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Killer Wife? Mom Writes Grief Book After Hubby’s Death, Now Charged With Murder! · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grease, the so called Moscow Mule
0:19
Speaker 1: victims wife believe she was about to break in three
0:25
Speaker 1: point six million dollars life insurance.
0:30
Speaker 2: Just let that sink in three point six million.
0:35
Speaker 1: Dollars in her back pocket, minus the funeral expenses for
0:44
Speaker 1: her husband. That is.
0:47
Speaker 2: Thanks for being with us. I'm Nancy Gracion.
0:50
Speaker 1: Joining me is a renowned expert professor of forensics at
0:55
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on
0:59
Speaker 1: Amazon and Starving You hit series Body Bags podcast. Joseph
1:04
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan Joscott, thank you for taking time away from
1:09
Speaker 1: your teaching and your research at Jacksonville State University to
1:13
Speaker 1: join us. I'm talking about the victim in this case,
1:17
Speaker 1: Eric Richians. I almost said he never saw it coming,
1:23
Speaker 1: but you know what he did. There have been two
1:25
Speaker 1: prior occasions. Joe Scott Morgan that he at least one
1:30
Speaker 1: of the occasions laughingly said, Hey, I think she's trying
1:34
Speaker 1: to kill me for the money man. Well, according to prosecutors,
1:38
Speaker 1: she did. I want to talk about multiple attempts on
1:44
Speaker 1: Eric Richand's life, and it's not just about him, Joe Scott,
1:50
Speaker 1: It's about his three little boys that are left behind
1:55
Speaker 1: three boys nine, seven and five at the time daddy
2:03
Speaker 1: is murdered. If Mommy's convicted, they will be orphans. Now
2:11
Speaker 1: lay out the facts to me as you understand them, please.
2:15
Speaker 2: The wife had Forrey Richins.
2:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, had agreed to prepare a celbratory drink for
2:24
Speaker 3: mister Richards and it was, you know, a Moscow mule.
2:28
Speaker 3: I was actually just looking at the recipe for it, Nancy.
2:31
Speaker 1: Yes, I looked it up. It's ginger beer, which right,
2:35
Speaker 1: do you know what? I found out A lot of
2:37
Speaker 1: drinks that claim that their ginger are not so I
2:40
Speaker 1: was looking up drinks that had real ginger in it
2:43
Speaker 1: for my son John David. You know, he's been nauseous,
2:48
Speaker 1: had a whole lot of issues because he had that.
2:51
Speaker 1: He was at track and field just just got to think.
2:53
Speaker 1: I told you this and some kids practicing discus, and
2:56
Speaker 1: some kid came up behind him and started practicing discus.
2:59
Speaker 1: That's like being at a shooting range and somebody standing
3:02
Speaker 1: right in front of you. No. Anyway, he got hit
3:05
Speaker 1: in the head with a steel discus level three concussion.
3:11
Speaker 1: You live through that with me. Anyway, I wanted something
3:14
Speaker 1: with ginger to help him with nausea, and I had
3:17
Speaker 1: to research online what drinks actually really have ginger in them,
3:22
Speaker 1: and I found ginger beer non alcoholic, and he loves
3:26
Speaker 1: it and it did work. But it's really strong tasting
3:31
Speaker 1: and that is the main ingredient in a Moscow mule.
3:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, ginger beer. You know, it's got lime juice in it.
3:38
Speaker 3: And you know, for the alcohol version, two ounces of vodka.
3:44
Speaker 3: But you know what it doesn't include, Nancy, it's fentanyl fentyl. Yeah,
3:48
Speaker 3: and in this particular case, his drink.
3:51
Speaker 2: You're right about that. You're right about that, professor.
3:54
Speaker 3: It was it was laced with fentanyl, which you know
3:57
Speaker 3: is an absolute scourge on our country.
4:00
Speaker 1: Can I tell you something before you get on the scourge? Yeah,
4:04
Speaker 1: it's evil genius what she did right there, even though she.
4:08
Speaker 2: Of course got caught.
4:09
Speaker 1: But nobody is going to taste grind up fentanyl when
4:14
Speaker 1: it's mixed in with ginger beer. It's yeah, ginger, I
4:20
Speaker 1: guess it's ginger beer and vodka and line, you're not
4:24
Speaker 1: gonna taste it.
4:26
Speaker 3: No, it's gonna be easily masked. And for those that
4:30
Speaker 3: don't know, you know, fentanyl is it falls into the
4:32
Speaker 3: opiate family. Which you know, you begin to think of
4:35
Speaker 3: things like morphine and heroine and all of that.
4:37
Speaker 1: But I think of Dorothy and the Wizard of Oz. Yeah,
4:42
Speaker 1: skipping across the big field of poppies from which you
4:45
Speaker 1: make opiate's heroin and they all fall asleep.
4:50
Speaker 3: Yeah, and then they're awakened by snow, which is another
4:53
Speaker 3: interesting aspect, but we won't go down that road.
4:56
Speaker 2: But with I think I already did.
4:58
Speaker 3: But go ahead with this particular case though, you begin
5:02
Speaker 3: to think about, you know, how do you get access
5:04
Speaker 3: to this, well, fentanyl is it's just it's like a
5:08
Speaker 3: massive infection in our country. It's you can come across it.
5:12
Speaker 3: It's you know, it's been used as as pain rely
5:16
Speaker 3: for years and years, but it's it's a synthetic substance.
5:20
Speaker 3: It's it's created in a laboratory, and it's obviously lethal.
5:25
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. Yes, yes, similar in the same fashion, in
5:28
Speaker 3: the same fashion, But.
5:32
Speaker 2: Is not actually fentanyl, right.
5:35
Speaker 3: No, it's not. But it falls within the same the
5:38
Speaker 3: same family of opiates, if you will, so the base
5:42
Speaker 3: at a base elemental level, it's going to have many
5:45
Speaker 3: of the same effects. And we we all know, you
5:48
Speaker 3: know what an overdose, say for instance, of heroin or
5:51
Speaker 3: morphine can do where it begins to suppress system. People
5:55
Speaker 3: can go into a Komoto state, and it's all dependent
5:58
Speaker 3: upon how much of this that they're exposed to in
6:02
Speaker 3: their system, and it can kill you. It can send
6:04
Speaker 3: you into cardiac arrest.
6:06
Speaker 1: Because everything goes to sleep, including your brain and your
6:09
Speaker 1: lungs and your heart.
6:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does. It's a particularly nasty way to die.
6:14
Speaker 3: From this perspective is that what happens is that the
6:19
Speaker 3: mechanism here, it leads to a congestive failure and the
6:24
Speaker 3: lungs get very, very heavy. You have to struggle, you
6:27
Speaker 3: mean full of fluid, full of fluid. Many times we'll
6:31
Speaker 3: actually see in cases involving Od's you'll actually begin to
6:37
Speaker 3: see a similar finding to what you have in drownings.
6:54
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace od on fentanyl. How does
7:00
Speaker 1: that make your lungs heavy? What do you mean by
7:02
Speaker 1: heavy lungs? I've never heard that before.
7:05
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's a congestive failure where your lungs are
7:09
Speaker 3: beginning to fill up with fluid as a result of
7:12
Speaker 3: not being able to produce or to actually reap or
7:17
Speaker 3: breathe to circulate oxygen through your body, so they progressively
7:21
Speaker 3: become more and more heavy. As a matter of fact,
7:24
Speaker 3: at autopsy, you know, we.
7:26
Speaker 1: I was just going to ask you, what do the
7:27
Speaker 1: lungs look like at autopsy?
7:31
Speaker 3: Well, when you touch them, they're they're very tense, heavy,
7:36
Speaker 3: you can tell that they're congested. When we take them out,
7:40
Speaker 3: they're going to weigh they're going to weigh, in some circumstances,
7:44
Speaker 3: almost twice their normal their normal weight. So you figure
7:48
Speaker 3: if a normal male's lung adult male is say four
7:52
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty grams, that's on the right lung, which
7:57
Speaker 3: of course is the is the heaviest because it has
7:59
Speaker 3: three lows.
8:00
Speaker 2: Wait, can you increase increase.
8:02
Speaker 3: That number by two? Well, grams, that's that's that's the
8:05
Speaker 3: weight that we measure it in as opposed.
8:07
Speaker 1: I know, but can you can you convert that to ounces?
8:13
Speaker 2: Pounds?
8:17
Speaker 1: Not off the top of Oh, dear lord, did you
8:20
Speaker 1: say four hundred and fifty grams? Yeah, four hundred and
8:23
Speaker 1: fifty How many pounds? How many ounces? It's four hundred
8:29
Speaker 1: and fifty grams. Can believe you four hundred and fifty
8:34
Speaker 1: grams is equal to thirty five point twenty seven ounces. Wait, yes,
8:44
Speaker 1: something like that, just under a pound, just under a pound.
8:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know there's sixteen what's sixteen ounces and
8:52
Speaker 3: a pound? I think, yes, Yeah, it's they're very very heavy. Well,
8:57
Speaker 3: multiply that by two and you'll get the So it
9:01
Speaker 3: increases by that factor. So essentially you have an individual
9:05
Speaker 3: that is compromise their airways compromise. It's almost like a drowning,
9:10
Speaker 3: if you will. And guess what happens many times with
9:13
Speaker 3: these individuals. You'll see this kind of frothy, ademitous cone.
9:17
Speaker 3: It's pink. It looks like the head of a beer,
9:19
Speaker 3: only it's pink. And it'll begin to produce. Out of
9:22
Speaker 3: the nose and out of the mouth.
9:24
Speaker 1: You exhale pink froth, which is the fluid from the
9:30
Speaker 1: lungs mixed with blood particles.
9:33
Speaker 3: Yeah, it'll be tinged with blood and that's that's what
9:35
Speaker 3: gives it that kind of pink here.
9:37
Speaker 1: So let me cut through the heavy lungs and the
9:42
Speaker 1: frothy blood.
9:45
Speaker 2: At the nose and mouth, because you know what that you, you.
9:52
Speaker 1: Joe Scott, are why we need death investigators and medical
9:55
Speaker 1: exam or medical examers just take the stand because a
9:58
Speaker 1: lot of people when they hear this what happened to
10:02
Speaker 1: Eric Richards. They went, oh, she put fentanyl in his
10:06
Speaker 1: moscow mule and he just went to sleep and never
10:10
Speaker 1: woke up.
10:11
Speaker 2: That's not what happened.
10:12
Speaker 1: You basically have internal drowning and you're trying to breathe
10:18
Speaker 1: and the bloody froth's coming out of your nose in
10:21
Speaker 1: your mouth, and that's what happens.
10:24
Speaker 3: Yes, it's an absolutely horrific death, Nancy. And he would
10:28
Speaker 3: have felt the self slipping away, you know, this kind
10:31
Speaker 3: of uncontrollable dizziness. There would have been disorientation and all along,
10:38
Speaker 3: and you don't know what his level of awareness would
10:41
Speaker 3: have been. It would have been slipping away, but there
10:43
Speaker 3: would have been real strugglings as he was there and
10:47
Speaker 3: you were witnessing this, Nancy. In from her perspective, she
10:51
Speaker 3: could have seen him, her own husband, by the way,
10:54
Speaker 3: struggling to take up air, to intake air in order
10:58
Speaker 3: for it to process, and his blood his brain is
11:01
Speaker 3: actually screaming out, I need oxygen, I need oxygen, and
11:05
Speaker 3: there was nothing, nothing there for him to uptake at
11:08
Speaker 3: that point in top and the drug itself is pressing
11:11
Speaker 3: him deeper and deeper and deeper into this Komato State
11:15
Speaker 3: till eventually, eventually he's going to go into cardio respiporia REPS.
11:20
Speaker 1: You know, Joe Scott, I why did I have to
11:24
Speaker 1: have some type of a minor surgery? Anyway, they put
11:30
Speaker 1: me under, and the last thing I thought about I
11:33
Speaker 1: visualized John, David, my son, Lucy, my daughter, David, my husband,
11:41
Speaker 1: and then everything went black, and I'm just thinking about
11:48
Speaker 1: his last Moment's the victim here? Because you know what,
11:50
Speaker 1: Joe Scott and I am guilty of this. You know,
11:56
Speaker 1: you and I have done it together. We deal with
12:00
Speaker 1: death and murder and the most horrific acts that people
12:05
Speaker 1: commit on each other. And it's heavy to carry around.
12:13
Speaker 1: So sometimes we laugh, laugh about stupid criminals like you
12:25
Speaker 1: murder your husband and then you go on TV to
12:30
Speaker 1: sell your children's grief book talking about how much you're
12:35
Speaker 1: grieving about the husband that you.
12:38
Speaker 2: Killed, the irony of that.
12:43
Speaker 1: You know, when criminals leave a trail a mile why
12:47
Speaker 1: we can sit back and ha ha.
12:50
Speaker 2: But when you.
12:51
Speaker 1: Describe what this victim went through, and I just wonder if.
13:01
Speaker 2: His last thoughts were about.
13:04
Speaker 1: His little children, Carter, Ashton and Weston, three very little
13:11
Speaker 1: boys that let's just be brutally honest to Scott.
13:16
Speaker 2: You got one that's five.
13:17
Speaker 1: By the time he's twenty one, he probably won't even
13:19
Speaker 1: remember very much about Daddy at all. He's gonna end
13:24
Speaker 1: up being raised by relatives or someone that adopts them.
13:32
Speaker 1: I wonder if those were the last thoughts that Eric
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Speaker 1: Richand's had. And I wanna talk to you now, not
13:42
Speaker 1: necessarily know more about the cod and what he endured,
13:47
Speaker 1: but about the trail, the electronic trail, and the evidentiary
13:56
Speaker 1: trail that this woman left behind. Okay, and I want
14:02
Speaker 1: to start with something I really love. Of course, there's
14:05
Speaker 1: text messages. There's her buying nine hundred dollars worth of
14:09
Speaker 1: fentanyl before Valentine's Day, where he had another similar incident.
14:15
Speaker 1: He had food and beverage with his wife and then
14:19
Speaker 1: he had a horrible allergic reaction and had to use
14:23
Speaker 1: benadera and an EpiPen and he somehow miraculously lived. So,
14:29
Speaker 1: based on text message, she goes back to the doper
14:33
Speaker 1: who happens to be a CI confidential informant and says, hey,
14:37
Speaker 1: I need another nine hundred bucks of fentanyl. Give me
14:40
Speaker 1: the Michael Jackson stuff. That time, right after she buys
14:46
Speaker 1: more fentanyl. He dies a fentanyl overdose, and they're Mormon.
14:51
Speaker 1: My Mormon friends do not even drink chocolate milk because
14:54
Speaker 1: they think it's a stimulant, which it is much less fentanyl.
15:00
Speaker 1: This guy was not on fentanyl, and he had five
15:03
Speaker 1: times a lethal dosage of fentanyl in his system. But
15:09
Speaker 1: there's the text messages back and forth to the CI
15:12
Speaker 1: timed during his last two leading up to his last
15:16
Speaker 1: two murder attempts on his life, her last two murder
15:20
Speaker 1: attempts on his life.
15:22
Speaker 2: There was also a third.
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Speaker 1: Attempt when they went to Greece and he's with her
15:26
Speaker 1: again and he has a horrible medical reaction after having
15:31
Speaker 1: food and beverage with her, and he actually calls his
15:35
Speaker 1: sister in the States and has the sister changed.
15:42
Speaker 2: His will. He changed his will. Now we know.
15:47
Speaker 1: That he also had his life insurance policy changed because
15:51
Speaker 1: his wife, expecting the three point six million dollars after
15:55
Speaker 1: his death, had changed the life insurance policy beneficiary to
16:00
Speaker 1: her and not his business partner. He found out and
16:03
Speaker 1: fixed that so she didn't get that time stories with
16:19
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. So there's three attempts on his life. I
16:23
Speaker 1: want to talk about the text messages and specifically her
16:27
Speaker 1: phone she talked too much. She told cops the night
16:32
Speaker 1: of the death of her husband that her phone had
16:35
Speaker 1: been plugged up in their bedroom and she had not
16:37
Speaker 1: been using it. But then, as you know Joe Scott,
16:41
Speaker 1: her phone reveals it was locked and unlocked several times
16:46
Speaker 1: where she was texting, and then those texts were deleted.
16:49
Speaker 2: Let's start with that.
16:50
Speaker 1: The locking and the unlicking kind of reminds me of
16:52
Speaker 1: the Alex murder case, where this was awesome where the
16:58
Speaker 1: car manufacturer can tell the state everything the car did,
17:03
Speaker 1: where it was traveling, how quickly it was traveling, the mph,
17:07
Speaker 1: and the opening and the shutting of doors of his
17:10
Speaker 1: Alex Mornaux car, which shows he was lying.
17:15
Speaker 2: Let's talk about her phone locking unlocking.
17:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, you think about how how the thing operates. It's curious,
17:24
Speaker 3: isn't it, Nancy, Because many times people will say, you
17:28
Speaker 3: know what we're when they're talking about the criminal cases,
17:32
Speaker 3: they'll say, we're not tracking the person, we're tracking the phone. Okay,
17:36
Speaker 3: that I'll give you that. You know, they could say
17:39
Speaker 3: the phone is moving in a car, somebody's placed in
17:41
Speaker 3: a car. You don't know if the person we're talking
17:44
Speaker 3: about her being in a phone though, we're talking about
17:47
Speaker 3: her being at home inside of their domicile and the
17:51
Speaker 3: house being and the phone being unlocked there. So unless
17:55
Speaker 3: the phone, you know, has developed a life of its own,
17:59
Speaker 3: you can or you can make note of these little
18:02
Speaker 3: electronic breadcrumbs that are you know, that are filling in
18:06
Speaker 3: the blanks for this, you know, when she's trying to
18:09
Speaker 3: alibi herself in this particular case, perhaps you can state
18:13
Speaker 3: that definitively, and that's some alibi.
18:16
Speaker 1: It reminds me I've caught mom Laurie Valo. Oh yeah,
18:20
Speaker 1: when JJ was taken and murdered. I was, I wasn't there.
18:23
Speaker 1: She was three doors down in her apartment. Stop and
18:27
Speaker 1: here she say her alibi Corey Richins is saying her
18:30
Speaker 1: alibi was she went and slept with her son that
18:33
Speaker 1: night up until three am, comes back in and finds
18:35
Speaker 1: her husband cold to the touch. Her alibi she's like
18:39
Speaker 1: eight feet down the hall.
18:41
Speaker 2: Really yep.
18:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, And in this case, in this case, she claimed that,
18:45
Speaker 3: you know, like you had said, that the phone was
18:47
Speaker 3: plugged in, that it was in a static position, that
18:49
Speaker 3: it wasn't moving. That's not what investigators uncovered here this
18:53
Speaker 3: phone moved. It actually moved. She said that she never
18:56
Speaker 3: took the phone into the kid's room. Well, they were
19:00
Speaker 3: nancy in this particular case to give a specific pinpoint
19:04
Speaker 3: location that the phone was active in the kids rooms
19:08
Speaker 3: when she said that she hadn't touched the damn thing.
19:11
Speaker 3: But the case is the fact. The fact is she's
19:13
Speaker 3: moving around, and you know what that leads to. I mean,
19:16
Speaker 3: you're you're from prosecutor. I mean, somebody's lying. You're not
19:19
Speaker 3: telling us the truth. And so with that bit of
19:23
Speaker 3: information in hand, they know that they've got somebody that's
19:26
Speaker 3: you know, that's that's a deceptive.
19:30
Speaker 1: She remember, Josica, I think I've told you this before.
19:34
Speaker 1: After my fiancee Keith was murdered shortly before our wedding,
19:39
Speaker 1: I couldn't even think straight. I really actually just wanted
19:43
Speaker 1: to go outside and howl like an animal. I didn't
19:46
Speaker 1: want to see anybody. I didn't want to talk to anybody.
19:50
Speaker 1: I dropped out of school.
19:51
Speaker 2: I couldn't think straight.
19:54
Speaker 1: And she has the wherewithal Her husband is lying dead
19:58
Speaker 1: on the floor, and she's lying about our phone. That
20:03
Speaker 1: takes nerves of steel and a lot of calculation.
20:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, certainly does. It also takes a lot. It certainly
20:16
Speaker 3: takes a certain level of boldness to write a book
20:20
Speaker 3: about grief in the wake of what police are a
20:24
Speaker 3: legend is a murder on her part. And you think
20:29
Speaker 3: about that just for a second. Let that sink in.
20:32
Speaker 3: You know, you and I have both grieved, you know,
20:35
Speaker 3: we We've talked about it publicly. I've lost a child,
20:39
Speaker 3: uh with with the death of Keith. For you, we
20:42
Speaker 3: understand that pain, you know that you experienced during that
20:45
Speaker 3: period of time. And how how is it that that
20:49
Speaker 3: this can be so systematically planned out and she's got
20:53
Speaker 3: you know, you mentioned she's got these babies, and they're
20:55
Speaker 3: babies to me. I mean, these these these beautiful children
20:58
Speaker 3: that she has that are now fatherless. How is it
21:02
Speaker 3: that you can be thinking in these specific terms where
21:06
Speaker 3: you're attempting to deceive, deceive in order to achieve a
21:10
Speaker 3: long term goal, and you're not placing the appropriate amount
21:15
Speaker 3: of grief, You're not going through the process that you
21:18
Speaker 3: have to go through to get on with your life.
21:20
Speaker 3: She was getting on with her life, all right, and
21:22
Speaker 3: it seems like it's been well planned out on her part.
21:25
Speaker 3: This is one of the most callous things I've heard about, and.
21:28
Speaker 1: So far we haven't heard about a boyfriend or a lover.
21:31
Speaker 1: We've heard a lot about money changing the life insurance
21:35
Speaker 1: policy so she would get the three point six million,
21:39
Speaker 1: and he found out, the victim found out and changed
21:41
Speaker 1: it back. I want to point out one more thing.
21:43
Speaker 1: Not only will her phone show that it was locked
21:46
Speaker 1: and unlocked multiple times where she said it was plugged
21:49
Speaker 1: in and or off in the husband in her bedroom,
21:54
Speaker 1: so she was using it. Text messages back and forth
21:59
Speaker 1: during that time period were deleted. I look down, Joe
22:03
Speaker 1: Scott while you were talking to see I have three
22:05
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty seven unread emails. Repeat three thousand,
22:09
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty seven emails.
22:12
Speaker 2: Okay, I'd be to talk to you about that, nimes.
22:16
Speaker 1: Not People say didn't you get my email? And won't
22:19
Speaker 1: totally no, And so she takes time to delete texts
22:26
Speaker 1: while her husband is lying there with red pink broth
22:30
Speaker 1: coming out of his mouth and nose.
22:32
Speaker 2: And who do you? I wonder who's she texting? Because
22:34
Speaker 2: we're gonna find out.
22:36
Speaker 1: You can bet your bottom dollar on that she was
22:38
Speaker 1: dub enough to text her CI confident informant doper, so
22:44
Speaker 1: I can't wait to find out who she's texting.
22:47
Speaker 2: So the phone can tell.
22:48
Speaker 1: Us locked unlocked, multiple times, texts back and forth during
22:54
Speaker 1: this period of time while her husband is dying with
22:57
Speaker 1: his lungs so heavy, he's like breathing out asperating bloody
23:01
Speaker 1: phae and movement.
23:04
Speaker 2: Can we tell if the phone was moved about the house?
23:10
Speaker 3: According to the authorities? They can you know? Because she actually,
23:14
Speaker 3: you know, she had stated, I don't know if they
23:17
Speaker 3: asked her this directly, but somehow they determined that that
23:20
Speaker 3: phone was not again in one single place that that
23:25
Speaker 3: phone during the period of time was She alleges that
23:27
Speaker 3: it was that it was locked down, that it was charging,
23:30
Speaker 3: or whatever circumstance there was, that phone somehow migrated to
23:36
Speaker 3: the children's bedroom where it was unlocked. What what are
23:39
Speaker 3: you doing in the children's bedroom at this point in time,
23:42
Speaker 3: She claims that she's found her husband lying on the
23:45
Speaker 3: floor and he's cold to the touch. Well, when was
23:48
Speaker 3: the last time you actually saw your husband, ma'am. If
23:51
Speaker 3: you're saying that this is some kind of natural event
23:53
Speaker 3: that has occurred, he's lying on the bedroom floor cold.
23:57
Speaker 3: So if that's the case, are you moving back and
24:00
Speaker 3: forth across his body while you're toting his phone back
24:04
Speaker 3: and forth. It's supposed to be static, and it's being open.
24:07
Speaker 3: And by the way, you're probably the only person that
24:10
Speaker 3: knows how to unlock it because you know the code.
24:13
Speaker 3: We all have a security code for it. So you
24:15
Speaker 3: show that it's unlocked. You're going down the hallway, you're
24:18
Speaker 3: in the kids room. What was she doing? She's contemplating
24:20
Speaker 3: as she's walking up and down the hallway, trying to
24:23
Speaker 3: determine what the next move is, because now at this
24:26
Speaker 3: point she probably has some kind of awareness that, you
24:30
Speaker 3: know what, I've just facilitated the death of the man
24:32
Speaker 3: that I'm married to. Who are they going to look at?
24:35
Speaker 3: They always look at the spouse. But for some reason,
24:37
Speaker 3: she just she didn't necessarily panic. I would certainly be
24:41
Speaker 3: in a state of panic.
24:43
Speaker 2: Joe Scott, do you know that they had a prenup.
24:50
Speaker 1: They had a prenup that was signed on the day
24:54
Speaker 1: of their wedding, and he Eric Richins was worth more
24:59
Speaker 1: to her, Corey Richards dead than alive. Can I ask
25:06
Speaker 1: you something else that happened? Factually, she told cops that
25:13
Speaker 1: she performed CPR on her husband. I find that very
25:18
Speaker 1: difficult to believe. If pink, bloody froth was still coming
25:22
Speaker 1: out or had come out of his nose and mouth
25:25
Speaker 1: and it was still on him in that fashion when
25:28
Speaker 1: first responders got there, what does that tell you that
25:31
Speaker 1: it's still there?
25:35
Speaker 3: This is what can happen. I'm just giving you a
25:37
Speaker 3: scientific facts here. If he is presenting with this pink
25:42
Speaker 3: frothy cone, this can be exacerbated. It can, and this
25:46
Speaker 3: is what would probably argued, this can be exacerbated by
25:50
Speaker 3: chess compressions. I think the key here though, is, you know,
25:54
Speaker 3: the first responding officers, the EMTs, when they're talking to her,
25:58
Speaker 3: if she's done mouth mouth, if she's done chest compressions
26:02
Speaker 3: on him, I think the question or that I would
26:05
Speaker 3: ask them, what did you observe on her person? Was
26:08
Speaker 3: there anything on her that's some kind of contact that
26:11
Speaker 3: had leached back onto her, say, for instance, because it
26:14
Speaker 3: would stain the mouth if she did mouth to mouth,
26:16
Speaker 3: it would be on her potentially on her hands that
26:19
Speaker 3: she's trying to open the airway. You know, that's how
26:21
Speaker 3: we do CPR. You got to clear the airway, you
26:23
Speaker 3: got to open it up. But I'd like to know
26:26
Speaker 3: to what extent this cone was presenting, if in fact
26:31
Speaker 3: it did, which is normal in these circumstances when you
26:35
Speaker 3: have a fentanyl OD.
26:37
Speaker 1: So you're telling me that when the cops got in
26:39
Speaker 1: there and they say he still has the bloody foam
26:42
Speaker 1: coming out of his mouth and nose, you think it
26:45
Speaker 1: was possible she had performed CPR on him.
26:49
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that it's possible she performed CPR. But
26:52
Speaker 3: what can happen, though, is if you are in this
26:54
Speaker 3: status after you've odeed or been odeed on fentanyl, will
27:00
Speaker 3: continue People don't believe this, but I've actually seen it happen.
27:03
Speaker 3: It will continue to present and actually come out of
27:08
Speaker 3: the body for a protracted period of time. It's going
27:11
Speaker 3: to be further exacerbated by the fact that you're doing
27:13
Speaker 3: chest compressions, you know, so you're compressing the lungs, You're
27:17
Speaker 3: pushing more and more out all the while.
27:20
Speaker 1: So she could have performed CPR and then the phone
27:23
Speaker 1: continued to come out of his nose and mouth. If
27:25
Speaker 1: you're doing mouth to mouth on somebody, how would that work?
27:30
Speaker 3: Well? You would you there would be a sensation that
27:32
Speaker 3: this is traveling. You know, you're you're actually sharing this
27:36
Speaker 3: with the body. It would go back into her mouth,
27:39
Speaker 3: it would be on her face, there would be a
27:41
Speaker 3: ring around her face perhaps, but you know, you don't
27:44
Speaker 3: know if she took time to clean up, if she
27:47
Speaker 3: and it did in fact attempts CPR.
27:50
Speaker 1: So we need to know her presentation, how she presented
27:53
Speaker 1: when cops got there, what she looked like in regular talk,
27:56
Speaker 1: what she looked like.
27:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, and you you want to know. And one
28:01
Speaker 3: of the things that we also look like is are
28:04
Speaker 3: one of the things we also look for in individuals
28:07
Speaker 3: that are the reporters of death, those that discover the dead,
28:10
Speaker 3: is are they presenting with an appropriate amount of grief?
28:14
Speaker 3: Are they you know, are they in hysterical state. I've
28:18
Speaker 3: seen people go catatonic, you know, where you can't get
28:20
Speaker 3: any information out of them. But then you got those
28:23
Speaker 3: that just kind of hit that kind of flat plane
28:26
Speaker 3: where they're just kind of talking to you. Is if oham,
28:29
Speaker 3: it's another day.
28:32
Speaker 1: Five times the amount of a deadly dosage of fentanyl
28:37
Speaker 1: in his system and prophetic words telling his sister she
28:44
Speaker 1: might just kill me for the money, we wait as
28:48
Speaker 1: just as unfalls.
28:49
Speaker 2: Scott, You're awesome. Thank you for being with us.