doing owl posts with Drake Kaufman as we
• 26:55
  Speaker 4: talked about every single chapter the Harry Potter series. That's
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: a completed show, so enjoy that. You can also find
• 27:00
  Speaker 4: me over on the TFM network with a bunch of shows.
• 27:04
  Speaker 4: Six oh two Club is the main show. Got all
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: the conversations about all the franchises we love outside of
• 27:10
  Speaker 4: Star Trek, and then I have lots of great Star
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: Trek talk with my good friend Chris Jones over there
• 27:15
  Speaker 4: as well. So check all of that out. But John,
• 27:18
  Speaker 4: when you're not trying to figure out how in the
• 27:20
  Speaker 4: world you're going to score tickets to figure in Dan,
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: where could people find you?
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, I've got my modal nodes cosplay all
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: set for the next figure and Dan concert, and you
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: can find me as Cassel Junkie out there in the
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: wilds of the Internet. I prefer letterboxed and Goodreads.
• 27:38
  Speaker 3: Come on over.
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: I love watching bad movies and reading controversial books.
• 27:41
  Speaker 3: It's the best thing in the world.
• 27:43
  Speaker 2: And of course you can find me here on the
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: Network where I am co hosting a show called house
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: Lights with Darren Moser and Tristan Riddell, where I educate
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: the two of them on what their movie opinions should be.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: It's an arduous task, but helping them one episode at
• 28:01
  Speaker 2: a time.
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: I invite you over there too.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: You know, I consider it what I was placed on
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: this earth for, honestly, is to help them understand film better.
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: So you know, with all of that said, though, I
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: gotta tell you we got the absolutely fantastic ride back
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: at the Jedi Temple based on the ride that Deng
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Jaron and Miggs Mayfeld took on this so far, fifty
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: percent of the people have survived it. So I'm going
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: to go back and give it a try back at
• 28:31
  Speaker 2: the Temple, and Master Rushing, I think it's time to
• 28:33
  Speaker 2: close these negotiations.
• 28:36
  Speaker 4: Master Mills, negotiations are close.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: Join the Revolution, Join the nerd Party,