Latest / Mini Scroll / MINI SCROLL INTERVIEW: Michaela Cook on songwriting, a three-year hiatus + living up to the label "the Aussie Taylor Swift"

Transcript

MINI SCROLL INTERVIEW: Michaela Cook on songwriting, a three-year hiatus + living up to the label "the Aussie Taylor Swift" · Mini Scroll

• 0:00
  Hi everyone, welcome to a special episode of Mini Scroll
• 0:03
  today. It's not often that we do this,
• 0:06
  but every once in a while when we feel it's really worth it, we
• 0:09
  will do an interview instead of a regular episode of Mini
• 0:14
  Scroll. And that's what I have for you
• 0:15
  guys today. And I'm so excited because
• 0:18
  Michaela, who I'm interviewing, she actually is a listener of
• 0:22
  the pod and she has been for years and she was coming to
• 0:25
  Sydney. She DM Ed me.
• 0:26
  She really just shot her shot. Is that what they're saying is
• 0:29
  shoot your shot, shot her shot. And she said, I'm promoting my
• 0:33
  new single. Can I please come on the
• 0:35
  podcast? I'm such a huge fan and I know
• 0:37
  she's such a huge fan because obviously I have seen her in our
• 0:39
  DMS and comments section and that kind of stuff over the
• 0:42
  years. And I was like, let's do it.
• 0:44
  So it's not a regular episode of Mini Scroll, but I hope you guys
• 0:47
  will still enjoy it. I'm sure you will.
• 0:49
  And tomorrow you're getting a deep dive.
• 0:51
  She looms. Which is another reason why I
• 0:53
  was really struggling with the idea of doing a regular episode.
• 0:56
  Anyways, this worked out like perfectly for me.
• 0:58
  So I can still be committed to editing the deep dive all day so
• 1:01
  it goes up at a normal time for you guys tomorrow.
• 1:03
  So today I am interviewing Michaela Cook, also known by her
• 1:06
  stage name Mix. She's one of Australia's most
• 1:09
  exciting singer songwriters in the country pop space.
• 1:12
  Dubbed Australia's answer to Taylor Swift, she began
• 1:15
  releasing original music while studying at the University of
• 1:18
  Queensland, going on to achieve multiple #1 Australian singers.
• 1:22
  After an unexpected 3 year hiatus, which we do speak about,
• 1:25
  she returned with her latest single, Girl You'll Be Fine last
• 1:29
  month. Alongside her music career,
• 1:31
  Michaela has built a credible and trusted media presence as a
• 1:33
  television presenter and content creator with over 1.5 million
• 1:37
  social media followers worldwide.
• 1:40
  Thank you so much Michaela, for joining me today.
• 1:43
  Thank. You so much for having me.
• 1:44
  I feel very parasocial right now.
• 1:46
  Oh my God, I'm dead. OK, so why don't we tell
• 1:49
  everybody how we came to be sitting here today?
• 1:52
  I. Shot my shot on DM and IDMD you
• 1:55
  and I was like, hey, like I'm in Sydney for the first time since
• 1:58
  COVID. I like consume all of your
• 2:01
  content. Is there any chance you want me
• 2:03
  on your podcast? And like for some reason and
• 2:06
  very quick mind you, you actually got back to me so.
• 2:09
  Quick. Oh my God, yes.
• 2:10
  So thank you. It's.
• 2:11
  Because you're verified. So I got it.
• 2:12
  Like in the actual. Yes, it makes a huge difference.
• 2:15
  Sometimes messages, people that I follow will go into my hidden
• 2:19
  messages sometimes and I won't see them for weeks and I'm like,
• 2:22
  I literally follow this person and then obviously because you
• 2:25
  are verified, it went into like my primary inbox right away.
• 2:28
  I. Was like, I don't even know
• 2:30
  that, Yeah. So there you go.
• 2:32
  Thank you. Well, yeah, when you message I
• 2:33
  was like, Oh my God, I know you have followed because I've
• 2:35
  obviously seen you like liking things, that kind of stuff here
• 2:38
  and there. And I was like, Oh my God.
• 2:40
  Of course, like I would love to have you on the pod and we can
• 2:42
  chat. And I love when people shoot
• 2:44
  their shot. Like that's the only way you
• 2:46
  ever get anything in life. Hey, girl, like we're
• 2:47
  independents. You got it.
• 2:49
  Like how do you? Think we got to this stage, you
• 2:50
  know, you've got to shoot shots, yes. 100% OK so before we get
• 2:54
  into your career, music, all of that, can you tell me about how
• 2:59
  you are chronically online? Because obviously if you listen
• 3:02
  to the pod, that means you must be chronically online.
• 3:03
  I am absolutely chronically online.
• 3:05
  So like, like, do I have a guilty pleasure?
• 3:07
  What? Would your like guilty pleasure
• 3:09
  on the Internet be what I was? Literally looking at and
• 3:12
  researching when I I was waiting to come up here was Taylor Swift
• 3:16
  Easter eggs. That's so lame.
• 3:19
  But like. Literally because it's like.
• 3:21
  A month out to debut albums like 20th Anniversary.
• 3:25
  And so it's just like she's been seen a lot in New York.
• 3:28
  And anyway, so are you a big Swifty?
• 3:30
  Of course, I think I think like, I don't know, she has such a
• 3:34
  like vast catalog of music. I think if you're not, but you
• 3:37
  don't have to be a Swifty, but she has literally something for
• 3:40
  everyone. So I think like to say like you
• 3:42
  don't like Taylor Swift is just just simply a lie.
• 3:45
  I actually saw a comment on TikTok the other day was very
• 3:47
  recently and somebody said if you believe you don't like
• 3:50
  Taylor Swift, you just haven't needed her yet.
• 3:52
  And I was like, oh, that's really emotional.
• 3:55
  Very true. Very.
• 3:56
  Emotional. Very.
• 3:57
  True. Yeah, she does have something
• 3:58
  for everyone at this point, 100%.
• 4:00
  Let's talk about your career so far.
• 4:03
  So how did you get into music? And has music always been
• 4:07
  something that you wanted to pursue?
• 4:08
  Oh, since. Since I was 14, like I just
• 4:11
  remember having such a moment of like, I'm going to be a rock
• 4:14
  star. Like that's it.
• 4:15
  I mean, yeah, my inspirations were actually, to be honest, a
• 4:19
  lot of people think that Taylor Swift was my first ever loved,
• 4:22
  but it was actually Miley Cyrus, so Miley.
• 4:25
  And then Taylor with the songwriting, which has been
• 4:27
  really cool to kind of like, grow up alongside her as she's
• 4:30
  been doing her thing and draw inspiration and stuff.
• 4:32
  But yeah, it's just always been music for me.
• 4:35
  You specifically are into country music.
• 4:38
  What made you choose country music?
• 4:40
  Actually, my audience chose it for me, so I started out just
• 4:44
  uploading original songs to YouTube back when I was at
• 4:47
  university. So I studied communications,
• 4:50
  mass media, culture. Essentially that degree is
• 4:54
  learning how to target and like market to a mass audience.
• 4:59
  And so I would be at uni and I'd be learning these like marketing
• 5:02
  theories. And then when I'd get home, I'd
• 5:05
  just put it onto my music and be like, OK, like, let's see how
• 5:08
  this can translate to an online audience.
• 5:10
  So my online audience actually grew quite fast from the very
• 5:13
  beginning. And I'd find comments of people
• 5:15
  being like, oh, look at this country singer or something like
• 5:18
  we found this country singer. And because I think because I'd
• 5:21
  grown up with Miley and Taylor as my inspirations, like that's
• 5:25
  I think I just naturally adopted that kind of twang, even though
• 5:28
  I don't really twang. But I don't know, it's it's up
• 5:31
  to a debate of mine at the moment.
• 5:33
  But yeah, so and I think from there.
• 5:35
  So I just was like, hey, cool, I'm country, let's go.
• 5:37
  Obviously you said Miley Cyrus, Taylor Swift were inspirations
• 5:40
  for you and you are sometimes dubbed the Aussie Taylor Swift.
• 5:45
  Can you tell me how that nickname came about and what
• 5:48
  that makes you feel like? It was just in a news article
• 5:51
  one day like, and I just read it and I was like, that is now I've
• 5:55
  got a time date. I was gonna say like the dream,
• 5:58
  just. Like the dream, Like, do I quit
• 6:00
  now? Like, I feel like I've made it
• 6:03
  in this space. But yeah, it's actually like a
• 6:05
  lot of pressure to live up to that title.
• 6:09
  But no, I think it's cool and I think it's a good way for people
• 6:12
  who don't necessarily no country music or like country music to,
• 6:16
  I don't know, kind of, I guess be like, Oh, well, that's what
• 6:19
  that is like, That's the type of music.
• 6:20
  She does, yeah. Yeah.
• 6:21
  OK, That makes sense. So today you fashion yourself as
• 6:25
  both a musician and a content creator.
• 6:28
  Obviously those words or those titles, I feel like in today's
• 6:31
  day and age have become almost inseparable.
• 6:33
  Like you really have to be a content creator as an artist as
• 6:36
  well. From your experience, what does
• 6:39
  each side of that career bring to each other?
• 6:41
  In 2026, you can't have one without the other.
• 6:44
  Like, I think that's just the reality of what it is.
• 6:46
  But I think there is such a ability now for independent
• 6:52
  artists to not need a label because of social media.
• 6:55
  And, you know, your barrier to your audience, it's not that
• 6:58
  like, you know, it's literally a phone now where is back in the
• 7:01
  day, like your barrier would be had to play live or you had to
• 7:05
  invest so much money to be able to actually connect with people.
• 7:09
  But now it's you can just kind of pick up the phone and build
• 7:11
  that audience. So I think, yeah, I think it's
• 7:14
  done wonders for the independence for sure.
• 7:16
  Yeah, no, I completely agree. It's completely democratized so
• 7:19
  many industries in such a powerful way.
• 7:22
  Do you ever feel resentment though that you feel like you
• 7:24
  have to have essentially 2 full time jobs?
• 7:27
  It's not necessarily resentment, but I'm just so tired.
• 7:30
  It'll be kind of like, let's just say a Monday, a Monday to
• 7:34
  Sunday week, right? And I'll get to like Thursday or
• 7:37
  Friday. I'll be like, I haven't picked
• 7:38
  up the guitar this whole week. Like I've just been on a
• 7:40
  computer or I've, you know, been doing the things that because
• 7:44
  it's not just now the craft of the music anymore.
• 7:48
  And, you know, I've got to write, I've got to produce it,
• 7:50
  you know. But there's a whole, I guess
• 7:51
  release process that goes into. It, like all the self promo,
• 7:55
  must be so exhausting. It's the worst.
• 7:57
  Like listen to my song. Please.
• 7:59
  Yeah, I promise. You'll like it.
• 8:00
  Please listen to it plug. Your song right now, OK, so you
• 8:04
  are an independent artist, obviously I'm curious about
• 8:07
  some, if any of the hurdles that you have had to overcome because
• 8:11
  of this, because obviously we are a media company, but we're
• 8:13
  independent as well and the hurdles are truly endless, at
• 8:16
  least for us, no? Absolutely.
• 8:18
  I think so. At the end of the day, it's made
• 8:21
  me very resilient and it's made me actually be like, no, this is
• 8:24
  what I want to do with my life because there are so many
• 8:27
  hurdles that you get and you're like, at any point I could have
• 8:29
  just put the guitar down and been like, I'll do anything
• 8:33
  else. But it's it's just really what
• 8:35
  I've kind of always wanted to do.
• 8:36
  I would say gatekeepers because they're and like this might, you
• 8:41
  know, lift the gloss a little bit, but there really is not
• 8:44
  much money in music anymore. And if there is, you've got a
• 8:49
  lot of people trying to put their hands into the pie to try
• 8:51
  and get it. And so there's a lot of people
• 8:53
  gate keeping those spaces to be like, no, I'm keeping my money.
• 8:57
  Like everyone needs to pay rent, right?
• 8:58
  Like, see, you can kind of understand it, but it does, you
• 9:01
  know, you could be the best singer in the world, but if
• 9:03
  you're not signed to the right label, you don't have the right
• 9:05
  manager or, you know, you don't get put on that Spotify
• 9:08
  playlist, no one's going to kind of.
• 9:11
  Know you 100%, yeah, there's a huge discoverability issue.
• 9:14
  We can relate to that with podcasting and media too.
• 9:17
  It's so tough out here. Have you always wanted to be
• 9:20
  independent and or is that something that has?
• 9:23
  Is that just the direction that your career has taken?
• 9:27
  I think because I do more than just music, I think independent
• 9:32
  suited what I was doing and where I wanted to go and where I
• 9:34
  still want to go. I mean, obviously, like, you
• 9:37
  know, you're young and you're like, I want to be signed.
• 9:40
  Like, I want the big label. Like, I want all the
• 9:42
  opportunities that come with it. But it's really interesting that
• 9:45
  you see now, like, more and more information coming out on people
• 9:49
  who have been signed to be like, it's not all it's cracked up to
• 9:52
  be. Like, you know, like you make
• 9:54
  even less money than there already is.
• 9:56
  Yeah, you might get one or two cool opportunities here, but
• 9:58
  they also have the ability to shelve you and be like, well,
• 10:01
  you can't release music for X amount of time.
• 10:04
  So I feel like with everything, like there's good and bad, like
• 10:08
  you have the accolades of being I'm with a huge label or you
• 10:12
  then have literally the independence to be like, Oh,
• 10:15
  well, I'm gonna go be on that TV show or I'm gonna go do all
• 10:18
  these other things. But you may not have necessarily
• 10:20
  been allowed. Yeah, there's that answered your
• 10:22
  question. No it.
• 10:23
  Did it Did, yeah. There's pros and cons.
• 10:24
  That's like in business too. I always go back and forth on if
• 10:27
  we should get an investor, if I should try and raise money or
• 10:30
  whatever. And you know, it, it's like, OK,
• 10:33
  do I want to give up a piece of my ownership for the potential
• 10:37
  of this growing and getting so much bigger?
• 10:39
  Or is it not worth that risk? Right.
• 10:42
  And and it can sound so like legitimate when you're like,
• 10:46
  yeah, I have an investor, we have VC or we raise this much
• 10:48
  money, whatever it is. But it's like, what does that
• 10:51
  even mean behind the scenes, you know, and you never know what's
• 10:53
  going on behind the scenes for people.
• 10:55
  OK. So a bit of a pivot now to some
• 10:57
  of the more personal topics I wanted to ask you about.
• 11:00
  Over the past few years, you have been open about going
• 11:02
  through a really difficult period in your personal life.
• 11:05
  Would you mind telling us a little bit about that?
• 11:07
  Yeah, of course. So I'm basically on a re
• 11:11
  emergence of my career after about a three-year not intended
• 11:16
  hiatus. It's basically my dad passed
• 11:18
  away really suddenly and it was 2 weeks before my wedding.
• 11:22
  And I'm so sorry. No, that's OK.
• 11:24
  Thank you. But with that whole, I guess
• 11:27
  time in my life, it wasn't just the fact like dad passed away,
• 11:31
  it was OK. He was kind of caring for my
• 11:34
  elderly grandparents. He was like the last surviving
• 11:36
  child as well. That's the whole thing.
• 11:38
  But anyway, so that kind of responsibility came on to me and
• 11:41
  there was crossover trying to get them into aged care.
• 11:44
  And, you know, so I was there literally physically caring for
• 11:46
  them every day, just trying to get them into a nursing home.
• 11:50
  My mom just wasn't really coping with becoming a widow.
• 11:54
  And she was in her own remission as well from being sick a few
• 11:57
  years before. And so there it was just like a
• 11:59
  whole big thing. And literally overnight just
• 12:02
  stepped back from my career and was like, OK, well, this is now
• 12:05
  my my life for right now. And yeah.
• 12:07
  And three years later, finally, like, they were in aged care.
• 12:10
  Mom's doing really well. And.
• 12:12
  Yeah. Wow.
• 12:13
  How did that experience impact your songwriting?
• 12:19
  I actually didn't pick up a guitar for 18 months.
• 12:21
  Like I didn't sing. I didn't, I couldn't listen to
• 12:24
  country music like because that's what dad and I did.
• 12:26
  Like Dad was my and I think also kind of going back as to why
• 12:30
  being independent suited me was because I had my dad like he was
• 12:33
  my music director. He was in his own super famous
• 12:36
  band back in South Africa, so I had him kind of guided me
• 12:39
  throughout my career as well. And I mean by no stretch of my
• 12:42
  neppo baby, but yeah, yeah, I wish.
• 12:46
  But so, yeah, music was our thing.
• 12:48
  And I honestly didn't think I'd ever go back.
• 12:50
  Like, I thought that was it for me.
• 12:52
  Like, it died with him and, you know, like, like, what's next
• 12:55
  for me? And, you know, like, I was
• 12:57
  literally only meant to be a wife.
• 12:59
  Yeah, Yeah. And then I became a carer.
• 13:01
  I became literally the parent to three adults.
• 13:04
  So yeah, it was a big shift. Being in the newlywed phase two,
• 13:08
  that must have been so hard. I'm so sorry.
• 13:09
  Well, it's funny, we actually only live together on like our
• 13:14
  two year wedding anniversary, we find because we just like
• 13:17
  literally dad passed away and we just moved in with mom that
• 13:20
  night. Like like because like he didn't
• 13:22
  pass away straight away. He was like in ICU for five
• 13:24
  days. And so we were staying with her
• 13:27
  throughout that time and we were kind of just like, well, we
• 13:29
  can't leave like that's. Yeah.
• 13:32
  Wow, OK, so then what brought you back to music if you really
• 13:35
  thought like this is not for me anymore?
• 13:39
  It was just so much I wanted to say my like medium of being able
• 13:42
  to speak is through song and through writing and kind of
• 13:46
  voice my opinions and voice the things happening in my life.
• 13:49
  And to be honest, like I also have a very, very loyal, I don't
• 13:54
  like to call them fans supported base.
• 13:55
  I have a very loyal, supportive base who stuck by me that whole
• 13:58
  time. And like the amount of chickens
• 14:00
  I would get because I just went ghost.
• 14:01
  Like I literally overnight. Like, yeah, I don't have time to
• 14:04
  think about social media when I'm like, you know, yeah, I'm
• 14:07
  changing my grandparents or something, you know, like it's
• 14:09
  just a lot going on. So I definitely had like a
• 14:11
  strong push and my songs would like trend on Facebook and stuff
• 14:15
  and like I had wasn't even posting.
• 14:17
  And yeah, so it was nice to kind of come back into that and be
• 14:20
  like, OK, like, OK, you stuck by me.
• 14:23
  So here's some here's some things for you.
• 14:25
  Oh, that's so sweet. So do you feel like you have a
• 14:27
  really close relationship with your audience?
• 14:29
  Yeah, because from the get go, like I would reply to every
• 14:34
  single comment, every single message from when I had one
• 14:37
  followers to now like over millions.
• 14:38
  Like it takes a long time. That's probably also I'm
• 14:41
  chronically online. Yeah, yeah.
• 14:43
  Like you, you can't do what you're doing without them.
• 14:45
  And I think some people, they don't necessarily like
• 14:49
  acknowledge that or give that the attention that it kind of
• 14:53
  deserves. So you just put out a new song,
• 14:56
  Girl, you'll be fine. Can you tell us about the
• 14:58
  process of writing that song even?
• 15:01
  Was this the your first song back into music?
• 15:04
  It is, yeah. So I actually wasn't planning to
• 15:06
  release this song. This was literally just.
• 15:09
  It was the first one I'd written coming back in like picking up
• 15:12
  my guitar because it was just like, had a little angst, had a
• 15:17
  lot of feelings underneath. So yeah.
• 15:20
  So it's it's out now. What do you hope your listeners
• 15:24
  get from the song? I just hope that they remember
• 15:28
  that we all bloom on our own timeline.
• 15:30
  And I think really, the message of the song is so where it kind
• 15:35
  of came from, where I wrote it was coming back into my career
• 15:38
  three years later and being like, OK, like, what's next?
• 15:42
  What am I gonna do? And like, really just taking,
• 15:44
  taking everything in to be like, OK, well, what is the landscape
• 15:48
  of the world right now? Like, I can't afford a house.
• 15:50
  I'm not ready for kids. Like I just turned 30 and I had
• 15:53
  like literally like a mini a mini crisis to be like, hey,
• 15:56
  well, like what's my life look like?
• 15:58
  And I really was just like no, like girl, you'll be fine.
• 16:00
  Like you've just gone through like touch wood.
• 16:03
  That's the only yes, you know, like like the hardest thing of
• 16:06
  your life and you know, you came out on the other side.
• 16:08
  So, you know, like you'll be fine.
• 16:11
  In our conversations before the episode, you shared that this
• 16:13
  song was partly born out of feeling behind, and you kind of
• 16:17
  just mentioned that as well. I'm sure a lot of our listeners
• 16:20
  can relate to that. Do you strive to create music
• 16:22
  that is relatable, or are you more so focused when you're
• 16:26
  writing music about sharing your own personal experience?
• 16:30
  I think more just my own experience because my like what
• 16:35
  I loved about music when I was younger and what made me want to
• 16:39
  write my own music and get it out there was I could, I just
• 16:42
  didn't feel alone. Like, you know, like I'd listen
• 16:44
  to these songs and, you know, either Miley or Taylor and be
• 16:47
  like, oh, well, you've gone through this.
• 16:48
  So I'm going through the same thing so I can get through it.
• 16:51
  So I think people will find what they need.
• 16:55
  Kind of what you said about Taylor earlier, like you just
• 16:57
  haven't found, you haven't needed her music yet.
• 16:59
  And I think, yeah, you find the things that you need and put
• 17:03
  your own, I guess, this thoughts and feelings into it.
• 17:06
  Yeah, your own spin on it, Yeah. Your own spin?
• 17:08
  Yeah. OK, let's switch gears to a bit
• 17:11
  of a lighter. Now that's.
• 17:12
  What it? Is so obviously country music
• 17:15
  has been more and more embraced by huge pop stars recently.
• 17:20
  How have you seen that impact the music that you're putting
• 17:24
  out and like your career in general, have you seen any
• 17:27
  impact from that? Oh yeah, I've seen an excellent
• 17:30
  impact. I think the audience of country
• 17:32
  has grown exponentially. I mean, you know, you've got
• 17:36
  Beyoncé, you've got Chapel, you've got Sabrina, everyone.
• 17:39
  I mean, I mean, Beyoncé did a whole country album.
• 17:42
  Yeah. Everyone's kind of like, you
• 17:44
  know, put putting the elements in and I think for me, country
• 17:47
  music is the songwriting and it's the storytelling within the
• 17:50
  song. So it's not necessarily like
• 17:53
  using a banjo or using traditional country elements,
• 17:56
  but I think it's really just broaden the audience and it's
• 17:59
  really given, you know, people like myself, like a, another
• 18:02
  platform of, well, another space actually for people to listen
• 18:06
  and find it. And yeah, but be more open to
• 18:09
  it. I I really think the biggest
• 18:12
  shift that I noticed anyway. And, but look, keep in mind,
• 18:14
  like I although I'm chronically online now, the last three
• 18:17
  years, like I've been in and out of being chronically online.
• 18:20
  So for me, the biggest commercial shift to country
• 18:24
  music was pretty much Beyoncé really.
• 18:27
  Like at least that's when I actually noticed like, oh, hang
• 18:29
  on a second, like why is like instead of People country
• 18:33
  covering something, why is just the main People magazine
• 18:36
  covering the country artist that wasn't Beyoncé?
• 18:38
  So for me, that's kind of how I've been able to see the shift
• 18:42
  of things and how it's become more mainstream.
• 18:45
  Can you tell us what's next for you?
• 18:46
  Like what do you hope for this next phase of your career?
• 18:50
  I just want to just keep going and just not stop.
• 18:53
  But to me that's it. Like that success for me is like
• 18:56
  I just don't hang up the guitar. So yeah, but new music, I've got
• 19:02
  a bunch recorder. It's been recorded in Nashville,
• 19:03
  which I'm so excited. I've never done before.
• 19:05
  It's always been either Australian or New Zealand what
• 19:08
  we've produced. But I'm doing yeah, the full
• 19:11
  Nashville production, which is cool.
• 19:13
  I'm actually in pre production for ATV show.
• 19:15
  So yeah, like I've got a lot. Of I'm.
• 19:18
  So excited. Excited for this next chapter
• 19:21
  for you. Thank you so much for joining us
• 19:24
  on Mini Scroll. Thank you.
• 19:25
  So much for having me. Oh my gosh, this has been like,
• 19:28
  I can't believe I'll get like an at mix official.
• 19:31
  Yeah, next is like Centennial World.
• 19:33
  So this is incredible. No, I love it.
• 19:35
  Thank you so much for D Ming me No.
• 19:37
  Thank you for responding and kids shoot your shot.
• 19:40
  Yes, shoot your shot and stream girl, you'll be.
• 19:43
  Fine. Thank you.
• 19:44
  Centennial World Podcast Network operates on Gadigal land.
• 19:48
  We would like to acknowledge the Gadigal of the Eora Nation, the
• 19:50
  traditional custodians of this land, and pay our respects to
• 19:54
  elders both past and present.