Latest / Stuff Mom Never Told You / Fictional Women Around the World: Carmen Sandiego

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Fictional Women Around the World: Carmen Sandiego · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sandy and Samantha.
• 0:06
  Speaker 2: I'm welcome to stuff I've never told you, Protection by
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: Heart Radio and welcome to another sub sub subsub sub segment,
• 0:22
  Speaker 2: pictional Women around the World. Today we are talking about
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Carmen San Diego. There are gonna be some spoilers because
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: there is a new show on Netflix, is there.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know that.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: It's a new animated show. Carmen san Diego is voiced
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: by Gina Rodriguez, but I'm not gonna go too much
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: into that because the Lord's deep. My friends, it's pretty new,
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: so and a lot of I just saw, like, wow,
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: the canon is changing so rapidly in Carmen San Diego.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: But I will talk about it a little bit. What
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: is what is your experience with Carmen san Diego, Samantha.
• 1:03
  Speaker 3: Oh, I grew up in the generation of PBS. Where
• 1:06
  Speaker 3: in the world is Carmen San Diego. I was just
• 1:07
  Speaker 3: talking about the fact that TikTok had a video of
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: the Rockapillas doing the outro song at the end, it's
• 1:15
  Speaker 3: so good.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Where in the world is Carmen San Diego?
• 1:20
  Speaker 3: Anyway? All that to say, yes, and I remember so well.
• 1:26
  Speaker 3: I think she was a cartoon. They never actually had
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: a character of her. You just had to find her
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: and the kids would find her and get a prize.
• 1:34
  Speaker 3: It was one of my watches for a little while.
• 1:36
  Speaker 3: It's so vague. It's right there with Captain Kangaroo, Don't Worry,
• 1:40
  Speaker 3: Don't't worry about Me, like in that vagueness. As well
• 1:43
  Speaker 3: as Ghostwriter. It was Ghostwriter and where in the world
• 1:47
  Speaker 3: is Carmen San Diego. Those are the ones that I
• 1:49
  Speaker 3: remember the most, but I still don't remember. But man,
• 1:52
  Speaker 3: it was something.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: It was something, and I don't know any more about her.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: I just know the game show.
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: Oh you're gonna learn.
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: I'm excited this is This was a fun one. I'd
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: never really watched the show. Spoiler alert, not really because
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: it's from the eighties. Uh this she actually started as
• 2:12
  Speaker 2: a video game character.
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that.
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: I didn't play any of the games, but I would
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: have loved them.
• 2:19
  Speaker 3: I remember pet playing on the computer. She was a
• 2:23
  Speaker 3: geography game, and I played that as well. I think
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: it was in the third grade. Look it was good.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. I would have loved it. I would
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: have loved it.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: But I think OSMOSI she was just so popular that
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: I somehow knew about her, like I knew the song,
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: I knew how she was gay queer lore for her.
• 2:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think I remember that coming on later
• 2:47
  Speaker 3: and I was like, yeah, that makes sense, that makes sense.
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sense.
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: I will say a lot of I have several friends
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: who dresses Carmel san Diego for like Halloween and love it.
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: A lot of them are queer.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: That doesn't necessarily mean anything, but it is something that
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: I've noted in pest.
• 3:06
  Speaker 3: I just remember that being a thing much later. And
• 3:07
  Speaker 3: this is again, this was my childhood, so.
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Well, I oh my gosh, this was such a fun one.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: And actually I'm gonna call it out later, but there
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: is a great article you can read about how much
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: this meant to teachers, especially when it came out in
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: the eighties. So okay, yes. Carmen san Diego. The character
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: Carmen san Diego was first introduced in nineteen eighty five
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: and the first of what would grow to become twenty
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: two video games and later three TV shows, some of
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: them Emmy winning multiple board games, books and comics, and
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: in twenty nineteen, Netflix debuted a new series focused on
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: Carmen San Diego. There are classroom resources, books, games that
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: you can use in the class. There's a whole website
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: carmensan Diego dot com you can look up more about this.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Her story has recently gone through some retconning, so please
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: feel free to write in if I make mistake. I
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: would actually love to hear about it. I know one
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: of our listeners has.
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: Written about this. Okay, yeah, love it.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: I love it, yes, okay looking at the game. In
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  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty three, game programmer Dane Bigham started work on
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: what would eventually become the video game Where in the
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: World Is Carmen San Diego. In these early stages, it
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: was really just a framework. It was a graphic based
• 4:37
  Speaker 2: game for kids that was like literally all they knew
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: what they wanted. Eventually, he and his team settled on
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: cops and robbers as a theme because they wanted to
• 4:46
  Speaker 2: differentiate themselves from like a dungeon based game that was
• 4:52
  Speaker 2: really common at the time. So this would have you
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: you would have a clear objective instead of like wandering
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: around to dungeon and maybe not knowing what you're doing.
• 5:02
  Speaker 2: Bigham's boss came up with the idea to include a
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: hard copy of the world Almanac and book of facts
• 5:08
  Speaker 2: with the game.
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: This was new, This was like a new thing.
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  Speaker 2: This edition also spurred on the idea that the game
• 5:17
  Speaker 2: could add elements of the almanac into it, and this
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: led to the international bit. But the programmers wanted to
• 5:25
  Speaker 2: avoid the educational label because those types of games were
• 5:28
  Speaker 2: not great at the time.
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: They weren't cool.
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: So they were like, how do we add in this
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  Speaker 2: almanac but not make it too education at least on
• 5:41
  Speaker 2: the front of it. It doesn't look like that. And
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: a lot of these games at the time relied on
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: blocks of text, like a digital version of a choose
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: your own adventure game, so you like do you go
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: this way or do you go that way? Which wasn't
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: always the clearest for kids. So this game added images
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: to make it more accessible, along with multiple choices of options.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: So if you haven't seen it and you're a nerd
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: like me, I really recommend looking it up. But it's
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: essentially like a picture of somewhere in a different country,
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: like in Prague, and it'll say, like you find a clue,
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  Speaker 2: it's a red whatever for whatever, and it gives you
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  Speaker 2: four like multiple choice Like I searched this, so I
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: talked to this person.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: I do like all these things. I would have loved it.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: I tell you I would have ate this up.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: In the game, Carmen san Diego is your main nemesis.
• 6:38
  Speaker 2: She was the leader of the villain's International League of
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: Evil or Vile. She and her crew would steal famous
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: works of art or landmarks. The player who worked for
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Interpol and later something else but Interpol. It first, oh
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: Acme Acme would use the almanac to interpret clues to
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: figure out where is Carmen san Diego. Basically, plot wise,
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: the player would investigate thefts around the world fine clues
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: that would lead them to the criminals next target, until
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: they caught the criminals, although you could make a mistake
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: and then you would have to backtrack and you would
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: lose time, so there's a time element as well. As
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: the player catches her henchman Carmen. Though she ducks, she alludes.
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: Her wit and ability to evade capture made her something
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: of an anti hero to girls and Latina folks at
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: the time, and in the writing process she went from
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: a minor character to the mastermind. Her character was portrayed
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: as a thief with a heart or a thief who
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: wanted a challenge, but wouldn't hurt anyone. She's more of
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: a prankster than a criminal, and that was a deliberate
• 7:53
  Speaker 2: choice that they made. And you know, I love this.
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: Her henchman had pun names like kin hardly read and
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: polyester fabric. There I almost just read a pole list
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: and then they're so good.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: It first came out on a floppy disc. Wow, yep, wow.
• 8:25
  Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure I've played that.
• 8:28
  Speaker 2: It took a minute, but sales really took off in
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six. It was popular and burgeoning school computer labs.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: So this is around the time when schools were starting
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: to get those and here comes this game that you
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: could use in those computer labs. Within a decade, it
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: had sold four million copies and it led to so
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: many other games, some of them very specific, like where
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: in time is Carmen San Diego? Where in North Dakota
• 8:59
  Speaker 2: is Karmen San Diego? Now that one is the one
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: that I mentioned. You can find a really long article
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: about how it got made. So essentially, teachers in North
• 9:10
  Speaker 2: Dakota were like, this game is great.
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: We love this.
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: What if we could make it North Dakota based. They
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: also loved that it was it wasn't so male and
• 9:24
  Speaker 2: boy focused. The reward for success wasn't a princess or
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: anything like that. They love that, and so they kind
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: of came together. They wrote to the creators, and these
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: teachers came together, like, we love this, we love using
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: it in classrooms, we make lesson plans around it. Can
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: we make this work in North Dakota? And the teachers
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: pretty much did it, Like they came up with all
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: this trivia and worked on it and made it happen.
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: And I believe there was a recent kind of exhibit
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: of it and students who had played it it came
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: in or like I remember loving this game. I have
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: such fond memories of it.
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: It's a great article.
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: I highly recommend looking it up because it's really fun
• 10:10
  Speaker 2: to hear how they work together to make it happen.
• 10:14
  Speaker 2: The live TV show that you mentioned, Samantha on PBS,
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: ran from nineteen ninety one to nineteen ninety five, and
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: then yes, in twenty nineteen, the Netflix series came out.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: And in this Carmen was born in Buenos Aires, where
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: she went to study to be a criminal at the
• 10:31
  Speaker 2: Vile Academy for Criminals. Actually, well, I think this is
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: a retcon. Recently, it was revealed she was kidnapped. Oh,
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: and that's why she was at vile Academy for criminals.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: But anyway, during her time there, she eventually decided to
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: become a force for good and now fights against her
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: old classmates. She is an expert in stealth, an excellent
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: problem solver, proficient at gadgets, and a pro at disguise.
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: I would say in the Netflix show, she's more of
• 10:58
  Speaker 2: a Robin Hood figure, steals from bad people and gives
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: up to good people. I suppose she has your typical
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: spy skills, but like really talented. She doesn't know or
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: doesn't reveal her birth name. She goes by code name
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Black Sheep. Her father was assassinated trying to protect her
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: as a baby, and she was taken to file and
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: she loses her memories, gets them back.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: That's the whole thing.
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: And it is.
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: I think it's in season four, so it's been around,
• 11:30
  Speaker 2: and a lot of the reviews.
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: I read of it really enjoyed it. I know I
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: believe it was.
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: Listener Taylor wrote in and said that it was pretty good,
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: except for like some of the more recent episodes, but
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: people that do seem to be enjoying it, and I
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: think like.
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: This character has brought a lot of joy.
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people have these fond memories
• 11:54
  Speaker 2: of playing the game or watching the show or what
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: have you. But like you would, you would open the
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: it was really fun reading. One of the creators was like, yeah,
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: people like being right, So you know, you'd open the
• 12:10
  Speaker 2: almanac and you'd be like searching what the right answer
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: is to where is Carmen san Diego. But people were
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: kind of learning through this when they wanted to be
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: or not. I think they said the the kids were
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: more likely to use the almanac, the adults were more
• 12:28
  Speaker 2: likely to just guess anyway, There's been a lot written
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: about it. I think it's really fun and really cool.
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: I'm fascinated by the fact she's had this lasting impact.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: But I think people do like a character like that.
• 12:42
  Speaker 2: She was just fun. She always like managed to escape you.
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: But she was kind of more of a prankster than
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: a villain. Yeah, she was a fun She's a really
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: fun character. And I did find a lot of stories
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: of kids of all backgrounds and genders having really fond
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: memories of her, of thinking she represented how powerful leaders
• 13:02
  Speaker 2: women could be.
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: How smart.
• 13:04
  Speaker 3: I think.
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: Gina Rodriguez has a really good story about this where
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: she's talking to her nephew and she's I don't know
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: how it came up, but she was kind of saying, yeah,
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: you know, women, unfortunately, you often don't have the same
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: power or like whatever, and her nephew was like, but
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: put in Karma san Diego. She's the leader, she's the head.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: She's like just like believing. Well, but here I see
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: and I believe in the In the show the Netflix show,
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: most of the white male characters that are working with
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Interpol are kind of portrayed as like they don't take
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: Carmen san Diego seriously and that is their doubtful.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: That is their doubtful.
• 13:51
  Speaker 3: Oh.
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I had a great time researching this one.
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: I love Carmon sand like, I really did. She was
• 13:58
  Speaker 3: one of those that I remember growing up being like,
• 14:01
  Speaker 3: this is a really fun game. There's nothing like, there's
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: nothing concerning, there's nothing problematic about it. And I was like, yeah,
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: then the kids have been doing the show, and yeah,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: I think we've competed for computer time to get to
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: play this game. I did not look up Almanacs.
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: I was just right, you just knew.
• 14:22
  Speaker 3: I just knew with what I knew it now hell no.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: Listen, listeners, look it up. But it is fun, Like
• 14:31
  Speaker 2: I was getting into it just looking at screenshots.
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: I said, oh yeah, worries. It really was a whole thing.
• 14:36
  Speaker 3: I can't even remember, and I'm not gonna tell you,
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: like if I remember anything about the game, I just
• 14:41
  Speaker 3: know I played it, and I just know I loved it.
• 14:43
  Speaker 3: I remember Peggy Carter's outfit was so reminiscent of common
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: San Diego. I didn't know if that was on purpose,
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: m because she is a spy as well, and she
• 14:54
  Speaker 3: travels the world and she's one of the few women
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: like do it like so in my head, they could
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: have been paralleled by obviously not one's Latina and that
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: there's not so right, but she had brown hair.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: You know, people do things anyway.
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it was so significant that that's who I
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: thought maybe they had modeled. I didn't realize Marble. I
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: was like, oh dud, that would never but they were
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: so similar in like the hats and the clothes and
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: all like huh huh.
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And a bunch of people did bring up
• 15:23
  Speaker 2: like her style was on point.
• 15:25
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, even toodles today at one.
• 15:29
  Speaker 2: Point, yes, yeah, and there are people still writing about this.
• 15:35
  Speaker 2: I found very in depth studies that I was like,
• 15:38
  Speaker 2: oh wow, okay, studying the music music.
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: I'm telling you that I remember it clearly.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: Mm hmm, I do too, And like I said, I
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: to my knowledge, I didn't even watch it.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I didn't play the game, but it got to me
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: even so.
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: As But yes, listeners, we would love to hear from
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: you if you have fond memories of this, or just
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: memories at all, if you play the game, watch the show.
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: You can email us at Stephaniemil stuff at i heeartmedia
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mostaff podcast,
• 16:14
  Speaker 2: or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never Told You.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: We're also on YouTube.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: We have a tea public store, and we have a
• 16:20
  Speaker 2: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: as always to our super producer Christina, executive producer and
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: our contributor Joey.
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: Thank you, and thanks to you for listening.
• 16:29
  Speaker 2: Stuff I Never Told You is production by Heart Radio.
• 16:30
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• 16:34
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