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5 Reasons to Invest In Your Health as a Clinician · Pelvic PT Rising

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: In the last 10 years, our field has gone from an unknown specialty to a household name.
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: This brings unprecedented opportunities, but we need to rise up to meet them and give our patients the care that they deserve.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: In order to help others get better, we need to be better.
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: This podcast will help you to become more confident with your patients, more successful in your practice or business and a leader in pelvic health, and we're going to have some fun along the way.
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: Join us as we rise together.
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: We're Jesse and Nicole Cozine, founders of Pelvic Sanity Physical Therapy and the creators of the Pelvic PT Huddle, and this is Pelvic PT Rising.
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of the Pelvic PT Rising podcast with Jesse and Nicole Cozine.
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: Hey, nicole, hello.
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Today we have a great topic for you guys Talk about five reasons to consume health care services ourselves, what that's going to teach you.
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: And we're going to talk a lot about that.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: But, nicole, I know we've got some new listeners, people who have tuned in, some of our people who have listened to the Pelvic Unspeaker series and just kind of wanted to do a quick what?
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: Three minute reintroduction for those of you guys who don't know a whole lot about us or what we've been doing.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: For those of you guys who are super long-term listeners, this is going to be the Cliff Nodes version.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: But, nicole, what are we about?
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: Who are we?
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: So?
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: My name's Dr Nicole Cozine.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: I am a pelvic floor physical therapist and have been practicing in the field for about 17 years.
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: I did not think I wanted to do pelvic floor but I was essentially bribed by my hospital program to do it and got a ton of training really fast and was able to have a lot of great mentorship.
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: Really early on in my career I worked for a hospital-based system for about five years, then worked for another out of network cash-based practice or another five years where I was a clinical director.
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: And then somewhere in there, jesse and I met and we wrote the IC solution together and kind of at the same time, when the book was finally about to be published and it was time for me to leave my other place, pelvic sanity was born.
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: So that was in 2016.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: We grew pretty quickly to, and still are, one of the larger cash-based practices in the United States for pelvic health and we're really proud of that fact Somewhere in there as well.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: After about three years and after COVID happened, where we had to shut down the clinic for a while in some of our earlier podcasts some of our earlier podcasts were when COVID was hitting and we started the podcast then.
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: So if you go back, you could be a little cringe-worthy for some of the stuff that we're saying now that COVID ended up being a huge thing over many years.
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: That is sort of how pelvic PT rising was born.
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: We started pelvic PT rising podcasts, we started business mentorship.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: I started doing clinical courses all of that time.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Well, meanwhile, having pelvic sanity continued to grow, and so pelvic sanity has been in existence since 2016.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: Pelvic PT rising has been in existence, with both business and clinical stuff since 2019.
• 3:26
  Speaker 1: So… All that is to say is that that's what we're doing.
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: We're super busy personally.
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: You can check out my Instagram at NicoleCoseneDPT.
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: We have a wonderful, cute little seven-month-old son named Clay, and that has sort of rocked our world into different ways and different arenas.
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: We had a pretty significant fertility journey, with some loss, some grief, some tumultuous times to get to him, and so we're really just thankful that he's here and it's really changed some of the way that I view pregnancy, postpartum rehab.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: Jesse, did I do it?
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: How many minutes.
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: I think we got to most everything.
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: You forgot to mention the pelvic PT huddle.
• 4:09
  Speaker 2: Oh, shoot Of 9,000 plus practitioners in a Facebook group who are learning and growing and collaborating together.
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: We also have the PTOT Entrepreneurs Group, the largest public health-based business group out there.
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: Almost 2,400 people in that, which is really exciting.
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Exciting.
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: In terms of clinical courses.
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: Almost 1,600 people have taken Nicole's clinical courses and we've helped about 400 businesses start, grow and scale.
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: And, as you guys may know, my name is not Dr Jesse.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: It's not Dr anything.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: And in fact Jesse had to rush get a master's in business.
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: He got his MBA right before we got married, hold on In 13 weeks, by the way, which is still a record for Western Governor's University.
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: Go fighting owls.
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Is that even valid?
• 4:59
  Speaker 2: I mean they gave me a piece of paper, nicole I who knows, I mean anybody can do Canva these days.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: It might have been a scam.
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: I'll be honest with you guys.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: My final report was on.
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: I don't know.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: What even was it on?
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Do you remember?
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: I actually have no clue.
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: I feel like I got a little bit of carpal tunnel in my.
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: I think I wrote 800 pages in a couple of weeks of stuff to just get through those courses.
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: Seriously, right before, no joke, right before our wedding it's gonna be great.
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: Nicole's dad's really gonna respect me now that I've at least got a master's and new flash.
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: That did not happen.
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: So, guys, that was not one of my better ideas, but that's a little bit about us, yeah, wait real quick.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: And then if someone asked you, jesse, what the hell are you doing here?
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: Why are you on this podcast?
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: How do you have any relevance to the field at all?
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: I would argue that you do have pretty decent knowledge, maybe even like a new grad pelvic health PT, do you think?
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Well, my knowledge is very narrow but very deep in certain areas.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: So I have, my background is in physics, I have a degree in physics.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: I soon realized that I was not meant to be a physicist and I can't even change a light bulb, so that was not gonna be a good career move for me.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: And then, when Nicole was starting public sanity, I was consulting, I was doing business consulting, working for myself, and realized that I could step in, I could sit at the front desk, I could at least greet patients as they were coming in and out and, honestly, guts sucked in.
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: I found that this is a massive need.
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: I found that, you know, we ended up writing the IC solution together and we got a lot of the feedback and information from that.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: And just hearing patient stories really brought home that people are not getting adequate pelvic health care in a lot of parts of the country.
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: And I think that's been Nicole's passion and it was something that I kind of adopted as my own.
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: So that's where we've been.
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: How many patients do you think you've talked to over the years?
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: Because, I mean, jesse ran our front desk at a pretty bustling public health practice, because we, of course, wouldn't business mentor people now to make the same mistakes we did.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: We actually hired a front desk person way too late because Jesse was doing it all.
• 7:04
  Speaker 1: So how many patients do you think you've talked to?
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I mean it's-.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I think it's 7,500 at this point it's pretty a lot.
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: We figured it out.
• 7:10
  Speaker 2: It's a lot I was trying to figure out.
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: This is actually a sad side note.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: I was like man.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: I wonder mathematically if I've talked to more patients than all 130 people in our accelerator program combined.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: You might have, I mean seriously, it might be close.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: We were trying to figure it out.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: I was like, ah, there's a couple of pretty dang big practices in there that might skew the numbers a little bit, so I'm not 100% sure, but it was definitely in a long period.
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: I just jumped back on the phone today.
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, sometimes you just gotta jump back and ride the bike again.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: And then I will say too that Jesse is pretty much the reason why any of my clinical courses exist, because I do not have the gift of being able to take what's in my brain and make it super concise.
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: So there's a lot of times where I am where Jesse plays just like the investigative journalist, asking good questions and trying to get out of me what I want to put in these courses, and then I'll have some really cool idea, and then he won't see me for a while and then it'll be like okay, the course is almost done.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: And then I procrastinate for a while and Jesse just says okay, I just announced it in an email that your course is coming out at this time.
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: And that sums our relationship up in a nutshell.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: That's it, guys.
• 8:19
  Speaker 2: If it wasn't for me, all of Nicole's clinical courses would be 150 hours of length.
• 8:24
  Speaker 2: So you guys are welcome for cutting it down.
• 8:26
  Speaker 2: So that's a little bit about us in a nutshell.
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: You can obviously follow Nicole online.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: Nicole Cozine DPT.
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Oh snap, jesse, just started a threads account with your one freaking thing.
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I did do a thread.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's on Instagram too.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Hi, jesse Cozine, I'm sure you'd get a lot of followers now, jesse, oh this is gonna.
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: I'm gonna be blowing up y'all.
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: You guys can tell from my voice how much I give a shit about that.
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: But here we go.
• 8:53
  Speaker 2: I actually loved it here from anybody on there who thinks that my jokes are great or who thinks they wanna hear me a little bit more on the podcast.
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: So I would be very glad to hear from you guys.
• 9:01
  Speaker 2: But, nicole, let's dive in here.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: So five reasons to consume services, and one of these I think is really important as we start talking about and really what we're talking about is to consume other health services, and I think this is something that we see a lot as we business mentor, as we see our own staff members come in.
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: If you actually look at, we say that investing in your health is so important.
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: As physical therapists, as people in the medical field, we tell our patients to do that.
• 9:33
  Speaker 2: And then, if you actually ask most physical therapists or occupational therapists in public rehab, when's the last time you went to something?
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: And you went to something and didn't have your friend or coworker treat you, because that's where all of us also start to go wrong.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: Is we just sort of piecemeal together our treatments, and that is not what we're talking about here.
• 9:55
  Speaker 1: We're talking about actually seeking out and consuming, meaning paying money for some sort of a healthcare service to help ourselves.
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: If you ask people when the last time they did that was, usually you're met with a long awkward pause.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: It's not usually somebody who pops up with, oh yeah, last week I was in doing this thing and this thing and this thing.
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: So we're gonna talk a little bit about why that is actually so important, both as a clinician and as a business owner.
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: But as we kind of unpack this, I think the first part, Nicole, you guys have a very physical, physically demanding career.
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: Getting help early on is something that is going to prolong your career, either in the physical or the mental realm.
• 10:37
  Speaker 1: Absolutely, and I don't think that there has to be something quote unquote wrong for us to do this.
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, if we are really practicing what we preach in terms of wellness services, y'all don't have to have something that's actively hurting or bothering you or something in order to get care.
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: And so I think that if we look at our careers as in a timeline that's long it's not just right now and I know sometimes if you are just graduating, you're 25, bright-eyed and bushy-tailed you can't even fathom what this might look like.
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: But I've been practicing for 17 years.
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: I've been primarily a manual-based therapist and, knock on wood, I've had never had something where I've had a physical problem that has prevented me from treating patients, and that's because I've taken care of myself in that way and watched body mechanics and gotten my own care and treated myself and done all the things.
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: So in this case, we're actually talking about seeking out other ways to make your body and your mind more sharp, and, again, you don't have to have something wrong in order to consume these services.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: You know, I think this is a fascinating thing too, right, because a lot of you listening to this spent a quarter of a million dollars on your degree.
• 12:03
  Speaker 2: You graduate into the workplace and I totally understand this.
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: I graduated a lot of student debt, and Nicole certainly did.
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: But think of what you would be investing in your body, in your mind, as part of that investment.
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: You've already put $250,000 into your career.
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: What's another $1,000 a year to make sure that you have a happy, healthy career as you go forward, and I think sometimes we don't think about that as an investment in the longevity of things.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: But you know, nicole, you've been to mental health places.
• 12:39
  Speaker 2: You've been to acupuncture, you've been to chiropractors, you've been to the team at pelvic sanity, you've been to orthopedes over the years, and that's one of the reasons you've been able to have a really great career, and you don't often see a ton of geriatric physical therapists out there.
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, let's just be real.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: The last time I went into a clinic it wasn't a bunch of 60 year olds.
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely.
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: Especially not in that manual based world.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: But even if you are an exercise based therapist, the fact that we have to be active on our feet, showing people exercises and, by the way, when we show somebody an exercise, it should not look very hard One of the things that make us good is to be like oh yeah, I can talk, explain the exercises in a one minute plank, as someone's videoing me for their exercise library and I shouldn't be shaking, Okay.
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: I'm thinking right now guys.
• 13:32
  Speaker 1: I am not.
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: Actually, postpartum has sort of been rocking my shit, but I will say this that I did a pretty good job of this before, but, being pregnant, I really hit the gas on this and really was forced to in a lot of ways because I had a high risk pregnancy.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: If you want to go back and listen to some of those podcasts of our journey, I would do that, but the thing is is that it's really important to invest, and whether or not you're forced to do it or you just want to make a commitment to yourself to do it, I think that it has helped me.
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: To put myself first, I always talk about being in pelvic health care.
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: Specifically Pelvic rehab is a place where we can very easily go into a slippery slope of people pleasing and feeling so bad for our patients because they have all kinds of things going on.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: They've got mental health issues, they have physical issues that are legitimately tough to deal with.
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: They're complex and we really have to come from a place of good health for our nervous systems to be co-regulating with our patients, and if we aren't taking care of ourselves first, even in the absence of something being wrong, then are we really showing up the best way for our patients, and I would argue that answer is no.
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: So that's the number two reason to do this is putting yourself first, is really being deliberate about that, in the same way that you would tell your patients to be, and it gives you, I think, more credibility at Nicole, if you're telling your patients to go and do all of these things and in your mind you're sitting there saying I would never go, do that.
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think too, just even just from a human level, it's different to say I'm not going, to say you should go do this thing, and also it's different to say that than it is to say hey.
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: I've actually found this to be quite helpful.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: I would highly recommend it for you as well.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Because of these clinical reasons, that sounds a lot more compelling.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: We can get our patients to do other things.
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: Now, is that the only reason why you should do it?
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Absolutely not.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: But when there's tangential benefits like prolonging your career and putting yourself first and the other ones on this list, like there are other compelling reasons to do this, Absolutely so.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: If you need some more of those reasons, I think the third one is fighting burnout and, nicole, you've talked about it a lot that pelvic health is a massive challenge.
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: It is a puzzle.
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of complexity in what you guys do every day.
• 16:08
  Speaker 2: I'm frankly, in awe of all of the different things that you look at and evaluate and treat all the different things.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: There's the entire psychological component, where not only are you dealing with physical issues, but you're also dealing with people whose marriages are on the rocks, who are dealing with problems in the most personal, intimate area.
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: That you guys are carrying their burdens all of the time Like that is a recipe for burnout and a lot of times we don't recognize that or take proactive action until you're feeling that way.
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: But if you know you're in a field where that's a major risk, why are we not being more proactive about it?
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, what would we tell our patients?
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: We would totally tell our patients to do exactly what I'm telling you to do.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: And the other thing that's interesting about consuming services to fight burnout is this I feel like if we make a commitment to start with the end in mind, be like I am going to have better mental health, better physical health and I'm going to seek that out Then what it also forces us to do then is take a.
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: For those of you who don't know me very well on this podcast yet, I always talk about taking an introspective look.
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: Take an introspective look at what actually would be the most beneficial thing for me right now.
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: Is it going to a yoga class or is it getting a massage, or is it actually going to a mental health therapist, because I have this low grade anxiety that's ruining a lot of my relationships right now.
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: I think that if we are making the commitment to, if you take this podcast to heart and you make the commitment to be like I'm going to figure something out and pledge to consume a service, then we can take an introspective look and say, hey, what do I actually need and what is the top of the list, and take a really good hard.
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Look at that and hope that you would then act on that, and my guess is just to be real with y'all.
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: It's probably friggin mental health therapy, just saying.
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: I mean real talk, honestly, come on.
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: Well, and that's one of the things that I feel like is really interesting, when we talk about an investment and truly investing in yourself and Nicole, you've told this story a couple of times on the podcast, but you worked with a I don't even know what kind of practitioner it was I'm sure you can tell the story better than I can but who helped you develop a reset ritual in the clinic to kind of cleanse your thoughts between one patient and the next, to kind of let that wash off to not, you know, take that energy from that patient who was really down and in chronic pain, and bring that same energy to your next patient, who's, you know, six weeks postpartum and excited to get back to exercise.
• 18:57
  Speaker 2: Can you tell a little bit about that, because that was literally a couple of sessions.
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: I think that changed the entire trajectory of your career.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know what's interesting about that?
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: So it was actually someone that was a certified hypnotist but then also called herself a guided imagery specialist, and here's the interesting thing about that.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: You know, actually this is another new fact.
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if many people on the podcast listening know this about me, but y'all might think that I'm super straight as an arrow in terms of science and evidence and all this stuff and very scientific base, but I can't get a little woo woo, and what's interesting is that I didn't used to be like that.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: And so around the time when I was feeling a little bit overwhelmed with the amount of chronic pelvic pain patients that I was seeing because I've always had a very heavy case load of that and at the clinic that I was working at prior to pelvic sanity, it was, I mean, I'm talking mostly severe cases of interstitial cystitis, pedental neuralgia, failed surgeries, prolapse surgeries, mesh like all kinds of really just involved patients, and one of the people that came in as an adjunct to our clinic at that time was a guided imagery and hypnotherapist, and so I at that time was still extremely I was just very not open to any of that stuff.
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: A skeptic, shall we say.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: I was a skeptic, shall we say, but I wanted to.
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: If I was going to refer somebody to this person who was working in our clinic, then I wanted to know what she was all about.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: So I semi-reluctantly scheduled a couple of visits with this person and, hands down, single-handedly, she changed the trajectory of where I potentially was headed with being massively burnt out treating this really complex patient population.
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: She helped me and I think, honestly, because I was open to it, I really did sort of just let it all go.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: I just said I'm going to leave all of my ego, all of my preconceived notions about what this lady is doing at the door, and it was at her house, her home office, which I also thought was super weird at the time.
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: And so we go in and she starts off with this I don't know all these like mantras and her.
• 21:21
  Speaker 1: She tells me this story and all the stuff now where I'm like, oh, I totally am super down with that.
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: But long story short, she really helps me to identify that I needed two major things.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: Number one was a reset ritual in between patients and what was the imagery that I was going to use to separate my patients and we have a whole podcast on that it's called.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: I feel like it's what's your reset ritual.
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: And then the second thing that she helped me do was to visualize what kind of practitioner do I want to be in terms of how close can a patient get to me that I can still control that?
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: The depth at which they see me, they interact with me I can control that.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: So, long story short, there was some really cool imagery that I still use to this day about if somebody is coming in in a really dark place.
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: I have a little imagery ritual that I use so that I don't have to take on all of their stuff, but I can still be very much present and transparent for them.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: It's just a protective mechanism for me.
• 22:33
  Speaker 1: So that is an example of me being able to consume services in order to fight this potential burnout, or fight burnout when I was really right on the edge.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: And that's actually something that we'll talk about a little bit later, because we're going to talk a little bit more about that at Pulvicon with Jessica and Mai's talk at the Clinicians' Lunch.
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: But that is so important to be able to identify what might be the thing that you need most right now if we're going to fight burnout and consume different services.
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: And honestly, if you think about that investment right and paying that person to do that you were willing to pay $200, $250,000 to start your career was a couple of sessions with this person to be able to do it for two decades, three decades, four decades, happily and successfully.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: Worth it Absolutely.
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: Totally.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: I use that stuff that we talked about way back when I was just a little itty-bitty therapist.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: I use it every single day, every day.
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: And so what else could you be all missing out on if you're not making that commitment to yourself to get in a better mental health space, get in ahead of the burnout and take care of your body, prolong your career, all the things?
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: Okay, so the last two here so that was one, two and three, number four, number five are becoming better clinician and become a better business owner.
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: So if you are not a business owner, obviously pay attention to what we're talking about with the clinician.
• 24:10
  Speaker 2: But, nicole, I think this is so interesting, how, seeing someone else doing their and even my eyes have been open now being around enough I think it's so interesting when you go to see another clinician and you're almost evaluating them, professional to professional.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I imagine it's like when it's being a professional musician going to another person's concert, being like, oh, that's interesting.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Oh, they started with that song.
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: Oh, I know why they did that.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, did this work out well?
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: Ooh, actually that was a little bit of a weird chord change, like it gives you the ability.
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: It almost shines a mirror on your own practice, I think.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, for the positive and for the negative.
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: So there can be things that someone another clinician has you do that just kind of rub you the wrong way, makes you feel a little weird, makes you feel a little vulnerable, something like that.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: Or it could go the other way where you can be very happy with what's happening and the way that you're feeling that session, because you can learn something from their process.
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: So putting yourself in your patient's shoes like that, it can also put you in the position of being in that vulnerable space as well.
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: So it's just a really good thing to remember how hard it is sometimes for patients to come into our office.
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: You know I always talk about how no one really loves to go to pelvic therapy.
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: No one really wants to be in your office.
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: As excited as we are to treat them, they are not as excited to be there.
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: And so, especially if you have something that's going awry in your own life, if you have something that hurts, if you have something that you're working through mentally, if you have a challenging thing going on, it's really hard to make that first phone call.
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: It's hard to go.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: It's hard to fill out the intake paperwork.
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: It's hard to sit there and wait.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: It's hard to anticipate what's going to happen in the session.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: It's hard to open up to somebody.
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: It's hard to tell somebody what the issue is.
• 26:13
  Speaker 1: It's hard when someone doesn't understand you.
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: It's hard for all of those things.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: And in putting yourself in that patient role, you can take the things that are really great about a clinician that you are working with and you can take some other things that might need some work and you can take that back and you can become a better clinician from your own patient experience.
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: I know many of you listening were inspired to get into pelvic health because of your own experience and it's a continuation of that.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: It's what made me feel comfortable about this.
• 26:44
  Speaker 2: What didn't?
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: What in their paperwork was a little bit awkward.
• 26:48
  Speaker 2: What did I not feel?
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: Listen to those things as you go and work with somebody else and even just like the little stuff.
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: Nicole, how comfortable are you in the room?
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: We did a whole podcast episode on the paper on your ass, cheeks.
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, if you actually go into your gynecologist's office and have to put your ass cheeks on that paper bullshit that they have on their OBGYN table, you will not do that to your patients.
• 27:16
  Speaker 1: It's terrible.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Same thing with draping.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: That's one of the reasons why I go over that and our onboarding of pelvic sanity.
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: It's because it really does matter that little things like that matter when you're the one that's on the table, when you're the one that's in that vulnerable position.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: If you don't know that you need to take your socks and shoes off because no one told you, and you're sitting there wondering, like am I supposed to take off my shoes also?
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Like that is something that it can seem so trivial, but it's actually a really big deal if you're the one that's in that role, and so putting yourself in that role deliberately kind of kills two birds with one stone.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: It allows you to get that perspective and it also allows you to do the one, two and three things that we've already talked about.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: So I would highly recommend doing that and paying attention to what you can glean from your experience and take it back to your own patient care.
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: And then the last one we have Nicole if you are a business owner, this will make you a better business owner.
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: It is going to help you confront your money mindset issues.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: This is a really interesting thing.
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: A lot of people decide to start a cash practice and have never actually been somewhere for cash services, and if you are getting frustrated that people call you and their first question is do you take my insurance?
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: And you call other places and your first question is do you take my insurance?
• 28:43
  Speaker 2: There's a little bit of a double standard there, and so I think that's one thing that we always recommend to our mentorship groups Go out, try somebody, go to somebody who's got a similar model of yours, put your money where your mouth is, and this helps you to evaluate the process.
• 29:00
  Speaker 2: I think you guys will notice, once you are business owners, you can't just sit back and not evaluate someone else's business when you go in.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Every time you go into a restaurant, you're like I wonder what the margins are here.
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: One of your cleaners man.
• 29:12
  Speaker 2: I wonder how many units they do per day, what's the upsell of that?
• 29:15
  Speaker 2: What's the tip like?
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: So be thinking about that as you evaluate their process in even more depth than you would as a clinician.
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: What was it like to call their front desk?
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: What was it like to schedule an appointment?
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Did they follow back up with you?
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: What was their paperwork process like?
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Is there anything that you want to emulate or that you want to make sure that you don't do for your own people?
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: And this is also a great way to build relationships in your local community, because nothing says that you respect someone else as a practitioner like paying to go see them.
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: You can have meetings, you can have talks, you can try to go explain the public floor to them, but man going to somebody and actually being willing to say, yes, this is worth investing in.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: This is my health.
• 30:00
  Speaker 2: I'm going to pay you.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: This is how much I respect you.
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: That's huge.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And people who do that build relationship.
• 30:08
  Speaker 2: They find their tribe and have an amazing local community with us.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: Yes, I want to go back to the confront.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: Your money mindset issue, because I think this is the number of people that have cash practices that never have actually submitted a super bill themselves like is absolutely appalling to me.
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: If you haven't done that, you need to schedule something with a cash based practitioner immediately.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: Like after this podcast, you need to be like oh shit, I need to get off my ass and do this, because that is absolutely just like not allowed.
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: You're not allowed to ask that of your patients and if you're not willing to do it yourself, that's just not fair.
• 30:44
  Speaker 1: And you're also super unhelpful when somebody is actually coming back to you and saying like, oh, my insurance company said this.
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: You have not had that experience, so please just do that so it can also bring up for you what you think is expensive.
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: Are you willing to go to the bougie massage per place, or are you going to the $25 foot massage place down the street Because the other place is too expensive?
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: If you commit to yourself to actually go and do this, then you're going to find out real fast what you think is expensive and then you can turn around and say, well, what am I asking my own patients to do and then we can start to really have some good confrontation of your own money mindset issues, which ultimately is going to make you a better business owner.
• 31:32
  Speaker 2: Absolutely so.
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: Guys, those are your five reasons to consume health care services yourself.
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: Prolong your career, put yourselves first, fight burnout, become a better clinician and become a better business owner.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: And Nicole, in our introduction I feel like we missed Pelvicon completely, but you are a co-founder of Pelvicon, along with Jessica and Andrew Real.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: That is the first ever conference buy and for pelvic rehab that happens in Atlanta every year.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: Last year was 400 people descended.
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: We took over a hotel.
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: This year is 625 people in a little bit less than a month, which is absolutely nuts.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: We are doing a boatload of work on all of the details, getting everything perfect for you guys.
• 32:14
  Speaker 2: If you are coming, make sure that you have gotten your add-ons.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: We are now sold out of the celebration dinner.
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: We warned you guys that we had a limited number of seats.
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: We were not fucking around.
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: The fire marshal will not let us add more people to that, but there still are tickets for the clinicians lunch and for the business owners lunch and for the post con with J Michelle Martin and Amber Brown on labor and delivery.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: Absolutely need to check that out If you are jealous, if you missed out on tickets, if you couldn't join us this year, make sure that you get the recording.
• 32:48
  Speaker 2: There is a couple more weeks to get that early bird discount $50 off of that recording.
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: You are going to get all of the amazing speakers, both of their talks, the Pelvicon manual, lifetime access all of that good stuff.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: Make sure to head to pelviconcom to make sure to get access to all of that.
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: Nicole, did we miss anything else?
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: No, but we are serious, y'all.
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: We do not do any of those sleazy sales tactics If we say there is limited space.
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: There is limited space.
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: First thing that is super awesome is sold out.
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: We did not even tell anybody what we are going to get for entertainment.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: Y'all are going to shit.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: It is going to be so fun, it is going to be great.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: Let me give you a clue.
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: It is going to be a great way to say bye, bye, bye to Pelvicon.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Good job.
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: I cannot reiterate enough that listen to what we say, pay attention.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: This conference is less than a month away, when this podcast is dropping.
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: There are certain things about our numbers that we have to tell people.
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: We have to tell the caterer, we have to tell the hotel.
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: We have to tell people our own numbers, even if there is not something that is limited space.
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: Our deadlines are coming up for that kind of stuff.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: We are not joking.
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: We need you to not miss out.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: We need you to do the things.
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: If you are coming to Pelvicon, we also need you to buy the recording, because that also has an end date for the early bird pricing.
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: Yes, make sure to check that all out, guys.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening.
• 34:11
  Speaker 2: We appreciate each and every one of you.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: We love getting the reviews, the comments, the DMs, all of that stuff.
• 34:16
  Speaker 2: Let's keep this conversation going.
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: Let's continue to rise.