Latest / Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps / Tim Minchin Live - Part 2

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Tim Minchin Live - Part 2 · Uncomfortable Conversations with Josh Szeps

• 0:00
  G'day, humans, Vickermen, beyond the new, welcome to Part 2, Part 2 of Tim mentioned,
• 0:09
  writer, comedian, performer, musician, extraordinaire. Perhaps one of the greatest, at least the
• 0:16
  quirkiest and the most interesting that Australia has ever produced. I introduced him in the first
• 0:22
  portion of this episode, released last week, so I won't do it again, suffice it to say that
• 0:28
  this is a recording a couple of years old now, just before Christmas 2018, when I, as a relative
• 0:35
  newcomer back to my homeland of Australia, gathered a sold out crowd together in the giant
• 0:39
  dwarf theatre, that cathedral to all things creative, and regaled them with a conversation with Tim
• 0:44
  mentioned and including a musical performance which you'll get to enjoy. If you haven't heard the
• 0:49
  first section of this, I suggest you go back to the immediately previous episode and listen to
• 0:54
  that first, enjoy the continuation of my uncomfortable conversation with the one and only, Tim mentioned.
• 1:14
  Could I have a tiny rant, please? It's why they're here. I don't hear a tiny rant. And I don't know if
• 1:19
  I'm right. And I, so part of this is just such fucking privileged white man talk. But you know,
• 1:29
  someone's got to do it. If you get rid of all the privileged white men, you'll have a lot of
• 1:36
  voices, but not the privileged white men voices. Anyway, fuck. There's been a lot of privileged
• 1:43
  white men have done good stuff, but probably more who've done bad. But so part of progressive
• 1:49
  notes that the fact that it's necessary to preface it with that is shitty. It's a bit weird.
• 1:54
  Anyway, I don't know. It's maybe it's fine. And I'm not, it's fucking fine. I'm the one with the
• 1:59
  fucking white man. I'm not complaining even in a straight white man. I think there's something about
• 2:08
  what we've done in progressivism, which is right, which is correct, I mean, which is that we go
• 2:17
  one person's no better than another person. But there's some logical step we take that says
• 2:24
  that has slightly said an educated person is not better than an uneducated person. Now that's
• 2:31
  true. There's absolutely no doubt that that an educated person is not better than an uneducated
• 2:36
  person. And obviously, there's all different types of education and all that's true and
• 2:40
  important to acknowledge. But the goal should still be to educate everyone as much as possible,
• 2:45
  I think. I remember when we wrote Matilda, it got very nice reviews, but there was a panel show
• 2:52
  and a woman said she didn't like it because the wormwoods mocked the average working class family.
• 2:59
  They had microwave dinners and they watched TV all the time. She said, I have microwave dinners,
• 3:03
  in the evenings I'm too tired to read books. I watched the Kardashians and stuff and they're judging
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  me for it. And I'm like, yep, we're judging you for it. Like I'm not stopping you doing it,
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  but you should turn off the Kardashians and read a book. You should. I'm not saying you master
• 3:20
  that you're a worse person, but you should. When I watch bad TV, I go, I should have read a
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  fucking book. I still think we should aspire wherever we come from. We used to aspire above
• 3:34
  whatever you would put everything into hoping your kid gets a chance to get educated. And now I
• 3:39
  fear that this crazy focus on all this bullshit is slightly an outcome. I'm going to make it
• 3:50
  fuller myself because I haven't thought this through, but it's slightly an outcome of the fact
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  that we're so like, ah, you know, I don't think anyone in this room should know who Kim Kardashian is
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  and not know what Isaac Newton did. I don't think anyone should do that. I think it's a moral
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  imperative to know who the fucking people who changed our world, who married curious before you know
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  who Kim Kardashian is. And I think you should be allowed to say that. And you are allowed to say,
• 4:19
  here I am saying it. But if we don't go, no, that's gross. That shit is gross. You shouldn't have
• 4:25
  ever watched Donald Trump on TV because he dumbed you down. Don't ever buy a gossip magazine.
• 4:30
  It's nothing to fucking do with you. Don't feed those people selling that shit. Don't watch the
• 4:35
  Kardashians. They have nothing to teach you. Spend your time doing better stuff, objectively better
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  stuff for your mind and humanity. Don't go, oh, let's just rejoice. Everyone's different. You
• 4:46
  know, I didn't have the opportunity. I didn't get told that I should read about Newton. That's why
• 4:50
  I'm watching. I'm telling you, read about Newton, not the Kardashians, you know. So if we live in a
• 4:55
  world where everyone celebrates, ah, well, I just love the Kardashians. It's just a bit of fun.
• 5:00
  Then of course, we're going to spend our whole time talking about fucking Trump because we're like
• 5:04
  celebrity. There is no demarcation between gossiping and talking about the fucking world.
• 5:12
  It's become, it seems to me, we are saying there's no value difference between
• 5:18
  self-education and indulging our bassist instinct to care about what the tits of someone is.
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  You know, like, ah, tits are plural. Ah. So anyway, that's my little rant. I think we have fallen
• 5:31
  on a time where pop culture being, oh, I just love pop culture. Oh, fuck pop culture. Just
• 5:38
  fuck it. It's gross. Don't let your kids want it. And then I think that's partly fed into by the
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  concern of our culture. Exactly. Says Australia's most popular cultural record.
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  But for different reasons, Tim, which is why I would love you. I think that of course,
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  it's an absurd rant. No, no. I think it's valid also because it feeds back into the concerns
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  we were raising earlier about devices and social media and how you were saying it's bad for people
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  because if you are acculturated into an expectation that all that what you're going to get are
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  constant pings of juicy little stories that give you a nice little dopamine hit in your head
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  because you get to find out what Kim said to Chloe this morning. Who's Chloe? Another Kardashian,
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  obviously. Keep up with your Kardashians. Then, you know, then I do think that that impedes
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  your ability to read Tolstoy. Yeah. Right. Can you read Tolstoy? Fuck no, I watched the Kardashians.
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  But you know what I mean, we're not doing ourselves any favors in terms of the things that we focus
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  on by shortening our attention spans and expecting immediate gratification. And as if I need to say this,
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  I do all this shit all the time, but I aspire not to. And I just want to encourage us all to aspire
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  to eat less sweets culturally. You know, like I eat shit food, but mostly I'm like, come on Tim,
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  you can do better than this. And I think if we're watching the Kardashians, we should turn it off and
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  go, that was fun, but come on. I'm going to, I'm going to now go have some broccoli. I'm going to
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  go try and read a Vonnegut. I'm going to now go and loudly judge everybody else who did what I
• 7:18
  just did. That's exactly right. Yeah. Oh, whatever. But let's not stop aspiring. Yes, you know.
• 7:24
  Yes. Let's, this is our Christmas episode of We The People Live. And so while I was I've lived in
• 7:31
  New York for the past dozen years. And I, on many occasions, at Christmas time, amid the snow and
• 7:37
  the cold and the twinkly lights would would gaze wistfully at my deep brown southern land and wish
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  that I went in the sunshine for Christmas and with my family. So I was wondering if you would do
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  us the honor of playing a little, a little Christmas song. Sure, sure. By the name of
• 7:57
  white wine in the sun. I haven't played this since I've moved time, so it won't make me sad anymore.
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  And I also mine to get the news.
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  I really like Christmas. It's sentimental, I know.
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  But I just really like it.
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  I'm hardly religious. I'd rather hang with dick docks than cardinal pelt to be honest.
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  And yes, I have all of the usual objections to consumerism to the commercialization of an
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  ancient religion to the westernization of a dead Palestinian press ganged into selling
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  plays stations and beer. But I still really like it.
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  I'm looking forward to Christmas.
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  I'm not expecting a visit from Jesus, I'll be seeing my dad, my brother and sisters, my grand and my mom.
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  They'll be drinking white wine in the sun.
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  I don't go in foration wisdom. I don't believe just because our ideas are tenacious.
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  It means that they're worthy.
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  I get freaked out by churches. Some of the hymns that they sing have nice chords, but the lyrics are dodgy.
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  And yes, I have all of the usual objections to the miseducation of children who in tax exempt institutions
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  are taught to externalize blame and to feel ashamed and to judge things as plain right or wrong.
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  But I quite like the songs.
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  I'm not expecting big presents. The old combination of socks, jocks and shot that's
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  just fine by me. Because I'll be seeing my dad, my brother and sisters, my grand and my mom.
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  They'll be drinking white wine in the sun. I'll be seeing my dad, my brother and sisters,
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  my grand and my mom. They'll be drinking white wine in the sun.
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  And you, my baby girl, my jet-lagged infant daughter, you'll be handed round the road.
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  Like a puppy at a primary school, down you won't understand.
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  But you will learn someday that wherever you are and whatever you face.
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  These are the people who make you feel safe in this world, my sweet blue-eyed girl.
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  And if my baby girl, oh, in your 21 or 31, and Christmas comes around,
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  and you find yourself 9,000 miles from home, you'll know what ever comes.
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  Your brothers and sisters and me and your mom will be awaiting for you in the sun,
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  drinking white wine in the sun.
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  Darling, when Christmas comes, we'll be waiting for you in the sun.
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  Drink and white wine in the sun, waiting for you in the sun.
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  Darling, whenever you come, we'll be waiting for you in the sun, waiting.
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  I really like Christmas, it's sentimental I know.
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  I was at my wine, but there you go.
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  All the cups are on the ground now. That's just ridiculous.
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  I told you you were a loctopus, knocking every glass on stage.
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  A noctopus. That was wonderful, that was wonderful, sir.
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  I said noctopus. I'm a noctopus.
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  That's really fucking comedy, sir.
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  No, that's great. People expect a lot.
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  Noctopus is strong.
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  No puns are the finest form of humour, Tim.
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  If anyone wants to ask some questions, say in the final minutes that we have,
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  then feel free to pop over to the microphone over there.
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  And if you're over this side, then just pop up your hand and Jake will come to you,
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  probably exhibiting some kind of implicit bias against your race or gender.
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  So hello.
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  Hi.
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  I have a question for many people that are trying to go into the creative arts.
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  If there was some kind of art colony that use anarchist philosophy to emancipate people from
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  family, culture, capital, to produce more people like Tim mentioned,
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  would that be good for society or not?
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  That was a good question, didn't it?
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  Did you understand that one?
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  Yeah, yeah, you sort of hold your ethical position.
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  It's an interesting thing, isn't it, that you hold,
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  and this will be long, so you could worry about your standing.
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  Your tacit assumption of your ethical positions in life is that the world would be better
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  if more people thought like me, isn't it?
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  Well, I don't think they're about you.
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  I think they're about me.
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  Yeah.
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  It's a funny thing that you go that it seems so absurd to say,
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  I think the world would be a better place if more people thought like me,
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  but that is implicit in the idea of having a set of values.
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  Is that you think it's scalable?
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  I strive to be a person who finds a balance between passion and empathy and careful
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  critical thinking to make moral assessments of behavior and act accordingly.
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  I think that would be good if people did that.
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  I also have a carbon footprint that you just want to fucking kill me for.
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  And I'm sure I do a whole lot of shit that's wrong.
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  I mean, I try to pay on my tax and give a bit of way.
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  I try and act well, but so I guess it'll be better have lots of me's
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  than a bunch of fucking hedge fund operators.
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  I mean, yeah, although I'm sure they do something good.
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  Fund hedges.
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  But I don't necessarily think the world, I don't necessarily think the world needs more artists.
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  I think the world needs everyone to consume art.
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  I think art is a good form of communication and certainly there's correlations between
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  music and art and schools and good general educational outcomes and stuff.
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  And certainly I think one of the things that that's privileged people access to art,
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  I mean, some of the charities I'm connected to are all about making sure
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  people who don't have access haven't, obviously I believe that's good,
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  but I don't necessarily think everyone should be a fucking artist.
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  I also know a lot of artists.
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  I think some of them should go and be teachers or do something else.
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  I definitely don't think the world needs more of me because I'm doing this job.
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  I've managed to carve out a little job where only I get to do it and everyone else can fuck off.
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  So I'm just shouted boo.
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  So you actually got heckled for being insufficiently enthusiastic about yourself.
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  About cloning.
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  They actually like you better than me.
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  I think I actually am very passionate about and want to try and again,
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  if anyone listening knows where we're at with this in Australia because I'm going to just move back,
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  I would like in the future to be a part of making sure that critical thinking
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  is one of the main things you're eights and nines do.
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  That's just my sort of instinct is about the right time.
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  I reckon we should be teaching critical thinking.
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  Yes, if you could actually come out of high school having learned about how the media works
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  and how a logical argument gets formed and how to analyse whether or not an argument that's
• 18:33
  being made by people in public is logically coherent, that would help.
• 18:38
  I feel like we're behind.
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  I feel like that's all that fucking matters.
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  You don't need to know when the first fleet arrived in Australia.
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  You need to know whether the website you're reading that says the first fleet arrived in
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  Australia in 788 has got the fucking date right.
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  You need to know what truth looks like and how to fact check it and then how to find out that it was
• 19:01
  an invasion, not a settling problem.
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  But yes, I mean, how to figure out what good information is is more important than the information
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  now because we have the information and I'm sure in 20 years I hope our education system looks
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  more like an ancient Greek one where you're learning discourse and rhetoric and logic.
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  What questions to ask?
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  How to prove an argument?
• 19:27
  Exactly.
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  Yes, one more question.
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  That's actually very interesting because what I was going to say is what you were saying earlier
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  with the education being educated is better than not.
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  To me, it feels more like it's like that we should be allowed to say that an informed opinion
• 19:44
  is better than an uninformed opinion and people fight for that.
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  They're right to have an uninformed opinion, which I don't understand.
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  But that's right.
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  Expertise is better than non-expertise in any given discussion.
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  I think that's a much better, less inflammatory way of putting it.
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  Yeah, possibly less.
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  I think it would be better if you knew your ship than not knowing your ship in this discussion about
• 20:07
  ship.
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  Yes.
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  So feel free to use that.
• 20:18
  That was the conversational equivalent of just going,
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  copy right.
• 20:24
  My question was actually about what you were saying about that the US, the American conspiracy
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  ism.
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  I wanted to know what else you think about why America is the way they is in so many ways.
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  Why they have a very different culture that's not just them, it's kind of nearly every other
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  culture in the world is not as insular and self-serving in me first as the way that that culture has
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  developed and having lived there, I know that there's just so much about the mindset that's
• 20:58
  different and this is like a total creative side note, but I feel like that's also one of the
• 21:02
  reasons that Groundhog Day wasn't received in America when it was in the UK.
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  And I, I saw it, but I loved it, but I'm Australian.
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  Yeah, I love you, I love you so much.
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  On every level.
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  I have a friend in New York who saw it seven times, including on the closing night,
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  so yeah, she's very sad.
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  She's very sensible.
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  Sad about it all the time, but.
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  Seven times is how many times you need to see Groundhog Day the Musical to get it.
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  That's almost $900 worth of tickets.
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  But you actually need to see it every day in a row so that your life becomes a kind of Groundhog Day.
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  That's true.
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  I think we get that question, but we just have to also move on.
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  But yes, the question is basically about why Americans crazy outside of that religious aspect.
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  Why is America?
• 21:46
  Yeah, why is America nuts?
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  I, I don't know and I'm not sure they're more nuts than Saudi Arabia.
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  I'd say they're not.
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  I'd say it's an amazing country.
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  What is amazing about it was taken from the trouble is their ownership over everything
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  great about them and the notion that they're great and that military might translate to
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  greatness, but it's just so complicated and deep in a way that I don't understand at all.
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  But their origin story, their slavery story, the manner in which their populations in
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  a mingled the origin story of the religiosity, the massive focus on the story of themselves,
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  patriotism and the constitution as a sacred document and their old leaders as God-like figures
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  which comes back to our other thing.
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  I think it's a country that wants desperately to keep planting flags in the ground
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  and saluting to its greatness and it's just not for kind of appropriate anymore.
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  And I think, but the main thing you have to say about America is there is no America.
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  It might as well be 100 countries and the trouble is they keep China
• 23:05
  tell the story of their national identity to keep themselves cohesive, but it's just not.
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  It's just such different people.
• 23:15
  Yeah, I just want to move the show along, but I would second that having lived there for a dozen
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  years and just remind Australians that it's hard for us coming from a country with
• 23:26
  not very many people to understand that the US has almost the same population as the entire
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  European Union. And in some respects, Seattle is different from the Deep South, which is as
• 23:38
  different from Silicon Valley, which is different from Manhattan, which is different from rural
• 23:42
  Maine as Dakota. Yeah, as Brussels is from Naples. And so we kind of we generalize about them
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  a little bit, but what we're normally talking about is a kind of isolationist rump that might
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  represent 20 or 30% of the country. And you can find 20 or 30% of Australia that seems pretty
• 24:02
  batchy, as if that was all you focused on as well. We end every show with something I like to call
• 24:08
  first date questions where I go on a first date with the guests and the bonus content is that I
• 24:14
  ask our guests and Tim doesn't know about this. Some questions that you might want to ask a person
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  on a first date. It's a rapid fire round, Tim. No, this is going to be difficult for you to answer
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  very quickly. Can you get me a glass of wine from the challenge? Some flowers. Okay, I don't do
• 24:30
  rapid fire, but you watch me do rapid fire. Here we go. If you had to live full time in a caravan
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  or in a sailboat, which one? Caravan. Why? Because you're less at the whim of the gods. Okay.
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  When you were a kid, what seemed like the best thing about being a grown-up?
• 24:53
  I'd be able to stay up late. The best road trip you've been on?
• 24:58
  Driving Perth to Melbourne just after we got married in 2002. Did you stop along the way?
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  Many times. It's a long way, but there's not a lot between it. Oh, so good. Have you done it?
• 25:10
  I have. Well, no, not to Melbourne, but to Sydney, which is even further.
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  It's beautiful. I sort of win that little competition.
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  I'm going to try and do it with my two kids next year. In fact, yes, I booked the first caravan part
• 25:22
  this afternoon. Sorry, Sarah, did I tell you that? I booked a caravan part. I could only get an
• 25:28
  unpowered sight. What he hasn't told you is that you're going to spend the rest of your life
• 25:32
  living in a caravan because it's not a sailboat, so he's like, I'm going to do it. If you could
• 25:37
  send one letter to yourself in the past, what age would you choose and what would you say?
• 25:48
  I would say I'd send a letter to myself at 42, 18 months ago and say, you'll be fine next year.
• 25:56
  That's sweet. What's a cheesy song that you like?
• 26:00
  I will survive. I like a lot of cheesy songs, especially if you include jazz standards.
• 26:13
  Some people find them cheesy, but they're the greatest songs I've ever heard.
• 26:15
  Go on, show us a jazz stand. No, well, I can do both because what's it?
• 26:45
  It's all the same old shit.
• 26:59
  What song has the best name? Not the best song, just a good name.
• 27:04
  Bohemian rap city is a pretty good name. It's a good one. Because it's not in the
• 27:09
  fucking ears, though. Sort of. It was all right, wasn't he, Freddie? He could play.
• 27:14
  He was great. I'm sure you have the archipelago or heard the archipelago version,
• 27:21
  which is just his vocal track of doing, I can't even remember what the song is.
• 27:26
  Bohemian rap city, wasn't it? No, no, no, no. Does anyone know?
• 27:30
  So if it's just incredible, in fact, I'm going to insert a little piece of it into the
• 27:35
  podcast right here.
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  There we go. Wasn't that great?
• 28:10
  The incredible thing is he could insert more than that. Yeah, yeah. It's like a magic.
• 28:15
  I'm going to insert a, like, some huge nopsy tirade and then it would just be associated with
• 28:20
  us forever. If you had to choose between having an incredibly fast car or incredibly fast internet
• 28:24
  speed for the rest of your life, which would it be? Internet speed. I can order me a car,
• 28:29
  I've got loads of money. Or I could drive my fast car to an internet shop and get me some fast
• 28:37
  internet. I'll get them both. You could. You could. I do like the idea of you surfing your
• 28:42
  incredibly fast internet for the fastest possible car in the fastest possible time.
• 28:46
  Have it delivered immediately. Just to annoy you, yes, exactly. What's a good saying?
• 28:52
  What's a saying? You're like, so it goes.
• 28:57
  Bit short. It's a lot of house fun. What's the hardest you've worked for something?
• 29:04
  I guess to be able to play the piano like I played for a long time, but I don't know.
• 29:08
  That's not work, is it? No, it wasn't work. I didn't practice that as a factor.
• 29:14
  Not that I'm very good, but I'm good to an extent that I really like. Yeah, you appreciate.
• 29:18
  What's the hardest I've worked for something? I don't know. Do you know what?
• 29:22
  To lose the five kilos I lost for this fucking TV. Really? Yeah, not eating is the hardest thing.
• 29:29
  Not eating and drinking is the hardest thing I do in my life. Yeah, that's so annoying.
• 29:35
  I mean, it's obviously hard for everybody because how many people do you know who don't want to lose
• 29:39
  five kilos? Yeah, it's not very many. If you could change one law, what law would you change?
• 29:47
  I don't know about that. You know, in Australia, obviously I'd get rid of blasphemy laws
• 29:52
  in Asia and Middle East. I think that'd be good. I think you shouldn't be allowed to kill someone
• 29:59
  for not believing in Mohammed. Seems like a good idea. Most of the bad shit happens sort of
• 30:04
  in and around the laws, though, doesn't it? What about you? I'd like to know your answer to that one.
• 30:10
  Well, I hadn't thought about it because I wasn't going to be the target of this particular
• 30:14
  conversation. We're both on this date, Motherbug.
• 30:20
  You're not going to get a blowjob by side stepping.
• 30:27
  You are. What kind of a crazy misogynistic date would this be if I just had,
• 30:35
  if I had a folder and I was just peppering my date with questions?
• 30:38
  I refuse to answer any. You will answer mine, Tim.
• 30:43
  No, a law that I would change. I was talking the day before yesterday to the Rhodes Minister,
• 30:49
  Malinda Pavi, about this new, they've got these cameras that are going to snap you as you drive
• 30:55
  along and they can see whether or not you've got a mobile phone in your hand and the artificial
• 31:00
  intelligence will just send you a phone without a person even having to look at it. So I was
• 31:03
  asking, what if you're like eating a sandwich? A phone shape sandwich.
• 31:10
  What if the phone's on the seat next to you? So I was me at Helper, a little story.
• 31:17
  I was waiting to turn right off of Victoria Road and I know how long the lights
• 31:22
  take there. It was a red light and there was a lot of traffic and I was going to be stuck there.
• 31:25
  The lights are just gone red, so I knew it was going to be at least four minutes time.
• 31:28
  I put the car into park. My phone's on the passenger seat next to me. It buzzes.
• 31:33
  It's my partner. What time are you going to be home? I look over at it. I pick it up. There's a
• 31:37
  wrap on the window next to me and there's a cop on a motorbike sitting right next to me just
• 31:42
  watching me and as soon as I touch the phone, he gets me to pull over three points, $330.
• 31:48
  In park. In park. Right. So I still think killing Atheus in Pakistan's worth.
• 31:55
  Although I think that's terrible. I feel for you. No. I feel for you. No.
• 32:02
  No. You don't understand him. But you wouldn't be headed to be fair.
• 32:14
  But it's bad. It was bad. Scary too. Right there you say. Right there. Right there.
• 32:21
  It's just talking to your partner. And he's got a helmet on. He's got a camera on. He says he's
• 32:27
  filming me. He's very traumatising. Anywho. So I'm talking to the roads minister and then she says
• 32:35
  actually it is illegal to eat a sandwich. And I say really? Not in general. In a car.
• 32:43
  Keep going. Stop eating sandwiches. Don't you have a responsibility to this out here?
• 32:47
  I'm sorry. I'm sorry. If anyone's eating a sandwich here right now, don't worry.
• 32:51
  No, that's fucked up. It's too hot for sandwiches. This is cool.
• 33:01
  And so then yesterday I spoke to the road safety experts and emperor guy at the
• 33:07
  over the road and maritime service or whatever they. And so he said if you have your phone on
• 33:13
  the seat next to you, you can't even be. You can't have a navigation map app open on the seat next to
• 33:20
  you. And I said can you have a street directory open? And he said yes that's fine. I said so you
• 33:26
  can look down at the seat next to you at a street directory but you can't look down at the seat
• 33:30
  next to you if the street directory is on a digital device. And he said yes. That's the law I'd
• 33:34
  change. I think that's I think blow job blow job blow job. I mean all right I think that means
• 33:42
  that was the show is over ladies and gentlemen I've got better places to be. It's so exciting
• 33:47
  everyone wants to go to the bar. Thanks for having me. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you so
• 33:51
  much for doing the show ladies and gentlemen please thank the one and only. Josh Seps. Josh Seps.
• 34:04
  you