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The Clarity Revolution: Scaling Talent Strategy with AI Transformation · 10X AI with Julius Neil

• Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Good day everyone, I'm Julius Neil. I'm here with a new guest. Her name is Tiffany and she is a ⁓ senior acquisition consultant doing business and ⁓ consulting in AI So Tiffany, introduce yourself to viewers and our listeners right now? Tiffany Dougherty: Yes, thank you so much for that introduction. you said, my name is Tiffany Doherty. I'm the founder ⁓ Ardent Services, which is at its core ⁓ consulting with clarity organization. And I feel like this introduction of AI has added an even greater level of clarity into some of the pain points, some of the optionality, some of the things that I've worked with ⁓ with of my clients over the last nine years. It's crazy to say it's almost 10 years now that I've been Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ha ha ha. Tiffany Dougherty: doing the services. really at its core, ⁓ you know, that clarity piece, I wanted to help organizations and individuals to find clarity as they traverse this talent landscape. ⁓ all of the tooling, all of the programs, all of the webinars and workshops that I've done over the last nine plus years here have with that focus in mind of how to navigate those talent challenges and turn them into turnkey solutions. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so everyone's talking about clarity. So it's a very simple word, but you know what, when it comes to real world application, what is really the challenge of organizations having this clarity? Because they have the vision, they have the mission, and then several others, several other values that they wanted to impart to the whole organization. And still, they're having problems with clarity. Tiffany Dougherty: Right, right. I think that with all of that mission and vision and even all of the excitement around what could happen and the possibility, I think that we have a challenge around where to start. I think that becomes the biggest problem. oftentimes ⁓ ⁓ organizations that I've worked with that start ⁓ much all at once and with their lean teams, they're not able to really accomplish or make the biggest impact. that they wanted to. So I think that it's the where to start challenge, not the what do we want to do, what do we want to see for our organization, it's where to start and actually making that move to get started. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: What do you mean when you said about the lean team? So is it because the team is so lean, they cannot get this clarity? Because they're so mechanistic, they have this super duper, you know, process that very cutthroat that you have to follow every day? Is that something like that, that's having the with clarity? Tiffany Dougherty: Sure, well let me clarify, know, a lot of my work over the last 10 years, you previous to that I was in corporate America and previous to that I was in staffing agencies. I won't even try to delve into all of that craziness at this time, but really the companies that I've worked with over the last 10 years here have been high growth startups and SMB clients. So they are very, very lean. And when I say lean, I mean they're small but mighty. They are growing at a rapid rate. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, yeah. Tiffany Dougherty: have broad shoulders, as I would say. So they are shouldering ⁓ weight of lot of responsibility and expanded job titles, some titles that they are doing the work of two and three and four people. So when you tell them, we're going to make a change or we're going to introduce AI into job, and they're thinking, I've already got 10 things that I'm trying to incorporate into my day-to-day life. Thank you for adding yet another one to my plate. They're overwhelmed. So I think that clarity piece needs to come in. I worked with a really great partner that said, you know, it's not always easy, but it's gotta be simple. It's gotta be simple and clear how we go forward. What's first, what's next, what's next. ⁓ I give you the whole process right up front, you're probably gonna be a little overwhelmed, but if we can start with that clarity piece, and like I said before, where to start, you that's been most helpful with especially lean teams. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, you work for nine years for different companies and then high growth startups. So what is the pattern between among this, about this startup when it comes to the clarity? Where do they struggle most? Tiffany Dougherty: Yeah, again, I think that ⁓ with so many responsibilities and with so many moving pieces, you know, the phrase, build the plane as you fly it, that will strike fear into my heart. ⁓ But lean into it. I lean into that chaos because it is quite chaotic to come into an actively ⁓ building, organization and ⁓ have not certain on what they're supposed to be doing or not. clear on where they're going. They just know what their job is. They're looking directly at what's on their own plate. I think that the challenge for them and some of the consistent I've seen over ⁓ so many organizations that I've worked with ⁓ is everyone picking up their heads metaphorically and looking around, taking a little bit of a lay of the land of where we're at. and for true leadership to come in and say, this is our true north. If we're all, I remember the analogy of if you're closing your eyes and everyone just points in the direction that they think, you know, the biggest landmark is wherever, whatever city you're in. I'm in Chicago. So if I say point to where the Sears Tower is and somebody points this way and somebody else points that way and everybody's pointing in different directions and we don't know what the true direction is, we're all going to be heading in different directions. So I think that that is another consistent challenge is that everyone had Julius Neil Buenconsejo: You Tiffany Dougherty: a different direction that they were wanting to go in they were moving full steam ahead at those directions and so it really takes strong leadership and again that clarity piece to come together and move towards a common goal. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, and then right now, so when you come to the company, for example, and you have this, you know, there's this chaos and then they have this LinkedIn. And then there are two things that they're doing now. They wanted to streamline their processes. And then now you come in and you tell them, okay, we wanted you to use AI and then integrate that simultaneously with all the programs of their transformation. So how do you navigate that within the organization? Tiffany Dougherty: Right. Well, I like to, you know, do my, my homework and, know, do my due diligence before coming in. So I kind of know a little bit about the organization. I've talked with some of the senior leaders, ⁓ you know, discussed some of their strategy and, know, gotten all into the ops side of, of their mind. But what I really love to do is come in and ask the people that are executing on the work, whether the, the people might be in middle management or they might be the individual contributors of the team. And I say, what is your biggest pain point today? I care greatly about what the senior leaders want to do in the organization. I say that for posterity, right? But I do care a lot more about making sure that whatever we are trying to accomplish from a top-down initiative is going to be adapted at the individual level. And if the individual does not understand how this is going to make their job easier, I'm sorry to say, but it's going to fall flat and we're not going to get anywhere. And we're going to have a lot of Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Tiffany Dougherty: coaching opportunities, we're gonna have a lot of turnover, we're gonna have a lot of redirects, and people that are kicking and screaming along with the process, metaphorically speaking. So I would rather come in and say, let's address the biggest pain point first, let's get that tier one solutioning out of the way and get some easy low hanging fruit under our belts here. and then we can move forward and then we can do the next great thing and then we can do the next great thing. We can't come in and accomplish all at once. So I'd rather start with what the biggest pain point is so that that way ⁓ we can see some almost gratification when a recruiter sees, ⁓ AI is not taking my job. It's augmenting ⁓ my It's taking things from me that I don't want to do. And ⁓ they're that that's a partnership that they can have with AI rather than this resistance to it. I think that that's a much easier starting point and it helps me to gain trust within a team as little or as long as I've worked with them. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so for context for our viewers and listeners, when you say you come into an organization and you would like to transform them, because most of the people would think that this is very easy and very short time. mean, it would take a lot of time to be able to transform a company when it comes to AI or even other transformation and streamlining processes. So usually how long is the transformation when you see ⁓ changes that the people already are feeling? Tiffany Dougherty: Right. I've implemented some things that are instantaneous. Those are the fun ones, you know, when you get that instant gratification and you can see someone's, you know, light bulbs come on in their brain, they really light up and, you know, realize the impact that this kind of a tool could have. An example would be an AI interviewing tool that was taking notes for the interviewer while they were speaking and it was being recorded and they were summarizing those notes and... you know, even tying it back to a scorecard that we had created prior and they're like, why do I have to create this scorecard? Why do I have to record my interviews? What is this really going to do? I'm good at writing my own notes. I know how to really pull out the best in a candidate. But lo and behold, when those that were using it were adapting it and were using it in each stage of the interview process, ⁓ made for quicker and better hires. When I say better hires, the quality of which was... the impact to the organization, the longevity of the person within the organization, just all around better hires were being accomplished because we were using this one tool. Some other things, yes, they take longer, I think because there is always going to be a human element in this. There's always gonna be a trust factor. So I cannot come in with a sledgehammer, so to speak, and smash the mold and get everything out of here and clean it up and start fresh. when sometimes I need to bring a little chisel. I need a chisel here, I need a chisel there so that that way we can really shape this into what we want it to be. We don't always need to come in and get rid of everything. And I think that's what people are scared of. Oftentimes when I come in, I might have three weeks, I might have three months, I might have a year and a half. Some of my longer term engagements were those 18 months, sometimes creeping up to two years, where I was embedded in that organization and I was working as a true partner. to help them see what's coming next in their talent challenges. But, you know, I'm not going to try to build Roman a day and, you know, do all of these analogies that we say, you know, it's not an overnight thing. It's also not a one and done. You can't come in and do one thing and say, okay, I did one thing and it's great and you guys are gonna worship me forever. It's not a one and done. You've gotta be always adapting to the next thing, next challenge for me. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. You Yeah, that's why I wanted to clarify because I have a lot of friends, I have some of my clients, they're asking me about this transformation, how long? And then I always tell them, we don't know how long it would take. It depends on the organization. And I cannot say it's three months or four months or six months. And they will say, some of the consultants that I talked to, they will say they can fix us in six months. So I always tell them, it's not that, you cannot predict that it depends on your organization unless I go dig in, just like you're saying, we have to have our own. research about your company and then from there we will be able to map out the phase one, phase two, phase three or even phase four or phase five. So look moving on to the perspective and your philosophy. You often talk about people systems instead of just HR or recruiting. What does that shift language change about how leaders think? Tiffany Dougherty: Right, well looking at the landscape of HR, think historically it's been the people that you go to for your benefits, the people that manage compliance, and when somebody's in trouble, hear from HR. The HR landscape has changed drastically, and I think that it has come with some ⁓ emergence more talent acquisition or TA initiatives. I've often said that TA and HR ⁓ are of the organization. They are not one and the same. TA has just been under the umbrella of Big Sister HR and we've been following along, but when you truly look at a talent acquisition or a two-talent strategy, it's from recruiting to retention and it involves everything in between. So it's really a disservice to the HR side of the house and the TA side of the house if you don't have them mixed together and if you don't have them communicating on a functional level. AI can help with that a lot. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Tiffany Dougherty: You know again, there's no substitute for the human in this process So the humans have to be humble enough to come to the same table and say hey You're gonna be great at some things that I'm not and and I'm gonna be doing some things that you don't necessarily want to do You know has their their ⁓ positions to play ⁓ this landscape But I think that AI has been augmenting so many of these roles on both sides of the house We just need to all come together and kind of read from the same sheet of music Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so you mentioned about talent acquisition. I'm always curious about this, about HR specialist or HR professional. So what do you think about talent acquisition? What is recruiting and what is hiring manager? So these all different ones, right? So ⁓ how do differentiate that? Tiffany Dougherty: Yeah, I I always think categorically. I don't know if that's just my brain or if that's just for so long in so many different companies and seeing the same challenges. And then like we talked about before, the clarity. I need to create clarity in a few different areas. And it seems to be in the areas of sourcing, selection support. ⁓ So you look at those buckets and you say, how am I screening for the right talent? How am I even ⁓ sourcing the right talent? ⁓ How am I selecting the right talent? What does that selection and offer process look like? Is everybody getting to like a heck yes on this person or are some people on the fence and some people are like crazed about them and they're super pumped we're just we're getting a majority vote but there are some people who had some misgivings about this this candidate. ⁓ I think that everyone's is important ⁓ in talent acquisition landscape but If we don't have processes in place, if we don't have systems that support the right hire, just kind of taking a roll of the dice every hire we make if we do not have those processes and systems in place. And again, if we're not letting talent acquisition ⁓ do job and bring their expertise to the table. Great recruiters, know, even especially now in this age of AI where they can do their due diligence and their research in a talent industry or Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, for real. Tiffany Dougherty: or talent mapping of sorts. When they come to the table with the full knowledge of what it is that they're going to be tasked with to just find the right person for this role, they can accurately ⁓ really ⁓ extensively educate the hiring manager as to what to expect. They can manage those expectations. I'm not saying that HR hasn't done a great job of ⁓ doing over the years, but I've worked with some HR partners that had a very internal lens, were very focused on what the organization needs, and they were not out in the world of talent. They were not seeing all of the changes in the job markets and all of these industry specifics and all of the things that recruiters, if they're in their industry day in and day out, they will know. that's one area that I think is really, really important is to allow recruiters ⁓ same seat at the table to that knowledge and to make sure that you are an educated hiring team throughout the process. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, and then at what point in your career did you realize that talent strategy is actually a business strategy? Tiffany Dougherty: realized that probably in my staffing days. It feels ⁓ forever ago, but when I started in staffing agencies and I realized, ⁓ know, there were these burn turn strategies or where they were the fill and bill, all of these phrases that were just like, just get the body in the seat, just get the just get the bill, just get the we need ⁓ we the numbers, you know. And I'm not wired that way. I'm not wired in that sort of callous business operating procedure. I wanted to really know the human. So when I started to take more time in my interviews with candidates each week and I said, what is it that you are looking for, Mr. or Mrs. candidate? What is it that you want in a job? And I was starting to relay those desires, those Julius Neil Buenconsejo: You Tiffany Dougherty: those check boxes, if you will, back to the employer. And I said, this is what they want. If you don't offer this, please don't take this person. I'd rather help them find what they really want. And that in turn helped the employer to know how to get the best talent, how to keep the best talent, how to keep growing their organization with more talent like that. It led to not only more, fills on my part. I was filling more people in positions with important clients, but it led to least two ⁓ relationships with highly competitive ⁓ ⁓ wanted business. Everybody wanted to get in or get an in in this client's company, ⁓ they chose us because we were providing the best talent and the most sustainable. ⁓ talent model because we focused on the individual and not just the organization and their needs and feeding the beast. So that's when I started to realize that talent and focusing on your talent early, often and always ⁓ the business strategy you will ever have because it keeps pouring back into your organization the more talent ⁓ focused your organization is. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: and one thing of course there's always a saying that most organizations will say that people are our greatest asset but over the years when I come to you know come to the organizations and you know join them they always say this but why do so few truly operate that operate that way Tiffany Dougherty: right? Right? I think that it's a phrase that, ⁓ one of those cringe-worthy phrases that I hear and it kind of makes my eyes start to twitch. Because what I want to say is prove it. Prove it. Show me, I know that everyone wants to care about people and that is a very altruistic, feel-good initiative to put out there. We care about our people. Well, of course you do. You're not gonna go come right out and say, like, we don't really care about our people if it doesn't affect our bottom line, you know? And bearing in mind that I've come from some of the, you know, really cutthroat agency industry days and I've gone through a corporation that was, you know, kind of seeing their sunset. years. And they were really kind of grappling with the reality that this might not be company that we can stay at and see ourselves at long term. So everyone was kind of out for themselves, right? ⁓ I remember a manager that I had, it really great manager that I worked with, and ⁓ said, know that we have all of these really great initiatives that you're bringing to our table. I know that you have such a passion for diversity. You such a brain for talent strategy and talent acquisition. It's just amazing. But if it doesn't ⁓ give bottom line dollars, I don't want to hear about it. You know, and so at the of the day, ⁓ when we to ⁓ say ⁓ our or our talent is our best asset, ⁓ how are supporting that structure? And Is it a sustainable strategy? If you're saying we just want to give every single person their own personalized coach and we want to give everyone all of these great resources of support, remember that bucket of, you know, screening, sourcing, screening, selection and support. If we're going to give them so much in the support realm that they're never going to want to leave us, but we're going to be bleeding money trying to do that, it's not, it's not going to work. So have often said, I care more about your people than you do. ⁓ when I tell you, what talent strategies we're gonna put in place, it's because I really, really, really care about these people that are coming through the process. I care that they stay and that they are happy. And I care that you have a great organization filled with people that are highly engaged, highly productive, all that. But I want to focus on sustainable talent strategies, not just ones that get you what you need right now and you're coming back to me year over year over year. That might be a great business model, but I just don't think that way. I want you to be sustainable. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hahaha Tiffany Dougherty: and with or without me and that means looking at your talent, yes, is the greatest asset, but how sustainable are those talent strategies? That's what we're talking about with clients. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So for example, you walk into company for the first time. What are those signals that tells you whether their talent strategy is healthy or broken? Tiffany Dougherty: Yeah, I think that the to retention cycle is an interesting model for me to look at. I don't think of one without the other. I didn't know that people talent acquisition or in recruiting weren't thinking that way, ⁓ they weren't thinking about retention. Again, it makes sense when you're in the staffing industry days of my career ⁓ you would think about, I want my candidate to stay as long as they possibly can at that company because I'm going to make more money on them. at same time, thinking about it in a realm and thinking about it in a startup realm and these smaller, ⁓ high growth or ⁓ companies that doing large revisions and revamps. It's like if I come in and I can see that your recruiting to retention cycle is broken in some way or it's not communicating or there are not systems in place to set up how good you did in the recruiting realm versus how good you're doing in the retention realm and vice versa. Like not gonna work. So ⁓ often see these flags, some of the red flags are TA and HR don't talk. I also that Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Tiffany Dougherty: what I'm hearing from the senior leadership is not matching what I hear from the individual contributors. Or I see, you know, it goes further than just, you know, ⁓ engagement survey. When I've heard my HR counterparts talking about, ⁓ know, the engagement surveys and these results and these are the areas that we need to work on, I've well, did anyone ⁓ ask how want to be engaged? ⁓ Not has an opinion on everything. So ⁓ I that, you know, when I ask people about all of the priorities of the business, they might have one thing to say about one area. we often try to ⁓ on everything and put everything on everybody. again, thinking of the lean teams that I've worked with, that's not, if it's outside of their purview and if it's not gonna affect their day to day, I mean to say they don't care, but they might not care as much as something that really impacts them. if we don't have a pulse on that, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ha ha ha. Yes. Tiffany Dougherty: at an organizational level, at a management level, at an individual level, you know, what is it that impacts your day to day? Then we're going to have broken systems. We're going to have lot of hurting cats and a lot of, you know, like spinning plates and all the analogies that we make about like chaos. We're going to have chaos when we're trying to accomplish any one initiative. So again, I think that cycles connecting make sense to me. Communication is great, but what are we talking about? Is it about what actually makes a difference in the day to day? Or are we just talking esoterically? Are we talking big picture and like nobody's ever gonna see that reality come true? So those are some of the red flags that I see in organizations when I come in. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So you already mentioned about ⁓ the TA and then the HR is not talking to each other and then the high level and then those who are on the bottom are also not aligned. So for example, how do you translate the CEO's growth goals when he talks to you into an actionable people plan? Tiffany Dougherty: Right. I think that, you know, when you think in terms of, know, KPIs and ⁓ you know, what it's going to take for us to get to that. I love breaking down, you know, the here's the goal, here's the things that we need to do day to day, here's the things that we need to do at an individual level. I love breaking those down. And I write all of the KPIs, I can write all the OKRs, I can put together all these beautiful project plans for everybody to do. But again, there's a trust factor here. There's an element of trust that if I can't develop that first, there's no amount of translation. It's really going to be a little bit of an echo chamber. I'm going to keep saying what we need to do. We're going to say, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to do it my way. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hahaha. Tiffany Dougherty: and then I'll come back to you with the same results that you're asking for. I think to translate what needed from the senior executives or from the C-suite ⁓ level ⁓ to individual contributors, I think that process has to be flipped on its head. We have to ask first ⁓ where things at at the individual contributor level to know how it's impacting what challenges are being addressed at the top level. Oftentimes I think that that is the misnomer is that they think the senior executives just aren't leading well enough or they don't know their strategy should be and we need to redo all this. And I've worked with a lot of organizations that are backed by private equity firms and venture capital firms. So when something's not working, they change it real quick. ⁓ get, they ⁓ things around, they'll shake it up and it gets done, you know? But I've been somewhere in the middle and in those upper tiers and even down in the individual contributor levels. I'm looking at what is happening the ground up. That's where I always want to be. I always want to play on all levels because I can see ⁓ how impacting ⁓ the that are executing on these ⁓ objectives. I see what's happening. So ⁓ I ⁓ if going to translate from the top to bottom, we've got to learn to speak from the bottom up. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: I agree with that. So that's also one of the principles that I do when I go to an organization. You know, the feedback from the ground is always gold. You know, it's a gold mine of, you know, transformation initiatives that you can go to. Yeah, and then for example, you mentioned about you have work in the private equity and then of course there's a speed of hiring for this. So how do you balance the speed of hiring with quality of fire without sacrificing culture? Tiffany Dougherty: Right? I love that you mentioned culture because at the end of the day, I really have that focus on culture and it's a really interesting change and a shift that starts happening at the 50 to 100 employees, the 100 to 150, and then you get to your first 200 employees and then here we're off to the races. We're racing towards 500, you know? We're getting bigger and bigger by the day. So I think the way that I manage Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ha ha ha. Tiffany Dougherty: with quality ⁓ doing that on the front end. ⁓ Again, I categorically with ⁓ how are improving each ⁓ bucket of process, each section of this process, if you will, our sourcing bucket to be just as strong as how we screen. selection bucket has to be just as good as our support functions. ⁓ We have to make sure that all areas of this talent model are healthy. what I see is, you know, a speed to market. We gotta get it, get it, get it, get it. We gotta get people in, we gotta screen, and we gotta, and you've got a large pipeline that going to ⁓ screen, you no idea ⁓ how they sourced. ⁓ You have idea where they're coming from, and it's an unintentional ⁓ process. So think that making things more intentional. that we know how we sourced and where we sourced and we included specific areas of focus that we want to pull out in our workforce. We want to make sure that there is diversity of opinion and representation in our process. ⁓ want to make sure that we're hiring from the best of the best of local colleges or certain partners. We want to make sure that we're engaging our communities, whatever that like. whatever that model looks like, we want to make sure that we were as intentional in the sourcing as we were on what questions are asked in each interview. We can get really confident in that area and that realm of our process and we would think, oh, well, if we just interview them well, we're going to get a great hire. If our interviewing and our selection processes are tip top shape and we're perfect in that area, then we're going to have a quality hire. Wrong, wrong. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: You Tiffany Dougherty: That does not always equal the latter. I think that making sure that each area of the process is just as healthy as the other ⁓ the way that you can manage. And you can still go through that process very quickly. You can get very, very good at doing things well. ⁓ let's not kid ourselves in thinking that we can just ⁓ in on one part, ⁓ the selection area, ⁓ then get a quality higher. That's not what we're going to do. So hold of that problem. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, yeah, yeah. Tiffany Dougherty: and get speed to higher Julius Neil Buenconsejo: candidate journey and then when it comes to employees, another journey for them. Tiffany Dougherty: Right, that bifurcated process that we hate. I think that ⁓ you were to have a focus only on the candidate side of the process, you would have ⁓ for... Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah. Yeah. Tiffany Dougherty: for days and days. would have enough work to keep people busy for a long time. And if you were to focus only on the employee side, you have enough work on that side too, right? I think that the mistake that is being made is that you're trying to use the same people, processes, and systems to manage for both. You're trying to spread your resources too thin, and somebody's getting short-changed. I'm sorry to say, you know, we... We oftentimes just look at candidates as expendable resources, but they are an actual very, very, very valuable resource. And when you cultivate that resource well, you can have people that are lined up for positions coming up, especially in high growth stages. I hated seeing some of these pipelines getting burned through when we had other roles coming up and we could be making our jobs easier. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. Tiffany Dougherty: I also think that the reason why, you know, there is that separation from candidate to employee is because and TA are not talking at this handoff process. They're tossing it over the fence and they're saying, here's my hire, good luck. They're now ready for onboarding. And HR takes them under their wing and they say this, this is going to be great and I'm going to shepherd you through this process. ⁓ you know, then there's a pass off to their manager, you know, and there's a whole other communication breakdown that could happen there. But I think that there is a responsibility, real oneness that needs to happen on both sides of the house to say ⁓ and TA not only need to be talking, they need to come to the table, read from the same sheet of music like I was talking about before, ⁓ they need to make sure that they know ⁓ is happening. throughout that process. easy ways that I think they could do that is ⁓ your recruiters to your next talent mapping session with your hiring managers or with the managers in the organization. ⁓ also, ⁓ the hiring managers and maybe even some individual contributors ⁓ the team and invite them to ⁓ kickoff meeting for the next role that they're going to hire. So that way you can ask those questions ⁓ about what the employee experience is actually like so you can. relay that into the candidate experience. It's what's being asked for on both sides of the house, but we're not answering the call if we don't have the info. And so that info share needs to happen. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, so personally I have experiences also. So when the talent acquisition manager, for example, or specialist talks to me, so I feel like there's a culture fit. I like this company because they are the frontliners. So I know that the company will fit my values and all these several things. And then during onboarding when I'm in HR, it's like a totally different world. So I will like, what happened? What happened? It's something like... Tiffany Dougherty: Right, Right. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: It's not fit anymore, but you're already there. You know what I mean, right? So for this gap, for example, how do you think AI can mitigate this close the between the talent acquisition and then the HR? Tiffany Dougherty: Great. Right. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: how do you think AI can mitigate this close the gap between the talent acquisition and then the HR? Tiffany Dougherty: Yeah, I think that the AI modeling and some of the processes around culture, ⁓ being to sit down and identify ⁓ pieces of your culture ⁓ that need to be Yeah, I think that the AI modeling and some of the processes around culture, again, keeping mind that there is a human in this process and that AI is going to give you all of the greatest research. can even tell you ⁓ what of the best companies do in some of these areas. ⁓ But able to sit down and identify ⁓ pieces your culture ⁓ that to be questioned in the interview process that need to be demonstrated in the employee engagement process. We need to know markers we're looking for ⁓ terms of culture. questioned in the interview process that need to be demonstrated in the employee engagement process. We need to know markers we're looking for ⁓ terms of culture. ⁓ culture is not a stamp and repeat. It's not that I can say I understand one culture ⁓ one company and I can repeat that at the next company. I can't even take the same processes from one company to the next ⁓ they're often so different. and the way that the organization is set up is so precarious that you want to make sure that it's catered enough without being too complicated. I think that AI can uncomplicate ⁓ process by saying, ⁓ are our core tenants. These are the things that are most important to us as an organization. Develop me, ⁓ AI, model, whatever... platform you're using, develop for me some interview questions that address these key points in our culture and how they've been demonstrated in previous roles. on the employee side, these the ⁓ culture that we want to see demonstrated within our employees. So ⁓ generate ⁓ ideas on we can get more involved, both internally and externally as an organization, in developing these qualities in our teams and in our individuals. That is an obvious starting point. But then as you look at, you know, difference that you were talking about, the difference in culture between You know the the good sell which is really what it is It's a sell that this recruiter is giving to the candidate and then what they actually bought on the back end with the HR processes I think that that comes with a bit of you know involving both sides early and often so that that way you're not Guessing on the recruiting end what it is that you they're getting into on the HR side they need to know what's going on in the TA side so that that way they can set Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Hahaha Tiffany Dougherty: people up for success. If they were to have just a slight bit of customization, again I'm not trying to make it too complicated or too cumbersome, but if they had a slight amount of customization in that support function of the business they said this person's priorities as we've learned from the interview process ⁓ ⁓ mobility, recognition for job well done, and this is the way they like to learn and this is the way they like to work. You know, if they knew that, if they knew just those things, which is a very, very, very, easy assessment survey that you can implement in any hiring process, it takes less than five minutes to implement and, you know, probably incrementally better hires when you do it. But if they were to just implement that and know that going into it and customize some sort of a strategy on the employee side to say, this is going to be your career map, these are going to be your options. That would create so much stickiness in that retention side of the process that I think you would find that there's more synergy between the culture that's being promised versus the culture that's being experienced on the employee side. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: are some ⁓ or some friends or colleagues that I have talked with and some of them already experienced this AI interviewer as the front line. What do you think about that? Tiffany Dougherty: Right, I think that a lot of things that are well-intentioned can make lazy recruiters. I think that there is a responsibility, I'm going to use that word for lack of a better term, but ⁓ there a responsibility for recruiters to take ⁓ ownership ⁓ each of the process. And when you're saying that you want the initial interview to be done by AI, Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Tiffany Dougherty: you had better know. not saying that it's a bad thing. Sometimes it can be a good thing to use, you know, AI tooling on the front end, but you'd better know what it's screening for and you'd better know how it's affecting the talent that you are engaging with. Sometimes AI is not appropriate for all scenarios or for all hires. I've been involved in a lot of ⁓ executives and C-suite hires ⁓ if I were to send them to an AI interview bot, ⁓ that that would burn a relationship immediately. So think that there needs to be more focus on how candidates are sourced and also how they're being screened and making sure that it makes sense for each role and for each organization. ⁓ What I like seeing is that recruiters are facing, ⁓ you know, mountains, as I've called them. They are ⁓ mountains of of thousands. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Tiffany Dougherty: thousands of apply clicks that you see on some of these jobs on Indeed and LinkedIn, you know, and you're like, how is any one person, how's the best person going to get through that hiring process? How are they even going to get to the recruiter's eyeballs? How are they even going to see them? So you have to know how to filter without being And you have to know how to be selective without being exclusive and really discriminatory. So think that AI bots can, ⁓ get too much in the realm of, know, create incentivizing to the wrong thing. They're just getting the first, you know, cumbersome interviews out of the way. I don't want to have to do all of that. So if that's the incentive, we got to take that AI bot out of it. We've got to make sure that those recruiters know what they're, they've got to do the work. And then if it is, you know, creating ⁓ an unsavory candidate experience or if it's not getting us to a better hire. we've got to rework it, we've got to retool it at very least if we're going to keep it. So I think that the incentivizing to the right thing and also just making sure that the recruiter still takes ownership of process and knows how to source and screen correctly ⁓ just expecting AI to do everything for them is probably my best solution or my best ⁓ just to the wise in that area. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so you've been to a lot of boardroom meetings, you've talked to lot of C-level executives already when it comes to consulting. What do you think of the AI in the boardroom? What do you think of the AI in the boardroom? Tiffany Dougherty: Yeah, I think that AI in the boardroom can help us remember what it is that we talked about because there's a lot that happens in those rooms and there's a lot of excitement. There's a lot of passion. Sometimes there's some yelling and screaming, you know, there's some some chaos that happens in those rooms sometimes. So I think that AI having a way to give us, you know, very, very clear notes on what happened and summation points. But also when you come Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hahaha Tiffany Dougherty: So I think that AI having a way to give us, ⁓ you know, very, very clear notes on happened and summation points. But also you come with your homework to a boardroom, are incrementally ⁓ your impact in that boardroom. So AI can help a lot of senior leaders do that and it can help them to look outside of their specific department or business unit ⁓ and say, ⁓ my industry and what might I need to ⁓ be prepared for as a senior with your homework to a boardroom, are incrementally ⁓ your impact in that boardroom. So AI can help a lot of senior leaders do that and it can help them to look outside of their specific department or business unit ⁓ and say, ⁓ my industry and what might I need to ⁓ be prepared for as a senior can help with that. I do not think that humans can ⁓ think that they know more than AI would. I think that's an ⁓ obvious ⁓ But think when you allow AI to work for you and you allow it to partner with you and support you ⁓ in some of this knowledge so you can go into these meetings more educated ⁓ and prepared for what needs to be done, that's going to make better meetings all around. But it's also going to, again, bring level of ⁓ and clarity to what it is that we talked about and ⁓ it is that we're doing ⁓ we leave that boardroom ⁓ how impactful and how the adaption of some of those things after the fact ⁓ can make a difference when you use AI and when you have that partnership and that help from that tool. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so moving forward, the top leaders, top CEOs. So how do you convince a skeptical leader to invest in AI transformation? Tiffany Dougherty: Right, I think that when talking with person about AI, it's very polarizing. So oftentimes, ⁓ I'm use an example from a little bit further back in my career when ⁓ we talking about some job that we to use and somebody was like, me LinkedIn or get me Career Builder, that was the big one back in the day. Let's just do that. first ask why. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes. you Uh-huh. Tiffany Dougherty: It's the story of a thousand whys for me. When a or any ⁓ senior wants to use AI, I ask why, what do want it to do? And then we get a little further and I also say, you know, what exactly, who's gonna be responsible for it? know, so there's a few who's and a few how's in there, but really another why and another why and tell me why, explain to me. You know, I'm not always asking why as the first question, first word of every question, but ⁓ like seeing ⁓ leaders change and some of their positioning some of their opinions ⁓ of of those why questions. I've even had diversity initiatives that have been cut from the table because they could not answer why. enough times to sufficiently make me feel like they knew what they were doing and they were going to be responsible with some of those initiatives. So I don't want to give you a tool as if I'm handing, you know, toy to a child that could just like color all over the walls and like make a mess, you know. I want you to know why and what and how so that that way you can select, number one, the right tool. It's not one tool. ChatGPT isn't going to fix all of our problems, you know. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: you Tiffany Dougherty: knowing what tool to use. ⁓ then also, it's making sure that you understand how this is going to impact your organization at a fundamental level. ⁓ just you have AI and just because you're incorporating it doesn't mean that you are ready for it ⁓ at fundamental transformational level. So if you haven't done the due diligence to educate your teams ⁓ and sure that they know what this is gonna do for them, again, in their day to day and how it's gonna make their jobs better, not always easier, but better and then how we're going to transform as an organization. I think we have to have that conversation first, otherwise just giving you AI and convincing you that you need it is going to be short-sighted at very least. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: you're big on tech enabled practices. So how should companies think about AI and automation in talent negotiation without losing the human element? Tiffany Dougherty: Right. think, like I said before, the ⁓ factor in recruiting is that the recruiters need to know what the AI tooling is doing and what it's not doing. There's still ⁓ this element. Humans like talking with humans. Humans like engaging, and there's no substitute ⁓ for of the customization in the human elements that can happen. So ⁓ I can that you're smiling, that you're nodding, that you're giving me some good signals, that what we're talking about is what you want to talk about. Sometimes that is lost, even when we had nothing but the phone to interview people with back in the day. ⁓ AI cannot give me ⁓ of the ⁓ ⁓ that I need intangibly sometimes. So that's why I encourage recruiters to ⁓ tools to make some those administrative or cumbersome just irksome tasks more automated. a great function of AI. It's a really easy ask for people to say if you really don't like doing that, why don't you figure out how to use AI and have that be your solution, have that be your tool. ⁓ But think one further, what I think needs to happen is that recruiters really need to make sure that they are a good shepherd of the process. They are shepherding people through the process so that that they're not just clicking buttons and sending through automated emails and that's, know, sufficing for all of the human elements ⁓ their job. ⁓ think that there is a balance, there's a perfect balance of both and again, would say again, incentivize them to the right things. If you say you want them to get a certain number of hires, they're going to figure out how to make AI their, you know, their master throughout the whole process because AI can do things faster, ⁓ faster does not always make better. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: You Tiffany Dougherty: So be careful with what you're incentivizing people to when using AI, because we can figure out ways to make AI do just about anything. And I want to do the right things throughout the process, even if it takes a little bit more time even if it takes a little bit more thinking. And last thing that I'll say on this, cause I know I'm probably going to get long-winded on, this particular topic of misused AI can be in this recruiting realm. But I would say, ⁓ I say to make sure that recruiters are Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Hmm, yeah. Tiffany Dougherty: you know, taking the time to learn and that they are still doing their own research and they're still staying at top of their game because when you use AI to do everything for you, it's somewhat of a if you don't use it, you lose it sort of capacity. So I want them to still stay sharp and still stay ready as they can as individuals to be prepared to talk about what's going on in the industry, their talent pools, their pipelines, their how to do this. If you expect AI to do all of this for you, you are going to be obsolete. You are going to be a non-essential function if you are just allowing AI to do all of this for you. There still needs to be that human in the process that says, I feel like this would be the better route to do this, that and the other in this process. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: What do you think is the number one skill that AI would from an HR professional if they use AI as ⁓ artificial tool, doing their work for them? Tiffany Dougherty: Yeah, I think that prioritization ⁓ their work is really important ⁓ recruiters can get a little overwhelmed. I mean, everyone and the whole talent process, you know, there is so much on ⁓ HR generalist plate. There is so much on a CHROs plate. There's so much on ⁓ recruiter's plate. So when you walk into your day, do you know what the first most important thing that you're supposed to do today is? Do you know what that is? If you cannot answer that in the first five seconds of your day, you need AI. You need to find a tool that helps you with that. I don't know all of the emails that come in while I'm sleeping. I don't know what candidates have applied while my recs have been out there for the weekend. I'm not monitoring that day in and day out, but that is a really great automation function and a great AI tooling. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: You Tiffany Dougherty: a lot of ⁓ tracking systems, lot of HRAS tools, ⁓ are getting more intelligent to be able to bring that snapshot of your day ⁓ right the forefront. So think that is one of the biggest places of pain, ⁓ sources of to most teams to just, ⁓ what is most important thing that you need to start your day with doing? know, if some people say, while it's checking all of my emails and the other one is like, no, it's actually checking all of my applications. It's like, well, let's figure it out. Maybe you were right. Maybe everyone does something a little bit differently, but if you don't know where your biggest focus needs to be ⁓ out the gate, first thing of the day, then we've got some work to do. can retool that with AI. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So you've been in the you started your own company nine years ago. So you started in consulting and then what was your first reaction when AI becomes mainstream? How did you react? Is this going, yeah. Tiffany Dougherty: Yeah, I mean, I was actually admittedly a little under a rock myself. I was in a room with some interns. We had just hired some summer interns and I was that program and I was talking with them and I was telling them, we're gonna go to this town hall, you're gonna hear from our senior executives. ⁓ as came back from that meeting, I was letting them know, know, in these town halls, in case you didn't know, in case this is your first, you know, big job, you know, and professional job, you want to take some notes so that that way you know what's important for your role and what you're supposed to do. And what they mentioned in there was about chat GPT, like don't put industry company stuff into chat GPT. I said, I don't really know what that means, but just. don't do it, okay? Like I'm making a joke and you would have thought I had two heads. They looked at me like I was the oldest dinosaur they'd ever met. You know, like what? You don't know what chat GPT is. So I felt like my parents, I felt like, you know, I didn't know what social media was or something. So on my way home from that trip, I stopped in the airport bookstore and I picked up chat GPT for dummies. And I read that on the plane and I swore I would never be on my heels again in terms of technology. ⁓ been a forward thinking, ⁓ really lean the change management pieces of things. I've been really excited about the innovations. I'm an industry disruptor. I love all of the... the change agent processes of my industry. But when I was presented with this AI thing, you know, I didn't understand it. So I made it my job for a little bit to be that AI expert when everyone was still warming up to it. No one really knew what was going on and how it was gonna be impactful for all of our departments and all of our industries. ⁓ And I think that AI has become more and more and more and more at the forefront in the last year or so, but at the same time, I'm still constantly at the forefront in my own research. If there's something, an AI tool that I don't know, I kind of do the same thing where I just want to go through ⁓ Claude dummies, the Gemini for dummies, all of different things. Tell me what it is that it does. I, number one, don't look stupid in a boardroom again, or I don't look stupid in front of a bunch of interns. But I also think that it's important because I am advising senior leaders. And if I am not, there's an intellectual capital that I need to be able to offer to them and say, ⁓ know this because I've researched this and you can trust that I've stayed up on this. ⁓ ⁓ reason why I stay really, really close to what's going on in the realm of AI. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: That's why I ask you that because you are in the traditional way of consulting and then suddenly AI will have all the information even though it's not yet perfect but they can just ask. If they have a problem, they can just ask that and then in the ⁓ change management landscape really changed because of this chat GPT. So as a founder of your own firm, so how did you from the traditional change management strategy to an AI Transformation Specialist. Tiffany Dougherty: Sure. And so I started out coming off of the heels of my corporate career. You know, I had big dreams, big goals, and I just, wanted to really help everybody with everything. That was really the consulting brain that I had. It was just so wide and roomy and inclusive. was all encompassing for everybody. And I found that what made the difference is when I focused in and I honed in, on certain elements of, you again, that talent strategy. And what made it more adaptable to focus more in the AI realm is because AI and functions the way that my brain has worked for a long time. It likes to create patterns. It likes to come up with categorical areas of focus. It likes to know everything. Yes, I like being a know-it-all. I like to know everything about everything going on around me so I'm not caught off guard. It really, it functions the same way that a good consulting brain could work. And I've heard people say, know, oh, I'll just ask chat GPT how to write my job descriptions. And I'll just, I'll ask chat GPT where I should find the right talent. And to that, I would say yes and what do you do next? Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ha ha. Tiffany Dougherty: What happens next if you don't know? if you haven't been in the trenches like I have and seen how some of these initiatives have fallen very flat or they've gotten people in a lot of trouble or you didn't know ⁓ all these things to ask it, you know, they say it's it's what you put in is what you get out from AI. So when you are not educated. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Ha ha ha. Tiffany Dougherty: and knowledgeable about all areas of the process and the industry that you're talking about and the type of company that you're working within, you're not going to know how to tell that AI bot what you need, how you need it, when you need it by, and who's going to be impacted by it. You will not know. So I think we're treating AI like it's a faster Google ⁓ we should be, you know, taking it as a strategic partner saying, I'm gonna bring my AI hat with me today and I'm gonna make sure that I have that on when I'm looking at everything so I know what not to waste my time on and what's really impactful for me to use my human brain on and how to consult in this manner. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah, that's great. So this is my last question in our segment. So if you could redesign the future of HR from scratch, what would it look like? Tiffany Dougherty: I would refocus it on the human-centric processes. I would probably put the individual first, and I would say from this point, from this individual that we have in this process, how do you want them to feel? do you want them to do? ⁓ do you want to incentivize them to do that? What do you want to put in place to support that? How do you think that's going to make them show up in this organization? And then, How do you think you're gonna find that person that's gonna show up in this organization like that? So take everything, goes back to the human-centric processes of That's how I would rework it. Oftentimes, HR has been a function of the business. It's been to support the organization. ⁓ been to enact the marching orders of each of the departments and business units. ⁓ it's an insulation function. ⁓ know, it kind of becomes a way to. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: you Tiffany Dougherty: Everyone talk with each other and make sure everyone's, you know, moving right along. It's like a happy family. But HR could be so much more if it were focused on the individual and the human-centric processes of the company. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yes, thank you very much for that very profound explanation of how you look at the future of HR and if you could redesign it from scratch again. And thank you very much for all the insightful conversations that we had. I really enjoyed conversing with you. It's already almost an hour, so I would like to go into our last part. Tiffany Dougherty: Yes! Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So what's one tool you actually use every day? AI tool. Tiffany Dougherty: I do use ChatGPT and ⁓ Canva, like they're my best friends, they're my executive assistants. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: So what's one task AI has already 10x'd in your life? Tiffany Dougherty: that prioritization that I talked about. So how do I know what I'm walking into in a day? How do I know what happened when I was sleeping if I don't use AI? Really getting that clarity first thing in the morning has really alleviated a lot of stress. My blood pressure is much lower now with that. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, what's one human skill AI can never replace? Tiffany Dougherty: trust building, like I said, the trust between humans is not going to be replaced by AI. ⁓ Julius Neil Buenconsejo: And then if you could automate one annoying thing forever, what would it be? Tiffany Dougherty: Probably emails, ⁓ ⁓ could automate it. ⁓ used a lot of talk to text and lot of, know, just let me talk this out while I'm doing something else, you ⁓ really having an automation function in emails where it sends ⁓ type of person this message, ⁓ sends this type of contact another message, ⁓ can alleviate a lot of my flip-flop back and forth as to which brains I'm using to respond to those emails. So that's one thing that I think I would love for it to do. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, what's the biggest misconception about AI, right? Tiffany Dougherty: it's gonna take your job. It's not here to replace, ⁓ here to augment. It's a partner. You should use it as such. And it's here to stay. It's not going anywhere. So the fact that we're still having this struggle around how to get board with AI, ⁓ we're the times if we're still asking those questions. It's here to stay. Let's figure out how to make it work for us. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, what advice would you give someone who wants to become 10x starting today? Tiffany Dougherty: ⁓ I would say think of the one thing that is going to make the biggest impact in your day tomorrow and in your week and in your month and focus on that one thing until you're a master at it, until you have it completely solved ⁓ then move on to the next thing. Multitasking is often a myth. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: what would you tell your younger self about the future? Tiffany Dougherty: would say just do it. You can't break it. You can't hurt it. You're not gonna, you're not gonna, you know, ⁓ anything ⁓ ⁓ know, I that the perfectionist brain was so, so, so ingrained already when I was so young that I wanted to know everything about everything before I tried anything. ⁓ So would say fail forward, early, fail often, learn, go forward, keep going, just do it. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Mm-hmm. Okay, so what's one book, podcast, or resource that shaped your thinking about AI or innovation? Tiffany Dougherty: Well, I mean, I could probably say that book from the airport, the chat GPT for dummies was really great. No, would say there's been so many different leaders that I respect. Trent Cotton is one has a really great lens on AI. I say that other, ⁓ you AI tools ⁓ that used like Canva. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Yeah Tiffany Dougherty: They have ⁓ an event once a year where they show all of the new tools and all the special bells and whistles. And I feel like I don't have enough time in a day to use all of the things, all of the amazing things that they bring out. being able to tap into those resources has been able to ⁓ incrementally increase the impact of my business ⁓ by ⁓ keeping ear to what those people in those places are saying. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: If we had to bet one AI trend that will be massive in three years, what is it? Tiffany Dougherty: Hmm. would say that going one further from digital or virtual assistants, it's the digital delegation. It's the category management of ⁓ bots and ⁓ making internal agents. I think eventually we'll be able to augment the communication that happens across all business units and all partnerships. ⁓ with the use of AI agents so that that way we can spend less time in some of these perfunctory meetings and our calendars are filled with all of these meetings and we can make sure that we're just being more efficient using those kind of tools. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: Okay, so my last question. What does the 10X mean to you personally? Tiffany Dougherty: I think that it really becomes about ⁓ the intentional efforts that you make each day. When I'm intentional about what I'm doing and who I'm going to impact and ⁓ I'm going to help and add value to this day, ⁓ have a much different day than if I just kind of blithely go into my day. So I think ⁓ is about really amplifying your intention behind what it is you're really there to do that day. And makes all the difference in the results and the work that I produce. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: If our viewers or watchers wanted to ⁓ get in touch with you ⁓ and if they have some transformation projects or other consultancy wanted to ⁓ talk to you about how do they reach you. Tiffany Dougherty: Yeah, you can find us on LinkedIn, Ardent Services. Also online, it's www.ardentservices.org. So a pretty easy place to just find ⁓ all the great resources there and get in touch with me personally. Julius Neil Buenconsejo: All right, thank you very much for your time again. And you enjoyed a lot of our conversation. We talk about the different aspects of HR, talent acquisition, and then the AI transformation. Thank you very much for your time. Tiffany Dougherty: Thank you so much, Julius.