Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Mom and dad of infant girl found starved & dead in crib blame GOD

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Mom and dad of infant girl found starved & dead in crib blame GOD · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:06
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on Serious ex m Triumph.
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Speaker 1: A ten month old little girl is dead. Why why malnutrition,
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Speaker 1: dehydration and denying the baby girl medical care, not letting
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Speaker 1: her go to the doctor. Why why why did she
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Speaker 1: lie in her bassinet and suffer and die? At ten
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Speaker 1: month old baby girl just crying and crying and crying
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Speaker 1: until she just didn't have the strength to cry anymore,
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Speaker 1: and she just laid there and died because her parents say,
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Speaker 1: we are Christians and doctors are evil. That's why I'm
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Speaker 1: Nancy Grayce. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
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Speaker 1: with us, and let me tell you right now, I
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Speaker 1: want justice. Who could let a ten month old baby
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Speaker 1: lie there crying, crying, sick, starving, thirsty, and deny the
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Speaker 1: child minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day
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Speaker 1: until the baby is dead? And then the blasphemy of
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Speaker 1: trying to blame God that it was all his idea.
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Speaker 1: Uh uh in oh, I'm not having it and I'm
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Speaker 1: not going to be happy until these two parents, Mommy
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Speaker 1: and Daddy. Is she better not jump up and claim,
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Speaker 1: oh it was his idea, it's her fault too, until
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Speaker 1: they are behind bars for life. Joining me. Dr Brian Russell,
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Speaker 1: host of investigation Discoveries, hit series Fatal Vows. Ash Wilcott,
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Speaker 1: founder of child Crime watch dot com, juvenile judge and lawyer.
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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, renowned forensics expert, author of Blood Beneath
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Speaker 1: My Feet, professor at Jacksonville State University, and Crime Stories
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Speaker 1: investigative reporter, Crime online dot com journalist Larry Mayher also
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Speaker 1: Alan Duke and Jackie Howard with me here in the studio, Larry,
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Speaker 1: just give me the facts. Seth Welch and Tatiana few
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Speaker 1: Sorry live on a farm outside Grand Rapids, Michigan. They
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Speaker 1: are accused of allowing their ten month old daughter, Mary Welch,
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Speaker 1: to die of starvation on that farm. Now, police, hold
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Speaker 1: on just a moment, Larry. You know, Larry, I respect you,
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Speaker 1: and I know your facts are straight, but I don't
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Speaker 1: like your wording. Allow the baby to die? You know what?
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Speaker 1: They might as well have suffocated her, or shot her,
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Speaker 1: or stature. She didn't die of natural causes. They didn't
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Speaker 1: just allow her to pass away, fade away into the night.
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Speaker 1: They purposefully denied her food, water, and medical treatment that
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Speaker 1: she desperately needed, and then are blaming God. All right,
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Speaker 1: let's just break that down, go ahead. Well, police say
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Speaker 1: the father called nine one one to report that the
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Speaker 1: baby girl had died in her crib. For well, okay, thanks,
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Speaker 1: that's what a day late and a dollar short to
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Speaker 1: call nine when one when the baby is dead. Sorry, Larry,
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Speaker 1: go ahead. First responders said the child's eyes were sunken
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Speaker 1: and her body was cold when they arrived, which means
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Speaker 1: she had been dead for some time, and autopsy determined
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Speaker 1: she died of malanute Christian and dehydration, and the coroner
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Speaker 1: ruled that it was homicide. Now. Mother told police when
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Speaker 1: she was being questioned that they had noticed Mary looked
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Speaker 1: skinny about a month before she died. Takana Sorry also
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Speaker 1: told police she didn't seek medical attention because she was
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Speaker 1: one afraid that Child Protective Services would take her daughter
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Speaker 1: from her custody. Also to the family didn't trust doctors
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Speaker 1: or healthcare providers, and three, the family relied upon religion
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Speaker 1: for healing both the parents and the children. Okay, to
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Speaker 1: hold on, I believe all this is coming from uh
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Speaker 1: part of the Bible. I think it is anyway where
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Speaker 1: Um Christ performs miracles and heals people, and Um He's
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Speaker 1: often referred to as the great physician, and it is
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Speaker 1: believed by many Christians, including must Helf, that miracles do
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Speaker 1: happen and healings can happen. I do believe that. I
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Speaker 1: also believe that the Lord has given me the good
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Speaker 1: sense to know how to take my children to the
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Speaker 1: doctor when they're sick. And I do know for a
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Speaker 1: fact that um as freaked out as I was. And
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Speaker 1: you knew me during this, Ashley and Alan, when the
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Speaker 1: children were babies, I wouldn't do the bundled vaccinations. I
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Speaker 1: was so afraid I would separate. They took their one
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Speaker 1: year vaccinations. Took forever, like two or three years to
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Speaker 1: get them all done, because I would do one and
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Speaker 1: then take them back a month later and do another one,
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Speaker 1: and then two months that they got all done. But
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Speaker 1: I was afraid too. I wanted to do the right thing.
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Speaker 1: But hiding behind religion while your child dies, it's not
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Speaker 1: gonna work for me. But you know what, forget about
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Speaker 1: me saying what I think. Take a listen to the father.
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Speaker 1: Let's hear it's straight from the horse's mouth. I don't
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Speaker 1: vaccinate my kids, Uh haven't had any. They're not allergic
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Speaker 1: to anything. They basically don't get sick, they'll get sniffles
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Speaker 1: for a day. Um. But I've I've kind of gone
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Speaker 1: the no vaccine rout out of out of reason and
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Speaker 1: then by faith because this is there's nothing. I just
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Speaker 1: don't I don't find it to be a very faithful
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Speaker 1: decision to do the vaccine thing. There are plenty of
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Speaker 1: people who lived healthy, long lives long before vaccines. Um,
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Speaker 1: the righteous shall live by faith. It's God who it's
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Speaker 1: God who's sovereign over disease and those sorts of things,
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Speaker 1: and and of course ultimately death. So it just doesn't well, yeah,
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Speaker 1: I guess ultimately death when you starve your baby to death.
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Speaker 1: You're hearing a little bit of the father in this scenario.
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Speaker 1: But wait a minute, I want you to hear more
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Speaker 1: of what this guy sayth seth wells and tausion. If
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Speaker 1: you're sorry now looking at felony murder and child to
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Speaker 1: be charges, you know they acted so surprised. In fact,
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Speaker 1: the woman, the mother's mouth fell open when the judge
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Speaker 1: read the charges. Right now, there's a long road to
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Speaker 1: hoe in justice in this case. There has to be investigation,
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Speaker 1: there has to be discovery, there has to be a
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Speaker 1: jury struck a trial, a sentencing if it makes it
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Speaker 1: that far, or will this case just be swept under
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Speaker 1: the rug like so many other child abuse and child
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Speaker 1: homicide cases. We are talking about a couple of so
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Speaker 1: called Christian parents who stand by and watch their ten
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Speaker 1: month old baby girl die a starvation and dehydration and
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Speaker 1: refusing to get medical treatment. Three things. One is when
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Speaker 1: you have these parents who articulate a religious rationale for
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Speaker 1: not seeking medical treatment for their kids. The rationale, when
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Speaker 1: they really explicated for you, is always something along the
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Speaker 1: lines of well, if God wanted my child to be healed,
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Speaker 1: then then God will do it. And I never understand
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Speaker 1: why they don't see all of the wonderful medical professionals
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Speaker 1: and medical resources and technology and treatments that are out
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Speaker 1: there as God acting in the world to provide a
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Speaker 1: healing opportunity for all of us, including their children. So
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Speaker 1: I don't understand the rationale first of all. But in
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Speaker 1: this case, I don't believe it because if you listen
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Speaker 1: to the mother. This is the second thing. If you
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Speaker 1: listen to the mother, she talks about the fact that, well,
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Speaker 1: there's a religious thing, but there's also this fear that
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Speaker 1: I had that maybe child protective services would look into
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Speaker 1: us and take the kids away. And Okay, so if
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Speaker 1: if you're if you're weighing, well, there's a little bit
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Speaker 1: of religion, but there's also concerns about maybe getting in
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Speaker 1: trouble with the law. Okay, then I don't believe you're
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Speaker 1: all that serious about the religion if it's just one
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Speaker 1: component of a number of earns that you supposedly had
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Speaker 1: that kept you from seeking medical treatment for your kid.
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Speaker 1: And then the last thing is, I don't even care
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Speaker 1: if they believe this or not. You can believe that
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Speaker 1: all day long for yourself as an adult and and
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Speaker 1: decide you're gonna decline medical treatment and you're gonna waste
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Speaker 1: away and die if you want to waiting for God
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Speaker 1: to heal you, fine, but you can't make that. A
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Speaker 1: child is incompetent to make that decision for him or herself.
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Speaker 1: And if you make that decision for the child, you
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Speaker 1: are a child abused. If the child's eighteen and they
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Speaker 1: want to do it, fine, But when they're sub eighteen,
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Speaker 1: you got to act in the child's best interests leaving
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Speaker 1: all opportunities available to them when they do get to
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Speaker 1: be an adult, meaning keeping them alive. Take a listen
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Speaker 1: to the dad, and let me point out this is
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Speaker 1: for Joe Gott Morgan to ponder. The child didn't die
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Speaker 1: of her illness, she died of malnutritious starvation and dehydration.
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Speaker 1: Where in the Bible does it say don't do that?
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Speaker 1: And I also want to point out that the New
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Speaker 1: Testament mentions Luke several times, and he was a physician.
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Speaker 1: So let's just think about that for a moment. I mean,
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Speaker 1: I think this whole thing is completely beast awkwards, but
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Speaker 1: I want you to listen to more of the evidence.
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Speaker 1: Listen to the dad. I'm not opposed to medicine or doctors.
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Speaker 1: I'm opposed to bad medicine and doctors that are just
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Speaker 1: well that aren't really doctors. They're just like they're almost
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Speaker 1: just their priesthoods of the medical call, the priests of
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Speaker 1: the medical call. You know, they have a certificate from
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Speaker 1: some training camp somewhere that says, you know, they got
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Speaker 1: this test score, but that doesn't mean that they they
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Speaker 1: know like about the human body and stuff like that.
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Speaker 1: And further, they they don't want to really, you know
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Speaker 1: they don't. Because I'll put it and I'll say why
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Speaker 1: I don't think you can be a good doctor if
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Speaker 1: you don't believe in creation. Why because well you have
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Speaker 1: to understand the purpose of the body, after understand how
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Speaker 1: it's supposed to function and therefore why, and both those
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Speaker 1: things require a creator in order to actually properly diagnose
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Speaker 1: and then fix it. Right. So, I think if you
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Speaker 1: believe in evolution, it's basically bad doctor practice right from
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Speaker 1: the beginning, because well, just give them drugs and see,
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Speaker 1: I'm just some idiot, common farmer man. I just barely
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Speaker 1: have a college of high school diploma. But a lot
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Speaker 1: of this stuff when it comes to the body, isn't
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Speaker 1: rocket science. It really isn't. But they try to make
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Speaker 1: it so so that they can lord it over you
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Speaker 1: to into yes, to enslave you. Because these systems are enslaving,
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Speaker 1: they truly are. And a lot of the therapies and
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Speaker 1: all this, did this, that and the other, it's all
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Speaker 1: just a lot of it's making up for sinful behavior.
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Speaker 1: Where if we would get down to the root of
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Speaker 1: the problem, which is obeying the scriptures, you know, we
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Speaker 1: would solve a lot of these health issues. You aren't
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Speaker 1: hearing the voice of father Seth Welsh, his wife Tausian
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Speaker 1: I few sorry stands by him. A so called Christian
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Speaker 1: couple accused of starving their baby to death. They refused
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Speaker 1: medical treatment. They think doctors are evil and the devil's tool,
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Speaker 1: and they stood by and let their baby girl starve dead.
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Speaker 1: A husband and wife rejecting medicine on religious grounds now
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Speaker 1: looking at murder charges after their little baby, Maryanne's ten
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Speaker 1: months old starves dead and that's not necessarily medical treatment
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Speaker 1: to Joseph Scott, Morgan forensics expert. When the police arrived
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Speaker 1: this this married couple, they lived there with their three
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Speaker 1: children and Uh Soulent Township, Michigan. They find defences outside
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Speaker 1: the home are painted with religious slogans and scripture. There's
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Speaker 1: a big big sign and white letters that says repent, believe, obey.
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Speaker 1: Slogans like that are hand painted all around the home.
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Speaker 1: They also find an addition to the slogans. They found
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Speaker 1: the baby girl dead, her face sunken in UH dead
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Speaker 1: for many many hours. Her body is cold, and the
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Speaker 1: mother admits they failed to get medical help for fear
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Speaker 1: of having the children removed from them, and that they
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Speaker 1: did not trust medical services for religious reasons. Joe Scott
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Speaker 1: she had sunken eyes and cheeks. What does that mean? Yeah,
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Speaker 1: she's suffering from mal nutrition. Just on the surface, you
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Speaker 1: can it's very easy to spot. There's also there's also
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Speaker 1: things that we can look at on the body relative
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Speaker 1: to the gums, the skin. Everything in this presentation of
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Speaker 1: malnu true and is something that the parents would have
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Speaker 1: been fully aware of. I'm really struck by this case
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Speaker 1: in the sense that, um, you know, you've got someone
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Speaker 1: that is running off the rails here relative to medical
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Speaker 1: technology and everything. And I'm looking at Welch giving this
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Speaker 1: uh you know, he's pontificating here on the air about
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Speaker 1: you know, all the stuff that he knows. Why didn't
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Speaker 1: he take his damn glasses off of his face? That
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Speaker 1: you know, that's a medical device. He can trust in
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Speaker 1: the Good Lord to restore his eyesight, but he can't.
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Speaker 1: He can't restore the life of this child, who they
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Speaker 1: have in fact starved to death. Nancy, this is a
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Speaker 1: process that would have taken, in most estimates, forty days
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Speaker 1: plus in order to facilitate to get them to to
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Speaker 1: get this child, this little angel, to this point where
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Speaker 1: this child would have succumbed. So it's not only it's
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Speaker 1: not only malnutrition that we're looking at, we're also talking
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Speaker 1: about and listen to just grasped us for a second.
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Speaker 1: The child was dehydrated at ten months old? How how
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Speaker 1: hard is it to even get a dropper of water
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Speaker 1: and place it on the tongue of his poor child?
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Speaker 1: You know? And I can only imagine what they found
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Speaker 1: at autopsy with with dehydration and starvation. One of things
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Speaker 1: you'll see is that the ton, the ton actually begins
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Speaker 1: to swell in the mouth. Can you imagine this her her,
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Speaker 1: her little tummy is probably rigid distended. Um, it's enough
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Speaker 1: just to make me want to vomit. Uh. And the
15:27
Speaker 1: fact that he is still up and running around, you know,
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Speaker 1: And I'm sure that the police were aware of this guy.
15:32
Speaker 1: You know, the deputies that worked this area, they ride
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Speaker 1: a beat around that area. You can only imagine they've
15:38
Speaker 1: passed through this hot passed by this house before. They've
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Speaker 1: got these slogans painted on the fence. And you know,
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Speaker 1: he's talking out of both sides of his mouth here.
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Speaker 1: He's saying that he doesn't trust technology, medical technology, but
15:50
Speaker 1: yet he'll sit there with glasses on facilitating his you
15:55
Speaker 1: know this the stuff that he's spewing. Not only that
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Speaker 1: he's spewing it over technology, He's using a computer to
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Speaker 1: get the word out. So I guess it's okay to
16:03
Speaker 1: use science for his end, but it's not okay to
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Speaker 1: use just basic human compassion and common sense to take
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Speaker 1: care of a ten month old child. Well, another thing,
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Speaker 1: ash Wilcott. You know in court the father's mouth drops
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Speaker 1: open and the mother starts crying when she hears the charges.
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Speaker 1: But she's just as guilty as the father, Ashley, Oh,
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Speaker 1: she is just as guilty. And so here's the thing
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Speaker 1: in this case. Religion is not a defense. It's not
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Speaker 1: an excuse. You can't hide behind religion to avoid taking
16:29
Speaker 1: care of your children. In this particular case, that's what
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Speaker 1: they chose to do. Remember as a mother, as a mother,
16:34
Speaker 1: she is They're observing the child's um decline, right, and
16:38
Speaker 1: all of these things that are happening to the child
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Speaker 1: as a result of not treating the child. And it
16:42
Speaker 1: infuriates me because it is so preventable. This child never
16:46
Speaker 1: had to suffer, never had to die. I want you
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Speaker 1: to take a listen to this. This is a shocking
16:52
Speaker 1: development in the story. Listened well, example of bad, bad
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Speaker 1: medicine when uh, when my first daughter was born, I
17:03
Speaker 1: was still kind of on the plantation a bit like that. I, um,
17:09
Speaker 1: you know, I still thought I had to kind of
17:11
Speaker 1: like report to the government, um willingly and you know,
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Speaker 1: very just okay, bring the kid to the doctor. Like
17:17
Speaker 1: I was on the fence, Like I didn't I didn't
17:19
Speaker 1: want to get my kid vaccinated. But I was just
17:22
Speaker 1: like I was afraid, you know, I didn't know what
17:24
Speaker 1: was gonna happen if I said no, um, And what
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Speaker 1: happened when I said no is I got CPS calling me.
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Speaker 1: But I learned, you know, just how to deal okay,
17:34
Speaker 1: right there, we learned at CPS. And I'm gonna hit
17:37
Speaker 1: you with this, Ashley Walcott. You're the juvenile judge. You
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Speaker 1: have actually handled cases where parents refused medical treatment for
17:43
Speaker 1: religious reasons. CPS has investigated him before they knew what
17:49
Speaker 1: was going on in the home. They did nothing. The
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Speaker 1: baby is dead. And again, the baby did not die
17:55
Speaker 1: from an illness an infection. The baby died from story marrivation,
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Speaker 1: and that takes days to occur in a baby. Days.
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Speaker 1: They stood by and let the baby die. And now
18:08
Speaker 1: they're acting shocked to court and CPS, I swear they
18:11
Speaker 1: need to be charged to they knew what was going
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Speaker 1: on inside the home and they did nothing. So there's
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Speaker 1: a lot of debate around the nation, Nancy, about whether
18:19
Speaker 1: or not CPS should be charged with a crime and
18:21
Speaker 1: situations like this, because this is a system fail, and
18:24
Speaker 1: so yes, somebody needs to be accountable, because here's the process.
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Speaker 1: If anyone, if CPS sees that a child has been
18:31
Speaker 1: neglected medical neglect and it's going to result in the
18:33
Speaker 1: injury or possible death of the child, all they have
18:36
Speaker 1: to do is go to court. And the court has
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Speaker 1: the ability the jurisdiction, Like you said, I do it
18:40
Speaker 1: all the time to sign an order or not. If
18:43
Speaker 1: the child's at risk because they're not receiving medical care
18:45
Speaker 1: because of financial excuse me, religious choices of a parent,
18:49
Speaker 1: the court can sign an order that says, yes, hospital
18:51
Speaker 1: administer whatever treatment is needed to protect and take care
18:56
Speaker 1: of the child so the child does not die. It
18:59
Speaker 1: is a simple says the court has the ability jurisdiction.
19:02
Speaker 1: I do it on a frequent basis for blood transfusions
19:05
Speaker 1: to ensure that children don't die when they don't have to.
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Speaker 1: This was a system fail. Well, I agree with what
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Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell was saying earlier. It's it's fine for
19:12
Speaker 1: you if you want to risk your life and not
19:14
Speaker 1: seek medical treatment. To extend that to your children, that's
19:18
Speaker 1: a whole another can of worms. And I can also
19:21
Speaker 1: tell you this, Seth Welch and Tausian. If you're sorry
19:25
Speaker 1: you're hiding behind the Bible, well, you know what, you
19:29
Speaker 1: can discuss that with Satan in Hell. You know, they
19:36
Speaker 1: look normal, they really do. They look like any parents
19:40
Speaker 1: you'd see with their three children walking around and Target
19:43
Speaker 1: or Walmart or wherever. You never know that inside their
19:49
Speaker 1: home it's pure hell h E double elf for the
19:52
Speaker 1: children anyway. They certainly look like they haven't missed a meal.
19:57
Speaker 1: But the baby girl, ten month old Marianne, starved dead.
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Speaker 1: And who do they blame? God? Take a listen to
20:05
Speaker 1: the dad, if you can stand it, hold your nose
20:08
Speaker 1: and listen to this. If your home birthing, you know,
20:10
Speaker 1: I it was five months before we even got Mary's
20:15
Speaker 1: birth certificate and so security cards stuff like that. So um,
20:23
Speaker 1: you know, they don't really they don't know so much
20:25
Speaker 1: about you as you might think. If you keep things,
20:27
Speaker 1: if you don't go on their plantation. If you're not
20:29
Speaker 1: birthing your kids in the hospital, they're not born into
20:32
Speaker 1: the system immediately anyway. Um, So there there's the there's
20:39
Speaker 1: lots of ways you can just basically avoid them and
20:41
Speaker 1: you know, you live. I mean, I would love to
20:44
Speaker 1: see a commune of of Christian disciples living off the
20:47
Speaker 1: grids somewhere and and just living free. And it's just like, hey,
20:52
Speaker 1: you know, if you if the government wants to come
20:55
Speaker 1: number our children, they can come do that, but we're
20:57
Speaker 1: not gonna go. We're gonna take care of ourselves. We're
20:59
Speaker 1: gonna grow our food, We're gonna cut our wood where
21:01
Speaker 1: you know, We're gonna do whatever we gotta do, but
21:05
Speaker 1: we're we're gonna live free. I would love to see that,
21:09
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna do it. You know, I'm doing what
21:10
Speaker 1: I can to try to see something like that happened.
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Speaker 1: But um, at the end of the day, you know
21:15
Speaker 1: it's not it's not one of the ten commandments. Okay,
21:19
Speaker 1: you are hearing the voice of the Father in this scenario.
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Speaker 1: You know, I hate to even call him a father
21:24
Speaker 1: because when I say father, I think of my own dad.
21:27
Speaker 1: He has passed away. There was nothing but loving and
21:30
Speaker 1: kind to all of us. You know, Joe Scott and
21:33
Speaker 1: uh Ashley, Dr Brian Russell, Larry Mayher, Alan and Jack.
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Speaker 1: You have heard me speak of him many many times.
21:41
Speaker 1: I remember him getting up with chest pains and going
21:44
Speaker 1: to work on the railroad because he wanted to send
21:47
Speaker 1: us all to college. Was afraid, not afraid. He didn't
21:51
Speaker 1: want to miss a day of work. Um. I think
21:55
Speaker 1: back on that and I hate to even put this
21:58
Speaker 1: guy in the same cat Glory is my dad. But
22:02
Speaker 1: you're hearing the voice of the father of these children,
22:06
Speaker 1: Seth Welch his wife Taussian, if you're sorry, and they're
22:11
Speaker 1: blaming their religion for the death of their ten month
22:14
Speaker 1: old baby girl, Maryanne. She did not die of an ailment,
22:18
Speaker 1: a sickness and and fiction. She died of starvation and dehydration.
22:23
Speaker 1: You know, you can go days and days and days
22:25
Speaker 1: without food, not so with water. You can only live
22:31
Speaker 1: a few days without water. And that's what happened to
22:33
Speaker 1: this baby. Larry Mayhart joining me Crime Online dot Com
22:38
Speaker 1: and Crime Stories investigative reporter. Why was Child Protective Services
22:44
Speaker 1: de facts is like, call them Department Family Children's Services
22:47
Speaker 1: onto them? What got them started on this family. It
22:50
Speaker 1: started in when their oldest daughter was born, and court
22:55
Speaker 1: records indicate that doctors found THHC, the active ingredient of marijuana,
23:01
Speaker 1: in her blood at the time she was born, and
23:04
Speaker 1: so child Protective Services reached out to the family. Wait
23:08
Speaker 1: a minute, Wait a minute, somebody mommy was using pot.
23:11
Speaker 1: What are they gonna how are they gonna blame that
23:14
Speaker 1: on Christ? Dr Brian Russell? Did he come down and
23:17
Speaker 1: give him a big fat dooby? I mean, I don't
23:19
Speaker 1: want to sound disrespectful, because I love the Lord, but
23:23
Speaker 1: I mean, how can you claim to be this upright
23:27
Speaker 1: person while you're smoking pot and you've got the you're
23:31
Speaker 1: giving birth to the baby and then refusing medical treatment.
23:35
Speaker 1: I mean, isn't that a little bit duplicate us? Yeah? Again,
23:39
Speaker 1: I don't believe that these these religious Protestations professions coming
23:45
Speaker 1: out of them are genuine. You know, earlier in my career,
23:50
Speaker 1: I used to do evaluations of people who wanted to
23:54
Speaker 1: be police officers to see if they had, you know,
23:57
Speaker 1: the mental stability to do that job of and the
24:01
Speaker 1: vast majority of cases, the people who said they wanted
24:05
Speaker 1: to go to police academy because they wanted to protect
24:07
Speaker 1: and serve that was exactly what I found them to be.
24:10
Speaker 1: But every once in a great, great while, there was
24:13
Speaker 1: somebody who was a an extremely immature, impulsive narcissist, who
24:21
Speaker 1: who was really anti social, really very much like the
24:24
Speaker 1: people the cops chased down, who wanted to be a
24:26
Speaker 1: cop because the badge gave them societal permission to go
24:30
Speaker 1: out and rough people up and lord their power over
24:33
Speaker 1: people that look like they like they always wanted to.
24:36
Speaker 1: And and I think there are parents who use religion. Uh,
24:41
Speaker 1: they they latch onto this kind of stuff. I want
24:44
Speaker 1: to be off the grid, I want to homeschool, I
24:47
Speaker 1: want to not vaccinate. Uh, you know, I want to
24:50
Speaker 1: basically have nobody overlooking what I do with my kids
24:54
Speaker 1: because they're basically abusive. And they latch onto this kind
24:58
Speaker 1: of stuff as a cover. And sometimes you see it
25:01
Speaker 1: with people who want to use drugs. They said, well,
25:03
Speaker 1: it's part of my religious observe. I'm a Rastafarian, or
25:06
Speaker 1: I need to use peyote to get close to God
25:09
Speaker 1: or whatever, And really what they just are drug abusers
25:11
Speaker 1: who want a shield, a shield where society won't question
25:16
Speaker 1: it because it's supposedly their religion. With me, Larry Mayher
25:19
Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter. So the de facts
25:24
Speaker 1: child Protective Services were onto this couple as far back
25:27
Speaker 1: as two thousand fourteen, now is two thousand eighteen, and
25:31
Speaker 1: we've got to did maybe they had four years to
25:33
Speaker 1: get it together and they end up with a dead baby.
25:36
Speaker 1: They end up with a corpse. Yeah, the fourteen case
25:39
Speaker 1: didn't result in any action by the Child Protective Services
25:43
Speaker 1: and according to the most recent filing in this case
25:47
Speaker 1: by the Child Protective Services, they hadn't had any further
25:50
Speaker 1: contact with the family. Since that's their fault, that's their fault.
25:54
Speaker 1: As you, Wilcott, you're the juvenile judge. You deal with
25:57
Speaker 1: defects every single day. Yeah, absolutely, this their faulty. They
26:01
Speaker 1: when you get any kind of referral is defacts. To
26:04
Speaker 1: look at a family, right and go to one child,
26:06
Speaker 1: You look at the entire child. Excuse me, the entire family,
26:08
Speaker 1: all of the children, any concerns, everything that's going on.
26:11
Speaker 1: That's what they're mandated to do to investigate the case.
26:14
Speaker 1: Listen to this. You know, I'm not one of these
26:17
Speaker 1: people who you know, says if you pray, God's gonna
26:23
Speaker 1: fix all your physical maladies. Um, I figure I should
26:26
Speaker 1: just get this out of the way. Uh that that's
26:29
Speaker 1: not Jesus did the physical healings to prove who he was,
26:35
Speaker 1: to prove his power, and God still does those miraculous
26:38
Speaker 1: physical healings to this day. But really more of what
26:41
Speaker 1: he's talking about is the spiritual healings, and a lot
26:44
Speaker 1: of medical problems that are increasing in this country are
26:49
Speaker 1: directly related to spiritual issues. Let's go first one, heart disease,
26:53
Speaker 1: gluttony right serving the flesh, eating fanny food. Trust me,
26:58
Speaker 1: I know all about it. I do. I'm working my
27:00
Speaker 1: weight right now. You know he's working on his weight
27:03
Speaker 1: as am I. But the reality is while he is
27:06
Speaker 1: gorging himself, his baby girl is dying. So bottom line,
27:11
Speaker 1: just got Morgan, how long can a child go a
27:14
Speaker 1: person go without water and or food? Just got Morgan
27:18
Speaker 1: is joining me, death investigator. What can you tell me
27:21
Speaker 1: about the reality of how long they stood by and
27:24
Speaker 1: let the baby starve? Absence absence of nutrients as far
27:27
Speaker 1: as food, This sort of thing depended upon, depended upon
27:32
Speaker 1: your fat stores and energy stores going in in a
27:36
Speaker 1: normal circumstance, Let's say somebody has been held in captivity
27:39
Speaker 1: you're looking at uh an outer marker of about sixty days.
27:44
Speaker 1: But now you've got a child who's lived with these people,
27:48
Speaker 1: um for this period of time, it would draw into
27:51
Speaker 1: it's gonna skew the data because you're looking at a
27:53
Speaker 1: child that has these idiots as caretakers, and so God
27:58
Speaker 1: only knows what they've been doing early on. So um,
28:03
Speaker 1: this has been something that's been drug out over a
28:05
Speaker 1: period of time. As far as water being hydrated, you
28:09
Speaker 1: can only go maybe six seven days before you start
28:13
Speaker 1: having serious repercussions relative to absence of of hydration. So
28:18
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, I'm wondering, Nancy, if this is something that
28:21
Speaker 1: the child has been given, say just kind of piecemeal
28:26
Speaker 1: over period of time, and they kind of come and
28:28
Speaker 1: go with it. And that's another question I have. What
28:31
Speaker 1: what other maladies do do they have relative to this
28:35
Speaker 1: to this child? Well that that may be true, there
28:38
Speaker 1: may be other maladies, but the coroner says the baby
28:41
Speaker 1: died of malnutrition and starvation, starvation and dehydration. The maximum
28:46
Speaker 1: time an individual can go without water seems to be
28:50
Speaker 1: about a week. I know for a fact you can
28:53
Speaker 1: go twenty one days without starving because Gandhi did that
28:57
Speaker 1: on one of his hunger protests. I know that for
28:59
Speaker 1: a fact. Okay, with water about a week max. So
29:03
Speaker 1: give them the benefit of the doubt. They at least
29:06
Speaker 1: watched the child as she died for a week. So
29:10
Speaker 1: you know what again, let me just sum up the
29:13
Speaker 1: law rot in Hell. I will not rest until these
29:17
Speaker 1: two so called parents have life behind bars and their
29:21
Speaker 1: children are in a loving home. And Orlando woman loses
29:28
Speaker 1: over a quarter of a million dollars. It was her
29:32
Speaker 1: entire life savings to a match dot com catfish mystery man.
29:38
Speaker 1: To top it all off, I'm understanding this so called
29:42
Speaker 1: mystery man used a former Bosnian ambassador's photo to lure
29:48
Speaker 1: the woman in I mean Wendy across the line of
29:53
Speaker 1: fantasy and get into your bank account and hand over
29:57
Speaker 1: the money. Two d and seventy thousand dollars. Everything she
30:02
Speaker 1: had saved, her entire life's earning now gone to a
30:07
Speaker 1: catfish or I Nancy Grace, this is crime Stories. Thank
30:10
Speaker 1: you for being with us with me. Alan de just
30:13
Speaker 1: got Morgan, Ashley Wilcot and Dr Brian Russell of I
30:17
Speaker 1: d S fatal vows Alan in a nutshell, what happened. Well,
30:20
Speaker 1: this is Diane Standis. She lives in Orlando and she
30:23
Speaker 1: was lonely. So she went on to match dot com
30:27
Speaker 1: because some of her friends had found companions through that
30:30
Speaker 1: service before everybody, you know, sneers at online dating. It works, Okay,
30:37
Speaker 1: go ahead, and this how else do you meet people
30:39
Speaker 1: these days? Well, I guess it bars Alan. Isn't that true?
30:43
Speaker 1: I always preferred Alan. I preferred church until a place
30:48
Speaker 1: that didn't work out for me. You mean those other
30:51
Speaker 1: three divorces. I met one not judging, not judging, I
30:55
Speaker 1: want you to be happy. Then I met one at
30:57
Speaker 1: court that was now, yeah, that that's whole another can
31:00
Speaker 1: of worms about why everybody's in corporate. But just let's
31:03
Speaker 1: go ahead with losing the two and seven. So so
31:05
Speaker 1: this guy with he's a handsome guy, she understood from
31:08
Speaker 1: his messages to her, And there were only a very
31:11
Speaker 1: few number of phone messages or phone conversations with this man,
31:15
Speaker 1: but she thought that he was actually working in California,
31:19
Speaker 1: and he was reaching out saying, you know, I need
31:22
Speaker 1: some money, I need some money, And she was hitting
31:25
Speaker 1: up her bank account and depositing money thinking that she
31:27
Speaker 1: was going to see this man soon his pictures were
31:30
Speaker 1: very handsome. She didn't think, I mean, it's all what
31:32
Speaker 1: you what beauty is in the iley behold or Alan
31:35
Speaker 1: duke um Because I'm looking at the photo he used
31:39
Speaker 1: on match dot com. How did the whole thing go down?
31:42
Speaker 1: That's what I want to find out. She thought he
31:43
Speaker 1: was He sent her those pictures, and she thought those
31:46
Speaker 1: were pictures of him. But he and that he was
31:48
Speaker 1: a CEO of a construction company from Germany, that he
31:51
Speaker 1: was working on a project in Bakersville, California, and once
31:55
Speaker 1: that was done they would get together and live happily
31:58
Speaker 1: ever after. Well, shaneknew him by the name Darnielle Jerry
32:02
Speaker 1: Michael after they met on match dot com. Hold on,
32:06
Speaker 1: Dr Brian Russell is chomping at the bit, you're neelywed, Okay,
32:09
Speaker 1: I'm just putting that out there. Go ahead, weigh in.
32:13
Speaker 1: I think that Alan, what Allen alluded to is correct.
32:16
Speaker 1: I think what this case really shows is the power
32:19
Speaker 1: of loneliness, because if you think about it, you really
32:22
Speaker 1: have to willfully suspend disbelief to to to accept that
32:27
Speaker 1: here you are having this online relationship with somebody who's
32:31
Speaker 1: an accomplished, successful professional CEO of a company and yet
32:35
Speaker 1: they need money from disagree. They can communicate with you
32:39
Speaker 1: about the money. They can't call you or show up
32:42
Speaker 1: and see you in person. Bryan, Dr Brian, Dr Brian.
32:46
Speaker 1: Normally I agree with you and yes, to us it
32:48
Speaker 1: sounds crazy, loony, irresponsible, but without anybody speaking out, how
32:54
Speaker 1: many of us has ever dated a bad apple? When
32:59
Speaker 1: you stay in the relationship and you don't want to
33:03
Speaker 1: face that the person is a big fat loser okay,
33:07
Speaker 1: That they've got an anger problem, that they try to
33:10
Speaker 1: pick out your clothes for you, okay and tell you
33:13
Speaker 1: what to wear every day. Okay. Uh, That they call
33:18
Speaker 1: you incessantly, that they drink too much, or they use drugs,
33:23
Speaker 1: or they yell at your kids whatever, Ashley, so many times,
33:28
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna just put it out there. Men and
33:30
Speaker 1: women do it, but I always here about women doing
33:32
Speaker 1: it the most. You turn a blind eye to facts
33:36
Speaker 1: and evidence because you love the person and you don't
33:40
Speaker 1: want to know it. You don't want to know, so
33:42
Speaker 1: you choose not to know. That happens every day with
33:45
Speaker 1: people you're physically living with. Oh gosh, absolutely so. God
33:49
Speaker 1: love us as emotional women. We are emotional women, and
33:52
Speaker 1: we're emotional about these men that we find. And the
33:55
Speaker 1: thing I want to point out that you just made
33:56
Speaker 1: clear too, is it doesn't matter if you meet somebody
33:59
Speaker 1: online or you meet somebody in person. You can always
34:02
Speaker 1: be subject to falling for a bad guy, the bad
34:04
Speaker 1: boy who's not the right one. And we should always
34:07
Speaker 1: use due diligence to make certain they don't take things
34:10
Speaker 1: like our two hundred and seventy thousand dollars from US
34:13
Speaker 1: two hundred and seventy thousand dollars. You know what, Yes,
34:17
Speaker 1: he took her whole life savings. But I see women
34:20
Speaker 1: turn a blind eye to child abuse in their own home,
34:23
Speaker 1: of their own children that get beaten, and they think
34:27
Speaker 1: it's going to get better and they stay so Dr
34:31
Speaker 1: Brian Russell, you're right, You're absolutely right. How irresponsible this
34:36
Speaker 1: was to give away money if somebody met online. But people,
34:42
Speaker 1: men and women, choose to ignore what's right under their nose,
34:46
Speaker 1: much less online. Dr Brian, that's right. And and as
34:50
Speaker 1: I I'll say it again, it illustrates the power of loneliness.
34:55
Speaker 1: Why do people do these things that an outsider looking
34:59
Speaker 1: in and thinks are such irrational choices? Because the loneliness,
35:06
Speaker 1: the feeling of being alone or the fear of being
35:10
Speaker 1: alone is so uh, it's so bad for PA so
35:15
Speaker 1: aversive to people that they they will accept anything, put
35:21
Speaker 1: up with anything, willfully suspend disbelief and believe anything to
35:26
Speaker 1: alleviate that loneliness or to avoid that loneliness. And you
35:31
Speaker 1: have to you have to recognize how powerful it is
35:36
Speaker 1: because it can cause you to to just give up
35:40
Speaker 1: your irrational part of your mind, and you can't do
35:44
Speaker 1: that when you're dating. I mean, this woman, I feel
35:46
Speaker 1: very sorry for her that she lost a quarter of
35:48
Speaker 1: a million dollars, but I feel I think she's lucky
35:52
Speaker 1: that she didn't end up on my show because the guy,
35:55
Speaker 1: obviously it was a pretty skillful sociopath and I'm not
36:00
Speaker 1: sure where the limits on that would have been. Right. Well,
36:04
Speaker 1: take a listen to this. I think you'll ever find him.
36:09
Speaker 1: I wish to god, I could you love this guy? Yeah?
36:13
Speaker 1: And he told me he was in love with me.
36:14
Speaker 1: I've talked to a million people. That's something that people
36:16
Speaker 1: on the harmony on match and they're happily married, and
36:20
Speaker 1: so I didn't have any reason to question it. This
36:23
Speaker 1: is the only voice message she saved. Are you doing you?
36:28
Speaker 1: Please call me ant thank you. He would call it
36:33
Speaker 1: from four different numbers, always in need of money. It
36:36
Speaker 1: was mostly lawyer fees, bail money. Six tract those numbers
36:40
Speaker 1: to Bakersfield, California. I never thought I could fall in
36:43
Speaker 1: love with somebody with a telephone, But for some reason,
36:46
Speaker 1: it just he just he just said the right things
36:48
Speaker 1: to me. That's right. They never met. He could be
36:51
Speaker 1: anybody anywhere. I have no clue. An online romance leaves
36:55
Speaker 1: a woman destitute. But you know what earlier, asked she will?
37:00
Speaker 1: I said, emotional women, Alan, do you my partner in crime?
37:03
Speaker 1: I believe you have a little catfish story for me.
37:05
Speaker 1: This happened several years ago between marriages. On Facebook, I
37:08
Speaker 1: got a friend request. It was a beautiful woman sending
37:12
Speaker 1: me these pictures. I looked at her profile. She was
37:14
Speaker 1: a musician. The stories she could tell me and that
37:17
Speaker 1: she did over a period of a couple of weeks,
37:19
Speaker 1: she had me going until I started doing a Google
37:23
Speaker 1: reverse image search and I realized, wait a second, that's
37:26
Speaker 1: those are Naomi Campbell's pictures. It was embarrassing, But please
37:32
Speaker 1: tell me you didn't center your life. Say no, no,
37:35
Speaker 1: She was talking about coming to Los Angeles and visiting me,
37:39
Speaker 1: visiting your wallet, Alan, not that you're You're not handsome
37:43
Speaker 1: and mysterious and all of that the total package. But
37:46
Speaker 1: I think she was interested in that. While I wanted
37:48
Speaker 1: to believe her. Here's the best thing that's just sad.
37:52
Speaker 1: She told me she was a backup singer for the
37:54
Speaker 1: Rolling Stones and she was about to go on tour.
37:55
Speaker 1: And when I go with her, I was ready. I
37:57
Speaker 1: was ready to pack up my bags and hit the
37:59
Speaker 1: road with jaggers. What other lies did she tell? Alan?
38:02
Speaker 1: Do you well? She told me that her son was
38:04
Speaker 1: the illegitimate son of singer Bob Dylan. Now that was
38:08
Speaker 1: fascinating enough, my ex partner, Alan Duke, because with that,
38:12
Speaker 1: when I just don't know if I can look at
38:13
Speaker 1: you with any degree of respect anymore. This woman out
38:17
Speaker 1: of her entire life savings over a catfisher on match
38:24
Speaker 1: dot com. Word to the wise, you are listening to
38:28
Speaker 1: crime stories with Nancy Grace