Latest / Replay Reviews / Use Your Knees, Ya Woman! | Red Dead Redemption | Part 5

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Use Your Knees, Ya Woman! | Red Dead Redemption | Part 5 · Replay Reviews

0:00
In this episode, John's sarcasm reaches an all
0:02
-time high. And speaking of, Ross should really
0:06
leave the humor to John. And also, use your knees,
0:09
ya woman. Thank you for coming back for more
0:14
replay reviews. My name is Leah. And my name
0:16
is Kathy. We are two friends who are here to
0:18
replay, review, and analyze your favorite video
0:21
games. And since Kathy has never seen the games
0:23
before, it helps me view them through her fresh
0:25
eyes. Almost like I'm discovering them again
0:27
for the first time. We hope it will be a similar
0:30
experience for you. Scene 1. John arrives at
0:40
McDougal's. He's all hot and bothered about some
0:43
breakthrough he's had. Sounds like somehow Dutch
0:46
is part of his breakthrough. He describes it
0:48
as a win -win for both of them. To me, tell me
0:52
if you thought different. It sounded like what
0:54
he was... saying is Dutch is a good case study
0:58
for reverting back to a savage spirit. That's
1:03
what it sounds like. But I also feel like the
1:06
professor is saying there's one race that's superior
1:09
to the other race. Yeah. Keep in mind, this professor
1:12
is shooting up, so he's not quite with it. An
1:15
understatement. So they leave. I think John's
1:19
just like, you know what, if I get Dutch out
1:20
of this, whatever. I'm not sure what's happening,
1:23
but. Yeah. Nastas joins up too because he's set
1:26
up a meeting between some of Dutch's men and
1:29
McDougal. Unsurprisingly, the meeting turns out
1:32
to be a setup. Nastas gets shot right in the
1:36
face and John takes down all three men in the
1:39
cabin before they race back to Blackwater. Nastas
1:43
dying so quickly or so soon was something I was
1:46
not expecting because proportionally we get a
1:50
lot of the first third of the game about like
1:54
just the country in the wild west and then a
1:56
big portion was about in mexico so it's like
1:58
great we are here where there's some native americans
2:01
it's going to be great getting to see more of
2:04
that and no he immediately dies proportional
2:07
to everything that happened in mexico yeah that's
2:10
crazy only the innocent people die in this game
2:14
i mean some people have died that deserve it
2:16
maybe three well i would rather the professor
2:19
died than nas is dying And I feel like that's
2:22
unfair. This professor is literally on crack.
2:26
He is just insane. And I think he would fit right
2:30
in with any of the Outlast characters or in like
2:33
the inpatient. Yeah, he could be a Dr. Traeger
2:37
for sure. And yeah, poor Nastas. All he's trying
2:40
to do is broker peace between these two sides
2:44
and he just gets shot in the face for it. And
2:47
John's reaction is, holy shit, damn you, Dutch.
2:51
So he's obviously saying Dutch is responsible
2:53
for this. Is it because he is manipulating this
2:57
gang of men? Or what do you think Dutch has to
3:00
do with this specifically? Maybe that was just
3:03
like because of Dutch, I'm doing all these unnecessary
3:06
things and putting people into worse positions
3:09
or making people more anxious and then innocent
3:12
people are dying. I think we need to do a so
3:14
long for Nastas. Or Nastas. I'm not sure how
3:17
to say it. But I kind of don't want to pronounce
3:19
it the same way McDougal does. Yeah. Probably
3:22
so long Mother Respecter. He didn't really do
3:25
anything wrong. He was loyal and he was just
3:27
caught in the crossfire. And he held his cool
3:29
so well. Yeah. Dealing with McDougal and Ross.
3:33
Mm -hmm. He's a Mother Respecter. Just the patience
3:35
alone. Oh, yeah. And the fact that McDoodle...
3:39
McDoodle? We should call him that. That McDougal
3:43
tried to take credit for carrying John down the
3:45
mountain when Dutch shot at him. But it was all
3:48
Nostus, and he did it with a knife injury. He
3:53
didn't have to do that. He's a good person. Definitely
3:56
a mother respecter. Later on, John checks back
4:01
in with McDougal, who's still in a panic after
4:04
the shootout and is frantically packing his things.
4:06
He says, I'm not cut out for this at all. And
4:09
John says, Nope. No. And it's great. So I don't
4:16
think anyone is surprised when McDougal starts
4:18
shooting up. And whilst shooting up, someone
4:21
shoots in at them. Turns out to be Dutch. And
4:24
he wants to kill them both. I love how at this
4:27
scene, watching in person, you jumped in with
4:30
McDougal. And that's the one and only time I
4:34
think that you kind of got scared and I didn't.
4:38
And I had to kind of keep it on the record because
4:43
it's an accomplishment for me. I must have just
4:46
been focused deeply on something. Yeah. And then
4:50
the gunshot just spooked me. I don't know. I
4:53
could see it kind of like a flinch in the corner
4:55
of my eye. And I was like, oh, my gosh, Leah's
4:58
scared before I get scared. That's a first. But
5:01
moving on, this is the scene where Dutch is just.
5:06
He's kind of hilarious because he's super cheery
5:08
and just having a normal conversation with John
5:11
while McDougal is freaking out. Let's discuss
5:15
a little bit about what Dutch is saying. He's
5:18
sort of justifying his actions in a way and them
5:22
wanting to kill John and McDougal. We're fighting
5:26
for something a bit like you. Only we're fighting
5:30
for an idea, not just for ourselves. He probably
5:35
has some kind of ideology against the government
5:37
or whatever party he's opposed to. So I think
5:42
that's just him. He's a rebel and maybe he's
5:45
trying to fight for something. And if it means
5:48
that he's also stealing things along the way,
5:50
that's why he's saying he's not a thief. He's
5:53
just fighting for a cause. What do you think
5:56
killing John and McDougal have to do with what
5:59
they're fighting for? He probably sees them as...
6:03
either backstabbers or traitors, or he's thinking
6:07
that they're going to stop him from accomplishing
6:11
his cause. Dutch is threatening them, saying
6:14
he wants them both, and I think he says to send
6:17
out McDougal so we can end this. And this is
6:20
when McDougal is appealing to John, and he goes,
6:23
Please, sir, what are we going to do? Please,
6:25
sir, what are we going to do? I'm going to hand
6:27
you over to him and watch him tear you limb from
6:29
limb. What? I'm just kidding. I was not expecting
6:33
that kind of humor in it. And it's so refreshing
6:36
to see John having his sense of humor now compared
6:39
to when he was in Mexico. Well, I think there's
6:43
some also great humor in the scene where immediately
6:47
it cuts to a scene of a man and a woman playing
6:50
around in another bedroom, shimmying. Getting
6:56
ready. And then immediately the professor gets
6:59
caught. Not too soon afterwards. It's just a
7:02
lot happening within back -to -back scenes. I
7:06
know. Dumbass McDougal. So confident. We can
7:08
go this way. Immediately gets captured. But in
7:13
the end, they are able to escape to Manzanita
7:15
Post where he takes the train. And I think John
7:18
is pretty happy to have this guy out of his life.
7:20
Yeah, there is one thing I want... All our viewers
7:23
to know and our listeners to know is how cool
7:26
of a shot you took. How you just shot the guy
7:29
behind McDougal when he's held hostage. No dead
7:32
eye. You know what I think it was, though? I
7:34
didn't give a shit if I shot McDougal by accident.
7:37
There was no pressure at all. Yeah, that was
7:41
pretty impressive, though. John meets back up
7:45
with Ross and Fordham. But before we get inside...
7:48
I came in kind of hot on the horse, and I jumped
7:52
off while still in motion, and my horse continues
7:56
on for a few steps and crashes into some guy,
7:59
and the way he says, the hell? It's just fantastic.
8:07
Anyway, he presses Ross and Fordham again about
8:10
getting his family back, but they say their demands
8:13
have not yet been met. We get a lot of really
8:16
deep... I suppose, conversations here from Ross.
8:20
Is there anything you wanted to highlight? Yes.
8:23
So I love how John's like, I'm done. I did what
8:27
you asked. Give me my family back. This is where
8:30
I understand in those previous episodes that
8:34
we had a conversation, how you sided with John
8:37
saying he's a desperate man. I don't think I've
8:39
ever seen him as desperate and how much he's
8:43
ready to break until the scene where I now understand
8:46
that. sense of desperation and why he's willing
8:49
to do what he did in mexico i don't agree with
8:52
it i wish he had still had more backbone but
8:54
this is the first time where i've seen that just
8:56
he's he's tired he's about to break and then
9:00
he has to listen to ross just being theatric
9:05
and dramatic so i'm like okay i get where you
9:09
come from now that i've seen this scene it makes
9:11
sense of what we watched before he just can't
9:15
really afford to take any risks But speaking
9:18
of Ross, I guess he's explaining to John the
9:22
difference between what Dutch says he is and
9:26
what he actually is. He uses the metaphor of
9:30
like a nature novelist and specifically flowers.
9:35
So the quote is about Dutch. Rather than just
9:39
loving the flowers and the animals and the harmony
9:42
between man and beast. He shoots people in the
9:46
head for money and disagreeing with them. He's
9:50
a goddamn killer. Now, I'm not a great intellect,
9:58
but the metaphysical leap from admiring the flower
10:03
to shooting a man in the head because he doesn't
10:06
like the flower is a leap too far. I feel like
10:10
I should know. What he's talking about, which
10:13
I'm assuming it's about the difference between
10:16
Dutch shooting and killing someone, but then
10:19
compared to the police doing the same thing.
10:22
But I don't know if I'm on the right track. And
10:26
that's kind of where it goes next. He says, while
10:31
the rules may not be perfect, they're not so
10:33
bad. Civilization may be dull, but the alternative,
10:36
Mr. Marston, is hell. I wrote, he has a good
10:39
point, but also I love John's response, which
10:41
is basically like, what the hell are you talking
10:43
about? And he also says something about, but
10:47
it's okay for you to kidnap someone's wife and
10:49
child. And Ross is like, the rules may not be
10:53
perfect, but they are what they are. One other
10:56
frustrating thing is in this entire conversation,
10:59
they make themselves sound so superior that they
11:02
don't need John's help, yet they haven't been
11:05
able to catch Dutch, yet they criticize. Everything
11:08
about John and Dutch. And them mentioning the
11:12
harmony between man and beast. It's like they're
11:15
using John as the beast. Like you still have
11:19
to have the harmony because the beast is still
11:22
there. But they're using a beast to catch a beast
11:24
instead of doing it themselves. They're definitely
11:28
being hypocritical and he even admits it. Too
11:32
bad. What are you going to do about it? It's
11:35
like we have the upper hand. And unfortunately,
11:38
they're right. And that's what I find so compelling
11:41
about Ross as a villain. I hate the man, but
11:44
sometimes some of what he says is not wrong.
11:47
You know, he has a point. And John's no saint,
11:50
so that's why it's easier to drive home those
11:52
points. But you just love to hate him. Yeah.
11:57
I think it's also disgusting how they talk about
12:00
Abigail. Yeah. It's so bad. I just, I did not
12:04
like watching that scene. It's just like they're
12:06
trying to rile him up. They're like, give me
12:09
a reason, John, to shoot you right here. Which
12:11
I so wish John could punch them in the face,
12:15
but it wouldn't get them anywhere. I know. So
12:20
they all leave to end Dutch once and for all.
12:23
After some very long -winded shootouts, the agents
12:26
say they need to go after Dutch tonight before
12:28
he slips away for good. John pushes them, saying,
12:32
what if I refuse? But they respond saying that
12:35
the last person they have to appeal to Dutch
12:37
is Abigail. John says that won't be necessary.
12:41
So we see again how John just does not have any
12:45
control or any other options. So they're riding
12:49
to Dutch's hideout. And there's some conversation.
12:53
I love John saying, don't speak to me. But the
12:57
line that stood out to me is Fordham saying,
12:59
there's always someone watching. did that hit
13:02
you when you heard it i just thought that that
13:06
meant like now that he's back in this area that
13:09
they'll always keep an eye out so telling john
13:12
like because that's the whole the beast comparison
13:14
they're like don't step out of line because you
13:16
can easily kidnap your wife again but i think
13:20
that that's too shallow of what he's saying i
13:23
think he means something else i almost think
13:26
he said too much there and we'll talk about it
13:29
at the end of the game but I think he let John
13:33
get to him a little bit and he spilled a few
13:35
too many beans. So they do arrive at Dutch's
13:39
hideout and a fight begins. John chases after
13:42
Dutch until he finds himself backed into a corner
13:45
or I guess a cliff. Two of them have their one
13:48
-on -one. And they have, I think it's again,
13:52
part of John's sarcasm is something that Dutch
13:56
also shares because he's like, we've got to stop
13:59
meeting like this. And Dutch looks pretty sad
14:03
in this situation. I think he knows there's no
14:06
escape this time. I agree. He says, I've got
14:10
a plan, John. John responds, you've always got
14:13
a plan, Dutch. And he says, this is a good one.
14:17
And he drops his gun, and John lowers his in
14:20
response. It is pretty sad, though, because Dutch...
14:24
I can't remember if he says this before or after,
14:26
but he says his whole life, all he did was fight
14:29
and he can't fight anymore. But then there's
14:32
also like a paradox because he's saying that
14:34
he can't fight his own nature. The whole quote
14:37
is, we can't always fight nature, John. We can't
14:41
fight change. We can't fight gravity. We can't
14:43
fight nothing. My whole life, all I ever did
14:45
was fight. John says, then give up, Dutch. And
14:49
Dutch's response is, but I can't give up neither.
14:51
I can't fight my own nature. And then John says,
14:55
then I have to shoot you. So I think this does
14:59
tie back into the man versus beast and the nature
15:03
conversation. Dutch recognizes what he is in
15:06
this moment. He would die for fighting for whatever
15:10
cause he mentioned in the earlier scene, then
15:14
to surrender to John, who is going to be that
15:18
biggest barrier to whatever cause he's fighting.
15:22
It's kind of like if Reyes got captured, maybe
15:25
Reyes would kill himself. I don't know. Dutch
15:29
then says, when I'm gone, they'll just find another
15:31
monster. They have to because they have to justify
15:34
their wages. The whole beast conversation is
15:38
similar to monster. My biggest thing is we're
15:42
letting these police officers decide who's considered
15:45
as the monster and who's not. And isn't there
15:49
any kind of justification? or criteria of what
15:53
makes a monster a monster because we saw in Mexico
15:57
how DeSanta was saying that Reyes is a monster
16:01
and then you hear the other way it goes the other
16:03
way around so maybe this is just again a paradox
16:08
saying that you say that the police are trying
16:10
to find these monsters and they're going to justify
16:13
their wages by saying that you pay us and then
16:15
we take care of these when in fact maybe it's
16:18
the police that are monsters And that's kind
16:21
of what this game highlights. And I think we
16:24
should come back to that at the end. I guess
16:27
Dutch has said all he needs to say. His last
16:30
line is, our time has passed, John. And with
16:33
that, he falls backwards, killing himself. What
16:36
a cool way to go out. You didn't let anyone capture
16:39
you. And he doesn't let John, someone who is,
16:43
quote unquote, beneath him, be the one to take
16:46
him down. I'm not surprised that this is how
16:49
he goes out. But I find it interesting. It's
16:53
still not a win, you know, like he still he recognizes
16:57
when he says our time has passed that it's over
17:00
for him. And so I get ending it this way rather
17:04
than at the hands of someone else. But it still
17:07
kind of is at the hands of someone else because
17:09
they backed him into this corner. He made sure
17:12
that he wouldn't get brought back into prison
17:15
and maybe tortured by the police or he wouldn't.
17:19
be hung in front of a public so he chose his
17:23
way of how he knows that he's going to die either
17:25
way he just gets to continue his control over
17:29
his own fate and i get that i just think the
17:33
other side of it is this isn't where he wanted
17:36
to end up i guess but i also think he doesn't
17:39
want to live in the new civilization that ross
17:44
was talking about so it's an interesting one
17:47
But I think we should do a so long for him. What
17:49
are your thoughts about Dutch? I think there's
17:53
there's multiple things. I don't know him enough.
17:56
We barely see him in the game besides what we
17:59
hear from other people. And I'm starting to question
18:01
how much of what other people are saying is true.
18:04
So I have some hesitancy. But we do know that
18:07
he left John for dead. He's definitely not a
18:11
mother respecter. I would say just to the mother.
18:16
side of the neutral spectrum i think he's a mother
18:20
too and the biggest thing for me is when nastas
18:24
mentions that his gang is pretty much made up
18:27
of young men from the reservation now a lot of
18:30
them died for this oh and like for what you know
18:35
is it just dutch's last last ditch effort to
18:38
get out alive to beat the system okay then he
18:41
just used people as his personal army essentially
18:46
I agree with you, mother****er. I get the appeal
18:49
of Dutch. Even still, and at least from John's
18:54
perspective, I get it. Yeah, I think John hates
18:57
him, but he also kind of represents freedom,
19:01
in a way. I don't... Okay, so here's my question,
19:06
like, from John's perspective. Would fighting
19:08
the Pinkertons with Dutch feel better than being
19:12
forced to fight Dutch by the Pinkertons? And
19:16
my follow -up to that is his family may be the
19:19
only thing keeping him from wondering this, from
19:21
asking himself this question. Who would he rather
19:25
be fighting here? Number two, I agree with you
19:28
that his family has a huge role in this, but
19:32
going back to number one, I think it depends
19:35
on what free will looks like. If he's fighting
19:37
with Dutch and he says, hey, Dutch, I'm actually
19:40
not comfortable with this. I'm going to sit this
19:41
one out. Does he have the ability to do that?
19:44
Like, is it his choice to fight the Pinkertons
19:47
or is Dutch forcing him? And from what I think,
19:51
it's that Dutch does a really good job of convincing
19:53
John. But ultimately, John makes a lot of the
19:57
decisions on his own, maybe versus. being forced
20:01
to do what you want without any free will so
20:04
i guess my answer is whatever side allows john
20:09
to make his own decision instead of being forced
20:11
to do things that's the better side and if it
20:14
means against the pinkertons then that's that's
20:17
it and that's the question because when i say
20:19
does he represent freedom in a way it's because
20:24
dutch had his own set of rules they weren't complying
20:28
with the civilization that ross was talking about
20:30
so there's freedom there but how much freedom
20:33
is there is it just constrained to dutch's idea
20:38
of civilization and i think that at the end of
20:42
the day his family is what drives him to make
20:45
his decisions abandoning that idea of what freedom
20:50
they had fighting against civilization you just
20:54
have to sacrifice that to not be, you know, being
20:59
hunted down. You know, you have to give one up
21:02
to survive in the other, I guess. Oh, gosh. Okay,
21:09
Ross. So John is down at the base of the mountain
21:13
looking at Dutch's dead body. Ross approaches
21:16
and uses John's gun to shoot him and says, looks
21:20
better in the report that way. Is it? because
21:24
that they had it maybe a deal in writing say
21:26
that if john captures dutch whether he's dead
21:31
or alive that relieves john of his wrongdoings
21:37
with the law like that clears it out or is it
21:40
that it just means that john killing him clarifies
21:44
the police didn't do it so it's no one's fault
21:46
it's a it's a bounty killing another man it's
21:49
all good so i guess which one is it do you think
21:53
I see it as, because we hear Ross reference,
21:57
I'm going to get a medal out of this when this
22:00
is all over. So I see it as him, if we can keep
22:04
using the nature reference, he's more likely
22:07
to get accolades if he uses one beast to kill
22:11
the other beast. I think it would demonstrate
22:14
that he has control over John. Because why bring
22:19
John into it at all if he's just going to shoot
22:21
him himself? Well, why even need to shoot him?
22:24
Like, we know he's dead for sure, so why do we
22:27
need that extra bullet? To prove that he was
22:30
able to control John into shooting someone he
22:33
loved. Yeah. Okay. Even though he didn't. Why
22:40
would Ross risk his life making this joke? I
22:43
am so done with Ross. At this point, I was so
22:46
mad. So John says... Where's my family? Can I
22:50
go see my family now? And Ross says, your wife
22:52
was killed in a prison riot last week. And John
22:56
just points the gun right at his head. And he's
22:58
like, I was only joking. They're at your farm.
23:00
I wish John was quicker with pulling the trigger.
23:04
What an idiot. Why would you? Like, why? So stupid.
23:09
Ross, just everything he does, I hate him. I
23:12
agree. I really hate him so much. From his mustache
23:15
to his hat. I hate all of it. John arrives home
23:19
and we meet Abigail. First reactions to her?
23:22
I like how normal this conversation between the
23:27
two of them are. She starts, like, smacking John,
23:30
but she's happy. Like, you know she's happy that
23:33
John's here. It just feels normal that that's
23:36
how I think a lot of people would have reacted.
23:39
Yeah, she's afraid and that's manifesting as
23:41
anger when she first meets him again because
23:45
she thinks that he might have gone back. to bill
23:48
and dutch and sort of abandoned them changing
23:51
their ways but after he assures her like no that's
23:55
not what happened it's over she is very relieved
24:00
so you can understand her reaction it comes across
24:03
as a little like what what why are you hitting
24:06
him at first yeah but when you get into the dialogue
24:09
you understand like she's just afraid and then
24:13
his son runs over and John's pretty happy to
24:17
see his son after kind of lost them both, right?
24:22
Yeah. And then it just like immediately kind
24:25
of returns back to like a normal family life.
24:27
And I think that's really sweet. And then Uncle
24:30
walks over. With his moldy beard. Well, dude,
24:35
clean that thing. So Uncle has not been picking
24:40
up the slack very well while they've been gone.
24:43
And they lost all the cattle. So in the morning,
24:45
John and Jack ride to McFarland Ranch to buy
24:48
some. John catches up with Drew and Bonnie. He
24:52
and Jack head out with their new herd of cattle.
24:55
Why do we have another cow mission? They want
25:00
to torture you one last time. It is great to
25:03
have that full circle to see John getting cattle
25:06
from the McFarlands because we saw in the beginning,
25:08
this is what the dream is. If I come out the
25:10
other side, I'll come back to grab some cattle.
25:14
And he does. I agree. It's nice to see that he's
25:17
gotten something out of this whole ordeal. He's
25:20
made friends and people he can trust, and that's
25:23
something I'm not sure he's ever really had.
25:27
They have to fight off some rustlers, but they
25:29
do make it back home with their cattle. And this
25:32
is when John walks around his property, and we
25:34
run into the strange man yet again up on a hill
25:37
overlooking his ranch. Hey, there's a beautiful
25:39
spot. Sure. What are you doing here? My accounts.
25:44
I'm an accountant. Is that so? In a way. Reactions
25:49
to this part of the conversation so far? I don't
25:52
know what being an accountant is, but how is
25:55
this guy traveling everywhere? You're an accountant.
25:57
You know what being an accountant is. I mean,
26:00
like, for him. I know. I'm kidding. This is not
26:05
any kind of accountant I've seen before who dresses
26:08
like a wannabe Abe Lincoln kind of dude. What's
26:12
your name? You know, it's the darnedest thing.
26:16
I can't remember. Tell me your damn name and
26:20
where you know me from. Well, I know you from
26:22
Mexico. I know you from back out west. All I
26:24
know you from all over. Tell me your name or
26:28
I won't be responsible for my actions. Oh, but
26:30
you will. You will be responsible. This is a
26:35
fine spot. See you around, cowboy. Damn you!
26:41
Yes. Many have. I want to start getting into
26:45
this, but I think we're going to save a lot of
26:47
our reactions and theories for this summary episode,
26:50
so we'll come back to it. Sometime later, John
26:54
and Abigail look back at their past and where
26:57
they are now. It's a very deep conversation until
27:00
they're interrupted by crows. I love that John
27:02
doesn't really care about the crows and is just
27:04
trying to eat the food out of the pot with his
27:06
fingers until Abigail makes him go deal with
27:08
them. And it's so weird to see John this flirty
27:11
that... We've only seen him being serious. So
27:15
John takes care of the crows by shooting like
27:17
60 of them. And then Abigail grills him about
27:20
Bonnie after receiving a telegram from her. Also,
27:24
how did John get fame from shooting crows on
27:30
his own property? Doesn't make sense. Anyway.
27:36
The telegram is asking for help. The county supply
27:38
of corn has been lost, and they need some from
27:41
John. Abigail's pretty suspicious, though. It's
27:44
really cute how jealous she is. Although I do
27:47
love how Abigail, despite being a little jealous
27:51
or suspicious, is like, well, you have to help
27:54
them. They saved your life. But he gets the wagon
27:56
ready to go, and then Abigail runs out last minute
27:59
to tag along. I have one, actually, I have a
28:02
couple notes from their drive on the way there.
28:05
The first one is when she's grilling John some
28:08
more about Bonnie. It's pretty good. When they're
28:25
talking about Bill and Dutch, I like how Abigail
28:28
reminds John that they left him there when John
28:31
starts to defend them. I think there's still
28:35
part of John where had he not been under the
28:38
pressure, he would have just left Dutch and Bill
28:41
alone. Maybe even side with them. But yeah, he
28:46
says when Dutch went crazy, Bill took it hard.
28:48
For a while, we all thought we found something
28:50
right, a better way to live, but it was just
28:52
a lie. So you can see why it'd be hard to turn
28:55
against them because it seems like they all wanted
28:58
the same thing. But Abigail says, about it being
29:02
a lie you saw it before they did you knew the
29:04
truth john and they hated you for it what happened
29:07
like what kind of truth did you see what pushed
29:10
him to want to leave bonnie and abigail meet
29:14
i like their their dynamic and the way they team
29:18
up on john and bonnie's not really threatening
29:20
to the point where abigail feels like she needs
29:23
to play or needs to be defensive about bonnie
29:27
she doesn't see her as a threat but i think that
29:30
shot in the end when they're leaving and Bonnie's
29:33
just out on the road that just it confirms that
29:36
Bonnie had a thing for John and Abigail was spot
29:39
on with her teasing afterwards that Bonnie had
29:42
feelings for him I know my notes like poor Bonnie
29:46
the way she's just hanging her head and like
29:48
swaying her feet in the dirt they head back to
29:54
the ranch and John says it's over talking about
29:59
They're past everything they've been through.
30:01
And Abigail says, do you really believe that?
30:03
And he responds, we have to. It's the only way
30:06
we'll ever have a future. The life we led, it
30:08
doesn't just go away, she says. It's never over.
30:13
I think Abigail's smart and John is, again, continues
30:17
to be naive that he thinks it could be truly
30:20
over. If I was John, I would have just backed
30:23
up my stuff and just left the farm and moved
30:25
somewhere else. are moved to Mexico. He has some
30:28
friends there. And some enemies, though. Yes.
30:32
But it's probably safer than being a sitting
30:34
duck in a farm where you know the government
30:38
knows where you are. I do like John's line, though,
30:41
of sometimes I think I was the stupid one for
30:44
believing I could get out. Maybe Dutch Bill and
30:46
Javier were just being honest with themselves.
30:49
I think there's some truth to that, at least
30:53
for those three, but not necessarily for John.
30:55
Because I do think that John wanted to change.
30:58
And then to follow it up, he says, maybe we can't
31:00
change, but we gotta try for Jack's sake. I like
31:04
that. I just personally, my own self, as a realist,
31:10
I don't think that you can continue to move forward
31:13
without frequently looking over your shoulder
31:16
if I went through what John went through. We've
31:18
seen it enough of John, how naive he is. That
31:22
it doesn't surprise me that he's being like this.
31:25
I just wish he could have done something. I know
31:28
the game already had his ending for him, but
31:31
I wish he would have been able to be more careful
31:33
and that could have changed how the game ends.
31:36
When I consider the ending of the game, I would
31:39
say he's not so much naive as just being hopeful.
31:45
But I think we'll get into that. We just need
31:48
the information at the end of the game. They
31:51
get back home the next day. John takes a very
31:54
reluctant Jack out hunting and Rufus helps his
31:57
hunt. Rufus is the best. Jack annoys me. Oh,
32:02
yeah. He's like, you left. You're going to leave
32:04
again. John is like, I didn't want to leave.
32:07
Yeah, they made me. So, yeah, Jack's very grumpy,
32:11
but he does end up enjoying himself. John forces
32:15
Uncle to help him herd the cattle out to pasture.
32:19
I forgot about this one. I thought we were done
32:21
with the cows. During which, some outlaws try
32:24
to rob a train, which scares the cattle. And
32:27
John takes down the criminals and is thanked
32:29
by the engineer and the passengers. Can we talk
32:32
about how stupid the cattle is to just launch
32:36
themselves at a moving train? They want to be
32:39
here even less than I did playing that. But the
32:42
funny thing, it's kind of hilarious where they
32:45
crash into the train, fall over, and then just...
32:47
pop they just pop back up then they're fine they're
32:50
fine you know only hurt a little bit also how
32:55
ironic that john is now taking down atlas at
32:59
a robbing trains when almost certainly that's
33:02
exactly what he used to do and it's why it makes
33:06
him so good at taking them down because he knows
33:08
how they think okay so after the cows John checks
33:14
back in with Jack. He helps him improve his shooting.
33:17
Jack is in a mood. Of course. John then says
33:22
that wolves have been after the herd, so they
33:24
leave to go hunt them down. So after this, Jack's
33:27
all amped up again. He's like, I could go kill
33:29
a bear. And John is like, no, you can't. Never
33:33
leave the ranch without checking in with me.
33:35
But lo and behold, the next day, Uncle runs up
33:38
to John and he's like, Jack left to go track
33:40
down a grizzly bear. Good boy Rufus locates Jack,
33:44
who's hiding behind a rock with a bear nearby.
33:46
I believe the bear has killed his horse, so he's
33:49
kind of stuck. He's kind of cornered. John kills
33:51
the bear and the two of them start riding back
33:54
home. John is grilling Jack. He's like, you should
33:58
know better. I told you not to do this. What
34:01
were you thinking? And then Jack's like, I'm
34:04
not stupid in that annoying teenage way. And
34:07
John's like, you could have fooled me. I'm not
34:10
stupid. You could have fooled me. I'm just waiting
34:13
for a chance to use that. Yeah. After this, after
34:17
Jack is safely back home, Uncle and John break
34:20
some wild horses. Oh, Uncle. Every time. Well,
34:26
I think actually he only says it the last time
34:28
John breaks a horse. But he's like, use your
34:31
knees, young woman. And he says it like every
34:34
five seconds, a total of like five or six times.
34:37
And it's so funny. And it's just in the background.
34:41
You don't even notice it unless you're listening,
34:44
actively listening. And it's pretty darn good.
34:48
Well, that's all I had for scene five. You have
34:51
anything else? Nope. All right. Final scene of
34:55
the game. So John finds Jack working in the barn
34:58
and they're having a chat. They talk about writing
35:02
a book. And I think kind of like about John changing.
35:06
And Jack is like, I could name my book The Day
35:09
John Marston Stopped Shooting, which I just think
35:13
is the coldest, hardest line they could have
35:17
dropped in right here. And then obviously people
35:22
know where we're going with this, but another
35:24
line, they're talking about airplanes. And Jack
35:27
says, one of those machines can turn men into
35:29
angels. And John says, in a thinking, brooding
35:33
manner. One of them machines can turn men into
35:36
angels. And I'm like, in this instance, is that
35:40
machine a gun? A Gatlin gun specifically? So
35:45
Uncle's looking through binoculars and calls
35:48
out for John. John takes a look and does not
35:52
like whatever he sees. He tells Jack, run inside
35:55
and lock the doors. And then he hugs Jack. A
35:58
nice long hug. And I think he knows what's coming
36:01
at this point. I think so too. And I'm wondering,
36:04
would it have been better for John to tell Jack
36:08
what's going on or not? I don't think he sees
36:11
that there's time. Okay. But I can't say for
36:14
sure. Then he says to Uncle, well, old man, looks
36:18
like things is about to be settled once and for
36:20
all. And a shootout begins. The army has been
36:23
sent to attack John. That's crazy. So much people
36:27
for just one man. Jack soon refuses to stay put
36:31
inside anymore and picks up a gun. At this point,
36:34
all three men are outside shooting and this is
36:36
when Uncle gets shot and dies. I was not expecting
36:39
that. With his last breaths, he says, You take
36:42
Jack and Abby. Take them and don't worry about
36:46
me. So long for Uncle, right? Yeah. He's a little
36:50
crotchety, but I think his heart is in the right
36:52
place. Mm -hmm. i'd say between neutral and mother
36:57
respecter there wasn't he was very lazy not very
37:00
helpful i was just gonna say maybe he's a lazy
37:04
mother respecter yeah i think that's what it
37:07
is a lazy mother respecter doesn't move anything
37:10
forward but he died fighting for john's family
37:13
yeah he cares about them but he doesn't want
37:17
to work very hard well john listens to uncle
37:22
and gets his family to the barn and on a horse.
37:26
He says, I'll catch up. Then they exchange I
37:30
love you's and they ride away. And then look
37:33
on John's face though. My feelings watching this.
37:37
I knew that there's a second game had no context
37:40
for what it would be. So I was thinking like,
37:44
okay, he's not going to die because there's a
37:46
second game and he's going to be the lead. I'm
37:48
pretty sure he's not going to die. And then I
37:50
saw the look on his face and I'm like, oh crap.
37:52
I don't know if he's going to make it. He stares
37:55
after them for only a moment, then turns to the
37:58
door. Peeking out, he sees a lineup of men aimed
38:02
right at him. With a sigh, he throws open the
38:05
doors, shoots as many as he can, which for me,
38:07
not very many because I don't use Deadeye. So
38:11
ruined the cinematic a little bit there. My apologies.
38:14
So he shoots as many men as he can before taking
38:17
an ungodly amount of bullets. A bit overkill,
38:20
right? Is there a way in the game to avoid John
38:27
dying? Like, if you're really good at Deadeye,
38:30
do you think you could have just killed them
38:32
all? Many have tried. None have succeeded. In
38:36
this part, John, knowing what was waiting for
38:39
him on the other side, he should have just walked
38:42
around and take a sneak attack or something.
38:47
I know. My only thing, and we'll talk about this
38:49
later because this is also a summary topic, but
38:51
my only line that I'll leave you with for your
38:53
question is, does he know the only freedom for
38:56
his family is his death? Ooh, let me write some
39:00
notes. Not gonna lie, I was devastated watching
39:05
this scene. I was not expecting that because
39:08
part of me thought he was going to be the main
39:11
character in Red Dead Redemption 2 because I
39:14
didn't. know anything about it i thought there
39:16
were six games i was so wrong about that but
39:21
i was thinking that oh he's gonna be in the next
39:23
four games or so i thought it was gonna be a
39:26
situation that i never corrected you i know which
39:31
is making it things worse because it hit me hard
39:33
because i did not expect this to end this way
39:36
i wanted it to hit you hard though imagine being
39:39
13 14 year old leah not only did you play through
39:43
the game you also did all the stranger missions
39:45
you spent like two or three times longer with
39:48
john and then this happens and this is shortened
39:52
to our gameplay but i was wondering why after
39:56
he catches or kills dutch or forces dutch to
40:00
die there's still an hour of gameplay left and
40:03
i was confused and i was like oh we're gonna
40:04
get a happily ever after but i'm like but that's
40:06
still only like 15 minutes of the game we still
40:08
got 45 i just didn't know what was waiting for
40:11
me on the other side because i was confident
40:12
he was going to survive for the next game and
40:14
i was so wrong I know, because you don't really
40:17
trust the ending when we're at Dutch. We're like,
40:20
this doesn't feel right. And when I played it
40:23
for the first time, I thought he was going to
40:24
get back to his ranch and his family was going
40:26
to be dead. We've been having this conversation
40:29
about how worried I was whether or not Abigail
40:32
and Jack were going to survive. Well, first of
40:38
all, I have to say f***ing Ross. I hate him.
40:40
But I think we got to do a so long for John.
40:44
Hands down, Mother Respecter, no need to explain.
40:47
I think it's pretty obvious. Mother Respecter,
40:51
yeah, he's got a troubled past, but he was brought
40:55
into that gang as a child. What else did he know?
40:58
You know, he didn't know a whole lot else, and
41:00
he still made the effort to turn his life around,
41:04
which, isn't that what we want criminals to do?
41:07
I think he was a little messed up by what happened
41:10
in the gang, and he did some messed up things,
41:12
but... At the end of the day, he was trying to
41:14
repay for all of that. And that's more than a
41:18
lot of people do. So I think he has to be a mother
41:21
respecter. I'm trying to hold back on my summary
41:24
stuff. I'm trying to keep my mouth shut because
41:27
I keep staring at it in my notes. And I'm like,
41:30
can't say that. So I'm going to let you cue us
41:35
to the next section. Okay. So we then cut to
41:39
Abigail and Jack who heard the gunshots and decide
41:42
to race back, which thank you. I'm so glad they
41:45
went back. Me too. It would have hurt me even
41:48
more if Jack was like, no, we got to listen to
41:51
what dad says. The one and only time he actually
41:53
listens to what his dad says. And I'm glad he
41:56
disobeys and brings his mom and him back, which
42:00
still continues to hurt me. Yep. And they don't
42:03
like what they find when they get there. But.
42:06
They bury him sometime later above the ranch.
42:10
And should I just keep going? Keep going. To
42:13
the time jump? Mm -hmm. We cut to Jack. He's
42:16
grown up now. He looks at his father's grave,
42:19
then turns and walks off. And this is when we
42:22
see that Abigail has a grave, too. It's dated
42:25
1914, so it's been three years or so. Three years
42:29
is not enough time to go Jack looking from blonde
42:32
hair to... black hair i think he now has definitely
42:36
was never blonde wait hold on i don't know why
42:41
i keep imagining jack as blonde oh it was dark
42:45
i don't know why i know it was dark but i don't
42:47
know why i kept imagining him as blonde yeah
42:50
okay but that's definitely not google anything
42:52
red dead redemption related okay okay sounds
42:54
good you're gonna get spoilers i closed it real
42:58
quick but why does jack look mexican he looks
43:01
really similar to reyes It's funny you say this,
43:05
but it's weird that you bring up Reyes because
43:07
people have a theory that he's actually Javier's
43:11
son, but that theory's pretty much been debunked
43:14
based on the timelines of when people joined
43:17
the gang. So it's pretty well and confirmed that
43:20
he is John's son. He rides to Blackwater where
43:23
he finds a man who looks like a government agent.
43:26
He questions him about the whereabouts of Edgar
43:29
Ross. The man responds, he won himself a chest
43:33
full of medals. I think he went and retired about
43:35
a year ago. Last he heard, he and his wife were
43:38
at Lake Don Julio. I think I know where this
43:41
is going, Jack. I think I know what you want
43:43
to do. So Jack finds Ross's wife at the lake
43:47
cabin. She tells him that he and his brother
43:49
went hunting on the river in Mexico. She says
43:53
he's a sensitive man. And Jack responds, I'm
43:56
sure your husband will be just fine. Ross's wife?
44:00
Is she dumb? Yes. Okay, so we're back in Mexico.
44:07
Jack finds Ross. I love this. Ross says, do I
44:13
know you? Which really, I feel like is a tie
44:17
to the Stranger Mission. So we'll react to that
44:20
in the summary. My name is Jack Marston. You
44:25
knew my father. I see. I remember your father.
44:34
I've come for you, Ross. And you, boy, have sure
44:41
shit value. You killed my father. Your father
44:46
killed himself with the life he lived. Sure.
44:50
Except that he wasn't living that life anymore.
44:54
And Ross knew he wanted out. So we duel him.
44:58
jack kills him so satisfying so satisfying but
45:03
we have to talk about the way jack looks at the
45:07
gun my thought is that that's probably the same
45:11
gun that killed dutch that ross used and i'm
45:16
thinking that that whole report i don't know
45:19
how ross reported it but saying that maybe this
45:21
was the murder weapon and therefore john should
45:23
die because he shouldn't have killed him It's
45:26
going to be that murder weapon in that report.
45:28
It's the same thing that's going to end Ross.
45:31
What he started to end John's life is the same
45:35
weapon that ends his life. I don't know if that
45:36
makes sense. It does. I went a different route.
45:40
Oh, okay. So I have two questions. Well, my first
45:44
question is, is Jack an outlaw now? Because he
45:47
looks at this gun like it stirs something within
45:51
him, right? After he shoots this guy. But then...
45:54
I think deeper about it, and I remember on one
45:57
of the hunting trips he went on with John, he
46:00
says, well, I love it, because he's like, can
46:02
I ask you a question? John's like, sure. Are
46:05
you a murderer? And John's like, what? And so
46:24
when he's looking at the gun, I see it two ways.
46:28
As what I said, he's either an outlaw now because
46:32
he realized, I kind of liked doing that. Or he's
46:36
pondering what John said and thinking, did I
46:39
kill him or did I murder him? Because he's kind
46:43
of deserving of being killed, right? And this
46:47
is probably Jack's first kill. And I think that
46:49
he now understands what John meant when he was
46:52
saying that. That's a lot more poetic than what
46:55
I came up with. I mean, now that you say it,
46:59
though, my idea of the same weapon that ended
47:02
John is a weapon that ends Ross, who started
47:07
everything. It makes sense to me. And then taking
47:11
also into consideration that Jack probably understands
47:16
what his dad was saying. It's not. murder it's
47:21
revenge slash killing and i can justify that
47:25
i also like um taking yours a little bit different
47:30
john's son who looks like him except for the
47:33
facial hair wearing john's hat john's gun belt
47:38
his holster using john's gun to kill ross it's
47:42
kind of poetic in that way where it's like not
47:45
necessarily john killed ross but Because John
47:49
changed his ways, everything he left behind is
47:54
what ends up biting Ross in the ass. And so it's
47:57
kind of like, even though Ross was the good guy,
48:00
the police officer, someone changing their ways
48:04
to become good ultimately takes down someone
48:07
using good to justify their evil actions. Yeah,
48:13
I feel like we circled back around it for both.
48:16
That storyline about the gun and also the quick
48:20
one -two line about explaining the difference
48:23
between murder and killing someone. This game
48:27
drops so many quotes that come back later, but
48:30
you have to be looking like we are to really
48:34
feel their full impact, or you have to play the
48:37
game multiple times. And you said so, too, while
48:40
watching this in person. It goes back to why
48:44
we're doing this podcast is you're picking up
48:47
on things that you may have not already seen
48:50
because you're watching it with me, with my sort
48:54
of lens where I'm still confused. Like I watched
48:57
this without knowing that John was going to be
49:00
dead. And so everything I'm seeing is in a totally
49:03
different light. And that's why I love doing
49:06
the summary episodes because we have time to.
49:09
react and absorb everything and then we ask each
49:12
other questions that make you go back and look
49:15
at things in a different perspective and i'm
49:18
really excited for next week yeah oh man yeah
49:22
i'm like i want to say some more stuff but i
49:25
don't want to because i just need to shut up
49:28
and not ruin our summary episode for either of
49:32
us i feel so horrible saying i'm glad that you
49:35
are like sad and in pain at this ending but i
49:39
so am i'm still not quite over it and i still
49:43
don't know how i feel about it because i'm still
49:45
a bit in shock i'm not over it either it makes
49:48
you feel better and it's been 14 years for you
49:51
i'll never be over it with that i'm gonna call
49:57
it audacity on one three two one thank you for
50:01
listening and don't forget to send in any questions
50:03
comments or game suggestions You can find all
50:05
our contact info on our website, replayreviewspod
50:08
.com, or contact us directly through our site.
50:10
Did we completely miss something? Are we way
50:13
off the mark? Or do you just want us to take
50:14
a deeper look at anything from the game? We'll
50:17
tackle any topics you all want to hear in our
50:19
season wrap -up episode. We also have a Reddit
50:21
where we discuss anything we're curious about.
50:23
Go take a look and let us know what you're thinking.
50:26
Our theme music is Condemned by Eggie Toast.
50:28
They'll play you out and we'll be back next week
50:30
with the summary episode.