Latest / Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast / IFH 813: Building Films from Scratch: Mastering Microbudget Movie-Making with Evan Kidd

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IFH 813: Building Films from Scratch: Mastering Microbudget Movie-Making with Evan Kidd · Indie Film Hustle® - A Filmmaking Podcast

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: You are listening to the ifh podcast Network. For more
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  Speaker 1: amazing filmmaking and screenwriting podcasts, just go to ifhpodcastnetwork dot com.
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  Speaker 2: Welcome to the Indie Film Muscle Podcast, Episode number eight
• 0:15
  Speaker 2: and thirteen. Cinema should make You forget. You're sitting in
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  Speaker 2: a theater, Roman Polanski.
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  Speaker 1: Broadcasting from the back alley in Hollywood. It's the Indie
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: Film Hustle Podcast, where we show you how to survive
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: and thrive as an indie filmmaker in the jungles of
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: the film biz.
• 0:32
  Speaker 3: And here's your host, Alex Ferrari.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Welcome, Welcome to another episode of the Indie Film Huscle Podcast.
• 0:38
  Speaker 3: I am your humble.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: Host, Alex Ferrari. Today's show is sponsored by Rise of
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  Speaker 2: the Film Entrepreneur How to turn your independent film into
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  Speaker 2: a profitable business. It's harder today than ever before for
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  Speaker 2: independent filmmakers to make money with their films from predatory
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  Speaker 2: The distribution model of making money with your film is broken,
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  Speaker 2: independent filmmaking is the entrepreneurial filmmaker or the film entrepreneur.
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• 1:50
  Speaker 2: today's episode with guest host Dave Bullis.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Our next guest. We talk a lot about team building
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: and how do you find those reliable people, how do
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  Speaker 3: you find that you know you can collaborate with, you know,
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: And we also talk a lot about resource base film making,
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: you know, aka the Rodriguez lists, because you shouldn't make
• 2:09
  Speaker 3: no if you're gonna make a film, I'm not talking
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: about a student film. If you're gonna make a film nowadays,
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  Speaker 3: and you know you don't have a bunch of money
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  Speaker 3: in the bank. You know, you're not gonna be able
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  Speaker 3: to find some VC who's just gonna, you know, money,
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  Speaker 3: drop a million dollars in your bank account. What you
• 2:25
  Speaker 3: should do is, you know, use what resources you have
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  Speaker 3: to make a film. Don't make a colossal space movie
• 2:32
  Speaker 3: or some action movie like a La John Wu. It's
• 2:36
  Speaker 3: just gonna end up blowing up in your face. And
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I and take it from personal experience, it has blown
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  Speaker 3: up in my face before when I've tried to just
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: shoot for the moon and you end up with a
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  Speaker 3: with a half done movie that the effects don't look
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  Speaker 3: good enough. You know, a movie that comes to mind
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: is Primer. If you've ever seen Primer, you know, it's
• 2:56
  Speaker 3: it's a whole movie about time travel and the guy
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  Speaker 3: shot at Shane Krutz out of for like seven thousand dollars,
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  Speaker 3: and it's it's very well done. It's a very cerebral movie.
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  Speaker 3: But it just shows what you can do with the
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  Speaker 3: right resources and the right script. But speak of the
• 3:10
  Speaker 3: right resources and the right script. You know, my next guest,
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  Speaker 3: we're gonna be talking about just that. We're gonna be
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  Speaker 3: talking about all of this stuff and it is a
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  Speaker 3: phenomenal phenomenal for conversation with guests. Evan Kidd Hey, Evan,
• 3:24
  Speaker 3: thanks off coming on the show. Hey, thanks for having
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  Speaker 3: me Man, Hey, my pleasure. Evan. You know, it's a
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  Speaker 3: question I always ask everybody. It's a question I just
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: always begin every interview with, and that question is, Evan,
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  Speaker 3: what got you started in the film industry.
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  Speaker 4: I think just a love of the craft of cinema.
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  Speaker 4: You know, It's it's that simple for me, as you
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  Speaker 4: know the other filmmakers have said this before, but you know,
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  Speaker 4: I'm really no different.
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  Speaker 5: Like I grew up around it.
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  Speaker 4: We watched a lot of movies in my house growing up,
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  Speaker 4: and it was kind of the default. If something wasn't
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  Speaker 4: going on, you know, parents would put on a movie,
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  Speaker 4: we'd watch it, and I just kind of grew up
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  Speaker 4: in that culture.
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  Speaker 5: You know.
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  Speaker 4: I ended up stealing my dad's VHS camera a lot
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  Speaker 4: of times when I was like three and four years old,
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  Speaker 4: and I would you know, shoot stuff around the house
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  Speaker 4: and the pets and you know, stuff around the neighborhood.
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  Speaker 4: So it kind of just grew really naturally. And then
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  Speaker 4: when I went, you know, into high school, there was
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  Speaker 4: like this little uh you know, film in the morning
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  Speaker 4: announcements class, which was really cut and dry, but gave
• 4:22
  Speaker 4: you access to you know, tripods and editing software and
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  Speaker 4: stuff like that. So I would kind of use that
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  Speaker 4: after hours and do what I wanted, and I thought
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  Speaker 4: that was cool. And then that was around the time
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  Speaker 4: YouTube is really taking off, and so, you know, I
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  Speaker 4: think all those things kind of gelled together to propel
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  Speaker 4: me into you know, pursuing it once I got to
• 4:38
  Speaker 4: college and kind of from there it's been history. So
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  Speaker 4: it's you know, been pretty natural. But I think it's
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  Speaker 4: also been a direct correlation to how you know, over
• 4:46
  Speaker 4: the years, technology has really allowed more people into the
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  Speaker 4: film business. You know, I've never had a huge inkling
• 4:53
  Speaker 4: to just go and direct you know, Avengers five or whatever.
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  Speaker 5: For me, it's always just.
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  Speaker 4: Been about telling a compelling story with you know, resources
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  Speaker 4: around me, whether that be you know, casting crew or
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  Speaker 4: just you know the technology that you know, so many
• 5:05
  Speaker 4: of us have access to.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, very true. And you know, I remember
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: those big VHS cameras. Yeah see see, you and I
• 5:12
  Speaker 3: are kind of sort of around the same age, I mean,
• 5:15
  Speaker 3: but you know, and sometimes some of my guests are
• 5:17
  Speaker 3: a little bit older than I am, so you know,
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  Speaker 3: they didn't have that. They had this like the Super Ring. Hey,
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  Speaker 3: that's what they remember when they were a kid, you know.
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  Speaker 3: And and guys like us, we had the you know
• 5:26
  Speaker 3: those big old it looks like a big boom box
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: you put on your shoulder. You couldn't use it for
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: more than five minutes or you know, you'd kill your
• 5:32
  Speaker 3: back and your neck, and you know, it looked like
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  Speaker 3: a bazooka and uh, you know, and then now they
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: went to many DV but yeah, you know, I remember
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  Speaker 3: when YouTube first was taking off in like two thousand
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: and four, two thousand and five. Yeah, and I remember
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  Speaker 3: just being blown away. And I remember, you know, people
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  Speaker 3: were just putting up different stuff and it was still
• 5:48
  Speaker 3: on the you know, nobody really talked about it until
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  Speaker 3: a few years later, and then all of a sudden,
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  Speaker 3: it was like this freaking juggernaut exactly.
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  Speaker 5: I mean I remember when it first, you know, launched off.
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  Speaker 5: I was like, we can put online video on the Internet.
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  Speaker 4: And you know, that time, my parents believed I was
• 6:01
  Speaker 4: still a dial up So that concept was in like
• 6:03
  Speaker 4: two thousand and four, super foreign to me. And so
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  Speaker 4: you know, I would only watch YouTube literally at school
• 6:09
  Speaker 4: and we weren't even supposed to do that. So, you know,
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  Speaker 4: for me, it was like technology was just slowly emerging
• 6:14
  Speaker 4: out of the shell. And then, you know, give it
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  Speaker 4: a few months, you know, most everyone including my family,
• 6:19
  Speaker 4: got you know, DSL and you know, faster internet, and
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  Speaker 4: everything kind of started catching up to what you could do.
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  Speaker 4: And for me that was extremely exciting. And I remember
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  Speaker 4: thinking I could just make a movie and put it
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  Speaker 4: on YouTube, like, holy shit, that's crazy, like and you know,
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  Speaker 4: for me, that didn't even seem within the realm of possibility.
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  Speaker 4: But you know, like I was saying, given a little
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  Speaker 4: bit of technology, I think that's half the reason I'm
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  Speaker 4: able to do what I do and so many others.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, totally agree. And you know, I actually want to
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  Speaker 3: get into that too, about you know, making your film
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  Speaker 3: Son of Clowns and you know, working with all the
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  Speaker 3: resources you have around you. But I wanted to ask
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  Speaker 3: really quickly, did you go to film school?
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  Speaker 5: I did.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I went to East Carolina University a couple of
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  Speaker 4: years ago. I graduated from that in Greenville, North Carolina,
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  Speaker 4: and it was a great program. I really enjoyed it
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  Speaker 4: definitely taught me a lot I think it was a
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  Speaker 4: lot more of a technical program in terms of how
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  Speaker 4: to operate a camera, cut your own stuff like that
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  Speaker 4: than it was you know, truly trying to craft you know,
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  Speaker 4: screenplays and all that.
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  Speaker 5: There was screenwriting classes, but I kind of think it
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  Speaker 5: geared more to that.
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  Speaker 4: So I did a lot of learning on my own
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  Speaker 4: in terms of you know, the story structure and all that. Like,
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  Speaker 4: it was definitely there, but I think if you really
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  Speaker 4: really wanted to get the full you know, breadth of it,
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  Speaker 4: I would talk to my professors and they'd be like,
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: you know, here's this resource. You got to look at
• 7:30
  Speaker 4: it on your own hours just because it wasn't built
• 7:32
  Speaker 4: into every part of the curriculum. But I would definitely
• 7:34
  Speaker 4: recommend it. It was a great program and really cut
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  Speaker 4: my teeth there for sure. You know, met a lot
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  Speaker 4: of the people who would end up helping me make
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: Son of Clowns and other films like that. But yeah,
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  Speaker 4: definitely you think that is you know, important in it,
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  Speaker 4: and you know, at the very least it gave me
• 7:49
  Speaker 4: the know how because I also do a lot of
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: documentary work and so a lot of designs in those situations,
• 7:54
  Speaker 4: I don't have as big of a crew as I would,
• 7:56
  Speaker 4: you know, my narrative stuff, and like, you know, shooting
• 7:58
  Speaker 4: something last last month, and I was literally the only
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: crew member. And it was kind of by design, like
• 8:05
  Speaker 4: if I really dug around, I could have you know,
• 8:06
  Speaker 4: probably got a camera operator or sound designer or stuff
• 8:09
  Speaker 4: like that. But it was just such a you know,
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  Speaker 4: sporadic opportunity I didn't have time. And so in those occasions,
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  Speaker 4: I'm really glad I went to film school because otherwise
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  Speaker 4: I don't know if I'd know how to operate a camera,
• 8:21
  Speaker 4: run sound, you know, kind of do all those technical things.
• 8:23
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you know, that's a question I usually ask.
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: You know, certain people have come on and they said, Dave,
• 8:29
  Speaker 3: film school is a waste of time. Some people have
• 8:31
  Speaker 3: come on and said, hey, film school was phenomenal to me,
• 8:34
  Speaker 3: and you know, and it's it's something I always go
• 8:36
  Speaker 3: back to because you know, our experience is your perception
• 8:39
  Speaker 3: equals reality, and you know, if your perception of if
• 8:42
  Speaker 3: something is you know, skewed, or something is perception, if
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: something is hey, listen, my experience was terrible, you know,
• 8:47
  Speaker 3: and my perception of it is it was totally worthless,
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: you know. You know, so I just ask people to
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: be honest, you know what I mean, and if and
• 8:54
  Speaker 3: and I always like hearing people's different experiences. I know,
• 8:57
  Speaker 3: my listeners like hearing different people's experiences about this stuff
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: because I think it's that's critical, you know what I mean.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: And it's sort of something you've touched on with what
• 9:05
  Speaker 3: you just said is also something critical, and that is
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: building a team. And I always ask people, you know,
• 9:09
  Speaker 3: how did you build your team? You know, where does
• 9:10
  Speaker 3: your where did you guys meet?
• 9:12
  Speaker 4: Uh?
• 9:12
  Speaker 3: You know, and and you met your whole team through
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: film school?
• 9:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, most of them. I did meet a lot of them,
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: a couple.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: Of folks after the fact, but you know, I think
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: it was that network that really makes film school and valuable,
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: you know. And I've heard a lot of people say,
• 9:26
  Speaker 4: you don't need film school. I've heard a lot of
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: people say, oh, yeah, you got to do it, or
• 9:30
  Speaker 4: else you're screwed. I kind of fall in the middle
• 9:32
  Speaker 4: of the road thinking, you know, obviously I'm a product
• 9:34
  Speaker 4: of a film school and I went to one, but
• 9:36
  Speaker 4: at the same time, it was a film school that
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: I think, really, you know, it kind of forced me
• 9:40
  Speaker 4: to do a lot of outside learning outside of the program.
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: So I think I kind of good, got a good
• 9:44
  Speaker 4: breadth of you know, a lot of different options. You know,
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: Like I said, I there's this story I always tell
• 9:50
  Speaker 4: I made this documentary called spaz Out a couple of
• 9:52
  Speaker 4: years ago and the project was, you know, out of
• 9:56
  Speaker 4: this documentary class I was taking an undergrad.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: I'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 10:06
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: And basically you had to make this ten minute documentary
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: over the course of about two months.
• 10:13
  Speaker 5: And it was the story.
• 10:14
  Speaker 4: You know I was telling, was about this underground punk
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: roy music scene and there was you know.
• 10:18
  Speaker 5: Doing shows out of this warehouse.
• 10:20
  Speaker 4: It was super legal, but there was a lot of
• 10:22
  Speaker 4: you know heart in the you know, people trying to
• 10:24
  Speaker 4: make music happen and it and to me, it felt
• 10:26
  Speaker 4: like a bigger story. So I, you know, wanted to
• 10:27
  Speaker 4: make something longer. And we're talking to my professor and
• 10:30
  Speaker 4: he was like, why do you want to make it
• 10:31
  Speaker 4: a bigger story? And I was like, just because I
• 10:33
  Speaker 4: feel like that's the best way to tell it. And
• 10:35
  Speaker 4: he was like, if that's your reason, then go for it.
• 10:38
  Speaker 4: And you know, I think that has stayed with me
• 10:40
  Speaker 4: because a lot of times I want to make projects
• 10:43
  Speaker 4: that maybe aren't originally thought of or aren't originally you know,
• 10:47
  Speaker 4: in the you know, quote unquote guidelines of something. And
• 10:50
  Speaker 4: I think film school is a you know, great launching pad.
• 10:53
  Speaker 4: So you know, I guess I got a little off track,
• 10:55
  Speaker 4: but I would say, you know, coming back around, you know,
• 10:58
  Speaker 4: I think it really depends for each person. Like if
• 11:00
  Speaker 4: you are going to go into extreme debt and you know,
• 11:03
  Speaker 4: you know, it might kind of mess up your trajectory
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: for the next couple of years, and you're pretty self taught,
• 11:08
  Speaker 4: you watch YouTube videos and stuff like that, you may
• 11:10
  Speaker 4: not need that kind of technical guidance. But you know, again,
• 11:14
  Speaker 4: if you want the resources and the crew base and
• 11:17
  Speaker 4: the you know, internships and stuff like that, you're not
• 11:19
  Speaker 4: going to get that through YouTube tutorials. So I think
• 11:21
  Speaker 4: it really is kind of something each person needs to
• 11:24
  Speaker 4: weigh individually.
• 11:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's very true. A friend of mine, you know,
• 11:29
  Speaker 3: he went to uh I think he went to n YU,
• 11:31
  Speaker 3: and you know, Morton Scrissese comes in to talk to
• 11:34
  Speaker 3: a class like once a semester or whatever, and you know,
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: when he walked in, he was like, holy shit, Morten
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: scrisseg just walked in the Root and was like, Hey,
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: everybody want to talk about film, And it's like, who's
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: gonna who's gonna say no? First off? And you know
• 11:46
  Speaker 3: what I mean, but it's uh, but it's that, you know,
• 11:48
  Speaker 3: that's the benefit he got from going to n YU
• 11:51
  Speaker 3: or you know, and if you go to USC, I
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: think Steven Spielberg comes in like once a semester as well.
• 11:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and I mean that's invaluable. I mean, if you're
• 11:57
  Speaker 5: able to get that, how do you pass it up?
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: Like you said?
• 12:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah, And but you know, it's you know, that's something
• 12:03
  Speaker 3: I want to talk about too, is you know, building
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: your team, you know, and using those resources around you
• 12:08
  Speaker 3: to actually make your film. And I want to ask
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: you about building your team. So you know, Evan, when
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: you were building your team, I don't maybe you did,
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: maybe you didn't, But I don't know if anybody really
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: goes out with that mindset of, Hey, you know what
• 12:20
  Speaker 3: I'm going to go today, look for a team that
• 12:22
  Speaker 3: I could put together. I think it sort of happens naturally,
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: It happens organically, and eventually, you know, something clicks in
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: your mind where you go, hey, I could work with
• 12:29
  Speaker 3: this person as a producer, you know what I mean.
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: And I think you know that's how people sort of
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: build teams, as I found doing this podcast and even
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: my own experiences in making stuff. So you know, what
• 12:40
  Speaker 3: are some of the qualities, Evan, that you find with
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: your team that that when you were sort of putting
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: them together when you when you you know, may may
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: may put that team together to make Sun of Clowns.
• 12:50
  Speaker 4: Your team is your backbone, and you are pretty much.
• 12:55
  Speaker 5: As made as your team is made.
• 12:57
  Speaker 4: I guess I would say, uh. And so you know
• 12:59
  Speaker 4: it's like a team. You're the coach, but you want
• 13:01
  Speaker 4: to pick your players. And when you're making something like
• 13:05
  Speaker 4: the way we made my feature film Son of Clowns,
• 13:08
  Speaker 4: for example, you know, that was the biggest crew I've
• 13:11
  Speaker 4: ever you know, had the opportunity to work with up
• 13:13
  Speaker 4: to this point. And you know, certain days were better
• 13:16
  Speaker 4: than others. You know, certain days we'd have very small crew,
• 13:18
  Speaker 4: like six seven people. Other days we'd have a bigger crew,
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: a lot of pas, you know, probably fifteen twenty. And
• 13:24
  Speaker 4: so most everyone in that crew worked for free.
• 13:29
  Speaker 5: No one made money.
• 13:30
  Speaker 4: And that's the thing that's tricky because when you're in
• 13:33
  Speaker 4: micro budget cinema, like, no one cares. Before I made
• 13:37
  Speaker 4: the film, no one cared if I made some of clowns.
• 13:40
  Speaker 4: I was the only person that cared, you know, the
• 13:41
  Speaker 4: actors and the crew, but no one else cares. And
• 13:44
  Speaker 4: that's the kind of rough truth that you need to
• 13:47
  Speaker 4: get around, is that you know, when you're making your
• 13:49
  Speaker 4: micro budget, no one cares. And once you kind of
• 13:52
  Speaker 4: accept that, and once you say, okay, people will care
• 13:55
  Speaker 4: once we make it. But like, up until this point,
• 13:57
  Speaker 4: you don't have investors. You're really bankrolling on your on
• 14:00
  Speaker 4: credit card, which is what I did. Basically, My mentality
• 14:03
  Speaker 4: was fine people who want to a work because in
• 14:07
  Speaker 4: that time, the North Carolina film incentives just crashed because
• 14:10
  Speaker 4: of some stupid politics and so a lot of people
• 14:12
  Speaker 4: were out of jobs and a lot of people were
• 14:15
  Speaker 4: kind of sitting around anyway. So I was like, well,
• 14:17
  Speaker 4: instead of sitting around, let's all do something.
• 14:19
  Speaker 5: You know. I took a hit from that, and a
• 14:20
  Speaker 5: lot of other people did, because.
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: By day I do a lot of crew work, you know,
• 14:23
  Speaker 4: ac stuff like that, and so you know, for me,
• 14:27
  Speaker 4: it was kind of a situation where let's make the
• 14:29
  Speaker 4: best out of, you know, something that sucks and then
• 14:32
  Speaker 4: you know, I would say on the second thing, when
• 14:34
  Speaker 4: you find crew that are passionate, grab those people because
• 14:39
  Speaker 4: those are the people you want with you on the battlefield,
• 14:41
  Speaker 4: so to speak. Those people will you know, stay the
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: extra hour. Those people won't mind if you do lunch
• 14:48
  Speaker 4: an hour or two late. You know, those people really
• 14:50
  Speaker 4: just want to get your story. And I'm a big
• 14:53
  Speaker 4: believer in you know, quote unquote working for free. Yeah,
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: no one got paid. I definitely didn't get paid. I
• 14:58
  Speaker 4: went to the Red but you know, it was my movie,
• 14:59
  Speaker 4: so I totally understand that. But every other aspect of
• 15:02
  Speaker 4: this production, I said, let me not make it so
• 15:05
  Speaker 4: it costs people money. Okay, so let me fill up
• 15:08
  Speaker 4: the gas tanks, let me get all their meals covered,
• 15:11
  Speaker 4: you know, let me give them something great for their
• 15:13
  Speaker 4: real Let me actually publicize this film, because I think
• 15:17
  Speaker 4: the thing that happens and why a lot of people
• 15:19
  Speaker 4: are hesitant to do free work is because they've been
• 15:22
  Speaker 4: burned in the past. And I've had it happen to
• 15:24
  Speaker 4: me when you you know, work on something for free.
• 15:27
  Speaker 4: I think a lot of times there's this kind of
• 15:29
  Speaker 4: you know, hesitant notion, which I totally understand. Like I
• 15:33
  Speaker 4: do a lot of crew work for a living. That's
• 15:34
  Speaker 4: how I make a lot of my money. And for me,
• 15:38
  Speaker 4: like I will work on a free project, but I
• 15:40
  Speaker 4: have to know where it's going. Will it be sent
• 15:43
  Speaker 4: out to festivals? Because the last thing anyone wants is
• 15:45
  Speaker 4: to work on a film and just have it get
• 15:46
  Speaker 4: thrown up on YouTube, get about one hundred videws and
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: then no one cares. You know, people want to know
• 15:51
  Speaker 4: they're part of a project that's going to at least
• 15:53
  Speaker 4: try to go somewhere. Like everyone knows it's not guaranteed,
• 15:56
  Speaker 4: but at the very end of the day, there has
• 15:58
  Speaker 4: to be some effort being made. So tried to be
• 16:00
  Speaker 4: as transparent about that possible with like, you know, the
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: whole cast and crew. You know, I sent them emails
• 16:04
  Speaker 4: for months and months after the fact. You know, we
• 16:06
  Speaker 4: got into this film festival. We're gonna submit here, you know,
• 16:10
  Speaker 4: stuff like that. You know, give everyone their footage promptly
• 16:13
  Speaker 4: so they can put it on a reel that you know,
• 16:15
  Speaker 4: that kind of thing. Just just be a decent person.
• 16:17
  Speaker 4: You know, if you can't pay people, try to, you know,
• 16:21
  Speaker 4: make all the rest of the filmmakers who don't have
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: a lot of money look good.
• 16:25
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know that that that's something I agree
• 16:27
  Speaker 3: with too, is I think people have been burning in
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: the past by free work and it's sort of you know,
• 16:32
  Speaker 3: maybe they've worked for free for you know, a person
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: and it's never been reciprocating, so they kind of say,
• 16:37
  Speaker 3: you know, I I you know, now I'm in the
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: hole now, so to speak. And you know, I got
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: into a friend of mine and actually teaches you know,
• 16:43
  Speaker 3: film at a high school, and he and I gotten
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: this whole thing before because we were talking about free work,
• 16:49
  Speaker 3: and you know, some people say do it, some people
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: say don't do it, and basically we all The thing
• 16:55
  Speaker 3: that we have a problem with was when I was
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: making my student front films, I I said, you know,
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I need some some help, and some people offer to
• 17:01
  Speaker 3: work for free. Well, they would come on and then
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: they would sort of act like they don't need to
• 17:06
  Speaker 3: be professional or act like they need to actually do
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: their job the right way, because hey, you're not paying
• 17:11
  Speaker 3: me anything, so what the hell is the difference?
• 17:14
  Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that's the reason a lot of
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: these people have bad experiences is because there's a lack
• 17:19
  Speaker 4: of professionality on some free sets. I'm not going to say, all,
• 17:23
  Speaker 4: but you know, the way I coordinated my set, I
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: would say, and a lot of people told me it
• 17:28
  Speaker 4: ran very professionally, and a lot of people said they
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: were shocked, you know both you know, day players who
• 17:33
  Speaker 4: just had you know, one scene, they were just come
• 17:35
  Speaker 4: in and out, and you know, people who are there for.
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: The long haul too.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: A lot of people said that, and you know, I
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: guess I could take it as a compliment, but for me,
• 17:43
  Speaker 4: I want that to be the bar like I don't
• 17:45
  Speaker 4: want I don't want that to be the exception to
• 17:48
  Speaker 4: the rule, you know.
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's the other thing too. You always make
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: sure your set's running good. But again that's having that
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: team right, you know, making sure you have a producer
• 17:57
  Speaker 3: who you know and if that person's going to be
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: the producer. You know, do you have a UPM you know,
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: do you you know have a location manager? Do you
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: have you know a solid first a d uh?
• 18:09
  Speaker 5: You know?
• 18:09
  Speaker 3: Do you have a solid cinematographer? Usually? What you know,
• 18:12
  Speaker 3: when what I've come across is when someone's going to
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: make a project and they have people work for free,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: usually there's one sexy selling point. And what I mean
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: by that is usually they have some amazing location they
• 18:23
  Speaker 3: can use, or you know, some kind of you know, uh.
• 18:27
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 18:27
  Speaker 3: For instance, had a friend of mine make a film
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: and he ended up having a world class cinematographer on there. Uh,
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: and that was the selling point, going, look, you know,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: the film's gonna look good, and you know because we
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: have this cinematographer. And people were actually more interested in
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: enjoying the project because they said, hey, if this prop
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: person is a part of it, you know what I mean,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: then it's gonna be good.
• 18:47
  Speaker 4: Definitely, I would say, you know, for us, maybe it's
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: kind of half a miracle that we pulled it off.
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: You know, I never had an ad for any of
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: these days, so I mean it was I lost my
• 18:58
  Speaker 4: voice so much just because I was doing double duty,
• 19:02
  Speaker 4: you know, with the directing and especially there's a scene
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: in here where we had like forty extras and majority
• 19:06
  Speaker 4: of them were you know, kids under the age of eight.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: So you know, like I said, trying to get that
• 19:11
  Speaker 4: many people at it was a party scene, so there
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: was a noise and a whole bunch of stuff coordinated is
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: very difficult. But I'm a firm believer. If you know,
• 19:20
  Speaker 4: you put something to mind, it truly can happen as
• 19:23
  Speaker 4: corny as it sounds. Would I do it that way
• 19:25
  Speaker 4: againified a choice? No, But you know, I think a
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: lot of times in micro budget cinema, you just got
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: to treat it like it's almost its own separate thing
• 19:34
  Speaker 4: from normal filmmaking, because.
• 19:36
  Speaker 5: You know it well.
• 19:38
  Speaker 4: I say that not as a slight to it, but
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: you know, when you get put in these situations like,
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: for example, another thing that happened during filming, our sound
• 19:46
  Speaker 4: guy got sick on the third day, and you know,
• 19:48
  Speaker 4: thanks to going to ECU, and you had to run
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: a boom. None of our pas had touched it. And
• 19:53
  Speaker 4: I was like, okay, it was our shortest day.
• 19:57
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: I'm gonna have to run this boom. And I was
• 20:08
  Speaker 4: not excited about it. But it was like everyone came out.
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: We had this restaurant cleared out, and it was the
• 20:13
  Speaker 4: only day we were gonna be able to get in
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: this restaurant, and if we didn't shoot, we're going to
• 20:17
  Speaker 4: lose the location. And you know, we waste a whole
• 20:19
  Speaker 4: bunch of people's time, and blah blah blah, so I
• 20:22
  Speaker 4: mean it's really just rolling with the punches, and you know,
• 20:24
  Speaker 4: we pulled it off.
• 20:25
  Speaker 5: I made it work again. Would I choose to do that.
• 20:28
  Speaker 4: No, But I think when you do work in micro budget,
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: you just kind of have to be flexible. And you know,
• 20:34
  Speaker 4: definitely if anyone has ego, I mean, check that shit
• 20:37
  Speaker 4: at the door, because that does not even fly. Like,
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: you know, had I been on a normal set, there
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: would be no way in hell I would touch a
• 20:45
  Speaker 4: boom pole.
• 20:46
  Speaker 5: But in a.
• 20:47
  Speaker 4: Situation like that where you're making your movie, you know,
• 20:51
  Speaker 4: for me, this was like one of the most personal
• 20:53
  Speaker 4: stories I've ever told, you know, in a lot of ways,
• 20:55
  Speaker 4: and so you know, for me, I just wanted to
• 20:57
  Speaker 4: get the thing made and so I knew, okay, I
• 21:00
  Speaker 4: got to bite the bullet do this, and I'm just
• 21:01
  Speaker 4: kind of rolled the punches.
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah, Ego is something that is very dangerous, and you know,
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: I've I've been a part of some projects, man, where
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: some people's egos were so unbelievable. And you know, I'm
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: usually sort of the bad cop, like I'll be the guy,
• 21:18
  Speaker 3: and I don't mean I don't you know, just you know,
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: you don't fight fire a fire right away. I just
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: sort of get to take them aside and say, hey, guy,
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: you know, maybe we should just tone this down. I
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: think some people, you know, and you know, I mean,
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: I've met some people who were just I don't know
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: where they get their ego from. It's it's almost like
• 21:32
  Speaker 3: somebody when they were younger told them that they were
• 21:35
  Speaker 3: so special and so talented, and they can everybody else
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: can just go fuck themselves and then you and then
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: they come to these film sets and it's like, hey,
• 21:43
  Speaker 3: I'm here, let me you know, real quick, little funny story.
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: I went to a a friend of mine's film set
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: and it was about that it was a horror movie,
• 21:49
  Speaker 3: it was a slasher film, and there was this PA
• 21:52
  Speaker 3: that was walking around who thought that he was God's
• 21:55
  Speaker 3: gift to film and thought he was so de rel
• 21:57
  Speaker 3: you know, thought he was so misused by being a PA.
• 22:00
  Speaker 3: And I said, hey, you know, you know, what's this
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: guy's deal. I went to shake his hand, he's kind
• 22:03
  Speaker 3: of looked at me, and I was like, what the fuck?
• 22:05
  Speaker 3: And and later on somebody said, oh, yeah, he doesn't
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: want to be a PA. And the director knows he's
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: got an ego problem and just made him a Pa,
• 22:13
  Speaker 3: it's sort of like a punishment type deal. And yeah,
• 22:16
  Speaker 3: I mean it was just I said, why doing this
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: fire the guy? Why do you even have you know,
• 22:20
  Speaker 3: I'd rather have nobody and just put you know, tape
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: on the floor and say, hey, come in here. This way,
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: this ways the craft, this way is the set. Well,
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: this way is the group.
• 22:29
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: So it's like, well, you know, the ego just made
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: it just. I mean, I I you know, I've encountered
• 22:34
  Speaker 3: that before and it really, it really is so toxic
• 22:36
  Speaker 3: because it starts to spread to other people too.
• 22:38
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: I mean when I got out of film school, I
• 22:40
  Speaker 4: worked on Shark Tank for a little bit, and you know,
• 22:43
  Speaker 4: I was a camera pa, and I kind of worked
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: my way up a little bit of that world.
• 22:47
  Speaker 5: You know, it's not really a world.
• 22:48
  Speaker 4: I love hanging out in a lot reality but I've
• 22:51
  Speaker 4: done a lot of it, and you know, I don't
• 22:53
  Speaker 4: think there's anything wrong with it, but I do see actually,
• 22:56
  Speaker 4: believe it or not, a lot of ego in reality TV.
• 22:59
  Speaker 4: And this is on the crew side, not in all shows.
• 23:01
  Speaker 4: And actually Shark Tank is not my example. They were
• 23:03
  Speaker 4: actually very lovely.
• 23:04
  Speaker 5: But I worked on.
• 23:05
  Speaker 4: Some other shows after that, and you know, I saw
• 23:09
  Speaker 4: a lot of these like reality directors. Man, they like
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: thought they were God's gift to Earth, And I'm just like, man,
• 23:15
  Speaker 4: you're you're directing like a fake fight between people on
• 23:21
  Speaker 4: like a TLC show, like what like you know, and
• 23:25
  Speaker 4: I mean there's nothing wrong with that, but I mean,
• 23:29
  Speaker 4: you know, you're gonna get what you kind of deserve
• 23:31
  Speaker 4: gossip wise, I guess by your crew if you're acting,
• 23:34
  Speaker 4: you know, just like an idiot and like you know,
• 23:36
  Speaker 4: telling people, Oh, you don't know who I am. I
• 23:39
  Speaker 4: did this pilot of this. I'm just like, well, I
• 23:41
  Speaker 4: mean half this stuff I've not even heard of. And
• 23:42
  Speaker 4: that's kind of my problem. It's like I don't like
• 23:45
  Speaker 4: pretentiousness on any level. But if you're gonna, like, you know,
• 23:48
  Speaker 4: if in this and I'm sure he's a wonderful guy,
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: but you know, if Scorsese was a little pretentious to me,
• 23:53
  Speaker 4: I guess I could take it because he's Scorsese. But
• 23:56
  Speaker 4: you know, it's like if some of these other people
• 23:58
  Speaker 4: do it, you know, I kind of, you know, have
• 24:01
  Speaker 4: a little question mark over my head and I kind
• 24:03
  Speaker 4: of look at that a little weird. So yeah, for me,
• 24:05
  Speaker 4: I just try to not be pretentious and not not
• 24:08
  Speaker 4: you know, act like an idiot, you know, treat people
• 24:10
  Speaker 4: with respect.
• 24:11
  Speaker 5: You know, I've been there, I've been the PA.
• 24:13
  Speaker 4: I know kind of how much you know it sucks
• 24:15
  Speaker 4: and how a lot of times people take advantage of you.
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: So you know, with this film, I tried to tell
• 24:21
  Speaker 4: my PA's you know, I don't want you to just
• 24:24
  Speaker 4: grab coffee, like I want you to tell me what
• 24:27
  Speaker 4: you want to do and will put you near that
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: department or if you have questions, you know, between takes,
• 24:34
  Speaker 4: feel free, like you can talk to me like I
• 24:36
  Speaker 4: don't want to ever appear or seem unapproachable.
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: So that that's kind of my mindset.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the you know, I we can understands Scorsese's pretentious.
• 24:47
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 24:47
  Speaker 3: I had one time I was on a film set
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: and one of the guys said was arguing with another guy,
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: and he says, do you.
• 24:55
  Speaker 5: Know who I am?
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: I won the South Blah blah blah Film Festival. No
• 24:59
  Speaker 3: one's ever heard of this fucking film festival. And and
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: the fact that he won it with some movie called
• 25:05
  Speaker 3: it was called like dirt Bag or sleeves Bag or something,
• 25:07
  Speaker 3: and and he screened at one time, and I was like,
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: this movie won a film festival. I said, what was
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: the two entries? And uh, but like when he said that,
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: everyone just kind of laughed, and it's just like, you know,
• 25:20
  Speaker 3: you there's there's two options. Either you're just ignore that
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: guy or people start to fuck with them, you know
• 25:25
  Speaker 3: what I mean, Like.
• 25:26
  Speaker 4: Well, well, my dad always had a saying when I
• 25:29
  Speaker 4: was a kid, when I you know, act it out
• 25:31
  Speaker 4: or whatever, you don't have to be like you know,
• 25:32
  Speaker 4: if if I could roll the tape back on that
• 25:35
  Speaker 4: and show you, you'd really see how much of an
• 25:36
  Speaker 4: idiot you were. And I you know, I apply that
• 25:40
  Speaker 4: to anyone else I meet, because I think a lot
• 25:42
  Speaker 4: of times in the heat of the moment, people say
• 25:44
  Speaker 4: stupid stuff. But you know, if we were to roll
• 25:46
  Speaker 4: the tape back, so to speak, on everyone, I think
• 25:48
  Speaker 4: a lot of people would admit, wow, I'm coming across
• 25:50
  Speaker 4: like a douchebag.
• 25:54
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I I That's why it is so important about
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: building that team, to just make sure you know all
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: those goes or toxic people or people who are going
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: to try to, you know, take over the project. You know,
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: I had one time some people message me and I
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: wasn't even part of the project, and they were working
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: with a friend of mine and they said, Dave, can
• 26:12
  Speaker 3: you go talk to him because he's listening to this
• 26:14
  Speaker 3: one guy who started off as nothing. He was just
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: like a consultant, and now all of a sudden he's
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: a producer and he's going and telling us how he's
• 26:22
  Speaker 3: trying to micromanage everybody. And they said, you know this
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: was this started off as a fun little project and
• 26:26
  Speaker 3: now this guy's like ruining every everything. Can you can
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: you talk to him? To my friend who was in charge,
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: and I said, I don't think I can go down
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: that path because he like, because you know what I mean,
• 26:36
  Speaker 3: because he likes that guy so much. It's like you
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: got to pick and choose your battles of what.
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: The well absolutely and going back to what you said
• 26:42
  Speaker 4: about the team, I mean, that's the most important aspect,
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: you know, both in life and in filmmaking, is just
• 26:47
  Speaker 4: surround yourself with good people.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Yes, very true. Can all those negative people, those hateful, passive,
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: aggressive people? And you know, I just read an article
• 26:57
  Speaker 3: on Twitter the other day about how how like this
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: snarky attitude that some people have, Like, oh yeah, that's
• 27:04
  Speaker 3: real fucking cool. You know that attitude you have to
• 27:06
  Speaker 3: get you know that that's even toxic to yourself, you
• 27:09
  Speaker 3: know what I mean. And and so what happens is
• 27:11
  Speaker 3: if you have those people on set, we're like, oh great,
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: we're doing another indie film. Get those people out. I
• 27:16
  Speaker 3: don't care what they've done in the past, how talented
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: they are. Just ask them very politely to leave and
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: just try to, you know, say hey, listen, we thanks,
• 27:24
  Speaker 3: but no thanks.
• 27:25
  Speaker 4: Well, you know, isn't that the worst kind of person,
• 27:27
  Speaker 4: you know, someone who complains about the environment in which
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: they're very part of. You know, it's like, if you're
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: so wonderful, why are you here?
• 27:37
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 27:37
  Speaker 4: It's like I always find that, you know, kind of gross.
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: And you know, anytime I see that, I just kind
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: of have to roll my eyes a little bit. I mean,
• 27:46
  Speaker 4: there's definitely a culture, you know, with certain people who think,
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: you know, they're better than this, or they don't have
• 27:52
  Speaker 4: to do this, or you know. But you know, at
• 27:54
  Speaker 4: the end of the day, it's like, if you feel
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: that way, why did you show up in the first place.
• 27:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:00
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really odd, and I think it is an
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: ego thing, you know, they just want to make themselves
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: feel heard and seen. Like you know what I was
• 28:06
  Speaker 3: gonna I could have been in my apartment today, but
• 28:08
  Speaker 3: instead I'm gonna be out here on this film set
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: telling you how great. Yeah I can't.
• 28:12
  Speaker 4: It's like, you know, I could be in my underpants
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: watching Netflix, but I decided to grace you with my presence,
• 28:18
  Speaker 4: so it's like, oh, thank you.
• 28:22
  Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, it's one of the reasons why I
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: refuse to watch cinema sins and trailer whatever that's called
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: the truth of the trailer or oh honest trailers. That's it.
• 28:33
  Speaker 3: And you know those two things because it's just like
• 28:37
  Speaker 3: the snarky, nitpicking type of deal and and some and
• 28:42
  Speaker 3: you know you could tell that both the people who
• 28:43
  Speaker 3: run them, I guarantee you want to be filmmakers, and
• 28:46
  Speaker 3: they just are too frustrated or can't do it, so
• 28:48
  Speaker 3: they just have to make this thing where they insult
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: other people's work.
• 28:52
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: I mean, I don't know personally for them, but I
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: mean I know there are people that way, definitely, And
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: you know, I think it's unfor fortunate because again not
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: to you.
• 29:03
  Speaker 5: Know, PROD the fire or whatever.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: But you know, nowadays it's easier than ever to be
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: a filmmaker. So it's like, if you're still ragging on people,
• 29:10
  Speaker 4: it's like, damn, what's your excuse?
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: And you know what's funny, dude, Evan. I have friends
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: who I've known who are like that. You know, I'll enter,
• 29:20
  Speaker 3: you know, I'll post what I'm doing on social media, like, hey,
• 29:22
  Speaker 3: I'm entering this contest. This guy sent me an email
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: and it was just this attitude like, oh man, I
• 29:28
  Speaker 3: wish you know, I don't have the time anymore, blah
• 29:31
  Speaker 3: blah blah and this, and I'm like, dude, you know,
• 29:33
  Speaker 3: write a page a day or something I don't know,
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: or write something I mean, you know what, why are
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: you coming to me? You know what I mean?
• 29:38
  Speaker 4: Like and was sitting you up for advice or he
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: was just saying like I'm tired of seeing you talk
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: about stuff.
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: It was more like a backhanded, backhanded compliment Samwich. It
• 29:49
  Speaker 3: was like, hey, good to see you doing stuff well.
• 29:51
  Speaker 3: But then then here comes the passive aggressiveness and then
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: he finishes up with like another compliment.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 30:03
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 30:06
  Speaker 3: So it's kind of like, you know, I don't know
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: how to take this sandwich.
• 30:10
  Speaker 4: But yeah, no, I've gotten a couple of those over
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: the years. And I mean, I think it's just like
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: when you're doing something good.
• 30:16
  Speaker 5: Or well, or you know, maybe not even good.
• 30:18
  Speaker 4: Or well, just in general just being active and not
• 30:21
  Speaker 4: you know, sitting on your couch. You know, some people
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: take offense to that, or some people wish they were
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: doing that, and you know, I mean, again, everyone has
• 30:29
  Speaker 4: their own situation. I'm not going to pretend I know why.
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: You know, some people can't make a film every year
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: or whatever. But you know, to those of us who
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: are attempting to do that, I really don't think you
• 30:38
  Speaker 4: know the way to do it is, you know, backhanded compliments.
• 30:42
  Speaker 4: I mean, if you're interested in truly doing that for yourself,
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: ask how did you do it? Ask how can I
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: help you? Ask can you help me? You know, I
• 30:49
  Speaker 4: think there's a more productive way to have that conversation.
• 30:53
  Speaker 3: And you know what, I want to have that conversation
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: right now, Evan. I want to ask how you did it?
• 30:57
  Speaker 3: Because you know, the son of clowns, you know you
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: you so let me just guess with with what you
• 31:03
  Speaker 3: did and maybe you can correct me. Uh, you know,
• 31:05
  Speaker 3: maybe I'm wrong but you sat down and I think
• 31:09
  Speaker 3: you made an asset list of what you had access to,
• 31:12
  Speaker 3: and you sort of built the script around that, and
• 31:16
  Speaker 3: you sort of and you already had your team in place,
• 31:18
  Speaker 3: and you sort of, you know, you showed your team, hey,
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: I made this, I wrote this script, son of clowns.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: What do you think they need to give you some feedback?
• 31:26
  Speaker 3: And you know, maybe went through a few drafts, and
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: then you were saying, you know what, I think it's
• 31:30
  Speaker 3: ready to make this thing. And you you know, you
• 31:33
  Speaker 3: got those you know, those that asset list you you know,
• 31:36
  Speaker 3: you know you you knew you had access to that stuff,
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: and you were able to sort of put together, you know,
• 31:42
  Speaker 3: a shooting schedule, and you were you know, you put
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: everyone's schedules together, you know, of all the actors, and
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: you know, you got yourself a cinematographer or who was
• 31:51
  Speaker 3: already a part of your team, or you did it yourself,
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: and you were able to, you know, within one degree
• 31:58
  Speaker 3: or another, pretty much shoot the script that you wrote
• 32:02
  Speaker 3: because you were sort of from the inside out. Am
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: I right or wrong?
• 32:04
  Speaker 4: That's pretty pretty accurate to how the dominoes fell. Yeah,
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: I mean pretty much that's what I did you know
• 32:12
  Speaker 4: I started this project completely alone. A couple of months
• 32:16
  Speaker 4: after I got out of film school. I was like, Okay,
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: I want to write something.
• 32:19
  Speaker 5: You know.
• 32:19
  Speaker 4: I was kind of schlepping it out on those reality
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: shows coming home at night, kind of wishing I could
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: do something a little more artistic.
• 32:26
  Speaker 5: So I started writing.
• 32:27
  Speaker 4: And you know, took about you know, yearish And at
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: that point I was finishing some promotion film festival circuit
• 32:35
  Speaker 4: touring for my last short, Displacement Welcome, which was my
• 32:38
  Speaker 4: thesis film from film school at East Carolina, And during
• 32:42
  Speaker 4: one of those kind of interview situations, I met this
• 32:45
  Speaker 4: guy named Bradley Bethel and he was a writer, but
• 32:48
  Speaker 4: he also expressed an interest in wanting to make movies
• 32:51
  Speaker 4: and produce, and he was in the middle of making
• 32:53
  Speaker 4: a documentary and he you know, had a lot of
• 32:55
  Speaker 4: success with that, and he was saying he was interested
• 32:57
  Speaker 4: in kind of shifting into producing narrative as well. So
• 33:01
  Speaker 4: once I met him, it was kind of a combination
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: of my network and his network. So I met my
• 33:06
  Speaker 4: cinematographer through him, He met his assistant producer through me,
• 33:11
  Speaker 4: so you know, we kind of shifted and traded around people.
• 33:14
  Speaker 4: We both knew until we had this amalgamation of a
• 33:16
  Speaker 4: whole bunch of people. And then kind of going back
• 33:18
  Speaker 4: to what you said about, you know, making a list
• 33:20
  Speaker 4: of assets and things that had access to absolutely because
• 33:23
  Speaker 4: you know, when you're making a micro budget film, you know,
• 33:26
  Speaker 4: you really don't have the luxury of just like pointing
• 33:29
  Speaker 4: to a place on the street and saying we're gonna
• 33:31
  Speaker 4: buy that place out for a day and stick our
• 33:33
  Speaker 4: cameras in there, because that's not how it works when
• 33:36
  Speaker 4: you're doing this. You know, we found these locations weeks
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: and months in advance, and you know said, hey, what
• 33:43
  Speaker 4: is the time when you know you're either doing little
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: to no business or your clothes. So that way we
• 33:47
  Speaker 4: don't have to you know, shut you down and you
• 33:48
  Speaker 4: know take your guys's you know cash full out for
• 33:51
  Speaker 4: a couple hours or whatever, you know, and make it
• 33:53
  Speaker 4: as easy for you guys as possible. And you'd be
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: surprised if you kind of phrase it that way what
• 33:59
  Speaker 4: a lot of people will be willing to do.
• 34:02
  Speaker 5: You know, we kind of explain to them we will
• 34:04
  Speaker 5: promote this film heavily. Your you know, stuff will be.
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: Seen, but you know, I think more than that, like
• 34:09
  Speaker 4: that's kind of promises that you know, people have heard before.
• 34:12
  Speaker 4: I think if you're just transparent and honest and you
• 34:15
  Speaker 4: just say, look, we don't want to.
• 34:16
  Speaker 5: Cost you money.
• 34:17
  Speaker 4: Because like, if you're a bar owner, right so we
• 34:20
  Speaker 4: filmed in several bars.
• 34:21
  Speaker 5: If you're a bar owner and.
• 34:22
  Speaker 4: I and Evan kid just randomly shoots you an email
• 34:24
  Speaker 4: you don't know me from Adam. You know, you open
• 34:27
  Speaker 4: your email and you just see, hey, we have this
• 34:29
  Speaker 4: in you feel wonderful, wonderful, wonderful list film your peace please,
• 34:31
  Speaker 4: blah blah blah. You're gonna be like, Okay, so, uh
• 34:35
  Speaker 4: is this going to cost me money?
• 34:36
  Speaker 5: Am I gonna be out?
• 34:37
  Speaker 4: And you just have to make it speak their language. Essentially,
• 34:40
  Speaker 4: they don't care that you're making this personal film and
• 34:42
  Speaker 4: blah blah blah. All they care about is Okay, I
• 34:44
  Speaker 4: want to help you out. Uh, but you know, let's
• 34:47
  Speaker 4: not cost me a lot of money. So that that's
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: kind of the situation we framed with them.
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: So the reason I was able to to sort of
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: gauge out Evan is because you know, I've done this myself,
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: and lately I've been sort of that's been my you know,
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: for podcast listeners. They know that for every time I
• 35:04
  Speaker 3: introduce a show. Now, I've been talking about this, you know,
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: you know, making you know, how do you make a film?
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: You know, how do you make a film with what
• 35:11
  Speaker 3: you have access to? Right now? And you know, some
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: people call it the Rodrigaz list. You know, I actually
• 35:16
  Speaker 3: had Robert Riguez as a producer on here, and we
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: and even and I were talking about that because he's like, yeah, Dave,
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: you pretty much got it. That's exactly what he what
• 35:24
  Speaker 3: he did, and so you know, you know, if you
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: have access, you know, let's just say, for instance, I
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: had friends of mine. They had access to an old
• 35:31
  Speaker 3: abandoned meat packing plant and they had the key and
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: they were able to film there. And you know, that's
• 35:37
  Speaker 3: if that became a location. You know, Okay, we're going
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: to set the entire film in this abandoned meat packing plant.
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: Well what happens in there? Well, obviously it's a horror
• 35:44
  Speaker 3: film because you're not going to set a comedy in there.
• 35:47
  Speaker 3: So so it's now you know, it's a slasher film, okay,
• 35:50
  Speaker 3: And they're stuck in there all right, and you know,
• 35:52
  Speaker 3: one thing leads to another and they sort of, you know,
• 35:54
  Speaker 3: go from there, and you know that that's sort of
• 35:58
  Speaker 3: how they built the script, you know, and I think
• 35:59
  Speaker 3: that's how And I just also noticed this too, Evan.
• 36:03
  Speaker 3: I think this is sort of becoming the calling cards
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: slash hallmark of our time, where this is this is
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: a sort of definition of talent. Can a person or
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: filmmaker make a film in one location.
• 36:17
  Speaker 5: And keep it interesting? You know what I mean?
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: Can a person you know make a movie with you know,
• 36:22
  Speaker 3: the Rodriguez list to keep it interesting? And I sort
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: of think this is a you know, sort of the
• 36:28
  Speaker 3: benchmark now where we're serious filmmakers and people who just
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: sit around and say, hey, listen, I have an idea
• 36:33
  Speaker 3: for a film. You know, I don't know what to do,
• 36:36
  Speaker 3: and I'm just gonna wait until somebody gives me ten
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: million dollars exactly.
• 36:41
  Speaker 4: You mentioned Rodriguez, I mean him and link Later and
• 36:44
  Speaker 4: filmmakers like that. I mean, that's who I kind of idolize,
• 36:48
  Speaker 4: and you know, watched growing up in high school and
• 36:50
  Speaker 4: going through film school, and you know, those are kind
• 36:53
  Speaker 4: of the mindsets I like to kind of, you know,
• 36:56
  Speaker 4: put myself in if possible, because you know, I mean,
• 37:00
  Speaker 4: working with a million producers and investors in Hollywood's money
• 37:04
  Speaker 4: and you know, or some you know, rich guy's money
• 37:06
  Speaker 4: or whatever. I mean, that would be fantastic.
• 37:08
  Speaker 5: I'm not gonna lie.
• 37:10
  Speaker 4: But you know, at the same time, I think resource
• 37:12
  Speaker 4: based filmmaking will get you a story that you're not
• 37:14
  Speaker 4: going to get if you make you know, a film
• 37:16
  Speaker 4: that way, if you kind of do it quote unquote
• 37:18
  Speaker 4: by the book. I think in resource based filmmaking, like
• 37:22
  Speaker 4: you said, you know, there's people who will set films
• 37:25
  Speaker 4: in there, you know, meatpacking, abandoned warehouse or you know,
• 37:28
  Speaker 4: like a lot of the mumble course stuff from ten
• 37:30
  Speaker 4: years ago, New York apartment pretty much.
• 37:33
  Speaker 5: The whole time.
• 37:34
  Speaker 4: And you know, I think a lot of people poke
• 37:36
  Speaker 4: fund at that, or you know, kind of look at
• 37:38
  Speaker 4: it in a different way. But I mean, I actually
• 37:40
  Speaker 4: think there's a lot of strength to being a good
• 37:43
  Speaker 4: enough filmmaker to set something in one location like you said,
• 37:46
  Speaker 4: and keep it interesting.
• 37:47
  Speaker 5: I think that might make you more.
• 37:49
  Speaker 4: Talented than if you you know, have a film that
• 37:52
  Speaker 4: puts you in an outer space going through a different
• 37:53
  Speaker 4: planet every ten minutes or whatever. You know, nothing wrong
• 37:57
  Speaker 4: with that, but I just think that's more interesting to me.
• 38:00
  Speaker 5: And you know, a lot of times.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: Filmmaking is like solving a puzzle. So you know, for me,
• 38:04
  Speaker 4: I like that, I like that challenge, and I mean
• 38:07
  Speaker 4: for Son of Clowns, we probably made it harder on
• 38:10
  Speaker 4: ourselves than we needed to, just because we did have
• 38:13
  Speaker 4: so many locations and a lot of times your characters
• 38:15
  Speaker 4: would drove around throughout the Triangle in North Carolina, that's
• 38:18
  Speaker 4: the region.
• 38:19
  Speaker 5: Of the film is set.
• 38:20
  Speaker 4: And you know, we probably didn't need to make it
• 38:22
  Speaker 4: is in depth as we did, but we kind of
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: wanted the film to have a slice of Raleigh, North Carolina,
• 38:27
  Speaker 4: So we kind of wanted to incorporate a lot of
• 38:29
  Speaker 4: different locations to give you know, people who knew the
• 38:31
  Speaker 4: area a little taste of it. And so, you know,
• 38:34
  Speaker 4: if we were to do it a different way, like
• 38:36
  Speaker 4: you know, I'm writing a new feature right now, and
• 38:38
  Speaker 4: it's a little bit more of a psychological film, a
• 38:41
  Speaker 4: little bit more introspective, a little darker, and I think,
• 38:44
  Speaker 4: you know, that film is probably going to be a
• 38:46
  Speaker 4: little bit more similar to that where you know, there
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: will be not as many locations, so it's going to
• 38:51
  Speaker 4: rely a lot on you know, character development, not that
• 38:54
  Speaker 4: Son of Clowns doesn't there's a lot of character development,
• 38:56
  Speaker 4: but you know, I think just in terms of getting
• 38:58
  Speaker 4: a new location to kind of refresh your you know,
• 39:01
  Speaker 4: the ad of the audience, so to speak. You know,
• 39:03
  Speaker 4: you may not get that, So I think that is
• 39:06
  Speaker 4: interesting definitely, and kind of being able to tell that
• 39:08
  Speaker 4: and convey that in a compelling ways, you know, a
• 39:10
  Speaker 4: mark of strength.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And also, you know, this is something I've talked
• 39:15
  Speaker 3: about before, which is if you were to live let's
• 39:18
  Speaker 3: just say, you know, I live in Philadelphia, You're in
• 39:21
  Speaker 3: in North Carolina crush, Yeah, by.
• 39:23
  Speaker 4: Way of Louisiana at the moment. I'm working on a project,
• 39:25
  Speaker 4: but yeah.
• 39:26
  Speaker 3: So you know where we live. People sort of aren't
• 39:30
  Speaker 3: burned out yet from from being asked. You know, if
• 39:32
  Speaker 3: you go to LA and say, hey, listen, I can
• 39:33
  Speaker 3: I shoot here, They're gonna say, look, look, buddy, we would.
• 39:36
  Speaker 3: You're the third person today who's asked us about about that,
• 39:39
  Speaker 3: and the answer is going to be nice.
• 39:40
  Speaker 5: Yeah, oh sure.
• 39:41
  Speaker 4: I mean I was in Los Angeles last month for
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: a film festival for Son of Clowns, and it was
• 39:46
  Speaker 4: kind of I've been there before briefly during a layover,
• 39:49
  Speaker 4: but you know, I was there for three days this time,
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: and kind of got my feet wet, so to speak.
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: In LA And you know, I was talking to some
• 39:55
  Speaker 4: folks at the festival and they were just telling me
• 39:57
  Speaker 4: all the same things. And they were like, the locals.
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor,
• 40:07
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: And they were just saying, you know, independent film is
• 40:12
  Speaker 4: super tricky if you live in Los Angeles, like they
• 40:15
  Speaker 4: were saying, it's almost harder over there, just because you know,
• 40:19
  Speaker 4: people know, and it's such a part of the culture,
• 40:22
  Speaker 4: and you know, Hollywood is king over there, so you
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: have a little bit of resistance. I mean, you could
• 40:27
  Speaker 4: obviously shoot something in your backyard or your apartment or whatever.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: But like if you're, like you said, trying to get
• 40:31
  Speaker 4: into bars and stuff, you know, you may as well
• 40:34
  Speaker 4: forget it unless you've got a lot of money.
• 40:37
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, It's just it's you know, even a
• 40:41
  Speaker 3: friend of mine who actually found a little independent spot,
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: every time he shot there, they would raise the fee up.
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: You know, they kept raising the fee up a little
• 40:49
  Speaker 3: bit more, a little bit more, and finally he by
• 40:52
  Speaker 3: like the fifth or sixth time, he said, my god,
• 40:53
  Speaker 3: it's caused you know, it's now it's like a little
• 40:56
  Speaker 3: this little coffee shop. They charge us like I think
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: two hudred bucks. Now he's like, they're charging us over
• 41:01
  Speaker 3: one thousand dollars, and he said, you know, it just
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: doesn't make any fiscal sense anymore. Yeah, I know.
• 41:06
  Speaker 4: I mean if if we were to film Son of
• 41:07
  Speaker 4: Clowns in that coffee shop for two days, we would
• 41:10
  Speaker 4: have gone over our whole budget for the film, Like
• 41:12
  Speaker 4: you know, I mean, like that's.
• 41:14
  Speaker 5: The short of it.
• 41:15
  Speaker 4: But you know, I definitely think if you want to
• 41:18
  Speaker 4: be an independent filmmaker, I would advise anyone to find
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: a city that's big enough to have crew base and.
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: You know, film schools around it.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: So you know, maybe not the middle of Idaho, although
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: you could maybe challenge yourself to do something out there.
• 41:32
  Speaker 4: I don't know, but if you find one of these
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: kind of regional, big cities, I think you can really
• 41:36
  Speaker 4: set yourself up for success. Because I had a lot
• 41:39
  Speaker 4: of friends who, after ECU and film school moved to
• 41:44
  Speaker 4: Los Angeles, and like, several of them are doing pretty
• 41:46
  Speaker 4: good for themselves, but like a couple others are really struggling,
• 41:49
  Speaker 4: and you know, it's a hard I mean, everyone knows
• 41:52
  Speaker 4: it's hard out there, but you know, a lot of
• 41:56
  Speaker 4: them have not made their own work.
• 41:57
  Speaker 5: Since film school.
• 41:58
  Speaker 4: And I think that's just kind of hard because once
• 42:00
  Speaker 4: you're in that system, you kind of need to you know,
• 42:03
  Speaker 4: be a cog. You know, not as an insult, I'm
• 42:05
  Speaker 4: not saying this, but you kind of have to do
• 42:07
  Speaker 4: that first before you're allowed permission. And I think anywhere else,
• 42:11
  Speaker 4: you you know, that's there, but you kind of get
• 42:14
  Speaker 4: a little more leeway to say, okay, wait, back up.
• 42:16
  Speaker 5: I want to make my own story. How do we
• 42:18
  Speaker 5: do this?
• 42:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, and I've heard that same, you know,
• 42:22
  Speaker 3: the same type of experience too, is you know some
• 42:26
  Speaker 3: people do you know kind of well out there. A
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: friend of mine ended up, you know, crewing on different stuff.
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: Then he went to Louisiana now where he you know,
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: he's working on Crewe a project. You know, he's working
• 42:35
  Speaker 3: on tons of projects and crew and other friends. You know,
• 42:38
  Speaker 3: I had one friend who went out there. He had
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: contacts out the ass and you know what happened, Evan,
• 42:44
  Speaker 3: he felt very lonely and isolated out there, and he said, basically,
• 42:48
  Speaker 3: you know, everyone's always busy and one's always working, and
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: he just felt, you know, basically his only people he
• 42:54
  Speaker 3: could talk to with the people at like a Chinese
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: restaurant or whatever, and you know, because he would order
• 42:58
  Speaker 3: from them every day. He'd go down there and they
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: would know who he was and he'd say, oh, yeah,
• 43:02
  Speaker 3: it's me, you know, and you know, he just he
• 43:05
  Speaker 3: hated it and he ended up moving back. And funny
• 43:09
  Speaker 3: little story, Evan, he still hasn't made a movie himself.
• 43:11
  Speaker 3: And you know, we always he and I talked before
• 43:14
  Speaker 3: about you know, I said, what you know because he
• 43:16
  Speaker 3: asked me, He's like, Dave, seriously, we went out to
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: dinner and he said, Dave, what is holding me back?
• 43:20
  Speaker 3: And I said, your fear of failure is holding you
• 43:23
  Speaker 3: back because if you if you think that you make
• 43:26
  Speaker 3: this movie and it sucks, it's going to mean you
• 43:28
  Speaker 3: have no talent and it's going to be indicative of
• 43:30
  Speaker 3: everything that you've spent your whole life doing. Yeah, and
• 43:33
  Speaker 3: that's what's stopping you.
• 43:34
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, fear is uh.
• 43:37
  Speaker 4: You know, there's a book I've read, I think Robert
• 43:40
  Speaker 4: Riguez mentioned in an interview a whole bunch of years back,
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: and it's called the Art of Fear, and it's a
• 43:45
  Speaker 4: book that basically categorizes every doubt, every little inkling of
• 43:50
  Speaker 4: you know, why we shouldn't do an artistic endeavor into
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: a category and kind of lets you filter through it
• 43:56
  Speaker 4: so you can catch those thoughts before they come. It's
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: a great read, like eight bucks on Amazon. I would
• 44:01
  Speaker 4: totally recommend it, But you know, I would say it's
• 44:06
  Speaker 4: not just that book, because I mean I made these
• 44:09
  Speaker 4: this film before I read that book. But I mean
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: I think it's just a mindset and you know, I
• 44:15
  Speaker 4: hate just the little Nike just do it. But I
• 44:19
  Speaker 4: mean it's so true, like there's no one way that
• 44:24
  Speaker 4: you're gonna be successful. There's no one way that you're
• 44:26
  Speaker 4: gonna make this, you know, feature short or whatever. But
• 44:29
  Speaker 4: you know, if you try, you can at least think try,
• 44:32
  Speaker 4: because I mean, isn't that the worst thing to go
• 44:34
  Speaker 4: to bed at the end of the day and kind
• 44:36
  Speaker 4: of all over in your head. Man, I still haven't
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: taken the jump. I mean, because at the very least,
• 44:40
  Speaker 4: if you take the jump and it's a horrible failure,
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: I mean, who who's really gonna care? Like, I mean,
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: maybe a few of your friends will be like, yeah,
• 44:46
  Speaker 4: he tried to make a movie, But like, I guarantee
• 44:49
  Speaker 4: you a few of your friends have much bigger problems
• 44:51
  Speaker 4: than you know, trivializing over your movie. So you know,
• 44:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, at the end of the day, it's really
• 44:56
  Speaker 4: you that has to deal with it. So you know,
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: if you can kind of make peace in your own mind,
• 45:00
  Speaker 4: that's the key.
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: Yeah. There's also a great book called The War of
• 45:03
  Speaker 3: Art by Steven Pressfield.
• 45:05
  Speaker 5: Oh I've got that one. Yeah, yeah, it is.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: You know what. I read that book and I very
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: rarely ever just put down a book you know that
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: that's not fiction and uh and and say, holy crap,
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: I got to read that again right now. Literally, I
• 45:20
  Speaker 3: sat down to read it at a Barnes and Nobles.
• 45:22
  Speaker 3: I read the whole thing and I still I was like,
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: you know what, I'm gonna go buy this. I have
• 45:25
  Speaker 3: to buy it. I mean, this is like my my,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: my new go to thing, and everything he talks about,
• 45:30
  Speaker 3: I was like, that's me. This is you know, you know,
• 45:33
  Speaker 3: you sit down to write and all and in one
• 45:36
  Speaker 3: ear you're hearing you know, sort of like you know,
• 45:38
  Speaker 3: your your your your muse, and then the other year
• 45:42
  Speaker 3: is resistance, you know, whisper, you know, whispering in your ear. Oh,
• 45:45
  Speaker 3: you have no talent. Don't do this, it's stupid, You're awful.
• 45:48
  Speaker 3: Just forget about this and go be you know, go
• 45:51
  Speaker 3: sell you know, uh snow cones down the beach. And
• 45:54
  Speaker 3: you're like, well, you know what, I guess I should
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: and you and you know what I mean, And I've
• 45:57
  Speaker 3: I've been there, you know where you're like, you know what,
• 45:59
  Speaker 3: I should just go out forget all this stuff and
• 46:02
  Speaker 3: just go get a job, you know, doing whatever instead.
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: Yeah. No, absolutely, I mean we've all dealt with.
• 46:09
  Speaker 4: That kind of depression and that kind of wrestling within
• 46:12
  Speaker 4: your mind, you know, as you're an artistic person. I
• 46:16
  Speaker 4: mean I can only speak to my own experiences, but
• 46:18
  Speaker 4: I mean I know that to me is a lot
• 46:21
  Speaker 4: worse than the fear of failure. I mean, the depression
• 46:24
  Speaker 4: and the kind of you know, funk you get yourself
• 46:26
  Speaker 4: into when you're not working. I mean that freaks me
• 46:29
  Speaker 4: out a lot more than just making a film and
• 46:30
  Speaker 4: it's like, oh no, some people didn't like it. That
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: that's a lot more frightening. So I mean, for me,
• 46:36
  Speaker 4: it's never been really about failure. It's it's been I
• 46:38
  Speaker 4: just don't like those kind of periods where I'm not
• 46:40
  Speaker 4: doing something because I feel like, Okay, what's wrong. There
• 46:43
  Speaker 4: has to be a reason, you know, maybe it's outside
• 46:45
  Speaker 4: of filmmaking, blah blah blah. But you know, I think
• 46:49
  Speaker 4: keeping yourself busy and keeping yourself sane is the best
• 46:52
  Speaker 4: way to do it, because I mean, you can get
• 46:54
  Speaker 4: caught up in your head too easily. I mean, especially
• 46:56
  Speaker 4: these days. I mean, you know a lot of times,
• 46:58
  Speaker 4: like we spend so much time just staring at devices
• 47:02
  Speaker 4: and you know, like kind of not actually engaging with
• 47:04
  Speaker 4: the world around us, So you kind of end up
• 47:06
  Speaker 4: in your head a lot more than you may otherwise.
• 47:08
  Speaker 4: And uh, you know, I think it's the best way
• 47:10
  Speaker 4: to filter through that is to make work, you.
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: Know, yes, yeah, And I think that's where a lot
• 47:16
  Speaker 3: of frustration for some people comes in, is that they
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: can't either they don't want to write because they think
• 47:20
  Speaker 3: that if it's bad, it's indicative of them, even if
• 47:23
  Speaker 3: they write a script, you know, and it's and it's terrible.
• 47:25
  Speaker 3: You know. I've had to learn a very hard lesson
• 47:29
  Speaker 3: and I've had to learn this over and over again,
• 47:30
  Speaker 3: and that is to stop trying to get perfectionism on
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: the first draft. I don't I I it's like this
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: weird thing with me, Evan, Like I will outline like you.
• 47:40
  Speaker 3: I mean, I will outline pages and pages and pages,
• 47:43
  Speaker 3: and then I'm like, oh, you know what, maybe let
• 47:45
  Speaker 3: me let me do something different, and I'm just like,
• 47:47
  Speaker 3: it's almost like you're you're you're going in that hamster
• 47:49
  Speaker 3: wheel because you're always taking that first draft and then
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: you know, and then you you say, hey, no, I'm
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: gonna start draft one one dash B and then it's
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: one draft C and then you know what I mean,
• 47:58
  Speaker 3: and then you're you're still in that first instead of
• 48:00
  Speaker 3: just getting something done and then trying to go back
• 48:02
  Speaker 3: and trying to figure out what worked what didn't work,
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: you know. And I think that's a lot of what
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: holds people back.
• 48:09
  Speaker 4: Oh absolutely, I mean I would say I just wrote
• 48:12
  Speaker 4: a pilot script and it's a series that I'm gonna
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: attempt to work on here in Louisiana. And the guy
• 48:19
  Speaker 4: I'm working on it with, you know, we basically just said, like,
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: let's get the vomit draft out because we basically want
• 48:25
  Speaker 4: to shoot this pilot on our own and have a
• 48:28
  Speaker 4: you know, solid, you know, cut pilot. Everything like that
• 48:31
  Speaker 4: nice and done to present to some investors to hopefully
• 48:33
  Speaker 4: get funding for the Best to season.
• 48:35
  Speaker 5: And you know, for me, I was so worried about that.
• 48:37
  Speaker 4: So I'm like, man, there's a lot of people, there's eyes,
• 48:39
  Speaker 4: there's people who are going to try to impress.
• 48:41
  Speaker 5: It's got to be perfect. It's got to be perfect.
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: And I'm just like, I'm only in stage one of
• 48:45
  Speaker 4: the draft. I haven't even finished into edits yet, and
• 48:48
  Speaker 4: we haven't even shot the film.
• 48:49
  Speaker 5: We haven't even cut the film.
• 48:51
  Speaker 4: So there's a lot more filters we're going to go
• 48:53
  Speaker 4: through before this thing seen by anyone.
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: So like, I think that's the thing.
• 48:57
  Speaker 4: Everyone's thinking way too far ahead, and like I think
• 49:01
  Speaker 4: everyone just needs to kind of chill out a little bit.
• 49:04
  Speaker 4: And I know that sounds counterproductive and I need to
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: take my own advice sometimes, but you know, I think
• 49:10
  Speaker 4: if you really get a little bit more relaxed with it,
• 49:13
  Speaker 4: at least on your first draft. I'm not saying like,
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: don't work hard and don't outline it, don't do this,
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: because that's all very critical. I mean, pre production is
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: the key to being successful. But I think a lot
• 49:23
  Speaker 4: of times, not trying to be so hard on yourself
• 49:25
  Speaker 4: with that first draft, because if you're so hard on
• 49:26
  Speaker 4: yourself making that first draft that you never actually write it,
• 49:31
  Speaker 4: it doesn't even matter, you know.
• 49:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, I agree with you completely, man. And it
• 49:38
  Speaker 3: is getting that vomit draft out there. It is getting
• 49:40
  Speaker 3: something on the page, because that's the thing. You get
• 49:43
  Speaker 3: stuck in your own head and you never sort of
• 49:45
  Speaker 3: stop thinking in terms of what if or It's what
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: somebody once told me is called this decision fatigue, you
• 49:52
  Speaker 3: know what I mean, where you sort of you make
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: so many decisions and you know that's taking off your energy,
• 49:57
  Speaker 3: you know what I mean. You're like, well, what if
• 49:58
  Speaker 3: this happens.
• 50:00
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 50:06
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 50:09
  Speaker 3: No, no, no, what if this happens? And this happens,
• 50:11
  Speaker 3: then you're sort of just caught in your own head
• 50:13
  Speaker 3: of all these different options.
• 50:15
  Speaker 4: Decisiveness is really underrated these days, man. And it's hard
• 50:21
  Speaker 4: to be decisive, I think, because there are so many options.
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: I mean, like with film and not you know, and
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: just in life. I mean, there are so many options
• 50:30
  Speaker 4: with pretty much everything we do nowadays. Do you want
• 50:32
  Speaker 4: to shoot it on the sixty? You do want to
• 50:33
  Speaker 4: shoot it on see you one hundred mark too, don't
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: want to shoot it on the elex. I mean, like
• 50:37
  Speaker 4: so many options, But the end of the day, it's
• 50:38
  Speaker 4: just a damn camera if that's what you're worried about,
• 50:41
  Speaker 4: or you know, am I going to cast this person
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: to that person? If it's a micro budget. Well, at
• 50:44
  Speaker 4: the end of the day, your actors are pretty much
• 50:47
  Speaker 4: just a vessel that you're telling your story through. You're
• 50:49
  Speaker 4: not dealing with like Brad Paid or anyone you know,
• 50:52
  Speaker 4: outrageously famous.
• 50:53
  Speaker 5: So just make your stuff.
• 50:55
  Speaker 4: I mean, like, at the end of the day, like
• 50:56
  Speaker 4: all these little decisions, they are important, but I think
• 50:59
  Speaker 4: we as filmmakers really to kind of trivialize them and
• 51:02
  Speaker 4: kind of really make them way more blown up than
• 51:05
  Speaker 4: they have any business being. So, I mean, I think
• 51:07
  Speaker 4: a lot of times just committing to something, and again.
• 51:10
  Speaker 5: I mean I'm guilty of it too.
• 51:11
  Speaker 4: It's hard to be decisive sometimes, but I think just saying, Okay,
• 51:14
  Speaker 4: I'm writing ten pages today, or I'm writing from two
• 51:18
  Speaker 4: o'clock to three o'clock, not looking at my phone. I'm
• 51:21
  Speaker 4: not gonna check Twitter, blah blah blah. I'm just gonna,
• 51:22
  Speaker 4: you know, turn off the Internet and just write. I mean,
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: like that's really underrated and that's and it's difficult, but
• 51:28
  Speaker 4: you know, I think doing that and getting in a
• 51:30
  Speaker 4: habit of kind of reprogramming your brain is really helpful
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: to getting work done.
• 51:38
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, getting that, you know, just turning off all
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: those distractions. And I think that is a thing too, man.
• 51:43
  Speaker 3: You know, is that the cell phone is like this
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: sort of the double edged sword. You can do so
• 51:48
  Speaker 3: much with it, but there's also so many things vying
• 51:50
  Speaker 3: for your attention. And what I what I find is
• 51:53
  Speaker 3: when I'm gonna write, I take the cell phone away
• 51:55
  Speaker 3: and I just see in front of my computer. I
• 51:57
  Speaker 3: can turn off the Internet through a number of different
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: add ons and you know what I mean, and you
• 52:01
  Speaker 3: just and I just work inside something like open office,
• 52:04
  Speaker 3: which is free because it's open sourced, or even just
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: notepad or fade in or final Drift and just that said,
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: make a full screen mode and just write for you know,
• 52:13
  Speaker 3: twenty minutes and get into that habit. Because somebody once
• 52:16
  Speaker 3: told me, oh, I'm gonna butcher this, but I think
• 52:20
  Speaker 3: it's you know, actions become habits, and then habits become
• 52:24
  Speaker 3: what you're known for. Oh yeah, and I maybe I
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: did butcher that I'm not sure, but but that, but
• 52:29
  Speaker 3: that's so true, you know, and you're you're gonna they're
• 52:31
  Speaker 3: gonna say, hey, there's Evan. That's the guy who can
• 52:33
  Speaker 3: write for you know, two or three hours without looking
• 52:36
  Speaker 3: at his phone. He's a freaking superstar, because you know,
• 52:39
  Speaker 3: most people can't go five seconds.
• 52:40
  Speaker 5: I don't know if I'm there yet, but I'm working.
• 52:44
  Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's hard. It's definitely
• 52:47
  Speaker 4: hard to turn off those distractions.
• 52:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it real, it really is. And uh, you know,
• 52:52
  Speaker 3: you know, Evan, you know, we've been talking for about
• 52:54
  Speaker 3: you know, forty eight minutes, and I just want to ask,
• 52:56
  Speaker 3: you know, before uh, you know, would you we start
• 52:58
  Speaker 3: wrapping up. I just want to ask about Son of Clowns.
• 53:01
  Speaker 3: You know, what was one of the biggest production issues
• 53:04
  Speaker 3: that you had. I mean, whether it be a location
• 53:07
  Speaker 3: or maybe you were going to film outside and now
• 53:09
  Speaker 3: thunderstorm rolls in. You know what was one of the
• 53:11
  Speaker 3: biggest production issues you ran in while making Son of Clowns?
• 53:14
  Speaker 5: I mean kind of throwing through just time.
• 53:17
  Speaker 4: I mean, we shot this whole feature in ten days,
• 53:19
  Speaker 4: which was really a brutal schedule. You know, we a
• 53:23
  Speaker 4: lot of times we would just pull ourselves up in
• 53:25
  Speaker 4: a location for three days, you know, do air mattresses,
• 53:28
  Speaker 4: that whole thing, and just get it done. We didn't
• 53:32
  Speaker 4: shoot ten days straight, but we shot ten days over
• 53:35
  Speaker 4: the course of about two weeks, two and a half weeks,
• 53:37
  Speaker 4: so I mean it was you know, three or four
• 53:39
  Speaker 4: days straight, then a day or two off, and then
• 53:41
  Speaker 4: right back at it kind of so on and so forth.
• 53:43
  Speaker 4: But I mean, aside from time, I mean, I think
• 53:46
  Speaker 4: it was just trying to get conditions perfect because a
• 53:48
  Speaker 4: lot of this was I mean, it's a narrative film,
• 53:50
  Speaker 4: but we shot in the real world. There was no
• 53:52
  Speaker 4: sound stages, there was no you know, roping off an.
• 53:55
  Speaker 5: Entire area to make it quiet.
• 53:57
  Speaker 4: I mean a lot of times we'd have like giant
• 53:59
  Speaker 4: trucks trying to through them, filming in a parking lot
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: for a scene, and like this eighteen wheeler was trying
• 54:04
  Speaker 4: to make a delivery and then we had to stop
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: and wait for him. And then by the time he
• 54:09
  Speaker 4: finished unloading his truck, like, the sun was way different.
• 54:12
  Speaker 4: The lighting looked, you know, completely off, and you know,
• 54:15
  Speaker 4: it's just trying to fix those things. And it's really
• 54:17
  Speaker 4: easy in the moment be like, yeah, we'll fix it
• 54:19
  Speaker 4: in post. But it's just like, don't shoot yourself in
• 54:22
  Speaker 4: the foot. But I mean, I actually you mentioned the thunderstorm.
• 54:25
  Speaker 4: A quick little story from set. Uh, there's a scene
• 54:28
  Speaker 4: towards the end of the movie. I won't spoil it,
• 54:30
  Speaker 4: but a Jabbari who's Hudson's brother. Hudson's our main character
• 54:35
  Speaker 4: in the film. Basically they're they're mending kind of a
• 54:39
  Speaker 4: soured relationship between the two of them. Something's gone wrong
• 54:42
  Speaker 4: in a very big way. And basically they're doing this
• 54:45
  Speaker 4: scene where you know, they're trying to make amends or
• 54:48
  Speaker 4: Hudson's trying to make amends and you know Jabbari's having
• 54:51
  Speaker 4: none of it. And it's really this dramatic, tense moment,
• 54:54
  Speaker 4: Like I mean, they were both doing so good you
• 54:56
  Speaker 4: could cut the tension with you know, a pair of scissors,
• 54:59
  Speaker 4: but at a no know where you just hear this
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: giant thundercloud and they stating character and just kept going
• 55:04
  Speaker 4: and that slowly started raining a little bit, and then
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: the light was all weird and wonky, but you know,
• 55:09
  Speaker 4: we kept rowling and that's the take we used. And
• 55:12
  Speaker 4: so a lot of times when people watch the film,
• 55:13
  Speaker 4: there's this like thunder in the background while they're having
• 55:15
  Speaker 4: this argument, and a lot of people are like, did
• 55:17
  Speaker 4: you add that.
• 55:18
  Speaker 5: I'm like, no, no, no, that's just from like the real world.
• 55:22
  Speaker 4: So I mean it's like it fit really well, I thought,
• 55:25
  Speaker 4: and like it didn't come off as like corny or
• 55:28
  Speaker 4: weird because I mean, it didn't sound like an effect.
• 55:30
  Speaker 5: I mean it was just off in the distance and
• 55:32
  Speaker 5: you could see it, so it was really cool.
• 55:35
  Speaker 4: And you know, it's just one of the situations where
• 55:37
  Speaker 4: you know, we wouldn't have got that from a sound stage.
• 55:39
  Speaker 4: We wouldn't have got that from you know, a whole
• 55:41
  Speaker 4: bunch of like polished you know, clean sets or anything.
• 55:44
  Speaker 5: You know, it's just shooting in the real world. That's
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: what happens.
• 55:46
  Speaker 4: So I mean, I think you do get happy accidents
• 55:49
  Speaker 4: like that, but then at the same time you get
• 55:50
  Speaker 4: the guy unloading the eighteen wheeler, so that's a double
• 55:53
  Speaker 4: edged sword. So I think it's just a matter of
• 55:55
  Speaker 4: like time and getting those locations, you know, to work
• 55:58
  Speaker 4: for you instead of working for your location.
• 56:01
  Speaker 3: So yeah, you know, it's amazing when you're out there
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: actually filming all the things that can happen and you know,
• 56:08
  Speaker 3: sort of the some things could come together very well,
• 56:11
  Speaker 3: and then some things like the used to the truck,
• 56:13
  Speaker 3: the guy and learning the truck and can sort of
• 56:15
  Speaker 3: put a damper on things. And you know, uh, you know,
• 56:19
  Speaker 3: just some of the things that I found in hearing
• 56:22
  Speaker 3: stories about filmmaking and you know, by own personal experiences.
• 56:26
  Speaker 3: You know, sometimes you just you just never know. I mean,
• 56:28
  Speaker 3: were for instance, I was going to film in uh
• 56:31
  Speaker 3: for three days out in this in this park, and
• 56:34
  Speaker 3: I looked at the weather forecast. They said it was
• 56:35
  Speaker 3: going to be beautiful all three days. Evan, it stormed
• 56:39
  Speaker 3: like crazy, and we were gonna use zombies and we
• 56:41
  Speaker 3: couldn't put them out there because the zombie makeup was
• 56:43
  Speaker 3: gonna run. So we ended up having to sort of
• 56:47
  Speaker 3: do everything inside and they looked completely different than what
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: we wanted. It was just, you know, we we improvised
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: as best we could. But it's always like dann it,
• 56:54
  Speaker 3: if only we could have done more outside.
• 56:56
  Speaker 4: It's you know, yeah, I mean, filmmaking is just a
• 56:58
  Speaker 4: big game of improvation and trying to stay two steps
• 57:01
  Speaker 4: ahead of the real world.
• 57:02
  Speaker 5: And I mean like as.
• 57:03
  Speaker 4: Filmmakers, we have an unhealthy habit of thinking the world's
• 57:07
  Speaker 4: gonna stop for us while we're on set. But you
• 57:09
  Speaker 4: know the world doesn't care. That guy, you know, unloading
• 57:12
  Speaker 4: his truck. He's just you know, doing his job, like
• 57:14
  Speaker 4: he doesn't.
• 57:15
  Speaker 5: Care that we're making a film.
• 57:16
  Speaker 4: I mean, you know, So it's like that's what you
• 57:18
  Speaker 4: deal with. You know, it's gonna rain or it's gonna
• 57:20
  Speaker 4: do this or that, and it's just a matter of
• 57:22
  Speaker 4: being flexible. I mean, I think like being kind of
• 57:25
  Speaker 4: zen about everything and really trying to you know, I guess,
• 57:29
  Speaker 4: be a little bit hippie with it and just try
• 57:31
  Speaker 4: not to let every little thing bother you and.
• 57:34
  Speaker 5: Just kind of be a piece.
• 57:35
  Speaker 4: I mean that's the key, because I mean, if you're
• 57:37
  Speaker 4: you have to be type A, I think to make
• 57:39
  Speaker 4: productions work. But I think if you can kind of
• 57:42
  Speaker 4: take a little bit of a type B mindset when
• 57:44
  Speaker 4: something goes wrong, you're gonna save yourself a couple of
• 57:46
  Speaker 4: great hairs.
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely. I think also meditation helps with that. Yeah,
• 57:52
  Speaker 3: just learning to learning to roll with this and be like, Okay,
• 57:55
  Speaker 3: you know what, we'll figure this out. I'm gonna become
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: very David Lynching about this. I'm gonna you know try.
• 58:00
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's that's how I try to be.
• 58:02
  Speaker 4: I mean, like Werner Herzog, he talks a lot about,
• 58:05
  Speaker 4: you know, just shooting gorilla and like just the stuff
• 58:08
  Speaker 4: that could go wrong and how you kind of incorporate
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: that into your film and how that's actually part of
• 58:13
  Speaker 4: your esthetic. And like, I mean, I absolutely buy that,
• 58:16
  Speaker 4: because I mean a lot of our film was just gorilla.
• 58:18
  Speaker 4: I mean it was just out there and you know,
• 58:20
  Speaker 4: it was wild, and so you know, you deal with
• 58:23
  Speaker 4: the situations that come by just sticking a camera in
• 58:27
  Speaker 4: the real world, and I think it gives your film
• 58:29
  Speaker 4: a little bit of authenticity. I think that's actually really exciting,
• 58:32
  Speaker 4: but I think at the same time it's also challenging.
• 58:35
  Speaker 4: But once you capture it's almost like, hey, I got
• 58:37
  Speaker 4: away with something.
• 58:38
  Speaker 5: Hey we did it.
• 58:39
  Speaker 4: We you know, managed to film here, even though that
• 58:42
  Speaker 4: guy unloaded his truck or whatever, and so you kind
• 58:45
  Speaker 4: of walk away with a little bit of a you know,
• 58:48
  Speaker 4: excited edge you may not have got if you just
• 58:50
  Speaker 4: kind of rolled camera in a perfect little situation and everything,
• 58:53
  Speaker 4: you know, just checked off the list.
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah, very very true, very true, Evan. You know, Evan,
• 59:00
  Speaker 3: just in closing, I want to ask where we will
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: check out Son of Clowns.
• 59:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so we are playing two more festivals at the moment.
• 59:07
  Speaker 4: Like I said, we were just at Action on Film
• 59:10
  Speaker 4: in Los Angeles, and we were at Yollywood Film Festival
• 59:13
  Speaker 4: in Atlanta this past weekend. And we've got Queen City
• 59:16
  Speaker 4: Film Festival in Maryland on the sixth, So it may
• 59:19
  Speaker 4: not be.
• 59:20
  Speaker 5: This may not be out by then, but then we
• 59:21
  Speaker 5: have a.
• 59:22
  Speaker 4: Cucka Laws Film Festival back home in North Carolina, and
• 59:24
  Speaker 4: I am super excited for that film festival. That's one
• 59:28
  Speaker 4: I've loved personally for a while, and so it's going
• 59:30
  Speaker 4: to be a great homecoming for the film. And actually
• 59:32
  Speaker 4: the day after Cuckle Orus ends, this film, November fifteenth,
• 59:36
  Speaker 4: is going to be streaming for Amazon Prime and Amazon
• 59:40
  Speaker 4: Video on Demand. So November fifteenth is the day I
• 59:42
  Speaker 4: think most people should remember because you'll be able to
• 59:44
  Speaker 4: check out Son of Clowns in full and streaming on Amazon.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: And I will also link to all that in the
• 59:50
  Speaker 3: show notes everybody, and just in case in case they
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: didn't get that. But again it's at Davilis dot com,
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: Evan where we'll find you out online.
• 59:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I do Twitter, probably the so if you do Twitter,
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 4: Twitter dot com.
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 2: We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 2: and now back to the show.
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 4: My thing is at mister Evan Kid. My work's also
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 4: online Rockset Productions dot com. That's where I keep everything.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 4: And then obviously if you want to know more about
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 4: a son of Clowns in particular set Off Clowns dot
• 1:00:24
  Speaker 4: COM's got everything you need to know.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 3: And again everyone I'll looked at in the show notes.
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 3: And you know, as you know, Evan knows, I'm also
• 1:00:33
  Speaker 3: most active on Twitter, and that's sort of where I
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: you know, I meet a lot of people. Twitter has
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 3: been an excellent, excellent networking tool for me. Yeah, I've
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 3: been able to meet so many awesome people through there.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 4: Definitely, Yeah, I love Twitter. Twitter has put me in
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 4: touch actually with a lot of people who I've.
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 5: Ended up meeting in the real world.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 4: Like I stayed with my friend Blaize who has a
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 4: podcast called Us First Film, and we just met through Twitter,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 4: and he was gracious enough to put me up while
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 4: I was in Los Angeles and you really kind of
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 4: show me around and do stuff like that. So you know,
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 4: Twitter is definitely a wonderful network to meet people and
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 4: kind of foster those filmmaking connections.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's like you know, I always say,
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 3: you know, social media is a tool and it depends
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: how you want to wheeld that tool. And Twitter is
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: one that I have. I have met so many people
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: in there, Evan. You know, I I would say you
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 3: and I met on there, but you actually you and
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: I meant through.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 5: Email, but I saw you on Twitter. That's probably think.
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: So there you go. All right, the Twitter. Twitter is
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 3: the you know, it's an actual source of all that. Evan.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: I want to say, thank you so much for coming on.
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: This has been a blast of a conversation, dude, and
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: you know, I wish you the best with Son of Clowns.
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 3: And you know, if you ever want to come back
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: talk about you know, whatever else you're up to, about
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 3: the TV pole you talked about or whatever else, please,
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: you know, there was always open.
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah, thanks Dave. I appreciate it.
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 3: Oh my pleasure, Evan kid. I want to say thanks
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 3: again and I wish the best of luck.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 4: Man.
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 5: Thanks man, appreciate it.
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 3: Anytime, Take care, buddy.
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 4: Thanks.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 3: I want to thank Dave so much for doing such
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 3: a great job. On this episode.
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: If you want to get links to anything we spoke
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 2: about it in this episode, head over to the show
• 1:02:02
  Speaker 2: notes at Indie film huscle dot com Forward slash eight thirteen.
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: If you have it already, please head over to filmmaking
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 2: podcast dot com. Subscribe and leave a good review for
• 1:02:12
  Speaker 2: the show. It really helps us out a lot, guys.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 3: Thank you again so much for listening.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Guys, As always, keep that hustle going, keep that dream alive,
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: Stay safe out there, and I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:02:23
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• 1:02:26
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• 1:02:29
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• 1:02:32
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