Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S6, EP30 - The Gods Don’t Want Worship: Reciprocity in a Heathen Worldview

Transcript

Random Heathen Ramblings: S6, EP30 - The Gods Don’t Want Worship: Reciprocity in a Heathen Worldview · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:01
  When you. Hear the word worship.
• 0:03
  What comes to mind For most of us, it's pews and pulpits,
• 0:08
  kneeling in silence, bowing before a throne in the sky.
• 0:12
  And yes, our ancestors did kneel.
• 0:17
  They did bow. They even did prostate
• 0:20
  themselves in moments of reverence.
• 0:23
  But here's the difference. For them, it wasn't about
• 0:27
  submission to a tyrant God. It was about.
• 0:30
  Piety, humility, and reciprocity.
• 0:35
  They approached the divine with honor, not humiliation.
• 0:40
  The gods were like. Kin.
• 0:42
  Mighty kin, yes. Worthy of gifts, worthy of
• 0:46
  respect. But the.
• 0:48
  Relationship was one of exchange.
• 0:52
  A gift for a gift a. Horn raised of an oath spoken,
• 0:58
  an offering given, and in return blessing, strength and the
• 1:04
  presence of the holy. That's not worship in the
• 1:08
  Christian sense. Of blind obedience that's worth
• 1:13
  ship that's. Relationship and the changes.
• 1:17
  The way we see everything about being heathen today.
• 1:22
  This is the random heathen ramblings.
• 1:24
  Podcast where we talk about. All sorts of things Germanic
• 1:27
  heathen related. My name is Jesse.
• 1:31
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• 6:23
  All right, So anyway. This week's episode.
• 6:27
  What I'm going to be talking with you all about, as you can
• 6:30
  tell from the intro, a little bit of a different intro than
• 6:33
  what you might be used to. But again, if this is your first
• 6:34
  time and you don't know, I wanted to kind of just hook the
• 6:40
  audience, you know? As they say, give give.
• 6:42
  People, something to to hear. First off that that lets.
• 6:46
  Them know what the. Episode is about and ours.
• 6:49
  We are going to be talking about today the.
• 6:52
  Topic or the, the the. You know, thing that I wanted to
• 6:56
  talk about. Was that the gods?
• 6:59
  Don't want worship in in the sense of of worship that that we
• 7:05
  might think of from a traditional like Christian or or
• 7:10
  other, you know, contemporary religious.
• 7:14
  View of the word. You know the gods don't want
• 7:17
  worship. We're.
• 7:19
  Going to talk today about a bit of.
• 7:20
  That and reciprocity because I saw a comment on a recent.
• 7:26
  Video. Actually, it was.
• 7:27
  It was an older video. It was a video that I posted.
• 7:29
  Five years ago on my YouTube channel before I was really
• 7:33
  doing. Podcasts.
• 7:35
  Regularly, you know, like my content at the time wasn't.
• 7:38
  Devoted to. Podcasting it was, you know,
• 7:41
  uploading stuff about Heathenry and my journey in Heathenry at
• 7:45
  the time and this video was. A very vibrant topic that gets
• 7:52
  talked about pretty regularly. Or at least.
• 7:54
  I've seen it pop pop up a lot in different forums and that is the
• 7:58
  the that of kneeling in heathenry you know, or, or
• 8:02
  humbling. Ourselves to the gods or.
• 8:03
  Or, you know, bowing or even laying prostate you know to in
• 8:11
  front of the. Gods.
• 8:15
  Or in, in in front of. Deity to show our reverence.
• 8:20
  You know, in piety and then how? You know, there's a lot.
• 8:23
  Of folks that have come across Heathenry from Christianity and
• 8:28
  other monotheistic religions that are coming up with.
• 8:31
  This idea or that have been fed this idea?
• 8:33
  This notion that, you know, we do not kneel before our gods, we
• 8:36
  don't kneel to the gods, we approach them standing and all
• 8:38
  this, you know, macho type stuff.
• 8:40
  And there is very. Clear historical evidence that.
• 8:46
  The pre Christian Germanic peoples definitely approached
• 8:50
  the gods with a sense of reverence, with a sense of piety
• 8:55
  that involved sometimes them lowering their physical stature
• 9:00
  to be beneath. Or to be low.
• 9:04
  And to be again showing in that that that that reference or that
• 9:08
  respect. To the sacred and.
• 9:10
  Then we're going to talk a. Little bit about that I've I've
• 9:13
  talked about a lot. Of my social media platforms, I
• 9:16
  have also written an article. About it which I'll.
• 9:18
  Link down below on my blog site Random heathenramblings.com.
• 9:24
  So you could read it. If you want to, but the comment
• 9:28
  that I was wanting to do this episode in sort of a response to
• 9:34
  was on a video. That I did about this topic five
• 9:36
  years ago. Back in like 2020 I think is
• 9:38
  what is when it was and. The there's a lot.
• 9:44
  There's a lot of different comments, but basically I'll,
• 9:46
  I'll link the video if you want to go watch it.
• 9:50
  And it's, you know, comments from just recent, recent in
• 9:53
  2025, you know, so a lot of the comments that are there are from
• 9:56
  back when the video first posted.
• 9:58
  But somehow this video got, you know, brought up into, you know,
• 10:03
  the algorithm. They'd, they'd put it out in
• 10:05
  front of somebody or somebody's and this person decided to, to
• 10:08
  comment and they were commenting in the, in the sense that you
• 10:12
  know that, you know, this, this notion, this idea of kneeling
• 10:17
  or. Whatever to the gods was.
• 10:18
  Was more like something that was man made.
• 10:23
  Or or or told to other people. You know, told to people by
• 10:28
  other people. You know, so it wasn't something
• 10:30
  that the gods ever demanded and and whatever that it was
• 10:33
  something that. Was taught or?
• 10:39
  Learned from from other people, not something that the gods
• 10:44
  themselves ever demanded. So.
• 10:49
  I wanted to kind of key in on on those comments specifically in
• 10:53
  that video and and talk a bit about this and that they don't
• 10:56
  want worship, you know, and worship in the in the sense.
• 10:59
  Of what the the the word worship?
• 11:02
  Means in a heathen context so as as I like to do a lot of times.
• 11:09
  Is to look at references or or or sources that talk about this
• 11:15
  topic. You know, because.
• 11:16
  A lot of folks. Will, you know, approach
• 11:21
  Heathenry in a couple different ways, you know, depending on the
• 11:24
  the the version of Heathenry that you choosing.
• 11:26
  To to adopt. You can approach it from a very
• 11:30
  historically reconstructed reconstructionist point of view.
• 11:34
  You can kind of be a little bit middle of the road where you're
• 11:38
  interested. In the historical sides of.
• 11:40
  Things but you're not so much. Devoted or or dedicated?
• 11:44
  To reconstructing the religion into.
• 11:46
  The way that it was. You're more, you know,
• 11:49
  interested in the history but not really in applying.
• 11:53
  The historical parts to what you practice.
• 11:57
  And then there's others who might.
• 11:58
  Just take the history part. Of things and and.
• 12:02
  You know. Avoid it, not interested in it
• 12:06
  and they come up with their own ways of doing things.
• 12:08
  Very new agey modern neo Pagan type things.
• 12:12
  And I'm not here to encourage or discourage you from doing any of
• 12:16
  those things or not it's. Whatever you decide that.
• 12:20
  You want to do, but from my perspective, I I definitely like
• 12:25
  to learn. More towards the historical
• 12:26
  sides. Of things so that way I know.
• 12:28
  How to? Carry that into the modern day
• 12:32
  into and and carry. It forth because these ways
• 12:35
  these these folk ways these. Traditions from a culture were
• 12:42
  important to the people that believe them, and they should be
• 12:46
  important to the people that want that that that come from
• 12:49
  that heritage and that want to preserve.
• 12:52
  The the fire. You know I want to.
• 12:55
  Preserve those traditions, so one.
• 12:58
  Of the ways that we. Do that is to look at source.
• 13:00
  Materials and and. Whether it be lore or the sagas.
• 13:03
  You know, and when I say lore as a source, you know, believe me,
• 13:07
  I'm not the type of person. I'm never I'm not the type of
• 13:10
  heathen that looks at the mythology.
• 13:12
  As if it were facts. I mean, it's I know what lore is
• 13:17
  and I know that mythology is myth and and lore is lore and,
• 13:20
  and the sagas are even maybe, you know, based around actual
• 13:25
  people and things that happened or that existed, but that.
• 13:30
  A saga is a saga. And it, and it makes it to be
• 13:34
  much more embellished and much more excitable and much more,
• 13:38
  you know. Storytelling worthy that you
• 13:43
  know with. Lessons and and all that
• 13:45
  involved. So we're going to look at some
• 13:48
  of that. We're going to look at some
• 13:49
  other, you know, historical. Like, you know, archaeological.
• 13:54
  Things. Things that are actually.
• 13:56
  I. Don't know evidence that of what
• 14:01
  we're going to be talking about. So there's my approach to things
• 14:04
  and if if it interest you and it and it causes you to want to
• 14:08
  explore more than great. And if it doesn't, hey, thanks
• 14:11
  at least for for taking the time to listen.
• 14:13
  Or maybe you know, this isn't your thing and and you decided
• 14:15
  that that you know, you'll go in and and then do it your way.
• 14:20
  So whichever it is, which however you want to do it, let's
• 14:22
  get into it. So from a lore and historical
• 14:25
  reference point of view, very you know, when we talk about the
• 14:27
  worship and Worth ship I mentioned early on Worth.
• 14:30
  Ship. You may be wondering what is
• 14:32
  even that We're going to get into the to the word meaning.
• 14:36
  It is an Old English. It comes from an Old English
• 14:40
  worshiper. I believe is the OR or or or
• 14:44
  Wertha Shippa. Wertha Shippa.
• 14:47
  And I'm not an old. I'm I'm not a linguist.
• 14:50
  So if you know anybody out here that listens or watches this and
• 14:52
  is and is 1 if if my old English pronunciation isn't good, it's.
• 14:58
  Because I haven't studied. Enough of the language to know
• 15:02
  the right pronunciation of it, but I.
• 15:03
  Believe. The old English word is.
• 15:07
  Wertha ship, so it means worth ship.
• 15:12
  And it is the ancestor. Or or word.
• 15:14
  Cognate that it That is our modern word worship.
• 15:18
  The word originally meant to acknowledge the worth of
• 15:23
  something. So that's where we're going to
• 15:28
  look at the the meaning of worship from in today's episode.
• 15:33
  We're going to look at it from the Old English.
• 15:35
  Word Wertha shipper or Werth shipper?
• 15:40
  Yeah, Werth shipper. It's all right to acknowledge
• 15:46
  the. The worth of OK, so.
• 15:49
  Now that we know that, now that we know that that's what we're
• 15:51
  going to be going with, let's let's peel some of the layers
• 15:54
  back and and go through what some of the lore or historical
• 15:57
  references say. About.
• 16:02
  Our relationship with the gods and our relationship with the
• 16:04
  divine as heathens, one of the most.
• 16:07
  Popular sources that people like to go to.
• 16:10
  Heathens like to go to is the poetic edda and specifically a
• 16:14
  poem in the. Poetic Edda called the.
• 16:16
  Hovamal or words of the High One.
• 16:19
  So the Hovamal is very explicit about the importance of gift
• 16:22
  giving. Stanza 42 is something along the
• 16:25
  lines of that a man, a man should be a friend to his friend
• 16:28
  and. Repay gift for gift.
• 16:29
  There's other translations that say something a.
• 16:32
  Little bit differently word wise but but the spirit of what?
• 16:35
  That stanza is saying is you know again, a man should be a
• 16:39
  friend to his friend in exchange gift.
• 16:42
  For gifts. And this isn't just about our
• 16:46
  relationships with people. It can.
• 16:52
  Also apply. The principle can also apply and
• 16:55
  be extended to the sacred, to the divine So.
• 17:01
  When we look at what? The heathen act of gifting.
• 17:07
  Was, you know, in sacrifices or bloat as it's called, these acts
• 17:15
  in the. In the in the things that were
• 17:16
  being done. Where you know they were.
• 17:19
  Offerings that were given with an expectation to receive a
• 17:24
  blessing or protection or favor in return from the gods.
• 17:30
  Right. So bloat is exchange.
• 17:35
  Bloat is not a like. It's not done in submission, it
• 17:40
  is done. Through the.
• 17:42
  Act of the gifting exchange, the gifts, the gifting cycle.
• 17:47
  That word bloat we hear. It often referenced I forget how
• 17:51
  many dozens if not hundreds of times.
• 17:54
  Throughout the various sources. Mentions this word bloat and it
• 17:59
  and it it is it is a word that that basically means sacrifice,
• 18:03
  but it's also a word that could be seen as meaning to
• 18:06
  strengthen. If you have ever read or know of
• 18:08
  who Rudolf Simek is, his his. Book that he wrote I.
• 18:15
  Believe. It's called the direct.
• 18:17
  Dictionary of Northern Mythology He he he points back to the to.
• 18:23
  A word the word bloat. As also meaning.
• 18:27
  Besides the the the whole. Sacrifice and the exchange and
• 18:30
  gift and that sort of thing is to, to strengthen.
• 18:33
  So when bloat was done historically, it was done with
• 18:37
  animals. It was also done with, you know,
• 18:41
  and sometimes with with. Very rare.
• 18:43
  Cases. Very specific cases.
• 18:44
  Humans we see this in in in the around the 11th century when
• 18:48
  Adam of Bremen describes the great nine year bloat or nine
• 18:52
  year sacrifice at in old Uppsala, Sweden.
• 18:58
  So that's, that's another source that that, you know, we see the
• 19:03
  99 of of everything or 9 of of, of, you know, 99 livestock, 9
• 19:09
  men, 9 humans, 9 slaves. I think they were.
• 19:13
  But again, the act was done not as a submission, but.
• 19:17
  It was a. It was a renewal, renewal.
• 19:20
  Of reciprocity, a reciprocal. Contract between the people and
• 19:28
  the gods so every nine years this was done to sort of renew
• 19:33
  that contract and to give a give these gifts in exchange for
• 19:39
  right the blessings the favor and all this of.
• 19:41
  Of of the Holy of the Sacred. So when bloat was done, it was
• 19:50
  again the animals that. Were sacrificed were.
• 19:54
  Almost certainly eaten and consumed by the people, but the
• 19:59
  blood of the animals were. Was what the the the bloat of
• 20:04
  the of the sacrifice to the gods?
• 20:08
  That's what it was. It was.
• 20:09
  The blood of the animal. So a lot of.
• 20:13
  Historically focused and and reconstructionist heathens will
• 20:18
  maintain that you cannot perform bloat without blood, without an
• 20:23
  animal being sacrificed in the process.
• 20:28
  So if that's your angle, if that's your position and that
• 20:30
  you wanted to maintain it, it would.
• 20:33
  Likely be a very historically. Backed position to to hold so
• 20:41
  and I've maintained it as well. I I don't see any reason why
• 20:43
  it's it's. It would be incorrect.
• 20:47
  To say that bloat specifically involves blood, the.
• 20:51
  Blood of animals that are killed and then.
• 20:54
  The the the the flesh of witches is is.
• 20:56
  Eaten by the people. The blood is is gifted.
• 20:58
  Or and given to the. Gods as as the gift, other ways
• 21:06
  of of. Maintaining the gifting cycle
• 21:10
  can be done. Through other ways, Through
• 21:13
  other. Offerings or feignings?
• 21:16
  Other sources reference this as well.
• 21:18
  So like, you know, yeah, especially like the the.
• 21:23
  The source of Ibn fadlon, Ahmed Ibn Ibn fadlon and the land of
• 21:27
  darkness his his retelling or. His observations of the Swedish.
• 21:32
  Ruse, you know when he spent time with them and their when
• 21:37
  they would come in from. Off their ships they would.
• 21:41
  It says that he that they would. Come to this large.
• 21:48
  I forget the exact words that get that gets used, but
• 21:51
  basically a God. Pole or or an idol?
• 21:54
  Of sorts, that was. Dedicated to some sort of deity
• 21:57
  and that they would prostate themselves.
• 21:59
  They would lay themselves in front of this and bring gifts of
• 22:02
  things from the foreign lands. You know, the, the, the honey,
• 22:05
  the the milk, the, the foods and this and that.
• 22:08
  These were offerings. To this deity.
• 22:11
  So giving of of food or drink or libations, you know, these are
• 22:16
  definitely. Acceptable ways to.
• 22:19
  Enter into the gifting cycle and do so in such a way.
• 22:23
  Where your body is lower. We're not standing up where you
• 22:27
  are, either bowing or kneeling or prostrating yourself.
• 22:30
  Before the Holy over before the figures of the Holy.
• 22:34
  These are historically backed. Methods of doing so.
• 22:41
  Another great source that gets cited a lot.
• 22:44
  When it comes to pre Christian Germanic people behaviors and
• 22:48
  and and how they interacted with not just themselves.
• 22:51
  But with their holy powers. Another source that gets
• 22:54
  referenced a lot. Is Tacitus so in his Germania
• 22:58
  around 98, the year 98 of the Common era?
• 23:02
  He describes the practices. Of the Germanic.
• 23:05
  Peoples as communal. You know, they were done
• 23:07
  together in sacred Groves. There were assemblies.
• 23:12
  There was not. There was not really was not
• 23:17
  really. Described as this like
• 23:19
  hierarchical hierarchical structure of.
• 23:26
  You know, you definitely had. Like.
• 23:28
  When he when he talks about divination, he talks about, you
• 23:31
  know, lots that were cast and, and if you know.
• 23:33
  It was a public affair. There would be a a a sort of
• 23:37
  priest figure that would that would do it.
• 23:41
  But the assembly, you know. That was it was the gods.
• 23:44
  Were were honored as. Part of the people's.
• 23:46
  Extended lying, You know, like a lot of the a lot of the Germanic
• 23:52
  people's. Believe that the gods were.
• 23:54
  Ancestors, you know that they came from them.
• 23:57
  We see this in the the Eng Lingus dynasty or the England
• 24:01
  dynasty. Of the Swedes Who?
• 24:03
  Who? Trace their lineage.
• 24:04
  Back to the God. Engvi or Engvi?
• 24:07
  Freyer Later on it became Freyr. And the the Germanic peoples,
• 24:15
  the Germanic tribes trace themselves back to a God.
• 24:19
  Figure of their belief. In, you know, in called twisto.
• 24:24
  So having divinity, having the having their figures of divinity
• 24:32
  acknowledged as extended kin or or or ancestors is a theme that
• 24:38
  we. See repeated throughout.
• 24:41
  More than just a couple. Bits of of literature through
• 24:45
  whether it be. Lore or sagas or historical, you
• 24:50
  know, whether eyewitness or or or hearsay, sort of sort of
• 24:55
  retellings and modern. Scholars have have backed this
• 25:03
  up a lot. HR.
• 25:04
  Ellis Davidson, who? If you have never.
• 25:06
  Heard of the book called The Road to Hell?
• 25:09
  Or Gods and myths of Northern Europe HR Ellis Davidson is a
• 25:14
  absolutely credible and then a must you know for for anybody
• 25:19
  really wanting and interested to getting into the.
• 25:23
  To good. Information about about
• 25:26
  Heathenry. She's definitely a person.
• 25:28
  To to to to add to your library of.
• 25:31
  Books and and things to read but in in HRL is Davidson's Gods and
• 25:35
  Myths of Northern. Europe, she definitely
• 25:37
  emphasizes the. Reciprocity and kinship model of
• 25:44
  of the people. And the gods, so they they, they
• 25:47
  did see. Them as as divinity, as as holy
• 25:53
  as as something to again be acknowledged worth of and in
• 25:58
  worth. Ship or wirthship?
• 26:02
  But in in the context of, you know, distant kin, extended kin
• 26:05
  or or ancestors going beyond just literature, OK.
• 26:15
  If you look at archaeological. Finds you know and or evidence.
• 26:22
  I am not the greatest when it comes to knowing all of the
• 26:25
  various locations of things archaeologically, but I do know.
• 26:29
  That we see. Plenty of signs of ritual sites
• 26:35
  being done in. Places like bogs sacrifices.
• 26:39
  Of things like weapons and animals and again sometimes even
• 26:43
  humans going back to the whole atom of Bremen around the 11th
• 26:46
  century these locations, the bogs and and and some of these
• 26:52
  these. Sites.
• 26:53
  These weren't just randomly selected.
• 26:56
  Oh, this looks like a good idea, a good spot.
• 26:58
  Let's do. Here, No, they weren't.
• 26:59
  They these things weren't done at random or selected at random.
• 27:04
  They were intended with, you know, purpose.
• 27:08
  There was an intentional exchange being done at at these
• 27:13
  locations, in these locations because we see them being
• 27:16
  repeated so many different times with the with that intent and
• 27:22
  with that purpose, you know? There was.
• 27:25
  Definitely, you know, you can see things like thanks or
• 27:29
  petitioning divine power being done.
• 27:31
  Neil Price, some people like to refer to him to has a book
• 27:35
  called The Viking Way Magic in mind in in the late Iron Age of
• 27:40
  Scandinavia I think. So it's a it's.
• 27:44
  Again, it's, it's a modern scholar, but it's, you know,
• 27:49
  and, and, and he's referring to or looking at things from the
• 27:51
  late Iron Age of Scandinavia when we're already looking past
• 27:56
  or around when, when the, the Scandinavian people were were
• 28:02
  doing their thing and right around or before the time they
• 28:05
  were becoming Christianized, but they were still doing things of
• 28:08
  a, of a Pagan way, you know. Sacrifices and bogs of of.
• 28:11
  Blaze weapons, animals, sometimes people.
• 28:16
  Again, they these are in these sites and it's it's it's obvious
• 28:19
  that they. Were done intentionally.
• 28:24
  For the reasons that I. Just stated so going back to the
• 28:29
  old, you know. Where's the Shippa?
• 28:31
  Where's? Where's the Shippa?
• 28:33
  I wonder why I'm adding. A A A A A A a.
• 28:36
  In between the. The the F.
• 28:38
  And the and the. SH Sound.
• 28:40
  But it's Weyerth Weyerth Shippa, Weyerth Shippa so worth ship is
• 28:46
  the ancestor. Word to our modern day English
• 28:48
  word worship and it means to acknowledge the worth of
• 28:52
  something so as. Gets done a lot of times over.
• 28:57
  Time, Christians and and the theology of Christian mindset
• 29:01
  shifted this word from what it initially meant into something
• 29:07
  that means more like adoration or, you know, submission,
• 29:15
  submitting yourself to this high and holy power.
• 29:21
  Again, that's not what heathens believed.
• 29:27
  It's not what the dramatic heathens believed.
• 29:30
  So Heathenry in modern day has. Kind of lost the sense.
• 29:37
  Of the meaning of that word that that it's.
• 29:38
  True, and it's original word. So what we?
• 29:42
  Hope to do right. Is is to reclaim the the the
• 29:46
  true meaning of that word? And.
• 29:51
  Show. And show that in our.
• 29:54
  Deeds you know with with how our.
• 29:57
  Behavior is with how we act with how we interact.
• 29:59
  With the divine. You know, showing.
• 30:01
  Honor. Showing respect, Piety.
• 30:04
  Because we deem them worthy. We, we, we have deemed that the
• 30:09
  gods are worth it. You know what I mean?
• 30:13
  The Worth ship. Worship is worth it.
• 30:21
  So. Going back to that comment.
• 30:25
  That I was, you know, reading on that video from five years.
• 30:29
  Ago and and hearing. You know, reading what somebody
• 30:32
  said about that, this, this concept of kneeling or, or, you
• 30:36
  know, lowering ourselves and, and themselves to the gods was
• 30:39
  something that had to be told or taught.
• 30:42
  I mean, everything has been told or taught over time.
• 30:46
  And if if what was? Told and what was taught.
• 30:49
  Was that the gods? Are worth this if it they are
• 30:52
  worth our respect. They are worth our our piety,
• 30:55
  our our veterans, you know. Because of their greatness.
• 30:59
  Because of the great. Things that they have done.
• 31:01
  Look at our ancestors, look at where they come from.
• 31:03
  Look at our lineage, look at our heritage, look at the.
• 31:06
  Look at where we come. From right.
• 31:08
  And so it's not like. We're kneeling out of fear of
• 31:13
  them being, you know, these great and mighty, benevolent,
• 31:17
  all powerful. Omnipotent You.
• 31:19
  Know omniscient beings? No, we.
• 31:22
  We. Approach them with.
• 31:25
  With respect. And with honor with.
• 31:27
  With piety. Knowing that they are.
• 31:28
  Worth it that they are. Worth that degree of respect.
• 31:37
  So I don't know, seems to be a modern.
• 31:43
  Misconception. I think the whole why to Neil,
• 31:47
  you know, because a lot of people will go and say.
• 31:49
  OK, Yeah. Well, that's what the sources.
• 31:50
  Say you know, but what? Why?
• 31:51
  Why does that mean anything? Now you know what?
• 31:56
  What is it? What?
• 31:58
  Does that have to do with how we're doing?
• 32:00
  It today. This isn't the 12th century.
• 32:01
  This isn't the 11th century. We're not living 2000 years ago.
• 32:05
  Well, no shit. I mean, I know that and I'm not
• 32:08
  delusional to to say that. And I guess you.
• 32:13
  Know my whole thing is. That you know when you're, when
• 32:15
  you're learning. About.
• 32:18
  An old. Way of doing something and
• 32:20
  you're. Going back so far to.
• 32:22
  Learn about how it was done. There's meaning.
• 32:25
  In that. There was meaning in what?
• 32:27
  In the way that it was done and and for it to change arbitrarily
• 32:31
  just because. We're not living back then.
• 32:33
  Anymore doesn't. I don't see why we.
• 32:37
  Should do that, you know. Definitely there are certain
• 32:40
  things that don't apply anymore. You know, the whole like going
• 32:45
  to Adam and Bremen and then seeing, you know, the nine year
• 32:47
  sacrifice included humans. I definitely don't think that
• 32:51
  that's the thing that needs to happen anymore or should happen
• 32:54
  anymore. And I've, I've, I've, you know,
• 32:57
  seen and heard of, of things that have happened where people
• 33:00
  have been harmed and, and killed for stuff like.
• 33:04
  This thinking that it was. You know, doing the gods work.
• 33:08
  You know, or. Doing it for the gods and all
• 33:10
  that twistedness, terrible things that that have no place
• 33:14
  in in our modern day now, a lot of things don't have a place.
• 33:19
  In our modern times. A lot of.
• 33:22
  Things back then were messed. Up, you know, and they didn't
• 33:26
  they, you know, just to. Dismiss it.
• 33:28
  As being well, you know, that's, that's the 9th.
• 33:31
  Century. For you, you know, I mean.
• 33:35
  I don't think it's any. Excuse, it just is what it is.
• 33:37
  Or it was what it was, but it doesn't excuse.
• 33:40
  That. Behavior.
• 33:41
  It doesn't. Excuse it and it definitely
• 33:43
  doesn't have a place now and today.
• 33:47
  So. These modern misconceptions of
• 33:50
  why you know why I think you know, people that have that have
• 33:53
  converted, maybe not convert is the right word that gets used,
• 33:58
  misused to people who have. Found Heathenry and have left.
• 34:01
  Christianity you know and have found their way home to
• 34:03
  heathenry. Think I I.
• 34:08
  Think initially that because of their world.
• 34:10
  Views from Christianity. They they come into heathenry
• 34:12
  with this. Baggage that needs to be tear
• 34:16
  torn apart. A bit and and deconstructed
• 34:20
  sometimes dismantled and and they come into Heathenry and I
• 34:25
  was, you know guilty of this too, coming into Heathenry with
• 34:28
  this concept of what the. Gods are by coming up with that.
• 34:35
  From a Christian worldview, seeing the gods as figures of
• 34:40
  you know. To, to, to, to be looked at and
• 34:44
  to be viewed at as the same as the Christian God.
• 34:47
  And it's just not, it's just not that it's reciprocity in
• 34:51
  practice, you know, gift giving, oath giving, toasting, boasting,
• 34:57
  all these things of service. Where ways of.
• 35:03
  Entering into contracts, you know, reciprocal contracts.
• 35:09
  Even the oath was. Was reciprocal, you know.
• 35:16
  People were held up to. A standard.
• 35:18
  And and expected to. Make good on their.
• 35:21
  On their oath and it was everybody's luck was on the
• 35:24
  line. You wouldn't just say you were
• 35:28
  going to. Do something.
• 35:29
  And and make an oath of it without there.
• 35:32
  Being. Severe consequences if the oath
• 35:34
  was broken. Because.
• 35:37
  You not doing what you. Say you're going to do not
• 35:39
  following up with what you're saying you're going to do is is.
• 35:42
  Bad luck. It it's it's and it's not just.
• 35:45
  Your luck that gets. Damaged.
• 35:46
  It's not just your. Honor that gets.
• 35:48
  Damaged. It's the luck of others too.
• 35:51
  So it's serious business, you know, it's, it's reciprocity and
• 35:57
  practice and. You know when.
• 36:02
  We talk about these things from a modern context.
• 36:04
  It does matter to me, at least it, it does matter today.
• 36:07
  And the reason why it matters is, you know, shifting the
• 36:11
  mindset from dependence on divinity, the gods, you know, to
• 36:15
  do something for me to, to, to pray to, to, to.
• 36:18
  To kneel to to. Lay down to prostate yourself
• 36:21
  before. This God and to pray.
• 36:22
  To them to do something for you or or relying and and and
• 36:28
  depending on divine authority. That has to be.
• 36:36
  We have to shift away from that. And approach it as.
• 36:40
  Is a more. These are our, you know, these
• 36:43
  are. We are descendants of them.
• 36:45
  There is divinity. Within us as a result of.
• 36:48
  These these these figures of of of holiness, these figures of of
• 36:52
  our gods and goddesses. They are.
• 36:55
  Reflections of. Ourselves we we see.
• 36:58
  Ourselves, in them we see. You know when.
• 37:03
  The The Rage of Thor. We see that in ourselves and we
• 37:05
  get. Upset and and and.
• 37:08
  React, you know the. Deception of old and the the
• 37:13
  the. All the various things.
• 37:16
  About the gods you know, even. The the good things.
• 37:18
  Too, you know, the the good and the bad and the ugly, all of the
• 37:22
  various. Things.
• 37:23
  One of my next guests on that I'm going to be having soon.
• 37:28
  By the time you guys listen to. This I should have already
• 37:31
  interviewed him. I was recently on his podcast A
• 37:34
  Relentless Pursuit. Relentless pursuit.
• 37:37
  Podcast he his name is Joe, he's Pagan as well and he's not sure
• 37:45
  exactly how long he's been doing it.
• 37:46
  He's been doing it for a while and he wrote a really amazing.
• 37:51
  Article. I guess you could say or or.
• 37:54
  He wrote something with some. Some somewhat like a poem with.
• 37:59
  With a lot of references of of. 12 different gods of the of the
• 38:03
  Norris or Germanic pantheon and the comparisons.
• 38:11
  With them to the. The.
• 38:13
  The the the Christ figure and and.
• 38:15
  All the various virtues and things about what everybody
• 38:19
  likes. About Jesus Christ, you know?
• 38:23
  And and his perfection and and all these things, finding each
• 38:28
  of those. Like finding all of that.
• 38:30
  In each of the 12 gods, that he, that he.
• 38:32
  Mentions and it's a. Poem that I'm hoping, I'm going
• 38:34
  to ask him, hoping that he that I get to that we get to hear, if
• 38:41
  not hearing it then then hopefully he publishes it soon
• 38:44
  'cause he read it to me and I was like, dude, you got to
• 38:45
  publish that. Like you got to put it
• 38:47
  somewhere. Put it up on your website.
• 38:48
  Put it. Put it.
• 38:50
  Somewhere read it. Aloud.
• 38:51
  I don't know, and I'm hoping that you guys get to hear it.
• 38:53
  Because this is this is is beautiful.
• 38:55
  I mean. I don't have to be.
• 38:59
  Christian. I don't have to be Christian to
• 39:00
  to appreciate what he did. And.
• 39:04
  Then and and you don't have to be even to appreciate it either.
• 39:06
  It's it's. It's just humanity.
• 39:08
  You know, it, it's, it's, it's really good stuff.
• 39:12
  So shifting like I said again. You know why it might matters
• 39:15
  today for us to to look at these.
• 39:18
  Historical sources and and all the things.
• 39:20
  About, you know. Why the gods don't?
• 39:23
  Want our worship. They want the reciprocity.
• 39:27
  They want that. You know.
• 39:32
  Agency of. Ourselves to be accountable, you
• 39:35
  know, and honor, you know, living in ways that is.
• 39:41
  Honorable, that's what it. Means to be heathen.
• 39:42
  That is what it is to be a good heathen.
• 39:44
  Now is is is. Living in ways that are, that is
• 39:47
  honorable, that is a. Preservation of honor.
• 39:54
  So, you know, shifting our mindset away from this whole
• 39:56
  dependence on the gods, you know, and, and the gods need to
• 39:59
  help. Me, I'm I'm feeling.
• 40:00
  So disconnected from the gods. Well, maybe they're maybe you
• 40:03
  have them set so far up and so far out that you're losing that
• 40:07
  connection with what is within. Realizing that they come from we
• 40:11
  come from them. There is, there is this long
• 40:13
  line, there is this you know. Taproot that.
• 40:16
  We can connect with. And that the divinity is.
• 40:20
  Within us, we don't have to look outside.
• 40:22
  We don't have to look up. We don't have to, you know, but
• 40:26
  when we do interact with them as these figures, when we do enter
• 40:30
  into sacred space to. Connect with that.
• 40:33
  Holiness to connect with that. And to to.
• 40:36
  To, you know, acknowledge the worth.
• 40:41
  Of it it is that we are doing so.
• 40:43
  In a way that is respectful. It is that we are doing it.
• 40:46
  In a way. That is pious it.
• 40:49
  Is humble. It is thankful.
• 40:56
  And. That we are doing it.
• 40:57
  For the reasons of hoping for. That behavior, that that action
• 41:03
  and the things that. Come with that action.
• 41:04
  The gifts that we give are not only being received, but that
• 41:08
  they are being. Acknowledged and.
• 41:11
  Then gifts are being returned to us, so we are not going into
• 41:15
  this space. We are not being told to do it
• 41:17
  because we're afraid. Of the gods, and we want their
• 41:19
  blessings, no. We're doing it because we honor
• 41:21
  them. We respect them as ancestors, as
• 41:25
  parts of ourselves. You know that we connect.
• 41:28
  With that in that way to. Give back.
• 41:34
  For what they've given to us. So that is where I'm coming.
• 41:43
  From with all this, you know you can do whatever you want.
• 41:47
  It's you know you can be. Kneeling and.
• 41:51
  And look like, not you know whether you do.
• 41:54
  Or not. Doesn't.
• 41:56
  Make you a better heathen. Than the next person, I don't
• 41:58
  think it's, it's nothing like that.
• 42:00
  And don't take, don't take what I say and and allow that to be
• 42:03
  the thing that determines whether or not you're a good
• 42:07
  heathen or a good person. Or not it's.
• 42:09
  These are just things that I'm that I'm adding to what I've
• 42:12
  already said. 'Cause you know again, even.
• 42:17
  With the what source? Materials that we have about
• 42:20
  this very thing, it's pretty. Clear that even with that you.
• 42:24
  Know the. The the the.
• 42:26
  They weren't doing it all the time.
• 42:28
  It was. It was at specific.
• 42:29
  Times and it was for. Specific reasons you know, So
• 42:33
  whether you do it or not, whether you.
• 42:38
  Position yourself in. Such a way to the gods and with
• 42:42
  you know and all that that that that.
• 42:44
  Reflects a sort of humbleness. And and that you're lowering
• 42:47
  yourself positionally. I mean, whether you do that or
• 42:54
  not all the time is is it's your.
• 42:56
  It's your choice, your haul, your call.
• 42:58
  All right as Eric Sherwin. Used to say so, but yeah, you
• 43:05
  can check out that video. It's it's going to be linked
• 43:08
  down below if you're watching this in the in the description
• 43:11
  area of the of the video on Patreon, or you can head over to
• 43:15
  the show notes if you're listening and it should be
• 43:17
  linked over there as well. I'll put.
• 43:20
  The name of the of the video too on my channel.
• 43:22
  So if you're. If if for whatever reason the
• 43:25
  links don't. Work or you're you're not able
• 43:27
  to to to. Follow the link then you.
• 43:29
  Can just go to my YouTube channel and search the name of
• 43:32
  the video and it'll be there so. All the.
• 43:36
  Information is down below or in the show notes, wherever it is
• 43:38
  that you. See all that stuff wherever
• 43:40
  you're catching this, so check it out.
• 43:42
  And leave a comment cause again, it's.
• 43:45
  It's always weird to me how you know older older content
• 43:54
  resurfaces. You know at at the.
• 43:57
  At the most interesting of times, the weirdest of.
• 44:00
  Times I say weird. Meaning WYRD.
• 44:03
  The weirdest of times. So it resurfaced for a reason.
• 44:10
  We're talking. About it again now, and that's
• 44:13
  fine by me. It's what the.
• 44:14
  It's what the podcast is for. It's why we do this.
• 44:20
  And if you like what we do. Here if you like what goes on on
• 44:22
  this. On this On this show again,
• 44:25
  please consider becoming a patron on Patreon.
• 44:28
  That $1.00 pledge does a lot. More than.
• 44:31
  What you think it might and it's and it's really no skin off your
• 44:35
  teeth or or skin off your back or however the phrase goes.
• 44:38
  Nowadays. So thank you if you are so
• 44:42
  inclined and and want to support in that way, but at the very
• 44:45
  least. Share these episodes around.
• 44:48
  Share them on your social platforms.
• 44:50
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• 44:54
  communities themselves, so definitely share.
• 45:01
  It around if if if. Nothing else help the word get
• 45:04
  spread. That way.
• 45:06
  So that's all for. This week, I hope you all
• 45:08
  enjoyed this episode. If you did upload it like it,
• 45:12
  you know interact. Or engage with the.
• 45:15
  With it in that way. If you can, and thank you so
• 45:19
  very much for all your constant ongoing support.
• 45:21
  If you're catching this live on the day that it airs, don't
• 45:24
  forget the next podcast. Live stream.
• 45:28
  Is happening on Monday, August 25th and that'll be on Facebook
• 45:31
  and YouTube. So catch me over there.
• 45:34
  Watch the live stream, ask your questions.
• 45:38
  I'll give you shouts. Out shout outs on the screen
• 45:41
  when you do that and hope to see you there so.
• 45:44
  Thank you all. So very much until we see each
• 45:47
  other again, may the gods continue to notice you, and may
• 45:51
  your ancestors smile upon you. See you in the next one.