Latest / MUBI Podcast / ARTISTS VS. AUTOCRACY: Istanbul cinema crosses the bridge

Transcript

ARTISTS VS. AUTOCRACY: Istanbul cinema crosses the bridge · MUBI Podcast

• 0:00
  Hi everyone. Your host, Rico Gagliano here. Quick heads up: you're about to hear the final episode of a season you probably thought we ended a couple months ago.
• 0:09
  This episode deals with some serious political issues in the nation of Turkey, and we felt like we had to take extra time to get the details right.
• 0:16
  Meanwhile, I think events around the world, maybe especially in my home country, the USA, have only made it more relevant.
• 0:23
  Hope you agree and that it sparked some conversations.
• 0:26
  And as always, beware: spoilers ahead.
• 0:37
  And as always, beware: One Saturday last March, around midnight, I was on a Turkish Airlines flight descending into Turkey's biggest city, Istanbul.
• 0:45
  And as always, beware: Out the cabin window, I caught my first glimpse of hazy streetlights beneath us and I felt, I don't know how did I feel?
• 0:52
  And as always, beware: Uneasy?
• 0:53
  And as always, beware: Dear passengers, as we are descending, make sure that your hand luggageis stowed in the overhead bins. It was a totally different feeling than the last time I flew here, 2011.
• 1:05
  And as always, beware: When I remember only anticipation.
• 1:07
  And as always, beware: Back then, Turkey was coming off an economic boom.
• 1:11
  And as always, beware: The government had supposedly been liberalizing.
• 1:13
  And as always, beware: It was negotiating to join the EU.
• 1:15
  And as always, beware: Travel mags hyped Istanbul as the place to be, a vibrant fusion city.
• 1:20
  And as always, beware: European and Asian, modern and ancient.
• 1:23
  And as always, beware: Sure enough, I saw a hip art and grand mosques.
• 1:27
  And as always, beware: It felt groovy, cosmopolitan, a cool place to be an artist.
• 1:32
  And as always, beware: Now I know Turkey was headed in a way, different direction.
• 1:36
  And as always, beware: Oh, they list Baked Alaska.
• 1:36
  And as always, beware: Ever eat it?No. This is a movie show, so I'll give you movie examples.
• 1:45
  And as always, beware: Last year in Istanbul, this film, Luca Guadagnino's Queer was going to be the opening night film of MUBI Fest, a film festival MUBI curates in cities around the world.
• 1:55
  And as always, beware: But then, just a few hours before the screening...
• 1:57
  And as always, beware: Its hot on the outside...and cold inside. The local governor banned the movie.
• 2:06
  And as always, beware: Queer, you see, is about a gay relationship.
• 2:09
  And as always, beware: The authorities said it was,"Provocative content that could endanger public peace." So MUBI decided to cancel the whole festival.
• 2:18
  And as always, beware: A year before that, the country's biggest and longest running festival was canceled, the Antalya Golden Orange Film Fest.
• 2:24
  And as always, beware: It's sin?
• 2:25
  And as always, beware: Programing, a documentary critical of the Turkish government.
• 2:29
  And as always, beware: Just a few months ago, a satirical Turkish flick about a rigged election, also banned.
• 2:38
  And as always, beware: So much for a cool place to be an artist.
• 2:41
  And as always, beware: Ladies and gentlemen and dear children, welcome to Istanbul Airportmeeting point of the world.We hope that you had a pleasant flight.
• 2:49
  And as always, beware: For your safety, please remain seated... As the jet pulled into our gate and I got ready to step off, I had to wonder what had I missed the first time around?
• 3:01
  And as always, beware: How did the country change so fast?
• 3:04
  And as always, beware: Turns out the changes had been brewing for years and I was going to be there for the biggest one yet.
• 3:21
  And as always, beware: I'm Rico Gagliano.
• 3:23
  And as always, beware: Welcome back to the MUBI Podcast.
• 3:24
  And as always, beware: MUBI's, the film company that champions great cinema.
• 3:27
  And as always, beware: On this show we tell you the stories behind great cinema.
• 3:30
  And as always, beware: Today we wrap up season eight.
• 3:31
  And as always, beware: We've been calling it 'Traveling Shots'.
• 3:33
  And as always, beware: Every episode I've been taking a tour through the film scene in a different international city to meet its best filmmakers, learn about the ways people there make and watch movies, and try to understand why they do it that way.
• 3:44
  And as always, beware: This week, Istanbul, an amazing city, split in half by the Bosphorus Strait into a Europe side and an Asia side.
• 3:51
  And as always, beware: That's also got a split political personality.
• 3:54
  And as always, beware: On the surface, a democracy, but in practice more and more autocratic.
• 3:58
  And as always, beware: Compared to Iran we have some freedoms.
• 3:58
  And as always, beware: We had some freedoms.
• 4:02
  And as always, beware: But I don't know what will happen from today on.
• 4:06
  And as always, beware: Probably I will have more difficulty in even showing my films in cinemas.
• 4:10
  And as always, beware: That is Emin Alper, one of Turkey's greatest living filmmakers.
• 4:14
  And as always, beware: And I talked to him and many others about what it's like to make movies in a place like this, about the passionate audience they make them for.
• 4:20
  And as always, beware: They will be like hundreds, maybe sometimes thousands of people out in the street, you know, talking about films.
• 4:27
  And as always, beware: And about the political earthquake I woke up to on the last day of my visit.
• 4:35
  And as always, beware: As the far right rises worldwide, there are take-aways for all of us.
• 4:38
  And as always, beware: So here's a story of beauty and bravery.
• 4:41
  And as always, beware: The film scene, past and present of Istanbul.
• 4:49
  And as always, beware: So, in my opinion, one of the coolest movies of this century is about Istanbul and the arts, in a relatively happier time.
• 5:00
  And as always, beware: It's called Crossing the Bridge, a documentary about the city's music scene circa 2005, which was so happening it attracted folks like this guy.
• 5:08
  And as always, beware: My name is Alexander Hacke, bassist for Einstürzende Neubauten. That's Alexander Hacke, bassist of the German industrial band Einstürzende Neubauten.
• 5:17
  And as always, beware: He spends the movie prowling the city, recording and jamming with local bands, on boats, in apartments, in underground clubs, and also hanging out in his room at an old world hotel.
• 5:29
  And as always, beware: In the opening scene, he lights up a smoke with rock star cool cracks open the window...
• 5:36
  And as always, beware: and listens to the sound of Muslim calls to prayer from the city outside.
• 5:42
  And as always, beware: So of course I had to start my trip in the same hotel.
• 5:46
  And as always, beware: It's called the Grand Hotel de Londres, established 1890, in a bustling corner of town called Beyoglu.
• 5:52
  And as always, beware: And it is a time machine.
• 5:54
  And as always, beware: Hello. Checking in.
• 5:56
  And as always, beware: - Check in?
• 5:56
  And as always, beware: - Yeah.
• 5:57
  And as always, beware: - What's the name?
• 5:57
  And as always, beware: - Gagliano.
• 6:00
  And as always, beware: - Gagliano?
• 6:00
  And as always, beware: - Yeah.
• 6:02
  And as always, beware: - Pasaporte, por favor.
• 6:02
  And as always, beware: - There you go.
• 6:04
  And as always, beware: This place was the spot for 19th century Europeans who'd just come to town on the Orient Express.
• 6:10
  And as always, beware: And the lobby looks like nothing has changed since.
• 6:13
  And as always, beware: There's chandeliers, crushed velvet curtains, antique armchairs with antique lumpy upholstery, a fireplace with an old model of a clipper ship on the mantel.
• 6:22
  And as always, beware: It is awesome.
• 6:23
  And as always, beware: And up in my room, so is the view.
• 6:29
  And as always, beware: Well, here I am...
• 6:31
  And as always, beware: in Istanbul, and I just forgotten how unbelievably cool it is.
• 6:37
  And as always, beware: I'm looking out from my balcony across the Bosphorus.
• 6:40
  And as always, beware: I think I'm looking at part of the European side, and it's kind of, it's hilly.
• 6:45
  And as always, beware: It's a kind of, you know, San Francisco-y vibe to the landscape, which makes sense since they both have a lot of earthquakes.
• 6:51
  And as always, beware: And the entire hillside is just covered with housing and trees.
• 6:57
  And as always, beware: And the houses are everything from little boxes to, you know, every quarter mile or so, these grand, unbelievably beautiful mosques rising up, they're all lit up.
• 7:08
  And as always, beware: Each mosque with its domes, its multiple domes, has also these, like tall spires.
• 7:15
  And as always, beware: So in Crossing the Bridge, Alexander Hacke leans out just like this and looks out at the city.
• 7:24
  And as always, beware: I feel really cool right now.
• 7:27
  And as always, beware: Yeah, from up there, you can almost imagine this part of town hasn't changed since 2005, when it wasn't just the music scene that was beautiful.
• 7:38
  And as always, beware: Yeah, I don't want to romanticize much.
• 7:41
  And as always, beware: Try not to be nostalgic about it.
• 7:43
  And as always, beware: But there always was kind of, in every street there would be some action.
• 7:50
  And as always, beware: That's Fırat Yücel, he's a documentary director, film critic and longtime editor of the Turkish cinema magazine Altyazı and he remembers a lot of the action was around cinema, or rather cinemas, which Beyoglu was known for since way back.
• 8:04
  And as always, beware: It was four theaters and like there were some old theaters, really large, you know, 1000 people, 2000 people, and you could walk in and, you know, magical atmosphere would be waiting for you.
• 8:19
  And as always, beware: And my generation also had the chance to see a few of these theaters, and one of them was Emek movie theater.
• 8:30
  And as always, beware: Emek theater was built in 1924 off Beyoglu main drag, Istiklal Street.
• 8:35
  And as always, beware: It was a grand Art Nouveau palace that by the 00s screened everything from Hollywood blockbusters to international arthouse stuff.
• 8:42
  And as always, beware: For film obsessed college kids like Fırat it was their home and hive.
• 8:46
  And as always, beware: Because you could just walk out of the theater and then in seconds you would be out in the streets.
• 8:53
  And as always, beware: And because many people smoke in Turkey, they're probably like hundreds, maybe sometimes thousands of people out in the street, you know, talking about films, you know, and even, for example, our magazine was, we thought of this magazine in one of the screenings in Emek movie theater, we were like 7 or 8 people who went to this film and we said, like, let's make a movie magazine.
• 9:19
  And as always, beware: They were not alone.
• 9:20
  And as always, beware: There was also a wave of thinking about films, for example.
• 9:25
  And as always, beware: There were like, not just us, but there was a few film magazines.
• 9:30
  And as always, beware: So imagine an atmosphere where I mean, for political cinema magazines and for mainstream cinema magazines and one in between.
• 9:40
  And as always, beware: We were trying to compromise.
• 9:43
  And as always, beware: And there was plenty of Turkish cinema for all those critics and all those magazines to dissect, thanks to the rise of a new political party that was going to define 21st century Turkey and its movies.
• 10:01
  And as always, beware: It was called the AKP, the Justice and Development Party headed by this man Recep Erdoğan.
• 10:10
  And as always, beware: When he and the party came to power in 2002 it seemed like a new day.
• 10:14
  And as always, beware: So in the early stages they started to support filmmakers, so they were a bit more liberal in the first...
• 10:21
  And as always, beware: - When they started?
• 10:21
  And as always, beware: - Yeah, when they started.
• 10:23
  And as always, beware: And therefore the filmmakers had a bit of liberty to talk about issues that weren't easy to be talked about before, because in the 90s it was quite a difficult country.
• 10:38
  And as always, beware: Yeah, in the 90s, the government was embroiled in an armed conflict with Kurdish guerrillas who wanted to break away from Turkey and form their own country.
• 10:45
  And as always, beware: So the authorities cracked down hard on any kind of dissent.
• 10:49
  And as always, beware: A lot of which was labeled terrorism.
• 10:51
  And as always, beware: But in 2000, the government had a liberal agenda, and they were trying to also find peace with the Kurdish forces.
• 11:01
  And as always, beware: So the country was a bit more relaxed, let's say.
• 11:05
  And as always, beware: So people could talk about taboos.
• 11:08
  And as always, beware: And some filmmakers definitely did.
• 11:19
  And as always, beware: This is the opening scene of a movie called Autumn, released in 2008.
• 11:23
  And as always, beware: Through the hazy, blown out black and white of what looks like closed circuit video footage, we hear a police negotiator telling political prisoners on a hunger strike to give themselves up.
• 11:39
  And as always, beware: Then we meet one of those prisoners, years later.
• 11:42
  And as always, beware: Prison doctor tells him he's got a terminal lung disease made worse by hunger strikes.
• 11:53
  And as always, beware: So he's released and heads to his misty hometown in the mountains to live out what's left of his life.
• 12:02
  And as always, beware: It was the debut film by a guy named Özcan Alper.
• 12:06
  And as always, beware: Hi, Sir. Nice to meet you.
• 12:06
  And as always, beware: I'm very honored to talk to you.
• 12:09
  And as always, beware: And one morning, over some strong Turkish coffee, I met up with him at his Istanbul apartment to talk to him about it.
• 12:18
  And as always, beware: If you were a university student in the 90s, it was easy to go to jail.
• 12:23
  And as always, beware: I mean, you could be arrested for protesting at a university or a rally, and you would be jailed for 10 to 12 years.
• 12:30
  And as always, beware: I actually had a few friends like that.
• 12:32
  And as always, beware: My film was inspired by my own student years.
• 12:36
  And as always, beware: That's how it was.
• 12:38
  And as always, beware: But for that brief moment in the 00s, you could not only make movies about the fallout from the 90s crackdown, the Erdoğan government would help fund them, and audiences were hungry to see them.
• 12:51
  And as always, beware: We were happier.
• 12:52
  And as always, beware: I really thought that Turkey would be more democratic, more free.
• 12:57
  And as always, beware: After I made Autumn, I was going to a lot of different cities, 7 or 800 people in every screening.
• 13:03
  And as always, beware: I would be speaking after one screening while another screening was starting down the hall.
• 13:08
  And as always, beware: I would do that 4 or 5 times a day, talking to 3 or 4000 people a day.
• 13:13
  And as always, beware: It was a very big thing.
• 13:15
  And as always, beware: I could feel how powerful it was to make a film.
• 13:20
  And as always, beware: So could folks like Fırat Yücel watching movies like this at the Emek and hang in with that huge community of cinephiles at the many festivals the theater hosted.
• 13:29
  And as always, beware: These new directors, this generation was much more political than the previous generation.
• 13:37
  And as always, beware: We were quite impressed by these films and during the festivals it was like really packed and really a great atmosphere of talking, dreaming, talking about films.
• 13:50
  And as always, beware: Yeah, it was quite special.
• 13:53
  And as always, beware: And then everything changed.
• 13:59
  And as always, beware: Yeah, right around the time I first visited Istanbul in 2011, when to tourists like me, everything seemed open and moving forward behind the scenes, the AKP was actually starting to shift into reverse.
• 14:16
  And as always, beware: Early on, the party thought that to establish a powerful government, they wouldn't want artists, intellectuals and other people in the cultural field to oppose them.
• 14:24
  And as always, beware: So they made sure to seem nice to us.
• 14:27
  And as always, beware: But once the government felt secure in its power, they started drawing strict red lines for what was allowed in movies.
• 14:35
  And as always, beware: They talked less and less with filmmakers, and cinema was seen as less important.
• 14:42
  And as always, beware: Yeah, I remember like, they would say we don't need the liberals anymore.
• 14:49
  And as always, beware: Like, that was the rhetorics they start to use.
• 14:56
  And as always, beware: And to be fair, in the early 2010s governments in Turkey's part of the world had a pretty good reason to fear liberals because mass uprisings were breaking out against repressive regimes all over the Middle East, from Tunisia to Turkey's next door neighbor, Syria and beyond.
• 15:10
  And as always, beware: Protests in Bahrain, Morocco, Jordan.
• 15:10
  And as always, beware: Egyptians filled Tahrir Square inthe center of Cairo, protesting for weeks. So in that period, Occupy Wall Street happened and the Arab Spring was also happening.
• 15:25
  And as always, beware: So I think the government was quite paranoid. You know?
• 15:30
  And as always, beware: The Arab Spring is happening.
• 15:31
  And as always, beware: Regimes are getting potentially toppled and they're "Like, oh, maybe all this freedom and liberalism isn't so great." Yes, exactly.
• 15:39
  And as always, beware: Erdoğan's policies got less secular humanist and more religious, nationalist and conservative.
• 15:44
  And as always, beware: Tensions were back between the AKP and Kurdish guerrillas.
• 15:47
  And as always, beware: The party got more intolerant of the LGBTQ community.
• 15:50
  And as always, beware: People making movies about this stuff got less funding and more hassled, and things finally blew up when the government came to bulldoze a piece of Istanbul cinema history.
• 16:04
  And as always, beware: This is that street I mentioned earlier, Istiklal, Beyoglu's main drag.
• 16:08
  And as always, beware: It's a humming pedestrian strip where the only vehicles allowed are streetcars.
• 16:11
  And as always, beware: Istiklal used to be lined with independent shops.
• 16:15
  And as always, beware: Today, not as much.
• 16:17
  And as always, beware: Istanbul is now maybe one of the towns in which there are the most shopping malls in, they're everywhere.
• 16:25
  And as always, beware: They're inside the city.
• 16:25
  And as always, beware: They're in the center.
• 16:27
  And as always, beware: They're in the peripheries, maybe even much more than they have in Abu Dhabi or somewhere.
• 16:34
  And as always, beware: You know, it's crazy.
• 16:34
  And as always, beware: In Istanbul, they are everywhere there.
• 16:39
  And as always, beware: Firat says these malls started popping up in the late 00s as part of the government's urban renewal plan.
• 16:44
  And as always, beware: The goal was supposedly to rebuild parts of the city so they could withstand an earthquake.
• 16:46
  And as always, beware: Instead...
• 16:49
  And as always, beware: They just, you know, made an urban transformation for the rich.
• 16:54
  And as always, beware: And on Istiklal that meant a bunch of beloved old communal spaces would have to be razed, including the Emek Cinema.
• 17:03
  And as always, beware: The locals didn't let it go quietly.
• 17:15
  And as always, beware: This is footage from a 2016 documentary called Audience Emancipated.
• 17:19
  And as always, beware: It's all about the weeks of demonstrations that sprung up to save the Emek.
• 17:23
  And as always, beware: There are thousands of people chanting stretching far down Istiklal.
• 17:27
  And as always, beware: Obviously driven by something more than trying to preserve a nice piece of architecture.
• 17:34
  And as always, beware: "We see this as a place of struggle" says one of them.
• 17:37
  And as always, beware: "We dream of a place not just to watch movies, but to fearlessly come together." They're chanting "May this mall collapse. May Erdoğan be buried under it." Close your eyes and it doesn't feel that much different than the Arab Spring protests, a vibe that probably wasn't lost on Erdoğan's government.
• 17:59
  And as always, beware: Eventually, they shut it all down.
• 18:08
  And as always, beware: In our last demonstration, the police attacked us.
• 18:13
  And as always, beware: All of us was watered.
• 18:16
  And as always, beware: I don't know, it's called water cannon.
• 18:18
  And as always, beware: Yeah, high pressure water cannon.
• 18:20
  And as always, beware: High pressure water cannon.
• 18:20
  And as always, beware: And also tear gas.
• 18:24
  And as always, beware: And next to me is an old film director, Erden Kıral.
• 18:29
  And as always, beware: Probably he was 70 years old or something, but he came to stand with us because he thought if he's there, it would be easy to negotiate with the police.
• 18:40
  And as always, beware: But it didn't happen.
• 18:45
  And as always, beware: The Emek was partially demolished in 2013 and replaced by, yes, a mall.
• 18:51
  And as always, beware: You can still see traces of its former grandeur, like the marble passage leading into the building.
• 18:56
  And as always, beware: And pieces of the theater ended up in what's now an event space on an upper floor.
• 19:00
  And as always, beware: I tried to get in to see it, but a security guard told my guide, Ilayda Kulaksizoglu, that it was closed off that day.
• 19:07
  And as always, beware: Now they're shooting like a YouTube show today, so we can't even go up because they're setting up cameras.
• 19:13
  And as always, beware: But he said that like, even it's hard to get a ticket to any event that's here, he said.
• 19:21
  And as always, beware: Exclusive, not accessible by the common civilian.
• 19:27
  And as always, beware: Yeah, really sad to see what it has turned into.
• 19:31
  And as always, beware: But other classic cinemas are hanging on and open to everyone, and so are the city's filmmakers.
• 19:37
  And as always, beware: I head underground in Istanbul and try to find hope on a hopeless day.
• 19:42
  And as always, beware: That's coming up in just a minute.
• 19:42
  And as always, beware: Stay with us.
• 19:51
  And as always, beware: All right, everybody, MUBI is the film company that champions great cinema, bringing it to you wherever you are in as many ways as we possibly can.
• 19:59
  And as always, beware: We stream movies, we produce them, we release them in theaters.
• 20:01
  And as always, beware: Movies from any country, from legendary auteurs or brilliant first timers.
• 20:05
  And as always, beware: We've always got something new for you to discover.
• 20:07
  And as always, beware: And this week I got two picks for you to discover.
• 20:10
  And as always, beware: First of them being a movie I told you about just a few minutes ago, director Fatih Akin's documentaryCrossing the Bridge.
• 20:17
  And as always, beware: It's showing on MUBI right now, almost globally, and it's one of those movies that just makes you feel cooler and cooler while you watch it.
• 20:24
  And as always, beware: Akin follows Einsturzende Neubauten bassist Alexander Hacke on a journey through Istanbul's music scene in the heady days of the early 00s.
• 20:32
  And as always, beware: Not only will it help you to Turkish music that will blow your mind.
• 20:36
  And as always, beware: Just wait till you hear this rapper called Ceza's hyperspeed flow.
• 20:40
  And as always, beware: It's also kind of alternative tour of Istanbul.
• 20:43
  And as always, beware: So if you're into music or travel, this is a must see.
• 20:45
  And as always, beware: And then for a more modern look at the city with a very different kind of vibe we've also got Levan Akin's acclaimed 2024 movie Crossing.
• 20:53
  And as always, beware: The story of a Georgian woman who comes to Istanbul to find her transgender niece, who she learns is somewhere in town.
• 21:00
  And as always, beware: As you may have guessed from the episode so far, Erdoğan's government is not friendly to the trans community.
• 21:06
  And as always, beware: But this movie finds a lot of tenderness in a very tough situation.
• 21:10
  And as always, beware: Highly recommend.
• 21:11
  And as always, beware: That is Crossing the Bridge and Crossing, two movies, very similar titles that should cut down on your search time, and you can watch them both right now, almost worldwide on MUBI.
• 21:21
  And as always, beware: Just head to mubi.com to subscribe and start watching.
• 21:24
  And as always, beware: As usual, you will find all the links and info you need in the show notes of this episode.
• 21:28
  And as always, beware: Speaking of which, let's get back to it.
• 21:34
  And as always, beware: So in April 2013, when the theater protest got crushed, Özcan Alper was there.
• 21:40
  And as always, beware: Since then, he has seen the Erdoğan government crack down on other protest movements, literally change the constitution to stay in power, deny public funds to political movies and sometimes keep them from being shown.
• 21:51
  And as always, beware: So when I spoke to him at his apartment, I had to ask why things aren't even worse for artists like him.
• 21:59
  And as always, beware: You know, like you're making political films in a government that doesn't want, clearly doesn't want political expression to happen.
• 22:06
  And as always, beware: So how do you get those films made at all?
• 22:06
  And as always, beware: How are you not shut down?
• 22:13
  And as always, beware: It's not like an open dictatorship.
• 22:16
  And as always, beware: You have to understand, this isn't Russia where 80% of people support Putin.
• 22:21
  And as always, beware: Here it's 50 or maybe even 60% against Erdoğan.
• 22:26
  And as always, beware: And despite all the anti-democratic measures, there are strong student movements, feminist movements, labor unions and democratic organizations.
• 22:35
  And as always, beware: There is such a power of democracy in Turkey.
• 22:39
  And as always, beware: So, yes, Erdoğan is pushing hard on everything right now, but they are in no position to forbid us from shooting a movie.
• 22:52
  And as always, beware: Now, if that sounds like a hopeful take on the situation.
• 22:54
  And as always, beware: Really I saw a lot of hope in Istanbul.
• 22:57
  And as always, beware: Like the next day I was in a taxi to the Asia side of town, and when my cabbie wasn't listening super intently to sports radio, he told me he was sure Erdoğan would lose the next presidential election to a guy everyone knew was going to announce his candidacy any minute.
• 23:12
  And as always, beware: The popular mayor of Istanbul, Ekrem İmamoğlu.
• 23:15
  And as always, beware: By the way, the cabbie also complimented me on my naturally full head of hair, because apparently a lot of American men come to Istanbul for hair replacement surgery.
• 23:24
  And as always, beware: I guess it's a local specialty.
• 23:25
  And as always, beware: We both found that hilarious.
• 23:27
  And as always, beware: And when he dropped me off in a neighborhood called Kadikoy to meet my guide, Ilayda...
• 23:35
  And as always, beware: Things turned even sunnier.
• 23:40
  And as always, beware: This is a cinema in Kadikoy.
• 23:41
  And as always, beware: It is cunningly named, yes, the Kadikoy Cinema, built in 1964.
• 23:46
  And as always, beware: On the overhead sound system while we bought tickets.
• 23:48
  And as always, beware: The Who's Roger Daltrey sang uplifting about not getting fooled again.
• 23:54
  And as always, beware: Then we descended the stairs down to a cozy underground concession space and then into the 318 seat screening room.
• 24:02
  And as always, beware: Which blew my freaking mind.
• 24:04
  And as always, beware: Wow! This is...
• 24:08
  And as always, beware: rad! We are standing in the back of one of the coolest theaters I've ever been in.
• 24:16
  And as always, beware: This is really cool.
• 24:17
  And as always, beware: This looks like, I don't know, it feels like it could be the movie theater on the starship Nostromo from Alien or something.
• 24:24
  And as always, beware: Yeah, most cinemas are boxes.
• 24:26
  And as always, beware: The Kadikoy is more like a wide, oval shaped tube.
• 24:29
  And as always, beware: The cream colored walls and ceiling have these almost organic folds, forming a tunnel of concentric rings leading down to the screen.
• 24:36
  And as always, beware: It feels half geometric, half animal.
• 24:39
  And as always, beware: I guess it's almost like being inside the mouth of a whale looking out.
• 24:43
  And as always, beware: It's like the gills of a whale or a fish going down the sides of the wall.
• 24:48
  And as always, beware: Very modernist. How do I describe this?
• 24:50
  And as always, beware: It's like ribs.
• 24:50
  And as always, beware: That's how I would describe it.
• 24:53
  And as always, beware: It's kind of like you're inside a rib cage and...
• 24:58
  And as always, beware: It reminds me of, like, a caterpillar.
• 24:58
  And as always, beware: Like or like a worm.
• 25:02
  And as always, beware: Like layers.
• 25:03
  And as always, beware: So it's either like being inside a whale or inside a rib cage or inside a caterpillar.
• 25:08
  And as always, beware: Exactly.
• 25:09
  And as always, beware: And the fact that we can't decide is why this is so cool.
• 25:13
  And as always, beware: You know, something curious?
• 25:14
  And as always, beware: All the seats have little plates with names on them.
• 25:18
  And as always, beware: Like after Covid, this theater was having a hard time standing, so people donated just to support the theater.
• 25:25
  And as always, beware: So they put up little plates with the names of people that donated them.
• 25:29
  And as always, beware: So every seat has a name.
• 25:31
  And as always, beware: I hope when each of those people come to the cinema, they have a guaranteed seat.
• 25:36
  And as always, beware: And it's that one.
• 25:37
  And as always, beware: Yeah, well.
• 25:37
  And as always, beware: Well, probably.
• 25:39
  And as always, beware: - I just want to walk down to the front.
• 25:39
  And as always, beware: - Yeah.
• 25:45
  And as always, beware: This definitely looks like it was made in 1964.
• 25:48
  And as always, beware: It is so modernist and so kind of forward thinking and futuristic.
• 25:54
  And as always, beware: You can, there's like a real sense of optimism in this place.
• 26:01
  And as always, beware: When we left the theater, I took that optimistic vibe with me.
• 26:04
  And as always, beware: Mall multiplexes have displaced a lot of old school cinemas in town, but the ones that survive are pretty wonderful.
• 26:10
  And as always, beware: And so is the audience that's kept them and Turkish filmmakers going through rough times.
• 26:17
  And as always, beware: In fact, a half hour later, as the skies opened up with rain, I almost literally bumped into a guy I happened to know as one of the best stories ever about the passion of Turkish filmgoers.
• 26:27
  And as always, beware: Director Emin Alper.
• 26:29
  And as always, beware: On the spot we made a plan to meet the next day for an interview about it.
• 26:33
  And as always, beware: And there we were, me and one of the best filmmakers in the country, chatting under umbrellas while he was on his way to grab some groceries.
• 26:42
  And as always, beware: As I headed off to catch a ferry back across the Bosphorus to my hotel, I thought, this place is magic.
• 26:53
  And as always, beware: And then the next day, this happened.
• 26:57
  It's a noon, like 12: 15 p.m.
• 26:57
  It's a noon, like 12: On Wednesday, March 19th.
• 27:02
  It's a noon, like 12: And I was just in my hotel room and a colleague just texted me and, told me that the, mayor of Istanbul, who's one of the big opposition leaders in the country, just got detained by the government.
• 27:17
  It's a noon, like 12: And I'm going to look at video.
• 27:17
  It's a noon, like 12: There's live video on Reuters online.
• 27:30
  It's a noon, like 12: And there's live video of a protest that's forming, I guess, outside Istanbul police headquarters.
• 27:36
  It's a noon, like 12: Something like that.
• 27:37
  It's a noon, like 12: I don't know if you can hear the fear in my voice there, but as I watch the crowd grow and heard their anger grow, it was pretty clear that jailing Mayor İmamoğlu, remember the guy everyone knew was going to run against Erdoğan for president, it wasn't just another little crack in Turkish democracy.
• 27:54
  It's a noon, like 12: It was a chasm opening up.
• 27:56
  It's a noon, like 12: For a second, I wondered if I should get the hell out of the country, like, immediately.
• 28:00
  It's a noon, like 12: And if that's what I was thinking, what about the guy who I was about to interview?
• 28:07
  It's a noon, like 12: My name is Emin Alper. I'm a filmmaker.
• 28:10
  It's a noon, like 12: I just finished my fifth film.
• 28:12
  It's a noon, like 12: I met up with Emin Alper that day at the Cinematheque in Kadikoy, where he's artistic director.
• 28:16
  It's a noon, like 12: I started by asking him to tell me the story.
• 28:19
  It's a noon, like 12: I'd originally hoped to end this episode with the fallout from his 2022 movie,Burning Days. That's a political thriller about small town corruption and homophobia.
• 28:28
  It's a noon, like 12: At Cannes it competed for the Queer Palme d'Or.
• 28:32
  It's a noon, like 12: And that's when things went crazy.
• 28:35
  It's a noon, like 12: For the production of the film we got public fund from the Ministry of Culture, and then we did the film after the film was shown as a candidate for Queer Palme in Cannes the ministry said they wanted the money back.
• 28:51
  It's a noon, like 12: Yeah, the ministry claimed Alper had made a different, I guess, gayer movie than the script they'd originally been pitched.
• 28:57
  It's a noon, like 12: Now they wanted to claw back the funding.
• 28:57
  It's a noon, like 12: A million Turkish lira.
• 29:02
  It's a noon, like 12: It turned out to be great publicity.
• 29:04
  It's a noon, like 12: After Cannes, already, people were really curious about the film because of this Queer Palme issue.
• 29:10
  It's a noon, like 12: Since the LGBTI issue became a taboo for the government, and then when the ministry wanted the money back, people really started running to the cinemas.
• 29:21
  It's a noon, like 12: There was big lines.
• 29:22
  It's a noon, like 12: I mean, it was amazing for me to see such scenes because we are not used to see such queues, such lines in front of cinemas, and many people said that they couldn't find tickets and moreover, people, just to show solidarity, started buying 10 tickets, 20 tickets.
• 29:40
  It's a noon, like 12: People would buy like 20 tickets and then give them out to friends, or even if they couldn't, at least the tickets were bought and you'd have money to pay back the government.
• 29:47
  It's a noon, like 12: They bought 20 tickets and they declared it on social media.
• 29:51
  It's a noon, like 12: I mean, it became, it turned into a kind of protest.
• 29:54
  It's a noon, like 12: Social protest.
• 29:55
  It's a noon, like 12: Burning Days became one of the biggest art house hits in the history of the country.
• 29:59
  It's a noon, like 12: Emin paid back the ministry with money to spare.
• 30:03
  It's a noon, like 12: Now you see what I mean about Turkish audiences.
• 30:07
  It's a noon, like 12: Since that fracas, Emin says he doesn't get public funds from the government anymore.
• 30:12
  It's a noon, like 12: For him, it's all private investors and co-production deals with countries like Germany.
• 30:16
  It's a noon, like 12: But the movies get made and they've been seen in his home country.
• 30:20
  It's a noon, like 12: Now who knows?
• 30:22
  It's a noon, like 12: Compared to Iran, we have some freedoms, we had some freedoms.
• 30:26
  It's a noon, like 12: But I don't know what will happen from today on.
• 30:30
  It's a noon, like 12: A candidate for presidency was arrested and now Turkey had a big step forward to more authoritarian regime, maybe a full fledged dictatorship.
• 30:40
  It's a noon, like 12: We will see in the near future.
• 30:42
  It's a noon, like 12: So from now on, our future, all the future of the artists and filmmakers are bleaker.
• 30:47
  It's a noon, like 12: I mean, probably I will have more difficulty in even showing my films in cinemas.
• 30:53
  It's a noon, like 12: Now a new phase is starting for us, so we don't know what will happen.
• 30:58
  It's a noon, like 12: Why now? Why did this happen now?
• 31:01
  It's a noon, like 12: I mean, everyone is asking this question.
• 31:01
  It's a noon, like 12: Nobody knows.
• 31:05
  It's a noon, like 12: But for my opinion, it is somehow related with Trump's election.
• 31:10
  It's a noon, like 12: I mean, after Trump is elected, probably Erdoğan and the government thought that they will have a free hand in Turkey.
• 31:18
  It's a noon, like 12: I mean, nobody knows the exact reason except Erdoğan.
• 31:24
  It's a noon, like 12: Yeah, I don't know where to go from that, man.
• 31:27
  It's a noon, like 12: That's pretty bleak.
• 31:29
  It's a noon, like 12: I came here kind of to tell a story about, you know, a country where there were a lot of restrictions and yet great films were still being made.
• 31:37
  It's a noon, like 12: You don't think that that will happen going forward?
• 31:41
  It's a noon, like 12: I mean, of course it's getting more and more difficult.
• 31:44
  It's a noon, like 12: I mean, as I told you, in Iran the conditions are much worse.
• 31:47
  It's a noon, like 12: But still, Iran has a great cinema.
• 31:50
  It's a noon, like 12: Probably some people still continue to shoot films.
• 31:54
  It's a noon, like 12: And we will see what will happen.
• 32:05
  It's a noon, like 12: That night it was a weird trip back to the hotel.
• 32:08
  It's a noon, like 12: I knew from Reuters that outside the jail where İmamoğlu was being held, thousands were protesting, with hundreds arrested.
• 32:14
  It's a noon, like 12: But on my walk to the dock and then on the ferry, there was just resigned quiet.
• 32:19
  It's a noon, like 12: People watching the news on their phones in a daze or just staring out the window, watching the city lights slip by on shore while a busker sitting cross-legged on the floor put the vibe to music.
• 32:41
  It's a noon, like 12: Back in the glamorous old world lobby of the Grand Hotel de Londres, same thing.
• 32:46
  It's a noon, like 12: The only hint anything had changed was when I asked the front desk guy for the day's WiFi password.
• 32:52
  It's a noon, like 12: Do you have an internet code or anything?
• 32:54
  It's a noon, like 12: Yes, there is code, but the internet is very weak because the situation.
• 33:00
  It's a noon, like 12: - The government situation. Yeah.
• 33:00
  It's a noon, like 12: - Oh...
• 33:02
  It's a noon, like 12: That's what he called it,"the government situation".
• 33:05
  It's a noon, like 12: I actually don't know if that's why the internet was weak.
• 33:08
  It's a noon, like 12: It was kind of weak to begin with.
• 33:12
  It's a noon, like 12: Up in my room, went out on the balcony.
• 33:14
  It's a noon, like 12: Same view over the Bosphorus.
• 33:16
  It's a noon, like 12: But this time it was impossible to pretend things haven't changed since 2005.
• 33:22
  It's a noon, like 12: As of this recording, Istanbul's mayor is still in jail, by the way, on alleged corruption charges.
• 33:26
  It's a noon, like 12: And now the regime's jailing more and more of his allies.
• 33:30
  It's a noon, like 12: Meanwhile, in the States, my President has threatened to do the same thing to some of his opposition.
• 33:36
  It's a noon, like 12: It all makes me think about something I'd asked Emin about the harrowing ending of Burning Days.
• 33:45
  It's a noon, like 12: In it, the two heroes, a public prosecutor and a journalist, have tried to expose their town's corrupt elite.
• 33:52
  It's a noon, like 12: Who among other crimes, had been illegally draining the water supply, opening up huge crater-like sinkholes all over town.
• 33:59
  It's a noon, like 12: Now the pair of them are being chased through the desert night by a pack of these howling, laughing elites and their local thugs.
• 34:07
  It's a noon, like 12: They can't wait to kill these guys.
• 34:12
  It's a noon, like 12: But suddenly they have to screech to a stop because in the darkness, they've run right up to the edge of a sinkhole.
• 34:19
  It's a noon, like 12: They shout to each other, terrified.
• 34:21
  It's a noon, like 12: They're pretty sure at least one of them has fallen in.
• 34:27
  It's a noon, like 12: And then they go silent when, in the light of their flashlights, they see the two guys they've been chasing, alive, somehow standing quietly on the far side of the sinkhole.
• 34:40
  It's a noon, like 12: And the people who have been chasing them suddenly feel humbled or scared or something.
• 34:47
  It's a noon, like 12: And it's a really stunning moment, and I'm wondering what you think that means.
• 34:53
  It's a noon, like 12: What is being said there?
• 34:55
  It's a noon, like 12: I mean, for me, it is important that they were stopped by a sinkhole which is created by themselves, actually, by their irresponsible policies.
• 35:04
  It's a noon, like 12: And there are two sides on the edge of the sinkholes.
• 35:08
  It's a noon, like 12: And I just wanted to show that there's a kind of hope.
• 35:14
  It's a noon, like 12: For the time being, now everything is hanging on the edge, but the fight will continue, I just wanted to say this.
• 35:20
  It's a noon, like 12: I was standing in a hotel at the edge of the Bosphorus, a gap between continents crisscrossed with bridges and ferries.
• 35:28
  It's a noon, like 12: There are lots of ways to get to either side.
• 35:42
  It's a noon, like 12: And that's the MUBI Podcast for this season.
• 35:44
  It's a noon, like 12: It has been an honor telling the stories of these amazing cities and their movies.
• 35:48
  It's a noon, like 12: If you're new to the show, skip back a few episodes from my tours through Ireland, Amsterdam, Mexico City, and the strange country of Los Angeles.
• 35:56
  It's a noon, like 12: And follow us wherever you listen so you don't miss an episode.
• 35:59
  It's a noon, like 12: Next time we launch an all new season about some lighter fare just in time for the holidays, we are going to be talking about food on film, starting with the story of maybe the greatest movie about fine dining ever, and how researching it wasn't always easy on the stomach.
• 36:15
  It's a noon, like 12: It's horrible, it's wonderful, and it's horrible because when you've eaten to the point where you're nauseous and you think, I can't have any more, you're about halfway through.
• 36:24
  It's a noon, like 12: Cooking up Pixar's Ratatouille featuring that guy, the film's producer, Brad Lewis.
• 36:28
  It's a noon, like 12: Follow us so you don't miss it.
• 36:30
  It's a noon, like 12: While you're at it, if you love the show, do leave us a five star review and tell the world about us on social media.
• 36:35
  It's a noon, like 12: Let folks know this isn't your standard movie chat show.
• 36:38
  It's a noon, like 12: And if you got questions, comments, or if you want to tell me how to properly pronounce Turkish names, I did my best, people, email us at podcast@mubi.com
• 36:49
  And now let's roll credits: this episode was written and hosted by me, Rico Gagliano.
• 36:52
  And now let's roll credits: Ciara McEniff is our producer.
• 36:53
  And now let's roll credits: Kat Kowalczyk is our assistant producer.
• 36:53
  And now let's roll credits: Christian Koons edited it.
• 36:57
  And now let's roll credits: Michelle Lanz is our story editor.
• 36:59
  And now let's roll credits: Our original music was composed by Martin Austwick.
• 37:02
  And now let's roll credits: Special thanks this week to everyone at MUBI Istanbul, especially Cem Altınsaray and Ilayda Kulaksizoglu.
• 37:08
  And now let's roll credits: The show is executive produced by me along with Efe Çakarel, Daniel Kasman and Michael Tacca.
• 37:13
  And now let's roll credits: And finally to watch the best in cinema subscribe to MUBI at mubi.com Thanks for listening, go watch the movies and travel tip for Istanbul: do buy a rare album by the Turkish folk rock legend Arif Sağ.
• 37:26
  And now let's roll credits: Do not be an idiot and forget it at the Istanbul Airport food court.