Latest / Wrongful Conviction / #270 Maggie Freleng with Karla Baday

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#270 Maggie Freleng with Karla Baday · Wrongful Conviction

0:00
Speaker 1: A note for listeners, this episode contains discussion of alleged
0:04
Speaker 1: child sexual abuse. Please alsome with caution and care.
0:09
Speaker 2: Hey, may hey, Jason, you know, I'm so glad you're
0:13
Speaker 2: focusing on women this season.
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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and so many of those women are in prison
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Speaker 3: for crimes that never.
0:19
Speaker 4: Happens, times that never even happened.
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Speaker 2: Crime.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think it's especially issues that women deal with,
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Speaker 3: you know, being persecuted for being gay or you know,
0:29
Speaker 3: being sex trafficked. But I think in these instances and
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Speaker 3: these wrongful convictions, especially with the no crime convictions, it
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Speaker 3: happens to women a lot.
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Speaker 4: They like you being arrested for sexual abuse. In Maria medinezquid,
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Speaker 4: I said, please find out the truth because I didn't
0:50
Speaker 4: do none of these things. Oh are you sure you should?
0:53
Speaker 4: I say yes, I am, Yes, I am. Can you
0:56
Speaker 4: please find out the truth.
1:01
Speaker 1: From Lava for Good? This is wrongful conviction with Maggie
1:04
Speaker 1: Freeling today Carlo Badet. In late January of two thousand
1:17
Speaker 1: and two, twenty four year old Carla Badet was invited
1:20
Speaker 1: to visit her ex girlfriend Maria Medina in Armona, in
1:24
Speaker 1: California's San Joaquin Valley. It was Maria's birthday, and Carla
1:28
Speaker 1: loved spending time with Maria's four young children, so she
1:31
Speaker 1: accepted the invitation. She stayed for a week or so
1:34
Speaker 1: and then went back home to Los Angeles. Shortly after
1:37
Speaker 1: arriving home, the police came and brought Carla in for questioning.
1:41
Speaker 1: Maria had called the police and said that Carla molested
1:44
Speaker 1: three of her children during the visit. Carla was in
1:48
Speaker 1: absolute shock, but knowing her relationship with the children, she
1:51
Speaker 1: believed the situation would resolve itself. But as an undocumented
1:55
Speaker 1: immigrant and a lesbian, Carla would have to navigate both
1:59
Speaker 1: the alli gations and prejudice against her identity. She didn't
2:04
Speaker 1: stand a chance. She was arrested and charged with multiple
2:07
Speaker 1: accounts of child sexual abuse. After only two days of
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Speaker 1: trial and deliberations, the jury convicted her. She was sentenced
2:15
Speaker 1: to forty five years to life. Who is Carla Bade?
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Speaker 4: Carla is just a happy spirit, That's what I am.
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Speaker 4: You know, a happy spirit in somebody who cares and
2:33
Speaker 4: loves people. And she just loved being alive and being me.
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Speaker 4: I'm Carla Baday from Honduras, forty four years.
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Speaker 5: Old and how long were you incarcerated seventeen years.
2:59
Speaker 1: Carla Badey was born in Honduras on June seventeenth, nineteen
3:02
Speaker 1: seventy seven, to Julio Francisco Salgado and Sonya Mariciella in
3:06
Speaker 1: a little town called Soyo. Carla grew up the fifth
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Speaker 1: of seven children. She was especially close with her youngest sibling.
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Speaker 2: My name is Joseba Day. I am Carla's little sister, Jisa.
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Speaker 1: Can you tell me what growing up in Honduras was
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Speaker 1: like with Carla?
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Speaker 2: Well, when I was in Honduras, I was ten or
3:29
Speaker 2: twelve years old when Carla leave my country, and I
3:32
Speaker 2: remember her. She was happy. She was as long as
3:36
Speaker 2: I remember. She was so caring about us, my nieces
3:44
Speaker 2: and nephews, they were babies, and you know, as a family,
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Speaker 2: I love her.
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Speaker 1: What do you remember? You know when she left? Because
3:57
Speaker 1: Carla left to go to the United States. I mean,
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Speaker 1: do you understand what was going on or why she
4:03
Speaker 1: was leaving at that time?
4:06
Speaker 2: Not at that time, I realized when I get older,
4:09
Speaker 2: oh my god, I'm about to cry. I know she
4:13
Speaker 2: lives because our country was her for her. I do
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Speaker 2: remember that she was fighting a lot with my mom
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Speaker 2: in Oh my goodness, I'm sorry.
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Speaker 1: Carla wasn't happy in Honduras.
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Speaker 4: When I was growing up, I knew that I was different,
4:48
Speaker 4: and I was like six seven years old, I knew
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Speaker 4: I was different. And then I started knowing that I
4:54
Speaker 4: didn't like boys because everybody was like, oh, you like
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Speaker 4: this boy? Do you like this boy? And I'm like, no,
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Speaker 4: I like the girl. You know.
5:03
Speaker 1: From a young age, Carla knew she was gay, but
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Speaker 1: in Honduras she couldn't be herself.
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Speaker 4: Being in that country, you cannot say too much about
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Speaker 4: your sexuality because it's just a Catholic, you know, and
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Speaker 4: they don't like gay people over there. You can get killed,
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Speaker 4: you can get rape, you can get do a lot
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Speaker 4: of things.
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Speaker 1: Carlo says, from the time she was fifteen to twenty
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Speaker 1: years old, she was harassed by local.
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Speaker 4: Gangs, the gangs from the town, and they were like, okay,
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Speaker 4: so you look like you're gay and stuff like that.
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Speaker 4: So they were trying to rape me and trying to
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Speaker 4: you know, abuse me or stuff like that and fight
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Speaker 4: me or whatever. So I decided to leave. That was
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Speaker 4: my time to leave, because if not, I would have
5:48
Speaker 4: got killed over there. So and I came to the
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Speaker 4: United States. When I was twenty years old.
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Speaker 1: In January nine, ten ninety nine, Carla left everything she
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Speaker 1: knew in Honduras to journey to the United States.
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Speaker 4: That was scary. I went. I went to the border
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Speaker 4: of Salvador, then from Estalbador to Watela Watermela in Mexico,
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Speaker 4: Mexico to the United States. So when I when I'm
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Speaker 4: crossing the border, it's a lot of things going on,
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Speaker 4: and that you you get assaulted by people in there
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Speaker 4: with the mascons. And I was like eight days without eating.
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Speaker 4: My feet were bleeding from walking so much out in shower.
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Speaker 4: I had even lies in my head, you know, and
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Speaker 4: it takes in my body because I was sleeping on
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Speaker 4: the barns. I was sleeping whatever I can sleep. At
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Speaker 4: one point, I was so tired that I was like,
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Speaker 4: what should I do? But you know, I don't want
6:52
Speaker 4: to go back because I knew what was going to happen.
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Speaker 4: So I keep pushing forward and saying, no, you got it,
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Speaker 4: you gotta do it, you gotta do it.
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Speaker 1: Carla ended up crossing through the desert with some food
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Speaker 1: and water, but very little. She became incredibly thirsty and
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Speaker 1: at some point she found a pot of dirty water
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Speaker 1: that cows used.
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Speaker 4: Would they do their their necessities? And I'm like, I'm
7:15
Speaker 4: going to have to drink this water. So that's what
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Speaker 4: I did. I went and got the water and I
7:20
Speaker 4: started drinking the water, even though it was gross, but
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Speaker 4: it was I feel like I was dehydrated, completely dehydrated
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Speaker 4: because it was it was hot.
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Speaker 1: Finally, Carla made it through the desert and into the
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Speaker 1: United States. She arrived in February of nineteen ninety nine,
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Speaker 1: and she felt safe from the dangers she faced in Honduras.
7:45
Speaker 1: As the year wore on, Carla settled into her new
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Speaker 1: life as an openly gay woman in the United States.
7:50
Speaker 1: She was looking forward to having a family and kids
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Speaker 1: and just a normal life. She started dating too. One night,
7:57
Speaker 1: she was in Harmona and went out to a bar
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Speaker 1: with a and there she met someone.
8:03
Speaker 4: I was used to go play pool because I like
8:04
Speaker 4: to play pool, and then I met Maria.
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Speaker 1: At first, Carla wasn't interested in pursuing anything with Maria,
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Speaker 1: but Maria was persistent.
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Speaker 4: Finally I got with her, you know, so it's like
8:16
Speaker 4: finally I said, okay, you know, it's like, let's do it.
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Speaker 4: So I started dating her and then we started dating
8:25
Speaker 4: and then moving with her. She was living in her
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Speaker 4: house with four kids, and so I moved in with her.
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Speaker 4: And you wanted kid, you wanted a family. I wanted
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Speaker 4: a family and she had kids.
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Speaker 5: So at first it was happy.
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Speaker 1: At first, yes, Carla and Maria enjoyed their time together
8:46
Speaker 1: for the first few months. Carla loved the four kids, Tony, Corina, Graciela,
8:52
Speaker 1: and Fabian. She loved being a mom to them. But
8:55
Speaker 1: things between her and Maria eventually started to change.
9:00
Speaker 4: And then everything became like an obsession or I don't
9:04
Speaker 4: know what it was, but it was like controlling, more controlling,
9:09
Speaker 4: and it's like she was not allowing me to talk
9:12
Speaker 4: to my family in the phone, because not everybody from
9:17
Speaker 4: my family was his. She's my brother. But I was
9:19
Speaker 4: calling Honduras. She was not allowing me to talk to
9:21
Speaker 4: my family. She was not allowed me to go to
9:24
Speaker 4: the store by myself. I had to go with one
9:28
Speaker 4: of her kids. And then she was questioning the kids
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Speaker 4: when I was coming back from the store, like if
9:33
Speaker 4: I talked to a girl, if I did this, and
9:36
Speaker 4: you know, and then and then she was threatening me
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Speaker 4: to call immigration if I did something to return me
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Speaker 4: back to my country.
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Speaker 1: Carla lived like this for months. After about a year
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Speaker 1: and a half, they broke up. At this point, Carla
9:50
Speaker 1: says Maria was a heavy methemphetamine user and many aspects
9:55
Speaker 1: of the relationship had become unbearable. By this time, Carla's
9:59
Speaker 1: mother had also moved to the US, which helped Carla
10:02
Speaker 1: to realize home wasn't necessarily with Maria.
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Speaker 4: So I left. I left from her house to my
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Speaker 4: mom's house, back to La.
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Speaker 1: Some time went by, then in late January of two
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Speaker 1: thousand and two, Maria invited Carla back to celebrate her birthday.
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Speaker 1: Carla was excited to see the children, who she cared
10:21
Speaker 1: for dearly, so she accepted the invitation. She stayed there
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Speaker 1: for a little over a week and then returned to La.
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Speaker 4: And then an afternoon, my mom was telling me Maria,
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Speaker 4: I been calling you, Maria being calling you. I said, okay,
10:33
Speaker 4: so I'll call you back. I said yes, he said,
10:36
Speaker 4: you abuse my kids. I said, excuse me, and she's
10:42
Speaker 4: like yes, I said, you should be calling the police.
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Speaker 4: You don't call me, you call the police.
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Speaker 1: And then Carla says Maria threatened her.
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Speaker 4: She said, if you're not with me, I will kill
10:54
Speaker 4: you or you will be in prison forever. That's what
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Speaker 4: the two thread that she gave me. And then so said, well,
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Speaker 4: you can do whatever, you know. I know I'm innocent
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Speaker 4: and you can do your part, you know. So later
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Speaker 4: that week she did she called the police and then
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Speaker 4: later that week two officers came to visit mea La.
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Speaker 1: The officers took her down to the station for questioning
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Speaker 1: under the allegations that she abused Maria's kids. They told
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Speaker 1: her the kids said that while Maria was at the
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Speaker 1: store with her eleven year old son Tony, Carla sexually
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Speaker 1: molested the other children, Carina, Graciela Fabian, who were seven, six,
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Speaker 1: and four at the time. The detectives who interviewed her
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Speaker 1: were Jeff Torres and Mark Lusk, but their questions were
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Speaker 1: not what you'd expect. The detectives asked more about Carla's
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Speaker 1: sex life with Maria than they did about her relationship
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Speaker 1: with the kids. She says. They asked her if she
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Speaker 1: and Maria used any sex toys and what kinds of
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Speaker 1: toys they were.
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Speaker 6: How did you feel when they were asking you about
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Speaker 6: your sex toys and your sex life.
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Speaker 4: It was very embarrassing, especially because they were all men.
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Speaker 4: It was I'm the only female in there, so they
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Speaker 4: were all men, and they were all laughing when they
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Speaker 4: were interrogating me in the room. It was like laughing
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Speaker 4: and she's talking among themselves in English. I didn't know
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Speaker 4: because the translator was not translated what they were saying.
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Speaker 1: Carla needed a translator present because at the time she
12:20
Speaker 1: didn't speak much English.
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Speaker 4: So they was just laughing about stuff, and I'm like
12:24
Speaker 4: looking at you know, So it was very embarrassing. They
12:27
Speaker 4: were so like eager to know things to how do
12:32
Speaker 4: you use it? And how many times? And what do
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Speaker 4: you guys did, and it's like it was just very uncomfortable.
12:42
Speaker 4: So they were telling me that I abuse kids and
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Speaker 4: the three kids and Maria and like that. And then
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Speaker 4: I was like, whoa, you know. I said, please find
12:51
Speaker 4: out the truth because I didn't do none of these things.
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Speaker 4: And then so, oh, are you sure? Are you should?
12:57
Speaker 4: I said yes, I am, Yes, I am. Can you
12:59
Speaker 4: please find out the truth? And then so they let
13:03
Speaker 4: me go.
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Speaker 1: From there, Carla left and went back to her mom's house.
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Speaker 1: About a month later, she says, Maria decided to visit
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Speaker 1: her in La. Despite her allegations against Carla, I was.
13:16
Speaker 4: Going to the store with Maria when police came all everywhere,
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Speaker 4: you know, and they like, they like, come my name,
13:24
Speaker 4: and then so so police and everybody was she's there,
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Speaker 4: you know, and I'm like okay. They're like, you're being
13:29
Speaker 4: arrested for sexual abusing Maria Medinez kids. I'm like okay.
13:35
Speaker 4: So she was there with me, and then they put
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Speaker 4: handcuffs on me and they put me in a police car.
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Speaker 1: On March twenty ninth, two thousand and two, Carla was
13:45
Speaker 1: read her Miranda rights and officially arrested and holding Custoday,
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Speaker 1: on May third, she was charged with multiple counts of
13:52
Speaker 1: child sexual abuse. Carla's little sister, Dulce, knows she didn't
13:58
Speaker 1: do this.
14:00
Speaker 2: I know she has a pure heart and she's not
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Speaker 2: capable of a horrible thing like that. She was caring
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Speaker 2: about us, about my nieces and nephews. I don't believe
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Speaker 2: that they cool think that my sister was capable of
14:18
Speaker 2: that horrible thing.
14:28
Speaker 1: This episode is underwritten by AIG, a leading global insurance company.
14:32
Speaker 1: AIG is committed to corporate social responsibility and to making
14:37
Speaker 1: a positive difference in the lives of its employees and
14:40
Speaker 1: in the communities where we work and live. In light
14:43
Speaker 1: of the compelling need for pro bono legal assistance, and
14:46
Speaker 1: in recognition of AIG's commitment to criminal and social justice reform,
14:51
Speaker 1: the AIG pro Bono Program provides free legal services and
14:56
Speaker 1: other support to underrepresented communities and individuals. Carla's trial started
15:05
Speaker 1: June twenty sixth, two thousand and two. The prosecutor was
15:08
Speaker 1: Anna Ferguson, who called nurse George Anne Greene to the stand.
15:12
Speaker 1: The nurse testified that when she examined the children, the
15:15
Speaker 1: medical evidence showed they were molested. By this point, Child
15:18
Speaker 1: Protective Services had taken all four of Maria's children from her.
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Speaker 1: They were now living with foster families. Only Cariina and
15:26
Speaker 1: Graciella testified during the trial, but their testimonies were largely
15:30
Speaker 1: inconsistent with each other and what they had previously reported.
15:34
Speaker 1: Carina said the day she and the other children were
15:36
Speaker 1: left alone with Carla, she saw Carla take off Fabian's
15:39
Speaker 1: clothes and touch his quote private. She also made a
15:42
Speaker 1: number of other even more serious allegations about Carla's actions,
15:46
Speaker 1: But when Graciella took the stand, the six year old
15:49
Speaker 1: said Carla didn't touch her and that she had never
15:52
Speaker 1: seen her touch the other children in a bad way.
15:57
Speaker 1: Jerry Holtgram was Carla's court appointed defense attorney. Although they
16:00
Speaker 1: have momentum after Graciella's eye opening testimony, he failed to
16:04
Speaker 1: cross examine her and other witnesses. He didn't even consult
16:08
Speaker 1: or present any experts in support of Carla or to
16:12
Speaker 1: refute the alleged medical evidence testified to you by nurse Green.
16:16
Speaker 1: Carla says he was a terrible attorney.
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Speaker 4: He was always telling me, I'm gonna go visit you
16:22
Speaker 4: to talk with you about the case. Never did not
16:26
Speaker 4: one time. The only time that he spoke with me
16:29
Speaker 4: was at the moment of my trial, five minutes prior
16:34
Speaker 4: to that, and he said, are you innocent? I said,
16:36
Speaker 4: one hundred percent. This is what he say. My wife
16:41
Speaker 4: is at the hospital, so my head is over there.
16:44
Speaker 4: That's what he said. When when he said he was
16:49
Speaker 4: his head was on his wife's hospital, not me, I
16:53
Speaker 4: was like, whoa you know.
16:56
Speaker 1: Holgren would eventually be disbarred for reasons unrelated to Carlos.
17:02
Speaker 1: Without a rigorous defense, Carla was unsurprisingly found guilty after
17:06
Speaker 1: only two days of trial. She was sentenced to forty
17:09
Speaker 1: five years to life.
17:12
Speaker 6: When you're in court and they sentence you, you are
17:17
Speaker 6: being sentenced not for being a murderer or a robber,
17:20
Speaker 6: for being a child molester.
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Speaker 4: Yes, what does that feel like? It was horrible. It
17:27
Speaker 4: was painful because I love the skits so much and
17:32
Speaker 4: I wanted to be a parent. And then she's thinking
17:36
Speaker 4: that you abuse somebody so innocent, and then they were
17:43
Speaker 4: saying that I did that.
17:52
Speaker 1: When she got to prison, Carla felt hopeless. She had
17:55
Speaker 1: escaped under US to come to the US to be
17:57
Speaker 1: free of persecution, only to be arrested for crime she
18:00
Speaker 1: maintains she did not commit.
18:05
Speaker 4: I was angry. I was angry not at the kids.
18:09
Speaker 4: I was angry at the law for not finding out
18:12
Speaker 4: the truth. So I was angry at the United States
18:18
Speaker 4: because they said, this is the United States, you know,
18:22
Speaker 4: And if I'm talking about Honduras, I will they can
18:26
Speaker 4: do whatever they want. But in the United States they
18:28
Speaker 4: find out the truth and they didn't.
18:33
Speaker 1: Her initial years in prison were bleak. Living in that
18:36
Speaker 1: environment was scary, and she still didn't speak any English,
18:40
Speaker 1: so she couldn't read any of her own documents to
18:42
Speaker 1: figure out how to help herself. By this time, Dulce
18:47
Speaker 1: had also made it to the US, and she was
18:49
Speaker 1: doing her best to try and help her sister out.
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Speaker 2: I tried to look for help. I tried to hire
18:57
Speaker 2: an attorney. But when I get here and I went
19:04
Speaker 2: to that first appointment with the attorney, they say I
19:08
Speaker 2: need fifty thousand dollars to start with the case. And
19:18
Speaker 2: that was super hard.
19:20
Speaker 1: What did you do when this attorney said fifty thousand dollars?
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Speaker 1: Did you think I can get that or did you think?
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Speaker 1: You know we're doomed?
19:30
Speaker 2: At that time, I couldn't do anything. I was new
19:33
Speaker 2: to the country. I didn't know about God fundments, I
19:36
Speaker 2: didn't know about anything. I just say, I cannot afford
19:41
Speaker 2: that amount of money. We work really hard, but we
19:48
Speaker 2: cannot afford fifty thousand dollars.
19:55
Speaker 1: But Carla knew one way she might be able to
19:57
Speaker 1: get help.
19:59
Speaker 6: Had you ever thought thought about wrongful convictions before those?
20:03
Speaker 5: Uh?
20:04
Speaker 4: No, never. So I learned that when I went when
20:07
Speaker 4: I got to prison, and then so I used to
20:10
Speaker 4: watch CSI and stuff like that, and the you know,
20:14
Speaker 4: the in Spanish, of course, and then I always heard
20:17
Speaker 4: about Innocent Project and you know, but I didn't think
20:20
Speaker 4: it was true.
20:22
Speaker 1: At the prison, Carla made a connection with the California
20:24
Speaker 1: Coalition for Women's Prisoners. She asked them to send her
20:27
Speaker 1: information on organizations that might help her.
20:30
Speaker 4: So they did. They sent me a full pack of
20:33
Speaker 4: a lot of innocence projects. You know, but at that moment,
20:37
Speaker 4: I don't speaking English, so I say that paper. I
20:41
Speaker 4: say the paper work until I learned English.
20:44
Speaker 1: Eventually, Carla settled in and her perseverance kept her moving
20:48
Speaker 1: forward even while in prison.
20:51
Speaker 4: I overcame every obstacle in there is. It was up
20:55
Speaker 4: to me, you know, and what I was in there.
20:59
Speaker 4: I didn't let the walls consume me. I allow myself
21:04
Speaker 4: to expand myself, and they're like, get into I am
21:09
Speaker 4: facilitated for domestic violence. I earned my high school diploma
21:14
Speaker 4: and my AAD degree in arts and humanities.
21:18
Speaker 1: She also found a purpose in offering friendship to other
21:21
Speaker 1: incarcerated women.
21:23
Speaker 4: So that was keeping me sane in there, seeing other
21:27
Speaker 4: people smiling, and she's talking to people, and then she's like,
21:32
Speaker 4: you know a lot of times I had a friend
21:34
Speaker 4: who said, did you know her? I don't need to
21:36
Speaker 4: know her, what about she's going through something. I'm just
21:38
Speaker 4: gonna say hi, good morning, how are you You can
21:41
Speaker 4: change somebody's life in that moment, you know. So that
21:43
Speaker 4: was my my thing, was changing somebody's life every day.
21:48
Speaker 1: Carla was doing okay enough in prison, but the rest
21:51
Speaker 1: of her family was broken without her.
21:54
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, it is hard for me thinking about
22:01
Speaker 2: my sister in that place, not being with us on Christmas,
22:08
Speaker 2: on my birthdays, we couldn't hug her with by that pass,
22:23
Speaker 2: and not sharing with her a lot of beautiful moments
22:26
Speaker 2: that we had when I had my first kid. It
22:33
Speaker 2: hurts my heart.
22:49
Speaker 1: Despite the distance from her family, Carla continued to strive,
22:53
Speaker 1: and that included learning English. With language as her tool,
22:56
Speaker 1: she was finally able to read the research documents on
22:59
Speaker 1: innocence PRIs she saved all those years ago, and when
23:02
Speaker 1: she did, she reached out to the Northern California Innocence Project.
23:07
Speaker 7: My name's Catherine Boyle and I'm a volunteer attorney with
23:10
Speaker 7: the Northern California Innocence Project.
23:13
Speaker 1: Catherine is one of the attorneys overseeing Carla's case at
23:16
Speaker 1: the NZIP, along with its co founder and executive director
23:20
Speaker 1: Linda Starr. Catherine says the first thing they did when
23:24
Speaker 1: they read Carla's letter was to try to obtain as
23:27
Speaker 1: much information about the case as they could, but unfortunately
23:31
Speaker 1: the only thing they could get was the trial transcripts.
23:34
Speaker 7: Even though there was not very much information that we
23:36
Speaker 7: had was that it looked like she had been wrongfully
23:40
Speaker 7: convicted and that there was bias against her based on
23:44
Speaker 7: her sexual orientation as well as her status as an
23:47
Speaker 7: undocumented immigrant.
23:50
Speaker 6: Can you elaborate on that a little bit? So, how
23:52
Speaker 6: was their bias against her in both of those ways?
23:55
Speaker 7: Yes, so the bias against her. It kind of pervaded
23:59
Speaker 7: the case in many different ways. One of the things
24:03
Speaker 7: that came out in the transcript was that both Carla's
24:07
Speaker 7: own attorney as well as the district attorney emphasized her
24:14
Speaker 7: status as a lesbian and the fact that she was
24:16
Speaker 7: in a lesbian relationship throughout the trial, even though it
24:20
Speaker 7: was totally irrelevant to the issues at hand. So that
24:25
Speaker 7: was one factor. There were also just assumptions about her
24:28
Speaker 7: based on her undocumented immigrant status, and one of the
24:32
Speaker 7: ways we found that out is as we were investigating
24:35
Speaker 7: her case, we did have an opportunity to talk to
24:39
Speaker 7: her attorney from the preliminary hearing, who at first did
24:44
Speaker 7: not remember her, but then when we jogged as memory
24:49
Speaker 7: by saying that she was from Honduras and speak Spanish,
24:52
Speaker 7: he very disparagingly said, oh, the little gay girl, and
24:57
Speaker 7: she wouldn't have been able to commit the crime hadn't
25:00
Speaker 7: been here illegally.
25:03
Speaker 1: Given the circumstances, the NCIP took Carla's case, believing in
25:07
Speaker 1: her innocence and botched trial.
25:09
Speaker 7: The younger daughter testified that Carla didn't touch her at all,
25:14
Speaker 7: and the older daughter testified inconsistently with what she had
25:18
Speaker 7: said at other times. And yet Carla's attorney did not
25:25
Speaker 7: pick up on any of that, nor did he cross
25:29
Speaker 7: examine the nurse expert or get an expert on behalf
25:34
Speaker 7: of Carla to testify that there was no basis in
25:38
Speaker 7: medical science for what the nurse was attesting to.
25:42
Speaker 6: Was there a reason why he didn't call his own experts.
25:45
Speaker 7: Gosh, we would love to know that. I don't know.
25:50
Speaker 7: I have to think part of it was the fact
25:53
Speaker 7: of there just seemed to be tunnel vision as to
25:56
Speaker 7: Carla's guilt throughout the process, and as I said, partially
26:00
Speaker 7: due to the fact of her status. I also have
26:06
Speaker 7: to say it probably had to do with some financial reasons.
26:10
Speaker 1: By this, Catherine is referring to how Little Carla's lawyer
26:14
Speaker 1: was earning from the state for defending her.
26:16
Speaker 7: It was a short two day trial. They get paid
26:19
Speaker 7: a flat fee, and so I think there was not
26:22
Speaker 7: much incentive for him to really investigate the case in
26:26
Speaker 7: the way it needed to be investigated.
26:29
Speaker 1: But the NCIP did their due diligence.
26:31
Speaker 7: So the only thing that we had to operate off
26:34
Speaker 7: of were the trial transcripts. So we actually sent the
26:38
Speaker 7: transcripts to one of the premier child sexual assault experts
26:44
Speaker 7: in the state of California, who is director at UCSF
26:48
Speaker 7: Benioff Hospital and one of only approximately two dozen boards
26:53
Speaker 7: certified child abuse pediatricians in California. He reviewed the transcripts
26:58
Speaker 7: and he said it looked like this was false testimony
27:02
Speaker 7: and that what the nurse was testifying to as evidence
27:05
Speaker 7: of abuse was in fact potentially normal human anatomy. So
27:12
Speaker 7: with that, and with some of the inconsistencies in the
27:16
Speaker 7: children's statements and testimonies, we were able to file a
27:20
Speaker 7: rid of habeas corpus based off of false medical evidence,
27:24
Speaker 7: new evidence, as well as ineffective assistance of counsel.
27:29
Speaker 1: After they filed their petition Carla's team was granted an
27:32
Speaker 1: opportunity to show cause, which means they were finally able
27:35
Speaker 1: to get all of the records in the.
27:37
Speaker 7: Case and find out really what happened in these medical exams.
27:43
Speaker 7: And with the medical records, we saw a box checked
27:47
Speaker 7: on the forms that said that there were videotapes.
27:51
Speaker 1: Which showed the physical examinations of the children's private parts.
27:55
Speaker 7: And so we were able to track down the videotapes
27:58
Speaker 7: of the children's exams and show those to our expert,
28:02
Speaker 7: who was able to say conclusively, this is normal human anatomy.
28:07
Speaker 7: She didn't know what she was.
28:08
Speaker 1: Talking about, meaning the nurse who had testified. After reviewing
28:12
Speaker 1: the tapes, Catherine and her team were granted and evidentiary
28:15
Speaker 1: hearing where they could present this information to a judge
28:18
Speaker 1: and make their case that Carla is actually innocent. But
28:22
Speaker 1: their plans went in another direction.
28:25
Speaker 7: So we never got to the evidentiary hearing. What happened
28:30
Speaker 7: was we were very close to the evidentiary hearing and
28:33
Speaker 7: everyone was ready, including our big team of law students
28:37
Speaker 7: and Linda Starr and me. We were all ready when
28:42
Speaker 7: a report came in from the DA's medical expert, who
28:47
Speaker 7: agreed with our expert that there was no evidence of
28:51
Speaker 7: sexual abuse. And then it was soon after that that
28:55
Speaker 7: they decided to stipulate to reverse Carla's conviction, which we.
29:00
Speaker 6: D So what was that like for all of you?
29:03
Speaker 7: Oh, it was so exciting, so exciting, I mean, just
29:07
Speaker 7: felt like such a victory. But it was only the
29:09
Speaker 7: beginning because they then insisted that they were going to
29:13
Speaker 7: retry Carla on the original charges.
29:16
Speaker 6: So my question is where were the children at this point?
29:19
Speaker 6: If they were going to retry they would have to
29:21
Speaker 6: testify again.
29:23
Speaker 7: Well, that's an interesting question. They were no longer in
29:26
Speaker 7: the state, and it seemed like they were not going
29:30
Speaker 7: to testify at trial based on a notice that the
29:33
Speaker 7: DA had served upon us. So basically because they no
29:37
Speaker 7: longer had the medical evidence, their case would have been
29:41
Speaker 7: the prior trial testimony of the children, which again one
29:45
Speaker 7: didn't testify, one said Carla didn't touch her, and the
29:49
Speaker 7: other testified inconsistently with some other reports of her statement.
29:59
Speaker 1: Carla's in a since was evident at this point and
30:01
Speaker 1: the state had an incredibly weak case, but they insisted
30:05
Speaker 1: on charging her with something, so they told her either
30:08
Speaker 1: accept a plea deal or face a retrial, and after
30:11
Speaker 1: seventeen years in prison, Carla just wanted to go home.
30:15
Speaker 1: She didn't plead guilty to any charges of child molestation
30:18
Speaker 1: or abuse, but to a charge called false imprisonment, which
30:21
Speaker 1: basically means holding someone against their will. Carla was not
30:25
Speaker 1: guilty of this, nor of child molestation, but she had
30:28
Speaker 1: no choice. She accepted the plea and was released from prison.
30:36
Speaker 2: I still remember that day when they told me Carla
30:42
Speaker 2: will be out. Oh my goodness, that was the best
30:47
Speaker 2: thing that I could ever ask. You know, I was,
30:57
Speaker 2: first of all thanking God because she was getting out.
31:02
Speaker 2: I was how can I say relieve that she was
31:07
Speaker 2: no longer in that place.
31:18
Speaker 1: But Carla's journey through the United States carceral system wasn't over.
31:23
Speaker 7: What would normally happen is there would be some processing
31:27
Speaker 7: and we were all waiting out in the hallway, and
31:30
Speaker 7: Carla should have been walking joyfully out to us. But
31:37
Speaker 7: as I mentioned before, Carla is an undocumented immigrant, and
31:42
Speaker 7: so what happened was, while we were waiting out in
31:45
Speaker 7: the hallway for Carla's release, Ice went in the back
31:48
Speaker 7: door and took Carla without telling us.
31:55
Speaker 1: Carla went straight from prison to the ote Mesa detention center.
31:59
Speaker 1: The NCIP team was devastated.
32:02
Speaker 7: We had clothes for her, We wanted to give her
32:04
Speaker 7: a hug. There was no chance to celebrate any of
32:08
Speaker 7: the excitement of Carla being released after all that time.
32:17
Speaker 1: Carla spent about a month in iced attention before she
32:20
Speaker 1: was released and finally free.
32:23
Speaker 4: It was up and down. I was happy, I was sad,
32:25
Speaker 4: I was happy, I was sad. It was like a
32:27
Speaker 4: roller coaster for me.
32:34
Speaker 1: Carla currently has a lawsuit pending against the numerous parties
32:37
Speaker 1: whose misconduct led to her wrongful conviction. Among other things,
32:41
Speaker 1: the lawsuit alleges that the medical evidence against her was
32:44
Speaker 1: fabricated and condoned by county officials. These days, Carla works
32:50
Speaker 1: as a landscaper.
32:52
Speaker 4: It's good because I go beside with the nature and
32:57
Speaker 4: it's not too many people. Because I cannot be around
32:59
Speaker 4: too many people. I'm still battling with my struggles coming
33:04
Speaker 4: out because when I can, I sleep, put the lights off,
33:10
Speaker 4: or I have to check the doors to be locked,
33:12
Speaker 4: because you have to make sure that nobody's going to
33:14
Speaker 4: beat you up in prison.
33:16
Speaker 1: Considering the trauma she experienced from being in prison as
33:19
Speaker 1: well as from her journey to the US. I asked
33:22
Speaker 1: her about therapy.
33:24
Speaker 4: Yes, I have therapies every Wednesday. It's pretty good. So
33:29
Speaker 4: Erica that's her name's she worked with the exonerated people before,
33:33
Speaker 4: so so she's pretty good.
33:35
Speaker 6: So your your spirit is still intact.
33:37
Speaker 3: You're smiling.
33:38
Speaker 5: Yes.
33:39
Speaker 4: And then I have wonderful nieces and nephews. They drive
33:42
Speaker 4: me nuts. You know. It's like they said, I have
33:44
Speaker 4: my baby. They said she's my daughter, because you know,
33:47
Speaker 4: she's a little bit like me. So so I go
33:51
Speaker 4: visit her and then sometimes I take her to the
33:53
Speaker 4: house and stay with us, you know.
33:55
Speaker 1: So in addition to the nieces and nephews around her,
33:58
Speaker 1: Carla has a new loving partner, Blanca.
34:02
Speaker 4: I have a beautiful family. She has a daughter.
34:04
Speaker 6: I was gonna ask, so you have the family you
34:07
Speaker 6: always wants.
34:07
Speaker 4: Yes, yes, yes, yes I do.
34:11
Speaker 1: Carla is still afraid to return to Honduras and has
34:14
Speaker 1: applied for asylum.
34:15
Speaker 5: In the US.
34:19
Speaker 1: If you'd like to help support the work of the
34:20
Speaker 1: Northern California Innocents Project, go to NCIP dot org slash
34:25
Speaker 1: get dash involved. Carla would especially like to thank Jim
34:29
Speaker 1: Montenaro for his generosity. Next time on Wrongful Conviction with
34:35
Speaker 1: Maggie Freeling Alicia Burns.
34:38
Speaker 8: You know, there were lots of things on TV about
34:41
Speaker 8: human trafficking and sex trafficking and what it looks like,
34:45
Speaker 8: and there was more awareness about it, and I thought, oh,
34:49
Speaker 8: my gosh, that's what happens to me.
34:57
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction with Maggie Freeling.
35:00
Speaker 1: Please support your local innocence organizations and go to the
35:03
Speaker 1: links in our bio to see how you can help.
35:06
Speaker 1: I'd like to thank our executive producers Jason Flahm and
35:09
Speaker 1: Kevin Wurtis, as well as our senior producer Annie Chelsea,
35:12
Speaker 1: researcher Lila Robinson, story editor Sonia Paul, with additional production
35:17
Speaker 1: by Jeff Cleiburn and Connor Hall. The music in this
35:21
Speaker 1: production is by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph.
35:25
Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us on Instagram at Wrongful Conviction,
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Speaker 1: on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on Twitter at
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Speaker 1: Wrongful Conviction, as well as at Lava for Good. On
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35:42
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