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From Special Ed to Social Media: Grill Guy x Kevin Spies on Parenting, Purpose & Inclusion · Inchstones with Sarah | Autism Advocacy & Caregiver Stories

• 0:01
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Inchtones podcast. Today I have a friend that was brought into my life through someone who leads an exactly parallel life to me. And this is Kevin Spies, AKA Grill Guy, dear friend of mine and my family's, but also crushing it as someone who has taken life by the reins, pivoted and made something of this one precious trip that we are on. Kevin, thanks for being here.
• 0:27
  Speaker B: Thank you. I like to say I take life by the ball.
• 0:29
  Speaker A: Yeah, by the one ball. By the one ball.
• 0:32
  Speaker B: I'm a unib baller.
• 0:33
  Speaker A: Got you prep for this, Kev.
• 0:35
  Speaker B: Yes. Thank you so much for having me on. It is funny. My wife and you have literally lived parallel lives. It's too many things to name.
• 0:43
  Speaker A: Keep going. And now we just keep going. Yep.
• 0:46
  Speaker B: Yeah. Like, you had. You had. You have mom mommy wrist. Which my wife, I literally just got.
• 0:51
  Speaker A: When I looked, when I Google searched on our town's mom board on Facebook, because that's how you find things. I Googled carpal tunnel, mommy risk recommendations. Now there's how many moms in these towns that we live in. And Erin. Erin's name, her post popped up, and I was like, this. You can't. I should. I should have known. I should have known you had the same thing. We are in local towns together. We have, you know, raising children. Talk to me about how your life as Kevin Spees began.
• 1:25
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, the origin story is, you know, I was born in Chicagoland area, raised in New Jersey. Basically split my childhood. You know, bartended through college, got myself through college. Took me a few years. Took me seven years to get through. I was 25 when I finally got my degree. I knew I always wanted to be a teacher. That was always the goal. And basketball coach. Basketball has always been a big part of my life. And so, you know, after years of not knowing if it was gonna happen, I mean, you're a kid, you're like, why the am I going to school? You know, can I curse or no?
• 1:57
  Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes. And you know why I say that? Because if someone told me that Millie just said fuck appropriately at school, I'd be like, hallelujah.
• 2:08
  Speaker B: Thank God. Yeah, that's a good thing.
• 2:09
  Speaker A: Like, that's awesome. Yeah.
• 2:13
  Speaker B: So. So eventually get a job teaching and coaching in New York City in Brooklyn. I was a special education teacher again, where our lives are somewhat parallel in a situation. I taught special education for, like, nine years in New York City, and then kind of.
• 2:28
  Speaker A: It's a big chapter. Nine years in special education is not nothing.
• 2:32
  Speaker B: No. And I thought that's what I was going to do forever. Like, and I would have been happy doing that. And like, there are still times where I am like, I want to go back to teaching. And now it's like, I don't even know if that would be possible, to be honest, because it's like just a weird life that I found myself in. Yeah, but. Yeah, but stumbled into like, content creating, which a lot of us do. Like, I don't think a lot. A lot of us weren't planning on becoming content creators. And then we just like, realized this is something we could do for a living. And, you know, becoming a father really fully changed me as it does everybody who has kids, I believe. And my priorities were no long, like, I no longer needed to get fulfillment from my job. I got fulfillment kids.
• 3:18
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 3:19
  Speaker B: And that's like, all that mattered to me. And so this job provides a. The current job and now provides the opportunity for me to spend the most amount of time with my kids as. While still having a job. So.
• 3:33
  Speaker A: Well, that's like the coolest part about being an entrepreneur in whatever space you're in. You know, ours couldn't be more different. I mean, the overlap of your experience in special ed obviously binds us as humans. You know, what is it specifically that you feel like you've translated from that time till now? Because it's obviously a completely different role. But I think your attention, I would say you pay attention. And I think as a special educator, you have to pay attention.
• 4:05
  Speaker B: Yeah, I think. Well, I think at the cornerstone of like, who I am, someone who believes in building community, and I'm kind of doing that. I did that as a teacher, as a coach. It's a central part of the job. As a coach, teacher, and as like a content creator, you're building like a following. It's a, it's a community community. And at the cornerstone of that is inclusion. Like, that's just something that I believe in in my life. Just like at the core of who I am is inclusion and diversity. That's something that gets thrown around a lot, obviously, but, like, it's something that's really important to me. I grew up around a lot of different people and I just truly, truly believe in just the inclusion and, you know, all that comes with that. So, yeah, like my, my community now, I try to make it a place where like, everybody can just come get hopefully a laugh. Like, I'm not going to do political stuff. I'm like, I. I'm a politically charged person, but, like, I don't my page to Be that. Because that alienates half of the people that would come to my page. I want, like, people to scroll by, see grill guy pop up, get a quick laugh, and then their day moving. And if I can do that, that's, like, awesome. What a cool gift.
• 5:22
  Speaker A: It's points of reflection. You provide points of reflection and pause. You know, the weeds and in Jones popped up to me years ago, and parenting Mac and Millie, they. They forced me to take pause. And in that way, what you're doing and what I hope I'm doing as well is want everyone to take pause and go. Yeah, it can be seen that way because you're creating comedy in that way.
• 5:41
  Speaker B: Oh, yeah. And I think, like, also, the Internet just provides people with a whole nother, a broader scope of what happens in the world. Because before the Internet, you only knew what you saw. And so, so many people weren't exposed to different types of people, even neurodivergent people. And now the Internet, like, provides that for people. People can kind of, in a way, experience that.
• 6:05
  Speaker A: It's the best. It's the best. You know, we get such a bad rap. Social media gets such a negative connotation to it. I completely reject that there is such. For as many trolls or naysayers are out there, 99% of the people out there are really looking for connectivity.
• 6:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, 99% of the comments you get are great.
• 6:24
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 6:25
  Speaker B: It's a reflection of human nature. It's like the ones that hurt stick out more. Ones that are great.
• 6:33
  Speaker A: Their pain has to go somewhere. I always say their pain on what their life is like has to go somewhere.
• 6:39
  Speaker B: Yes. And the Internet. The Internet provides that. It's like they say in football, football builds character. It's like. No, football reveals character for young. Right. And it's like the Internet. The Internet reveals character. That's all it does.
• 6:52
  Speaker A: So what would be some of your favorite lessons from your special education days in terms of the kids that you're working with? Because I've been blessed to see you and your family interact with mine. And it takes conscious curation, more of moments whenever you have children like mine who don't act socially as responsive. But what do you think are some of the best lessons that you've learned that have now translated from those high schoolers that you worked with?
• 7:18
  Speaker B: I was high schoolers. And like, full disclosure. Yeah, full disclosure. Like, we did have a lot of kids that were neurodivergent. A lot of the kids that have IEPs have misdiagnosed IEPs.
• 7:31
  Speaker A: 100%. Yeah.
• 7:33
  Speaker B: And it's a lot of like. I think the biggest lesson revealed to me was how different people get treated with difficulties in a classroom.
• 7:42
  Speaker A: Totally.
• 7:44
  Speaker B: Black boys are fully overrepresented in special education compared to their other student counterparts. And a lot of times what you see in like special education is like maybe there's difficult classroom. And the response at a young age is put them in a, you know, self contained. Self contained. Because they have behavior issues, self slap an IEP on them and they're, you know, they have a learning disability. And a lot of times it's, it's not always the case. A lot of times it's like environmental or whatever.
• 8:21
  Speaker A: It's so complex.
• 8:22
  Speaker B: Boys in general get, get kind of grouped in that quicker than other.
• 8:28
  Speaker A: Well, they, they, you know, they show these signs of hyperactivity. I mean if you saw Mac, I mean his IEP looks so vastly different than Millie's. And they have the exact same two diagnoses.
• 8:39
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 8:40
  Speaker A: Because he needs to be run around like a frickin sled dog to get his energy. I always say I'm like, put him literally when he gets to school. I'm like, just take him to the gym.
• 8:49
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 8:49
  Speaker A: I found out that my friend who sends their kids to this private school in the Upper east side. This is for private, this is high paying, you know, well to do New York couple, three boys, all this private school. Guess what they do for their, for their typical contingency of boys at a private school in very east side. They, they'd make them run a mile before school and after school.
• 9:08
  Speaker B: Yeah, just make them go. Right.
• 9:10
  Speaker A: Like it's just like on some primal level, you gotta even remove the, the diagnosis or whatever their IEP says and just be like, if a boy's a. Generally speaking, these boys need to get their energy out.
• 9:20
  Speaker B: Like, I mean my boys are like literally.
• 9:22
  Speaker A: Exactly.
• 9:23
  Speaker B: You can't. If my son is, if Quincy is in the house for too long, it's feral. Well, yeah, yeah. He has a hard time. It's like get him outdoors, running a little bit, it makes a big difference.
• 9:35
  Speaker A: Even the smallest bit. And that's, that's what I've really tried to encourage alongside my mission of having special needs parents engage. Choosing to interact with the world and not isolate. There's such a fear around that. But I think even taking me two years to get Millie to walk the dog around the block.
• 9:52
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 9:52
  Speaker A: And she does it so begrudgingly with this like scowl on her face. But even that one trip around the block helps her.
• 9:59
  Speaker B: Yeah. You Know, you're just outside.
• 10:01
  Speaker A: It's just outside that, that fresh New Jersey air that we have.
• 10:05
  Speaker B: Yes. And school in general, I think does a. Does the kids injustice. I mean, high school kids should have recess.
• 10:12
  Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
• 10:14
  Speaker B: Messing around, like doing something outdoors, it does help. And that's also why I think, like, sports are so important for, for all students, not just boys, girls as well.
• 10:23
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:24
  Speaker B: Not only can you learn so much, like, there are so many lessons to be taught that you can't teach in a classroom setting. You can't teach on a sport field or court.
• 10:35
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 10:36
  Speaker B: And like, I just think it's really awesome. I had a, A manager. We called him kg. His name's Kenny. He was, he had down syndrome. And his last two years of high school, he was like our team manager. And what an incredible experience for my team to have someone that they build relationships with. That's like giving pregame speeches and jazz enough to get on the bench at games. And it's like. But also what a great experience for Kenny too, who, who now gets.
• 11:05
  Speaker A: You gave him purpose. Yeah.
• 11:06
  Speaker B: He has this whole other world at school outside of the classroom.
• 11:10
  Speaker A: Yes.
• 11:11
  Speaker B: And so let alone all the interpersonal relationships that get built and all of those things, it's just. It's a totally different experience.
• 11:19
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 11:20
  Speaker B: Yeah. And it's like, you know, especially for neurodivergent kids, there's probably way less opportunities for things like that than, you know, there is.
• 11:28
  Speaker A: You know, there are. I mean, it's growing, I'll tell you that. And I know we live in an area where there's endless, you know, enrichment opportunities for kids, whether they're typical neurodivergent, you know, we're really lucky. And at the same time, you do have to find what you're. What that child gravitates to as well. You know, I, both Mac and Millie, but specifically Millie, have just loved swimming. I mean, the water just provides such a stabilizing sensory neutral experience for her. I mean, it is like pulling a hundred pound weight out of the, out of the pool every twice a week because she just wants to stay. And I think to myself, if this, this is the year the local JCC has a woman that runs a Special Olympics team locally. And I, if I gotta get her to the point where she doesn't touch the lane rope, but if she can learn to just swim the one length without touching the lane rope, she can do the Special Olympics. And you know, I don't think.
• 12:21
  Speaker B: Yeah, it's so, it's so funny that you said. Cause it's like, you know, forget that, like, every kid has a different interest in, like, what they're doing. Like, you know what? What I love doing is not what my son's gonna love doing.
• 12:36
  Speaker A: Exactly. And, like, that can be really crushing. It's not the child that you ever would foresee being yours. Right. And it's the. And it's the greatest gift of a lifetime is that, like, you are meant to parent to that child, not parent the child you want. Yeah, right. I mean, my oldest, like, Morgan, almost 12. It's like the plight of the Westfield tween like you would think. I mean, asking her to empty the dishwasher every day is like Kilimanjaro. She's like, I did this yesterday. Yeah, yeah, I know.
• 13:12
  Speaker B: But you know what? Like, I always say, you're winning because you're still snapping selfies with your kid, like, doing cool stuff.
• 13:18
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's all her fault now. Now I can't post those, and she's going to be so pissed off at what's in the back of the Christmas card. So I'm like, racing for impact.
• 13:28
  Speaker B: You just gotta take it on the chin like it is what it is.
• 13:30
  Speaker A: I know, I know. I'm gonna send her over to Lynn with you, and you guys can talk to me later.
• 13:35
  Speaker B: That's great.
• 13:36
  Speaker A: So, okay. So after. After nine years, New York City bartending, you met Aaron, my life twin, and you transitioned into a totally different market. Everything.
• 13:49
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Totally different. Yeah. Like, it's funny because you. You make a choice when you become, like, an educator that, like, you're not going to make money. It's just.
• 13:58
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. My dad's an educator. He would. He would validate that there's always things you can do.
• 14:03
  Speaker B: Like, I bartended, you know? Yeah.
• 14:04
  Speaker A: You were hustling for.
• 14:06
  Speaker B: From October to March when it was basketball season for the entire time. You know, on Sundays, there's practice on Saturdays or games on Saturdays. Monday through Friday, 6 in the morning or 6:30 in the morning till 7 at night. You know, it's a crazy schedule. And you can. If you do extra things like bartend, you can make enough to have a comfortable, ish lifestyle. It's hard in New York City. Obviously you can find ways to do it.
• 14:30
  Speaker A: Yep.
• 14:31
  Speaker B: But you're never gonna. You're never. You just kind of let the whole I'm gonna be rich thing go. You know, it's like, then you get into a situation where you're like, I could maybe. I could make a little money here. It's never something I'd thought about and it's just like. But I'm still not ne. I'm not motivated by, like, by financial. No, I'm not. And so when I was toying with going into this, like, field full time and kind of really giving up education, it was like I was talking with kind of like the guy who's kind of my mentor who brought me into the. To this world, so to speak. And I'm like, you know, if I can. If I can somehow parlay this new career into a situation where I could buy a beach house and my kids will hang out with me for like five more years, then I'll do like at 12. At 12, they're not going to want to, like 12. They're not going to hang out with me anymore. But if you have a cool place where their friends can come, it's like 12 to 17, 18. You're going to get a few more.
• 15:33
  Speaker A: Of a higher end cheese on that, like, mouse. That mouse trap. Right. You're like, well, I do have this to offer you. Yeah.
• 15:42
  Speaker B: Obviously that's always been like a dream, but yeah.
• 15:45
  Speaker A: I have to press pause, though. You also have a very wonderful, supportive.
• 15:49
  Speaker B: Partner who's very successful as well. Yes.
• 15:51
  Speaker A: And I think that that's not to take away from your talent at all. But I talk about this a lot, is that having that cheerleader is imperative.
• 16:03
  Speaker B: The truth is, I never, ever, ever would have gotten into this if it weren't for Aaron, ever. I never would have done it because I. You can't take a. You can't take a risk like that if you don't have a support system or like a backup plan. Aside from the just support of like, I like that you're doing this. Like, this is a new life. But, like, do it, do it, do it. Aside from that, which is a really important thing, that is what, like, allows me to do what I do. Aside from that, logically, I could have just never gotten into it. I could have never taken the leap because it's like you risk, you know, you blow up on the Internet. You can't walk in to teach. It's like, especially when you're making, like.
• 16:48
  Speaker A: You can't press the reverse button on that.
• 16:49
  Speaker B: You can't. And so it's like I was only able to do that because of the support of my wife and like the safety of my wife being a career woman and the fact that we would be okay. And I, you know, I always have this, like, well, I'll just go bartend Thing. Like, I. And I just have done that for years. Like, me and Aaron were still together. She's like, you're done bartending? And then things got tough, like a couple months. Like, I'm going to go back to bartending. It's like I just always have that, you know? But you. Yeah, you're. I would never have been able to make the leap, and I never would have even thought to make the leap. And it was really Aaron who was like, you need to do this. Yeah. Yeah. And then, like, you know, it is kind of cool to see, like, my wife experience it a little bit too.
• 17:35
  Speaker A: Totally. I love. I love seeing that too.
• 17:37
  Speaker B: The other day we were. We were out at, like, at Sterling Hotel.
• 17:40
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 17:42
  Speaker B: Someone went up to Aaron and said, you're the. You're. And she got recognized. She's like, me. Like, you're looking for that over there. But it's. It's just so funny, you know? And then she created, like, an account that just trolls my. Like, anytime I make something that's like, she just trolls me. And it's like, it's good. That's how we are in life too. We're just. We're.
• 18:10
  Speaker A: How do you feel your day to day, like, choosing to do this, be a content creator, you know, how do you stay motivated for those little things? What makes Kevin feel really proud of Kevin?
• 18:21
  Speaker B: My truest satisfaction comes from speaking of, like, inch stones or small wins are little things that remind my wife and I that, like, we have a household that is just a. There's a lot of. This sounds corny, but it's true. There's a lot of love in our house. Like, we don't speak to each other. Any of our family members speak to each other in a way that's not from, like, love. And I think that's a lot of us growing up in the 80s and 90s didn't have households like that. We had households. A lot of stress, anger, and people weren't always nice to each other. And that's not what happens in. In our household. Obviously we're human. And obviously people get pissed off. And obviously people say things they don't mean. All of that happens. We don't live in a fairy tale land. There are things where, you know, just like small things where my kid feels, like, safe enough to, like, go crazy in the basement and have much fun. And then like, I love you, dad. And it's like, you know, they seem like every kid does that. And it's like, well, not every kid does that.
• 19:27
  Speaker A: No. And I think modeling, I mean this and it like is probably the overarching theme of like my motherhood is that like I can tell my children and you know, then you have like neurodiverse children who have a receptive language that's really high, but their expressive is not. But it comes down to modeling. Like I can, I could literally talk and give soliloquies to my oldest like four times a day. Modeling, beginning again, taking chances, risking things, showing up for yourself. Like, I can't say that to Morgan and have it resonate. I have to just live it.
• 20:01
  Speaker B: No. And like you get, I'll give you an example of like a small thing that is a huge win is we started a new preschool and we had our first like parent teacher conference. And by the way, Goddard is where we're at and we just love, absolutely love it. Like it's really, really an incredible place. And both the teacher and like the school leader made comments about how sweet our son is. And she said, you know, that's not, that's something that kids learn. Learn from parents actions, not from what parents say. And so it's like kids are, are especially that young, direct reflections of their parents. It's like a parent could like you say, a parent can tell you speak nice to people. Speak nice to people. But if they want being mean to each other all day long and speaking.
• 20:52
  Speaker A: Yeah.
• 20:53
  Speaker B: And like bad tones, that's going to show in the classroom. And the opposite is true also if they see their parents speaking nice to each other and being empathetic kids, kids need to learn empathy. They need to learn what that is like and have it modeled. And so like when my son grabs my other son and is like, I love you, Charlie.
• 21:13
  Speaker A: Yeah. So damn sweet.
• 21:15
  Speaker B: He sees us doing that and that's exactly, you know, and it's like he.
• 21:18
  Speaker A: Does it because that's what he, he's like, okay, I'm watching mom and dad do this. I mean, I, you know, I get to see your boys do that. And it's a reflection of you guys. I, I'm, I guess I'm sometimes surprised that it continues even into the tween years with Morgan. I was with some friend and they're toddlers and I heard Morgan's voice talking to these toddlers and I'm like, that's what I sound like.
• 21:40
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 21:41
  Speaker A: Hey, sweet girl. Like, how are you? Oh my gosh, tell me about school. And I'm like, wait a second.
• 21:46
  Speaker B: It's about who they are when you're not there.
• 21:50
  Speaker A: Yeah, I know.
• 21:51
  Speaker B: It's really about. So it is hard to give ourselves, like, pats on the back sometimes as parents, but it's like those small things, to me, are the biggest.
• 21:59
  Speaker A: And, like, luxuries you cannot purchase. You cannot purchase that.
• 22:03
  Speaker B: And I learned those things from my father and my mother, too. You know, it's like you get to pass down these lessons and these life experiences. Yeah, those are the most important things, like, to me. And, you know, as someone who has faced mortality, like, as weird as that is to sound, every little moment is just super important.
• 22:26
  Speaker A: Okay. I love how you live. I love how you parent. I love your family to death. What is one thing that you can just share as someone who has been around children like mine and you've educated, you know, children with a variety of special needs? What's one thing that you can just share as a motivating point for moms and fathers that might listen to your story but also want to maybe hang their hat on one thing?
• 22:49
  Speaker B: Yeah. Well, before that, kudos to you for this whole thing. This is, like, it's been really awesome watching the journey from, you know, a couple of years ago to where you are now. And you really are doing, like, the world's most important work. So.
• 23:03
  Speaker A: Thanks, Kev.
• 23:04
  Speaker B: Cheers to you for that. I think the overarching thing for me is, like, every kid, no matter who they are or what their difficulties may be, every kid needs the same thing. And that's like feeling a part of something, being loved, being supported. And so as a community, there's a million ways you can do that with not only your own kids, but, like, maybe the kids that your kids interact with or, you know, at a park or wherever. I think the world is getting better at, like, inclusion, but it's like, it's really not much, and it doesn't take much to make feel included or feel a part of something or feel loved and supported and feel wanted. I think for a long time, there were a lot of kids that didn't feel wanted in a lot of different spaces. And so I think what you're doing is changing the thought process behind that.
• 24:00
  Speaker A: They're allowed to be there. I always say this. Millie and Mac are allowed to be in places that might have previously been thought of as, like. Well, that's just for. That's reserved for children that can xyz.
• 24:13
  Speaker B: Yeah.
• 24:14
  Speaker A: No, they're. They're allowed to, too.
• 24:16
  Speaker B: Not only allowed to, but, like, I think it's our job as a community to make everybody feel that they're wanted there.
• 24:21
  Speaker A: Yeah. That when they walk in, people are happy to see them. Right. Everyone wants that.
• 24:28
  Speaker B: That's part being a human, so.
• 24:29
  Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you again. What you do, too, and how you lead with such authenticity. You've created a world that people love coming to. You inspired me to do the same. So thanks for your time, Kev.
• 24:41
  Speaker B: Thank you. More fart jokes.
• 24:42
  Speaker A: More fart jokes. Always. I mean, come over to my house. We got a lot of those. All right, until next time on the Inch Stones podcast.