Latest / The Parenting Podcast / Chats with Cheryl: What Kids Don’t Know They Don’t Know—And How We Can Help | Ep. 154

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Chats with Cheryl: What Kids Don’t Know They Don’t Know—And How We Can Help | Ep. 154 · The Parenting Podcast

• 0:06
  Some parenting questions just don't have a quick fix answer.
• 0:11
  And today on the Parenting Podcast, we're talking about one of them.
• 0:15
  I'm Cheryl Lang, and Michelle joins me in the studio, and she's asking, how do we help our kids notice things they just don't seem to pick up on?
• 0:25
  How much do we guide?
• 0:27
  How much do we just let them figure it out?
• 0:30
  And where's the balance?
• 0:32
  I'm glad you're here.
• 0:34
  Let's unpack this together and see what we discovered.
• 0:46
  Cheryl: Listeners, I'm really excited because I have one of TPP's friends and one of my friends back in the studio today, Michelle Johnson.
• 0:55
  Cheryl: Welcome back.
• 0:56
  Cheryl: Oh,
• 0:56
  michelle: I'm so glad to be here.
• 0:57
  michelle: This is neat to be back.
• 0:59
  michelle: Just me and you today.
• 1:00
  Cheryl: Yes.
• 1:01
  Cheryl: It's just us.
• 1:01
  Cheryl: And, you know, we never get enough time just to talk.
• 1:05
  michelle: I know.
• 1:06
  michelle: I love getting together with you, especially when I get to go to your house and just sit on your couch.
• 1:12
  Cheryl: Let's just pretend that's what we're doing.
• 1:15
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 1:16
  Cheryl: So what would you like to talk about today?
• 1:19
  michelle: Okay.
• 1:19
  michelle: So I will have to share that.
• 1:21
  michelle: Um, I had a lot of questions that popped up in my head and I was trying to wrestle with what do I really want to hone this down to?
• 1:28
  michelle: Because there are so many things that I feel like we could talk about, go in different directions.
• 1:33
  michelle: So when I thought about it more, I realized that I wanted to discuss with you and ask you about, um, I don't really know how to articulate it, so you'll have to help me.
• 1:46
  Cheryl: Sure.
• 1:46
  Cheryl: just kind of paint a picture for me.
• 1:48
  Cheryl: Kind of talk about whatever it is.
• 1:50
  michelle: Okay, so I'm noticing in my family, but also in other families, so this isn't just unique to my family.
• 1:57
  michelle: Um, these different scenarios that happen across all ages.
• 2:01
  michelle: Yeah, but um, so you're talking about life Kind of just how a child may interact in a social setting
• 2:12
  Cheryl: mm hmm
• 2:12
  michelle: and may not pick up on certain social cues or Have a situation that they are a part of where they need to dress a certain way and they aren't aware of what exactly would be appropriate.
• 2:28
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 2:30
  michelle: Just one of my kiddos that had a basketball practice to go to, younger child, and, um, was all dressed and ready to go.
• 2:38
  michelle: And I look at them and I realize, oh, you are very mismatched here.
• 2:43
  michelle: We have really good basketball shorts on, basketball shoes, but a very, very nice sweater.
• 2:51
  michelle: So I'm trying to figure out, like, how to help a child be more aware of what's around them and who they are, if that makes any sense.
• 3:01
  Cheryl: Yeah,, really, Michelle?
• 3:03
  Cheryl: This is so many different levels on this.
• 3:05
  Cheryl: This is a great.
• 3:06
  Cheryl: I know.
• 3:06
  Cheryl: It is a little
• 3:07
  michelle: complicated.
• 3:08
  Cheryl: But I can understand because I was identifying with all those kinds of things in my life
• 3:13
  with
• 3:13
  Cheryl: my children.
• 3:15
  Cheryl: Like what you're doing.
• 3:16
  Cheryl: You're talking about individual events But you're looking at the big picture.
• 3:22
  Cheryl: Let's break it down a little bit Let's go to the basketball outfit.
• 3:26
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 3:26
  Cheryl: Would you say that's a typical thing that you see this kind of pattern?
• 3:32
  Cheryl: Or is that kind of standing out as different?
• 3:35
  michelle: No.
• 3:36
  michelle: I've, I've seen it a few times.
• 3:38
  michelle: but it is.
• 3:39
  michelle: An example of something that would show a child that may not grasp what's acceptable.
• 3:46
  Cheryl: Which is maturity.
• 3:48
  Cheryl: You just described a really mature person is the person who is accurately aware of themselves and others.
• 3:56
  Cheryl: And the situation and what's appropriate, Michelle part of it is, over the years when I met with parents and we're processing things, everybody would like the bottom line answer, right?
• 4:08
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:08
  Cheryl: What's the one thing that I can fix this with?
• 4:10
  Cheryl: And sometimes there's a little answer on that.
• 4:13
  Cheryl: But a lot of times, I've said it before, we see Parenting as events, rather than a process.
• 4:21
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:21
  Cheryl: And so maturity is very much a process.
• 4:25
  But
• 4:25
  Cheryl: it's, events are involved.
• 4:27
  Cheryl: Right.
• 4:27
  Cheryl: and so if it's more of a pattern, I think there are things we could do to shape it.
• 4:35
  Cheryl: And of course, I don't have the answer, but these are just my thoughts when you're saying this.
• 4:39
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 4:40
  Cheryl: First thing I would say is that I think we need to value protecting their self esteem and their self worth over getting the right outfit.
• 4:49
  Cheryl: Right Of course.! Mm-hmm let's process together a little bit slowing down.
• 4:56
  Cheryl: To look at the situation instead of and reacting to do something quickly we say here all the time, margin.
• 5:06
  Cheryl: And so I would recommend first, try as a pattern in your life and your family, build in margin.
• 5:14
  Cheryl: And sometimes it just isn't there like you have to pick them up from school or class and go directly to basketball practice and everything is bam, bam, bam, bam.
• 5:24
  michelle: That's true.
• 5:25
  michelle: You have other children in the family, you're trying to get them dressed as well.
• 5:28
  Cheryl: Yes Let's say actually that this is typical, that they aren't aware of appropriate clothes for the circumstances.
• 5:38
  michelle: Uh huh.
• 5:38
  Cheryl: Mm hmm.
• 5:39
  Cheryl: the speedy story is, sweetheart, let's bring a t shirt because I think you might be hot wearing the sweater, and then you exchange the sweater out later and just make it low key.
• 5:49
  Cheryl: But if you realize they're not being aware of the circumstance.
• 5:53
  Cheryl: Remember.
• 5:54
  Cheryl: We deal with it when it's the issue, we talk about it when it's not.
• 5:58
  Cheryl: You
• 5:58
  michelle: always say that.
• 5:59
  michelle: Okay.
• 5:59
  michelle: It's so helpful.
• 6:00
  Cheryl: And I wish I always had done that, but that's going to take margin and timing on my part.
• 6:06
  Cheryl: And then when it's not the issue, start looking for times to talk about, to raise their awareness.
• 6:13
  Cheryl: Mm
• 6:13
  hmm.
• 6:14
  Cheryl: Because.
• 6:16
  Cheryl: Some people have built in radars, and in my children, in my own life, some just have an awareness around them.
• 6:25
  Cheryl: That's
• 6:25
  michelle: what my other question is.
• 6:27
  michelle: Is there a different level according to each child?
• 6:30
  michelle: It sounds like there is.
• 6:32
  michelle: Some people
• 6:33
  Cheryl: naturally have it.
• 6:35
  Cheryl: They just naturally are more aware.
• 6:37
  Cheryl: Um, we're just getting to so many things, but I think it's related.
• 6:41
  Cheryl: For example, have you ever heard the Myers Briggs personality assessment, ISTJ and ENFP, those kind of things.
• 6:49
  Cheryl: Okay, we don't want to put anybody in a box, but one of the things I've seen in that is like the The ESS for sensory and the N for intuitive on that scale that is how someone receives input to make their decision.
• 7:03
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 7:03
  Cheryl: One is not better than the other.
• 7:04
  Cheryl: It just shows you the beautiful rainbow of diversity of how God makes people.
• 7:09
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 7:10
  Cheryl: And so the S is someone who.
• 7:12
  Cheryl: Draws their awareness of the world from what they perceive through their senses as they're going through life.
• 7:20
  Cheryl: What does S stand for?
• 7:21
  Cheryl: S is sensing.
• 7:22
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 7:22
  Cheryl: Yes, I have heard of that.
• 7:23
  Cheryl: And I tend to be very strong sensing, certainly in my, The younger years, I draw from my surroundings.
• 7:30
  michelle: Yes,
• 7:30
  Cheryl: I am too.
• 7:31
  Cheryl: Okay, so what I see, what I hear.
• 7:34
  Cheryl: In fact, it's kind of bad because I might be talking to you right here.
• 7:38
  Cheryl: And if, there were a sticker on the wall and it fell off I would be distracted by it because that's something moving in my vision or I hear something and I get distracted from what I'm actually talking about.
• 7:52
  Cheryl: And so I'm pulling in from my circumstances particularly what I see, hear, touch, rather than kind of this ethereal world.
• 8:03
  Cheryl: I'm drawing input from my senses and so a child who's more aware.
• 8:08
  Cheryl: In their senses, might be aware of what the temperature is, timing, um, even how others are reacting to you.
• 8:19
  Cheryl: you may tend to be seeing and sensing changes in people's facial response to you.
• 8:26
  michelle: That makes so much more sense,
• 8:28
  Cheryl: So that might be kind of some of the other situations with groups, social awareness, social cues, they're not picking up on it because they're not so senses oriented Now the negative of that, Michelle, is picking up too much I'm watching for how you,
• 8:46
  michelle: Oh, for sure.
• 8:46
  michelle: You know me well.
• 8:48
  michelle: Oh, me too.
• 8:49
  michelle: I'm watching
• 8:49
  Cheryl: for how someone reacts to me on their face.
• 8:53
  Okay.
• 8:53
  Cheryl: Or that they turned away from me.
• 8:55
  Cheryl: All of those things I may be pulling too much from my environment.
• 9:01
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 9:01
  Cheryl: Because I'm relying on that too much.
• 9:03
  Cheryl: So what would the other
• 9:04
  michelle: way be like??
• 9:06
  Cheryl: Well, they're not pulling their awareness from the physical cues and world around them.
• 9:12
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 9:12
  Cheryl: But more from.
• 9:16
  Cheryl: Intuitiveness, like the whole unseen world that really exists.
• 9:20
  Cheryl: Okay, and I'll give you a good example.
• 9:22
  Cheryl: Bill was very high on the intuitive and I, like I said, was very high on the sensory.
• 9:30
  Cheryl: And Cause a lot of conversations, and also there was conflict because I would see things so differently he's very logical but he pulled from this world of ideas the more intuitive world.
• 9:44
  Cheryl: I really love the fact that we were different because we influence one another and we kind of brought balance into our life And it was one of the best things in my life to be mentored by him to not just ask well, what can we see or touch that there's another viewpoint that is real.
• 10:05
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 10:06
  Cheryl: it's a long way around.
• 10:07
  Cheryl: That's good to look at your children.
• 10:11
  Cheryl: And particularly, you said, you're more of a pull from your senses.
• 10:15
  Cheryl: I'm definitely a sensing person.
• 10:17
  Cheryl: And that gives us a bias, because, of course, that's my way of seeing the world, right?
• 10:22
  michelle: It's true.
• 10:23
  michelle: It is hard to understand when you don't have that, that other side of things where you don't naturally see that other way of looking at life.
• 10:31
  Cheryl: Look at your children.
• 10:32
  Cheryl: Do they tend to pull from more of the intuitive world, rather than Like kind of grounded in their physical senses Probably.
• 10:41
  Cheryl: It's an input, okay?
• 10:43
  Cheryl: And if they're getting their input from this thought.
• 10:47
  Cheryl: Idea, creative world.
• 10:50
  Cheryl: Think of the absent minded professor or the really creative artist that's coming up with something that I would never think to say or do because they're pulling from something that I'm not tapped into.
• 11:05
  Cheryl: So I would want to be sensitive to that and then maybe be aware they need a little help a little bit more with their surroundings.
• 11:13
  Cheryl: Does that
• 11:13
  michelle: make sense?
• 11:14
  michelle: Yeah, that's helpful
• 11:16
  Cheryl: and to have good conversations affirming kind of a different view.of things Uh huh.
• 11:21
  Cheryl: But then giving them a little more concrete feet on the ground.
• 11:24
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 11:25
  Cheryl: And maybe questions.
• 11:26
  Cheryl: Let's say this is a six or eight year old, okay.
• 11:29
  Cheryl: Hey, Hey, We've got basketball or we're going somewhere, hey, how about go walk out front and feel what the weather feels like, or start bringing in awareness to the input of the surroundings, so they begin to think that way and so you're kind of having them walk in that different path.
• 11:48
  michelle: Well, and it makes sense not thinking a step ahead that during the basketball practice, you're going to get hot and sweaty.
• 11:56
  michelle: And not really having that awareness of like what's coming up.
• 12:00
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 12:01
  Cheryl: There you go.
• 12:01
  Cheryl: And the what's coming up, all little children, they don't necessarily think ahead.
• 12:06
  Cheryl: They're thinking right now, I'm hungry.
• 12:07
  Cheryl: I want to eat right now.
• 12:09
  Cheryl: But in maturity, we want to think ahead, and we want to think about options ahead
• 12:16
  michelle: that's really good.
• 12:17
  michelle: I'm getting stuck on the older kids too, so how do you help them develop those skills, um, especially when you're talking about their future and you know, what paths they want to go on
• 12:30
  Cheryl: for one thing I would say, relax.
• 12:33
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 12:33
  Cheryl: Now I know some people say, yeah, but if they aren't passing your PSAT when they're in seventh grade, whatever it is, that's a different issue.
• 12:40
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 12:41
  Cheryl: But I love letting children dream about and figure out who they think God wants them to become.
• 12:51
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 12:51
  Cheryl: And what do you think you would like to be in life I like to look.
• 12:56
  Cheryl: Watch for characteristics that I see and talk about this great thing I see in them.
• 13:03
  Cheryl: For example, maybe they just never think and put a sweater on on July 21st because they think it's a beautiful soft sweater and they're forgetting what Oklahoma's like at the end of July.
• 13:14
  Cheryl: Maybe that's not their strength, but you see a lot of empathy and care about other people.
• 13:20
  Cheryl: And so I would watch to say, what characteristics do I see in this 14, 15, 13, 12 year old?
• 13:27
  Cheryl: What do I see in them?
• 13:29
  Cheryl: And I would have conversations about, wow, Amelia.
• 13:33
  Cheryl: I just see such a tender heart in you.
• 13:36
  Cheryl: You're looking around and you see other people and you're going over and helping them or bringing them something.
• 13:45
  Cheryl: You know, I wonder if that's not kind of a route that you're going to follow in life where you're helping others.
• 13:51
  Cheryl: And I just see this great empathy in you or You see a problem solver and you talk about, man, thank you for helping me figure that out.
• 14:02
  Cheryl: And give them problem solving things and then talk about it Let's say you see her with an ability to organize and solve problems.
• 14:15
  Okay.
• 14:15
  Cheryl: Um, for example, when we used to go a week at a state park, I love having certain kids come in and think through how we organize the packing of the food and what do we need to take and helping me make lists and then how Um, for example, particularly, uh, my son has a strong, spatial awareness that I don't have for like getting all the junk we had to take into our minivan, packing it in.
• 14:44
  michelle: My husband has that gift.
• 14:45
  michelle: I do not have
• 14:46
  Cheryl: that.
• 14:46
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 14:47
  Cheryl: So like that.
• 14:47
  Cheryl: I saw that strength.
• 14:49
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 14:49
  Cheryl: Could you please get all this into the car for us?
• 14:53
  Cheryl: And I wanted to reinforce that strength.
• 14:55
  Cheryl: And then as we approach thinking about what do you want to do?
• 14:59
  Cheryl: Do you want to go to higher ed?
• 15:02
  Cheryl: what do you think of doing?
• 15:03
  Cheryl: He and I realized, Oh, he's got that engineer brain, which I don't have.
• 15:09
  Cheryl: So talk about developing it.
• 15:12
  Speaker: Wow, Michelle.
• 15:13
  Speaker: Parenting is so complex
• 15:16
  michelle: Right.
• 15:17
  Speaker: our children just like us, are this wonderful mixture of strengths and weaknesses and diverse skills or abilities.
• 15:28
  Speaker: Well just look at what we've been saying, a different way of receiving input from the world, and I.
• 15:35
  Speaker: Needed to be more aware of all that combination and then try to help strengthen up their areas that they weren't as strong in, and then maybe help develop the areas where they have natural giftings or interests or abilities.
• 15:55
  Speaker: Does that make any sense
• 15:57
  michelle: Yes well, what if they're on a direction that they're wanting to explore and you're like, Oh boy, not really thinking that's, that's a good fit for you.
• 16:06
  michelle: Do I just let them keep on exploring and let them figure it out?
• 16:10
  michelle: Or where do I step in?
• 16:11
  Cheryl: I would love to let them explore it.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 16:13
  Cheryl: And here's one of the things, gosh, we're talking about so much, right?
• 16:16
  Cheryl: I hope this is helpful.
• 16:18
  Cheryl: Suppose a little girl wants to be a veterinarian because, like, I don't know about you, but I wanted to be a vet.
• 16:23
  Cheryl: I did.
• 16:24
  Cheryl: All my girls did.
• 16:25
  Cheryl: Because they love kittens.
• 16:26
  Cheryl: They love puppies.
• 16:27
  michelle: Right.
• 16:28
  Cheryl: A day in the office of helping as a tech and a vet.
• 16:32
  Cheryl: That office help let you know if you really want to be a vet or not.
• 16:35
  Cheryl: Because you see it's all giving shots and doing surgeries and ookie stuff rather than getting to love puppies and kittens.
• 16:45
  Cheryl: And so I like giving my children the opportunity to talk with people who really have those jobs.
• 16:52
  Cheryl: Do I really want to be a physical therapist?
• 16:55
  Cheryl: Do I really like teaching?
• 16:58
  Cheryl: So talk to people who are teachers.
• 16:59
  michelle: yeah
• 17:00
  Cheryl: Talk to people who are In that field to get a feel for it.
• 17:04
  Cheryl: And then if you can, would you mind if we came into your office to let them see what a librarian really does or whatever it is to give them real world experience
• 17:16
  michelle: yeah.
• 17:17
  Cheryl: Let'em dream.
• 17:18
  Cheryl: Okay.
• 17:18
  Cheryl: Let'em try it.
• 17:19
  Cheryl: you don't have to be, don't crush
• 17:20
  michelle: their spirits,
• 17:22
  Cheryl: or their dreams.
• 17:24
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm Mm-hmm Because I'm a practical person.
• 17:26
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm I would go back and undo some of the practical answers.
• 17:29
  Cheryl: I gave my children.
• 17:31
  Cheryl: Mm-hmm you know, for example, we're tall.
• 17:33
  Cheryl: If one of them wanted to be a gymnast, I probably, in my less mature self, would have poured kind of cold water on it.
• 17:42
  Cheryl: Right.
• 17:42
  Cheryl: And explained, uh, would you look at Simone Biles?
• 17:45
  michelle: That's what I struggle with.
• 17:46
  michelle: I don't want to do that, but I do do
• 17:49
  Cheryl: that.
• 17:50
  michelle: I'm really working hard, but it's good to hear that because I need to follow that advice
• 17:55
  Cheryl: And that was my mistake that I did like with Bill because he dreamt big and out of the box.
• 18:01
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 18:02
  Cheryl: You see.
• 18:03
  Cheryl: Those of us that are really grounded to physical reality, we're not always big out of the box thinkers, okay?
• 18:11
  Cheryl: And big out of the box thinkers are the ones who came up with AI, okay?
• 18:15
  Cheryl: And they put people on the moon,
• 18:17
  but we
• 18:18
  Cheryl: might never have come up with that idea.
• 18:20
  Right.
• 18:20
  Cheryl: That's what I say, look at their strengths and let your children dream and then give them maybe increasingly doses of what that really feels like instead of pouring cold water on it.
• 18:31
  michelle: So it just sounds like, just, I'm kind of trying to put it all together.
• 18:36
  michelle: Okay, but wrapping it up, I guess, is just having those conversations and also just giving opportunities to help them explore and figure out so that they understand more about what's going on around them and more of who they are.
• 18:50
  Cheryl: Absolutely, So have a conversation helping them kind of connect the dots.
• 18:56
  Cheryl: Now, there are places where we have to intervene and say, no, you can't do that.
• 19:00
  Cheryl: But the rest of it Kind of free handed instead of panicking.
• 19:04
  Cheryl: they want to
• 19:05
  michelle: struggle with that Yeah, okay It's a process like you talked about process.
• 19:10
  michelle: I need to remind myself of that
• 19:11
  Cheryl: Okay, and we want them to feel safe that they can dream.
• 19:14
  Cheryl: Mm hmm, but we also have to say Well, we don't want to wear a hot July sweater in July, and we want to protect them from putting themselves in vulnerable situations that's where we want to intervene, right?
• 19:26
  Cheryl: I hope did it did kind of help you get some clarity
• 19:29
  michelle: Oh, yes.
• 19:29
  michelle: Yeah, I think I'm realizing I need to just kind of settle down a little bit but also encourage and allow some freedom but step in when There just needs to be a little bit more awareness going on where I can kind of guide.
• 19:45
  Cheryl: Yeah.
• 19:45
  Cheryl: And remember, if you let them connect the dots, it'll be more long term than if you connect all the dots for them.
• 19:52
  michelle: Yeah.
• 19:52
  michelle: That makes sense.
• 19:53
  michelle: That does.
• 19:53
  michelle: Yeah.
• 19:54
  michelle: Thank
• 19:54
  Cheryl: you.
• 19:54
  Cheryl: Will you come back in some time and ask me another question I don't know the answer to?
• 19:57
  Cheryl: I have a
• 19:58
  michelle: lot of questions.
• 19:59
  michelle: Okay.
• 20:01
  Cheryl: Hey, parents, remember, hang in there, keep loving, keep persevering because it's worth it.
• 20:12
  If today's conversation reminded me of anything, it's this.
• 20:17
  Our kids are growing, but not always on our timeline.
• 20:23
  Some things they'll pick up naturally.
• 20:25
  Others, they may need more time or more help, or maybe just a little more space.
• 20:34
  And that's okay.
• 20:36
  So here's a small shift to try this week.
• 20:40
  Instead of fixing, guide.
• 20:43
  Instead of correcting, ask.
• 20:46
  Instead of assuming, be curious.
• 20:49
  It takes practice, but this kind of parenting builds confidence.
• 20:53
  Not just in them, but in us too.
• 20:58
  And you're not alone in this.
• 21:00
  If you ever need to reach out, I'd love to hear from you.
• 21:03
  DM us on social media or at contact at theparentingpodcast.
• 21:08
  com.
• 21:10
  Trust me, your love, your patience, and your steady presence matter more than you can realize.
• 21:18
  I'll see you next time.