Latest / Reclaiming Consciousness / Bewitched - Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong - Alicia's Story

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Bewitched - Breaking the Spell After Spiritual Mentoring Goes Wrong - Alicia's Story · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Elise Bassine, trauma and breathwork expert, and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_02: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_02: You'll hear stories and teachings that expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_02: Get ready to go deep.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: Now let's dive in.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_03: Hi everyone.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to the show as we continue our Bewitched series, uh, Recovering from When Spiritual Mentorship Goes Wrong.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: And we are continuing our interviews with women who have had an experience with Betty.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: And this week we are interviewing Alicia, and she has a very interesting perspective.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I think this is one of the reasons why we wanted to do multiple interviews, is because I think it's so important to hear so many different perspectives, like from people who had been in her world for a long time, like Alicia had.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_03: She'd been in her world since like 2014, I think.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then you heard from Gia last week, who was only in her world for like less than a year.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, you're gonna hear from people who have multiple different experiences and multiple different perspectives.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_03: But Robin and I are really drawing the parallels and seeing the patterns across all of the interviews that we are doing.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's really the point of doing this is, you know, to make sense of what happened here and also to understand the patterns of behavior that go across not only working with this coach, but relating to people who are narcissistic or manipulative or worse.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I really appreciated Alicia's perspective because, like I said, she started working with Betty over a decade ago, and she had been in her world at that time, like in 2014.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: She left after a while and then came back.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: And then she went on the Croatia retreat, and she, you know, tells her story of all of that.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: And like I had heard of her, but I never actually spoke with her.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: So this was really interesting for me to hear her experience and her perspective.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: And she's very eloquent, very tuned in, very clear.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_03: And I think you're really gonna get a lot out of this.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: And again, she shares things that no one else has so far.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why these interviews are so powerful and each one is so unique.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: So I know you're going to enjoy it.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_03: And once again, Robin and I will be going live on Instagram on Monday to do an episode recap and also address your comments and answer your questions.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's gonna be at 3 p.m.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Eastern on every Monday until the series is over.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: So please don't forget to join us there live to join the conversation and also send over your questions and comments so we can address them on the live.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_03: And then just a couple of quick things here.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: We have a few exciting things coming up.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: The Sacred Money Mind, the five-day broadcast is going to be starting in a few weeks.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_03: You'll be seeing that coming out from me.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that is my tools to clear the trauma that creates money blocks and how I see that, and how you can shift your longstanding patterns or blocks with money to create not only the relationship with money that you desire, but also the money that you desire and allowing it to come in in a way that is most aligned for you.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it is an expression of the work you're meant to do in the world.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: So that's coming up soon.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then also I'm doing a live event here in Philly at the end of March on March 29th.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_03: So if you are local, if you are in Philly area, Philly suburbs, New Jersey, New York, Delaware, the Philadelphia Rebirthing Center is where I'm doing the event.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_03: And if you are in all of those areas, it's probably up to an hour and a half away from you.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: And it is such a beautiful space.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's a big old house in Philadelphia, and the energy there is exceptional.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_03: It's like nothing you've experienced before.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_03: And that's where I'll be teaching this one day event called Dissolve Your Core Wound.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm basically going to be coaching you live to pinpoint the one core wound that is showing up across all areas of your life and creating blocks or slowing your growth in all areas of your life.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of times it'll show up more in a specific area.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_03: So some people it's around money, some people it's around career business, some people it's in their relationships.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: So whatever area you feel like you keep repeating the same pattern over and over again, or you feel stuck and you're not sure which way to go, you won't feel stuck after this event.
• 5:53
  unknown: I promise.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I will be not only coaching you live, but taking you through my inner child healing process, guiding you through it live so you can do it on your own moving forward.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then I will also be guiding you through a live breastwork session to clear the unconscious trauma and process the suppressed emotions that are holding your pattern in place so that you are permanently freed from it.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I am just so excited to do this live event.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_03: So if you are in the area, you definitely want to sign up.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_03: We will put the link here in the show notes, but please reach out to me about it.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_03: Also, I'll be sending out an email today.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: And if you're on my list, you should be receiving it.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: And you can sign up through there as well.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: So I will leave it there.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: Enjoy the episode with Alicia.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome back to our series.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_05: This is Dr.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_05: Robin McKay.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_05: I'm here with my business buddy, and I don't even know what to else to call you.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_05: You're so many things to me.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_05: Elise Bassina is here with Elise Breeds.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_05: And today we have a very special guest with us, Alicia Isaacs House.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_05: And we are so happy to have you join us for this series on the ethics of spiritual leadership, what happens when spiritual coaching goes wrong, and just your contribution to this story that we've been telling over the past few weeks on our podcasts about the effects of being in an alliance with somebody who maybe doesn't have your best interests in heart and mind.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_05: Welcome to the show.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_05: We're so happy to have you here.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me and for doing this because I know this is a contribution to others who are like us who just want to make a difference and bring more light into the world.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_05: So let's start by just asking you to share a little bit about yourself and what your experiences with the person that we're calling Betty throughout the years.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_05: One of the reasons I wanted to have you on here is because you have a lot of historical experience and knowledge about this person and perhaps saw some things earlier on that maybe other people weren't aware of simply because of the longevity in the alliance.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, thank you.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: So I first came across Betty in 2011.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: I attended a retreat in Sedona, and very quickly, like a lot resonated for me.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: I felt an immediate connection.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: There was a lot of truth that was being shared, and I wanted to learn.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so I dove into all kinds of trainings and certifications, and I referred a lot of people to Betty, and she had a teaching school, and I became the development and director for her.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: It was an unpaid position, but there was a lot of it was her way of saying, I trust you, it was uh prestige associated with it.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: What I noticed, and like looking back, it's now it seems so obvious, but at the time I was just kind of enchanted and just absorbing all this information and like new things that I had never come across before in a book or any other teacher.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: But even in that position as director of learning and development, I would see clear mistakes, errors going from one manual to another and just things that hadn't been updated.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't saying this is you're wrong.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, this is confusing.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I teach it, I have to change it round.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Can we just correct it?
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: And those emails she would never respond to.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: There was just no communication, no connection, no reply.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: But it would bug me because I don't like inaccuracy, I don't like typos, like it bugs me.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: So after a couple of weeks, I'll be like, okay, and I'd steal myself, okay, we send, hey, I don't know if you saw this, but we'd love to get this corrected before I teach the material again.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: The same thing.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: I would send an email about something else, immediate response.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And that was a pattern that continued.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Whenever I asked a question that I guess she didn't want to answer or didn't know how to answer, would she wouldn't respond?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I noticed a few things early on, but one of the things that was, I think, a red flag, and this might be helpful for anybody listening, is I did introduce her to others.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I get that we're all different, we all have different frequencies, but there are a couple of people I really trusted, I had a really good heart connection with, and they had very different experiences with Betty, very different.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: They told me she was rude, she told me that I was wrong, I got the time wrong, I got the date mixed up, and I know I didn't like they had the confirmation and everything that they could have possibly done for this appointment they were gonna have.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: They're done with their part, but she would make them wrong and then say, You don't qualify for this now, or I'm not gonna give you this, whatever the service was.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: And they were very confused because they trusted me.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I was enchanted or under some kind of spell, who knows what it was.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was just in awe.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely had her on a pedestal that I didn't listen to what I was being, or didn't see what I was being shown, didn't listen to what I was hearing, and just said, Oh, that was just they just weren't the right connection.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Can I just say something to that?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because I had that exact experience too.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: And like I had clients who would tell me they had those same experiences with her, whether or not I refer them or not.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_03: But then I would think to myself, like, oh, it's just because she has these very high standards.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: Cause I feel like that's how she would portray it, is like she just has these very high standards and requirements for people.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: So that was like a way of excusing what was actually just really rude behavior.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_03: I just wanted to add that because that happened to me, and I feel like that was my like way of excusing it or making it okay in my head.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for sharing that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's fascinating.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_05: I wanted to add that as well.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_05: That as I'm reflecting, that I remember early on, I referred a couple of people to her.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_05: At her behest, she actually asked me, Do you have anybody who you think would be a good fit for me?
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_05: So I referred a couple of people, including somebody who is my heart.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_05: She is so dear to me and had a very similar experience to what you're describing, which was being treated rudely, being treated poorly, and ultimately being basically cast out of Betty's community.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_05: But here's the deal is that right now we're talking about bad business practices and maybe poor leadership stuff.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't know you were at that Sedona retreat all of those years ago.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_05: So can we start there for you?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_05: Because I think that that's an interesting place to begin the story.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_05: Because, of course, you were also at the retreat in Croatia, which would have been at the kind of bookend of this.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_05: So, can you take us back to that initial retreat that you were on all those years ago?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_05: To anything that stands out for you or anything that can help us fill in some blanks or some gaps around helping us make sense of this idea that if it can happen to us, it can happen to anybody.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the reason I went to Sedona in the first place is that I'd heard her on a radio show.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_01: And every time I heard her voice, I could feel the energy of what I work in and what we're all familiar with, the Akashic Records.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd already been teaching, I'd taught the Akashic Records, and I'd been working in the records with clients for 11 years at that point.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: But they were still like, oh, there's there's more to learn.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: So that's why I went, and it was an intensive, like a level one and two, like how to read for yourself and how to read for others in three days.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: It was a sizable group.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think there were about 20 of us.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't remember any red flag.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things I really felt that she did really was manage the energy of a group.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: She's very good at that and setting, setting like ground rules.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: This is how it's gonna be.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I did not come from that, and so I was seeing this going, oh, it was just fascinating to me.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So I was learning a lot about her managing the energy of a group.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: But one of the things that stood out to me is that she's teaching us how to read for others, and all I heard was her asking questions, and she kept asking questions.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And finally, I'm like, This is not how I do it.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: I tend to talk a fair amount and then ask, how does this feel?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: What's coming up for you?
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: What questions do you have?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: But the way she was teaching it was just question after question after question.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, what are you doing?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I finally said, I don't do it this way.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever just share what you're getting, what you perceive, like how this thing could have originated?
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: And she says, and she, oh, yes, yes, we do that, we do that as well.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was the only time I ever really questioned her because I'm like, this doesn't make sense to me.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, she then incorporated more of the not storytelling, but more of the this is what I as a reader am seeing or picking up in your energy around this.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that was fascinating.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: She didn't engage with us, she very very much kept a distance.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: She had a not a handler, but she had one person she's nominated to be her go-to, like you make sure I'm seated where I need to be seated.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I was in awe of how she could be in a large group but really still be detached.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't socialize in the evening, there were no joint meals, I wasn't a part of that.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I didn't get to know her much as a person, but I can see there were things that changed.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I can now see that Betty changed over the years.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: How so?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: She had a great sense of humor at the beginning and was really funny, would burst into song and just sing a silly song, and was willing to make a little bit of fun, like made the sessions fun and not intimidating for the most part.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I do remember early on, so I think I've been working with her for about less than eight months, and it was part of a group program, and I had was meant to be home by a certain time where I knew I'd have quiet and I could join in.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: There was a minute of tornado, we were glamping, and the field was a disaster.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: We left late, we're helping another family.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: And anyway, I was on the road at the time of the call, and I dialed in, and the connection was really bad.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was like northern Wisconsin.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried to say, I'm here, but I just thought I'm just gonna create a lot of distraction because of the road noise and the crackly phone.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: So after about five minutes of waiting and trying to say I'm here, I hung up.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: She berated me.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: How dare you be so rude as not to tell me you're not attending the group call?
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: There was no guideline about you have to attend every call, and if you're not, you need to do this.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't have a warning, like this was an unexpected event at Toledo.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: But I remember feeling very upset because I like being the good girl, the good student.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't get into trouble, but I knew I hadn't meant to be rude.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: I knew I'd done everything I could.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, I actually spoke to somebody about it because it was really upsetting me.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_01: And she said if your intention was pure and that was not in your intention to be rude or disrespectful, then that is what the case was.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I I was able to let that go.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: But that was the first time that she not ridiculed, but wanted to punish me or make me feel bad in the group.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't done privately, it wasn't done in a private message or a private call.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: It was done in the group, uh the Facebook group.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that was really upsetting.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_03: Would you say that behavior was just like an inkling of then what started to get more and more and more?
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_03: And like that feels like it's a leading question, but I I know it's probably not.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: So can you just explain maybe some of the trajectory like after that?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I continued working with her, and in 2018 I pulled away.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: I think logically it was like I needed to create material with my own voice, with my own frequency, my own tools.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I just was I'd outgrown this method.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I let her know I want to teach my own method again.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: I was so enmeshed, maybe, or energetically caught up.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: It took me another two years to officially step out.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_01: So she knew that I wanted to leave.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: I had my own staff, like me becoming visible, me doing all the stuff that you need to do when you do your own method.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: But it wasn't until 2020, and I remember her asking who's going to be teaching this year.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I already knew I wasn't gonna teach that method.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I hadn't for a year, and so I immediately said, No, not me.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Then you need to remove yourself from the group.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: I said, No problem.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_01: So that was when I stepped out.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: And what was interesting is that I didn't feel sad.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'd been in this group for this energy of the Akashic Records for nearly 10 years at that point, and I didn't feel sad.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't miss it.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: I felt relief, I felt free and a little bit elated, like, oh, I finally did it.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: And it took a lot for me to step away, but I'm really glad I did.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then this event happened with Betty, where she said that she had become this enlightened being, had fully immersed herself.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't a walk-in, it was just her higher self.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I was intrigued, and I saw her post on Facebook.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that sounds it just sounded weird for me.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I should have followed that.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but she was like, Oh, who can I bless today?
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, just place your name and I'll bless you.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, This is not the Betty that I knew.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: I got really intrigued, and she did a free call, and that was when I listened.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: And at first, I'm like, this is odd.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt off and odd.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: But there was something in me, I think I was already conditioned in a way to want to be a part of this, to be a good participant, to be a good student, to help her in some way.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Then I saw people I really trusted and I respected talking about this and saying it was real.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, wow, this is fascinating.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: How can I doubt when there's this group of light leaders that I know that I've connected with who are saying this is this was a miracle?
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: So then I was like, okay, let's go in here.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: And then I just was all I was all in again.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_01: And what I noticed is so I signed up for different free calls and groups, and I signed up for a year-long training, certification, private coaching.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: I did nearly everything.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_01: But what I would notice that would bug me is she would say in many of the groups, I was in like two or three different groups, ask me a question, post your questions.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what I don't know until you ask the question.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And then somebody would ask a question and she would berate them and say, Why are you asking that?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: You already know the answer to that.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a squeaky toy, you just get to squeeze and get an answer whenever you want.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so it created a lot of confusion.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: I, for one, didn't want to post a question because I didn't want to be made fun of in the group.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: And looking back now, I realized there were some people who saw that and realized this is not loving.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: This is not light leadership, this is rude and disrespectful and hurtful.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And some of those people I noticed they weren't in the group anymore.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so the group started shifting.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_01: But I was very loyal.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a very good girl, a very good student in that way.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: Not now.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I've learned a lot, so I kind of stuck with it all.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Way through to Croatia.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: In those moments when you noticed people leaving, did you consider that, or what was like going through your head at the time, or like what maybe were the stories you were telling yourself about, like why it was okay?
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's such a good question.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Because in the groups, many of them, I connected with them one-on-one outside.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: We were practicing, we were just getting to know each other.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember one woman who hadn't yet been fully booted out, but was beginning to feel very uncomfortable.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Now I see, and we have spoken, she was trying to see if I had noticed the same things, was feeling uncomfortable.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: I had blinkers on.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: I really did only want to see her as this ascended being who had nothing but love and couldn't even swear because it was nothing but love that could come through her.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't question her.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: And when this woman was trying to just sound me out, have you noticed?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how did that feel when you saw somebody ask the question?
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And and I was like, oh, well, you know, rolls people out the wrong way because she reminds them of someone, or it's their own stuff coming up.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I was defending her.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: Do you feel like you were defending her because you might have just underlyingly been afraid that if you didn't or said something about her, then like you would be the one that would be berated or called out in front of the group?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want ever to be picked out and made wrong or mocked or scolded.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd had it, I had an experience earlier in the year in a private coaching where now it was a big red flag.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: So this is for anybody who's listening.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: We started off a program with a VIP half day, did a deep dive.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: I got very, very specific guidance.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: I take a lot of notes and I had the recording, very specific guidance about what my follow-up actions were regarding my business.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was working on them and I was sending updates, and we got on to the first regular coaching haul.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she basically said, Why are you working on this?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_01: What are you doing?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_01: I did not say this.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: What were you listening to?
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_01: It was not me.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, No, I made notes, and no, and she absolutely flat out refused to acknowledge this whole three and a half hours that we'd been working together, and that was the main focus.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: Was suddenly I wasn't listening, I was wrong.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was, oh, I see, you're in resistance.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like then she would be like, she'd scolded me, and then she'd come in and swoop me up to say, I understand why you did that.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's because of this trauma.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: So let's look at that.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_01: She made me wrong.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: I got the scolding that I've been trying to avoid.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was, but I got you.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: We'll figure this out.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: I understand.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: So then come in with the compassion.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the compassion and the apparent love and care was actually a tool.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was a weapon in her hands.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_05: Elise, I'm seeing you shaking your head.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_05: Do you want to take a run at this one?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_05: I might not be able to without cursing.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_03: You wouldn't offend me.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_03: I like when you curse about this.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_03: Is just so fucking horrible to do this to somebody.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: And like, here's the thing, and I want people to understand who are listening.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's not like you're just walking into a situation and this happens, and you can say, Oh, that was wrong.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: I'm walking away.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: You've like really invested something like energetically, financially, and you've like really opened your heart and your consciousness to this person.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's like you are taken on like this whole roller coaster, right?
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_03: Of like the gaslighting, the trauma, but then, oh, but I'm going to be here for you and make you feel better.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_03: So you're a little bit disassociated.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like you're kind of like, wait, what just happened?
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not really sure, but I'm glad that she's not yelling at me anymore.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: So it's almost like a traumatized child who doesn't know what to do.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_03: And you kind of are in that state.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: And this is why I get so angry, is because she's using these techniques that are really manipulative, but that also work from like a trauma mind control perspective.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: And it's really messed up because also like you had the recording, roll the fucking tape.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: Like you had the recording of what she said.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_03: But here's the thing would you ever feel like you could say that to her?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Probably not, right?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: Not then.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because I would have been shunned, I would have been banished.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: She would have gasled at you for that and said, Oh, now you're trying like and made it about you and your being your fault, instead of it being like, hey, I'm showing you this is what you said.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: And what I realize now is that there were others who maybe they did question, they hadn't been in her world as long.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_01: So when they did question and she did banish them, as it were, and then she would be very derogatory about them and label them and make them wrong, them negative.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I realize now, because I've been talking to people, that they had just crossed a line with her and she wasn't having it, she wouldn't let them back in.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: But they still felt wrong.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_05: Well, it's also the divide and conquer as well.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_05: So even if we go back to the original referrals who had poor experiences with her, and why did you have a good experience with her?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_05: It's divide and conquer.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_05: So she calling you from your community, making people question you about your discernment when they have a shit experience with somebody where you're having a good experience with her.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_05: And then over the course of literally years, you guys, this was not a five-minute deal.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_05: This was literally years of being engaged because there are things that were happening that seemed to be on the upswing as well.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_05: You wouldn't have invested time, money, and energy into another private package with her had there not been some positive outcomes coming out as well.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_05: But the cost, it reminds me of here, let me punch you in the face and make you cry so I can soothe you and make you feel better.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_05: It's classic abuse.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_05: But when you're in it, I don't know about you, I would have never been aware or had the awareness to label it as that.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: I absolutely did not.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I spoke to a trauma counselor after Croatia.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I haven't spoken about this to many people.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: So this is a big deal.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I trust her implicitly.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I shared with her some of what happened, and she finally said, because I was feeling wrong and feeling guilty and all the money I'd spent, well, and she said, You were groomed.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is not your fault.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: You were being groomed at least the whole year, and it really stopped me in my tracks.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it for a long time, even just me thinking about that moment, I would burst into tears again.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was groomed, and to think that a light, a supposed light leader could do that to another anyone.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: What we all have in common is that we want to make a positive difference, we want to help.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so to do that and target light leaders like us, it's very clever if you want to just you know bring restoration down.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's a she's very clever, and it was heartbreaking to hear that.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, that's a powerful statement.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: And then, like, when you heard that and it affected you so much, because I know for me, as I processed this, I would like remember something, and then it would connect the dots between all these other things, and it would be like doot, doot, doot, doot, doot.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_03: So, like when you heard that phrase, you were groomed, was there any like moments that kind of like connected dots or stuck out for you as part of that grooming process?
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny, like even you just asked me the question.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm flashing back to a time after a three-day training I'd done with her in Vancouver in 2014, I think, or 15.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: And at the end of it, she invited me back to her room and she opened up a bottle of wine, and we were drinking, and she was telling me all about her personal life and all this stuff.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, I had her on this pedestal, and yet she's confiding in me, and it felt it felt good because I thought, oh, maybe we're there's a real connection here.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's when she invited me to be the director of learning and development, and it was such an honor, and I was like, oh my god, and I was like on cloud nine, and so that to me stands out as a moment where she was she was letting me know she thought I was special in some way, or I had a special gift or something I could contribute, and it felt like an honor.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so that it was those moments are when she would praise me.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: I remember even just last year, she gave me some ideas, and I wrote five minutes after the session, I wrote a bunch of copies, sent it to her, and she was like, Oh my god, you're amazing! This is brilliant copy.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Didn't know you could write so well, and I felt like you know, so those are moments where I feel like there was a lot of one-on-one love, attention, and making me feel special, which she knew from my work with her.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get that growing up.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get a lot of one-on-one attention, and so I don't know because I'm not a trauma expert the way you are, Elise.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's part of it, but I know I remember feeling special, and that moment is really standing out.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, it's interesting because that is a pattern that we're seeing, Robin.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_03: You can I know you had something to say, but there's a few things you said that are part of the patterns that we're seeing with everyone we're talking to, but that's one of them is making the person feel special.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, interesting.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_05: What stood out for me as you were telling that story was of course when Elise and I and a couple of other people were in Santa Fe with her, and she pulled us into the room late at night, and we became this uh sounding board for her as she was making a decision about one of the retreat members and what to do and how to handle things.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_05: And again, there was this sort of separation from the bigger group, the special ones or the high-level ones, or the ones who she trusted the most, or who had the most experience, or who were the somehow the best leaders were involved in this decision-making process.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_05: Not really, but that's what it made me feel like anyway.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_05: And then the other thing, Alicia, again, I know this is a leading question, but we are not in a court of law.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_05: So I'm just gonna ask the question as it occurs to me.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_05: When she pulled you into that room all those years ago drinking wine, it reminded me, Elise.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_05: Remember when I was telling the story of that first retreat I went on?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_05: I forget where it was at this point.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, Denver.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_05: I was by myself with her before the other retreat attendees had gotten there, Alicia, and she handed me a bottle of water and she said, Will you open this for me?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_05: And I had this weird feeling of like, why can't you open your bottle by yourself?
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_05: But I understand now that that was me giving consent.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_05: I think you and I talked about this actually offline.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_05: You were helping me move through that.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_05: And I wondered if there was a similar, like what that triggered that story I just told triggered for you or reminded you of.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_05: If there was any moment like that that you can think of where you might have given consent about something simple, but it was far more deeper reaching than that.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny because when you mentioned that bottle of water, it's like I'm there.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I feel there's such a strong response in me.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: I can't recall a time where that simple request was made, other than when she said we'd be the director of learning and development.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like that was where I said, Yeah, I will serve you because it was a non-paying position.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would have to do the collect the surveys and do things.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_01: That was your moment of consent when you said yes.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_01: That was my moment of consent.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I will be in service to you.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it came up again in Croatia in different ways.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: So this being who is all-knowing, all-powerful, here to save the planet, couldn't carry her own backpack or even a bottle of water.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you remember, there were many times, where's my bottle of water?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and somebody would be carrying it for her.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, and I remember at the time thinking, why can't you carry your own backpack?
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't you carry your own water?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: But it was all those ways of getting us to comply or show obedience, or I don't know what it is and how you might see it, but it bugged me at the time.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: It bugged me.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_05: Let's go back to your decision to go to Croatia in the first place, because I think I would like to spend some time there, and then have you tell us just from an objective perspective, what happened?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_05: What the hell happened in Croatia from your perspective?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Croatia was really interesting, life-changing, and there were many blessings that came out of it.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_01: But one thing is I want to take back to when she was advertising it and she announced it.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I signed up not straight away, but I did sign up early on because I was really called to the mission to help the planet.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to be a part of that.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: And she said it's like, yeah, it's a mission we came here for, and I felt really called for that.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: But then she started advertising it saying it was announced 48 hours ago and it's 50% full.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew that there were 24 open spaces.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: There weren't 12 people signed up.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: So I remember going, that's weird.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And every time she talked about the retreat from the year before, she would call it her sold-out retreat.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: But she'd invited me to it and she told me how many she wanted.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I know she didn't have it, but she kept referring to it even like way after the fact, it would be in capitals, my sold-out retreat.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: So again, I was catching things, but not really paying attention to what another pattern.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_05: Sometimes you can say that's a marketing tactic that marketers will use in order to help people think that there are limited spots and to make it more enticing and things like that.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_03: You can do that though without lying.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, like you can create urgency without lying.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: And she very specifically said she cannot lie because of this ascension or awakening.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that was a lie.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_01: You could not lie, and yet that was a red flag.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_01: I could have looked at that and said, She's telling me she cannot lie, she can't even swear because it's such a low vibration, and she's in this constant state of joy.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I know this is not true.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know for a fact that this is not true.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: She wanted 24 people originally, and that yeah, eventually there were 12.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: At no point was it 50, it was 50% full at the end.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_05: So you stepped in early on, and what happened as a result of you stepping in, apart from that you recognized that she was lying about it being 50%.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Croatia was interesting.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to summarize, so I'll do my best.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: But it started out as a very joyful reunion and connection with some women I knew, some I'd never met.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, you and I got to meet for the first time in the airport.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, that's right.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_05: We came in at the same time, yeah.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_05: And we drove to the the hotel together and we're just delighted to, along with another retreat member, to meet each other for the first time in person.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_05: And so excited.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember going up to the rooftop and seeing the pool and the view, and it was just like, oh my gosh, I get to do this and be with these people.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I started to feel special because like not everybody else had arrived.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'd arrived a day early, as did you and some others.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: And Betty hung out with me and you for a while, and we spent the whole of the that first day exploring the city.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I just love travel and I love going to new places, and it was just fascinating to me.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I was just in pure joy.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_01: But even then, I don't know if you remember Robin, like she wouldn't carry things she bought, and I was carrying things for her that she could have carried something, but anyway, that's another story.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's just making me more and more angry because I'm just like, what is she the fucking Pope?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why are people like, is she like a saint?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: Is there an explanation for this?
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like there wasn't a slight explanation.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to say it, but because she carried this energy of a very small creature on the planet.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: So while she wasn't that creature, but she carried the energy of it as an ascended being, it would just weigh her down, it would weigh her wings down or her ability to move through the planet, and yeah, even that didn't make sense.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like logically, it doesn't make sense.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_01: You feel this ascended being and you're all-knowing, all-powerful, because that was part of what happened in Croatia.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_01: It started off pretty normally, um, but then we got to a well-known sacred site, and things started to shift.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: And it was while we were at that site in the afternoon, I think it was day three, she's got us in a group, and we're outside, so there's air and wind, and other groups moving around, and we're all trying to listen.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: She speaks very quietly and just whispery whispery.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got to really lean in.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know, of course, she said, I'm not who I've said I am, I am, and she used the term Christos, which meant God, creator, everything, like the highest, highest level you can imagine.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: She said, That is who I am.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: I had to come back in this form because it's more acceptable and easier for the humans to work with her in that particular feminine energy, but that she really was the all-knowing creator.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: So she's God.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, she said she was God.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_05: Just to clarify.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_05: Well, I will say that my interpretation of Christos is because of the Catholicism, because of where I come from in Catholicism, Christos is the Christ.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_05: And in the past, what I noticed is that she would from time to time reference the Christos energy or the Christ consciousness.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_05: A lot of people do that in our spaces.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_05: So it's not that unusual.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_05: But in that situation, Alicia, as I was there as well, when she said that, it was not, oh, you're Christos and I'm Christos, and we're all creative beings.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_05: It's I'm Christos.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_05: And so then that became the sort of the moment that the rest of the retreat pivoted on.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_05: Would you say that's an accurate description?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_01: Things started to shift dramatically after that.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because then it all became while we were all there on a mission, we thought to really help the planet and restore some codes and do some stuff, which I still don't know what that was about.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it suddenly became about her that others knew she was there.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: They were pursuing her, hunting her, and we were in jeopardy because we were with her.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was around her.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember it was the next day we all got on the coach to move to our next destination.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the other participants had noticed some unusual things in the outer world and was relaying that.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember noticing like she got very animated and very, this is about me.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_01: See, they know I'm here.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you remember.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give an example of what the example in the outer world was?
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: That there were articles that being published.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: They were basically the same story, but they used different names.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: But it was the same story being published, I think, two or three times with different names, different characters, different locations, but basically it was the same story.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I can't remember the details right now, but there was a parallel, and it was all in code.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: That these were the people who were talking about her in code, saying that they knew she was in Croatia, they knew she'd arrived, and that it was on, it was game time.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: They needed to get her.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_01: I just remember feeling like there was just this lot of, I don't know how to describe it, but it was a lot, it was almost like there's all this energy, like she was like, oh, attention.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_03: It feels like she was conjuring energy from all of you.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_05: Or siphoning it.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_05: So when we look at just from a psychological perspective, when we look at you're in a small group, you're in a foreign country, you're on a retreat, we're all helpers, healers, and who have a profound level of capacity to alter our consciousness anyway.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_05: And then there is this situation of having heightened awareness.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_05: Because if you'll remember, of course, Alicia, her paranoia started way back at the beginning on even day zero before anything started with the drone is watching me, or there's cameras everywhere.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_05: We're being, we're always being watched.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_05: And so that heightened awareness creates an altered state of consciousness for us as well, which elicits fear, which is then something that she could siphon and use for her own purposes.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_05: That's one way of thinking about it.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was about an hour and a half after we got on the coach and this energy started shifting that we arrived at a place we were meant to have a beautiful lunch.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: It was a banquet that had been laid out for us.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: In this beautiful location, and um we walked in, she used the bathroom, and she said, We need to leave.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: This is poisoned, they know we're here, this is an ambush.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_01: Get back on the coach.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: We were obedient, but we were terrified.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Oh my god, really?
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: So we all got on the coach, we didn't eat lunch, and then we end up going to our next destination, and the same thing happened within about two minutes, three minutes of arrival.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: The name of the hotel, things that she was seeing was like, This is a sign, this is the ambush, this is what they wanted us to come to.
• 44:35
  SPEAKER_01: And the things escalated very, very quickly on that day.
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_04: Who's they, by the way?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_04: Does she ever say who they is?
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: She gave them a name, but like the reptilian alien, the energies that want to suppress humans and keep us as slaves, take all the resources.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: They want her because she's God.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: Because she's God, and she's here to restore the planet to the peoples.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: Got it.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, just just making sure so everyone can follow the psychodrama, as Robin would call it.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_05: But we have to remember it's not Christ in Catholicism, is God, but it was Christo.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_05: So in the Christ story, there is betrayal, there's ambush, there's sacrifice, there's blood sacrifice.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_05: So this whole story, the mythology starts playing out.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's so insightful.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_05: And we have to keep in mind now we have missed one meal already, and we have limited access to water because we can only drink out of water that is sanctioned, because the other water might be, well, in foreign countries anyway, it's always a good idea to have filtered water.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_05: The level, I think Gia used that word paranoia the other day, the level of paranoia about being poisoned, being tracked, being hunted became exponentially greater as the retreat went on.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_05: If we can even call it a retreat at this time.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_05: Yes, it was.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I think that like from that afternoon, things accelerated very quickly once we got to that next destination, which I think was like day four, three.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was all meshed together.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, or day 746.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: I remember with some bliss, like having a shower.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: I got to change for dinner.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a dinner with some of the, not all the participants, but some of the dinner we sat outside.
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, this felt like a oh, this is what it's meant to be a beautiful view, wonderful food.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: I've showered.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was it.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_01: That was the last moment of any normal normalcy, I think, in that whole retreat.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because after that we were called to a meeting, and she couldn't go to her room.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: She had to go into another participant's room so they wouldn't find her, because she was the one they were looking for.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: And so there were 13 of us crammed into a room designed for two, and we stayed there for many, many hours being told how dangerous this was.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was a certain moon, it was a hunter's moon, and all of this.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she started to train us in how to disable somebody physically, like certain blows or kicks, and the energy you have to have and the focus.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_05: And okay, but let's be honest.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_05: She was not training anybody, she was reciting something that she probably read in a book.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_05: You cannot, well, let me watch this YouTube video and tell you these are the things that you do, but you cannot actually train train somebody verbally in combat.
• 47:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: It was very strange that looking back, I'm like, why were we, as light healers, light workers, sitting there being trained how to disable somebody physically, not properly, but I don't know why I didn't just get up and leave at that point.
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was very confused.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: And others started to, I don't know if it's because I'm English or I'm just more reserved.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it is, but so others were starting to really get into the energy and and tuning in.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, I was feeling nothing.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was not getting any of the stuff she was telling us.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't feel it in my gut, like this sense of impending danger.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I felt danger, but it was in that room.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't outside the room.
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was a very that was the beginning when things get really, really, really weird, I think.
• 48:26
  SPEAKER_03: So then take us down the weird rabbit wall.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_03: What happened next?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: None of us were meant to sleep in our own.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: We did leave the room.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Some of us stayed in that room, but others we had to sleep in, not even just with our roommate for a roommate.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: We were meant to sleep with four, like groups of four.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_05: Let me just tell you a 3D portion of this, guys, because I feel like it's important to make this clear.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_05: There were literally 3D things going on, like in reality, that were creating the conditions for me personally to feel unsafe.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_05: So as a single woman traveling in a foreign country, when I get to my hotel room, I do certain things.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_05: I check the locks on the door.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_05: At the hotel that we were staying, there was no uh, you know, those metal locks that go across the door.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_05: None of the doors had that.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_05: And then I couldn't lock my slider either.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_05: There was no way to lock the slider.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_05: So my awareness is heightened that this doesn't feel like realistically and practically safe to me to be here.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_05: Under normal circumstances, I might have called the front desk and said, hey, this is what's going on.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_05: But because I think I was with a group, the energy was just different for me to not do that.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_05: And I actually reflected on that.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_05: And I think that there was some like, don't call the front desk because they already know.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_05: And this is there was this whole like, all of this is already planned.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_05: But I do want to say that because there were these in 3D, these moments where I was like, yeah, this does this actually like literally is something that I might be concerned about.
• 50:03
  SPEAKER_05: And I might feel safer to stay with a friend whose doors lock, for example.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember that I think there was somebody else whose door didn't have a bolt, and my our sliding door didn't lock.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so there were a few things, yeah, that could be unsettling.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that night some did sleep on their own, not on their own, but in this their own bed.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: And there was a lot that was going on that night that I wasn't privy to because I wasn't in them the group where she was.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: I was in the separate group.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: But that next morning we were not meant to have breakfast.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't safe to eat.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: The lunch that had been that we paid for and that we were meant to take uh at another site was cancelled.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: She actually had us post, uh, somebody post on Facebook that we were staying in this country rather than moving to the next location to put the people off.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so there's a lot of confusion, and we eventually getting to catch the the flight to another location.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_01: At that point, we're not meant to let anybody touch our luggage, and that meant that other people had to move her luggage too.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: We were no longer meant to be talking to the tour guide and facilitator who'd been hired.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: I remember feeling just really awkward that I'm not talking or acknowledging this person.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then as soon as we got to the next location and we walked in the hotel, and it was like this sense of, oh, finally we're safe.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be okay.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is beautiful setting.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: We can find in she actually said, We're gonna finally have the retreat.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: People still checking in at the reception, and suddenly it was like, this is another ambush, this is where they do blood sacrifice, we are all in danger, we need to go now.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_01: Who's got the first room checked in?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go there.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_01: And so that particular section of the trip, a really intense night.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: There were 13 of us in a room all night.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we didn't have dinner, so we'd not meant to have had breakfast.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: I did grab a banana.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, I was hungry.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had snacks somewhere at the airport or snacks that we bought.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember us having any lunch.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_05: No, there was no food, very limited water.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_05: And then by the time everyone is gathered in that hotel room, at one point she finally says, Okay, now everybody gather all the snacks together and we're going to share snacks.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_05: So she was controlling when we were to eat and how much we were to eat and what we were to eat.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, two water bottles that we got to share between 13 of us.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_05: That was it.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_05: That were the filtered water bottles.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_05: Looking at it from the outside, looking in now, I can see the level of control over the food, the water, the sleep deprivation was a big piece of it.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_05: And then what stood out for you on that last night, Alicia, of the official before the retreat, the rest of the retreat was canceled.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_05: What stood out for you?
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: It was terrifying at times.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like again, I never felt in danger outside of anything outside.
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: But in that room, she started doing that thing where she'll pick on one person in front of the whole group and berate them, tell them off, scold them.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: And they didn't have a chance to explain what they were doing or what their intention was.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, you are wrong.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: You're so insignificant.
• 53:25
  SPEAKER_01: Don't you dare talk to me right now.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: That was the energy.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember this one wonderful, such a kind-hearted woman.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: She just gave me some of the snacks to help her.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_01: We all had to share them.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_01: I asked you to share the snacks.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't ask you to give them to Alicia to share the snacks.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, it's not a freaking big deal.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_01: But and I remember her wanting complete silence so that she could tune in to what was going on outside.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: And again, that's part of me is like, but if you're all knowing, all seeing, like, why do you need all silence to figure this stuff out?
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_01: That night was, I remember feeling very uncomfortable, like physically.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to sit on the floor because I wanted space around me.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to be jammed on the bed or on the couch.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to be where it was uh, I had some space in my fancy legs.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember one of the other participants turning to me and she just looked me full in the eyes and she said, Do you want to go for a walk?
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: And this is when dawn had arrived, and we'd already decided that we were all cancelling.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: The retreat was cancelled by her, but we were rescheduling our flights.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: And she just looked at me with these big eyes and said, Do you want to go for a walk?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it was almost like she was begging me to please leave that room.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I said no, because I was more afraid of leaving without her permission than I was just to go to my room, shower, have a rest in this room that I paid for and I never got to sleep in.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I remember that as a very significant moment when I so you guys were all in that one room for that entire night and you didn't sleep?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_03: And what was happening?
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_03: And how did you all sit in there and stay up the entire night?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_03: That blows my mind.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_03: Did anyone sleep?
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_03: Like, what was going on?
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, one person fell asleep, she got drowsy, and she had two guards at either end of the room, like to listen, and then she had somebody who was like monitoring the two guides or guards to let us know if we needed to be quiet or listen.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_01: And what else, Robin?
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_05: Elise, if you'll remember in San Diego, how we were up for those however many hours we were up playing, basically playing Star Wars with the energetics, it was all night.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_05: It was all night on energy work all night long.
• 55:43
  SPEAKER_05: This is your interview, Elisia, but I just wanted to just clarify that because, you know, and I had been primed for that.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_05: And there were several of us who had been primed for that simply because of the previous experiences that we had, whether it was in Santa Fe or in San Diego or long ago in Denver, that these weird experiences happen.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_05: And this is simply part of the work that we do is this energy work on this level.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_05: I had the sense, Alicia, maybe that you did as well.
• 56:09
  SPEAKER_05: I never felt like physically threatened.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_05: I always knew, if anything, this is a frequency war that we're in.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_05: These are unseen.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_05: This is an energetic situation that we are in.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_05: What I was aware of is how she was siphoning the energy that we were creating through our fear, but also through our abilities.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_03: What kind of led you guys to this decision that you were going to go home?
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: What I recall is that Betty said, I can't keep you safe.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not safe.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: I can't keep you safe.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: You all need to go home.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm canceling the retreat.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: And that she needed somebody to accompany her to keep her safe.
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_05: She said that, but then she forced our agreement with that as well.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_05: In other words, she literally said, Do we all agree that we are ending the retreat as I remember it?
• 57:00
  SPEAKER_05: So there was that agreement that we were all ending the retreat, even though she was the one who obviously initiated it.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_05: So go on with that then, because she said, I can't keep myself safe, I can't keep you safe, but I need somebody to help me get home.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_01: So this all-being, all-knowing Christos energy can't move through an airport by herself and needed somebody to guide her and manage the practicalities.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: Two of you were going to do that.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I felt compelled to not so much with her, I felt compelled to be with you.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I remember that moment because myself, and listen, it makes sense because I'd been, in your words, groomed.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_05: Every retreat I went on, I had to work.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_05: Every retreat I went on with her, I there was always something that I had to do extra.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_05: Had to, meaning that I agreed to do extra based on her asking me to do it.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, I don't have enough cash.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_05: Can you go to the cash machine?
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, there's this person who's interfering with the energetics of the retreat.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_05: Can you help me manage the energetics of it?
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_05: So by this time, it's just in my response set to say, of course.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_05: And we were going back to North America anyway.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_05: And from my perspective, I was like, I still have five days before I have anything.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_05: I've already planned to be gone.
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_05: We'll just, I think mentally, I thought this is a retreat after the retreat, of course.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_05: That's been my response set as well.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_05: But I remember as I and the other person who was going to accompany her were making our plans, you came over and whispered to me and you said, I think I meant to go with you.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_05: And I don't remember how I you would have perceived me in responding, but I remember that you asked me, she you said, do you want me to come?
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, I can't answer that for you.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_05: You have to decide.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I remember that very clearly.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a part of me was like, Oh, just the idea of going back to my family and just getting out of this nightmare felt so enticing and so good.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I couldn't do it.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's a part of me who's like, no, I need to be in this other this next bit.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_01: And so the next bit began.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 59:12
  SPEAKER_03: So then what happened on the next bit?
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: Most of us um went to the airport and we all got connecting flights and made our way to different locations.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_01: Two people weren't able to fly out that day or three, and they they stayed and made their own ways back.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: But after a very weird, intense day at the airport, because we left at 10 at nine o'clock in the morning, but our flights weren't until three or four or six.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we were there all day.
• 59:39
  SPEAKER_01: And we finally got, I think it was literally planes, trains, and automobiles to get to this next place that that Robin, Betty, one other person, and I were going to stay at.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_01: And we got there, and it was just it was intense, just the journey to get there.
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_03: Was there like a way that you chose where you were going after that?
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_03: Was there any kind of rhyme or reason to that?
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Betty had a connection in that same place.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_01: So there was like a resource, somebody could book accommodation.
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_05: And she was very convinced that this person would be very, very helpful, that this person would help us to feel safe, that this would person would understand.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_05: So it started, it felt to me like it was a safe harbor.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_05: And again, I was in the mindset, and maybe you were too, Alicia, of well, this is the retreat after the retreat.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_05: Eventually we'll make it back home, and Bob's your uncle.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_05: Little did we know that the level of intensity and in dare I say insanity, maybe would continue, the psychodrama would continue.
• 1:00:42
  SPEAKER_05: And every time I think I got to a point where I was like, okay, now maybe we can rest, now maybe we can sleep, now maybe we can have dinner.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_05: There would always be something else that would get spun up, yeah, that would draw our attention away from just getting our basic needs met.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_01: So at this point, we haven't slept for two nights.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_01: We haven't had any regular food, just snacks and things that we were able to get at the airport.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_01: And we finally get to this place, this haven, and we're so relieved, and we're like, okay, this is it, this is it.
• 1:01:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we start talking and connecting, and suddenly it's oh my god, we are now in the viper's den.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're in the center of where all this sacrifice and this evil is happening, and it's again, it's like they know we're here, they know that she's there, and we're sitting ducks.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the level of energy work we were doing, and just constant.
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_01: We we couldn't rest, even when we slept, it was very it was like maybe two or three hours, and then she would wake up with another download.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_01: Quick, you need to listen so we don't have to gather again, so that she could tell us what the next saga was going to be.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that was intense.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, can you give us an example of what the download is that she would give you?
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, I remember walking through the airport and there was an advert for a consulting company, and it was uh they had a they had like a snake in the name of the company, and there was a cobra, and suddenly that was all we were now in the viper's den, like the king cobra was there, and literally we were on top of it.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: So basically it was all just more of the same, like why you should be scared and why you were in danger.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and that we were there not just by a happenstance, it was all being a setup, even the way that her connection had lived there for so many years was a part of this all being pre-planned.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right, Robin?
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: So then at this point, what's going through your head?
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_03: Are you thinking, like, all right, I just need to go home?
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_03: Are you thinking I have to stay here?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_03: What is happening inside of you?
• 1:02:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then also you and Robin, and then I know there was one other person with you besides Betty.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_03: Did you guys get to talk at all without her there?
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_03: What was going through your mind?
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_03: Were you like on board at this point still, or are you thinking I gotta get the hell away from this bitch?
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_03: What is happening in your head?
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember us having a lot of time to just be and chill.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: We were always doing something.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_01: I did food and laundry, and Robin was always channeling or clearing some energy or dismantling the abilities of someone else or whatever it might be.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the other person was strategizing and figuring out where we could go next that was safe.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_05: I was also moving the luggage.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_05: Oh my god.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_05: And running in between places because I was the most pit one.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_05: And I became the pack horse basically.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, I was doing there was a lot of physical energy that I was moving all the time, all the time, having to move all the luggage.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_03: As I'm listening to this too, and I'm like kind of again drawing the parallels from all the stories that I've heard so far.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I know we've said this, but I just want to say it again that it really does feel like all that she was doing was siphoning energy from everybody.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because the whole thing is I'm not gonna let you do anything else other than do this energy work that I'm gonna tell you to do.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that was her way of like literally hooking in like a parasite and getting her energy from everybody around her because that's what parasites do.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_03: They can't live without a host.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_05: That's so interesting that you say that because I want to bring this in for the larger conversation.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_05: About a month before the Croatia trip, you know, I've been studying channels for 20 plus years.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_05: I've been studying the psychology of it, I've been studying like all of it.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_05: And and she knew that.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_05: And she would say, Well, you need to study me for this, and this is for your research and things like that.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_05: And one of the things that she started telling me was that there's a difference between a channel and a host.
• 1:05:08
  SPEAKER_05: And she would be sure to differentiate that, of course, a channel is what she was, and there are others who are on the planet who are acting like channels, but they're actually hosts for parasites, basically, Elise, to your point.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_05: I just want to bring that forward because I think that we can get into the day-to-day, like what you were thinking stuff, but then there's this other layer of remembering that we were here as light leaders, as people who identify as channels.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_05: And a lot of what we were doing was channeling.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_05: And within the frame of that, it made sense.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_05: But again, to your point, Elise, that the siphoning of energy and the taking of Alicia's wisdom and Alicia's gentleness and Alicia's nurturing for her purpose, right?
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_05: The taking of my physical energy or my physical appearance or of the other person's intellectual pride.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_05: Those were all aspects of the strategy that she was running, I believe, that created this sort of microcosm.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_05: For me, Alicia, I don't know if you felt this way at the location.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_05: We never named it, but it was in France.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_05: I felt pretty hopeless.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_05: I felt pretty much like I'm at the pit of hell and I don't know how I'm gonna get out of here.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_05: Did you have that?
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: Not the whole time.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's one point where I think we were all hungry.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: We wanted some, somebody wanted some fresh bread, and I wanted to put my feet in the water.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: I just so badly wanted to be in the sea.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I spoke the language.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, okay, I'm gonna go.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I got dressed, and I'm like, I just need to get fresh air because this was our second day inside.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: We were there for four or five days and we didn't leave once.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm like, I just need to get outside.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then she basically said, if you go outside, we're all in danger.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to put us all in danger?
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, okay, no.
• 1:06:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um, actually, remember the other woman and I went downstairs because we were going to go.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_05: And we're literally met at the door by two like Amazon drivers.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_05: Yes.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_05: Which was weird.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_05: It was Trey Bazaar.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_05: They weren't like threatening or anything, they were just standing there looking confused.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_05: And it was like one of those moments, like it could have just been nothing, or it could have been like having been immersed in this psychodrama for as many days as we had at that point.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_05: It was just another indicator that we needed to stay inside.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_05: I love the sunshine.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_05: I have to be in the sunshine.
• 1:07:30
  SPEAKER_05: And without sunshine for days.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_05: So the mental health and well-being of each of us was also being compromised as we went through this experience.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think the hardest part for me of all of this, there are many hard parts, but I think that two days before we left, she started to basically separate us from our loved ones at home.
• 1:07:55
  SPEAKER_01: My husband, my son, they were whatever they she wanted to call them.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_01: But they were studying me, they were analyzing me, they were out to get me.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't love me.
• 1:08:05
  SPEAKER_01: They were there for their mission.
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: And she did that with each of us.
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_01: It was our kids, our partner, our sibling, our parents.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_01: It was just like our whole world outside of that space was suddenly compromised and unsafe.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_03: So, how did that land for you?
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_03: Because I'm just kind of reflecting for me and myself.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_03: I could see that working maybe like with a partner, but if you bring my kids into it, like I'm just gonna be like, fuck that bitch.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I'm out of here.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like I would not stand for that.
• 1:08:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm just thinking this in my own mind, right, as you're speaking.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_03: Not to say I don't know how I would react in the situation, but I'm just wondering for you, how did that land for you when she's bringing your son into it?
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_01: I was horrified, I was grief stricken, but I'm still like, I'm still believing because I'm sleep deprived, hungry.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a pressure cooker, and I'm not really myself.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not thinking clearly.
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember thinking, oh my God, my whole life is just blown up, my whole life is blown up.
• 1:09:08
  SPEAKER_01: I remember thinking that, and like, where do I go?
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_01: And the whole impetus was getting Betty back to her home and that we were gonna somehow all live and in a commune or be a part of our mission, we'd get funding somehow, and we'd we'd do this work, but we wouldn't have our families, we wouldn't have our loved ones.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: We were the family now.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_01: That's the extent to which the separation went.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was insane.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_03: So you did believe that for a time, or you were like on board with that for a time because of your week.
• 1:09:39
  SPEAKER_01: I remember just feeling shocked.
• 1:09:41
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I believed it.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh my gosh, is this this is real?
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_01: This is happening.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_05: Well, shock is a trauma response.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_05: You're given traumatic information or information that created trauma, and then your shock was the trauma response.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_05: And then the solution to the problem of the trauma was we're gonna create our own group of high-level leadership and we're going to do this work.
• 1:10:05
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: So she blew up our own personal like family, home, sense of home, and was recreating it with her.
• 1:10:12
  SPEAKER_03: So then what kind of got you to the point that you decided to go home?
• 1:10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Because you went home from there, right?
• 1:10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because my family live abroad.
• 1:10:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I went back to England first.
• 1:10:21
  SPEAKER_01: And the moment I said goodbye at the airport, I felt like I could breathe.
• 1:10:26
  SPEAKER_01: There was a shift, an immediate shift.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think, Robin, you might have felt that.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: As soon as you left that energy, you felt, yeah, there was a sense of fucking I had like 10 days left.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So you had more, yeah, you went more intense.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I went home and I was really confused because everything at home was exactly the same, my parents and just stuff.
• 1:10:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really nervous about getting back to the States and what was going to happen there.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_01: I was numb.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_01: And at that point, Betty had rejected more of us.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_01: She decreased the group, and I remember there was going to be a masterminding, it was a debrief.
• 1:11:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like many of us had signed up in full, and we got a bonus call, and it was going to be like the replacement for the bonus call.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And she scheduled it on an afternoon that wasn't convenient.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really like, I do not want to spend three hours in front of a camera after this exhausting week.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, I think six days after I got back to the States.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_01: But I felt like I had to be there.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_01: I still felt I had to be there.
• 1:11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I was trying to organize a time on her behalf.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: And people I reached out to were saying, Oh, I can't make it, I can't be there.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And then she was telling me, Oh, this person is out, they can't be there.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, this group is getting smaller and smaller.
• 1:11:45
  SPEAKER_01: And anyway, we cancelled the call on the Friday, and I was really relieved.
• 1:11:49
  SPEAKER_01: I was really relieved that we didn't have to do it.
• 1:11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then I got a call from someone who said, I care about you, and I really need to tell you something.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, But do you want me to tell you this?
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I went, Yes.
• 1:12:02
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm living in right now is a nightmare.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: And she told me basically that Betty was not who she said she was, and she had she'd been siphoning our energy, and that this was a cult, and that we'd been conditioned and groomed and separated from our loved ones.
• 1:12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And as she's telling me this, I just kept kept feeling I can breathe, I can breathe, this makes sense, this feels right.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_01: Then it was like it wasn't immediate, yeah, there was anger, but it anger built.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: It took a while for the anger to really come up that how dare she treat us and our loved ones through us in this way.
• 1:12:41
  SPEAKER_01: So when I found out when this person told me what she'd learned, it just felt like I was free.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever had chained me was broken.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I sent her a message because it's in the as the group was getting smaller, she was calling me and messaging me all the time.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think when Robin, you stepped out, she went involved me more.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Can I ask a question really quick?
• 1:13:07
  SPEAKER_03: When you say the group was getting smaller, was that because she was kicking people out or because people were leaving because they didn't want to be a part of it?
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_03: And if people were other people were leaving because they didn't want to be a part of it, did they say anything to you about it?
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_03: And what was your kind of like awareness around all of that?
• 1:13:24
  SPEAKER_01: When I remember she was kicking people out, she would question them and so doubt about them and then talk to everybody else in the group about why that person was actually an infiltrator.
• 1:13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I can't remember what the name she used, but I don't think people were leaving of their own free will.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, I remember one of the turning points was a group call that we all had to debrief after this horror.
• 1:13:48
  SPEAKER_01: And she made the decision not to record it, and I think I know why.
• 1:13:52
  SPEAKER_01: Because those who gathered within 45 seconds, one person she had let her venom out, and she was just so vicious and mean and ripped this poor woman, like, get out.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_01: She said, Get out, you are not a part of this group.
• 1:14:07
  SPEAKER_01: And we were all kind of in shock.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_01: And then she did it again.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: She did it to another woman, a very sweet, gentle energy.
• 1:14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Did anything participate that?
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_03: Did she have a reason for that?
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_03: Or she just decided?
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_01: Robin, you know a bit about this, don't you?
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_05: The whole process from beginning to end on divide and conquer was evaluate each person and decide is uh she for us or is she against us?
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_05: Is she an infiltrator?
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_05: Is she a double agent?
• 1:14:41
  SPEAKER_05: Who else is she working for?
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_05: What else does she know?
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_05: So that was all very, I'll say rational.
• 1:14:49
  SPEAKER_05: There was not venom associated with that.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_05: It wasn't rational, it was calculating.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_05: Really like it was first of all shocking to me.
• 1:15:03
  SPEAKER_05: And then the thing that she would say, whenever there would be this spew of venom, these unrelenting diatribes, afterwards, she would say, Oh, I didn't expect that to happen.
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_05: So now, was there a reason for it?
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_05: I suppose a calculated one.
• 1:15:21
  SPEAKER_05: But then to really be violent with people was something that was very, very shocking to me, to the point where I don't know about you, Alicia, I didn't know what to do.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: I remember being horrified and paralyzed.
• 1:15:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was in shock.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't believe she just there was this being who couldn't even swear because of the low vibration, swearing like nobody's business, and just the hatred and disgust and loathing in her eyes as she was yelling at these women.
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_01: It was really scary.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I still didn't know what to do.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was still, I was still in this kind of spell or in trauma.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it was.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't until this other woman reached out and said, I want to share with you something that I've just learned that.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: And she had asked for the truth to be revealed about Betty, and then she got an answer, and it was truce.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: It was truce.
• 1:16:13
  SPEAKER_01: It was not an ascended being.
• 1:16:15
  SPEAKER_01: This was not somebody who's coming from love, did not have the best interests of anyone else except her own self in mind or in her heart.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, there are things that I haven't shared, like the way she's talking about her own husband and child, and it's horrifying.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_01: When I finally heard she's not who she says she is, this is what she's really been doing.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because I've been having these weird feelings, but suddenly that landed, that felt truce.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_01: I was able to kind of breathe again.
• 1:16:44
  SPEAKER_05: After you got that information, how did you extract yourself?
• 1:16:48
  SPEAKER_05: Because you said that she kept on trying to hook you back in.
• 1:16:51
  SPEAKER_05: So, what was the final, the final, final?
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_01: I was still scared of her.
• 1:16:56
  SPEAKER_01: I realized what she was doing was wanting me to leave my husband, abandon my children, and live with and look after her.
• 1:17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like I knew I couldn't do that and I wasn't gonna do it.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'd already been questioning it before I knew what who she really was.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_01: I finally said, I cannot live like this.
• 1:17:15
  SPEAKER_01: I choose joy, I choose love, and I choose joy.
• 1:17:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'm out.
• 1:17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then she actually responded before I and then blocked her.
• 1:17:23
  SPEAKER_01: I understand, and that was it.
• 1:17:27
  SPEAKER_03: So you said to her, like, you're you're gonna disconnect yourself.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_03: And she said, I understand.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I said, I cannot live like this, and this is not love, this is not joy.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_01: I never actually said to her, You're evil, you've been traumatizing me, you've been doing this.
• 1:17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I never did any of that.
• 1:17:45
  SPEAKER_01: I have since in my own mind, but I was still scared of angering her.
• 1:17:51
  SPEAKER_01: So that was how I extricated myself from the group.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_03: Did she actually say to you that she wanted you to abandon your husband and kids?
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, what she was saying is she's I don't know where I'm gonna live.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_01: She said, I can't live by myself, she can't go to the store, she can't drive, she can't how I'm gonna do this.
• 1:18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, she did ask me to take over all the admin for her business.
• 1:18:13
  SPEAKER_01: She said, I know you're not an administrator, but if you could help me through this bit with my team, because I don't know who to trust, and I trust you, and maybe we could live together until we get through this.
• 1:18:26
  SPEAKER_01: She was definitely trying to get me to leave my husband and leave this location to be with her.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_03: Looking for a host.
• 1:18:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 1:18:35
  SPEAKER_03: Sorry, someone had to say it.
• 1:18:37
  SPEAKER_01: Everything I'm saying, I'm saying it and going, who's gonna believe this?
• 1:18:41
  SPEAKER_01: As I say, it's surreal.
• 1:18:43
  SPEAKER_01: I never thought I would be groomed.
• 1:18:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying I know everything, but I'm sensitive to energy.
• 1:18:49
  SPEAKER_01: I tune in, I pick up on things, and yeah, whenever I picked up on anything around her, I questioned it.
• 1:18:54
  SPEAKER_01: I doubted myself and abdicated my knowingness to her.
• 1:18:57
  SPEAKER_01: She knows more, she knows more than me.
• 1:19:00
  SPEAKER_01: I can't question her.
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's been a big lesson for me, not to ever do that.
• 1:19:07
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone who and anyone who expects that, I do not trust.
• 1:19:12
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do you make sense of all of this as you look back and think about this period of time in your life?
• 1:19:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how do you make sense of it all?
• 1:19:23
  SPEAKER_03: I think this is the question that Robin and I have been trying to answer.
• 1:19:27
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why we decided to do this series of interviews, because we're trying to make sense of it.
• 1:19:32
  SPEAKER_03: So, if you had to make sense of it, what would you say happened from a spiritual perspective, from a personal perspective, from a psychological perspective?
• 1:19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think from a spiritual perspective, I abdicated my own knowingness to someone else.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_01: And she deliberately hijacked, she tried to hijack my gifts, my knowingness, my some of my energies, the things that just come naturally to us that she didn't have.
• 1:19:59
  SPEAKER_05: I would like to say she did not try to.
• 1:20:01
  SPEAKER_05: She hijacked.
• 1:20:02
  SPEAKER_01: She hijacked, yeah.
• 1:20:04
  SPEAKER_01: And there were things that I experienced that I'd read about or in the documentary, or you hear about, and you think, how can somebody ever follow that?
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_01: How can they put up with that?
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_01: How can they tolerate it?
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_01: So now I have a lot of compassion for those who've been groomed, abused, or tortured into this weird place of the Stockholm syndrome, you know, right?
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_01: Where you the person who's actually causing you harm is the person you want to look after and be with and take care of.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_01: I it never made any sense to me.
• 1:20:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a lot more compassion.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I also feel that there are so many blessings that came out of it.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_01: I would not recommend to anyone.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for a blessing, this is how to do it.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I did have awarenesses, I did have knowing, I had gut feelings, I didn't trust them.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_01: So now they were there, they were present, I just wasn't feeling and trusting.
• 1:21:00
  SPEAKER_01: So now I trust them, I pay more attention, and I don't have to justify or try to logic my way as to why I say yes to something or no to something.
• 1:21:10
  SPEAKER_01: I just trust.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if it doesn't make sense to somebody else, it doesn't make sense, it doesn't matter.
• 1:21:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's not my that's not what the path I'm gonna follow anymore, where I'm handing over to somebody else the decisions I make.
• 1:21:23
  SPEAKER_01: One of the gifts is that just trusting myself more.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_01: It was a nightmare, and I really would love to help anybody.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe somebody will listen to this and they'll notice when it starts happening, or somebody's trying to manipulate them or hijack their gifts or bring them into a cult because that's really what it was.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_01: And she actually said that.
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what she was.
• 1:21:50
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 1:21:51
  SPEAKER_05: I've been watching The Vow on HBO Max.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_05: It's one of the documentaries about the Nexium cult.
• 1:21:59
  SPEAKER_05: And it's interesting to watch it from this vantage point.
• 1:22:03
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't know anything about it until I got back to having a conversation with my favorite attorney.
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_05: She said, Oh, it's like Nexium.
• 1:22:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I said, Oh, I said, but this was, you know, I was in business coaching.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_05: She's like, Well, Nexium was a personal development program.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_05: It was executive training.
• 1:22:20
  SPEAKER_05: And so that's what got me started on really exploring Nexium, which was far more, as far as I know, far more extensive than what we were, what we experienced.
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_05: We got like the tip of the iceberg comparatively.
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_05: But one of the things that the people in the documentary were talking about, when they were talking about somebody that they were trying to extract from Nexium, get out of the cold, they were looking at a picture of her.
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_05: She's beautiful.
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_05: Her name's India Oxenberg.
• 1:22:48
  SPEAKER_05: She's got a book that she wrote about it, and there's a lot of information at this point about that particular organization.
• 1:22:55
  SPEAKER_05: But one of the women who was working to extract India from Nexium said, We look at these people and we say, What's wrong with them?
• 1:23:05
  SPEAKER_05: What is their deficit that would create the conditions for them to be at this high level in a cult?
• 1:23:11
  SPEAKER_05: And she said, look at her.
• 1:23:13
  SPEAKER_05: She's beautiful, she's intelligent, she's exactly the kind of person that they would want leading in this organization.
• 1:23:21
  SPEAKER_05: And so I bring this up because when it comes down to the drum I keep beating is if it could happen to us, it could happen to anybody.
• 1:23:29
  SPEAKER_05: And so when we look at the gifts that we have, or the experiences that we have, the education, the training, the awarenesses that we have being sought after for, and this is not just for us, this is for the people listening as well, is that your gifts are sought after.
• 1:23:47
  SPEAKER_05: And sometimes they're sought after by the wrong people.
• 1:23:50
  SPEAKER_05: And uh I think that in the spiritual entrepreneur community, the light leadership community, we have this sort of built-in deficit of not good enough or not enough.
• 1:24:01
  SPEAKER_05: And so we're looking for people who show us that we are enough or who believe in us.
• 1:24:05
  SPEAKER_05: And sometimes we, I can't speak for everybody, but I think that having a sense of belonging, having being understood in a way that nobody else could understand me, those are the things that contributed to this experience.
• 1:24:20
  SPEAKER_05: Do either of you have any thoughts on that?
• 1:24:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was a beautiful explanation.
• 1:24:26
  SPEAKER_01: If it can happen to us, it can happen to anybody.
• 1:24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And that they want the ones who have abilities or skills or talents that can be used to benefit the leader or the organization.
• 1:24:41
  SPEAKER_05: Look at your story.
• 1:24:42
  SPEAKER_05: I didn't know that you'd been reading the Akashic Records for 11 years.
• 1:24:45
  SPEAKER_05: You already probably had your own methodologies and technologies and everything.
• 1:24:50
  SPEAKER_05: So it just brings to mind then you being in that position of leadership in her company, your energy influencing and so on.
• 1:24:58
  SPEAKER_05: Those are the things that you had no idea of or awareness of necessarily.
• 1:25:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_05: Part of the energetic enmeshment that would have happened over the course of many, many years.
• 1:25:09
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm just continuing to reflect on my own experience.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_03: And I do feel like she wanted me close for a long time.
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think she kept me close for a long time.
• 1:25:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the only reason she fired me is because she didn't like how close Robin and I were getting, and she wasn't gonna fire Robin.
• 1:25:31
  SPEAKER_03: So it had to be me, which I'm incredibly grateful for at this point.
• 1:25:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm just thinking like how she really tried very hard to keep me close and make me feel like I was very important and very important to her and all of these things.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_03: Cause I think she there was a reason for that, and that's what I'm reflecting on.
• 1:25:56
  SPEAKER_03: But I'm also just very grateful for me at how it all shook out.
• 1:26:01
  SPEAKER_03: But I do think that she didn't feel comfortable with anybody, like that divide and conquer thing.
• 1:26:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like she didn't like that Robin and I were so close, and she I think she saw that we were forming a connection that could potentially be stronger than whatever she had with us or just her in general.
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't think that was okay with her.
• 1:26:26
  SPEAKER_05: We already had formed the connection.
• 1:26:29
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, we already had.
• 1:26:30
  SPEAKER_05: We already had.
• 1:26:31
  SPEAKER_05: And when jealousy, lack, competition is at the core of the being, it's going to show up in this way.
• 1:26:41
  SPEAKER_05: It's not unlike mean girls, right?
• 1:26:44
  SPEAKER_05: There's a lot of that energy as well.
• 1:26:46
  SPEAKER_05: It's very when I look back at this, these conversations that we've been having, it just reminds me of like the B student who makes friends with the smartest kids in the classroom and then copies off their work and makes themselves look as good as possible until the final reveal when she can't carry her own fucking luggage, for example.
• 1:27:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like the wizard of Oz, you know, the man behind the curtain.
• 1:27:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I go back to my experience first off in Santa Fe before the retreat even started when I was writing, and what came through was beware of the charlatans and the frauds.
• 1:27:22
  SPEAKER_05: Little did I know.
• 1:27:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I guess just to kind of like wrap it up, Alicia, how do you feel like this has informed your work today or what you're doing today, and how you just desire to move forward and move through life now, after all of this?
• 1:27:40
  SPEAKER_01: It really has allowed me to trust my own knowingness, my own awarenesses.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_01: And what I love is helping people realize their own gifts and what they are here to do, what they're wonderful at, and to own that and honor that.
• 1:27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's made me more passionate.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_01: To help others live to their fullest and their brightest.
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_01: So rather than I think what the agenda might have been was to diminish my abilities to do that or my desire, it's actually activated more of it and to never abdicate my knowingness to someone else, to always come back to what feels right to me and honor that.
• 1:28:21
  SPEAKER_05: One of my favorite memories of you, Alicia, is when we're on that plane.
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_05: And you guys, Alicia is, and I say this from my heart of hearts, is a guardian of the Akashic Records.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_05: Of course, there are going to be others, but truly, truly, she has this wisdom about the Akashic Records that is astounding to me.
• 1:28:42
  SPEAKER_05: And so in some ways, it makes no, it's no surprise that you would have been, I'll use quotes, recruited to be part of this other system when you actually have your own.
• 1:28:53
  SPEAKER_05: But can you just share with us the question that I asked?
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_05: What is it that we need to know from the Akashic Records right now?
• 1:29:00
  SPEAKER_05: Can you just share with us?
• 1:29:02
  SPEAKER_05: Because this is your wisdom.
• 1:29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:29:04
  SPEAKER_01: I might not remember it exactly, but I remember that moment.
• 1:29:07
  SPEAKER_01: I remember you looking me in the eyes, rubbing me a big, beautiful, full-on, bright eyes.
• 1:29:13
  SPEAKER_01: And it was that we're not here to reference or consult the records, we're here to write and create through the records.
• 1:29:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the records are a tool of creation.
• 1:29:23
  SPEAKER_01: They're not simply a tool, not simply, but yeah, they're not here just to be a reference.
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_01: And what did I do?
• 1:29:30
  SPEAKER_01: And how did that work out?
• 1:29:32
  SPEAKER_01: And why is it?
• 1:29:33
  SPEAKER_01: No, use them to create.
• 1:29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because we're creators.
• 1:29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And this is a way the akasha is the energy, is the etheric substance of life.
• 1:29:44
  SPEAKER_01: So the records are not outside of us, they're in us, they're as us, they're they're here, right here, and we're writing in them all the time, but more often than than not unconsciously.
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I think the invitation for us is to now use this gift and create consciously through our records.
• 1:30:05
  SPEAKER_01: The records then record what we've written.
• 1:30:07
  SPEAKER_05: Thank you for sharing that.
• 1:30:09
  SPEAKER_05: And I know that I for sure can feel just the authenticity and truth of that.
• 1:30:14
  SPEAKER_05: Elise, do you want to bring us home for today?
• 1:30:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, well, I just want to say thank you so much for being willing to share your story and just be vulnerable.
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's not easy, but I just really value your contribution to this and this exploration of trying to figure out what the hell just happened here.
• 1:30:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's going to be really helpful for everyone who listens.
• 1:30:40
  SPEAKER_03: It was definitely helpful for me and hopefully for you as part of your healing process.
• 1:30:46
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much for being here.
• 1:30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:30:49
  SPEAKER_01: It is an honor and thank you for creating such a safe space for us to explore this today.
• 1:30:54
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 1:30:56
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:30:58
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• 1:31:02
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• 1:31:06
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• 1:31:14
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• 1:31:19
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• 1:31:23
  SPEAKER_02: See you next time.