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No Comment · Hell and Gone: Murder Line

• 0:08
  Speaker 1: School of Humans. Hey, man, what's up. Hey, how's it going.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: It's going okay. A guy just called me and said
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: we're in a fight against God and Satan and demonic entities,
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: and it was just insane, insane. After a long week
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: of writing an investigation, I'm very ready to get home,
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: and as per usual in the Ozarks, I have no
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: cell reception. But this time, when I get back into range,
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: my phone has one hundred miscalls and text messages. One
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: of them is Chris's sister. So here's what happened. I
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: hear that Chris has been arrested. It turns out that
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: he was arrested for making terroristic threats and for burglary.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: That's what I hear. Even though I don't think Chris
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: had anything to do with the murder of Rebecca, he
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: is not doing himself any favors by visiting her ex
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: boyfriend's house. Chris's kids are getting tech, according to the sisters,
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: saying that you know your dad's a killer, and it's
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: just awful. This is an awful situation. In September of
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: two thousand and four, twenty two year old Rebecca Gould
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: was brutally murdered in a remote area of the Arkansas Ozarks.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Fourteen years later, her killer is still out there. I've
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: come back to Mountain View with one mission to get
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: justice for Rebecca. I'm Catherine Townsend and this is Helen Gone.
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: The story we heard from the police is that Chris
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: went over to Justin's house and he told him if
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: he talks, he'll kill him. That's not what happened. Chris
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: and his friend happened to be over Justin's house because
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: of was had a friendship with Justin's wife or whatever,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: and they were over there to see her. And you know,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: then Justin came home and I'm sure because of the connection.
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: I'm sure there were words exchanged about the case because
• 2:17
  Speaker 1: they haven't seen each other in a long time. But
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: that wasn't the cause of him going over there at all.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: Tommy went over there, not Chris. We don't know what
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: went down behind closed doors. It all sounds very fishy
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: that that Chris is the only one with charges against him,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: and he gets charged with burglary, not because he took anything,
• 2:34
  Speaker 1: but because if you're at someone's house without permission, you
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: can get charged with burglary. I think it's very fishy
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: also that A headline came out in the paper saying
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: suspect in two thousand and four murder as if you know,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: it just looks like they're trying to throw it on
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Chris once again. It feels like that. It really does
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: extremely guilty right now? Is there overall where Chris did
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: do it? No? No, I mean I do and he
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: doesn't help himself. Wait, so when did this actually happen?
• 3:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know. The article got posted yesterday, but from
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: what I from what I hear, it was a few
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: days ago. I'm trying to I'm getting the affiday but
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: now and figuring out when it happened and getting all
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: the details. Well, I mean, where the case right now?
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: That's it. Dennis told Chris's sister that all the evidence
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: in the case points to Chris and that he wants
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: to get this case slid before he's retired. And he said,
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: all the evidence points to Chris. Your family's trash and yeah,
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: I mean that's that's what's on. You said that to her.
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: I believe her. So that's what's going on. But they
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: don't blame us. The good the good news from that
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: is even Chris and his sister don't blame they know,
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: like they're calling us and trying to help, so get
• 3:55
  Speaker 1: this right. The sister's trying to bail him out, and
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: she's like, Chris keeps saying, and this is so Chris,
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: my word is my bond. I don't need a lawyer.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: I've got my word. And I'm like, you know, you
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: might not want to get him lawyer, and she said,
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: I'm trying to get him a lawyer. We don't have
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: any money, Chris. This is like the fifth job. Chris
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: is lost because these guys keep arresting him. You know,
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: she said, Now he's not blameless in this. Chris does
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: some really dumb stuff. You know, he's getting himself in trouble.
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: Now that Chris is in jail, it is even more
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: vital that we find Rebecca's killer. I reached out to
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: Casey at the beginning of my investigation and he hasn't
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: gotten back to me yet, even though he's the one
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: person who's been officially ruled out as a suspect by
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: the police. Now I want to find out if his
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: AWLIBI is as air tight as they claim it is.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: I still have hope. I mean, maybe I'm wrong and
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: maybe and look if he doesn't. If he doesn't get
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: back to us ever, maybe it will come to knock
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: it on his door. But like, I still have some
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: hope that he might get in touch with us. Everyone
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: said how much he loved her and what a good
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: guy was. There's that topics Did you see that topics
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: port about him, and it says, sorry, I met this
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: guy named Casey something and he used to sing in
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: a band. Anyone know who I'm talking about? Yeah, And
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: then and then everybody says, well, this one says, fairly
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: decent guy. I think he works at Melbourne Sonic. He's
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: really sweet. He's been done wrong by the past. Yeah,
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: it's definitely haunted him. It's definitely hot. It seems to
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: have really haunted him, and now he seems to be
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: happy and settled and everything. But it's really it's also
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: really crazy because you think about it and you're like,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: she should have all those things. She should have a
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: husband and a baby, and you know, she should have
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to be an aunt to her sister's kids
• 5:38
  Speaker 1: and you know, all those things, and like she doesn't
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: have any of those things now. But then eventually it's
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: gonna be like, look, dude, like you say, you love
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: this girl. You know, she was so important to you,
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: and like she got murdered brutally, you know something. And
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: if he has nothing to hide, he should be willing
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: to talk about it because that was his friend and
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: he loved her and you know, and he should want
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: to find who did this. Not only that, but I
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: mean his house was destroyed. I kissed if somebody murdered
• 6:07
  Speaker 1: somebody in my house. So we go back to the
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: timeline and what we know of September twentieth, two thousand
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: and four. Casey told police that after Rebecca dropped him
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: off at work in the morning, he was at work
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: all day until his shift ended. Then he went to
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: the movies and stayed out with his friends that whole night.
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: But some people in town have heard a different story.
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Remember Alicia, she was the plumber's daughter. Her husband was
• 6:34
  Speaker 1: the one who owned the sonic where both Casey and
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: Rebecca worked. She were saying, like at his place, I
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: thank when she would come up from school, but not
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: you know, she wasn't It wasn't been a full time
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: thing that she was there all the time. But I
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: mean they were together quite a bit. They always worked together.
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: I know on that particular day. It was weird day
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: that she had brought him to work and dropped him
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: off that day. I don't know why. I think maybe
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: because she was up on school, she was at working.
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure she wasn't off on break or something,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: but she had dropped him off for at sonics that morning.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: That was the last fan that he saw her. The
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: very fact. They said that he had went, that he
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: lest work, and I guess Rebecca wasn't supposed to be there.
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: She was supposed to be leaving to go back to Fayetteville.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: And so he left work with a friend and they
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: actually went out to the movies and you know, hung
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: out that night, and he said he didn't return home,
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: you know, till really late and into the next morning.
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: I think they said he was there for the whole
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: entire shift that day, and that he left work with
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: that friend of his, and that they were supposed to
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: go out to a movie. Or what she's saying matches
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: the story that was reported in the papers and what
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I've heard from others. Casey was at work all day
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: and out with his friends all night. He was really
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: shook up. He seemed like it after you know, they
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: don't want to Reaca about what I found odd was
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: he said that he went back to the house and
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: that he couldn't tell anything that happened there, but that
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: her stuff was still there and her belongings. And I
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: just think that's not accurate, because you know, they said
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: that you could physically tell something happened, and how could
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: you go into your own home and not notice that
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: something happened there, or to how to say that you
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: don't noticed that something happened. I just I don't understand that.
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: Do you think that your ex husband could help us
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: with the records of who was working at Sonic that day? Yeah? Probably?
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: All right? So Licia unloads some new information I haven't
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: heard before. She said that Casey may have stopped at
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: home at some point before he went there with the
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: police on Tuesday. Your call has been forwarded to an
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: automated voice messaging system. He's not available at the Tell him.
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Please record your message. When you've finished recording, you may
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: hang up form Alicia's husband, Joey isn't calling us back.
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: Sometimes people don't want to get involved because they're hiding something.
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: Other times, especially in this case, it can be because
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: they are scared. George has proven to be a valuable
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: member of our team. He's the only one who was
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: there at the time reporting on the murder and is
• 9:41
  Speaker 1: emotionally and physically removed enough to give me some real answers.
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: What do you think about Casey? Now? I don't know.
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: He talked to me several times, initially after her body
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: was found, and then I contacted his wife, his now wife,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: probably in twenty sixteen. I called her at work and
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: she's like, oh, because I wanted to talk to him,
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: you know, because I want to to kind of update
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: the case, and I wanted to get dive into some
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: more details because, like you said, it's been you know,
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: at that time, it had been twelve years. I mean,
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: you're getting to the point where it doesn't matter if
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: you're still interviewing people. This is a cold case, and
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: you never know when one little thing will break in
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: a case. One story runs, one rumor starts, and then
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: all of a sudden, everything changes. So I just wanted
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: to talk to him, and so I called her, and
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: she was really nice, very nice, very friendly, gave me
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: her phone number and his phone number, and I tried
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: to contact him and he would not talk to me. Well,
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: then I try to contact her, and she wouldn't contact
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: me back, and she had told me. She goes, oh,
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: he'd love to talk to you. But then so then
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: I finally contacted her at work again and I said, hey,
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: I've been trying to get ahold of you in casey
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: and I haven't get hold of you. Guys, she goes, oh,
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: he doesn't want to talk about it. He doesn't think
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: it'll do him any good to talk to you. And
• 11:02
  Speaker 1: I said, well, that may be true. I mean, I'm
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: just a journal but I would like to talk to him.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: You know, the story is, you know, she went and
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: dropped him off at work, and then she went to
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: the Possum Trot convenience store, got a couple of things,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: and then left went back to his house, and then
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: somewhere sometime during the morning she died. Well, then he
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: got off work and then he went to it stayed
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: at night at a friend's house, and then went straight
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: to work the next day. So he never returned to
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: his house to see the full new clothes and all
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: this other stuff. Well, then I heard a separate story
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: that he did go home the next morning to get
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: some fresh clothes for work, and so I just you know,
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: that's a kind of a big detail. It's a big detail.
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: So I just wanted to know. And you know, he
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: obviously didn't want to talk about it, and to this
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: day I have not spoke to him about it. I
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: tried to, but he just doesn't want to talk. Turns
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: out he's heard the same thing we heard that at
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: some point before the police arrived on Tuesday, Casey went
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: home to change shirts. Even if her car was just
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: still there, he still wouldn't have left, you know, to
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: go to a friend's house, do you know what I mean.
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: It never made sense to me that he there. Yeah,
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: everything was there. I mean, even if you wanted to assume,
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: let's say her car was there. Let's say he comes
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: home the next morning, sees her car there. Maybe another
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: friend came and picked her up, went and stayed the night,
• 12:17
  Speaker 1: you know, with another friend. Something happened to you know,
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: she was supposed to pick her sister up. Maybe the
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: arrangement changed. She wouldn't have left her purse. In his defense,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: to this degree, we don't know for certain that he
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: returned to the house. That it's it's just again a rumor.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: When you talk to Casey, what did he seem like
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: when you seem really emotional upset. He seemed really distant,
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: like you could tell that there was a shock factor
• 12:44
  Speaker 1: with him. And I was actually at the Sheriff's department
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: when they brought him in for questioning one time, and
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: the family was there, and I mean there was fire
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: in a lot of those people's eyes. And actually one
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: of Rebecca's ex boyfriends, Justin, he was there and he
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: started like just tears started coming down his face and
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: he was really angry. It looked like just watching the
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: police lead him into the Sheriff's department. Considering that we
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: now know Rebecca and Justin saw each other just a
• 13:12
  Speaker 1: week before her death, I can't imagine the tension inside
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: that police station. So when I talked to him, he
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: seemed shocked. I talked to him maybe twice after that,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: and he just very quiet, very soft spoken. You know
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: he you know, I suspect he probably knows some things,
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: but you know, I can't He won't talk to me,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: so I can't prove it. So I might be scared.
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: He may be scared. That's that's a very viable possibility.
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: Being like a CUB reporter at the time, I made
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: some mistakes because he did talk to me after the fact,
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: and I could have found these details out immediately. All
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: I had to do was ask the questions and guess
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: what didn't ask questions, And so now I have to
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: spin my wheels fourteen years later to try to find
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: the answers. Now, I think that Casey at one time
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: may have been named as a suspect quote unquote, but
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: they cleared him pretty quickly. Now, Casey did tell me
• 14:10
  Speaker 1: that they did interview interrogate him hard. I mean he
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: literally said that they just came at him, I mean,
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: and they were very combative, telling him he knew it,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: he knew they knew he had something to do with that.
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: He knew something. So but anyway, it would be nice
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: if you know they should have some suspects. We'll be
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: right back until we can find someone else who knew Casey.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: Danielle will have to help us understand Casey and Rebecca's relationship,
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: which seems more and more complicated the more we learn.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: They I think went out for over a year. I mean,
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: he was obsessed with her. He wrote music about her, poems,
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: you know. Every now and then he would freak out.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: He was very He's kind of controlling. And on our
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: way back to Mountain View in the car, Rebecca had
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: said we had she had mentioned Casey and she was like, Hey,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: he wants to be my boyfriend, and you know she
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: didn't want that. So that was really strange that she
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: had said that after all the years and just not
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: getting anywhere. I don't know, Yeah, what do you think? Yeah?
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: And you were saying his dad wouldn't let you search
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: the land or he wouldn't like we were allowed to
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: search the land? No, which seems really weird. That's where
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: it happened. Yeah, and they're really good. But he's supposedly
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: really good friends with her and loved her, so right,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: why wouldn't you let you search? Right? We've heard that
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: Casey's dad supposedly did not allow the land surrounding the
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: crime scene to be searched. Was there no search warrant?
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: And how much land are we talking here? Yeah? I
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: feel like we got a lot to do. So I
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: need the address for the Isra County assessor because I
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: have no is There county assessor. Let's see. So we
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: drive to Melbourne to get the tax records to find
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: out we're trying to find out I'll not need to
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: go to the park's office. But if we're trying to
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: find out who owns a piece of land, okay, well
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: that's the thing. They have the address I have, I
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: have it on that and there have been two different
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: addresses for it. So can you do it by cordinate me?
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: You know, I'm sorry. Okay. So it would be like
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: this area right here, does it have a house on it? Yes,
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: so there should be an right So where from this
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: is the property that you're looking for. It's sort of
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: behind it, so the house is behind it. The house
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: is spread by the road, and then it's like there's
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: some land behind it. Okay, so it's just the raw
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: land that you're asking. Yes, it's who owns it. That's
• 17:19
  Speaker 1: who owns that's who owns the mobile too. How far
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: does his property? How far does that property line go?
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: He's got kind a bit of property there. Wow, it's
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: a lot. Okay, thank you very much. Back at the car,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: we unroll the map from the assessor. So this is
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: the house. That's the trailer house, right, so look where's
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: where's Highway nine? Anyway, just for my own interest, I'm
• 17:43
  Speaker 1: like glad we saw that because he has a big
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: ass piece of land back there. I'm just curious to
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: see if there was a quicker way for Casey to
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: cut through, or anyone else to cut through. It's only
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: about four and a half miles in that cut through,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: and it's a really well paved road. I found another
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: back road. There's a dirt road that starts out right
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: next to Sonic in Melbourne and comes out on Highway
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: fifty just under a mile from Casey's house. I drive
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: slowly down the dirt road, passed several farms and over
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: a rickety wooden bridge. It's about four and a half
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: miles from the Sonic to Casey's house, about ten minutes,
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: and I didn't pass one single car on the road.
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: I kind of can't let go the fact that Casey
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: could have left work that day, and again, since we're
• 18:28
  Speaker 1: trying to rule him out as a suspect, I just
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: want to explore every possibility for how he could have
• 18:33
  Speaker 1: gone between those two locations. One of the questions we've
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: been trying to answer was whether Rebecca's body was taken
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: straight to the dump site or kept somewhere else and moved.
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: So we take another look at the autopsy, reading through
• 18:47
  Speaker 1: the gory details of the kinds of insects that consumed
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: Rebecca's body makes me feel in a strange way like
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: I'm invading her privacy. But it's one of the only
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: pieces of solid physical evidence that we have access to
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: in this case. So we owe it to Rebecca to
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: leave no stone unturned, even if the details are stomach turning.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: This is doctor Eric Merritt. He's a forensic entomologist. Most
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: of the time, and I'd say ninety nine percent of time.
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: It's a group called the blowflies, and these are the
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: green and blue bottleflies that hang around your garbage can
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: and if there's rotting meat, these are the first flies
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: to come to a body, whether it be a deer, rabbit,
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: or anything that dies. If you put it out, say
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: in the backyard, the first thing that come to him
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: within minutes will be blowflies. So what happens is as
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: soon as a person dies, they give off odors, okay,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: and generally they come into the ears, no eyes, nose,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: and mouth. That's their first area they come to and
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: lay their eggs. So within ten to fifteen minutes after
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: someone dies and they'll come in and they'll lay their eggs.
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: Within twelve to twenty four hours of dead bodies, and
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: once they lay their eggs in these maggots what we
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: call the eggs hatch into maggots or larvaew we call them.
• 20:22
  Speaker 1: And these things hatch from the eggs after twenty four
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: to forty eight hours, and they go through a number
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: of what we call stages or in stars, in stars
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: the scientific term. But they hatch, they molt, and they'll
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: be a bigger larvae, and then they'll mold and they'll
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: be a bigger larva. And so they grow at a
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: constant rate based on temperature. It was Arkansas, Indian summer.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: During the week Rebecca's body was in the woods, the
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: temperature climbed a highs around eighty five degrees. So what
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: we do is when a person found like this body
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: I read your report where she had maggots won sixteenth
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: to one half inch. So the one half inch would
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: indicate that there's probably some late stage larvae that are
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: ready to migrate away from the body and go into
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: the soil and turn into what we call the resting
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: stage or the pupa, and then eventually they'll come out
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: as an adult. These are probably third instars. It goes
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: through three in stars, first, second, and third, and there's
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: certain characteristics of the larva that we can look at
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: and determine what stage they're in. When I saw that
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: half inch, that's about fourteen called the fourteen millimeters, and
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: that's about a third stage larvae. So it's based on
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: the normal development of a fly that I'm used to
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: that would be about a week old. Doctor Merritt explains
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: that while it's not an exact science, forensic entomology can
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: be one of the best ways to determine time of death.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: I've heard, for example, someone talking about this case. They said, oh, well,
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: based on the maggots, they can get the time of
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: death down to like thirty minutes, And I didn't. I
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: from everything I know, that's not true. If you can
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: get the depth down to win a thirty minutes based
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: on magots, then you should be a suspect. But if
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: you can get better than anybody else generally by the
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: medical examiner or by the detectives and stuff like that,
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: and even the anthropologists, you can do better than they can.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: So if you have a magets and you collect them,
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: and you know, we can identify them, and we can
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: do pretty darn close to when that person probably died,
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: but not thirty minutes or anything like that. Based on
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: my drive through the back roads, I estimate that someone
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: could have killed Rebecca and disposed of her body in
• 22:54
  Speaker 1: under an hour. All of the evidence points to the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: fact that she was in the woods for a week
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: and that her body was put there within a few
• 23:02
  Speaker 1: hours after her death, not kept somewhere else. We'll be
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: right back. During our investigation, we've learned a lot about Jennifer, Chris, JB,
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: and Justin, but more than anyone else in this case,
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: Casey is an enigma. By all accounts, he was distraught
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: after Rebecca's death. He's the polar opposite of Justin, JB.
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: And Chris, who come across as tough. Casey is the
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: acoustic guitarist, strumming, sensitive musician who wrote poems to his girlfriend.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: For several years after Rebecca's death, he traveled around the
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: country working various jobs. A few years ago he'd moved
• 23:53
  Speaker 1: back to Melbourne. His new wife is attractive, young and blonde,
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: just like Rebecca. She worked at Sonic too. They got married,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: They had children. At least on the surf, Casey seemed
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: to find love and live happily ever after, the happy
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: ending that Rebecca never got. But what I can understand
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: is when everyone else in town was searching for the
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: girl he was madly in love with, Casey seemed to
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: be m I a. Casey is the only person we've
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: looked at so far who didn't help with the search.
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: I tracked down Casey's friend Patrick at the store where
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: he works. He's friendly and welcoming. When I tell him
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: I'm there to talk about Casey and Rebecca's murder, he
• 24:36
  Speaker 1: takes me into the back office. Casey's one of my
• 24:38
  Speaker 1: best friends. Yes, yeah, Casey. After the whole or dealer
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: and everything, of course, you know, he was still standing
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: out there at the trailer, which he hated. I ended
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: up talking to him and we let him move, actually
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: move in with me and my wife, and he stayed
• 24:53
  Speaker 1: with us for I don't know how long long time.
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, I still remember that entire day. I was
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: actually in town getting We had one of our lug
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: nut bolts on our tire break off. We had to
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: get it fixed, heard about it and everything. But I
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: remember right after that all happened and everything else I
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: heard about it. I remember Casey and them, saying that
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: he had nothing out with laring to them because we
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: were going We used to have a huge group of
• 25:18
  Speaker 1: saw people Every Wednesday, we'd go out to Larens and
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: have this Halo night where we would bring TVs and
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: xboxes to play. After I heard about everything else, of
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: course Casey was distraught, and while he was I guess
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: being interviewed and everything else, I went around town to
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: the different gas stations and stuff, asking and saying, hey,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: do you have any cameras pointing towards the road, trying
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: to verify his story everything, And I guess the Possum
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: trot or he used to be paulsing Trot has some
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: cameras out there and which we informed the police about.
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: And then I guess that's one of the cameras they
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: found when you guys when he went to Larenz. Do
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: you know what he was doing that night that I
• 25:55
  Speaker 1: don't that I don't so back then, which I don't
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: know if it's changed now as far as fight with Larying,
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: then we've all they've all had whole house slipped forward.
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: But back then, you know, they were big into marijuana.
• 26:10
  Speaker 1: Stuff like that smoked marijuana and that was their big things.
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: So I imagine if they got together, that's probably what
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: they were doing that night, which I guess they probably were,
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: because I guess whenever Casey did the light detector and
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: tests stuff like that, I guess there were some issues.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: If you smoke marijuana so far before you take one,
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: they say you can mess up the tests or something.
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: I called a polygraph examiner and asked if marijuana can
• 26:31
  Speaker 1: make you fail a light detector test. He said, without
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: a doubt, marijuana cannot make you pass or fail. What
• 26:38
  Speaker 1: was their relationship like his and Becca's far as a
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: no good? I mean, I do know they had some
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: issues as far as, like, you know, staying together, because
• 26:47
  Speaker 1: I guess there were some other guys that it was
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: in a relationship before Casey and you know, so there
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: would be breaks up, breakups and stuff like that to
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: where she would go back with one of them. But
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: far as I know, there at the end they were
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: doing great. He was pretty distraught about it. I mean,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: like I said, for a long time and when we
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: lived with us, he was he was scared to even
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: be at the house by himself, you know, because he
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: didn't know what or who happened to her. Of course,
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: you know, of course we all had our suspicions about
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: some certain individuals out of the mountain view and everything.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: But like I said, he didn't of course, you know
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: what if they come after me, you know what if
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: they have any things like that. So he was always
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: bearing not I remember first couple of nights and stuff.
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: For the first couple of weeks that he actually stayed
• 27:28
  Speaker 1: with us, he wouldn't go in the trailer. If we
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: were gone, like a convas with something, we'd come back.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I would go into the trailer, check everything, make sure
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: you know, no one's hiding out of there. What happened
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: to the trailer? Ever? Is it still there that he
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: lives in it now? Back in he didn't live there
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: for like I said, a couple of years. At least
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: his dad still live there. Then I guess his grandpa
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: ended up going into like some top of nursing home
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: or something. So his dad moved out of the trailer,
• 27:53
  Speaker 1: moved in with moved into his panpa's the place. Just
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: to clarify, Casey is living in the house that his
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: girlfriend was murdered in. Well, then, Casey I believed that
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: the times actually there's a cabin on the same property
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: is down all he was standing living down there for
• 28:08
  Speaker 1: a little while and he ended up being his wife
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: that he's with now, Hannah. And then after they started
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: getting married and they found out theory and I have
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: a kid, they moved into the trailer last living ever since.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: What sort of Casey theory or your theory about who
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: did it? So? I'm not real good with names. I
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: don't remember names. It's hard hard to remember them. But
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: of course there was one of my old bosses, what
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: was her name, female, Jennifer, Yes, yes, Jennifer. And there
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: was one other, but I didn't know that individual. I
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: guess it was from what I understand was her dealer
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: at the time. Sounds like Patrick is just regurgitating all
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: the rumors. So what is Casey's theory? You know? I
• 28:54
  Speaker 1: think about it, especially whenever I see stuff on Facebook
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: about it and stuff like that. I remember about a
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: year ago, year and a half, two years ago. I
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: don't seem like I was that long. I saw the
• 29:03
  Speaker 1: thing pop up on Facebook where they talk about how
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: they had a lot more leads about they heard some
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: college students and stuff over and it was our college
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: talking and stuff talking about them committing the crowd and everything.
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: So I was hoping. I think, okay, well great, you
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: know it's finally going to again too. I was really
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: you know, but and then just got off nothing. Yeah,
• 29:22
  Speaker 1: i'd heard, and everyone's related and everybody. It's just a
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: tough it's difficult to untangle. I've never once thought Casey right,
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: never once, just because I've been friends with him so long.
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: But almost seemed like the person had been at the
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: house before, because I knew where everything was at cleaning supplies,
• 29:42
  Speaker 1: you know, things like that using the watcher. It just
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: seems odd to me that someone feel comfortable enough to
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: stay there at the house end that much time. Thank
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: you very much. It was one number, and yeah, I
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: feel think of anything. Family, I'm glad to go to
• 29:54
  Speaker 1: somebody's actually looking at it. Yeah, I'm on I'll connect
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: on Facebook. I'm on Facebook too, and we do like
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: updates and stuff. But sure, Yeah, I met Casey when
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: he was with Rebecca. I think we're at Tiffany's graduation
• 30:12
  Speaker 1: in Fabelle and all my kids were there and Casey
• 30:18
  Speaker 1: came with Rebecca, and so I met him there. Other
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: than that, I don't think I had met him before.
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: I don't remember because it was just you know, yeah,
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: it was I was involved with Tiffany, and but there
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: were photographs and I just don't I don't remember having
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: an impression of them. Rebecca's father didn't know Casey very well.
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: They only met once. I mean, did you see him
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: at all that week? No, not that I recall. But
• 30:48
  Speaker 1: you have to remember that I didn't know some of
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: these people. I would be introduced to some people and
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: then I could place them, but there was there were
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: there were so many people out there that were helping
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: that I was introduced to. And of course we were
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: you know, you're just you have tunnel vision. You're just
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: not looking at Hey, this person over here could be
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: the killer. I'm pretty sure that Justin was there, and
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: I think Justin was there with his new girlfriend who
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: was pregnant, and I believe I got introduced to her.
• 31:28
  Speaker 1: And aside from that, we just went off looking and searching.
• 31:33
  Speaker 1: So nothing, nothing made any sense. But then then everything's gray.
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I know, Casey got back
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: in the trailer and the things were unlocked. It was
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: left in a state where somebody could come in and out.
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: But if these other state police guys came, they would
• 31:55
  Speaker 1: have known enough to to, you know, kind of set
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: up a perimeter around it or something where people couldn't
• 32:03
  Speaker 1: be there. But and why they didn't, I don't know.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: It could be that it was because the jurisdiction is
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: set up initially that it's the sheriff's department, and that
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: at some point it gets turned over to the state
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: Police at the request of the sheriff's department, And how
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: much time went by until that happened could have been days.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: According to multiple sources, Casey walked in and out of
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: the crime scene. Former Izard County Sheriff Joe Martz talked
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: to Ak Barnes in twenty sixteen about the crime scene.
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: He was open about the fact that the local sheriff's
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: office was overwhelmed. He said that investigators spent thirteen hours
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: inside the house bagging evidence, so many that he had
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: to go to Miller's grocery store to get more paper
• 32:47
  Speaker 1: bags and boxes to send to the state crime lab.
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: He said that they took hundreds of items from the
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: trailer and turned the case over to the Arkansas State Police.
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: Larry has also heard the rumors that Casey went home
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: at some point before returning to the crime scene on
• 33:01
  Speaker 1: Tuesday with the police. I wonder where this rumor originated.
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure Danielle told me her mom called the police.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: Have to look back at everything to make sure. But
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: also there was a note that her mom had gotten
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: a call from Casey that was alarming about the stuff
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: being in the house, but she wasn't. Her stuff was there,
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: but she wasn't, So I guess I'm just wondering, was
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: that while the police were there or could that have
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: been If that was before the police got there, then
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: that means that he went home before the police got there,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: and that would conflict with the story he told the
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: police where heard the two stories that he that he
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: went home and actually went into the trailer before anybody
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: knew anything. And I don't know, if you can't talk
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: to him, you can't pin it down now, he told
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: he called either Danielle or her mother, and he also
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: just said, aple of people, it's on it. Yeah. So
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: that's what we're working on out because as soon as
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: we can get someone saying, as soon as we have
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: someone nailing down saying that he said that, I mean
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: that totally the reason in my opinion, he was written
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: off as his suspects early is because of the altby.
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: He supposedly had this alby and he was gone the
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: whole night and multiple witnesses and all this. So if
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: we can show that he there's a hole in that,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: then I mean there's something weird about his story no
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: matter what. So yeah, and even the various descriptions of
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: what the trailer was like, I have something in writing
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: that one of the loustters that came in later said
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: the thing was just what was his expression? Not disheveled,
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: it was can't think of the term, but it was
• 34:43
  Speaker 1: a mess. And then you have others that said that said, well,
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: I didn't notice anything, So I can't believe the case
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: He would have could have gone there and have Rebecca's
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: car there perse there obviously some other things were there
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: that we know now, and he didn't that something was wrong,
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: and then all the other things that you know about
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: just doesn't make any sense. Casey shut down, and Casey
• 35:17
  Speaker 1: to me still has to be one of the primary suspects.
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: And the fact that he won't come forward and spend
• 35:25
  Speaker 1: time really talking to people and going through things and
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: showing his innocence and answering questions, a lot of the
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: answers that I've seen in written form, answers that I've
• 35:36
  Speaker 1: seen in and just responses he's given other people conflict.
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: According to Larry, the events after Rebecca went missing or
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: a blur. Remember George Jared described him taping up Rebecca's
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: missing poster over road signs on the Highway. It's obvious
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: that he was devastated by Rebecca's death. Both Patrick and
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: George mentioned the fact that Casey was distraught after Rebecca's murder.
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: And we know that trauma can make people behave irrationally.
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: We now know that justin, Jennifer, Chris and JB were
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: all around, all of them searched for Rebecca, all of
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: them except Casey. Now it's just becoming a glowing red flag.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Every single person. Chris and these guys have so much
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: to lose if they say the wrong thing. And they're
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: still cooperating, right, all these guys. The one that's not
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: is Casey. We did get to one of Casey's friends,
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: but I really think it's the Sonic people who hold
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: the key to if or when or how Casey may
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: have gone home on Monday. Nobody seems to know shit
• 36:42
  Speaker 1: about Casey, who's in this friend group. By the way,
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: they didn't even really know Rebecca was Datingum. And he's like,
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: I didn't know that guy. I think I met him once.
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: And Chris is like, you know, I didn't know where
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: that cat. I didn't even know where that place was.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: I'd never been there, told the police I'd never been there.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: And that's like a bold statement. He's like, take my
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: DNA because I've never been there. None of these people
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: went to that cabin. Not only that, but they just
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: don't look like people that would mesh at all. Because
• 37:06
  Speaker 1: we were kind of talking about it, Casey's like, he's
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: in a band, he's kind of he was a little
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: bit more. He was a hipstery hipstory dude. You know,
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: like smoke Pot went to Larren's house of smoke pot,
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: like playing a band, Like you said, yeah, pot was
• 37:20
  Speaker 1: the drug of choice rather than meth, and like you
• 37:23
  Speaker 1: know what I mean, Yeah, yeah, surely, yeah, Casey, definitely. Yeah.
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: They just didn't mix. They just didn't. They were in
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: different cities, different groups of people. This whole rumor that
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: they were all partying at that house just never happened.
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: That never happened. As far as I know, Casey's not
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: even real, right, Yeah, he could just be a fake
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: Facebook account, you know, like you're right, there's there's literally
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: it's like a ghost hound. Then all of a sudden,
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: our ghost appears. Casey sends me a Facebook message. He
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: tells me he doesn't want to talk and that he
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: has a family he needs to protect. He declines to
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: speak with me and makes it clear that the only
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: people he will with moving forward are the police. It
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: looks like if we're going to find out more about Casey,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: it's not going to be from him. Oh yeah, no, listen,
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: it would because we've heard obviously, like we've heard some
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: of these names. I'm sure in some rumors. But if
• 38:22
  Speaker 1: the person who actually heard people talking about it is yeah,
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: that's really valuable. And I mean, no, listen, I really
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: really appreciate. I mean I wonder, I mean, did did
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: Casey have any theories about who did it? Over the years? Yeah,
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: because that's been that has actually been one of the
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: things that struck us about it, that the you know,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: that place is so remote, you know what I mean,
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: It's like, who would know who'd be able to know
• 38:53
  Speaker 1: that it was there? That's been kind of a from
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: the beginning, you know. All right, thank you so much.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: All right, thanks bye. Okay, that was extremely interesting. This
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: is Casey's best friend. Interesting for reasons other than you know,
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: it's not like, oh he thinks he did it. No,
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: it's this is his best friend. He basically lived in
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: that house at the time, lived in that trailer. You know,
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: he was there all the time. I was very I
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: wanted to ask him way more questions, but he was
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: kind of like kind of had to go. And anyway,
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: he basically he works around town. He is a coworker
• 39:36
  Speaker 1: who he said, this guy said he heard the other
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: day about the case getting reopened, so that's obviously through
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: our stuff, and he was talking about it with the
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: co worker, and the co worker sort of said that
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: he heard it a party, that it was a group
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: of people who did it, and was given details and things.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: But interestingly, he was out of town for like three
• 39:58
  Speaker 1: days during the murder. He was working on a tugboat,
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: I think, he said. But when he got back he
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: said Casey was staying with his sister. And he also
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: said that Casey cried in his arms about it, and
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: you know, it was just all upset, right, But he said,
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: you know, really it really got to me. That cabin
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: so remote, nobody knows where the hell that place is.
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: You know. He was literally saying that, and he goes,
• 40:27
  Speaker 1: I straight out asked him, did you do it? He said,
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: friend of friend, did you do it? And then he
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: kind of went off and he goes, of course he
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: was at work, so blah blah. He just kind of
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: went off. But I'm thinking, like, like you can feel
• 40:38
  Speaker 1: the wheels turning. He said, they were still really close,
• 40:41
  Speaker 1: but like because Casey had a girlfriend, see, and everyone
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: in Casey's life refers to Rebecca as the girlfriend, but
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: everyone in Rebecca's life refers to Casey's just like some
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: random guy who's like around and he's like, well no,
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: He's like he it was just really painful, and I'm sorry.
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: If your girlfriend got fucking murdered in your house, You're
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: gonna solve it. You're gonna We're gonna be like us
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: times one hundred on steroids. You're gonna be like, I'm
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: gonna solve this. I'm gonna find out who did this
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: in my house, who came into my house and killed
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: my girlfriend. You're not gonna be fired up. I mean,
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: I get you go through Peter Greek. But after a while,
• 41:19
  Speaker 1: you notice everyone else we've spoken to Chris JB. Everyone
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: has theories or at least an idea of what even
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: if if they don't know. They sit there and say,
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: you know, I've thought about it for countless hours. It's
• 41:33
  Speaker 1: haunted me. And yet this is Casey's best friend saying, well, no,
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: I kind of wait for him to bring it up. No,
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: he didn't really have any theory. You're gonna tell me.
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, if it were me and it was my boyfriend,
• 41:45
  Speaker 1: I would have a murder board in my house, and
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: I would probably like I'd be like the guy in
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: the Vanishing, you know who, like took a hotel room
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: and put red strings everywhere. I do think that there
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: are people who feature in this tale who may have
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: at one point bragged about it or may have known
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: people because just because they were either because they're trying
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: to look hard and tough. I could even see Jennifer,
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: even though even if she had nothing to do with it,
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: She's got this hard bitch image, do you know what
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: I mean? So I can see her plan. I don't
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: see a downside to kind of I see why, I
• 42:15
  Speaker 1: see why that would happen. I'm not saying it did,
• 42:17
  Speaker 1: but I'm just saying when he told me, he asked
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: his friend and then he on his own brought up
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: the remoteness of that location. Of course he was at work.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: Is not really what you want to hear. You want
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: to hear. There's no way im for could have done that.
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: You know, he doesn't have it and he never would
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: have hurt anybody, not while he was at work. Oh Catherine,
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: here's the other thing that really bothers me about this
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: whole investigation has since to start. In part of your
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: victimology profile, you're supposed to interview the people closest to
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: the victim. And I don't know if the police talk
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: to Danielle or and by the way, she's a trauma victim,
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: so like at the time it should have been done
• 42:52
  Speaker 1: in a way like a very sensitive you know, you
• 42:55
  Speaker 1: gotta be really careful with trauma victims, and you know
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: this is the person that your best Okay, And I'm
• 43:01
  Speaker 1: just not sure that they ever. Don't think they ever
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: got anything about the temper or you know, any of
• 43:08
  Speaker 1: these things about Casey. I just I don't even know
• 43:13
  Speaker 1: if they ever I don't know if they questioned her,
• 43:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm Katherine Townsend and this is Helen Gone.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Helen Gone is a joint production between How Stuff Works
• 43:43
  Speaker 1: in School of Humans. It is written and recorded by me,
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: Catherine Townsend. Taylor Church is our producer and story editor.
• 43:51
  Speaker 1: Audio editing and designed by Jonathan Sleeve, mix engineer Glenn
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: Mattulo audio mixing and love by Tunewelders. Executive producers Brandon
• 44:01
  Speaker 1: Barr and Else Crowley for School of Humans and Connell
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: Byrne and Bryant for How Stuff Works. Our field producer
• 44:08
  Speaker 1: is James Morrison. Our researcher is Sandy Klosterman. Themon original
• 44:14
  Speaker 1: score by Ben Solee available wherever you get your music.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: To dig into the investigation, please visit helengonepodcast dot com
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: or follow us on social media. School of Humans