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Katie Woolf spoke with Police Association President Paul McCue on taking Police off the NT Borders · 360 with Katie Woolf

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Well, as we know, the Melbourne hotspot declaration will be
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: removed today and the Northern Territory Police Association has called
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: for police to be removed from some remote border checkpoints
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: in an effort to gain respite. And you'll leave now.
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: Joining me on the line is the president of the
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  Speaker 1: Police Association, Paul McHugh. Good morning, Good morning, Katie, Paul,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: talk us through. I mean, we know that those borders
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: are opening today and there are no more hotspots. Should
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: police be pulled from some of those those border locations?
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously, you know it's had a huge impact on policing,
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  Speaker 2: in the capability to starf front line being out on
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  Speaker 2: the borders for such a long period of time, and
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  Speaker 2: we've got many of those really remote locations, for example
• 0:49
  Speaker 2: up along the Wa border. You know. Now we all
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: know we've questioned for some time the need to be
• 0:55
  Speaker 2: on those sorts of locations given the hard border stance
• 0:59
  Speaker 2: at w way have taken for that period of time.
• 1:01
  Speaker 2: So with hotspot declarations being lifted today, you know, it's
• 1:05
  Speaker 2: certainly a good opportunity perhaps to know urgently review the
• 1:09
  Speaker 2: need to be on some of those really remote areas
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  Speaker 2: which are taking up critical resourcing capability which could be
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  Speaker 2: better used in town.
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  Speaker 1: Now, which borders or which locations are we talking about, Paul.
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: Well, there's quite a few smaller ones. Obviously we know
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  Speaker 2: the major arterial roads into the territory and you know
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  Speaker 2: we're not suggesting perhaps of this day's day be lifted,
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  Speaker 2: and we know the reasons behind that. But there are
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  Speaker 2: many such as on the Tannami, perhaps out on the
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  Speaker 2: Plenty Highway, the Mulga Park Road down there, Colera and
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  Speaker 2: Curtain Springs. You know, perhaps those sorts of locations which
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: are you know, feedback we receive is certainly often only
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  Speaker 2: seeing four or five cars a day or mine trucks
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  Speaker 2: over the TANNAMAI So the real need, you've got to question,
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: the need to keep you fully swarm police officers out
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: those locations when we're so critically short in town areas
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  Speaker 2: such as Alice Springs and Darwin.
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and we'll talk more about how it is impacting
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  Speaker 1: us in town in a moment, But how many police
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  Speaker 1: officers are on some of those borders, where as you've said,
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  Speaker 1: you know, anecdotally sometimes only five people going through those
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  Speaker 1: checkpoints in a day.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, often there there's at least two police officers
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  Speaker 2: on those locations on twelve hour shifts. So you've got
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  Speaker 2: you know, up to four police officers on every one
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  Speaker 2: of those locations rotating through, you know, which cannot be
• 2:34
  Speaker 2: deployed in any other location for quite a period of time,
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  Speaker 2: sometimes going for four or five days or a week
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: or even longer. And you know, when you're talking you know,
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  Speaker 2: two or three or four of those border locations, there's
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  Speaker 2: a lot of police that are not available to go elsewhere.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Paul, how are police feeling, firstly on those borders at
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: the moment.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously, you know, the weather's hit extreme now, hasn't it.
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: You know, we're talking, you know, forty degrees in some
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: of these locations. We've got the wet season upon us.
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  Speaker 2: Now we've been frustrated with the delays from government and
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  Speaker 2: getting you know, some decent shade structures in some of
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  Speaker 2: those locations, just basic facilities for our members to be
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  Speaker 2: comfortable in. So they've been frustrated, and I think they're
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  Speaker 2: also frustrated now with the somewhat ad hoc approach at
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: times to getting rostered in those locations. And you know,
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  Speaker 2: we want to make sure if the government's wanting police
• 3:30
  Speaker 2: to stay out and these locations for an extended period.
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  Speaker 2: Let's get a decent plan in place to make sure members'
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  Speaker 2: lives aren't there and impacted adversely as they have been
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: in recent times.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Now, you mentioned before the impact that this is having
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: on the broader community when it comes to fighting crime.
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  Speaker 1: You specifically pointed out Alice Springs is one of those
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: locations where it's having an impact. Why and how is
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: it having an impact on the broader community having those
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: offices on borders.
• 4:01
  Speaker 2: Well, I think you know what the community I'm sure
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  Speaker 2: expect is is if they really need police, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: they call up for police and an urgent circumstance so
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: they know police are around the corner. And you know
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: those police that are out there at the moment doing
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  Speaker 2: that role in the major centers of Alice, Darwin, Catherine Tenant, etc.
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  Speaker 2: You know, they're doing an unbelievable job in actually getting
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  Speaker 2: to those jobs as quickly as they can with the
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  Speaker 2: limited resources they've got. And it is not uncommon and
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  Speaker 2: we know this for a fact. There are several overtime
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: techs that go out every single day just to simply
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  Speaker 2: fill a basic roster and there are times, and we've
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  Speaker 2: spoken about this before, one or two vans per shift
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  Speaker 2: on a twelve hour shift is simply not enough, and
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  Speaker 2: of course that heightens the risk, so not only those officers,
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  Speaker 2: but of course to the community as well, and we
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  Speaker 2: want to make sure we've got the police in the
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  Speaker 2: right spots and now the time to have a look
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  Speaker 2: at that.
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  Speaker 1: So in some instances, as you've just said, there can
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: be two vans on on per shift, but if one
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: of those vans gets called out to an incident, then realistically,
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  Speaker 1: i mean, are we talking how many police are we
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  Speaker 1: talking about sort of being able to respond to other
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: things that could arise.
• 5:13
  Speaker 2: Well, obviously you've got your general duties policing, and that's
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: what we're talking about when we talk about our general
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: response capability on the front line. But there are also
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  Speaker 2: generally other police vehicles driving around. It might be crime members,
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  Speaker 2: it might be other sections of the police force, but
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  Speaker 2: of course they're not generally tasked to those immediate requests
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  Speaker 2: for the public to attend. So in the emergency situations,
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  Speaker 2: of course they would be. But what we don't want
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  Speaker 2: to see is those general duties officers heavily impacted with
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  Speaker 2: the burden of being the only van or one of
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  Speaker 2: only two vans on the road for a twelve hour shift,
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  Speaker 2: and often at times an arrest can keep a vent
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  Speaker 2: off the road for three or four or five hours,
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  Speaker 2: depending on the complexity involved. You know, that's a real
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: concern from our point of view in terms of their
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: health and safety.
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  Speaker 1: So, Paul, from your perspective, should we really immediately be
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: pulling our police officers from some of those border control
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  Speaker 1: areas that are only having a few vehicles go through
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  Speaker 1: those spots each day.
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  Speaker 2: Look, I've no doubt that should be urgently looked at,
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  Speaker 2: And I mean we don't want to. I'm not trying
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: to diminish the importance of making sure we keep this
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  Speaker 2: deadly virus out of our community up here. But there
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  Speaker 2: is technology we can use automated number plate recognition software
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  Speaker 2: which could be used in some of those locations to
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  Speaker 2: monitor those vehicles coming across the border. But you know,
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  Speaker 2: right now, I see the cases that are brought into
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  Speaker 2: the territory right now, generally from the flights coming from
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  Speaker 2: overseas being repatriated in Howard Springs facility rather than those
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  Speaker 2: really really remote border locations. And I think you've got
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  Speaker 2: to have a look at that and say is that
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  Speaker 2: the best use of our resource.
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: Well, just finally, one of the things that's been raised
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: with us on a couple of occasions over the last
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: couple of weeks is whether police do exit interviews when
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: they finish up with the force. Is that something that
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  Speaker 1: you understand does or doesn't happen.
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I think there's a I guess a request
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  Speaker 2: put in. Generally, if somebody is resigning, there's often a
• 7:21
  Speaker 2: request through their officer in charge or their immediate supervisor
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  Speaker 2: to to have a sit down discussion. But I'm not
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: sure it's a it's certainly not compulsory, and it's certainly
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  Speaker 2: up to the individual as to whether they want to
• 7:34
  Speaker 2: disclose their reasons for leaving. But it's certainly something. You know,
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  Speaker 2: we're generally notified when that's the case, and we're making
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  Speaker 2: our own inquiries as to why that's the case. And obviously,
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  Speaker 2: we with the high attrition rate at the moment, we
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  Speaker 2: really need to know the reasons behind that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, do you reckon that there should be a more
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  Speaker 1: formal process in terms of police officers actually doing a
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  Speaker 1: formal exit interview.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, we certainly would like to see that. Of course,
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: it's really up to the individual and you can't force
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  Speaker 2: somebody to always disclose those reasons. But I think it's
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  Speaker 2: really important to know the genuine reasons why somebody is
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  Speaker 2: leaving or why they're applying to leave, and the reasons
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  Speaker 2: behind that and that they're they're the key points from
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  Speaker 2: our perspective and something we're certainly following up well.
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  Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul McHugh. We always appreciate your time.
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  Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having a chat with me this morning.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: Thanks Katie, thank you. You are listening to Mix one
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  Speaker 1: oh four point nine's three p sixty