Latest / The You Project / #1989 Mirror Neurons, Ninja Cats & Psychopaths - David Gillespie

Transcript

#1989 Mirror Neurons, Ninja Cats & Psychopaths - David Gillespie · The You Project

0:01
Speaker 1: I got a team.
0:01
Speaker 2: It's Stiff and David, It's me, Craig, Anthony, Harper's you project,
0:06
Speaker 2: it's you, It's us, It's the whole bloody vibe.
0:08
Speaker 3: Tiv Hi, Why Harps?
0:10
Speaker 4: How are you?
0:11
Speaker 1: Well?
0:11
Speaker 2: We've had quite the production before the actual production. And
0:15
Speaker 2: you were out there just punching on with your cat
0:17
Speaker 2: and nothing but love coming from your gob Who won?
0:22
Speaker 1: You were the cat?
0:23
Speaker 3: It was a draw? It was a draw.
0:25
Speaker 1: What was that little fucker doing?
0:28
Speaker 4: So?
0:28
Speaker 5: I've got a box of about a dog toilet paper,
0:32
Speaker 5: which is like, who gives a crap? But this one
0:35
Speaker 5: helps dogs, right, And so it's rolls of toilet paper
0:39
Speaker 5: in a big box behind my door. And she got
0:42
Speaker 5: inside that box and was rummaging around. She does that
0:46
Speaker 5: because she knows.
0:47
Speaker 6: I'm on a podcast.
0:49
Speaker 2: So does she literally just do that for attention? Do
0:52
Speaker 2: you think yes?
0:52
Speaker 5: Because she literally will start this stuff when she knows.
0:57
Speaker 5: I don't know whether she sees me put the headphones
1:00
Speaker 5: around my ears, but mischief always happens when a podcast
1:05
Speaker 5: is happening.
1:06
Speaker 2: We're talking a good afternoon, mister Gillespie.
1:10
Speaker 4: How's it going good?
1:11
Speaker 1: Thank you? We're talking before we went live.
1:13
Speaker 2: I'd like to just revisit this a little bit, because
1:16
Speaker 2: we're talking about how cats can basically eat a can
1:19
Speaker 2: of cat food a day and line the sun and
1:21
Speaker 2: just be fat and lazy. But then when there's some
1:24
Speaker 2: kind of you know, enemy, real or pretend like, they'll
1:29
Speaker 2: kill that shit in zero point three of a second,
1:32
Speaker 2: like the.
1:33
Speaker 4: Extremely fast reflexestremely fast, much faster than anything that's likely
1:41
Speaker 4: to kill them in the wild, like a snake. So,
1:43
Speaker 4: you know, Tip was saying that all those videos on
1:45
Speaker 4: YouTube of cats punching cobras in the head before the
1:48
Speaker 4: copper even knows what's happened, it's because in real life,
1:52
Speaker 4: you know, in the wild, evolution has equpped these animals
1:55
Speaker 4: to survive contact with things like snakes. And the way
1:59
Speaker 4: it's done it is given wiightening reflexes.
2:02
Speaker 1: It's incredible.
2:03
Speaker 2: And when you see these, I don't know what an
2:04
Speaker 2: anxious cat looks like, but these motherfuckers look so laid back,
2:09
Speaker 2: like when the snake strikes, you know, and you just
2:12
Speaker 2: see the cat hit it four times before the snake's
2:16
Speaker 2: halfway across the range that he wants to be. That
2:20
Speaker 2: is imagine if you had those reflex you nine times
2:23
Speaker 2: world championship.
2:25
Speaker 5: It feels like how I was the snake and my
2:28
Speaker 5: boxing trainer Bryce he was the cat right because I
2:32
Speaker 5: would just be staring. I would just be I'd be
2:34
Speaker 5: so ready, and next minute there'd be a fist through
2:38
Speaker 5: my face and I'd just still be standing there, like.
2:40
Speaker 3: Ah, I didn't see that coming.
2:44
Speaker 1: To what level do you reckon?
2:45
Speaker 2: I mean, you're a fitness coach and you're also an athlete.
2:50
Speaker 2: To what extent do you think you can increase that
2:54
Speaker 2: kind of reaction time or reduce that kind of reaction
2:58
Speaker 2: time and increase your speed and your kind of situational
3:02
Speaker 2: awareness in that Because it seems like it's pretty genetic.
3:07
Speaker 3: I reckon hugely.
3:09
Speaker 5: But it comes down to systems in your brain that
3:12
Speaker 5: are beyond the conscious mind because I remember learning it,
3:15
Speaker 5: I remember observing myself in training, and you react. You
3:21
Speaker 5: begin to react to things, to movements that happened before
3:24
Speaker 5: the movements you're watching. So would I would start to
3:29
Speaker 5: weave a punch and throw back and go oh oh,
3:33
Speaker 5: I weave that I didn't even know it was coming.
3:35
Speaker 5: Because in your peripheral vision, you see someone's shoulder move
3:40
Speaker 5: or something happen with their with their hip or their
3:43
Speaker 5: foot that tells your brain it's coming. And when that
3:47
Speaker 5: first started happening, I was like, oh, how did I know?
3:51
Speaker 2: That's like that's like yeah, pattern recognition, right, and these
3:55
Speaker 2: kind of physical cues where you know, every time he
3:58
Speaker 2: punches me on, then he does this before the thing
4:02
Speaker 2: hits hits my nose, so and you might not even
4:05
Speaker 2: you probably can't even process that in real time.
4:09
Speaker 4: So it's just you'll be glad to know. There's really
4:12
Speaker 4: interesting studies about this, so.
4:15
Speaker 1: Of course you know about them.
4:17
Speaker 4: It uses mirror mirror on your own networks. Yeah, and
4:24
Speaker 4: the study of being done in baseball players because there's
4:28
Speaker 4: a lot of money in baseball, I guess, And what
4:31
Speaker 4: they're trying to figure out is can you make someone
4:33
Speaker 4: a better hitter? So you've got about three hundred milliseconds
4:39
Speaker 4: between when a baseball leaves the pitcher's hand, a fastball
4:43
Speaker 4: leaves their hand and it's across the plate. So in
4:46
Speaker 4: that three hundred milliseconds, the hitter has got to decide
4:49
Speaker 4: what to do, and they can't. They don't have enough
4:54
Speaker 4: time to make a decision that there's just not enough
4:58
Speaker 4: decision time three hundred second, so you can't make a
5:01
Speaker 4: conscious decision.
5:02
Speaker 1: So that's the point. That's points three of.
5:04
Speaker 4: A second right, only three of a second right. So
5:07
Speaker 4: so in order to do it, what they did is
5:10
Speaker 4: they studied if we just take people who have no
5:12
Speaker 4: training ortoever, you know, just college kids in a room
5:16
Speaker 4: and give them a fast ball, how how often will
5:19
Speaker 4: they hit it out of you know, however many tries,
5:23
Speaker 4: and then do the same thing with a professional ballplayer,
5:25
Speaker 4: and you'd expect the professional ballplayer it has much high percentage.
5:29
Speaker 4: They connect with the ball approximately twice as often as
5:33
Speaker 4: the untrained person.
5:34
Speaker 1: Wow.
5:34
Speaker 4: But the interesting thing is they could get the untrained
5:39
Speaker 4: person there very very quickly, like a very very small
5:42
Speaker 4: number of sessions exposed to that high speed ball with
5:46
Speaker 4: the same pitcher, and they were getting very very close
5:51
Speaker 4: to the level that the professional pitcher would get there.
5:54
Speaker 4: And they surmised that what was actually going on was
5:57
Speaker 4: that there's a set of neurons in the brain call
6:00
Speaker 4: but mirror neur owns where which don't do anythinking at all.
6:04
Speaker 4: It's an electric response to the environment. So it's just
6:09
Speaker 4: whatever is happening in the environment, it just mirrors that
6:11
Speaker 4: back into the brain and takes it as an input.
6:15
Speaker 4: And we use that. Interestingly, the reason I know about
6:19
Speaker 4: this is not because I'm a baseball fan, but because
6:22
Speaker 4: we use it in assessing whether or not someone is
6:25
Speaker 4: a psychopath when we first meet them. So a lot
6:30
Speaker 4: of people report, particularly women who are much more attuned
6:33
Speaker 4: to this than men, that meeting a certain person gives
6:39
Speaker 4: them an uneasy feeling, and they put it down to
6:42
Speaker 4: women's intuition just to hunch whatever, whatever, And they're saying
6:48
Speaker 4: that what's actually going on there is that that mirror
6:51
Speaker 4: neuron circuit is firing so that they're seeing things that
6:55
Speaker 4: they don't see, things where if you ask them to
6:57
Speaker 4: sit down and describe what are they seeing, just like
7:00
Speaker 4: at the baseball player, or just like with what Tiff described,
7:03
Speaker 4: describe exactly what told you what was about to happen,
7:06
Speaker 4: they would not be able to tell you.
7:08
Speaker 1: Yes.
7:08
Speaker 4: But the mirror network is picking up these little micro
7:13
Speaker 4: movements or expressions or whatever it is that tells them
7:16
Speaker 4: what is about to happen and makes them react without thinking.
7:22
Speaker 4: And that's what's going on in the studies that they've
7:24
Speaker 4: done on similar things with introductions to psychopaths, is you
7:28
Speaker 4: can tell within the first second or two that the
7:31
Speaker 4: person is giving you the yck. Now, a lot of
7:34
Speaker 4: people dismiss that and say, ah, you know, I just
7:38
Speaker 4: you know, I must be you know, maybe didn't like
7:41
Speaker 4: his color, his tie or whatever, but you know, or
7:44
Speaker 4: just you know, maybe he just said the wrong thing
7:46
Speaker 4: or annoyed me, or I wasn't feeling good, whatever it is.
7:49
Speaker 4: But what the science seems to say is you should
7:52
Speaker 4: trust that, you should go with that if the person
7:56
Speaker 4: is giving you the yick straight away. I tried always
8:02
Speaker 4: be prepared to yeah, go ahead, no, go on, tiff.
8:05
Speaker 5: Because my first reaction was to date them. After a
8:11
Speaker 5: bit of pattern recognition in my own life, I adjusted
8:16
Speaker 5: that reaction.
8:17
Speaker 1: Why do you reckon? Why do you reckon? You did that?
8:20
Speaker 4: Like?
8:20
Speaker 3: What do you in therapy trying to learn harts?
8:23
Speaker 2: But what do you think if you just had to
8:25
Speaker 2: have your best guess? Like why did you pick maniacs?
8:30
Speaker 4: I think there was a few.
8:32
Speaker 1: Right.
8:32
Speaker 5: Here's the theory that I first came up with. I
8:36
Speaker 5: think because of my terror of emotional depth. My something
8:44
Speaker 5: in me recognized that there was no real depth or
8:50
Speaker 5: emotional vulnerability, so it felt safe. So that wasn't real.
8:54
Speaker 5: So the pretend like they're very charismatic and that's an
9:00
Speaker 5: easy story to believe.
9:02
Speaker 3: Does that make sense?
9:03
Speaker 4: Yeah, so maybe some tings like that out of psychobabble
9:08
Speaker 4: and into what's really going on.
9:10
Speaker 3: Okay, here we go.
9:13
Speaker 4: Okay, So psychopaths are extremely confident people because they don't
9:18
Speaker 4: believe that they're ever wrong about anything ever in their lives.
9:21
Speaker 4: So you imagine if you went through your entire life
9:24
Speaker 4: believing you could not be wrong about anything at any time.
9:27
Speaker 4: So that's the way they operate all the time, and
9:31
Speaker 4: that projects as extreme confidence. And as a general rule,
9:36
Speaker 4: people find confidence attractive much more attractive than their physical appearance,
9:42
Speaker 4: like the average looking people, But if they're confident and
9:46
Speaker 4: average looking, they're more attractive.
9:49
Speaker 2: I just think that works both ways, as in both genders.
9:53
Speaker 2: I feel like, perhaps biologically, dudes are more interested in appearance,
9:58
Speaker 2: at least for a period of their lifespan than you know,
10:03
Speaker 2: whether or not a.
10:04
Speaker 1: Woman is confident.
10:05
Speaker 2: I feel like some guys would actually be attracted to
10:08
Speaker 2: the opposite of that.
10:11
Speaker 4: I don't know that you probably there's probably hundreds of
10:13
Speaker 4: psychopovel textbooks about that, I'd imagine, But the biochemistry is
10:20
Speaker 4: it works both ways. Yeah, right, So, and I don't know. Look,
10:25
Speaker 4: there are times when when testosterone is doing the thinking
10:28
Speaker 4: for you, I guess, and as you as you get older.
10:32
Speaker 4: I remember one of the primary functions of testosterone is
10:35
Speaker 4: sex drive, So and your image. Remember that a boy
10:40
Speaker 4: that's just ended puberty has approximately, you know, four hundred
10:47
Speaker 4: times the testosterone they had before they entered puberty, and
10:53
Speaker 4: twice as much as they'll have when they're in their thirties.
10:56
Speaker 4: So you know, that could be doing the thing for
11:00
Speaker 4: you at that stage.
11:01
Speaker 2: It's definitely not doing the thinking for me. I haven't
11:04
Speaker 2: seen any since the late nineties. Okay, every morning I
11:08
Speaker 2: look out the window, I'm like, fuck, not a drop
11:10
Speaker 2: to be seen, hoping.
11:12
Speaker 1: For a delivery any day. Now where you can get.
11:16
Speaker 4: To you probably fine, You'll probably find confidence very appealing
11:19
Speaker 4: then by now.
11:21
Speaker 2: Well, I'm very attracted to you. Let's say that I
11:25
Speaker 2: have you heard of that book? He probably read that book.
11:29
Speaker 2: We may have spoken about once or twice, I'm not sure.
11:31
Speaker 2: Malcolm Gladwell's blink.
11:34
Speaker 4: Blink, yeah, absolutely, yes, what a great book.
11:36
Speaker 2: He kind of speaks to this a little bit, and
11:40
Speaker 2: I'm just going to have to change my earphones because
11:42
Speaker 2: it keeps telling me to change my earphones.
11:44
Speaker 1: Because my batteries can't flat. So you too, carry on,
11:48
Speaker 1: you to carry on.
11:49
Speaker 4: We were just say Harps.
11:51
Speaker 1: Has gone to change his dying headphones.
11:54
Speaker 3: Well you've just said it, so we don't need to.
11:55
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll just talk amongst ourselves. How's the cat going?
11:59
Speaker 4: Is it a lie?
12:00
Speaker 6: Which she shot?
12:01
Speaker 3: Shout out?
12:02
Speaker 4: Now all right here? Oh he's finally back. God knows
12:07
Speaker 4: where he had to get those earphones from. But you
12:10
Speaker 4: have to go into the next county to get them
12:12
Speaker 4: or something.
12:12
Speaker 2: Did I just ran some bloody target. I'll tell you
12:16
Speaker 2: what's a good thing. I'm very swift.
12:20
Speaker 1: Yeah, right there.
12:22
Speaker 2: Tiff thought them for me because she was mad at
12:24
Speaker 2: me because I never wore headphones. Then I thought I'd
12:27
Speaker 2: get fancy and where my bloody sony whatever they are,
12:31
Speaker 2: and they.
12:32
Speaker 1: Just ran out of juice. They just they just ran
12:36
Speaker 1: out of juice.
12:36
Speaker 2: So we were talking about Malcolm Gladwell and that book
12:41
Speaker 2: and that that capacity that we seem to have to
12:43
Speaker 2: be able to know something before we could seemingly logically
12:48
Speaker 2: figure it out.
12:50
Speaker 4: Well, we're very very finely tuned with it when it
12:53
Speaker 4: comes to other humans. So because other humans can potentially
12:58
Speaker 4: kill us, and so we have to learn very very quickly,
13:03
Speaker 4: within seconds, is this someone I can trust or is
13:06
Speaker 4: this someone I can't trust? And so we have a
13:11
Speaker 4: very finely attuned capacity to do that. Our entire growing
13:15
Speaker 4: up lives from the very first second we see our
13:18
Speaker 4: mother's face. The mirror network is firing the entire time
13:22
Speaker 4: to assess what are the signs that another human is dangerous?
13:27
Speaker 6: I've got a question.
13:28
Speaker 5: Then I would like for the non psychologist to evaluate
13:32
Speaker 5: why I'm so dumb at it?
13:33
Speaker 4: Then it's not that you're dumb at it, it's that
13:37
Speaker 4: you don't trust it.
13:41
Speaker 6: Choose it?
13:42
Speaker 5: Then I don't choose anything. Now why did I walk
13:45
Speaker 5: towards it instead of away from it?
13:47
Speaker 4: All because you found the confidence attractive? Wow?
13:54
Speaker 1: How old were you when this was happening? What age
13:57
Speaker 1: range was this?
13:59
Speaker 5: Twenty twenties, twenties and thirties? And then I packed up
14:05
Speaker 5: my bat and ball and came home and didn't.
14:07
Speaker 2: Go And when I'm going to buy two hundred animals
14:09
Speaker 2: over the next thirty years.
14:10
Speaker 1: And that's me done? Yeah, pretty much, that's done. Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
14:18
Speaker 2: We were talking before we came on about you probably
14:26
Speaker 2: don't want to talk about this but I'm interested in handball.
14:29
Speaker 2: So you're very heavily invested in handball. Your did you
14:33
Speaker 2: say two or three of your girls played at recently
14:37
Speaker 2: high level and you just came back or they just
14:39
Speaker 2: came back and you're from New Zealand give us a
14:43
Speaker 2: little bit of an insight into this. I know this
14:45
Speaker 2: is very random everyone, but I'm interested in it. I'm
14:48
Speaker 2: interested in it.
14:50
Speaker 1: Is it European handball?
14:52
Speaker 4: Is that the European handball? Yeah, it's the stuff that's
14:54
Speaker 4: played at the Olympics. So it's like water polo, but
14:56
Speaker 4: without the water, you know, so very very high speed
15:02
Speaker 4: indoor sport or another way to describe as like futsal,
15:04
Speaker 4: but play with your hands not your feet, and it's
15:07
Speaker 4: full contact, so you know, you can be full body, hard,
15:11
Speaker 4: hit contacted. And I think we talked about this last
15:13
Speaker 4: time when I was saying about that. Why I liked
15:17
Speaker 4: what Tiff posted it about women boxing. It's the same
15:20
Speaker 4: in handball because they're playing a full contact sport on
15:24
Speaker 4: an indoor court at very high speed. And I love
15:28
Speaker 4: the effect that has on girls assert of and confidence.
15:34
Speaker 4: They have to be pretty confident to run at the
15:36
Speaker 4: line where they know someone's going to hit them, and
15:40
Speaker 4: it's it's a very highly skill sport. It's easy to
15:44
Speaker 4: get to a sort of conversational level with you know,
15:47
Speaker 4: you pick a ball, you can shoot. People like it
15:49
Speaker 4: because unlike netball, for example, where only a couple of
15:52
Speaker 4: people ever get to score, anyone can score from anywhere.
15:56
Speaker 4: And it's all about, you know, tactics to move the
15:59
Speaker 4: defenses quickly as possible, move the ball, get it in
16:02
Speaker 4: the goal. Very very physical to sixty minute game and
16:07
Speaker 4: you're running from end to end on a forty meter
16:10
Speaker 4: court and in an average game there's going to be
16:14
Speaker 4: fifty to sixty goals scored, so you're running end to
16:17
Speaker 4: end a lot. So yeah, I think it's a terrific sport. Obviously.
16:24
Speaker 4: I'm the manager of the Australian women's team and also
16:29
Speaker 4: the president of the biggest club in Australia, Brisbane Handball,
16:33
Speaker 4: and we just took two teams over to New Zealand
16:36
Speaker 4: to the club championships there they're once a year thing,
16:39
Speaker 4: and our women's team won and our men's team came second.
16:44
Speaker 4: And the thing I really loved about our women's team
16:46
Speaker 4: winning is that five of the players and there are
16:48
Speaker 4: seven one court at any time, but there's usally about
16:50
Speaker 4: fourteen in a team because of all the running, you
16:52
Speaker 4: get exhausted, had to be all the time, so it's
16:55
Speaker 4: got rolling subs. And what I loved is that five
16:59
Speaker 4: of the players on that or from our under fifteen
17:01
Speaker 4: girls team, So damn yeah. Getting them to go out
17:05
Speaker 4: there and play against women and beat them I think
17:10
Speaker 4: was an incredible experience for them.
17:12
Speaker 2: Do they I'm just interested as an xio scientist. Do
17:16
Speaker 2: they have you know, how structured is their training? Do
17:20
Speaker 2: they have strength and conditioning kind of coaches, Do they
17:22
Speaker 2: have rehab people, do they have physios?
17:25
Speaker 1: I guess they have all of that at that level
17:28
Speaker 1: they have.
17:29
Speaker 4: So a week of training in Australia at our club
17:33
Speaker 4: is to to our on court sessions which are pretty
17:39
Speaker 4: full on, full of lots of heavy duty cardio type stuff,
17:43
Speaker 4: plus of course skills and drills for ballwork, and then
17:47
Speaker 4: they have one session which is an hour in the
17:49
Speaker 4: gym and then an hour on court with specialist small
17:51
Speaker 4: groups strength and conditioning coaches. So and they're easily training
17:58
Speaker 4: more than any other is because here it's a micro sport.
18:02
Speaker 4: No one is no one does it here in Europe
18:05
Speaker 4: it's a massive sport. Thirty million people play it. It's
18:08
Speaker 4: second only to soccer in terms of its audience, and
18:13
Speaker 4: even the level that we're out here would be mostly
18:17
Speaker 4: pathetic against European teams that that are training five or
18:21
Speaker 4: six times a week.
18:23
Speaker 2: Would you be I mean, are you? I don't know,
18:26
Speaker 2: I don't mean you personally, But is is the sport
18:29
Speaker 2: interested in growing and expanding or just having fun and
18:32
Speaker 2: just doing what you do?
18:34
Speaker 4: We know we want it massively to expand. I look,
18:37
Speaker 4: I think it's a terrific sport. My girls have played
18:39
Speaker 4: netball or lives softball, whatever you name it. They've they've
18:44
Speaker 4: pried everything. They got to a pretty high level with netball,
18:48
Speaker 4: but they're continuing on with this because I think the
18:51
Speaker 4: value particularly for girls. It's terrific sport for boys as well,
18:54
Speaker 4: but it's as with most sports with boys, it's all
18:58
Speaker 4: about how ard you can hit.
19:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it's it, you know.
19:05
Speaker 4: I find the women's version of the sport more pleasant
19:08
Speaker 4: to watch because the skills are more important rather than
19:12
Speaker 4: you know, you know, it's the same size call for
19:15
Speaker 4: boys and girls, and boys can just leap in the
19:17
Speaker 4: air nine meters out from the goal and shoot over
19:20
Speaker 4: the defense. And you know, that's that's power sport as
19:24
Speaker 4: opposed to women have to find a way through without
19:27
Speaker 4: being able to do that. So and these balls are
19:30
Speaker 4: being thrown, you know, shot at one hundred and forty
19:32
Speaker 4: kilometers an hour. You know, to volunteer to be a
19:36
Speaker 4: goalie in that situation, it is a work of courage
19:38
Speaker 4: in itself.
19:40
Speaker 1: What's the size of the ball compared.
19:42
Speaker 4: To the size So the men play with a size
19:44
Speaker 4: three soccer ball and the women play with size two
19:47
Speaker 4: soccer ball.
19:49
Speaker 1: That's what is that like?
19:52
Speaker 4: Like?
19:53
Speaker 1: Is a ladies one like the size of a softball?
19:56
Speaker 1: Like a softball?
19:57
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no, no, it's bigger than that. So the
20:00
Speaker 4: men's size are probably about a half size imagine about
20:03
Speaker 4: half the size of a soccer ball, so imagine a
20:05
Speaker 4: small soccer ball, and the women's one is a little
20:08
Speaker 4: bit smaller on that, but not massively smaller.
20:11
Speaker 1: What do you got that goofy smile on your face?
20:13
Speaker 4: For?
20:13
Speaker 1: What are you looking at?
20:14
Speaker 6: I'm trying to look up a video so I can
20:17
Speaker 6: see it.
20:17
Speaker 4: Can you chend you some videos?
20:20
Speaker 6: I don't know what size a size three soccer ball?
20:24
Speaker 4: Well, all balls you would know if because you're an
20:26
Speaker 4: expert in ball sports, all all ball sports work on
20:30
Speaker 4: a standard sizing system.
20:32
Speaker 1: So yes, yep, yeah, yeah, she's that. She's wow.
20:39
Speaker 4: And so.
20:41
Speaker 2: What's your responsibility as kind of the president for Australia
20:46
Speaker 2: so to speak.
20:47
Speaker 4: A manager? So yeah, they do the logistics of getting
20:51
Speaker 4: them all together and all that sort of thing, basically
20:53
Speaker 4: the same thing I do at the club, which is
20:55
Speaker 4: organizing logistics making it all happen.
21:00
Speaker 2: And I guess you'd need a sponsorship. Be hard to
21:03
Speaker 2: get low profile sport. But if you're interested, if you're interested, anyone,
21:09
Speaker 2: hit David up. He'll at the very least have a
21:11
Speaker 2: chat to you and probably tell you about the frame
21:15
Speaker 2: rate that birds see at per minute or second, which
21:19
Speaker 2: she told me before the show.
21:21
Speaker 4: Twelve hundred, twelve hundred per second, humans see at sixty
21:26
Speaker 4: How is.
21:27
Speaker 1: That even possible? Twelve hundred per second?
21:31
Speaker 4: Yeah, So if you imagine flying at sixty kilometers an
21:34
Speaker 4: hour between the branches of trees and leaves and so on,
21:38
Speaker 4: and not hitting any of it, you have to see
21:40
Speaker 4: things nice and slow. You have to say so to them.
21:45
Speaker 4: The experience is seeing the world in twenty times slow motion.
21:48
Speaker 4: So for them, it's easy. Hey, I'm just you know,
21:51
Speaker 4: it's like taking a walk flying at sixty kilo meters
21:56
Speaker 4: an hour through the foliage. And that's why birds, when
21:59
Speaker 4: they're sitting on the road in front of you and
22:00
Speaker 4: you're approaching one hundred kilometers an hour, it takes forever
22:02
Speaker 4: to get off the road because to them, they've got
22:05
Speaker 4: forever they can see you. You're a long way away.
22:08
Speaker 2: Well they see it twenty times quo wicked than Yeah,
22:13
Speaker 2: but perceptually slower, yes, yes, yes, it's like.
22:18
Speaker 1: Moving in slow mode for them.
22:20
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, and they've got plenty of reaction time. And
22:24
Speaker 4: you know, lots of species have these, Like dogs, I
22:26
Speaker 4: think have a sense of smell that's approximately a thousand
22:29
Speaker 4: times more sensitive than humans. And it's just a matter
22:34
Speaker 4: of where evolution has redirected the brain's resources. What do
22:39
Speaker 4: you think human superpower is? Because we have.
22:42
Speaker 1: One, well, mine's dancing.
22:46
Speaker 4: I can't obviously, yes, the rest of humanity.
22:50
Speaker 1: What is our superpower? Critical?
22:52
Speaker 4: Is one thing?
22:53
Speaker 1: Problem solving? Critical thing?
22:55
Speaker 6: No?
22:55
Speaker 4: No, no, it's no, no, it's a sense thing. What
23:00
Speaker 4: is the thing that humans do better than any other
23:04
Speaker 4: species on the planet?
23:05
Speaker 1: Wow? Uh, drink beer to guess.
23:11
Speaker 5: Something around like empathy with other other people's.
23:14
Speaker 4: Going to she'sail. She's nailed it.
23:18
Speaker 2: It's we've had this conversation TIF said dogs have empathy.
23:22
Speaker 4: We've had this, well, look, I can't help her not
23:26
Speaker 4: understanding that her dog's are psychopaths. But in humans, I
23:31
Speaker 4: love them.
23:31
Speaker 3: That's why I love my dog.
23:36
Speaker 4: Our superpower is we've redirected and they think from our
23:40
Speaker 4: sense of smell, so we know some pass in our
23:43
Speaker 4: dim dark evolutionary history. We redirected from from we had
23:50
Speaker 4: a better sense of smell, and we've redirected some of
23:53
Speaker 4: the neuronal wiring there to to this business that we
23:58
Speaker 4: were talking about before, which is reading other humans. Our
24:01
Speaker 4: ability to sense the emotions and intentions of other humans
24:06
Speaker 4: is greater than any other animal. No other animal has
24:11
Speaker 4: what we describe as empathy. But empathy is in fact
24:14
Speaker 4: tuning into the brain of another animal. It's being able
24:19
Speaker 4: to predict what that animal is thinking in real time
24:25
Speaker 4: is our superpower. No other animal can do that. So
24:29
Speaker 4: that's how we've used that sensory network that birds have
24:33
Speaker 4: got in their eyes, cats have got in their reflexes,
24:36
Speaker 4: we've got in our ability to judge the intentions of others.
24:41
Speaker 1: I reckon there's a lot of people who are not
24:43
Speaker 1: very good at that. I think a lot of we're all.
24:46
Speaker 4: Very good at it, but we have to learn to
24:47
Speaker 4: trust it.
24:48
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and I think a lot of people don't
24:50
Speaker 2: do it though, like a lot of people really don't
24:52
Speaker 2: think about how anyone else thinks.
24:56
Speaker 4: There's an interesting set of studies on there's a suggestion
25:03
Speaker 4: that one way to tell that someone is a psychopath
25:06
Speaker 4: is that they are either tone deaf, color blind, or
25:11
Speaker 4: I don't mind bitter drinks, And all of those things
25:16
Speaker 4: have in common and InIB to finally differentiate. So, yeah,
25:23
Speaker 4: tone deaf means you can't properly differentiate the tones in music,
25:28
Speaker 4: colorblind means you can't properly differentiate the colors, and preferring
25:34
Speaker 4: bitter things means you can't properly differentiate whether something is
25:37
Speaker 4: bitter or sweet. So those are all differentiation things that
25:42
Speaker 4: require a lot of neuronal processing power. And there's a
25:46
Speaker 4: theory that says because psychopaths have no empathy and they
25:51
Speaker 4: don't have any empathy, that part of that network that
25:56
Speaker 4: would have been secondered to producing empathy also doesn't work
26:00
Speaker 4: for the other things in their lives. So we've secondered
26:04
Speaker 4: our sense of taste, our sense of smell, our eyesight,
26:07
Speaker 4: et cetera into the empathy network, and the suggestion is
26:12
Speaker 4: that it's impaired all throughout. So the same network is
26:16
Speaker 4: doing all of those things. And that's why you'll see
26:19
Speaker 4: studies if you go looking for it, where they'll say
26:22
Speaker 4: the way to tell a psychopath is they like black coffee,
26:25
Speaker 4: or they drink straight spirits or things like that.
26:30
Speaker 2: Wow, that's I think you'd want to dive deep into
26:33
Speaker 2: that before you start thinking everyone who drinks black coffee
26:36
Speaker 2: that you're a sociopath or a psychopath. It's like there's
26:39
Speaker 2: all these color blind people now running around the house.
26:43
Speaker 4: I wouldn't recognize. Recommend this is a diagnostic tool that
26:48
Speaker 4: you will find studies, and there is buy a chemistry
26:51
Speaker 4: to back it up. But it's so let's fage it
26:56
Speaker 4: as one of the things to pay attention to.
27:00
Speaker 1: My God, TIF, do you like bitter drinks?
27:02
Speaker 3: I just can't.
27:03
Speaker 6: I just can't.
27:04
Speaker 5: But how does David know all of this stuff about
27:08
Speaker 5: everything in the world.
27:11
Speaker 2: That's why he's our he's our resident savant. He's a
27:14
Speaker 2: rain man. He's rain man in a bad suit. I mean,
27:18
Speaker 2: how can I say that's why we.
27:20
Speaker 1: Get him on?
27:23
Speaker 2: Well, I mean that like there, yeah, I don't know,
27:26
Speaker 2: I opened the door, but like understanding how other people think.
27:29
Speaker 2: In psychology it's called theory of mind. And you and
27:32
Speaker 2: I have both spoken about this, but yeah, there are
27:34
Speaker 2: a lot of people who are fucking terrible at understanding
27:37
Speaker 2: how other people think.
27:39
Speaker 1: You know, and it's not it's not that so it's
27:42
Speaker 1: not listen to you, Yes it is, Yes, it is.
27:45
Speaker 4: That's that it is. That's a conscious level decision about
27:49
Speaker 4: So if we put it into a more everyday term, right,
27:54
Speaker 4: if you're walking out into the street and the car
27:56
Speaker 4: is about to hit you, there's a there's an automated
27:59
Speaker 4: system that recognizes the signs that a car's are about
28:02
Speaker 4: to hit you and get your adrenaline pumping quickly gets
28:05
Speaker 4: you out of the way, quickly, before you've even had
28:07
Speaker 4: time to have a think about, oh, there's a car
28:09
Speaker 4: about to hit me. What you're talking about is that
28:12
Speaker 4: second system, the bit that's a second or two down
28:16
Speaker 4: the line, that is consciously trying to make decisions on
28:20
Speaker 4: manual I'm talking about the fully automated system that happens
28:24
Speaker 4: within the first second. And I know you talked about
28:28
Speaker 4: Malcolm's book there blink, he talks about the first ten seconds.
28:32
Speaker 4: I think that's way too long. The first ten seconds.
28:34
Speaker 4: You know, we've thought an essay about it. It's not
28:37
Speaker 4: the first one second. It's one it's under a second.
28:40
Speaker 4: It's the base four players having to make decisions about
28:43
Speaker 4: what to do with their bodies before the ball even
28:47
Speaker 4: leaves the pitcher's hand. Yeah, do you remember that Tiff
28:51
Speaker 4: said she knew what to do before the punch even began.
28:57
Speaker 2: It's interesting because there's another idea or concept or construct
29:01
Speaker 2: or whatever you want to call it in psychology called
29:03
Speaker 2: the false consensus effect, and that is quite a well
29:06
Speaker 2: known thing that talks about the fact that most people
29:10
Speaker 2: think that other people think like them. Like they assume that,
29:15
Speaker 2: you know, so they assume that their intention will be
29:18
Speaker 2: the other person's experience, you know what I mean. It's like, well,
29:21
Speaker 2: I'm being very clear? Am I not being clear with
29:24
Speaker 2: my words? I'm saying, you know, and so therefore they
29:26
Speaker 2: should understand me.
29:28
Speaker 4: But there's a great model of this called tit for tat,
29:32
Speaker 4: and I think we've talked about it before, which is
29:35
Speaker 4: most humans operate most empathetic humans operate on the assumption
29:40
Speaker 4: that everybody else has good intentions. So and we operate
29:46
Speaker 4: on a model called tit for tat, which is we
29:49
Speaker 4: will default to doing the right thing and being trustworthy
29:53
Speaker 4: and being honest with another person. If we meet a
29:55
Speaker 4: stranger and the stranger says, can I borrow a dollar,
29:58
Speaker 4: will lend them a dollar and will assume that they
30:02
Speaker 4: will give it back to us, you know, when they
30:05
Speaker 4: no longer need it, and so we operate on that
30:08
Speaker 4: as a default. So most of humanity, the part of
30:12
Speaker 4: humanity that are not psychopaths, most of humanity work on
30:16
Speaker 4: that basis, which is, we start from honest, we start
30:19
Speaker 4: from trust, and the only time we change from that
30:24
Speaker 4: is if the person proves themselves to be untrustworthy. So
30:27
Speaker 4: we start trusting them, and then they don't give the
30:31
Speaker 4: dollar back and we say, oh, okay, so you can't
30:34
Speaker 4: be trusted, and from then on we'll be dishonest with
30:38
Speaker 4: them too, So we'll believe that if they're dishonest, we
30:42
Speaker 4: have carte blanche to be dishonest as well. Until they
30:45
Speaker 4: are honest again, we immediately switch back. So if they
30:50
Speaker 4: suddenly prove themselves to be honest, we'll switch back to
30:53
Speaker 4: being honest. And humans operate on this tit for tat model,
30:56
Speaker 4: and it's been proven study after study after study after study,
30:59
Speaker 4: being replicated ad nauseum. All of us work on tit
31:03
Speaker 4: for tat. Psychopaths don't. Psychopaths have the reverse model, so
31:09
Speaker 4: they default to the proposition that you are untrustworthy, that
31:14
Speaker 4: you will lie to them, and they work on that
31:17
Speaker 4: presumption in their dealings with you right from the get go.
31:21
Speaker 1: Yeah.
31:22
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there's a space in the middle where you.
31:26
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily trust everyone up front.
31:28
Speaker 1: But that is because I've been burned a hundred times.
31:31
Speaker 2: So neither do I automatically think they're going to steal
31:34
Speaker 2: a lye or cheap I don't think that either. I
31:36
Speaker 2: just think they have the potential for that. So for me,
31:40
Speaker 2: I tend to just pay attention for a while, you know,
31:44
Speaker 2: not mistrust them, not trust them somewhere in the middle.
31:47
Speaker 4: The interesting thing is there's been some quite interesting models
31:50
Speaker 4: done of things that we do that give us guidance
31:56
Speaker 4: about whether to trust someone or not, because we don't
31:59
Speaker 4: automically trust unless the person we're dealing with is like us.
32:05
Speaker 4: So the more like us they are, the more likely
32:09
Speaker 4: we are to automatically trust them. And if there are
32:12
Speaker 4: any differences, so now they're not the same race as us,
32:15
Speaker 4: they speak a different language from us, they're a different
32:18
Speaker 4: religion from us. If there are any obvious differences between
32:22
Speaker 4: them and us, then our likelihood of trust decreases and
32:27
Speaker 4: we start to behave like you described great, which is
32:30
Speaker 4: I'm just going to give this a few cycles first
32:32
Speaker 4: before I completely trust this person. But the more like
32:36
Speaker 4: you they are, the more likely you are to trust
32:39
Speaker 4: them straight out of the gate.
32:40
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes total sense.
32:42
Speaker 2: I used to be overwhelmingly to my own detriment trust
32:47
Speaker 2: trusting with everybody and then running businesses, owning businesses, employing
32:52
Speaker 2: people and all that stuff that comes with that. Not
32:54
Speaker 2: with everybody, very small percentage of people, but people that
32:58
Speaker 2: I really loved, really loved, really trusted, really valued, just
33:03
Speaker 2: stole money from me, like repeatedly and took every opportunity,
33:08
Speaker 2: not not.
33:08
Speaker 1: Most, of course, but some and you.
33:12
Speaker 2: Know, like people that were very high on my list
33:15
Speaker 2: of people that I cared about. And it didn't happen
33:17
Speaker 2: one time, it happened, you know, way more than a
33:21
Speaker 2: dozen times. And yeah, so you get to the point
33:23
Speaker 2: you think, well, actually trusting people automatically, which I have
33:27
Speaker 2: always done, has not served me at all. It's actually
33:31
Speaker 2: caused significant problems, so, you know, rather than and also
33:36
Speaker 2: I don't hate them. I don't want any ill to
33:38
Speaker 2: come to them.
33:38
Speaker 1: I don't, you know. And but for me.
33:41
Speaker 2: It just takes a while where I go, oh, let's
33:43
Speaker 2: just see, let me just let me just pay attention
33:46
Speaker 2: for a while, and I'll see what happens and whether
33:49
Speaker 2: or not I trust you.
33:50
Speaker 4: But although the other thing to remember is the first
33:52
Speaker 4: thing we talked about, which is there is that first second.
33:56
Speaker 4: Then if your gut, if you want to describe it
33:59
Speaker 4: any other way, if you get that feeling in the
34:02
Speaker 4: first second that and you might you won't be able
34:04
Speaker 4: to pin it. It'll just be there's something off with
34:08
Speaker 4: this person.
34:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, trust that.
34:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, I think that's a kind of almost an
34:14
Speaker 2: interpersonal superpower.
34:16
Speaker 1: Hey, I wanted to ask you something before we go.
34:18
Speaker 1: I read that.
34:21
Speaker 2: Your book Toxic at Work has just been translated into
34:25
Speaker 2: Japanese and it's just hitting the shells in Japan.
34:28
Speaker 1: Firstly, congratulations. Secondly, I wanted.
34:31
Speaker 2: To ask you, how do you know that what they've
34:34
Speaker 2: translated is what.
34:37
Speaker 1: You fucking do? You know what I mean?
34:39
Speaker 4: It's not like people, you know, it's I trust people
34:43
Speaker 4: and I have an AI to check things. So I
34:47
Speaker 4: actually uploaded it to an AI.
34:49
Speaker 1: You just contradicted yourself with that second sence.
34:52
Speaker 2: I trust people also I double check on aigo.
34:56
Speaker 1: I don't trust people. That's funny.
34:59
Speaker 2: How did tell me a little bit about the process
35:01
Speaker 2: of that, Like, how does that work?
35:04
Speaker 4: It sounds a lot more impressive than it is from
35:08
Speaker 4: my perspective, in the sense that I don't do much.
35:12
Speaker 4: My publisher in Australia gets out there at book fairs
35:16
Speaker 4: and so on and sells translations of various books. A
35:19
Speaker 4: lot of my books are like there's Korean versions, Portuguese version,
35:23
Speaker 4: Spanish versions, you name it. This is the first Japanese
35:26
Speaker 4: one I think I've had. But it doesn't have a
35:28
Speaker 4: lot to do with me other than saying, yeah, I'm
35:30
Speaker 4: okay with that publisher publishing that book in that language.
35:34
Speaker 2: Have you ever had something where they've had to bring
35:37
Speaker 2: this to you and say, this idea or this story
35:40
Speaker 2: or this concept culturally is not a great fit. Can
35:44
Speaker 2: you give us another example or another story, or can
35:47
Speaker 2: you say this a different way.
35:49
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, absolutely. I can't off the top of my
35:52
Speaker 4: head think of examples, but it has come up. It
35:54
Speaker 4: came up a couple of times, I think in some
35:56
Speaker 4: translations around teen brain maybe brain reset. It was, yeah,
36:03
Speaker 4: particularly the stuff about anarex here. Sometimes they're a little
36:08
Speaker 4: cautious about that in some cultures. And yeah, they usually
36:13
Speaker 4: don't ask to do a different version. They usually just
36:16
Speaker 4: ask is it okay if we leave this out right?
36:19
Speaker 1: Usually say sure, yeah, yeah, well perfect. Well make congratulations
36:25
Speaker 1: on the handball, congratulations on the new book. I'll send you.
36:30
Speaker 4: I'll send you a video of some handball TIFs so
36:32
Speaker 4: you can see what I'm talking about.
36:34
Speaker 6: I'm intrigued. I'm going to go look it up.
36:37
Speaker 1: You could. Maybe you'd probably be.
36:38
Speaker 3: Good people in the face.
36:40
Speaker 4: I might, I might, she'd be she'd be very very
36:44
Speaker 4: good at it. I suspect rules about it. If you
36:48
Speaker 4: can't just go up and start punching people, it's not
36:50
Speaker 4: like boxing.
36:52
Speaker 2: You can then you do the hands in the air emogens.
36:54
Speaker 2: I did not know. I did not know. She would
36:59
Speaker 2: be quite good because she's pretty fast and powerful, and she's.
37:03
Speaker 1: A bit of a brute. She's a bit of a weapon.
37:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, when you next come up to Brisbane, Tiff,
37:09
Speaker 4: you need to give me a yell. I'll get you
37:11
Speaker 4: onto a handwalk, Cord.
37:13
Speaker 3: Right eight October. I'm there.
37:14
Speaker 1: Yeah done, Wow, that's next month. Yeah yeah, are you
37:18
Speaker 1: going to actually do it?
37:19
Speaker 4: We'll get video of it. You'll see proof, Craig.
37:22
Speaker 2: That'd be great, say only if only that bloke would
37:25
Speaker 2: drop off the testosterone. I'd be on like a shot,
37:29
Speaker 2: you know how I keep looking out the window in
37:31
Speaker 2: the morning.
37:32
Speaker 1: All right, David, we'll say goodbye fair but as always,
37:36
Speaker 1: thank you sir.
37:37
Speaker 4: Yeah, pleasure to see you later. Thanks TIV, thank you,