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What I've Learnt - Ling Ang · WHAT I'VE LEARNT

• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: The filmmaker Ling Aang has been documenting her dreams through written records across the span of three years.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Combining journals with her photographs from the conscious world, she brings to life these personal subconscious narratives.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Familiar landmarks turning into the locations of a sci-fi fantasy, recurring themes revolving around her childhood, hedonism, and the afterlife.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: A visual artist with over 10 years of experience across a diverse array of international productions, her work is rooted in a documentary language exploring contemporary issues with a strong narrative format.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Lynn has kept a written archive of lucid dreaming over the last few years, which has manifested into large-scale experimental installations from Melbourne to London.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you were asked to describe a philanthropist, what would you say?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: You'd probably say an older person, either retired or at the top of their field, with most importantly millions or billions of dollars to spare.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: But young Australians such as Melbourne Lingang are challenging the stereotype.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: In her 30s, the artist and documentary filmmaker has made significant donations to a number of Melbourne-based organisations and campaigns.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: She recently donated$80,000 to the Melbourne International Film Festival to help it embrace extended reality technology and also contributed$500,000 to the restoration of the Capitol Theatre on Swanson Street in 2018.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: She also funded scholarship for her Alma Mata RMIT University.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: Emerging technologies are now being used to develop content for further cinematic projects and installations.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Using her skills in filmmaking, photography, and a push into extended reality by manipulating 3D scans and virtual environments.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So Ling, welcome to the What I've Learned podcast.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so happy to have you on board.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: You are just so fascinating with your creativity, your philanthropy, and your photography.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_01: So can't wait to have a chat and hear what you're doing.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to speak to you too.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Pleasure.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe we'll start with um talk to me about you, you know, at the moment it's photo 22, 2022 in Melbourne, where there's this most incredible avalanche of photography all around the city.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: Can you give me a little bit of insight into the exhibition and your role in the exhibition?
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so Melbourne hasn't had an international photography festival for a number of years now.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: I've been part of the international photography scene for most of my career.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: My background is in documentary film, uh, but I began collaborating with a lot of documentary photographers, journalists based from New York to Europe to London, um, and would be making multimedia productions with them.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: My sister is also a documentary photographer, and we've been collaborating since I was 13.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: I am now 31.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And our most recent project is maybe our third uh biggest collaboration.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's called Three Degrees of Freedom.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: Three Degrees of Freedom is exploring self-optimization, self-surveillance.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's looking into, you know, the millions of self-portraits we know as selfies that is circulating in our world on the internet.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: We look into the algorithms, uh, we use deep fake, and I also use some augmented reality for the installation.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it's a series of photos currently on installation at Supernormal right now on public display.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And these were some photographs uh that we had been making in and out of lockdown uh since October last year.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I mean, my sister's last project was surrounding motherhood.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: And after that, she wanted to do something a little bit less serious.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And she was looking into, well, what have you been doing, Ling?
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_00: And at the beginning of the pandemic, when a lot of us were at home during lockdown, um, a lot of our film industry where we couldn't go out to film anymore, be on set, and shoot other people's stories, we looked at upscaling, finding new ways to tell stories.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was um some of the filmmakers that started uh learning how to make 3D, uh build 3D environments, virtual production.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd been messing around with VR, AR, hence extended reality.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so this is also our documentation of the process, you know, the blurring of the lines between our digital and our physical self, how much of that is separate, um, how much of that digital self reinforms the physical.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: It's an interesting reflection.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, really, it's the ultimate self-reflection at a time which has been very dystopian, where we've had to really, as you say, the surreality of our experience.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: You've tried to capture it.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you obviously I know from your history, you've often uh reflected and captivated your dreams, which we will talk about because that's also interesting.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a history of you self-reflecting, but in an ethereal, somewhat esoteric way.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: And really the photography and this exhibition and this particular project you've worked you're working on with your sister must be quite an interesting reflection of a time that no one could have possibly predicted.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I suppose being immersed.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: I love being deep, deep in the world.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, sometimes I get stuck in that own bubble, but I also surround myself with people who aren't part of that, so they quickly pop it.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we need those people, don't we?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I mean, you know, I guess, you know, that also goes into a lot of the work that I support, um, where I think, you know, there's very few who are also then practicing um to be able to find the plot holes in the practice, in the limitations of the resources provided to the people that need them, for them to be able to create the stories that we're looking to help propel.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that's also how I like to practice a lot.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um I can see that I love the way that you and and I mentioned in the introduction, you have been a major philanthropist and supporter of the arts on many fronts, but I love the way that you, as well as going on your own journey, you make a point of also supporting others on theirs.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: And that seems to be your collaborative approach, seems to be both in practice, but also making sure, and obviously funding's been a huge issue in the arts through this period, but clearly historically, you were already on board doing that.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, whether it's your contribution to the Capital Theatre or whether it's your contribution in other ways, you certainly, I suppose, put your money where your mouth is, but you also put your heart and your soul there too.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, where did this come from and where did you how did this come to be?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: We're like we were always brought up um with that ideology through um our family, especially my mother.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, my mother has been a philanthropist since I can remember.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, growing up, you know, that that word was not used, you know, she always just wanted to give back and you know, kind of brought uh me and my sister up as always having to give back and being very grateful for um our circumstances, but also then seeing that you know, other people's circumstances and you know um how else we could help if we could.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, I mean, you know, from there then I would start well, you know, in from the beginning of the film industry, you know, um from my education RMIT, you know, that was in uh 2010, where I was looking for more culturally diverse stories uh amongst my peers.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's when I started my first scholarship with the university in helping support this kind of work amongst students.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I started getting into the industry, looking at, okay, well, even if we are creating these kinds of stories, you know, what are the platforms to tell these stories?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Are there spaces for audience to gather, to learn, um, to spark ideas?
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what led into my support for the Capitol Theatre.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there it leads into okay, what about the distribution and you know, what is the future of you know film?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: And um, how do we also learn about what is happening internationally if we are you know located in Australia and we are quite far?
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I think that's also naturally what led into my support for Melbourne International Film Festival.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you know, and I'm very involved with the Melbourne International Film Festival too, and I'm a journalist and a filmmaker, and I totally resonate a lot of the things that you're reflecting because really it's about storytelling.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the reality is if we can't get the audience to hear the story, then that's what you're you're referring to.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I do it through various mediums, but you definitely have found a way to explore that notion of we have to support whether it's the theatres or whether it's the films that need support.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: And we all know how costly films can be to make.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: So then the photography is also another really interesting medium.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it sounds to me like you have you are open, you sound like quite open to different creative outlets and resources and collaborations.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think that's been pivotal to your capacity to grow and expand your abilities?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Definitely.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think in the same way where some of our favorite directors maybe will only release three feature films in a decade or so, you know, where I guess on one hand, concentrating on the one medium can quote unquote lead us to master it.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes we do hit, you know, a mental block where I struggle with trying to express myself through that one medium.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so freeing when I realized that you know I could try and experiment with other mediums if I wanted to further express myself in that way, to tell or if not to share other people's stories through other mediums.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, yeah, with my project surrounding lucid dreaming, there's still no camera that can go inside my heads yet to record some of the scenes that we could remember.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what led me into writing.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: Writing was never my strong point, but I started developing it as I started writing them every day.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And now I'm up to I think 1,200 written accounts since 2018.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's definitely developed.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then from there, you know, wanting to, you know, see that visually on the wall by hand so other people can walk through it, you know, in the same way, I guess, you know, if we wish that people could walk through films, you know, that is also the exploration that we can do through augmented or virtual reality.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: It is like I was I was looking at you know some of the um material that you have created, the notion of journaling your dreams, the bravery of recalling and honoring that memory is actually, I mean, as a writer, I understand how much effort that must take to actually take the time to, and I'm assuming that in order to recall your dreams and journal them, um, you do that pretty much when you wake up, or how do you make sure that what is reality and what is memory?
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like often you'll go, did I dream that?
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is that did that actually happen?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Or did I dream it?
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: Or like how do you It's as soon as I wake up, you know, and um it I won't answer phone calls, I can't have any conversations, I have to write them then and there.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sometimes I would, you know, write all the dot points if it was in the middle of the night that I would remember, so I could try to go back to sleep.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then um the next day, if I wanted to kind of flesh it out a little bit more, um, because I would recall some of the details.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I mean, you know, I guess going back onto you know, um, what is memory and then what is reality, I mean, it is is still any any recount is still my perspective.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, it's a lens, isn't it?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, anyway.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that's true.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's that is actually true.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I suppose what you're saying is it really almost is immaterial, whether it's a reflection or memory, or your lens on that experience.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And your souvenirs of sleep is so just for our listeners, can you just expand a little bit on what that is and how that came to be?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's referencing obviously you honoring your dreams.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: I coined the term souvenirs of sleep after um my first physical installation of the work.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that was in 2019, uh, that was built at my sister and her husband's uh art space, L'Espace.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I took over one of the studios and they asked me what I am going to do in there, and I said, I'll do whatever I want to do in there.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to see what at that point I had 400 uh written accounts, and I wanted to see what did 400 dreams look like across all the walls.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to invite viewers to come in to read the dreams, and I mean to also feel like they could feel comfortable with their vulnerabilities.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's some I mean, recounts that are quite confronting, very private scenes, and I mean, especially kind of as a as a woman, these are not, I guess, usual interpretations into dreaming.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: When I first started examining the world of dreaming a little bit more and going to readings, all the references that were given to me um were from wonderful male writers, but you know, I thought be more curious to see, you know, what could a recount from you know, in the modern day pretense, you know, as a woman uh could be.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that then that led me into my larger installation for NGV Design Week, which was a nod towards the film industry as well.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, with you know the early practicing of virtual production.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was fortunate enough to um go to Alex Theatre and experiment um with their virtual production studio that they had taken the chance to turn into during lockdown.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_00: It was a ballet studio before that.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then they and then they've um built all these LED screens for us to experiment with 3D environments.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's really quite exciting to see the sort of the things that are coming up in terms of creativity.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think something that you have tapped is this endless willingness to push out and to explore new mediums.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: For example, what you've just outlined in the Alex Theatre just sounds really exciting and interesting to explore.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you think we all dream and do you think creativity is linked to our access to the unconscious?
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I grew up, my father's a psychiatrist, okay?
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: So we grew up like at 12 with him going, and what did you dream last night?
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we'd all sit there and talk about our dreams.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: It was very unusual upbringing in the sense that there was a very great honouring of dreams as a means of understanding oneself.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it was just, you know, not your average breakfast off before school.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: We'd often, you know, and I remember just being very excited to talk to him about those, those things because often, you know, and obviously it come, you know, he'd come from an understanding with Jungian views of dreams, and there's a whole lot of, as you know, complex psychiatric and and philosophical elements to interpreting dreams.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: How many of those constructs do you apply to yourself and what revelations did you encounter on this journey?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: It it's, I mean, I over the last month there's been a lot of heavy rain in my dreams.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and you know, I think after the years of understanding and breaking down, um, it's definitely helped me center myself a lot more, treat the people around me way better, uh, because I understood from after waking up and recalling those dreams that those were my feelings surrounding that situation.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then hopefully that then as the next situation would come forward, that I could, you know, detach myself a little bit from applying too much, you know, kind of say negative emotion um before approaching the situation.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: So you're saying you can learn from we can learn from our dreams.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: Is that is that what you're saying?
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: And that that helped you, it helped inform your response to things in reality.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I think if we were writing a recount of our day-to-day, the same way as we're normally trained, um, to write journals of today I woke up, I went to someone's birthday, I ate this piece of cake, I went to sleep at seven.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: You don't really know how you can't how you felt.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: You would assume that you had a lot of fun at that birthday party.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_00: But if you dreamt that, you know, there was tidal waves and sharks, I mean, you that's way more interpretive that something is not right.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, the heavy rain in your dreams of the last month, what is what did you determine that was a reflection of?
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, mixed between um a lot on my mind, um, especially in and out between the floodings um that's been happening in this country, a combination between, I guess, a lot of the work that I've been trying to concentrate on, um, whilst a lot of the issues, I guess, our country and our world are tackling right now.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, you know, as an artist, kind of have feeling that kind of pressure of, you know, trying to make more work that you know is activizing towards um those issues.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've been having a lot of that discussion lately where I feel that you know, a lot of our work can be so metaphorical and very beautiful in that sense, but you know, we have a lot of issues that need urgent attention.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so maybe the work needs to be a bit more urgent.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you feel a responsibility.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you seem to certainly with your philanthropy and your donations, they indicate a sense of duty and a sense of honoring what needs to be done and responsibility to contribute where and how you can.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_01: But you're also saying you feel a responsibility to reflect certain issues in our wider community.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's initially in setting up the platforms, you know, it's it's it's very open in inviting different creatives to approach different themes and topics and in hopes that then the work that is uh produced, you know, then will lead to inspire and affect change.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in seeing the way I guess you know the world is happening, I feel that wow, like every year we almost have to kind of narrow it down a little bit more and help maybe urge um you know that change a little bit further.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah, if you kind of um have it too open sometimes, yeah.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we can get very lost in, you know, going into, okay, here's the beautiful world of my dreams.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess people then going in to, you know, kind of unravel all that, it will take so much time.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, I'm I'm wondering whether or not we have enough of that time to escalate, change.
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I understand.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: What you're saying is the priorities change as the world changes.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: So what might become paramount for you in a particular year might change the next year, depending on what's happening in the world around you.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: How do you decide, just on a patronage perspective, how did you decide, for example, to donate the 500,000 to the Capitol Theatre, other than what you reflected on before, uh, which is you feel that there needs to be venues or places and spaces that people can come to have that experience?
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_01: How hard is it to make those decisions?
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you've been a great supporter of the Melbourne Film Festival.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is it difficult to um, I suppose, prioritize?
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much need.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think, you know, especially with there's a lot of a new wave of philanthropists and if not um, you know, new generation of supporters across different issues that you know they want to be a part of it.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they don't want to just donate the funds to the causes and turn away and tick that off of you know their resume of goodwill in that day.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, um I mean I personally realize that you know it's not enough to then just help set up that platform.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's still about then helping create that network because everyone is very busy in what they do and you know can lose sight of some of the other elements that might need to come together to help create that idea, um, to bringing people together.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Together to affecting change.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I do spend a lot of my time as well, you know, trying to help see out what I start with a lot of these projects as well.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, I mean, it still then also goes back into PR of whether or not people know that these things exist.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: You mean as in that these entities or these spaces exist, you mean?
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or these, you know, like for example, the Melbourne Film Festival obviously it couldn't go ahead for two years properly.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's been quite devastating now that we're getting back into cinemas and there's a sense that as filmmakers, there's, I mean, now there's so many new films coming out, there's a great sense that there's a rejuvenation.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_01: There is an air of that.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's still going to take time, but I think we're all feeling a little bit positive and excited that, you know, we can attend.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I went to The Drover's Wife recently, which is a great new film, which was Leah Purcell wrote, directed, produced, and acted in, you know, and you just think this is exciting.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's still there.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because actually, I think as artists, writers, filmmakers, what you realize is even a two-year pandemic, which has been quite devastating, in a way, we're everything's still rising up again.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: There's some comfort in that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you feel that.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I mean, the two years definitely, you know, wiped a whole slate clean.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if not, put a lot of creators at home with all their ideas and force them to really process everything that they have learned in that time out, um, and then to be able to come back out of um lockdowns and to make all this incredible work, but also to be more concise of how we're going to do things and how are we going to do things better.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that has been some really beautiful things that have been coming out.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, there, yeah, I'm very excited that there are so many great films coming out right now as well, and that we'll be able to come back together for a physical film festival this year.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because yeah, it's it's it's about that energy of everybody there going to see it together and to discuss it.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's those conversations that come and happen.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what I was kind of referring to.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's, you know, even if you have that platform, it's about the people, then the follow-up discussion being able to have, you know, those discussions and um engagement.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's really about shared experience, isn't it?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, when I, you know, I was interviewing somebody who owns a cinema and I was very involved with her on this project, and and she said there is just nothing like a room full of shared experience.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's the universal, you know, or Khan, which is on today, you know, the Khan Film Festival, everyone's there swanning around, and you know, you just sort of think, oh, okay, the the world is getting right, you know, because you feel like that's just been there forever.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: And and the thought that we don't have those, that those facilities and those great spaces, as you refer to, could somehow not exist is just hard to fathom.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And to see them all back sharing those films, those stories is very exciting.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I think you play a major part in that, in the work that you're doing, both personally, but also in your philanthropy.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's a lot of um hard work and energy that goes into making those decisions about where and how to give and support.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: But you seem to have distilled that.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's not just my duty to do it.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I really love doing it obsessively, where you know it it's very blurred between um work and you know leisure.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um the ultimate artist, the true artist.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: This is this is the true artist, where it all you know combines into a sense of creativity, but also of community.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to thank you so much, Ling.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: You've been wonderful to chat to, and I'm very excited to see what you do next.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: If people want to see your exhibition, it's at Super Normal, is that right?
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, on Super Normal and the Alpha 60 screen.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: And the Alpha 60 screen is at the NGB?
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's on uh Flinders Lane as well.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's so exciting.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna go and have a look because I haven't seen it yet, and I'm very inspired by all that you're doing.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for your time, and I look forward to seeing you soon.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: Nice to meet you.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for listening.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: The What I've Learned podcast will now be coming to you weekly with new episodes released every Tuesday.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm blessed to have so many wonderful guests coming on the show.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: So check out my What I've Learned Instagram for updates.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: Meanwhile, stay tuned, kind, and curious.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Love Dev.