Latest / Abbey the Podcast Lady / The Art of Conversation: What Armchair Expert Gets Right -- Podcast Case Study

Transcript

The Art of Conversation: What Armchair Expert Gets Right -- Podcast Case Study · Abbey the Podcast Lady

• 0:04
  Well, hello there and welcome to the podcast
• 0:07
  lady. It's a show for aspiring podcasters, business
• 0:10
  owners and visionaries who are ready to get their
• 0:12
  voice out into the world and sound amazing doing
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  it. I'm Abbey Graves and after 10 years in the
• 0:17
  radio industry and nearly three years running
• 0:19
  a global podcast production company, I've worked
• 0:22
  with everyone from cattle ranchers in Australia
• 0:24
  to love therapists in Tennessee and today I'm
• 0:27
  turning the mic around to help you become the
• 0:29
  host that you were born to be. This episode is
• 0:32
  part of my monthly case study series where I
• 0:34
  bring down a podcast I've been hooked on, and
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  we talk about what they're doing right, what
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  could be improved, and what you can do to match
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  their energy, take some things away from what
• 0:43
  they're doing right, and apply it to your own
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  show. Today we're diving into none other than
• 0:48
  my favorite podcast ever. It is Armchair Expert
• 0:51
  with Dax Shepard. So why Armchair Expert? Well,
• 0:55
  first and foremost, it is my favorite podcast
• 0:57
  in the entire world. I love armchair. armchair
• 1:01
  expert. It's an interview based podcast. It's
• 1:03
  hosted by actor Dax Shepard where he explores
• 1:06
  the messiness of being human with everyone from
• 1:08
  A -list celebrities to academics and experts.
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  It's part humor, kind of therapy and part intellectual
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  curiosity and all just blends together and it
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  keeps millions and millions of people coming
• 1:20
  back week after week after week. I just think
• 1:23
  they have such a wonderful variety of guests
• 1:25
  and I just am always intrigued by whoever they
• 1:28
  have on whether it's someone who I've been wanting
• 1:30
  to hear from for forever like Prince Harry or
• 1:33
  a scientific expert I've never heard of. Everyone's
• 1:36
  got such a great story to tell and Dax and Monica
• 1:38
  are so great about pulling it out of them. Coming
• 1:40
  from a place of full transparency here, this
• 1:43
  was the first podcast I ever listened to. I can't
• 1:48
  quite remember which episode it was, but it was
• 1:50
  my intro to the world of podcasts. I knew of
• 1:53
  Dax from the movie Employee of the Month, which
• 1:55
  to this day is still one of my favorite movies
• 1:58
  that probably says a lot about my personality.
• 2:00
  But I have always just kind of had like this
• 2:02
  little like childhood crush on Dax Shepard. And
• 2:06
  so when I saw he was doing a podcast, I didn't
• 2:08
  really know what podcasts were. I'm like, oh,
• 2:09
  I'll give it a try. Anything for Dax. And I just
• 2:13
  immediately fell in love not only with the show,
• 2:15
  but with the medium of podcasting. I'm like,
• 2:18
  he's getting this opportunity just to sit down
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  and have these wonderful conversations with people
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  that we typically aren't getting conversations
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  from. This was kind of at the peak of late night
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  talk shows where you'd get 15 minutes with a
• 2:32
  celebrity you've been wanting to hear from. So
• 2:33
  this was cool to have like an hour long conversation
• 2:36
  with someone who I was really intrigued by and
• 2:38
  like, wow, this is cool. And just from there,
• 2:41
  it just snowballed into who else is doing cool
• 2:44
  things in podcast land. I think what really drew
• 2:46
  me in initially in those first few episodes I
• 2:49
  listened to was just the balance of vulnerability
• 2:52
  and humor. It's not just the celebrity fluff,
• 2:55
  the funny stories we're getting on the late night
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  couch. It's Dax and his co -host Monica sitting
• 3:01
  there and they're just all comparing these really
• 3:04
  real and raw human experiences that we all have.
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  Now they do talk about pooping themselves quite
• 3:10
  a bit, like more than you would expect adults
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  to, but it's like real life stuff that we're
• 3:16
  all going through and it's so relatable and it's
• 3:18
  so real and it's just a peek behind the curtain
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  that... Everyone is human and we're all kind
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  of going through the same things. It really is
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  like the highest of highs and the lowest of lows
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  and somehow Dax and Monica have this insane ability
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  to bridge the gap like it's just totally seamless.
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  So I want to start this off by getting into what
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  Armchair Expert is doing right when it comes
• 3:41
  to their podcast. First and foremost, it's long
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  form conversation that does not feel long. I
• 3:47
  think the episode I most recently listened to
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  was well over two hours long I didn't bat an
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  eye I just hit play and I listened to it in chunks
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  when I had the time to and it was a long conversation
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  but every moment of it felt important like it
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  felt like it didn't need to be edited in any
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  sort of way to condense it down to make it more
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  appropriate I use quotes around the word appropriate
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  because I mean if it's a good conversation don't
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  cut it let it run have that conversation, share
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  those stories. What I really like is that in
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  those long conversations, they're not afraid
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  to go deep. They're digging deep with their guests.
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  It's not just, hi, how are you? How's that new
• 4:27
  movie that you're promoting? They're digging
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  into the nitty gritty of what did your childhood
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  look like? What are your past traumas? What are
• 4:34
  your addictions? What are you fighting every
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  single day? And it's so real and so raw. And
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  I just, I've listened to a lot of interviews
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  with a lot of different people and there's just
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  a gift that Dax and Monica have for having those
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  real conversations, asking those questions that
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  aren't surface level, they can go deep and really
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  get into what it is to be human. Sticking along
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  the lines of what they're doing right when it
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  comes to their formatting, now this two -hour
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  episode wasn't just all interview, the bulk of
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  it was the interview, but at the end of every
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  episode Dax and Monica do what they call a fact
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  check, which starts out with them kind of chit
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  -chatting about what's going on in their lives,
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  anything that like happened to them recently,
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  sharing a few funny stories here and there, but
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  but then they get into like some of the facts
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  from the episode that they may have gotten wrong,
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  maybe some numbers that had gotten skewed. So
• 5:23
  it kind of gives that like callback to the initial
• 5:26
  episode. So you're still staying in the world
• 5:29
  of the guest that they had, but at the same time,
• 5:31
  you're getting those flavors of what their life
• 5:34
  is like day to day. You're getting this peek
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  behind the curtain of what it looks like to live
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  in Dax Shepard's household, married to Kristen
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  Bell and Monica's life as a single. 35 year old
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  woman living in Los Angeles like you're getting
• 5:45
  this kind of peek behind the curtain But also
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  you're keeping it tied to the guest at the same
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  time another thing I really want to talk about
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  when it comes to armchair expert is the fact
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  that the chemistry between Dax and Monica is
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  So fantastic, especially if you are looking to
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  do a podcast with a co -host These two are the
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  two to listen to just to get the feel of what
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  good chemistry Looks like I remember when I first
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  listened to armchair experts that first initial
• 6:14
  episode I was going into a blind didn't know
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  what podcasting was didn't know what this all
• 6:17
  entailed and I'm like, wait a minute I thought
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  Dax Shepard was married to Kristen Bell Something's
• 6:23
  not right here. Who is this Monica girl? And
• 6:27
  why is there so much? It wasn't sexual energy.
• 6:31
  It was just good energy. It's like you can tell
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  that they really trusted each other that they
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  were picking on each other in a way that came
• 6:37
  from the heart, not from a place of hurt. And
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  I'm like, what is going on? I thought Dax was
• 6:42
  married to Kristen, did some light Googling.
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  Turns out Monica was the family. She doesn't
• 6:46
  like the word babysitter, but she helped care
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  for the kids. Like when Kristen and Dax were
• 6:51
  both acting and then she became a writer for
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  Kristen and she still does some writing for Kristen.
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  And now she's just part of their whole podcast
• 6:58
  network, but. She was part of the family and
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  I think that's what really made their chemistry
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  So electric and so it was tangible almost it
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  was just so incredible and they still carry that
• 7:08
  chemistry to this day They can argue but you
• 7:11
  can tell they're arguing from a place of love
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  and a place of trying to understand where the
• 7:15
  other person's coming from another thing I think
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  armchair expert does extremely well is their
• 7:21
  level of polish in production It is so flawlessly
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  produced without feeling sterile. and like by
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  sterile I mean like here's the facts here's it's
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  clean it's clean it's clean we don't have any
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  extra things that are unnecessary they leave
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  the little laughs in they leave things in like
• 7:39
  Dax blowing his nose like they leave those real
• 7:42
  life moments in so you feel like you are in the
• 7:46
  room with the guest you're sitting in the attic
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  with them having this conversation listening
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  in it's very immersive but at the same time you
• 7:56
  cannot tell where they're cutting You can't tell
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  where they're cutting the ums and the uhs and
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  the stutters. And sometimes they leave a couple
• 8:05
  of those in, again, just to give you that immersive
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  feeling. When you cut too much out of your show,
• 8:10
  it loses its magical spark. So just something
• 8:14
  to really be careful of, especially when you're
• 8:16
  starting to think about how you're gonna go about
• 8:18
  producing your end result. Okay, now we're gonna
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  get into something I really struggled with, which
• 8:23
  is what could be improved about armchair experts?
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  And as a super - fangirl of the show, my answer
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  is nothing. It's perfect. It should be how it
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  is from here on out. But as I mentioned, nothing
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  is perfect. Everything can always be improved
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  in some way, shape, or form. Even a show of this
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  caliber, of this reach, there's a couple areas
• 8:44
  that I think that they could really improve in.
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  That first one would be the episode length and
• 8:50
  segmentation. The long form style. works great,
• 8:54
  but not everyone has the bandwidth for a 90 minute
• 8:56
  listen. Attention spans are so incredibly short.
• 9:00
  Like it is impossible to hold people's attention
• 9:02
  partially because of TikTok, which I will not
• 9:05
  slander TikTok on this podcast. I am a TikTok
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  junkie, but I even noticed my own attention span
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  is not what it used to be. And so I think that
• 9:13
  some people might struggle with a really long
• 9:16
  form conversation. Something they could do is
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  offer a shorter edited highlighted version that
• 9:22
  would make it more accessible, especially for
• 9:24
  new listeners who don't necessarily know what
• 9:26
  they're getting into, but they see a guest on
• 9:28
  that they wanna hear from, but they don't have
• 9:30
  the time or energy to really commit to a big
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  long interview like that. So maybe like a chunked
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  up highlighted episode, or maybe like a... weekly
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  or monthly, hey, here's the best of this episode
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  if you missed it. So that'd be something that
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  they could potentially do. Again, not telling
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  you guys to do anything. If you're listening,
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  armchair experts, Monica Dax, I love you. Please
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  keep doing what you do. Secondly, I think that
• 9:51
  they really could up their social media game.
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  If you go and follow any of the armchair crew,
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  they don't post a lot. They really don't. It's
• 10:00
  pretty few and far between what they're posting.
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  It's usually like, here's a picture of our guest.
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  Here's who's on this week. They have gotten a
• 10:06
  lot better. As of recent, they did switch to
• 10:09
  a video podcast on Thursdays for their Experts
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  on Experts series. And they have been doing more
• 10:17
  video along with that. But up until that point,
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  there wasn't any like TikToks. There wasn't Instagram
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  reels. They didn't really do a whole lot of that.
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  So I think just more of that just to... get it
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  more in front of people going hey new episode
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  hey remember to listen to this one hey hey hey
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  so i think that could be improved if i had to
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  give them any advice i mean i'm an avid armcherry
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  i like i said i think what they're doing is perfect
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  just some things that could be tossed around
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  and thought about now here is the section that
• 10:44
  i like to call the thievery section of the show
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  what you can steal from them and apply to your
• 10:50
  own show the beautiful thing about armchair expert
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  is that they lean in to vulnerability, they are
• 10:56
  not scared to be their true 100 % authentic selves.
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  And there is so much to be said for that. Be
• 11:04
  you, you are your brand, learn it, live it, execute
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  it every single day. Every time you get in front
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  of that microphone, be you, because that's what
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  people are coming for. They're coming for you,
• 11:17
  your show, your vulnerability, your stories,
• 11:19
  your experiences. Don't be afraid to be you.
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  If you want a great example of that, there's
• 11:24
  an episode of Armchair Expert where Dax Shepard
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  talks about how he fell out of sobriety and was
• 11:32
  kind of... talking us through the process of
• 11:34
  what that looked like and how addressing the
• 11:36
  problem with his family went. It's very real,
• 11:38
  very raw, very vulnerable, and I think everyone
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  should listen to it. Another thing that you can
• 11:44
  steal from armchair experts is to really lean
• 11:48
  on your co -host for balance. Dax and Monica,
• 11:51
  like I said, they have a very electric energy
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  between the two of them. They're not afraid to
• 11:56
  argue. They're not afraid to share their opinions.
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  They don't just agree with each other on everything.
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  You really want to make sure that when you're
• 12:02
  you're picking your co -host or picking your
• 12:04
  guest. It's someone who can carry an intelligent
• 12:07
  conversation and a witty banter. Now, not everything
• 12:10
  is gonna be perfect. You're not gonna get that
• 12:12
  right on the first try. You're not gonna get
• 12:14
  that right every try with every guest you have
• 12:15
  on, but make sure that whoever you are conversing
• 12:19
  with on a regular basis knows how to carry a
• 12:21
  conversation and isn't afraid to push back just
• 12:24
  a little bit. I mean, you don't wanna have an
• 12:26
  all out brawl, but just like some good creative
• 12:28
  conversation can go a long way. And I think another
• 12:31
  thing we can... I'll steal from armchair experts
• 12:32
  is to prioritize audio quality early on. Even
• 12:36
  if you don't have a full studio set up like Dax,
• 12:39
  even if you don't have a full studio set up like
• 12:41
  Abby Graves productions. There are little things
• 12:44
  you can do to make sure that you have good quality
• 12:47
  audio right from the jump. One of those things
• 12:49
  is buying a good quality microphone. And I have
• 12:52
  recommendations for that down in the show notes
• 12:54
  below of my top recommended gear for getting
• 12:57
  started with podcasting. A good microphone and
• 13:00
  a quiet room will go a long way. So moving on
• 13:02
  to the final takeaway I have for you today. Armchair
• 13:05
  Expert I think is the gold standard when it comes
• 13:08
  to podcasting. It works because it builds trust
• 13:11
  with the audience. It's consistent. It's curious,
• 13:14
  it's comfortable, and even when it's untackling
• 13:17
  like those really hard topics like addiction
• 13:19
  and trauma and all those really hard messy things
• 13:23
  we go through as humans. they make it relatable
• 13:26
  and they make it approachable and they make it
• 13:28
  something that you want to listen to and learn
• 13:31
  about and grow from, even when it's the worst
• 13:35
  of the worst. And you might be thinking to yourself,
• 13:37
  well, how am I supposed to get real and raw and
• 13:40
  vulnerable? And how am I supposed to build an
• 13:41
  audience if I don't have access to A -list actors
• 13:44
  in Hollywood? I'm willing to bet you know some
• 13:46
  people who are willing to share their story and
• 13:48
  use your platform to do so. So be sure you reach
• 13:50
  out to them, invite them in, make them feel comfortable.
• 13:54
  and help them share their story. That's exactly
• 13:56
  what Dax and Monica are doing and you can totally
• 13:59
  do it too. I wanna thank you so much for listening
• 14:00
  to this episode of The Podcast Lady. If this
• 14:03
  episode gave you ideas or inspiration, I would
• 14:06
  love for you to do me a quick favor, hit follow,
• 14:09
  leave a review and share it with a friend who's
• 14:11
  thinking about starting a show. And if you're
• 14:13
  ready to launch or relaunch your podcast the
• 14:15
  right way, be sure to head to abbygravesproductions
• 14:17
  .com. and get more information on working with
• 14:20
  me if you're looking for help beyond what this
• 14:23
  podcast can provide. I will see you on the next
• 14:25
  episode where we are going to get into a tip
• 14:27
  or tool to help make your podcast move forward
• 14:30
  and start getting you some results. Have a great
• 14:33
  rest of your day.