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How to Communicate Confidence under Stress in Sales with Dan Rochon · Healthy Happy Wise Wealthy

• Mary Meyer [0:05]: Welcome to Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy, the podcast where we talk about how to make our lives happier, wiser, and wealthier, but first it all begins with our health. I am your host, Mary Meyer. Mary Meyer [0:17]: Hi, everyone. Welcome back to Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy. I have with us today Dan Rochon with Teach to Sell. This is his new book that's coming out, and No Broke Months. Welcome, Dan. Dan Rochon [0:29]: Hello, Mary. Mary Meyer [0:30]: Yeah. So wanna tell everyone too we have a podcast sponsor, MindIII, M-I-N-D-I-I-I, an IT- IT company out of India. Mary Meyer [0:38]: I worked with them on a business that I owned, Dan. I had a online store as one of the sales things I did, is sell things online. Mary Meyer [0:45]: And, uh, they were the... You know, you outsource a lot when you own a business, right? Mary Meyer [0:50]: You talk about that on your podcast. Dan Rochon [0:51]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [0:52]: So they were one of the ones that I, that I outsourced to, and the only ones that I would probably work with again, so, I- Dan Rochon [0:58]: What was the name of that again, Mary? Mary Meyer [1:00]: MindIII, M-I-N-D, like mind, with three Is, I-I-I. Mary Meyer [1:05]: So everything from websites, app builds. They're even doing delivery robots right now, so hardware, software, pretty much everything. The whole full stack IT stuff that is beyond, uh- Dan Rochon [1:16]: I want a delivery robot, I think. I mean, just I have no reason for it. Mary Meyer [1:20]: Right? Dan Rochon [1:20]: I just think it would just be, like, cool to have one. Mary Meyer [1:23]: Yeah. They just sent me some info on that today and I'm like, "This is very cool." I can see it in festivals, you know? Like, when you, you don't wanna go wait in line for, uh, 45 minutes to get food, wouldn't that be handy? Dan Rochon [1:37]: There's, uh- Mary Meyer [1:38]: Especially- Dan Rochon [1:38]: Uh, I'm in North Virginia, George Mason University, they have them roving around all of their campus. Dan Rochon [1:43]: And, um, when- Dan Rochon [1:44]: ... the first time I saw them roving I was like, "Oh my goodness, welcome to the world." Mary Meyer [1:49]: Yeah. It can be a little weird, but I can see the, I can see the benefit of it too, you know? 'Cause, like, if it saves us waiting in a long line when we're trying to have fun, I'm all for that, 100%, so. All right, so let's dive into you. Mary Meyer [2:03]: You have, um... Are you still with Keller Williams? I've been with... I was with Keller, Keller Williams at one point as a real estate agent. Mary Meyer [2:09]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [2:10]: I started my career in 2007 in real estate sales. Mary Meyer [2:15]: Oh, gosh. Dan Rochon [2:16]: And before... Yeah, no kidding, right? Like, the best time- Mary Meyer [2:19]: Yeah Dan Rochon [2:19]: ... of the year. Or best time of the c- um, um, uh, not the year, but the best year of, of, uh, you know, to start, huh. Mary Meyer [2:26]: Oh, yeah. Dan Rochon [2:27]: And so- Mary Meyer [2:28]: You know, I- Dan Rochon [2:28]: With that- Mary Meyer [2:29]: Oh, sorry to interrupt you. I was gonna say I started December 2019, so I feel that pain. Dan Rochon [2:34]: Okay. Yeah, no kidding. Yeah. So I started, uh, I started then and then, um, I... Well, before I started in real estate sales I was waiting tables. So I was waiting tables at a, one of the world class restaurants, The Capital Grille in DC. Dan Rochon [2:47]: This was- Mary Meyer [2:48]: Oh Dan Rochon [2:48]: ... be- this was when there was, like, six locations of Capital Grille, so this was when it was a private, you know, a private restaurant. So it was a lot of, you know, cigar smoke in the back rooms, and lobbyists, and famous people, and made a ton of money. I hated my job. Dan Rochon [3:01]: I was- Mary Meyer [3:02]: Oh, good Dan Rochon [3:02]: ... a newly recovered addict and a newly recovered, um, alcoholic. And I'm still sober- Mary Meyer [3:07]: Oh, good Dan Rochon [3:07]: ... today, gratefully. And, and so I got my license and, and I started with Keller Williams Realty. Dan Rochon [3:13]: Uh, my first six months I had zero sales. My next year I had a lot of sales. I, I sort of figured it out. And then y- month number 18 I, I bought the Keller Williams Realty franchise I affiliated with, and then I operated as an operating partner in that role for the next 10 years. I sold that in 2018, and I've since left Keller Williams Realty. Dan Rochon [3:33]: I'm, I'm currently affiliated with eXp Realty. And- Dan Rochon [3:36]: Okay Dan Rochon [3:36]: ... the reality of, uh, whatever real estate brokerage, you know, that somebody should consider, it's, um, I, I would say don't ask what their splits are first. Dan Rochon [3:45]: Ask what they're gonna give you first, understand the people you're getting a relationship with, and then ask, "Well, what do you charge me for that?" Mary Meyer [3:52]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [3:52]: I think people sort of flip-flop the question. Mary Meyer [3:55]: Yeah. Well, and I'm involved, and, and have been my whole life, you know, it s- it feels like my whole life at least, adult life, even teen years, involved in sales in different- Dan Rochon [4:06]: Sure Mary Meyer [4:06]: ... capacities. And I think there's, uh, you know, a lot of people that are listening are entrepreneurs, they're f- in sales full time, or they're business owners who don't know sales. Mary Meyer [4:17]: But if you're a business owner, sales is what you have to do to keep the doors open, so whatever you do. So there's a lot of, um, a lot of things that... And even, like, creative people, you got a creative something that you're doing, a book, a project, and you want to, uh, you're making something with, you know, crocheting something, and now you want to sell it. Mary Meyer [4:38]: So sales is just a part of, in a way it's a part of life if you're wanting to do anything to make your own income that's not, uh, salary. Dan Rochon [4:47]: Well, not just business though, Mary, it's also liv- life and life. Mary Meyer [4:50]: It- Dan Rochon [4:50]: I mean, if you're married you're, you're in sales with your spouse. If you're dating, you're in sales to court. Dan Rochon [4:56]: If you're, um, you know, if you're a parent, you're in sales with your kid, or your grand kid, or whatever the case may be. We're, we're all in... Dan Rochon [5:03]: My definition of sales is it's just to ethically influence. That's all, that's all I define sales as. Mary Meyer [5:09]: Ethic- ethically influence? I like that. Dan Rochon [5:11]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [5:11]: I like that definition. Dan Rochon [5:13]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [5:13]: I did, in college I was, uh, part of a company, I don't know if you've heard of it, called Southwestern. Mary Meyer [5:18]: And so that was door-to-door sales of educational books, um, back when- Dan Rochon [5:22]: Do they do coaching now, by any chance? Mary Meyer [5:24]: What's that? Dan Rochon [5:25]: Do they do coaching? Mary Meyer [5:29]: Do they do coaching now? That's a good question. Dan Rochon [5:31]: There's a company that, it may be Southwestern or something like that, that has evolved- Dan Rochon [5:36]: Mm Dan Rochon [5:36]: ... from, uh- Mary Meyer [5:37]: Yeah Dan Rochon [5:38]: ... that it may be that same company. I don't know. I've got a friend that is a coach with them. I'm not sure if that's the right name or not. But I don't know if I've heard of them or not. Mary Meyer [5:45]: You know, that, I feel like I should know the answer to that question 'cause I still have friends in it, but I, I don't recall that they have that. Dan Rochon [5:51]: Sure. Mary Meyer [5:51]: I know they have different... They have a lot of subsidiaries now. Dan Rochon [5:54]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [5:54]: But, you know, I remember, you know, part of their sales training, and it was really very good sales training, but it was just like what you said, it's, it's that. Mary Meyer [6:02]: And this was my-You know, 'cause I'm more of a psychology person than a salesperson, so I'm a psychology person that's been in sales forever. Mary Meyer [6:10]: And it sounds like you do some of that too with, uh, some of your mindset, the neuro-linguistic programming and that kind of thing. Dan Rochon [6:17]: Yeah. Really... So if you're looking at, like, any business, I, I devel- I, I would subscribe any business into four pillars. Dan Rochon [6:25]: So if you can imagine building a business and you can imagine, like, the root of it would be, you know, believing in, believing in yourself. Dan Rochon [6:33]: So that would be, like, the foundation, the, the, the basement. Dan Rochon [6:36]: And then above that would be, first floor would be lead generation. Dan Rochon [6:41]: Okay? So now that you believe in yourself, now you have to understand how to find business and where to find it. Then it would be organization building on top of that, so the second story would be, you know, to be able to get the support and assistance to support you to scale because you'll run out of time otherwise. Mary Meyer [6:55]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [6:55]: And then on top of that would be leadership, and my definition of leadership is to teach somebody else how to think so that they can get what they want. Dan Rochon [7:02]: And so when you put those four boxes on top of each other and you follow very, very systematic ways through each one of those, then what you gain is I put a big flag at the top of my building and I put a CPI in there, and that CPI stands for consistent predictable income. Mary Meyer [7:19]: Okay. Dan Rochon [7:20]: So when you break apart, like, business, when you break apart sales, there is a d- there is a blueprint for it, and it's not really taught. Dan Rochon [7:29]: Like, it's taught in pieces, but I haven't found anybody that's really sort of put them all together to say, "Okay, wait, here's the order of the things and here's what to do first, what to do second, what to do third." You know? So for example, believing in yourself. I, I talk about a, um, a thing that psychologists say that's a self-coaching model. Dan Rochon [7:48]: And so that means that you, you know, this is the way you desc- this is the way your life happens. Dan Rochon [7:52]: You, you have a circumstance that you observe through your senses, your five senses, and then you, you sort of scrub it. Like, you know, you can only hear, uh, uh, f- uh, 44 bits of data per instant out of 11.2 million options. Dan Rochon [8:08]: So if you understand that- Mary Meyer [8:10]: Okay Dan Rochon [8:10]: ... then we can see, like, stuff happens in your world, and whatever you believe, "That person's a great person," "That person's a bad person," whatever, "They took advantage of me," "They were a blessing to me," there's evidence of both in every single different circumstance because there's so many options. Mary Meyer [8:25]: Okay. Dan Rochon [8:25]: So you have a circumstance. The circumstance gets... you know, goes through those lenses of deletions, distortions, generalizations, and then, uh, you assign meaning based off of your, your, your, your experiences, your upbringing, your culture, your roots. And so the circumstance go through those filters until it becomes a thought. Dan Rochon [8:43]: That thought then leads to a feeling. The feeling then, then leads to an action. Dan Rochon [8:48]: The action then leads to a result, and the result then feeds back into the circumstance. Dan Rochon [8:53]: And if you were mapping this out, if anybody was, like, drawing this out, you draw it sort of like a clock with circumstance at the top, thought to the right of that at, like, the 2:00 position, feeling at the 7:00 pos- uh, no, that's the, uh, sorry, 4:00 position. Dan Rochon [9:08]: I, I know my clocks, right? Mary Meyer [9:10]: Right. Right. Dan Rochon [9:11]: Actions at the 7:00 position, results at the 10:00 position, and then circumstance at, at the noon o'clock position. Dan Rochon [9:17]: And you see it's a closed loop. So what do you do about that? What you do about that is... Dan Rochon [9:23]: The reason why it's a closed loop is because we go through the world in a subconscious state- Mary Meyer [9:28]: That's true Dan Rochon [9:28]: ... a majority of the time. Okay? So you can program yourself so that gap in between the circumstance and the thought, that's the key opportunity for you to be able to believe in yourself. Dan Rochon [9:39]: Okay? So now what you could do is you could do things like listening to the show that you're listening to right now or watching this video that you're watching right now. Dan Rochon [9:47]: You can read. You can listen to podcasts. You can, uh, exercise. You can pray. Dan Rochon [9:52]: You can change your relationships. You can, uh, do affirmations, visualizations, meditations. Dan Rochon [9:59]: These are things that change it from the, uh, circumstance to the thought so that now you can have better thoughts. Mary Meyer [10:06]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [10:06]: Right? And so it's about programming yourself so you can get a better outcome. And so every one of these pillars that I discuss, there's... You can break it down into tangible things of, "Okay, if I follow this, if I follow this pathway, A, B, C, I know what the outcome's gonna give me," and so that's an o- an opportunity there to be able to improve your, improve your life and break that ceiling of achievement, break through it. Mary Meyer [10:27]: Mm-hmm. You know, I've ta- this concept is something I've talked about to a lot of people, and I remember, like, when I was trying to, like, get a handle on some life circumstances, this was really, like... Mary Meyer [10:37]: The concept of, of, um, s- just ref- reframing, for example. Dan Rochon [10:43]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [10:43]: Or, you know... And like you mentioned, there are spiritual aspects of, you know, can... you know, take control of your thoughts, that kind of thing. Mary Meyer [10:49]: But there's, uh, that super... That, that becoming aware of your thoughts is something that's talked about more than practiced, you know? It, it does take- Mary Meyer [10:59]: ... a long time to realize you're going, "Yeah, my circumstances actually, uh, aren't great," for example, and so therefore, so therefore... and then to the next one. Dan Rochon [11:12]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [11:12]: "I'm not gonna make it. I'm... This is disaster." Like, you know, like, "This is..." Like, whatever it is, but it's, it's usually a very negative thought. Mary Meyer [11:19]: So that in between, like, and that's what you're talking about, right? Just- Dan Rochon [11:22]: I am. I'm- Mary Meyer [11:23]: ... going from circumstance to the next thing. Dan Rochon [11:25]: I'll give you a little hack. Like, here's a hack. Mary Meyer [11:27]: Okay. Dan Rochon [11:27]: That we all, we all have in a natural alarm clock. I used to take my phone out. Dan Rochon [11:31]: Uh, where's my phone? My phone's somewhere here. Uh, well- Oh, there's my phone, right where I left it. Dan Rochon [11:37]: So I used to take my phone out and I used to put an alarm in there five or six times a day to remind me to do this activity. Mary Meyer [11:42]: Okay. Dan Rochon [11:42]: But then I realized that that didn't work because the alarm would go off and I'm, I'm, I'm hanging out with Mary. I can't, I can't pay attention to my alarm right now. Mary Meyer [11:49]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [11:50]: And so what the alarm was designed to do was to ask my s- was to, to prompt me to ask myself three questions. Dan Rochon [11:57]: "What am I thinking? What am I feeling? What am I about to do?" In that order. Dan Rochon [12:03]: And it has to be in that order because that, that's the same order as the self-coaching model that I just described to you.Okay? So it goes from circumstance, to thoughts, to feelings, to actions, to results. And so what am I thinking? What am I feeling? What am am I about to do? Dan Rochon [12:16]: When you can program yourself to ask yourself that question five to six times a day, you will begin to noticing thoughts that are not serving you, and then you can alter it. Dan Rochon [12:26]: So because it doesn't work, at least for me, to program into my phone with an alarm, what's a natural alarm that we all have five or six times a day? Mary Meyer [12:34]: Being hungry. Dan Rochon [12:36]: Or- Mary Meyer [12:37]: Going to the restroom Dan Rochon [12:37]: ... after you're hungry, at the end result of being hun- hungry, you use the restroom. Mary Meyer [12:41]: Yeah. One of the two, yeah. Dan Rochon [12:44]: All right? Mary Meyer [12:45]: I got it. Dan Rochon [12:45]: So when you wash your hands- Mary Meyer [12:46]: Second, second, yes Dan Rochon [12:48]: ... when you're washing your hands- Dan Rochon [12:48]: Yeah Dan Rochon [12:48]: ... that should be an anchor. When that water hits your hands, that's an anchor to remind you to, to say, ask yourself, what am I thinking? Dan Rochon [12:57]: What am I feeling? What am I about to do? All right? Mary Meyer [13:00]: That's- Dan Rochon [13:00]: So now I just gave you an anchor, and I gave you a natural alarm clock that when you just follow that one step right there, you could change your life, guaranteed. Mary Meyer [13:10]: So what am I... Say it again. What am I thinking? What am I- Dan Rochon [13:14]: What am I feeling? Mary Meyer [13:15]: What am I feeling? Dan Rochon [13:16]: What am I about to do? Mary Meyer [13:17]: What am I about to do? So feeling is second, 'cause in, in the thing- Dan Rochon [13:21]: I'm not- Mary Meyer [13:21]: ... in the thing, feeling kind of goes third, but in this, in this part, it's second. Dan Rochon [13:25]: Well, we start, we're starting at- Mary Meyer [13:27]: Thinking, feeling, doing Dan Rochon [13:27]: ... you're right. So in the thing I described is circumstance, thoughts, feelings, action, results, circumstance. Mary Meyer [13:32]: Okay. Okay. Dan Rochon [13:33]: Okay? So, so we're starting at the thought because the thought's gonna be the first... Dan Rochon [13:39]: Your thought, well, uh, the- your feelings and your thoughts, by the way, are sort of like a, a barometer or a thermo- they're a measuring stick, okay? Dan Rochon [13:48]: Like- Mary Meyer [13:49]: Right Dan Rochon [13:49]: ... it's a measurement. So when you're feeling great, that's a measurement of you're having great thoughts. Dan Rochon [13:56]: When you're having great thoughts, that's a measurement of you're in a great circumstance. Mary Meyer [14:01]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [14:02]: When you're having crappy thoughts and crappy feelings, it's a measurement that you're in a crappy circumstance. Mary Meyer [14:06]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [14:06]: That's all that that is, right? So the first measurement, the first measuring tool is your thoughts. Dan Rochon [14:13]: So that's where you say, okay, well, that's the first... Like, if I'm having bad thoughts, then, okay, what's going on in my circumstances causing me to have bad thoughts? Dan Rochon [14:21]: Then now could I, how could I reframe that? Because there's 40 or 50 bits of data out of 11.2 million options. There's also another 40 or 50 bi- bits of data if I'm not thinking well, right? If I'm being a victim, if I'm, if I'm, um, you know, thinking, like, bad thoughts or whatever the case may be, I guarantee you there's 40 or 50 different thoughts you can replace them with. Mary Meyer [14:42]: Mm-hmm. Dan Rochon [14:42]: 'Cause they exist out of 11.2 million options. Mary Meyer [14:45]: 11.2 million options. Dan Rochon [14:47]: Every single bit. Every single, every single nanosecond, right? Like right now, if you're watching this right now, I guarantee you I can control what you're thinking about. Dan Rochon [14:57]: And if you don't believe it, I want everybody right now listening to me to think about your big right toe. Dan Rochon [15:03]: Now wiggle it. Mary Meyer [15:05]: Mm-hmm. Okay. Dan Rochon [15:05]: Now, you may not be wiggling it, but I guarantee you you're thinking about your big right toe. Dan Rochon [15:09]: Well, that's one of 11.2 million options I could point out to you. Mary Meyer [15:13]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [15:13]: If I wanna sit there and say, you know what? Your best friend who just stood you up, right, didn't show up when she said she would, well, there's all these negative things I could say about that. Mary Meyer [15:25]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [15:25]: But guess what? I could also reframe it to say, you know what? I love her. She's been my friend forever. She's always showed up. Dan Rochon [15:31]: And, uh, you know, sh- and, and this time it just didn't work out, and that's okay. How can I help her? Dan Rochon [15:37]: Right? You can reframe it if you find yourself thinking those negative thoughts. Mary Meyer [15:41]: Yeah. So, uh, with this, what do you think of... 'Cause I've had some interesting experiences in sales, and some of the experiences are really negative sales managers. Dan Rochon [15:52]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [15:52]: Like, excessively negative as they talk about being positive. What are... Mary Meyer [15:57]: H- have you seen that? What are your thoughts on like where- Dan Rochon [15:59]: You suck, you're better. Be positive. Mary Meyer [16:03]: Oh, it's... And it... What I- I do call it toxic positivity because I've seen it in sales, and it- Dan Rochon [16:08]: Yeah Mary Meyer [16:08]: ... it is, um, it is a saying that you, you're not allowed to feel a negative emotion. If you do, you're subpar, you're lesser than. Mary Meyer [16:16]: Um, and they don't exist. Dan Rochon [16:18]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [16:19]: So if you're having problems, it's your fault. It... You know, and it, it... I think s- what you're teaching, which is so good, can, uh, in some way get, get turned into a thing that becomes, um, uh, abusive. Mary Meyer [16:34]: Uh, you know, it just becomes flat out abusive. So I don't know if you... Do you have thoughts on that? Dan Rochon [16:39]: Yeah, I do. Mary Meyer [16:40]: Okay. Dan Rochon [16:40]: So what I just, what I just taught you was a tool to, to help you with your second thought. Mary Meyer [16:46]: Okay. Dan Rochon [16:47]: Okay? Mary Meyer [16:47]: Your second thought. Dan Rochon [16:47]: Because we, we can all edit our second thought. So what you just described, Mary, is, well, if you have a bad first thought, then you're bad and wrong, and you shouldn't have a bad first thought. Dan Rochon [16:57]: Okay? So what I just gave you was a tool to be able to i- identify a bad first thought and then edit it. Mary Meyer [17:04]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [17:05]: To be able to do that, I'm giving you an awareness tool because y- you really can't do it unless if you're aware of it. Once you become aware of it, now you have a choice. Mary Meyer [17:14]: Mm-hmm. Dan Rochon [17:15]: Now, if you wanna edit the first thought, you can do that also because we walk through life in a subconscious state, and we're able to program ourself consciously. Dan Rochon [17:24]: So that, that's when you sit there and you say, I'm gonna choose different... You know, and I already mentioned it, like, um, different, uh, I'm gonna pray, different relationships, exercise, meditation, affirmations, visualizations, reading, you know, et cetera, right? That's about changing your first thought. Dan Rochon [17:41]: That's about programming yourself. Now, that's a, that's, that's not an immediate thing. Dan Rochon [17:45]: That changes through time, and then what you'll recognize is, is that as you develop that, that you'll recognize that, um, you'll end up with better f- you'll, you'll train yourself to have better first thoughts in the fir- you know, in the first place. Mary Meyer [17:59]: Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I think there's so much to that, and I also think salespeople are the ones that really feel it the most.And I don't know if you've noticed in different organizations, the different... Mary Meyer [18:14]: I, I don't think, like, the, the staff people necessarily understand sales, sales don't necessarily understand staff, no one understands leadership, and everyone doesn't like each other. Mary Meyer [18:25]: Um, so there's, there's, you know? And talks bad about each other. And, uh, I've been in all the positions, so- Dan Rochon [18:32]: Sure Mary Meyer [18:32]: ... there is, there is something in sales in and of itself where it is an energy transfer. Mary Meyer [18:38]: So it... You might have the best product for a, a person, but if you are presenting yourself in a... Mary Meyer [18:46]: If your, if your internal, uh, energy, your internal thoughts, all these things you're talking about are not, uh, in line with... Mary Meyer [18:56]: The, the, the energy isn't there, and they just say no, and they don't know why. At the same time- Dan Rochon [19:01]: Yeah Mary Meyer [19:01]: ... they don't know that they need it, but your energy's there, and they say yes, and they don't know why. I just, I feel like there's so much of sales, and it could be all of human interaction has so much to do with, "I'm so excited about this, and so you're gonna be, too," or, "I am pretending to be excited about this 'cause I need you to say yes." Dan Rochon [19:21]: Well, it does. Definitely there's a transfer of energy, right? In, in, in- Mary Meyer [19:24]: Yeah Dan Rochon [19:24]: ... in my book that's coming out, Teach to Sell, I ta- And so first of all, I, the self-coaching model, I go through that in there, but I also go through what I call the CPI communication model. Mary Meyer [19:33]: Okay. Dan Rochon [19:34]: Okay? So the CPI communication model is a model of ethical persuasion, and it starts at the energetic root of what you just described. So step number one is, of the three steps of the CPI communication model. CPI, by the way, stands for consistent predictable income. Dan Rochon [19:50]: So step number one is to be in rapport. Well, what is rapport? Dan Rochon [19:54]: When I ask that when I'm teaching, a lot of times the audience will say, "It's liking people," or they'll say, "It's mirror and matching." I say, "Well, that's not what r- rapport is." Mirroring and matching could be a way to gain rapport. Dan Rochon [20:07]: Liking each other can be an outcome of rapport. But what is rapport? Dan Rochon [20:11]: Rapport, there was a gentleman, a French philosopher from the early 1900s, he was a priest and a f- French philosopher named Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. Dan Rochon [20:20]: He was the first that I can research that, that shared scientifically that we are spiritual beings manifested in the human condition. Dan Rochon [20:29]: So what's that got to do with r- rapport? That means, Mary, you're a spiritual being. Dan, me, I'm a spiritual being. Dan Rochon [20:36]: And when our spirits intertwine, there's a connection of energy. So if you can imagine in any persuasion, right, whether that be in sales or with your spouse or whatever the case may be-you first have to be connected with them energetically. Mary Meyer [20:51]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [20:52]: Then once you intertwine that, that energy, that's step one, which is be in rapport, then you ask them adept questions. Dan Rochon [20:59]: And adept question's simply a deep diving question. It's designed to be able to uncover the answers of really truly what's, what's, what they're afraid of. Dan Rochon [21:08]: Like, really, like, you know, if you're in... Like, I'm in real estate sales, so I can ask somebody, "Hey, you wanna buy a home?" They say, "Yeah, I want a three bedroom, two bath." And I, and most agents, most sales professionals will leave it at that. But instead, if I find out that you are a recently single dad, you wanna make sure that you're in your daughter's school district so that she can still continue going to that school without any challenges, and that you can still be that dad, that you're not gonna... Dan Rochon [21:34]: You know, your dad was a deadbeat to you, and now you, you wanna be a beautiful dad to your daughter. Dan Rochon [21:38]: Well, that's a whole lot m- you know, different than a three bedroom, two bath, right? Mary Meyer [21:43]: Sure is. Yeah. Dan Rochon [21:43]: So now I'm getting to the root of really, like, what's going on in this person's world. So step one is to be in rapport. Dan Rochon [21:49]: Step two to, is to act, um, a- ask adept questions. And then the final step, step three of the CPI communication model, is to actively listen. And so what are you actively listening to and for? You're actively listening to the energy that started in step one. Dan Rochon [22:05]: You're listening to that connection of energy. I can't tell you how often I've been with a, two spouses or two partners and say, "Hey, you wanna buy this home?" And one says, "Yes," and the other says, "Yeah." Dan Rochon [22:18]: Well, their words were both yes, but th- but they weren't both a yes. Mary Meyer [22:22]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [22:22]: Now, if I'm not paying attention to the energy and I move forward with that, guess what? At best I make a sale and at least one of them's off. Mary Meyer [22:30]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [22:30]: All right? That's at best, best case scenario. Uh, more likely, the, the one partner that, that's not happy is gonna find some reason to blow that deal up, and now you just wasted time, money, resources, et cetera. Dan Rochon [22:43]: And so that's the CPI communication model. Mary Meyer [22:45]: Mm. Dan Rochon [22:45]: And that's the way that, that I use energy in my sales process. Dan Rochon [22:49]: And, and it's really about ethically influencing, right? It's understanding- Mary Meyer [22:52]: Yeah Dan Rochon [22:52]: ... that when you can ethically influence, um, using that model I just described, then you can be able to m- you know, make more sales, or you can, uh, you can make, um, you know, better things happen in your relationships. Dan Rochon [23:05]: But ultimately it's gotta be what's in it for them. It can't be yourself. Dan Rochon [23:09]: So it's about aligning your goals and another person's goals so that you're both getting what you both want, rather than you focusing on yourself and not them first, and you getting what you want and them getting whatever they get. Mary Meyer [23:21]: Yeah. And I, I appreciate all the e- the, the ethical part of it, and 'cause I think there is a reputation 'cause there's, you know, people out there that are- Dan Rochon [23:29]: Yeah Mary Meyer [23:29]: ... doing sales, and it's not ethical. So we have, there's that kind of tarnish on it. Mary Meyer [23:34]: But if you're, if you believe in what you're selling, and you're in relationship rapport with the, the people, and this is what I'm hearing you say, I think, is that, you know, then, then you're i- you're doing something in their best interest, which is gonna be in your best interest 'cause you have to make money like everyone else. So that's what sales... Mary Meyer [23:52]: You gotta make money like everyone else. Um, and, and the root of making money usually is some kind of sales, you know? Dan Rochon [24:00]: And that, and sales again, it's about- Dan Rochon [24:02]: Yeah Dan Rochon [24:02]: ... it's about either s- uh, typically it's gonna be solving a problem or helping somebody achieve a goal. Dan Rochon [24:07]: So before you... B- And, and here's the, here's a, here's the rookie mistake in sales. Dan Rochon [24:12]: Mary, I got this, I got this pen right here, right? Let me sell you the pen, right? You go back, was that, uh-Oh, goodness, I'm blanking on the, on the, on the, um, on the movie. But let me sell you this pen. Mary Meyer [24:22]: Okay Dan Rochon [24:23]: ... Jor- Jordan Belfort, maybe? Don't quote me on that. Mary Meyer [24:27]: Okay. Dan Rochon [24:27]: Either way. All right. But it's... I, instead, it, normally a salesperson will start selling the pen without asking, "Mary, what do you need?" So what has to happen is I've gotta identify a problem or I have to identify a pain. Dan Rochon [24:42]: A, a, a problem- Mary Meyer [24:42]: Yeah Dan Rochon [24:42]: ... or a desire, rather, excuse me, a pain or a desire. Mary Meyer [24:45]: Right. Dan Rochon [24:45]: Okay? So once I understand that you have a problem for me to help you with or you have a desire to help me, help you with, now what I can do is I can fill the gap in between. Dan Rochon [24:55]: If your problem is, is that you've been trying to memorize this conversation right now and you don't have your phone so you can't type it on your phone, you can't type it on your computer, and you just have to remember it. Dan Rochon [25:07]: You need a tool to be able to help transcribe this. So absent technology- Mary Meyer [25:12]: Right Dan Rochon [25:12]: ... maybe that tool could be a pen. Mary Meyer [25:14]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [25:14]: So now I know that there's a need that's, that's, that's available, but I have to identify the need first. Mary Meyer [25:20]: Right. Dan Rochon [25:21]: And now I talk about the need, and now I say, "Okay, well guess what? I've got a solution to your problem. Dan Rochon [25:28]: When you buy this pen you'll now be able to take notes and you'll be able to do so for the next couple months until the ink runs out and then you'll have to buy another pen. Dan Rochon [25:38]: So come to me for a, uh, for my, uh, recurring policy." Mary Meyer [25:42]: That's right. That's right. Um, okay. I wanna go back, I wanna go through all your levels in your book, but go back, going back to level one. Mary Meyer [25:50]: So for salespeople, um, it just like you wake up in the morning, you're at zero, you know, for the week, the month, the year, whatever you're at. Mary Meyer [26:01]: Uh, you know you have this big hill ahead of you. You know there's not a consistent paycheck coming in, and this could be for business owners also, and any of those things. Mary Meyer [26:10]: Is there... And, and the phone isn't ringing, it's quiet. If you're working from home, it's quiet. Dan Rochon [26:16]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [26:16]: Uh, there's a lot of things that can, I think, um, that are emotionally a little heavier than people realize who aren't doing it. Mary Meyer [26:24]: But for that, like, is there things in the morning that you've done or just habits? I know the, the, you know, the, the thought taking, you know, your thoughts- Dan Rochon [26:33]: Yeah Mary Meyer [26:33]: ... and making sure that you're reframing and, you know, e- everything and being, saying something positive to yourself. Mary Meyer [26:41]: Anything else that you would say about- Dan Rochon [26:43]: I work every morning... Yeah, I wanna talk a little bit more about that. But, uh, one thing I do specifically in the morning and in the, and the evenings, um, I personally have this r- recurring dialogue that's deep in my subconscious that I'm not worthy. Dan Rochon [26:57]: And so, and that may be something that many people may, you know, align with and, and maybe may not admit it, but, you know- Dan Rochon [27:04]: ... if you really looked at it, there's some sort of version in, of that in, in a lot of us. Mary Meyer [27:08]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [27:08]: And, um, and so every morning I write down, "Today I will be worthy," and then I write down three things that are either my intentions or three things that are my strengths or three things that I can do to love somebody else. Dan Rochon [27:21]: And then I finish with, "Today I'll be worthy." When I go to bed at night I say, "Today I was worthy," and then I write down three things that I did good that day. Mary Meyer [27:31]: Wow. Dan Rochon [27:32]: To be able to s- provide somebody, to be able to love on somebody, to be able to help somebody. Dan Rochon [27:36]: And so then, and then I finish it, "Tomorrow I will be worthy as well." And so that's a little, that's, that's one little thing that I do and, and, and, and it makes a big difference for me because it goes back into programming that subconscious. Because if I have this deep-rooted thing that happened to... Dan Rochon [27:52]: You know, my name is Dan Rochon. When I was five years old, I was Danny Rochon. Dan Rochon [27:56]: Okay? So when that Danny, something happened to him that, you know, stayed with him the rest of Dan's life. Mary Meyer [28:06]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [28:06]: And so, but, and it's so freaking deep-rooted in me I can't even really see it, but I know it's there. Mary Meyer [28:12]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [28:12]: And so how do I transform that? I transform that by telling my... And finding evidence, finding those 40 to 50 bits of data that prove that I'm worthy when I know that my subconscious being is, you know, whatever, not worthy. Mary Meyer [28:27]: Mm. That's so, that is so, I feel like that's so deeply profound. Mary Meyer [28:32]: Uh, and I've not, I've not heard of it as you just described it. I think that's very valuable. Mary Meyer [28:37]: I am wanting this whole time to reach for my pen and, and furiously write down notes, and remembering that I can't do that right now 'cause I need to be listening. And so if you're- Mary Meyer [28:46]: Well- Mary Meyer [28:46]: ... if you're listening to this and you're- Dan Rochon [28:48]: Right. I mean, if you're really looking for the notes, I mean, I'm just saying I, I, I think that maybe there's a way that you could maybe get all the... I'll get you a copy of this and then- Mary Meyer [28:55]: Ooh Dan Rochon [28:55]: ... you can skip the notes. Mary Meyer [28:55]: That'd be great. There is the Teach to Sell, so make sure you get your copy of Teach to Sell. That's, this is so good. Mary Meyer [29:02]: And- Dan Rochon [29:02]: And they can get it at teachtosellbook.com, by the way. Mary Meyer [29:05]: Okay. Teachtosellbook.com. All right. You know, uh, I, I think with my background in psychology, I have a, you know, major in psychology, that didn't go further than that, but a deep interest in it, lifelong interest in that. Mary Meyer [29:19]: That I really feel like people, everyone believes one of two lies. One is that we're not worthy, the other is we're not lovable. Mary Meyer [29:26]: At some level I feel like that is everyone's pro... I mean, some people are so soci- sociopathic you, we're not gonna even go there. Dan Rochon [29:34]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [29:34]: But for normal people I feel like those are the two things in one way or the other that we're believing. So you just address that, and I'm sure if it's like, "I'm not lovable," then there's an easy way to, you could do the same thing. Dan Rochon [29:47]: Well, let me tell you, uh, and I, going back to the book, right? Just real quick. Mary Meyer [29:51]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [29:51]: There is... I wrote the book in a, using a hero's journey. Dan Rochon [29:56]: Okay? Mary Meyer [29:56]: Oh, okay. Dan Rochon [29:56]: So in a hero's journey there's an antagonist, there's a protagonist, and there's a, um, uh, there's a, um, there's a villain, right? So there's a villain. Dan Rochon [30:05]: The villain in the book is not good enough. All right? The hero of the book is the reader. Dan Rochon [30:11]: The guide in the book is the actual g- book or the author, myself, okay? Mary Meyer [30:16]: Oh. Dan Rochon [30:16]: And so, and so the book is written to be able to address through the entire frameworks of, of, of those four-Um, you know, pillars of, of, of belief, lead generation, organization building leadership. Dan Rochon [30:31]: Revolving around on that is, and here's how you could be able to have consistent, predictable income in spite of that not good enough. Mary Meyer [30:41]: Mm. Dan Rochon [30:41]: Whether that be my, my knowledge isn't good enough, or my business card isn't good enough, my website's not good enough, my product's not good enough, or the worst one is, I'm not good enough. Mary Meyer [30:53]: Ooh, yeah. Wow. Mary Meyer [30:58]: This is, this is really good. I, uh, am grateful as someone who has, uh, lived life around so many salespeople to have someone who's talking about it in the realm of what you're s- you know, talking about it in. Mary Meyer [31:14]: Be authentic. Um, have good self-talk. And, and you know, life is life, so like you're out here trying to build a business or doing sales and, and, or living your life the best you can, and you're still dealing with crap. Mary Meyer [31:28]: You know, like you've been abused, you've had a horrible something go down, a car wreck, or you lost a loved one. Mary Meyer [31:36]: Life is going on in the middle of, it's not separate, it's in the middle of it, and so this becomes even more important as you deal with real life stuff that, you know, is super hard and you still are here having to make a living and hopefully so excited about it. Mary Meyer [31:57]: But you know, like, managing, managing all that together is just real life. Dan Rochon [32:02]: Yeah, Mary, I wanna say one thing 'cause you, you asked, I meant to expand on this as well about that salesperson who's waking up and they don't really have anything in the pipeline, and they have no closings, whatever the case may be, like what do they do? Mary Meyer [32:14]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [32:14]: Uh, so I gave you some of the mindset, you know, hacks, right? Mary Meyer [32:16]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [32:16]: But let me give you something that's like more tactical that you could do today, which is when I started in sales, at least as... Dan Rochon [32:23]: You know, I was waiting tables. I was technically in sales my entire life. So I, I was selling bubblegum. Dan Rochon [32:28]: My first business got shut down by my, uh, by my fourth grade principal because I would go and buy a pack of 10 of those blow, uh, bubblegums for 50 cents- ... and I'd sell them for a quarter a piece. Dan Rochon [32:38]: And apparently he was not a capitalist, and I- ... I didn't appreciate that about him, but that's another conversation. Mary Meyer [32:43]: That's awesome. Dan Rochon [32:45]: That business got shut down. Um, but anyway, so if you, if you're in a position right now that you're not getting what you wanna get, the best thing that I... The best advice I have for you is to, is to have a blind faith. Dan Rochon [32:59]: So that... I had... When I started in real estate sales in 2007, I had a blind faith. Dan Rochon [33:04]: So what did I do? I, I opened up a book and in fact I got... Dan Rochon [33:08]: So here's the book that I opened up right here, right? This is actually signed by- Mary Meyer [33:12]: Mm-hmm Dan Rochon [33:13]: ... uh, by two of the authors. Um- Dan Rochon [33:15]: Yeah Dan Rochon [33:15]: ... one of them tragically passed away, and I met him at, for lunch one day. But, um, but anyway, so, so in this book about, it's a book about real estate sales, and in the back of the book there's a bunch of really, really, uh, successful, um, real estate agents, some of which are still in business today, and about half of the people in the back of this book I'm friends with today. Mary Meyer [33:36]: Oh, cool. Dan Rochon [33:36]: I read this book and I said to myself, "I don't have any business. I don't have anything, so, so who's done this in front of me? Dan Rochon [33:44]: And what did they do?" And so I studied them and I emulated them. I gave them a call. I gave people a call. I was licensed for one week, I'm giving the top performers in the world a phone call. "Hey, my name's Dan Rochon. Dan Rochon [33:56]: L- you know, c- can I get five minutes of your time?" And most of them gave it to me. Mary Meyer [34:00]: Wow. Dan Rochon [34:00]: And, and not only did I read the book, but I also asked. I said, "Well, well, well, you know, here's where I am, here's my experience. What would you do?" And so I, I, I derived a faith from them, and that's what I call a blind faith. Mary Meyer [34:12]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [34:12]: Because I knew if Mike Mendoza, who's a friend of mine, he's in back of this book, if Mike in Arizona, if Mike can have success, so can Dan. Mary Meyer [34:22]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [34:23]: Okay? Now, it may be a little bit different because Mike has different personalities, different resources, but if I talk to Chris Cormack, who's local to me in the, in the back of that book, and I talk to Mike Mendoza, and I talk to Russell Shaw, and I talk to whoever else in the back of this book, and I find where's the commonalities in these people that I can do, now all I have to do is do what they did, and I can have blind faith that I'll have what they got. Mary Meyer [34:48]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [34:49]: That blind faith for me has transformed to an absolute faith. So when I had nothing, I had to rely on somebody else for their experience, and then I did what they did and I had the same results. Mary Meyer [35:04]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [35:04]: When I then had the same results, now I have an absolute faith. Dan Rochon [35:08]: As a real estate agent, I have not had a broke month since 2008. Dan Rochon [35:13]: I have all the cool things that I've done in business, owning a brokerage, and joint ventures, and title companies, and mortgage companies, and investment companies, and every s- you know, all these really cool things. Dan Rochon [35:24]: That's fine, but the one thing that I'd say I'm most proud of, and if anybody here is listening to, to... If you've been a real estate agent, you know having no broke months for that many months for that many years, that is what I'm truly proud of. Dan Rochon [35:38]: And as I started to develop, you know, to say, "My goodness, I can now have an absolute faith in myself that tomorrow I'll wake up and I, I... I'm unemployed tomorrow. Dan Rochon [35:49]: I was unemployed this morning when I woke up, and I was unemployed yesterday. I gotta wake up and I gotta, I gotta find my business." Mary Meyer [35:55]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [35:55]: "But I know I will because I've done it for so long that now I have an absolute faith in myself." So that's my advice to that person that's at zero. Dan Rochon [36:03]: Find somebody to emulate that looks a lot like you in the mirror, that has the success that you want, do what they did, and then you'll have the, the right to earn an absolute faith. Mary Meyer [36:13]: That's, that's fabulous advice. And bold too, you know, that you just are calling people. Very bold. Dan Rochon [36:19]: I had one of m- one of the people that I call, his name's Pat Hiven. Really good guy. He's retired many years ago. Dan Rochon [36:24]: He was local to me, and he's got a big podcast that's still... I- I mean, he sold it and, you know, other people run it for him now. Dan Rochon [36:30]: And, um, I interviewed Pat one day, and this was after I sort of made my own way-And Pat was one of these guys that I called, I was licensed maybe 10 days, and I'll never forget it. He's- he's, um, excuse me, he's, uh, he's at a Starbucks. Dan Rochon [36:45]: This guy gives me 30 minutes of his time. Most gracious guy ever. Dan Rochon [36:49]: I interview Pat several years, maybe 10 years later, and now he doesn't remember this, right? And I didn't expect... And I, I never thanked him for it. Dan Rochon [36:57]: I waited until he's on a live interview on my No Broke Months podcast and I tell him that story, and he looks at me, he goes, "Well, Dan, I- I'm- I'm so glad I wasn't a dick." Mary Meyer [37:10]: Oh, geez. Dan Rochon [37:10]: I said, "No, man. You were gracious. You were the best." Mary Meyer [37:12]: Oh. Dan Rochon [37:12]: Right? 'Cause I wanted to thank him live and it was sort of funny. His response was funny to that. Mary Meyer [37:17]: That is funny. Well, and there's so many people that are willing to give back, is, you know, and I found that just starting as a Dan Rochon [37:24]: The top producers- Dan Rochon [37:24]: ... broker too Dan Rochon [37:24]: ... are gonna be willing. Mary Meyer [37:25]: You know? Dan Rochon [37:25]: I mean, some won't, some won't, but most will. Mary Meyer [37:28]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [37:28]: Most will because that's what makes them top producers. They, they love people. Mary Meyer [37:32]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [37:32]: They care for people. They care for you. Reach out to them. Give me a call. I don't, I'll- I'll- I'll talk to you. I mean, can't talk to all your audience, right? I'll talk to you, no sweat. Mary Meyer [37:41]: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So Dan, uh, that was tier one. Tier two of the book, remind me what that is. Dan Rochon [37:48]: Lead generation. Lead generation. Mary Meyer [37:49]: Lead gen... Oh, lead generation. Okay. Dan Rochon [37:52]: I- Mary Meyer [37:52]: This is a big one. Dan Rochon [37:53]: Well, let me- Mary Meyer [37:53]: This is usually where we start and stop is lead generation. Dan Rochon [37:56]: Well, let me give you a hack to this. Mary Meyer [37:58]: Okay. Dan Rochon [37:58]: All right? So the hack to this is, is, is take out two pieces of paper. Dan Rochon [38:02]: On one piece of paper I want you to go and a- and, and this is, like, typically good for those morning exercises we talked about or maybe a weekend exercise, and I want you to write down your superpower. Dan Rochon [38:14]: What is everything that makes you good? What does your wife say makes you good, your, your, your husband, your partner, uh, your mother, your father, your gri- excuse me, your grandkid- Dan Rochon [38:25]: ... your best friend? What do they say makes Mary special? Dan Rochon [38:29]: What does Mary say makes Mary special? What are my superpowers? Now, not in sales, in life. Dan Rochon [38:35]: Step two, get out a second piece of paper. Doesn't matter what sales industry you're in, real estate sales, insurance sales. And, and Mary hit it earlier when she says everybody's in sales some way or another, right? Mary Meyer [38:47]: Mm-hmm. Dan Rochon [38:47]: But whatever your industry is, what are all the different ways I could find business? Dan Rochon [38:54]: Whether you can do it or not. I could do radio ads. Well, I don't have the money for that. I don't care. Write down, I could do radio ads, I could do television ads, I could do billboards, I could do cold calling, I could do door-knocking, I could do an event, uh, you know, where I put a booth at the mall. Dan Rochon [39:09]: I could do client appreciation events. Like, I could do YouTube marketing, Facebook marketing. Write it all down, whatever it may be. Just keep writing, keep writing, keep writing. Dan Rochon [39:18]: That should take you two or three days. Now, I wrote down on one piece of paper what is my, what are my superpowers, and I wrote down on a second piece of paper what are all the ways that I could find business. Dan Rochon [39:29]: Now, for a second, look at the, all the ways you could find business and see what your superpowers are and which of your superpowers align with which ways to do business. Dan Rochon [39:44]: So now for my example, myself, you give me a phone book, or just, uh, you give me a random nu- you give me 1,000 phone numbers, as long as they're correct, by the end of the day I'll have an appointment, guaranteed. Dan Rochon [39:57]: I don't recommend that to most. In fact, in my industry about 8% of, of my competitors would be, like, th- that would match their superpower. Dan Rochon [40:06]: But for me, I'm sort of bold. I'm, I'm, I'm, um, I'm competent. Dan Rochon [40:11]: I have experience in, in, in communication. Um, I'm very comfortable calling somebody and transferring it from a no into a may, either a not yet or, "Hey, let's talk." Okay? Like, I'm very, uh, I'm very skilled at being able to take a bad conversation and pay attention to the energy we talked about earlier in the CPI communication model and transform it into a good conversation. Dan Rochon [40:34]: Well, again, that's a superpower of mine. So cold calling, sure, go do it. Dan Rochon [40:40]: Follow the, you know, the, all the, you know, the rules, you know, the don't, do not call rules and all that type of stuff. Mary Meyer [40:46]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [40:46]: But now that I understand what my superpower is and I understand what the different ways to do business are, now I'm just gonna match the two and I'm gonna find from my different ways to do business, originally I'm gonna find three ways, no more than three. Dan Rochon [40:59]: One primary, two secondary. I'm gonna build that primary first, the second, it's two and three second. Dan Rochon [41:05]: Make sure that that's running, you know, so that it's going, and then I would build up to nine. Mary Meyer [41:10]: Okay. Dan Rochon [41:10]: Okay? But I wouldn't go more than nine, and I wouldn't go more than three originally till you sort of get that rocking and rolling. Dan Rochon [41:16]: Then one to three hours a week, or excuse me, one to three hours a day, five days a week, that's your job description. Dan Rochon [41:24]: All right? So now I just gave you your job description in a way that you don't have to do anything in sales, but you have to do something. I was in a, a conversation once where I was in a group of, of owners, uh, in the franchise I used to be a, a franchisee of. Dan Rochon [41:41]: And they had their, we all had our CEOs in there, and one of the CEOs said to, to the group, said, uh, "I don't like doing that." And I looked across to her and I said, "Well, you shouldn't." And her, the, the owner of her company gave me this look like he wanted to kill me. I was like, "Oh, oh, wait a second. Wait a second. Wait a second. Let me... Slow down." 'Cause it wasn't appropriate for me to say that to her, right? Not in that venue. Dan Rochon [41:59]: But I said- Mary Meyer [42:00]: Right Dan Rochon [42:00]: ... "Uh, let me, let me clear this up. I'm not saying that you shouldn't do something. And then whatever your boss says, that's between you and him, and do that, whatever." Dan Rochon [42:08]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [42:08]: "But my opinion is you don't need to do something you don't like doing, but you do need to do something. Dan Rochon [42:15]: And if you can't figure out something that you like doing, then you may have a hard conversation with yourself about is sales the right business for you." Mary Meyer [42:25]: Man, this is profound. Dan Rochon [42:27]: With love. Mary Meyer [42:27]: You know, it's, it's... What i- what was that last comment? Dan Rochon [42:30]: I said with love. Mary Meyer [42:32]: With love. Dan Rochon [42:34]: With love. Mary Meyer [42:34]: With love. Don't do it. Uh, and yeah, not everyone, this, certainly there's a certain, uh, you, you have to at least like people to do sales. Let's start with that, uh, minimum. Dan Rochon [42:43]: Yeah, that's a good starting point. Mary Meyer [42:44]: It's a good starting point. So, uh, since you... I think prob- this might be stage four, but I am, it- my mind is going there. So in so many sales organizations, uh, across the board, it's like, "This is the way we make sales. This is the way we make sales." Dan Rochon [43:01]: Yeah. Yeah. Mary Meyer [43:01]: And so, and I know I've been involved in doing sales online only, door-to-door, uh, where they want you to be on the phone all the time, uh, where we're, we're like, "You could do it a bunch of different ways. Make some videos and do, you know, do the advertis- There's a, there's a lot of different home sales," you know? Mary Meyer [43:19]: Network marketing sales like, over the years. Uh, real estate sales, uh, ins- you know, insurance sales. All these too many types of sales. Mary Meyer [43:28]: But there's more... There, like you're saying, there is, there is more than one way to do it. Mary Meyer [43:33]: Um, but what would you say to leadership- Dan Rochon [43:37]: Yeah Mary Meyer [43:37]: ... who's like, "This is the way we've done it since the early '90s," which is usually how you hear it, but- Dan Rochon [43:42]: I, I don't... You know, it, it's hard to, to give advice on that because e- everything is, you know, in context. Dan Rochon [43:48]: So I just wanna give that as a precursor. Mary Meyer [43:50]: Sure. Dan Rochon [43:51]: I would say for the person that's choosing to be a part of that organization. So not necessarily for the leader, and I do have advice for the leader as well, but for the person choosing to be part of that organization, I ask them, do you like chocolate chip cookies or do you like sugar cookies? Dan Rochon [44:05]: And the reason why I say that is because I love cookies. I shouldn't, I'm a diabetic, right? But I love cookies. Dan Rochon [44:12]: And so I'm just telling you, right? Mary Meyer [44:14]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [44:14]: I prefer a chocolate chip cookie. But you give me a s- a sugar cookie, I'll eat it all day long. Dan Rochon [44:20]: And so what I mean by that is if I gave you a chocolate chip cookie recipe, I can tell you exactly three quarters brown sugar, three quarters white sugar, one e- uh, two eggs, uh, some vanilla, some, some butter, some flour, some baking soda, some salt. Mix it all up, throw some chocolate chips in it, 350 for eight to 10 minutes, and you're gonna have a warm, gooey chocolate chip cookie. Dan Rochon [44:44]: That's a recipe. So if an organization has a recipe, then you have the choice if you're, you're, you know, choosing which, w- which organization to be a part of, is- Mary Meyer [44:53]: Yeah Dan Rochon [44:54]: ... do I like chocolate chip cookies? It doesn't mean that you have to like chocolate chip cookies, 'cause y- if you don't, then go work for the company that has a, makes a, tells you how to make a sugar cookie, right? It's, i- it's... Dan Rochon [45:06]: But each recipe is gonna allow for you to have a certain outcome. Dan Rochon [45:11]: So that leader that has a f- playbook to sit there and say, "Here's my playbook, and if you follow this playbook, then you're gonna have this chocolate chip cookie's gonna be your outcome," then great. Dan Rochon [45:24]: Now you have to then as a leader find only people that like chocolate chip cookies. Mary Meyer [45:28]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [45:29]: All right. Now, if you want a more diverse organization and you wanna be able to scale your organization as a leader, then you may sit there and maybe take an approach where you, uh, go back to the approach that I suggested, which is I don't care how you do it. Dan Rochon [45:42]: As long as you love doing it, you're more likely to do it. So let's figure out what you love doing first. Dan Rochon [45:47]: Now let's put a playbook around that instead. Mary Meyer [45:50]: Yes. I, I just want to do... I'm, I'm just doing a little golf clap for those who aren't listening- ... or who are only listening. But here, I'll make it louder. Mary Meyer [46:01]: Um, yeah. That's, that was worth a clap to me. I have never clapped for anyone on the podcast. Dan Rochon [46:06]: Hey, I'm the first. Mary Meyer [46:07]: You're the first. No, that's, that's so... I, I don't know why this is, this is revolutionary to me, but like you said, put one... Mary Meyer [46:15]: all your skills, every, what everyone says you're good at, what you think you're good at on one sheet of paper, and every single possible way- Dan Rochon [46:23]: Yeah Mary Meyer [46:23]: ... to make a sale, to do lead gen on another piece of paper and see what lines up. Mary Meyer [46:27]: How simple and brilliant is that? So I love that. Dan Rochon [46:31]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [46:31]: I'm gonna probably do that today. Dan Rochon [46:33]: Let's do it. Mary Meyer [46:34]: All right. Uh, so the next tier in your book, the level three, tier three- Dan Rochon [46:40]: Organization building. Orga- building an organization. Mary Meyer [46:43]: Okay. Dan Rochon [46:44]: Why would you wanna build an organization? So once you believe in yourself and then you know how to find business, and we already discussed that, now is that enough? Dan Rochon [46:52]: Well, it could be. You could make a living doing that, and you can make a very good living doing that, uh, without ever hiring somebody, without getting any systems. Dan Rochon [47:01]: But at some point you're gonna hit a very, very thick ceiling of achievement. Mary Meyer [47:06]: Mm-hmm. Dan Rochon [47:06]: And that thick ceiling of achievement is called time, okay? Because we have certain assets in life. We have our health, we have our spirit, we have in the business context primarily, well, health and spirit too, but primarily time and money, okay? Mary Meyer [47:22]: Right. Dan Rochon [47:22]: So at some point if I'm sitting here hustling and let's say I'm banging out the phones like I did or, you know, 15 years ago, I don't do that as often today. I do it from time to time, but not that often, uh, because I, you know, I've been able to develop a, a great team of people around me, okay? So I recognize to sit there and say, well, if I'm gonna hit this ceiling of achievement, uh, which is time, and I wanna be able to scale, I wanna be able to make a greater impact, then I have to be able to find people to align with, with me. Dan Rochon [47:51]: I have to find systems to align with, with me. And now I can be able to then be able to continue to grow, to be able to help more people achieve their goals and solve their problems. Mary Meyer [48:01]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [48:01]: All right? And so that's the, that's the basis of, of, of why you would want to get help by building an organization. Mary Meyer [48:07]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [48:08]: Then step one, which here's the thing, nobody teaches this. At this point, most people would then s- dive into here's how to hire. Dan Rochon [48:17]: That's the second thing to do. The first thing to go, to do is to go back into having awareness of who you are, just like what we did. Dan Rochon [48:24]: It always starts with yourself first. That's the piece that, that, that many leaders when they're helping you will, will miss. They'll completely miss that. Mary Meyer [48:32]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [48:32]: So what does that mean to sit there and discover what it is? You know, like, take a look at yourself. Dan Rochon [48:37]: So we've already talked about mission. Mission is simply... Dan Rochon [48:42]: Well, let me, let me back up. Before we talk about mission, let's talk about vision. Dan Rochon [48:47]: All right. A vision i- defined is simply where are we going to go?So you as, you know, leading your world, you have to first identify where do I want to go? What do I want to achieve? Dan Rochon [48:58]: That's step one. Then step two is how am I going to get there? Dan Rochon [49:03]: Well, we already discovered how you're gonna get there based off of saying, you know, what's my superpower and what are all the different ways. Dan Rochon [49:09]: That's how you're gonna get there. We're gonna describe that in a business context as mission. Mary Meyer [49:14]: Okay. Dan Rochon [49:14]: So a vision is where are you gonna go, and then a mission is how are you gonna ge- get there. Dan Rochon [49:20]: Thirdly, the third thing to discover before you start hiring is what is culture? Dan Rochon [49:26]: Culture simply is how you like to be treated. All right? So now write down how do you like to be treated. Dan Rochon [49:33]: If you're having problems with that, think of somebody who's a friend or, or a spou- you know, a partner or whatever, relative that, that you really feel good about, that treats you well. So now let's figure out that person and what do they do that you feel good about specifically. Dan Rochon [49:50]: Whatever that is is gonna define how you like to treat others, and now you've got a, a definition of the culture that will work for you as a leader. Dan Rochon [50:00]: All right? So now we've got the culture that will work for you as a leader, we've got the vision of where you want to go, and now we have the mission to be able to get there. That's the starting point in building an organization. Dan Rochon [50:12]: Now let's build on that. So now that we understand that concept first, which most people, you know, they don't even think about any of that. Mary Meyer [50:19]: Yes. Yeah, no. Dan Rochon [50:21]: Now, who is it that I'm gonna be looking for that's gonna align with my mission and my culture? Dan Rochon [50:28]: Okay? Meaning like going back to that if we are the chocolate chip cookie makers, as a leader that's the only way I want to generate business and I don't wanna have that flexibility we just discussed, then I'm gonna sit there and say, "Well, who are the chocolate chip cookie eaters? Dan Rochon [50:44]: Let me start there first." Okay? So that would be like people that align with my mission about doing the things the way that I like to do them. Dan Rochon [50:52]: Now, you may... And we already described, like you don't necessarily need to do that, but that's a way you could do that, okay? Dan Rochon [50:58]: So we s- that's the starting point. Then as you start looking for people that align with your mission, with your values, with your beliefs, with your perspectives, with y- with your culture, and will help you to achieve your vision, then you start looking for people that I call SCARLET. Dan Rochon [51:15]: So SCARLET is an acronym. A- and all capital letters except for the E that I'll tell you here in a second about. Dan Rochon [51:21]: So SCARLET, capital S-C-A-R-T and then little E. SCARLET. Mary Meyer [51:31]: You missed an L maybe. Dan Rochon [51:32]: I missed an L. L, little E, R-T. Thank you. Mary Meyer [51:36]: Okay. Dan Rochon [51:36]: Here's what SCARLET... I knew when I got there, I'm like, "Ah, I screwed that up." I- Dan Rochon [51:41]: So- Dan Rochon [51:41]: But here's what SCARLET is. The S- Mary Meyer [51:43]: Okay Dan Rochon [51:43]: ... stands for, and write this down for people listening or get the book- Mary Meyer [51:46]: Okay Dan Rochon [51:46]: ... and then, you know, it's in there as well. So SCARLET, so the S- Dan Rochon [51:49]: Okay Dan Rochon [51:49]: ... is self-starter. Mary Meyer [51:51]: Okay. Dan Rochon [51:52]: The C is competitive. The A is assertive. Dan Rochon [52:00]: The R is relationship-based. The L, capital L, little E is learning-based. They like to learn. Dan Rochon [52:09]: The T is team players. So that's self-starter, competitive, assertive, relationship-based, learning-based, team player. Dan Rochon [52:21]: I got a little secret for you. Mary Meyer [52:23]: Okay. Dan Rochon [52:23]: When I first started teaching that years ago I called it CLART because I couldn't figure out a good acronym for it. It's the sa- it's the same, uh, eh, but, but one day I was teaching, I was complaining to my class, "Hey, you know, I gotta really think about a better acronym for this," and one of my students said, "SCARLET." And I was like, "What? SCARLET?" And it, it worked out. So- Mary Meyer [52:41]: Yeah, it did Dan Rochon [52:41]: ... it's gonna be CLART. Mary Meyer [52:43]: Okay. So tell me about SCARLET again. What is this? Dan Rochon [52:46]: Self-starter. Mary Meyer [52:46]: How is it related to your team? Well, related to your team, how does this- Dan Rochon [52:49]: These are the people that you're looking for. Mary Meyer [52:51]: Okay. Dan Rochon [52:52]: All right? Mary Meyer [52:52]: All right. Dan Rochon [52:52]: So if I'm gonna hire a virtual assistant, I'm gonna... or if I'm gonna hire a, a local assistant or I'm gonna hire a salesperson or I'm gonna hire an administrator or I'm gonna hire a client care captain or client care manager, I'm starting with those traits first. Dan Rochon [53:08]: Okay? So now I understand. It goes back to like I'm gonna discover myself first, who am I, values, beliefs, perspectives, all that stuff that I already said. Dan Rochon [53:18]: That starts first. Then secondly, I'm looking for people that only, uh, display those characteristics in SCARLET. Dan Rochon [53:27]: So now when I'm interviewing, then I can instead of sitting there saying, "Oh, are you competitive?" No, I'm not gonna say that. Dan Rochon [53:34]: Instead, I'm gonna look for you to demonstrate co- uh, competitiveness. Mary Meyer [53:38]: Okay. Dan Rochon [53:39]: I may ask you something like, "So Mary, did you ever play, uh, play sports in high school or college?" "Yes." "Great. Well, tell me more about that." What I'm looking for is if you say you lost, that you hit the gym the next day for the next week at 5:00 in the morning to f- to fix the jump shot because you're competitive. Mary Meyer [53:57]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [53:58]: Versus I went out drinking and blew it off and I didn't really care, right? So you're looking for traits of success in, in whatever it is, it, you know, of those, of those characteristics that I described. Mary Meyer [54:10]: Yeah. That's great. The, um, self-starter, competitive, assertive, relationship, learning, and team player. Mary Meyer [54:20]: You know, and being assertive and being, uh, you know, relationship-driven sometimes is an, is an interesting, uh, mix. Dan Rochon [54:28]: It can be, but you can be, you can be assertive and relate with, well with others, and that's understanding. So, so behavior is, is just... Dan Rochon [54:40]: There, there, it, I, I believe, and there's some neuroscience around this, that there are no- nothing... Dan Rochon [54:45]: So we talk about strengths and we talk about weaknesses. Mary Meyer [54:48]: Right. Dan Rochon [54:49]: I believe there are no strengths and there are no weaknesses. There's only behavior. Mary Meyer [54:53]: Okay. Dan Rochon [54:53]: The behavior, when it serves you and serves others, shows up as a strength.The same behavior can show up as a, as, as something that it does not serve you and does not serve others, and if that's the case, it shows up as a weakness. Dan Rochon [55:10]: Same behavior. So take dominance for example, or assertiveness rather, excuse me. Dan Rochon [55:14]: Take assertiveness. You could be extraordinarily assertive and that could be a strength that can relate well with other people. But that same characteristic can also be a weakness. So it's about having an emotional understanding of yourself to sit there and say, "Well, if I'm gonna be assertive, am I being assertive in a way that I can serve other people?" Mary Meyer [55:38]: Okay. Dan Rochon [55:38]: And w- if I can serve other people, then I can also relate with other people. Mary Meyer [55:42]: Got it. Dan Rochon [55:42]: And if I'm beginning to relate with other people, now I can check both those boxes off. Mary Meyer [55:47]: Yeah. Yeah, that's good. And I think probably where some people go wrong if they're salespeople is turning their assertiveness into a dominance. Mary Meyer [55:56]: I heard you say that a little bit- Dan Rochon [55:59]: No, no Mary Meyer [55:59]: ... and I'm like, I, I've experienced it so much that I'm like, I just had to say it. But, you know, you, you gotta make sure you're keeping your, your, uh, spirit soul in check, um, too, so. Dan Rochon [56:09]: You have to be in rapport with the other person. You have to be spiritually connected with them. You know, you have to be energetically connected with them. Dan Rochon [56:16]: When you do that, y- you can pretty much show up with any behavior you wanna show up with as long as you're coming from a good, you know, a place of goodness. Okay? So I could still be dominating if you and I are connected in rapport because when we're connected and we're rapport and our energy's connected, you're gonna trust me. Mary Meyer [56:35]: That's true. That's true. Dan Rochon [56:37]: Right? So now I- Mary Meyer [56:37]: And somehow I appreciate it in different situations, yeah. That's true. Dan Rochon [56:40]: And by the way, an example of being dominating isn't necessarily the one that's gonna be, like, a jerk, right? Like, how do you, how do you control a conversation versus how do you dominate a conversation, right? Like, one is asking questions, the other is talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. Mary Meyer [56:58]: That's good. Dan Rochon [56:59]: But both can guide a conversation, right? So in, so I can still have that, that assertiveness, but instead of saying, "Hey, here's what we're gonna do. You're gonna do A, but you're gonna do B, and you're gonna do C, you're gonna do D, here's what we're gonna do," I can say, "No. Dan Rochon [57:13]: Well, let me ask you a question, Mary. If we did A, what would that look like in your world?" I'm still being assertive, I'm just showing up differently. Mary Meyer [57:23]: Right. Dan Rochon [57:23]: One's very respectful and, and, and partnering. The other, you're gonna, you know, you are gonna sort of, you know, push people away. Mary Meyer [57:29]: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Uh, this is great, great info. Mary Meyer [57:34]: Did we go through all the tiers? Dan Rochon [57:36]: Uh, leadership, uh- Mary Meyer [57:38]: Leadership's the last one, okay Dan Rochon [57:39]: ... so, so, so I'll give... We, we talked about leadership a little bit, so to tell you the four again, belief is your foundation, lead generation's your first floor, organization building's your second floor, your third floor is leadership, and then if you put a little flag on top of that building, we put a little CPI on that flag, and that CPI stands for consistent predictable income. Mary Meyer [58:00]: Okay. Dan Rochon [58:00]: Leadership, if you get one thing about leadership, and we talked a lot about leadership during this conversation, and I've even said this- Dan Rochon [58:05]: Yeah Dan Rochon [58:05]: ... but I'm gonna repeat it because it's worth repeating. The definition that I give leadership is to teach somebody else how to think so that they can get what they want. Dan Rochon [58:15]: All right? It's still about the other person. All right? So when you're able to put the right people on the bus, you know, those Navy SEALs that, that, you know, when you're able to lead great people, it's easier... It's not that hard to lead Navy SEALs once they become SEALs. Dan Rochon [58:32]: My goodness, there's not a better military, you know, team in, in the world, right? Dan Rochon [58:38]: Sure. Dan Rochon [58:38]: Like, like, I mean, yeah, it's hard. I'm not saying it's... I mean, those, those commanders or whatever, like, I- I'm not saying that they're not doing a great job of leading. Dan Rochon [58:45]: But it, it would be a lot... Like, you could take that same leader or leader of Navy SEALs and put them into, like, a, a normal room, uh, uh, uh, in business, and they're gonna struggle because, you know, they're, they're, they're leading average people, okay? So the, the key to leadership really rests in your organization building, which we went through, you know, extensively. Dan Rochon [59:05]: When you're able to be in business with the right people, leading becomes relatively easy. Dan Rochon [59:11]: Leading just becomes serving those that you lead so they can get what they want. That's all it is. Dan Rochon [59:16]: But if you're managing rather than leading, meaning that you're telling people what to do and you're, you're, you're guiding and you're pointing and you're directing, now it could be challenging. Dan Rochon [59:27]: So that's why I would much rather lead than manage any day of the week. Mary Meyer [59:31]: That is great. So the difference between leadership and management in your opinion- Dan Rochon [59:36]: Leadership is, uh you manage things in systems. Mary Meyer [59:41]: Okay. Dan Rochon [59:42]: You lead people. Mary Meyer [59:44]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [59:45]: All right? Mary Meyer [59:46]: I've had someone say this on the pr- on the podcast too. I think it was the very first podcast. So it's like, there's some, there's some synergy with this. Dan Rochon [59:53]: Yeah. Mary Meyer [59:53]: Manage things and lead people. Dan Rochon [59:55]: And, and if you find yourself trying to manage people, then you may not be as effective as if you find yourself leading the right people. Dan Rochon [60:06]: So the, the, the, the thing there that's, that's sort of like the catch is if you get in business with the wrong people, it's really hard to lead the wrong people because- Dan Rochon [60:14]: ... there's not alignment. Mary Meyer [60:16]: Yeah. Yeah. And it's, which is another reason sometimes to start your own business is if you can't find something that you're aligned to with leadership, so it can go both ways. Mary Meyer [60:26]: Um, I, I, I feel like we need to, like... And I, c- 'cause you're... Well, you're aligned with a company, but you're also, you know, running your own business, and there is, like, there's... I feel like that is just something that isn't learned enough, uh, through the school system, so. Mary Meyer [60:45]: And you get into life and you're like, "Maybe I should consider that," and it's nice that there are people out there kind of paving the way with great ideas like yourself- Dan Rochon [60:55]: Thank you Mary Meyer [60:55]: ... on things to do also. Dan Rochon [60:56]: They're not my ideas. They're just re- ideas repurposed. Mary Meyer [60:59]: Ideas repurposed. Repurposed and, uh... Okay, well, that's fine too. Mary Meyer [61:04]: Ideas repurposed and sent into the world, but I've not heard of them, so-I appreciate that Dan Rochon [61:08]: Here's my idea, here's my idea about ideas. I'm not naive enough, if I think that I have a brilliant idea, the first thing that I do is I study to see who had this idea before me. Dan Rochon [61:20]: Okay? Mary Meyer [61:21]: Yeah. Dan Rochon [61:21]: Now, if I can't find somebody that had that idea before me, one of two things is true. I'm either a genius with a one in a billion idea, or the idea's not a good idea. Mary Meyer [61:37]: Yeah. Well- Dan Rochon [61:39]: Just something to think about Mary Meyer [61:41]: ... yeah. Yeah. They're probably, that, that makes sense Dan Rochon [61:44]: Or maybe instead of calling myself a genius with a one in billion, maybe, maybe let me reframe that. Dan Rochon [61:48]: I'm very, very lucky with a one out of a billion idea. Or one out of a trillion idea, whatever the case may be. Mary Meyer [61:54]: Yeah. But you know, just speaking, speaking great ideas and truth into the world, I think there's a, that is of so much value. Mary Meyer [62:02]: And I think we need to hear it regularly and often because I, I know I have forgotten more than I've learned in many ways. Mary Meyer [62:13]: You know? Dan Rochon [62:13]: You just keep learning. Mary Meyer [62:14]: Yeah. Then you just keep learning. So you know, we're about at an hour here already. Dan Rochon [62:18]: Wow. Mary Meyer [62:18]: So Dan, tell us, uh, how, how we can, how people can... You, 'cause you do keynotes- Dan Rochon [62:23]: Yeah Mary Meyer [62:23]: ... you have a podcast. Uh, so tell us all the way people can work with you. Dan Rochon [62:28]: Sure. Uh, No Broke Months podcast. The easiest way to find me is simply Google my name, Dan Rochon. Dan Rochon [62:34]: If you come up with the Canadian hockey player without Keith, that's not me. I'm the other guy. Dan Rochon [62:39]: And, um, so Dan Rochon, R-O-C-H-O-N, or you can visit, um, you can visit, uh, the, uh, to get the book, www.teachtosellbook.com. That's teach tosell book dot com. Dan Rochon [62:50]: You can order it on Barnes & Noble or Book a Million or, or Amazon, but if you get it from the, uh, teach tosell book dot com website, you'll get $10,000 of digital training for free, at least for, you know... Dan Rochon [63:01]: You, you buy the book, which is less than 20 bucks, and you get $10,000 of training. So, uh, you only get that at that official website, but you can get it anywhere where books are sold. Mary Meyer [63:10]: That's amazing. So if, uh, someone wants to book you for a keynote speaker, do they go to your website or how do they do that? Dan Rochon [63:17]: NoBrokeMonths.Com and go to the keynote speaker tab, and... Or it's either keynote I think it's a media tab, actually. We changed it to a media tab. Dan Rochon [63:25]: So No Broke Months dot com, and on the, the top toolbar there's a, um, a very visible link for media, so click on there and you'll find out about the different keynote presentations that I provide. Mary Meyer [63:36]: Awesome. I, I love that. Uh, anything else, Dan? What else? Dan Rochon [63:41]: I wanna wish your audience to have the best day of their life, make good choices, help somebody, be grateful, and visit www.teachtosellbook.com. That's all I have to say. Mary Meyer [63:54]: Thank you so much for your time. This has been very insightful, very helpful, and I think a lot of people are gonna really benefit from it, so thank you for coming on, and you guys go get that book. Dan Rochon [64:05]: You're welcome, Mary. Mary Meyer [64:06]: Okay, great. Thanks for joining us. New episodes of Healthy, Happy, Wise, Wealthy with fabulous guests drop every Thursday. Mary Meyer [64:14]: Also, you can follow our socials @HealthyHappyWiseWealthy on Instagram, Facebook, or TikTok. Mary Meyer [64:19]: You can watch episodes on YouTube @HealthyWiseWealthyNetwork, and in all these places, please like, follow, and subscribe. See you next time.