Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / EPSTEIN VICTIM VIRGINIA GIUFFRE DEAD: 4TH 'SUICIDE' IN SEX RING OF RICH & POWERFUL

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EPSTEIN VICTIM VIRGINIA GIUFFRE DEAD: 4TH 'SUICIDE' IN SEX RING OF RICH & POWERFUL · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Epstein's sex assault victim, Virginia
0:09
Speaker 1: Geffrey is dead, the fourth fourth suicide connected to a
0:18
Speaker 1: sex ring of the rich and powerful. This as the
0:23
Speaker 1: FEDS are set to release damning files, pointing the finger
0:28
Speaker 1: at who darn and now Giffrey won't get to be
0:33
Speaker 1: a witness? What a kwinki dink? I mean? What are
0:38
Speaker 1: the Vegas odds that four people connected to the Epstein
0:47
Speaker 1: sex ring child sex ring die of suicide? What are
0:56
Speaker 1: the Vegas odds? I'm Nancy Grace, this is christ I
1:00
Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us.
1:02
Speaker 2: Virginia Jeffree is a sixteen year old locker room attendant
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Speaker 2: in mar A Lago when she is approached by socialite
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Speaker 2: Gallaine Maxwell to work as a traveling messuse for her associate,
1:11
Speaker 2: American financer Jeffrey Epstein, over the promise of a two.
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Speaker 1: Hundred dollars rate permissage.
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Speaker 2: Virginia eagerly accepts per massage.
1:21
Speaker 1: My rear end. This was just a little girl, like
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Speaker 1: so many of the other little girls that were lured
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Speaker 1: in by Epstein, whom many insists did not commit suicide
1:33
Speaker 1: behind bars. Lured in by Epstein and his hitch person
1:40
Speaker 1: bills above from Hell Jelaine Maxwell. Now she at this
1:46
Speaker 1: moment is trying to seek a presidential pardon. She was
1:50
Speaker 1: convicted for her role in this. Wow, do you think
1:54
Speaker 1: Virginia's testimony could have thrown a wrench in that presidential pardon?
2:00
Speaker 1: Think about it? Joining me an all star panel. But
2:04
Speaker 1: first to Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mac. Dave Mac,
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Speaker 1: are you telling me with a straight face? And I'm
2:11
Speaker 1: not a conspiracy theorist at all, because I don't think
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Speaker 1: people can keep their pieholds shut long enough for a
2:18
Speaker 1: conspiracy to actually work. But you're telling me, Dave Mac,
2:23
Speaker 1: that Virginia Jeffrey dies of suicide. What's the cause of death,
2:30
Speaker 1: How did she die? Who was with her? Where was she?
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Speaker 1: Wasn't she just released from the hospital. You're telling me
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Speaker 1: that she was released while suicidal? And where did this
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Speaker 1: happen exactly? Wasn't it near Gabby? Near Gabby, Australia, population
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Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty eight on the last instance, one
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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty six males, one hundred and twelve females,
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Speaker 1: median age forty one. Dave Mac, you're telling me that
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Speaker 1: in near Gabby Australia. They had a top notch forensics
3:03
Speaker 1: team that knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that
3:06
Speaker 1: she committed suicide with a backdrop of three other witnesses,
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Speaker 1: potential witnesses, and a federal sex ring case. They all
3:15
Speaker 1: die of suicide, you know, Dave Mack and Russia, they
3:18
Speaker 1: push you out of a window. So Dave Matt tell
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Speaker 1: me about Virginia's suicide.
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Speaker 3: Well, what we know about Virginia's suicide Nancy actually comes
3:27
Speaker 3: from her family because there has been no official cause
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Speaker 3: of death that has been placed in the public for
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Speaker 3: any of us to see. It's being used as clickbait
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Speaker 3: all over. But we don't actually have a real cause
3:40
Speaker 3: of death yet. What we have is the family saying
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Speaker 3: she took her own life. We don't know anything more
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Speaker 3: than that except for this Nancy. She was actually staying
3:50
Speaker 3: at her face. She was separated from her husband and
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Speaker 3: staying at their farmhouse, a one point three million dollar
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Speaker 3: farmhouse in area as you mentioned, that is very lightly populated.
4:01
Speaker 3: Her brothers were staying with her in this farmhouse. She's
4:06
Speaker 3: four weeks removed from leaving the hospital, as you mentioned,
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Speaker 3: and she is there apparently, if we are to believe
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Speaker 3: what we're being told that she committed suicide in the
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Speaker 3: middle of a million dollar plus farm mansion, and she
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Speaker 3: is Okay, just.
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Speaker 1: A moment, Dave Mac, I don't recall asking you to
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Speaker 1: put the farm mansion up on real estate site. Okay,
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Speaker 1: we'll get back to the as you say, million dollar
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Speaker 1: mansion in just a moment, asking you about the cod Now,
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Speaker 1: we don't have a cause of death that has not
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Speaker 1: been released. We don't know if there's been an autopsy
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Speaker 1: here in the US. Of course, there would be an
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Speaker 1: autopsy immediately. Whenever there's a question, was there an autopsy,
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Speaker 1: was there a tox ecology screening? You just stated, Dave Mac,
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Speaker 1: that her family said it's a suicide. Well, let me
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Speaker 1: differ with you, because her father, her own father, is
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Speaker 1: calling for an investigation, as is her sister in law
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Speaker 1: and others. They say that she specifically stated, if I die,
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Speaker 1: believe me, I did not commit suicide.
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Speaker 3: Listen to this family of Virginia Jeffrey, led by her
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Speaker 3: father Sky Roberts, are asking her death be investigated. Roberts
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Speaker 3: tells TMZ Virginia said if she ever died by suicide,
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Speaker 3: not to believe it. Virginia herself shares comments about suicide
5:32
Speaker 3: in response to something said on social media, writing, I'm
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Speaker 3: making it publicly known that in no way, shape or
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Speaker 3: form in my suicidal if something happens to me in
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Speaker 3: the sake of my family, do not let this go
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Speaker 3: away and help me to protect them. Too many evil
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Speaker 3: people want to see me quieted.
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Speaker 1: So Dave mag I'm not quite sure where you're getting
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Speaker 1: your information, but you just heard the father and a
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Speaker 1: sister in law who is speaking on behalf of the
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Speaker 1: brother demanding an investigation joining me. Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned
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Speaker 1: chief medical examiner out of Tarre County. That's fort Worth,
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Speaker 1: never a lack of business. He has performed literally thousands
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Speaker 1: of autopsies. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett
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Speaker 1: School of Medicine at TCU. A star of a hit
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Speaker 1: series podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue, set to hit the airwaves,
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Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us. Doctor Kendall Crowns,
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Speaker 1: win at least in the US is an autopsy SOP
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Speaker 1: standard operating procedure.
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Speaker 4: Anytime there's something that's concerning, you always have an autopsy.
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Speaker 4: So if there's a concern for a suicide, an accident,
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Speaker 4: or a homicide, that individual will be autopsy by a
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Speaker 4: medical examiner or a forensic pathologist. In cases of natural
6:51
Speaker 4: deaths where it's unwitnessed or unsuperfied so they don't have
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Speaker 4: a medical history, died outside of a hospital, or died
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Speaker 4: within twenty four hours of reaching the hospital, those will
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Speaker 4: also be autopsis. And then of course any child under
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Speaker 4: the age of six gets autopsy automatically.
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Speaker 1: So in this case, doctor Kendall Crowns, at least in
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Speaker 1: the US, wouldn't there have been no question and autosy.
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Speaker 4: Correct, There's no question there'd be an autopsy on this.
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Speaker 4: With the history of what the history of with Epstein,
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Speaker 4: with the recent history of a possible car accident, and
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Speaker 4: then the history of domestic violence, there's all kinds of
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Speaker 4: factors in play here that could be something that's going
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Speaker 4: on that makes it not a suicide and could be
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Speaker 4: a homicide.
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Speaker 1: We are talking about the suicide of Virginia Giffrey, and
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Speaker 1: this is one of my many many questions. Where's the
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Speaker 1: death certificate? What is a ceod? Has there been a funeral?
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Speaker 1: Where is her body? Don't tell me she's already been
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Speaker 1: cremated for Pete's sat destroying any forensic evidence. Who investigated this,
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Speaker 1: the crack detectives in near Gabby, Australia where there are
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Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty eight people population licenses. Who found her?
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Speaker 1: How did they find her? Did she hang herself? Did
8:18
Speaker 1: she take pills? What pills? We're photos taken, we're measurements taken.
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Speaker 1: And again, what are the odds? What's the likelihood? And
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Speaker 1: of course that can never be argued to a jury statistics,
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Speaker 1: But what you roll the dice? What are the statistics
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Speaker 1: that four witnesses connected to a sex ring, a proven
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Speaker 1: sex ring of the very rich and powerful? Just as
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Speaker 1: the FEDS claim they're going to release all the documents,
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Speaker 1: including a list of massage therapists Epstein paid for her
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Speaker 1: or virginia'supray to have massage lessons? Is she on the list?
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Speaker 1: Was she about to be called as a witness? How
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Speaker 1: did she get tangled up with a perv? A billionaire,
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Speaker 1: but a perv nonetheless like Epstein?
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Speaker 5: This is how Sometimes he would just jerk off in
9:23
Speaker 5: front of them and rub his nipples.
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Speaker 1: Sometimes he would have intercourse with them.
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Speaker 5: Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give him blowjobs. It
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Speaker 5: kind of worked like a pyramid scheme. Gailan brought me in,
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Speaker 5: I brought other girls in. Those girls brought other girls in.
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Speaker 5: Gilan tells me that.
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Speaker 6: I have to do.
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Speaker 5: For Andrew what I do for Jeffrey, and that made
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Speaker 5: me sick. I just didn't expect it from Royalty.
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Speaker 1: That is Virginia's Gifrey speaking about how she was lured
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Speaker 1: by Jeline Maxwell as a little girl, told she could
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Speaker 1: two hundred dollars an hour if she learned to be
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Speaker 1: a messus a massage therapist. Well, what that actually entailed
10:08
Speaker 1: was something very, very different and illegal. You know, when
10:12
Speaker 1: children are molested, they are never the same. They may
10:18
Speaker 1: look the same to me and you, but on the
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Speaker 1: inside they never recover. They may learn to go about
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Speaker 1: their business, hold down a job, try to have a
10:27
Speaker 1: marriage or a family. They're never the same. Now, what
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Speaker 1: you were hearing is from our friends at the Miami
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Speaker 1: Herald and BBC Panorama. That's a Virginia Jeffrey who vowed
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Speaker 1: to never give up the fight, but she committed suicide
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Speaker 1: just on the eve of the federal release of those documents.
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Speaker 1: I want to go to a very special guest. You
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Speaker 1: may not know her name now, but you will. She,
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Speaker 1: like Virginia, was lured in by Epstein. She actually went
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Speaker 1: to Epstein Island. You know what, I will let her
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Speaker 1: tell her story. Lisa Phillips is joining me now. She
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Speaker 1: is the star and the host of a podcast from
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Speaker 1: now on, and it's a real honor to speak with you,
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Speaker 1: miss Phillips. How did you meet if that's the right word,
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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein.
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Speaker 7: So, I was on a photo shoot in early two
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Speaker 7: thousand at the island of Tortola in the British West Indies,
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Speaker 7: very close to his island, and we had a free day,
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Speaker 7: and another young blonde Polish model who looks like Virginia said,
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Speaker 7: you know, I have a friend who owns island. He's
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Speaker 7: been so wonderful to me. He got me my visa
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Speaker 7: to live in the United States, and so she was
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Speaker 7: just said, you know, let's go for the day, and
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Speaker 7: so I just said, okay, sure, I'll go with you.
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Speaker 7: And so I went over to the island and I
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Speaker 7: saw two young blonde girls swimming in the pool with
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Speaker 7: the older gentleman, dark haired gentleman, and then later on
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Speaker 7: we all had dinner together, hung out for the day,
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Speaker 7: and later on that evening, a young blonde girl knocked
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Speaker 7: on my door and told myself and the other blonde
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Speaker 7: girl that Jeffrey needed a massage or Jeffrey actually she
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Speaker 7: said Jeffrey's ready for his massage, and so I just
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Speaker 7: was like, what are you talking about?
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Speaker 1: What massage?
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Speaker 7: And so the other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes
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Speaker 7: you know, massages. You just you have to do it. So,
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Speaker 7: you know, I was trapped on the island. I didn't
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Speaker 7: know where to go. I just you know, followed the
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Speaker 7: girl into his room to do the massage with this
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Speaker 7: other young girl, and I ended up being abused on
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Speaker 7: that island.
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Speaker 1: Lisa, When you say you were abused, what.
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Speaker 7: Happened, Well, like Virginia was planning the massages, so the
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Speaker 7: massages turned into you know, touching and into assault.
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Speaker 1: Were you sex molested Lisa by Jeffrey Epstein? Yes, I was.
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Speaker 1: You know Lynn Shaw joining me? Does it ever end? Lynn?
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Speaker 1: Does it ever end? Lynn is the founder director Lynn's Warriors,
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Speaker 1: committed to ending human trafficking and exploitation of girls, host
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Speaker 1: of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube. Does it ever end? When
13:36
Speaker 1: I hear Lisa and I look at her, she's so beautiful,
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Speaker 1: so articulate, so poised. I mean, Lisa, has your life
13:48
Speaker 1: ever been the same? I mean mine hasn't been the
13:51
Speaker 1: same since I was a victim of violent crime. It's
13:54
Speaker 1: never been the same. What did that do to you?
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Speaker 7: You can see I still get emotional, but I kept
14:00
Speaker 7: it silent for fifteen years. It wasn't until Jeffrey died
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Speaker 7: in twenty nineteen and I saw Virginia speak out. I thought, Wow,
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Speaker 7: this is a courageous woman. Wow, she has like this
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Speaker 7: bravery to speak out about, you know what happened to
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Speaker 7: her with Jeffrey. But it was her story about Prince
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Speaker 7: Andrew was the reason why I spoke out. Because I
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Speaker 7: had a young friend, also a blonde similar to Virginia's look,
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Speaker 7: who was told by Jeffrey to go into a room
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Speaker 7: to have sex with the Prince, and that memory I
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Speaker 7: always remembered because when I met Jeffrey for the very
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Speaker 7: first time on the island, I remembered seeing that man there.
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Speaker 7: So my story connected me that way Andrew. Yes, yes,
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Speaker 7: Jeffrey introduced me to Prince Andrew.
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Speaker 1: Disgusting and he's like a tick, sucking the public's money,
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Speaker 1: living in a mansion and I'm ting you this girls
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Speaker 1: battle now. Woman Virginia Geffray's battle with Epstein and Prince Andrew.
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Speaker 1: She vowed not to give up ever, and I'm supposed
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Speaker 1: to believe that. She said, Oh yet, you know what,
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Speaker 1: I won the battle against Andrew Epstein's dad, So now
15:18
Speaker 1: I'll kill myself. I find that really hard to believe, Lynshaw,
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Speaker 1: Will it ever end? When I see Andrew trotting around
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Speaker 1: bal Morale or Windsor Castle on eighty thousand dollars horse,
15:35
Speaker 1: my stomach clinches. He should be in jail. Did you
15:39
Speaker 1: hear what Lisa just said? Same thing that Virginia said.
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Speaker 8: Listen, we at the Warriors have spoken with have interviewed
15:48
Speaker 8: many victims of Jeffrey Epstein. I want us all to
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Speaker 8: first applaud Lisa for appearing and bravely speaking out. This
15:56
Speaker 8: takes a lot of strength to keep talking about what happens.
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Speaker 8: All commend her. Second of all, Virginia Giuffrey, I will
16:03
Speaker 8: never believe killed herself. She bravely came out as a warrior.
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Speaker 8: And when she did that several years ago, all of
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Speaker 8: the other victims came forward and said, finally, finally we
16:15
Speaker 8: have some support resolution me attention. We're going to get
16:19
Speaker 8: somewhere three facts right away. Law enforcement said, no foul play,
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Speaker 8: nothing to see here. That was number one. Number two,
16:27
Speaker 8: Virginia was in the process of renovating her house. Number three,
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Speaker 8: she was standing for all the other victims. She would
16:34
Speaker 8: not do anything to harm herself. She wanted to be
16:38
Speaker 8: that warrior for them. And I have to add a
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Speaker 8: fourth point. I don't believe she would leave her children.
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Speaker 8: Something happened here. We're not getting the facts. And will
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Speaker 8: it ever end, Nancy, I'm afraid to say, and I
16:48
Speaker 8: don't like saying this. No, this Epstein's story is never
16:51
Speaker 8: going to end. We're never going to hear the truth
16:53
Speaker 8: and the facts about all of this. Too many complicit,
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Speaker 8: powerful people involved.
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Speaker 1: And another thing you heard Shaw say she was in
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Speaker 1: the middle of her renovation. She was fighting to see
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Speaker 1: her children. She would never leave them. But what about
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Speaker 1: this note what she said she was getting ready to
17:13
Speaker 1: do battle. Listen Virginia.
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Speaker 9: Jeffrey's sister in law, Amanda Roberts, wants to release a
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Speaker 9: quote written by Virginia found in a journal at her
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Speaker 9: Australian farmhouse. In her own hand, Virginia wrote, mothers, fathers,
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Speaker 9: sisters and brothers need to show the battle lines are
17:29
Speaker 9: drawn and we stand together to fight for the future
17:32
Speaker 9: of victims. Is protesting the answer? I don't know, but
17:35
Speaker 9: we've got to start somewhere. Jeffrey's brother, Sky Roberts, believes
17:39
Speaker 9: the note was intended for organizers of the Washington DC
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Speaker 9: rally of Sexual assault Survivors. In a section of the note,
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Speaker 9: she writes, we are not going to go away.
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Speaker 2: Sixteen year old Virginia Jeffrey has started working as a
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Speaker 2: traveling massuse for financier Jeffrey Epstein.
17:54
Speaker 3: But not all is as it seems. Virginia, just a.
17:58
Speaker 2: Teen, is being asked to complete tak that are far
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Speaker 2: outside of her responsibilities, and soon the tasks turn into
18:05
Speaker 2: sexual abuse tasks.
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Speaker 1: It makes it sound like Epstein's asking her to file documents.
18:11
Speaker 1: He's asking this teen girl to perform sex acts, oral sex,
18:18
Speaker 1: raping her, massaging him. It goes on and on, and
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Speaker 1: she is not the only girl involved. According to a
18:28
Speaker 1: wide ranging investigation by the federal government, Epstein and his
18:33
Speaker 1: hinch person basically his pimp, Jelanne Maxwell, another millionaire, had
18:38
Speaker 1: created somewhat of a Ponzi scheme, a type of structure
18:49
Speaker 1: where these girls, these young girls would go out and
18:53
Speaker 1: recruit other young girls to take part in sex acts
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Speaker 1: with older, wealthy and prestigious let me say clients. I
19:03
Speaker 1: would call them child rapists. But that's just me. And
19:07
Speaker 1: now we are expected to believe that Virginia Giffrey, just
19:11
Speaker 1: after all of the battle against Epstein, all of the
19:15
Speaker 1: battle against Prince Andrew bringing him down on the cusp
19:19
Speaker 1: of the FEDS releasing more names, she says, Yeah, you
19:24
Speaker 1: know what, I give up. I'm committing suicide. No cod
19:29
Speaker 1: no autopsy report, no toxicology report, nothing. I went to
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Speaker 1: a high school soccer game last night and the other
19:37
Speaker 1: moms were saying, Virginia Giffrey is probably in the witness
19:40
Speaker 1: protection program. Yes, that's where it's going. The rumor meal
19:46
Speaker 1: in high gear and why not without any transparency or clarity.
19:53
Speaker 1: She is not the first person connected to this investigation
19:56
Speaker 1: to die of suicide. What about Carolyn Andreano?
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Speaker 3: When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing
20:05
Speaker 3: Carol and Andreano and continued to abuse her for the
20:08
Speaker 3: next four years. Testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial
20:12
Speaker 3: for sex trafficking miners, Carol and Andreano found dead in
20:15
Speaker 3: a West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age
20:17
Speaker 3: of thirty six, leaving behind a husband of five children.
20:21
Speaker 3: West Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose.
20:24
Speaker 3: Carol and Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have
20:27
Speaker 3: died of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida.
20:30
Speaker 3: The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee
20:33
Speaker 3: sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach
20:36
Speaker 3: hotel from an accidental drug overdose. Patrick's twin sister, Selby Patrick,
20:41
Speaker 3: says Lee skuy suffered tremendously and it all started with Epstein.
20:45
Speaker 1: It all started with Epstein. Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
21:02
Speaker 1: Now we've heard about Carolin Andreano committing suicide by drug overdose.
21:10
Speaker 1: We've heard about Lee sky Patrick committing suicide by overdose.
21:18
Speaker 1: Now we hear about Virginia as You Fray committing suicide
21:23
Speaker 1: by overdose. Well, what about the most high profile suicide
21:31
Speaker 1: Epstein himself.
21:32
Speaker 10: August tenth, twenty nineteen, Jeffrey Epstein's found dead in his cell.
21:36
Speaker 10: Authority say Epstein tied his bed sheet to his bed frame.
21:39
Speaker 10: Lean forward, essentially hanging himself. Several bones in Epstein's neck
21:43
Speaker 10: were fractured. The Inspector General's investigation concluded that prison guards
21:47
Speaker 10: were negligent fudging the records of their half hourly rounds
21:50
Speaker 10: while sleeping on duty. Epstein's cellmate was also inexplicably removed,
21:55
Speaker 10: despite Epstein's lawyer's requests he not be left alone. Cameras
22:00
Speaker 10: that should have monitored Epstein's every move were also not
22:04
Speaker 10: recording during the incident.
22:06
Speaker 1: What happened to Jeffrey Epstein? He had told multiple people
22:10
Speaker 1: that he feared he would be killed behind bars. Specifically,
22:15
Speaker 1: I want to look at the wounds on Epstein's neck,
22:19
Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining me, Chief medical Examiner Terren County,
22:24
Speaker 1: look behind his neck, look at that when someone dies
22:31
Speaker 1: in the way it's purported, Epstein died much like Robin
22:35
Speaker 1: Williams died by tying something around the neck and then
22:40
Speaker 1: attaching it to in this case a bunk bed, and
22:44
Speaker 1: then leaning forward. Why would you have those marks on
22:50
Speaker 1: the back of your neck. And also, doctor Kendall Crowns,
22:54
Speaker 1: let me direct your attention to the photo on the left,
22:57
Speaker 1: the horizontal photo in a typical suicide by hanging, you
23:04
Speaker 1: see more of a U shaped indentation and mark. This
23:09
Speaker 1: looks more like a ligature from behind by an assailant mark.
23:13
Speaker 1: And it's not just me saying this, there are renowned
23:18
Speaker 1: medical examiners who agree.
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Speaker 4: Usually, when you have someone who commits suicide by hanging
23:23
Speaker 4: and use of the ligature will attach it to something,
23:26
Speaker 4: and then when they hang themselves, the ligature furrow will
23:28
Speaker 4: pull upwards and you get an inverted V on the neck.
23:32
Speaker 4: I mean it's usually all the way around the neck.
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Speaker 4: You'll see this's inverted B. In a non suicide.
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Speaker 1: Right, inverted the you mean like a smile.
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Speaker 4: An upside down smile, Yeah, would be another way to
23:45
Speaker 4: describe it is another way. Yes, I would agree with that.
23:49
Speaker 4: So when you have someone that's strangled with the ligature,
23:52
Speaker 4: you don't get that inverted B or upside down smile
23:54
Speaker 4: because they're standing behind you and pulling that ligature tight
23:57
Speaker 4: around your neck, and that creates those kind of more
24:00
Speaker 4: horizontal lines. The problem with Epstein is every description I've
24:04
Speaker 4: heard of the wound and the pictures I've seen is
24:07
Speaker 4: it doesn't look like it's going upwards. So it's very unusual.
24:11
Speaker 4: He could could he have hanged himself by putting his
24:15
Speaker 4: neck into the ligature that's just the U and then
24:18
Speaker 4: leaning forward. It would cause that without seeing it on
24:22
Speaker 4: the back of the neck, but you would still get
24:24
Speaker 4: kind of an upward tilt to it. And then that's
24:26
Speaker 4: also a soft ligature. You're not going to get all
24:29
Speaker 4: the fracturing that you're seeing with Epstein as well of
24:33
Speaker 4: the highway bone, which is hold on right.
24:36
Speaker 1: Hold on right there, you got to drink from the
24:38
Speaker 1: fire hydrant. Epstein's death, according to some the medical examiner,
24:44
Speaker 1: who was working for the state says there were three
24:47
Speaker 1: fractures of the hyoid bone and the thyroid cartilage. Now,
24:52
Speaker 1: according to renowned medical examiner Michael Bowden, he says the
24:57
Speaker 1: injuries indicate homicide strangulation, not suicide. Now Boden was the
25:06
Speaker 1: chief medical examiner in New York City and is now
25:10
Speaker 1: considered as a celebrity forensic witness. Do you agree or
25:15
Speaker 1: disagree with Michael Boden, Doctor Crowns.
25:18
Speaker 4: The problem I have is with the age of Epstein,
25:22
Speaker 4: those bones become more bony and they become more brittle,
25:25
Speaker 4: so they're more readily fractured. But you don't usually see
25:29
Speaker 4: a lot of the fractures, and I'd have to do
25:31
Speaker 4: a lot more looking at the case, looking at those
25:33
Speaker 4: pictures to really give you a true opinion on that.
25:38
Speaker 4: But it is very unusual what we're seeing in Epstein's
25:41
Speaker 4: case for it to be a suicidal hangar.
25:44
Speaker 3: Virginia Jeffrey and Prince Andrew are forever linked by Jeffrey's
25:47
Speaker 3: allegations of sex abuse. Jeffers claims gil Maxwell set her
25:50
Speaker 3: up for sex with the Prince on three occasions starting
25:53
Speaker 3: at age seventeen, resulting in a lawsuit which the Prince settled,
25:56
Speaker 3: all the while denying he had sex with the teen.
25:59
Speaker 3: Likely the most damaging consequence for Prince Andrew is being
26:02
Speaker 3: stripped of his royal and military titles. Jeffrey's death creates
26:06
Speaker 3: more negativity as the allegations jump back into the headlines.
26:09
Speaker 3: According to one royal watcher, Jeffrey's death does not exonerate him,
26:13
Speaker 3: but merely closes the matter.
26:15
Speaker 1: In the midst of Andrew's alleged battle to hold on
26:19
Speaker 1: to the mansion he's been living in rent free, suddenly
26:22
Speaker 1: Virginia Geffrey commits suicide. After all she has survived in
26:27
Speaker 1: the midst of another battle, seeking support for sex attack
26:33
Speaker 1: victims across the world, she suddenly commits suicide. Listen to Virginia.
26:41
Speaker 11: I was recruited at a very young age from our
26:43
Speaker 11: alago and entrapped in a world that I didn't understand.
26:47
Speaker 11: And I've been fighting that very world to this day
26:50
Speaker 11: and I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced
26:53
Speaker 11: until these people are brought to justice.
26:55
Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox News, I won't stop fighting.
26:58
Speaker 1: I will continue to fight until all of these people
27:00
Speaker 1: are brought to justice. I will never be silenced. Yet,
27:04
Speaker 1: somewhere in near Gabby, population about two hundred people, she
27:09
Speaker 1: commits suicide. According to some listen to more, I know
27:14
Speaker 1: this guy. There's an opportunity.
27:16
Speaker 5: Actually, if you want to become a real massage therapist,
27:19
Speaker 5: we can get you trained. You can come for the
27:22
Speaker 5: interview tonight and if he likes you, then you'll be
27:25
Speaker 5: a real.
27:26
Speaker 1: Messuse you said, take off your clothes.
27:28
Speaker 5: I had these little girl undies on, like little hearts
27:32
Speaker 5: on them, I remember, and they were laughing at that
27:35
Speaker 5: because they like that the younger you look, the better
27:37
Speaker 5: it is. It it turns very sexual and it was
27:43
Speaker 5: abuse straight away from both of them.
27:46
Speaker 1: That's Virginia speaking to our friends at Lifetime joining me
27:48
Speaker 1: Renow psychoanalysts out of La, author of deal Breakers at
27:53
Speaker 1: Dodtor Bethanymarshall dot com. You can see her now on
27:57
Speaker 1: Peacock Doctor, Bethany. Did you hear what Virginia just said?
28:01
Speaker 1: She was a little girl and on her girls undies
28:06
Speaker 1: there were hearts and all of the adults started laughing
28:10
Speaker 1: at that because she was such a quote little girl.
28:14
Speaker 1: It's disgusting.
28:15
Speaker 12: It is disgusting, and they abused her in so many ways.
28:19
Speaker 12: Not only did they predate upon her when she was
28:22
Speaker 12: just working at mar A Lago, and one of the
28:26
Speaker 12: reports says she was actually in foster care before that,
28:28
Speaker 12: so she was as typical with their victims, in a
28:32
Speaker 12: very vulnerable, precarious place in their life, longing for parental
28:36
Speaker 12: love or love from adults. But then they laugh at
28:39
Speaker 12: her underwear and it doesn't stop there, Nancy. A lot
28:43
Speaker 12: of the victims have reported that once they tried to
28:46
Speaker 12: get away from Epstein and Gilan Maxwell that Gillan and
28:52
Speaker 12: Epstein came after them. So it's a lot like the
28:56
Speaker 12: Catholic priests who predated on young kids. You know when
28:59
Speaker 12: they has tried to break away, the priests would keep
29:02
Speaker 12: stalking them. So this is sort of a life time
29:07
Speaker 12: of abuse that Jeffreys has been exposed to.
29:11
Speaker 1: Nancy.
29:12
Speaker 12: When I first heard of this death, I thought, she
29:15
Speaker 12: is such a resilient woman. How cand a woman who's
29:19
Speaker 12: so resilient take her own life. She also has three children.
29:22
Speaker 12: She was talking about restoring her farmhouse. Shows she was
29:26
Speaker 12: thinking about having a bright and optimistic future, which is
29:29
Speaker 12: not what you see with people who are suicidal. Often
29:32
Speaker 12: they feel very hopeless. They feel they actually make no
29:36
Speaker 12: references to the future if they're planning on kill them
29:39
Speaker 12: killing themselves. So this whole story just doesn't make sense.
29:51
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace mag to your special guest,
29:55
Speaker 1: Lisa Phillips A joining us Epstein's Survivor and you can
29:59
Speaker 1: say her. She is the founder and the star of
30:02
Speaker 1: a podcast from now on, and her story is amazing.
30:09
Speaker 1: I have seen sex assault victims who can't even raise
30:14
Speaker 1: their head and look up and meet your gaze. She
30:19
Speaker 1: has continued to battle on and she was inspired when
30:23
Speaker 1: Virginia spoke out. Lisa, I don't understand how Epstein's web
30:31
Speaker 1: of sex trafficking with very rich very powerful clients. How
30:38
Speaker 1: it has stayed silent for so long, and even now
30:42
Speaker 1: DC is kicking rocks. They're not releasing the documents they
30:46
Speaker 1: promised they would release. Why doesn't that bother you?
30:50
Speaker 7: Well, I think victims don't understand what's going on in
30:52
Speaker 7: the moment. For many years, I didn't understand it until
30:55
Speaker 7: I started talking to other survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and
30:59
Speaker 7: realizing that our stories were exactly the same. So meeting
31:04
Speaker 7: Virginia and talking to her in those years, I realized
31:07
Speaker 7: that she was a young girl that I met on
31:09
Speaker 7: the island. That day, I realized I saw her frolicking
31:12
Speaker 7: in the pool with prince with the prince, and later
31:15
Speaker 7: on I met the prince that evening, And then a
31:19
Speaker 7: couple of years later, I had a young friend that
31:21
Speaker 7: was also abused by the prince, was told by Jeffrey
31:23
Speaker 7: to go into a room to have sex with this prince.
31:26
Speaker 7: And that was the reason I started speaking out. And
31:28
Speaker 7: then when I started talking to all these I being
31:32
Speaker 7: a lot of girls, there was thirty forty fifty of
31:34
Speaker 7: them that I was speaking to, and we were all
31:36
Speaker 7: in this group and understanding that the same men that
31:42
Speaker 7: we were being introduced to we were actually being trafficked to,
31:46
Speaker 7: because oftentimes it ended in abuse or an attempted assault.
31:51
Speaker 7: So we started putting it all together that this was
31:54
Speaker 7: a sex trafficking ring, and I started getting angrier and
31:58
Speaker 7: angrier about this, and that's why we started discussingly we
32:01
Speaker 7: need to have a podcast about these serial predators. And
32:04
Speaker 7: I focused obviously on Jeffrey Epstein and just knowing the
32:09
Speaker 7: abuse that I for myself, and I also witnessed many
32:14
Speaker 7: many girls that were eighteen to twenty four in New York.
32:17
Speaker 13: In Florida.
32:18
Speaker 7: You know, with Blaine, they were underage, but in New York,
32:21
Speaker 7: most of the women were between eighteen and twenty four.
32:24
Speaker 7: Hundreds that have come forward.
32:26
Speaker 1: Speaking of Palm Beach joining me now is a veteran
32:31
Speaker 1: trial lawyer. Andrea Lewis, partner at Circe Law Firm in
32:37
Speaker 1: Palm Beach, Florida, President of Palm Beach County Bar Association
32:43
Speaker 1: at circelaw dot com. She was there in that jurisdiction
32:49
Speaker 1: when Epstein was prosecuted and given a slap on the
32:54
Speaker 1: risk trust me Andrew had nothing to do with that
32:59
Speaker 1: cover up, which it was and that ended up costing
33:03
Speaker 1: Acosta his job way up in the federal government because
33:08
Speaker 1: he went along with that deal where Epstein had been
33:12
Speaker 1: molesting child after child, after girl after girl, and he
33:16
Speaker 1: basically got a form of house arrest. He would have
33:20
Speaker 1: to report to the jail, but then once he reported,
33:23
Speaker 1: he could have his private limo driver pick him up
33:27
Speaker 1: at the jail. He'd be gone all day and come
33:30
Speaker 1: back to sleep there nothing. He got nothing. And so
33:36
Speaker 1: when you hear that one out of four people connected
33:40
Speaker 1: to this sex ring now having committed suicide, I mean, Asia,
33:45
Speaker 1: that doesn't raise a bell of alarm to you.
33:47
Speaker 13: Well, Nancy, your one hundred percent right. I mean, the
33:50
Speaker 13: facts here are really shocking.
33:53
Speaker 6: I mean, it is so unusual to have this many suicides,
33:58
Speaker 6: this many tragedies all day are circling this one very
34:02
Speaker 6: powerful man. And of course, as you noted time and
34:06
Speaker 6: time again, the other very unusual thing about this story
34:10
Speaker 6: is the other powerful, wealthy people that continue to roam free,
34:17
Speaker 6: who were of course involved in some way or another
34:20
Speaker 6: in this horrific, longstanding acts. On these horrific long standing
34:27
Speaker 6: acts of child abuse and human trafficking.
34:30
Speaker 1: Virginia Giffray had just begun to fight, But now we
34:35
Speaker 1: hear she, like three other people connected to this very
34:39
Speaker 1: powerful sex ring, have just committed suicide. Not according to
34:46
Speaker 1: her lawyer.
34:47
Speaker 14: This case is not going away.
34:50
Speaker 10: For Junior Geffrey is not going to go away, and
34:54
Speaker 10: I'm not going to go away.
34:55
Speaker 1: Were now lawyer David Boys insisting Virginia's that fight is
35:00
Speaker 1: not going to go away. As a matter of fact,
35:04
Speaker 1: she was supporting Denim Day, a march a protest in
35:09
Speaker 1: Washington across from the Capitol to support rape at Sex
35:12
Speaker 1: Assault Victims' Rights IRV. Branton joining me now. Former Senior
35:17
Speaker 1: Inspector US Marshall has literally gone around the world hunting
35:22
Speaker 1: down bad guys. Author of an entire series on Amazon
35:27
Speaker 1: about Jack solo latest solo shot, Curse of the Blue
35:31
Speaker 1: Stone RV Prince Andrew, Listen, that's me.
35:37
Speaker 15: But whether that's my hand or whether that's the position,
35:42
Speaker 15: but I don't. I have simply no recollection of a
35:46
Speaker 15: photograph ever being taken.
35:47
Speaker 1: That was the train Wreck interview Andrew gave. That was
35:52
Speaker 1: from of our friends at BBC, and this is the
35:54
Speaker 1: photo he's talking about. First, she said that couldn't be
35:57
Speaker 1: him because he had never been to Julane Maxwell's second
36:00
Speaker 1: story of her. Oh, there she is, second story of
36:03
Speaker 1: her condo, I believe in Mayfair, a tony part of London,
36:09
Speaker 1: and there he is with Virginia Jeffrey. Then he says
36:13
Speaker 1: it couldn't be him because these are not the clothes
36:17
Speaker 1: he would have worn in London, because these are his quote,
36:21
Speaker 1: traveling clothes. What is he talking about, er Brandt his
36:25
Speaker 1: traveling clothes? Really? Then he tried to claim that that's
36:30
Speaker 1: not his left hand because it's too red. Wow, it
36:33
Speaker 1: matches his right hand. I mean. Then he said he
36:37
Speaker 1: couldn't possibly have met her at disco because she said
36:41
Speaker 1: he was sweating and he doesn't sweat because of a
36:43
Speaker 1: war wound. It just gets the worse. Train wreck, perfect
36:47
Speaker 1: way to describe it. What do the laws work differently
36:50
Speaker 1: in Great Britain than they do in the US because
36:52
Speaker 1: he should be in jail.
36:53
Speaker 14: Men say it's the whole thing's disturbing. And when you
36:57
Speaker 14: said train wreck, I would say that's the best way
37:00
Speaker 14: to describe it. The stories don't make sense, The answers
37:05
Speaker 14: to the questions don't make sense. For an investigator conducting
37:12
Speaker 14: in an interview, I just couldn't imagine. I would throw
37:17
Speaker 14: my hands up in the air, you know, and look
37:20
Speaker 14: and look at the person that I'm interviewing and ask them,
37:23
Speaker 14: what are you trying to say? I can't make any
37:26
Speaker 14: sense of it. And just listening to you describe it,
37:30
Speaker 14: I can't make any sense of it.
37:32
Speaker 1: And even after that sweetheart deal, and yes, Andrew Lewis,
37:36
Speaker 1: I know you had nothing at all to do with it.
37:38
Speaker 1: In fact, you opposed it in Palm Beach, Andrew was
37:42
Speaker 1: still snugged up with Epstein in his Manhattan mansion and
37:48
Speaker 1: they have been spotted on camera walking through Central Park.
37:51
Speaker 1: I mean, Andrew lewis Is certainly is not probative. But
37:56
Speaker 1: have you did your grandma say to you, birds of
37:58
Speaker 1: a feather flocked together, lay down with the dog. You'll
38:01
Speaker 1: wake up with the flea. What was Andrew doing with
38:05
Speaker 1: Epstein except something the farious? And why isn't he in jail?
38:08
Speaker 13: Well, Nan, see, that's a great question, and it's a
38:10
Speaker 13: question that's on everybody's mind because certainly you have somebody
38:15
Speaker 13: who is rich and powerful, who is a known associate
38:19
Speaker 13: to somebody who is clearly involved in the abuse of children,
38:26
Speaker 13: widespread abusive children over many years, and it really leaves
38:30
Speaker 13: you questioning how wouldn't he have known about this? Everybody
38:35
Speaker 13: else seems to have known about this.
38:37
Speaker 1: And you know, did you just hear Lisa Phillips, Lisa Phillips,
38:40
Speaker 1: Let me see, Lisa, you're sure that was Andrew, Prince Andrew.
38:45
Speaker 1: I guess his last name is York or Wales or whatever.
38:49
Speaker 1: That was him paddling around in the pool what in
38:52
Speaker 1: a thong with those teen girls? Mm hmm.
38:55
Speaker 7: It was definitely him, because Jeffrey introduced me to the
38:57
Speaker 7: prince after I told him how I grew up in Oxford.
38:59
Speaker 1: And yet I just saw a shot of him galloping
39:04
Speaker 1: around Windsor Castle on the grounds on like an eighty
39:09
Speaker 1: thousand dollars horse. Why is he not in jail? Well,
39:13
Speaker 1: recall that he agreed to a settlement of millions and
39:18
Speaker 1: millions of dollars with Virginia's Giffrey. Now she won that battle,
39:24
Speaker 1: she's continuing to fight. You want to tell me that
39:28
Speaker 1: when those dogs are finally released by the fans, that's
39:30
Speaker 1: not going to open up a big can of worms,
39:33
Speaker 1: and her voice will be needed. And as a matter
39:37
Speaker 1: of fact, think about what she's already overcome. Listen to
39:41
Speaker 1: Virginia's Gefrey speaking to our friends at Lifetime.
39:43
Speaker 5: I remember sitting at the bottom of my shower and
39:46
Speaker 5: crying my eyes out. I'd been on the streets and
39:50
Speaker 5: I thought, you know, well, maybe this is the lesser
39:53
Speaker 5: of two evils.
39:54
Speaker 1: I had the promise of an education and.
39:57
Speaker 5: Maybe this is just how the world works.
39:59
Speaker 1: From our f friends at Lifetime. And after she survived
40:03
Speaker 1: all of that, now with a multimillion dollar settlement, she
40:07
Speaker 1: decides to quit. Did Epstein survivor Virginia Geffray's commit suicide?
40:19
Speaker 1: It would make her one of four people witnesses in
40:25
Speaker 1: the Epstein case, one at a four that committed suicide.
40:31
Speaker 1: What are the odds of that? To special guests Lisa Phillips,
40:35
Speaker 1: Epstein survivor, star of podcast From Now On, Lisa, how
40:43
Speaker 1: did it impact you when you learned Virginia is dead? Oh?
40:48
Speaker 7: That was a hard, hard day for me and it
40:51
Speaker 7: has been since. I just had so many emotions and.
40:56
Speaker 13: I just feel so bad for the life that she lived.
41:00
Speaker 7: You know, the cycle of abuse is what we focus
41:02
Speaker 7: on and from now on in the healing process that
41:05
Speaker 7: she has been through fighting since she was a child,
41:08
Speaker 7: a child of rape and a runaway in a traffic
41:11
Speaker 7: victim and a domestic violence survivor, so it's been a
41:15
Speaker 7: hard life for her and I really do hope that
41:18
Speaker 7: she didn't commit suicide, but it's a highly suspicious death.
41:22
Speaker 1: Suspicious, yes it is again Vegas odds. They don't lie.
41:29
Speaker 1: I hope and pray for justice in this case and tonight.
41:36
Speaker 1: A hero Virginia Geoffrey, who lived a life of torment
41:44
Speaker 1: but managed to bring down one of the most powerful
41:50
Speaker 1: and most wealthy men in the US, Jeffrey Epstein and
41:57
Speaker 1: his hinch person Julanne Maxwell, now seeking a presidential pardon.
42:02
Speaker 1: She never quit fighting, regardless of the obstacles in front
42:06
Speaker 1: of her, and was an inspiration to so many other
42:10
Speaker 1: sex attack victims around the world. Virginia Jeffrey, godspeed. Nancy
42:21
Speaker 1: Grace signing off goodbye friend.