Latest / The Bechdel Cast / Weird Science with Bridget Todd

Transcript

Weird Science with Bridget Todd · The Bechdel Cast

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: in them.
• 0:05
  Speaker 2: Are all their discussions.
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Just boyfriends and husbands or do they have individualism? The
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: patriarchy's effing vast. Start changing it with the Bechdelcast.
• 0:16
  Speaker 3: Attention, Bechtelcast listeners, we are going on tour.
• 0:21
  Speaker 2: Wow, okay, Oprah. And you get a tour date, and
• 0:27
  Speaker 2: you get a tour date, but only if you live
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: in the Northeast. This is the kickoff leg of our
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: 10-year Whoops We Didn't Dismantle the Patriarchy anniversary tour, and
• 0:38
  Speaker 2: we are hitting up cities in the Northeast that we
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: haven't toured to in many years. We're very excited.
• 0:43
  Speaker 3: Caitlin, where the hell are we going? We are going
• 0:45
  Speaker 3: to New York City at the Bell House on October 12th.
• 0:50
  Speaker 3: Baltimore at Creative Alliance on October 15th. Philadelphia at Philomoka
• 0:55
  Speaker 3: on October 17th. State College at Manny's on October 18th.
• 1:00
  Speaker 3: Pittsburgh at Bottle Rocket on October 19th. And finally, Boston
• 1:05
  Speaker 3: at the Brattle Theater on October 21st.
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: First, we are so excited to be celebrating the show.
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: It's going to be a big, silly variety show. There
• 1:14
  Speaker 2: will be videos. There will be a recap of the
• 1:18
  Speaker 2: Bechdel cast. There's going to be an ode to the
• 1:22
  Speaker 2: dead wife. We're going to get into all of that
• 1:24
  Speaker 2: incredible post-MeToo cinema from men who didn't understand what that
• 1:29
  Speaker 2: was supposed to be about. There's just been so much
• 1:32
  Speaker 2: going on. And we'll also, as always, have exclusive merch.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: And we're our own merch people. Come hang. Come take pictures.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: And we will also have free merch for our matrons.
• 1:44
  Speaker 3: That's right. You get a button.
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: So now's a great time to join the matron.
• 1:48
  Speaker 3: Another reason to join the matron is that matrons get
• 1:51
  Speaker 3: access to a promo code for a discount on tickets.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: So if you're not already a matron, sign up today.
• 1:57
  Speaker 3: Get that discount. Now, where can we buy tickets, you're wondering? Well,
• 2:01
  Speaker 3: we'll tell you.
• 2:02
  Speaker 4: Well.
• 2:02
  Speaker 3: It's at linktree.com. Pretty simple.
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: Pretty simple. Not that hard to remember. And also, final thing,
• 2:10
  Speaker 2: if you have pre-ordered my book, The Tower, you can
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: also get free merch at our merch table. So really,
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: just come, hang, and if you are coming to these
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: shows specifically, dress up. It's Halloween time. No wrong answers,
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: but a crowd full of Doc Ocks would certainly be interesting. Yeah.
• 2:26
  Speaker 3: Dress as your favorite movie character. We will be doing
• 2:29
  Speaker 3: the same.
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 2:31
  Speaker 3: And if you don't live in or near any of
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: these cities that we listed, fear not. Over the course
• 2:37
  Speaker 3: of the next year, we will be visiting other regions
• 2:40
  Speaker 3: of the US and Canada to do the show.
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: What?
• 2:45
  Speaker 3: So fear not. We will be coming to a city
• 2:49
  Speaker 3: near you soon. Save the date.
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: Save the date. We're getting married to our own body.
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: This is the longest relationship of my life, I will say.
• 2:57
  Speaker 2: And it's not even close. It's not even close. We
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: are common law married. We are common law married. And
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: we are common law married to our listeners. Is that
• 3:05
  Speaker 2: excessively parasocial? Don't think about it. Come to the show.
• 3:09
  Speaker 3: And be excessively parasocial at us.
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: And we will see you in October.
• 3:14
  Speaker 3: See you there.
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: The Bechdel cast.
• 3:17
  Speaker 2: All right, Caitlin, our parents are out of town and
• 3:20
  Speaker 2: we have to create the perfect podcast.
• 3:23
  Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. Let's give it the sexiness of all
• 3:28
  Speaker 3: these playboy models and the intelligence of Albert Einstein.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: And let's give our podcast huge honkers. And then this
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: is actually, you know, for everything we're going to be
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: talking about, about the movie Weird Science today, it was
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: kind of a nice walk down memory lane because our
• 3:49
  Speaker 2: podcast also emerged out of the fog in one of
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: our bedrooms about 10 years ago and then said, So
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: what do you little podcasters want to do first? And
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: we said cover Kill Bill very poorly. And that's what
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: we did. And not what we did. Cover Kill Bill
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: with actually no understanding of what we were saying.
• 4:09
  Speaker 4: True.
• 4:10
  Speaker 3: And that's why that episode would eventually be deleted and redone.
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: Lost media. Welcome to the Bechtelcast. My name is Jamie Loftus.
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: My name is Caitlin Durante. This is our show where
• 4:22
  Speaker 3: we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens using the
• 4:26
  Speaker 3: Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point, which of
• 4:29
  Speaker 3: course is a media metric created by our dear friend
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: of the show, Alison Bechdel, first appearing in her comic
• 4:38
  Speaker 3: collection Dykes to Watch Out For in the mid 80s,
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: has since been sort of repurposed as a more mainstream
• 4:45
  Speaker 3: media test. There are many versions of it. The one
• 4:48
  Speaker 3: that we use is, do two characters of a marginalized
• 4:52
  Speaker 3: gender have names? Do they have a conversation with each other?
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: And is that conversation about something other than a man?
• 5:01
  Speaker 3: And we particularly like it when it's meaningful dialogue and
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: not just like throw away nothing dialogue that you could
• 5:08
  Speaker 3: delete out of the movie and nothing would change.
• 5:11
  Speaker 2: And crucially, and crucially, I just want to say, in
• 5:16
  Speaker 2: light of what we'll be talking about today, just because,
• 5:19
  Speaker 2: I mean, we've been saying this, but just because a
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: movie maybe technically passes the Bechdel test doesn't mean that
• 5:27
  Speaker 2: it's good for the culture. I just want to get
• 5:32
  Speaker 2: ahead of it.
• 5:33
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: I just want to get ahead of it because when
• 5:34
  Speaker 2: this movie actually does pass the Bechdel test, I was
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: kicking and screaming and I was like, well, now my
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: life is hard. This sucks. This flawed metric.
• 5:42
  Speaker 3: Two women talk about another woman.
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: Yes. And in a conversation I'm actually very interested to
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: talk about because I feel like like happens maybe a
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: few a handful of times in these movies. I'm like, oh,
• 5:52
  Speaker 2: that's the start of something maybe more interesting. And of course,
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: it goes nowhere.
• 5:57
  Speaker 3: Yes, indeed.
• 5:58
  Speaker 2: We are covering, again, in the running trend of our
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: 10-year anniversary, we're covering a movie you would think we
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: would have covered years ago, but we have, in fact,
• 6:07
  Speaker 2: been avoiding for many years. But we have been outpaced
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: because we have an incredible, wonderful returning guest. And so
• 6:16
  Speaker 2: we are recovering. I said we were recovering. We are
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: recovering from Weird Science 1985.
• 6:24
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 6:25
  Speaker 2: And let's get our wonderful guest in here. I'm so
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: excited to see her.
• 6:28
  Speaker 3: She is the host of iHeart's podcast, There Are No
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: Girls on the Internet. She's the author of the audiobook,
• 6:36
  Speaker 3: Love at First Prompt, AI and the Future of Intimacy.
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: And you know her from our episodes on Eve's Bayou,
• 6:44
  Speaker 3: Reality Bites, BAPS. It's Bridget Todd.
• 6:48
  Speaker 2: Welcome back.
• 6:49
  Speaker 4: Welcome back.
• 6:50
  Speaker 5: I'm so thrilled to be here. Thank you so much
• 6:52
  Speaker 5: for having me. I'm so excited to talk about Weird Science.
• 6:55
  Speaker 3: Oh, goodness gracious. Us too.
• 7:00
  Speaker 2: I'm so curious because I know, first of all, our listeners,
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: I feel like there's a ton of crossover in our listenership,
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I'm sure. But if you are a Bechtelcast listener that
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: is not listening to There Are No Girls on the Internet,
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: not following your content, like it's just you are doing
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: the good work week in and week out. We're so
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: stoked to have you back. Thank you so much. Of course.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: And we'd love to hear more about your book. Tell
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: us about it.
• 7:26
  Speaker 5: Yes, the book is called Love at First Prompt. It
• 7:29
  Speaker 5: is an audio book. You can get it at loveatfirstprompt.com.
• 7:32
  Speaker 5: It really explores why we are so fascinated with the
• 7:37
  Speaker 5: concept of humans and technology like AI having intimate connections.
• 7:44
  Speaker 5: So whether that's romantic connections, sexual connections, platonic connections, you know,
• 7:50
  Speaker 5: I'm interested in exploring that from a perspective where I'm
• 7:54
  Speaker 5: not actually trying to cast judgment on individuals who say
• 7:58
  Speaker 5: that they feel like they have some sort of intimate
• 8:00
  Speaker 5: connection with AI, but instead I ask, what is driving this?
• 8:04
  Speaker 5: Why are we so fascinated with this? And what does
• 8:06
  Speaker 5: this mean for all the tech companies that are essentially
• 8:08
  Speaker 5: trying to commodify intimacy, connection, sexuality, romance, friendship, and all
• 8:14
  Speaker 5: of that?
• 8:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, I'm so, so, so excited to listen to it.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: And also, when I read about it, when I read
• 8:21
  Speaker 2: your announcement, I was like, Bridget truly is just like
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: doing the work that needs to be done, but must
• 8:29
  Speaker 2: be really frustrating to do sometimes.
• 8:32
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good way to put it.
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  Speaker 5: But it is interesting because in researching the book, I
• 8:37
  Speaker 5: kind of had to go back and realize that that
• 8:40
  Speaker 5: this was a topic that I've been fascinated with since
• 8:42
  Speaker 5: it's almost since childhood.
• 8:44
  Speaker 4: I remember watching the movie.
• 8:45
  Speaker 5: Blade runner, like the idea that a human and a
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  Speaker 5: piece of technology would forge even a friendship.
• 8:52
  Speaker 4: You know, I used to watch, um, Oh God, why
• 8:55
  Speaker 4: am I blanking the name of that movie?
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: Um, 80s movie with the robot and uh his name
• 9:01
  Speaker 5: is uh johnny j5.
• 9:03
  Speaker 3: Oh why am i blanking on that movie oh my
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: god i'm also blanking on it uh short circuit yes.
• 9:08
  Speaker 5: Oh i wasn't even close i was not even i
• 9:10
  Speaker 5: don't know what that is oh my god short circuit
• 9:13
  Speaker 5: so this is i'm like dating myself but it was
• 9:14
  Speaker 5: an 80s movie where a like a guy who is
• 9:18
  Speaker 5: like a toy engineer makes a robot and then him
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  Speaker 5: and this robot kind of create a real bond.
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  Speaker 4: Ever since my whole life.
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  Speaker 5: I've sort of been asking this question of what happens
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  Speaker 5: when a human and a piece of technology become friends,
• 9:34
  Speaker 5: become lovers, become, you know, they have a romance. It's
• 9:37
  Speaker 5: something that, you know, we seem to have a real
• 9:40
  Speaker 5: fascination with it in culture.
• 9:42
  Speaker 3: We really do.
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm so excited to hear your thoughts on this
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: movie as well, because as I was watching this, even though, like,
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: You know, hard to find a more dated movie, uh
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: at least like with its tech stuff and amongst other
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: things than weird science but it does feel as if
• 10:01
  Speaker 2: i'm curious how this sort of factored into your research
• 10:05
  Speaker 2: and your work that media has such a stranglehold on
• 10:09
  Speaker 2: how we view like artificially created characters and i mean
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: to the point where i'm trying to think of the
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: exact example of Oh, I'm thinking of like we recovered
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: her last year, I believe, and how, you know, like
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Samantha was such an influential character that she's cited by
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: tech bros now trying to make Samantha and how like,
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: you know, all media tends to be like this and
• 10:35
  Speaker 2: a lot of but it seems like especially really, really
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: sticky in this area specifically.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 10:41
  Speaker 5: Yeah, it's so funny because Sam Altman, the CEO of OpenAI,
• 10:45
  Speaker 5: has cited her as his favorite movie.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: It was that motherfucker, wasn't it?
• 10:49
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it was.
• 10:50
  Speaker 5: And he said that, you know, he has cited her
• 10:54
  Speaker 5: as the inspiration for the way that he wants humans
• 10:57
  Speaker 5: to interact with his company's AI. But then he will
• 11:01
  Speaker 5: also say, oh, but I don't want people having... intimate
• 11:04
  Speaker 5: connections or like sexual or romantic connections.
• 11:06
  Speaker 4: And I'm like, did you see her?
• 11:08
  Speaker 5: Because intimate and sexual connections is a part of it.
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: It's a huge part of it.
• 11:13
  Speaker 2: It's kind of the reason people liked the movie. And
• 11:17
  Speaker 2: also how, I mean, now I'm just like, I'm talking
• 11:20
  Speaker 2: your ear off. I just need to listen to the book.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: But how we are in media, I think, conditioned to
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: really empathize with these AI characters and to be rooting
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: for them and how that, I mean, at least I
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: personally struggle to, to bring that energy to the real world.
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: You know, I see, I see a clanker in the wild.
• 11:45
  Speaker 2: I want to kick it.
• 11:46
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: That's such a good point.
• 11:48
  Speaker 5: And it totally aligns with when people talk about AI,
• 11:53
  Speaker 5: like it's, I mean, I make tech content all day
• 11:56
  Speaker 5: long and I catch myself saying, oh, well, you know,
• 11:59
  Speaker 5: like personifying AI as if it is real, even though
• 12:03
  Speaker 5: I know that it is not. And it's important to
• 12:05
  Speaker 5: maintain that it's not because it absolutely, you know, empowers
• 12:10
  Speaker 5: tech companies when we talk about their technology in this
• 12:13
  Speaker 5: way where it's something that it's not. When we talk
• 12:14
  Speaker 5: about Chad GPT, like it's sentient or it can do things.
• 12:17
  Speaker 5: When we say things like, oh, Grok did X, Y, Z.
• 12:20
  Speaker 5: And it's like, no, no, no, Grok didn't do anything
• 12:22
  Speaker 5: because Grok's not real.
• 12:23
  Speaker 4: You mean... humans used Grok to do XYZ, right?
• 12:27
  Speaker 5: And so it's always this constant friction that I do
• 12:32
  Speaker 5: very much think, to your point, Jamie, is like really
• 12:36
  Speaker 5: enabled by media about technology, media about sort of like
• 12:40
  Speaker 5: you know, a babe come to life or a robot,
• 12:42
  Speaker 5: you know, did y'all, have y'all covered the movie Companion?
• 12:46
  Speaker 3: We have pretty recently, like within the past year or so.
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:50
  Speaker 5: That's a great example of a movie where like by
• 12:52
  Speaker 5: the end you're rooting for the AI bot.
• 12:55
  Speaker 4: You know, you're like, get it girl.
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: Same with Ex Machina where you're just like, yeah, kill him.
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: And then you're, and it is tricky because when I
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: rewatch movies like Companion or Ex Machina, I'm always rooting
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: for her. It's impossible not to. I was thinking a
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: little bit about, I forget what the name of the
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Sophie Thatcher character in Companion is, but how she has
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: control over her own intelligence and all of that.
• 13:21
  Speaker 4: He set it way down because he wanted her to
• 13:23
  Speaker 4: be a moron.
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: Okay, that's another thing.
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: That appears in this movie.
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: That happens in this movie, although I think they eventually
• 13:30
  Speaker 3: decide to make the woman that they create have einstein
• 13:36
  Speaker 3: level intelligence yeah but like another part of this conversation
• 13:40
  Speaker 3: is like one of the reasons i think that people
• 13:45
  Speaker 3: are fascinated with the idea of like having a an
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: ai companion or like creating a fembot or whatever it is,
• 13:55
  Speaker 3: is the fantasy of being able to create or be
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: with the perfect partner, specifically the perfect woman who they
• 14:05
  Speaker 3: can design to have the exact qualities that these men
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: think that they want. Because real human women come with
• 14:14
  Speaker 3: all of these flaws. But of course, these alleged flaws
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: are often just a woman having opinions and agency and autonomy.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: But yeah, just this idea of like designing the ideal woman,
• 14:26
  Speaker 3: quote unquote, and the implications therein. And we'll talk about
• 14:31
  Speaker 3: how in the movie Weird Science, that concept could have
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: been thoughtfully explored, but isn't.
• 14:38
  Speaker 2: Really yeah i guess it's like this before we like
• 14:41
  Speaker 2: really get into it i know that this is like
• 14:44
  Speaker 2: maybe a very silly question bridget but like does how
• 14:49
  Speaker 2: the two guys in weird science creating lisa kind of
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: square with how a lot of people use ai to
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: simulate intimate experiences Oh.
• 15:02
  Speaker 5: As I was watching it, I was like, this actually,
• 15:05
  Speaker 5: I mean, we can get into some of my issues
• 15:07
  Speaker 5: with the movie, but I was surprised by how much
• 15:10
  Speaker 5: I recognized the scene when they're trying to kind of
• 15:13
  Speaker 5: build their bot babe, how much I recognized that in
• 15:17
  Speaker 5: the research about how people interact with AI when they're
• 15:20
  Speaker 5: sort of building or training AI for things like romance
• 15:24
  Speaker 5: or erotic role play, right?
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: You see people saying... I.
• 15:28
  Speaker 5: Want you to talk to me like this. I want
• 15:30
  Speaker 5: you to treat me like this. You know, really kind
• 15:33
  Speaker 5: of down to the most specific minutiae. essentially building their
• 15:37
  Speaker 5: own bot. I was really, really reminded of the scene
• 15:41
  Speaker 5: when they're feeding in, like, oh, here's the lip she's
• 15:45
  Speaker 5: going to have. For some reason, here's Beethoven's hands for
• 15:49
  Speaker 5: some reason, which they feed in and I guess never
• 15:52
  Speaker 5: return to.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: Which is like one of the biggest missed, like dropped
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: threads in the movie where you're like, and what if
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: she used that to do anything else? But whatever. That's
• 16:01
  Speaker 2: why companion exists, I guess.
• 16:03
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 16:04
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm so excited to jump into it. And I
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: know that there's going to be so many other questions
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: that come up around this intimacy simulation slash mommy, girlfriend, sister,
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: wife situation. But let's get into our history with this movie. Bridget,
• 16:23
  Speaker 2: what's your history with Weird Science?
• 16:25
  Speaker 5: So I had never seen it all the way through.
• 16:28
  Speaker 5: I was pretty familiar with it. But weirdly, when I
• 16:31
  Speaker 5: was growing up, I was obsessed with the short-lived, I guess,
• 16:35
  Speaker 5: miniseries sitcom version of this that used to be on
• 16:38
  Speaker 5: the USA Network.
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: I've seen every episode.
• 16:41
  Speaker 3: Well, it's not even that short-lived. It was 88 episodes.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God.
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: And ran over four years.
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: I guess that that's, like, old-school short-lived, though. Everything used
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: to get, like, 300 episodes.
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, sorry, keep going.
• 16:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, the sitcom, I mean, I was, like, probably eight
• 16:58
  Speaker 5: or nine when I was watching it. I have to
• 17:01
  Speaker 5: imagine that it was worse than the movie, but I still,
• 17:05
  Speaker 5: for some reason, had a real deep soft spot for it.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: And then this was your first time watching the movie.
• 17:11
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I had seen it in bits and pieces. I
• 17:14
  Speaker 5: don't think I had seen it all the way through.
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: And something that I remembered when I was rewatching it
• 17:18
  Speaker 5: for this episode is that in the very first episode
• 17:20
  Speaker 5: of my podcast, There Are No Girls on the Internet,
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: I was interviewing a tech historian named.
• 17:25
  Speaker 4: Claire Evans, who was amazing.
• 17:26
  Speaker 5: And I was asking her, I was like, you know,
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: why do we see technology as this sort of boys'
• 17:32
  Speaker 5: field when the reality is that women and marginalized people
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: were at the start of technology and computers since the
• 17:37
  Speaker 5: very beginning? And she cited a lot of kind of
• 17:40
  Speaker 5: marketing that really kicked in around the 80s that seemed
• 17:44
  Speaker 5: to suggest that technology was, you know, two computer nerds
• 17:48
  Speaker 5: building a babe, like in the movie Weird Science. And
• 17:51
  Speaker 5: so that was the first time that I was like, oh, yeah.
• 17:53
  Speaker 5: But According to this tech historian, weird science was a
• 17:57
  Speaker 5: big part of this marketing idea that made people associate
• 18:01
  Speaker 5: technology and computers with kind of horny, nerdy guys and
• 18:06
  Speaker 5: not the women and girls who had been at the
• 18:08
  Speaker 5: forefront of computers since the very beginning.
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: That's fucking infuriating.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: It is.
• 18:13
  Speaker 1: Woo!
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: Jamie, what about you? What's your relationship with this movie?
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I guess just mainly one of avoidance. Yeah, this is
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: a movie that I knew we would cover one day.
• 18:25
  Speaker 2: There would come a day. But I had like a
• 18:27
  Speaker 2: cultural osmosis understanding of this movie. Basically kind of rooted
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: in what you just said, Bridget, of like the horny boy.
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: Like I've seen this movie compared to like a send
• 18:38
  Speaker 2: up of Frankenstein and a send up of Pygmalion. I see, obviously,
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: there's like clear parallels between both of them, but it
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: is kind of its own thing. And I don't really
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: mean that as a compliment. But yeah, I guess I
• 18:51
  Speaker 2: hadn't seen it all the way through. And I have
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: to say, I'm not a John Hughes fan in general.
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah, me either.
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: He just does not connect for me. And so there's
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: so many interesting things to talk about in this movie itself.
• 19:06
  Speaker 2: I thought it was quite boring. And it made me
• 19:10
  Speaker 2: do something that I didn't know was possible, which was
• 19:13
  Speaker 2: want Bill Paxton to get off my screen. I've never
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: had that feeling before or since. But I think Bill Paxton...
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: bless his heart, is giving one of the most annoying
• 19:22
  Speaker 2: performances I've ever seen. And I love Bill Paxton so much.
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: I can't believe I can't believe that they they did
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: him like this.
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: No, I agree. And he's pretty well known for giving
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: like a quite outlandish character performance.
• 19:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 19:40
  Speaker 3: And he's usually like loud and kooky. I mean, I'm
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: thinking of his character from Aliens and stuff like that.
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: But like this is just like what in the hell
• 19:51
  Speaker 3: is going on?
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: This is a mess. He looks bad, which also is
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: basically impossible to do to Bill Paxton.
• 19:57
  Speaker 4: Terrible haircut.
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Yikes.
• 19:59
  Speaker 5: He's supposed to be like a teenager.
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: Older brother, but he.
• 20:03
  Speaker 3: He's visibly 33.
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: Yeah, he's like visibly balding. He has a receding hairline.
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: It's true.
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: It's true. I can't believe they did My Dear Friend
• 20:11
  Speaker 2: Bill Paxton like that. But yeah, he is obviously 30.
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: And that, I don't know. I struggle with like Gen
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: X cinema in general. I think I kind of struggle with.
• 20:24
  Speaker 2: But when I say that, sometimes I think I'm just
• 20:26
  Speaker 2: talking about John Hughes movies because he is sort of
• 20:28
  Speaker 2: like the name. And this to me is like the
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: worst of John Hughes where it's like, aggressively misogynist there's
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: not really much of a story it's very episodic and
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: all most of the episode most of the episodic pieces
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: have some sort of like very poorly aged either element
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: of racism or sexism.
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: Homophobia and it's boring it's a terrible screenplay boring and
• 20:53
  Speaker 3: that's the biggest crime of all i.
• 20:55
  Speaker 5: Read online that he john hughes wrote this movie even
• 20:58
  Speaker 5: though he's known for writing quickly he wrote this very
• 21:01
  Speaker 5: quickly he wrote this screenplay in less than two days,
• 21:04
  Speaker 5: and I was like, yeah.
• 21:05
  Speaker 4: That checks out. That checks out. No trouble believing that.
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: Men need to stop bragging about how fast they write,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: because it's like.
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: We can tell.
• 21:12
  Speaker 2: Maybe we should have done a second pass, man. Like,
• 21:16
  Speaker 2: what do you mean? But yeah, anyways, this movie, I just...
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: I guess the nice thing I will say is there
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: were more interesting elements and, like, potential for it than
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: I thought.
• 21:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I was surprised that Lisa... has so much power and
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: agency in theory i didn't think she would have basically
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: magical powers she's a wizard question she's kind of a
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: wizard she can freeze your grandparents in time i guess
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: i just wanted more of that but it's.
• 21:49
  Speaker 5: Almost like she's a genie like it's almost getting into
• 21:51
  Speaker 5: like aladdin a little bit yeah.
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: So i was just i was surprised that even though
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: i like as we'll get into it like she doesn't
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: really get to do very much for herself we don't
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: know her she's basically a genie wizard and I like
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: that idea. Right. Yeah. Caitlin, what's your history with this movie?
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: I saw it for the first time, I think like
• 22:11
  Speaker 3: six or seven years ago. It was after we started
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: the podcast, but not super recently. Like it was long
• 22:18
  Speaker 3: enough ago that most of the details were pretty foggy.
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: And I'm also wondering if I even finished it because
• 22:26
  Speaker 3: nothing about the back half of the movie was familiar
• 22:29
  Speaker 3: at all. I was like, what is this Bill Paxton
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: blob monster? What is this Mad Max motorcycle gang that
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: shows up? Like, I didn't remember any of that. So
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: I'm wondering if I just like started it, got like
• 22:44
  Speaker 3: 40 minutes in and was like, well, this fucking is terrible.
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: I hate it.
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: Well, no one's paying me to do this.
• 22:51
  Speaker 3: And then I just turned it off. But yeah, I
• 22:55
  Speaker 3: have no nostalgia for most John Hughes movies aside from
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: There are a select few. I like trains, planes, and automobiles.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: I kind of like Uncle Buck. I've never watched it critically,
• 23:07
  Speaker 2: but I remember being like, I just like John Candy, maybe.
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: Sure, yeah. I mean, John Hughes has stuff that I like.
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 23:13
  Speaker 3: Especially things that he has written but not directed. You know,
• 23:16
  Speaker 3: Home Alone and Beethoven. Never forget. I forgot he wrote Beethoven.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: Never forget he wrote the screenplay for Flubber.
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: Oh!
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: Oh, there's his hit. There's his hit.
• 23:28
  Speaker 4: Flubber Slaps is a good movie. I'll stand by that one. Wow.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: That totally actually, whoa. Do you remember how we got
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: really into, even though unfortunately a lot of negative stuff
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: has come up about him, how Danny Elfman wrote The
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: Flubber Mambo?
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: I'll never forget.
• 23:44
  Speaker 4: Who could forget?
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: And that their working relationship goes back to this movie
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: because Oingo Boingo wrote the theme to Weird Science. Right.
• 23:51
  Speaker 4: Right. Wow.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: Yes. Wow. So, you know, her web connects them all.
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: So we wouldn't have the Flubber Mamba without this movie,
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: I guess. We sure wouldn't.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: But yeah, I really struggled with this one. I am
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: sorry to fans of this movie, but.
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: I don't think fans of this movie are really... I
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: don't know. Truly, listeners, reach out directly. Send us an
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: email if this is one of your favorite. Because it's just...
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: Is this anyone's favorite? Like one of... someone's favorite movies still.
• 24:20
  Speaker 5: I will say i enjoyed it more than i expected
• 24:24
  Speaker 5: to enjoy it and i think there's i i went
• 24:26
  Speaker 5: back to see like what were the reviews of this
• 24:28
  Speaker 5: movie like and i think it was the roger ebert
• 24:31
  Speaker 5: review that i kind of agreed with that there's a
• 24:33
  Speaker 5: misdirect that i think is interesting where in the first
• 24:37
  Speaker 5: 10 minutes of the movie you think oh they're gonna
• 24:39
  Speaker 5: make this robot sex slave who just does whatever they
• 24:43
  Speaker 5: say and that's gonna be their girlfriend they're gonna like
• 24:46
  Speaker 5: have sex with her and date her and.
• 24:47
  Speaker 4: I think that that would be a much worse version
• 24:50
  Speaker 4: of the movie and that's.
• 24:51
  Speaker 5: What I was expecting so I'm not saying it's a
• 24:53
  Speaker 5: good movie but I think they did make a they
• 24:57
  Speaker 5: zigged where I thought they were.
• 24:57
  Speaker 4: Gonna zag which I will I will I will appreciate.
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: That fair they did make her into that's I think
• 25:03
  Speaker 2: the most interesting choice in the movie and the biggest
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: missed opportunity is turning her into a wizard.
• 25:11
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 25:12
  Speaker 3: Well, we'll talk more about it. But first, let's take
• 25:16
  Speaker 3: a quick break.
• 25:18
  Speaker 4: Thank you.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Okay, so here's the recap for Weird Science 1985. We
• 25:34
  Speaker 3: meet two teen boys, Gary, played by Anthony Michael Hall,
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: and Wyatt, played by Elon Mitchell Smith. Two stars with
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: three names each.
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: Child star proxies, child star serial killers.
• 25:49
  Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Yes.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
• 25:51
  Speaker 3: And Gary and Wyatt are uncool and unpopular. They're in
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: gym class, ogling at all of the girls doing gymnastics.
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: They're fantasizing about showering with them. They're fantasizing about throwing
• 26:06
  Speaker 3: a huge party where everyone is invited and all of
• 26:09
  Speaker 3: their classmates come and they think they're so cool. And
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: they particularly have their eyes on two popular girls. named
• 26:18
  Speaker 3: deb and hilly though we will not know their names
• 26:21
  Speaker 3: for about 45.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Minutes no and don't don't let yourself be gaslit by
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: this movie they really make it seem like you should
• 26:28
  Speaker 2: have noticed earlier.
• 26:29
  Speaker 3: Yeah totally so so these guys are looking at these
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: two girls but then the two like popular jock boyfriends
• 26:37
  Speaker 3: of these girls come up behind gary and wyatt This
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: is Max and Ian. Ian played by a young Robert
• 26:45
  Speaker 3: Downey Jr.
• 26:45
  Speaker 4: He was just going by Robert Downey then.
• 26:47
  Speaker 5: When I saw it in the cast, I thought, is
• 26:49
  Speaker 5: that the same Robert Downey as Robert Downey Jr.
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: And it was.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I forget. He's Robert Downey with his original teeth.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: He's so cute.
• 26:58
  Speaker 3: Prevenier's teeth.
• 26:59
  Speaker 2: Well, I do feel like Marvel stars, it's a similar
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: pipeline to Jerry Bruckheimer stars of the 90s and SNL
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: stars to this day. At some point, The boss makes
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: a call and you just get a new set of teeth.
• 27:13
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: Feige said, we're re-upping his contract. Change his mouth. Make
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: his mouth the right shape now.
• 27:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: Give us those chompers.
• 27:20
  Speaker 3: A lot of teeth shaving in the industry.
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: Those same length chompers. This has been my beat for
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: many years. But yeah, it's nice to see someone's original
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: set featured.
• 27:31
  Speaker 3: Indeed.
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 27:33
  Speaker 3: So these two popular boys come up behind Gary and Wyatt.
• 27:36
  Speaker 3: and pants them in front of everyone. So Gary and
• 27:40
  Speaker 3: Wyatt are humiliated. We cut to Gary is staying over
• 27:46
  Speaker 3: at Wyatt's for the weekend while his parents are out
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: of town and they're watching a Frankenstein movie. I don't
• 27:54
  Speaker 3: know which one. And mind you, this is about 30
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: years before I Frankenstein would come out. So I'm sure
• 28:01
  Speaker 3: otherwise they would have been watching that one.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: They would have been. Absolutely. Yes. Yes.
• 28:05
  Speaker 3: But them watching Frankenstein gives Gary an idea. What if
• 28:11
  Speaker 3: they use Wyatt's computer and programming skills that, by the way,
• 28:16
  Speaker 3: have not been previously set up, which is bad screenwriting.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: What if they use these things to create a woman,
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: to simulate a girl on the computer for them to
• 28:30
  Speaker 3: talk to and do sex things with?
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I also, I mean, I feel like the reason
• 28:37
  Speaker 2: we don't learn why he's good at programming is because
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: John Hughes wrote this in two days and he doesn't
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: appear to know how that works because much like a
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: movie we're covering later in this week that is Much better.
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: 2001 A Space Odyssey. Classic. This is, I will say,
• 28:53
  Speaker 2: one of the strengths of this movie is when it
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: randomly like very much loses the plot and it's like
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: hacking sequence. And it's just like kind of vintage screensavers.
• 29:05
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: It's like, okay, so we're really not going to give
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: him a third day to write this? Fine.
• 29:13
  Speaker 5: Nope. I do have a question of this whole time,
• 29:17
  Speaker 5: somebody that he knew, had the ability to conjure up
• 29:21
  Speaker 5: humanoids out of whole cloth using their computer.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: And he just sort of knew that he had this
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: ability the whole time.
• 29:29
  Speaker 5: And it wasn't until watching Frankenstein that he was like,
• 29:31
  Speaker 5: oh yeah, we should make a babe.
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: A shrug.
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. It's very like
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: first draft logic that they're going on.
• 29:45
  Speaker 3: I mean, I guess you could argue that they don't
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: know that they have that ability and it's not until
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: they do all of these like experiments slash like a
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: ritualistic seance with a barbie doll.
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: And a bra bras on.
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: Their head right it's baffling it also reminded me did
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: caitlin i know you didn't grow up with dcoms but
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: bridget have you seen the movie pixel perfect it's the
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: disney movie It's a Disney Channel movie from the 2000s.
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: Yes, yes.
• 30:17
  Speaker 2: I have seen it. That was the other. I was like,
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: what is another example of like a very, because obviously
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of like women's cyborg movies, but I'm
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: like a teen boy, like just goofing around and blah, blah, blah.
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: And Pixel Perfect feels like the closest thing. But I
• 30:32
  Speaker 2: think he created a pop star to help his friend.
• 30:35
  Speaker 2: He created like a cyborg pop star.
• 30:36
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: So it wasn't just as this movie will lead you
• 30:40
  Speaker 2: to believe because they're horny. they're horny and bored right.
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: Yeah and another disney channel classic smart house where i
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: don't know if y'all have seen that but yes the
• 30:51
  Speaker 5: the kid wins a house that comes with like a
• 30:55
  Speaker 5: essentially an ai mom who is running their smart house
• 30:59
  Speaker 5: and yeah it's like it's like he has lost his
• 31:02
  Speaker 5: mother so it's almost like a grieve like it's interesting
• 31:04
  Speaker 5: that that movies so often it's oh, I'm creating a woman,
• 31:09
  Speaker 5: a tech woman to help with some sort of issue.
• 31:12
  Speaker 5: Help my friend, help me grieve. But this one is like,
• 31:14
  Speaker 5: we're horny. That's the reason why.
• 31:17
  Speaker 3: We're making a baby.
• 31:19
  Speaker 4: Help me jerk off. Help me squeeze one out.
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: We really go down to the basis level. And as
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about, she takes on, of course, also this
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: maternal quality towards them that... Confuses everything. And anyways, let's
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: just keep going.
• 31:39
  Speaker 3: Okay, so Gary and Wyatt design her appearance and her
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: intelligence level. We will talk about this sequence in a
• 31:49
  Speaker 3: lot more detail. But they're designing her. They're hacking into
• 31:54
  Speaker 3: the mainframe. They hook up a Barbie to the computer somehow.
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: Are her boobs big? Are her boobs small? No, they're big.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Is she a fifth grader?
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: No, she's a genius.
• 32:07
  Speaker 2: Um, I, I do appreciate it. It doesn't really follow
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: through in Gary's character at all, but he's like, no,
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: she has to be a genius. We have to hack
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: the government or something. And you're like, why does he
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: think that? Like, cause it doesn't really, he doesn't seem
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: to appreciate intelligence and women outside of this one scene.
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: But I think maybe he's like, Oh, this is my side.
• 32:28
  Speaker 2: Like more thinking like I need a super smart cyborg
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: versus smart women are more interesting to be around.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the impression I got.
• 32:36
  Speaker 4: Same.
• 32:37
  Speaker 5: He does mention that if they make her smart, they
• 32:39
  Speaker 5: can play chess with her. Yes.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: Which I would have liked to see. I would have
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: liked to see it.
• 32:44
  Speaker 5: There's a lot of Chekhov's robot specifications where they give
• 32:49
  Speaker 5: her Beethoven's hands and there's a piano in the house.
• 32:52
  Speaker 5: And I kind of was like, where's the scene where
• 32:54
  Speaker 5: she plays piano good or plays chess good?
• 32:56
  Speaker 3: Nothing pays off.
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: No.
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: She doesn't do... Einstein, well.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: You know, I hear a pretty smart guy that was
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: not a wizard who could freeze grandparents. Who could just
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: conjure cars out of nowhere and change your outfit with
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: the snap of a finger. I don't know.
• 33:16
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know. Well, that's the weird science of
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: it all, I guess. And speaking of weird science, they
• 33:23
  Speaker 3: do that like. thing with the bras on their head.
• 33:27
  Speaker 3: And this like turns the sky red. There's lightning striking.
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: All of the electronics in the house are going haywire,
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: which I will say there are some cool effects in
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: that sequence.
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:39
  Speaker 2: Cool practical effects.
• 33:40
  Speaker 4: Dog walking on the ceiling.
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: Kind of cool.
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: Pretty cool. And then the next thing they know, the
• 33:46
  Speaker 3: Barbie doll has transformed into a quote unquote real woman.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 33:54
  Speaker 3: And she is played by Kelly LeBrock, who I wasn't
• 33:58
  Speaker 3: super familiar with. And I kept thinking she was Elizabeth Hurley,
• 34:02
  Speaker 3: but she is in fact not.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: No, she has been in a few things, but I
• 34:08
  Speaker 2: think she was primarily... She popularized the phrase. Wait, I
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: wrote this down because I thought it was interesting. She
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: was the spokesmodel who said the line, don't hate me
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: because I'm beautiful. That was her. So cultural impact felt.
• 34:27
  Speaker 5: I looked her up after watching the movie because I thought,
• 34:29
  Speaker 5: you know, it seemed like she was poised to have
• 34:32
  Speaker 5: a big career. And all the reviews I read of
• 34:34
  Speaker 5: Weird Science, they all praised her for Her in this movie.
• 34:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 34:39
  Speaker 5: I will say, I looked her up on Instagram, posted
• 34:41
  Speaker 5: some pretty intense stuff around the COVID times. I will
• 34:46
  Speaker 5: say that about her. Her current digital footprint. I was like, okay,
• 34:50
  Speaker 5: that's what's going on.
• 34:50
  Speaker 3: Yikes.
• 34:51
  Speaker 2: Wait. A woman in her 60s having some questionable ideas
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: around technology. Oh, well, that's unfortunate. Yeah, I think this
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: is the only thing I've seen her in. And I
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: do agree. She gives, I think, an interesting performance for
• 35:10
  Speaker 2: a character that could not be more all over the place.
• 35:13
  Speaker 3: Oh my, so all over the place. I also wonder
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: if the reason she reminds me of Elizabeth Hurley is
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: that I feel like her character is quite similar to
• 35:22
  Speaker 3: Elizabeth Hurley's character in bedazzled is that.
• 35:25
  Speaker 2: The name of that movie yeah brendan frasier.
• 35:27
  Speaker 3: I was thinking the same thing okay well she's playing
• 35:30
  Speaker 3: the devil though jesus i'm like what is going on
• 35:33
  Speaker 3: with lisa is she a wizard does she like is
• 35:35
  Speaker 3: she where is she from right well they both have
• 35:39
  Speaker 3: magical powers that allow them to manipulate different things in
• 35:43
  Speaker 3: their environment so that's true i'm like basically same character.
• 35:47
  Speaker 2: Well, it's so silly, yeah, because this movie and others
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: suggest that the most... Because this movie conflates magic and
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: science so thoroughly, I feel like the movie would sort
• 35:58
  Speaker 2: of lead you to believe that the most powerful source
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: of energy in the world is a horny teenage boy,
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: which I really hope is not the case. That would
• 36:11
  Speaker 2: be very upsetting. Mm-hmm. As we know, the greatest source
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: of energy available in the world is children's screams. There's
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: a documentary about it.
• 36:19
  Speaker 3: Oh, a documentary called Monsters Incorporated.
• 36:22
  Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. Yes, of course. Yeah.
• 36:25
  Speaker 3: Anyway, so Gary and Wyatt have created this woman and
• 36:31
  Speaker 3: they will eventually think to give her a name and
• 36:34
  Speaker 3: that name will be Lisa, but it takes a while.
• 36:37
  Speaker 3: She asks them what the boys would like to do first,
• 36:40
  Speaker 3: which is showering with her. while she is fully naked
• 36:45
  Speaker 3: and the boys still have on their pants and shoes.
• 36:50
  Speaker 3: Then Lisa takes them out for a night on the town.
• 36:55
  Speaker 3: She changes their outfits. She has a pink convertible now
• 37:00
  Speaker 3: and takes them to a place called the candy bar
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: where the boys feel very out of place. But eventually
• 37:07
  Speaker 3: Gary gets super drunk. And what follows is.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: Another scene we'll talk about, but.
• 37:14
  Speaker 2: It's absurd how long this racist pit continues. It continues
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: like three scenes after.
• 37:24
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 37:24
  Speaker 5: Like when they leave the club and they're like driving
• 37:27
  Speaker 5: back and they're transitioning into the next scene and you're thinking,
• 37:30
  Speaker 5: surely this is, we're abandoning this little bit. It's still
• 37:34
  Speaker 5: going on.
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: It's still going on when he goes home. Like, He
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: has to be fully unconscious before we can be freed
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: of this horrendous bit. I don't know. I know that
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: both of the guys are, I don't know, Anthony Michael Hall,
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: he's a teenager in this. Tell him to knock that
• 37:52
  Speaker 2: shit off. But it seems like John Hughes perhaps wanted it.
• 37:55
  Speaker 5: Yeah, Anthony Michael Hall is going for it. I feel
• 37:57
  Speaker 5: like someone was like, really? Give it your all with this.
• 38:01
  Speaker 4: Because he's really going for it.
• 38:02
  Speaker 2: He's really going for it.
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: Yeah. And if you're not familiar with the movie slash
• 38:07
  Speaker 3: don't remember, here's what we're talking about. Gary is talking
• 38:12
  Speaker 3: to a group of mostly older black men and he's
• 38:15
  Speaker 3: putting on a black scent and telling them a story
• 38:20
  Speaker 3: about a girl that he had a crush on last year.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: And then you're like, surely this isn't going to get worse.
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: And then it immediately does.
• 38:26
  Speaker 3: It keeps getting worse.
• 38:27
  Speaker 2: Lisa says a slur. Lisa says a homophobic slur. And
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: moments later, you're just like, ah, get me out of here.
• 38:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Everything about this scene is horrendous. Then they head
• 38:38
  Speaker 3: back to Wyatt's house where Wyatt's older brother, Chet, played
• 38:43
  Speaker 3: by Bill Paxton of Titanic Brock Lovett fame has arrived
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: home from military school. And as we were alluding to earlier,
• 38:54
  Speaker 3: Chet is this like very unstable aggro dude with a
• 39:00
  Speaker 3: terrible haircut. He torments Wyatt and Gary. He's like blackmailing
• 39:07
  Speaker 3: and extorting them for money. Gary drunkenly tells Chet about
• 39:11
  Speaker 3: a woman they made. But he doesn't believe them. You
• 39:14
  Speaker 3: also keep thinking that something's going to happen with like
• 39:17
  Speaker 3: Chet finding out about Lisa and that's going to have
• 39:19
  Speaker 3: consequences and bearing on the plot of this story. But
• 39:23
  Speaker 3: kind of never because Chet just disappears for a while.
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: This movie leaves you with such narrative blue ball. where
• 39:30
  Speaker 2: every time they seem to stumble upon potential stakes for
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: a scene, they will just get rid of them as
• 39:38
  Speaker 2: quickly as possible. I think the sequence that made me
• 39:41
  Speaker 2: most frustrated was like, It takes them an hour, but
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: they're like, oh, someone's going to come to the house
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: during the party. It's the grandparents. Steaks, steaks, steaks. And
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: then the second they get there, you're like, oh, actually,
• 39:53
  Speaker 2: Lisa's a wizard, so there's no problem. I was like,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: this was the first problem we've seen presented.
• 39:59
  Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's like, the build-ups, the grandparent scene is
• 40:02
  Speaker 5: a great example because they build it up so much
• 40:05
  Speaker 5: where they show you, the grandparents don't just happen to
• 40:08
  Speaker 5: stop by. The movie takes you to the grandparents having
• 40:12
  Speaker 5: dinner and being like, you know what we should do
• 40:14
  Speaker 5: after dinner is go pay a visit to our grandson
• 40:17
  Speaker 5: because grandkids love when their grandparents visit.
• 40:21
  Speaker 4: They really spend a lot.
• 40:22
  Speaker 5: Of time building up these things I don't even think
• 40:26
  Speaker 5: we see the grandparents get unfrozen.
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: After they're frozen.
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: I don't think so.
• 40:30
  Speaker 2: We don't know if Lisa shows them mercy in the end,
• 40:33
  Speaker 2: I guess. I know we're getting a little ahead of ourselves,
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: but I think that even though the grandparents are a
• 40:42
  Speaker 2: very stereotypical presentation of older people, their camp, to me,
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: those performances were so... funny it seemed like those actors
• 40:52
  Speaker 2: were having a fun time being like my grandson what
• 40:56
  Speaker 2: do you mean like this is my daughter's house right
• 41:01
  Speaker 2: the way john hughes writes parents i'm like you know
• 41:03
  Speaker 2: your parent age right um but.
• 41:06
  Speaker 3: Whatever yeah didn't he do something similar with the grandparent
• 41:09
  Speaker 3: characters in 16 candles i want to say.
• 41:13
  Speaker 2: Oh i don't let myself think about 16 candles so i'm.
• 41:18
  Speaker 3: Not sure understandable Okay, so then we cut to a
• 41:22
  Speaker 3: random scene where Lisa approaches Wyatt. She is standing directly
• 41:28
  Speaker 3: behind him. He does not notice for a while. He's like, Lisa,
• 41:33
  Speaker 3: where are you? And then she's like, I'm right here.
• 41:36
  Speaker 3: Hey stud, I'm right here. Let's kiss. And then we
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: see an adult woman who was 24 in real life
• 41:45
  Speaker 3: kissing a teen boy who was 15 in real life.
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Which is something that john hughes does all the time
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: like it's like yeah it's like you couldn't be less
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: surprised to see it unfortunately like this is his it
• 42:00
  Speaker 2: happens in i would say most of his movies what's
• 42:03
  Speaker 2: going on there I mean, we'll refer back to it
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: because we talked about it in our, probably our 16
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: Candles episode and definitely our Pretty in Pink episode, but
• 42:12
  Speaker 2: that Molly Ringwald has written pretty extensively about just like
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: how she feels about the experience of working on John
• 42:21
  Speaker 2: Hughes movies, how she feels they've all aged rather poorly.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: She feels weird showing them to her own children. I
• 42:27
  Speaker 2: don't think we covered Pretty in Pink. Did we? I don't.
• 42:31
  Speaker 5: I'm.
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: Who can say? No answer would surprise me. But yeah,
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: that like this is this is very much. And it's
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: like John Hughes. It's easy to like single him out
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: as like the culprit. But it's just like the culture
• 42:42
  Speaker 2: of the time was so permissive of this. I mean,
• 42:45
  Speaker 2: you think of like any of the raunchy comedies of
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: the 80s, 90s into the 2000s. I mean, even there's
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: like a running bit about that in Booksmart, which is
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: like a five or six year old movie about, I
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: think it's like a teacher played by maybe Jessica Williams,
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: like a cool older teacher who comes to the kids party.
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: And like, this is a trope that like, you know,
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: adults hitting on children exists in raunchy comedies to this day.
• 43:13
  Speaker 3: And being played as either funny and hilarious and a
• 43:17
  Speaker 3: joke or... Romantic and sexy.
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: It's not tricky. Like, nothing in this movie is particularly
• 43:24
  Speaker 2: tricky or subtle. But, like, I think because of... In story,
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: it's tricky because the question of, like, well, who is Lisa? Like,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: what is Lisa? Is kind of confusing. Is she... Because
• 43:38
  Speaker 2: she's not... a person that she's a, she's a wizard. Like,
• 43:43
  Speaker 2: I don't know. I agree with you that the optics
• 43:45
  Speaker 2: of an adult woman kissing a teenage boy is gross,
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: regardless of the Turing test of it all. But like
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: in story, it's also very bizarre and off-putting, I thought.
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: Definitely. And we'll talk more about that later as well.
• 44:00
  Speaker 3: But they're kissing. It's framed as romantic. And then Off screen,
• 44:07
  Speaker 3: they apparently try to have sex, but we'll learn that
• 44:10
  Speaker 3: Wyatt passed out like 10 seconds into it. So they
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: don't keep going with that.
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: Another John Hughes classic is suggesting things. Yes. Another John
• 44:21
  Speaker 2: Hughes classic is the sexual assault, usually of a minor.
• 44:24
  Speaker 3: Yes, while they are unconscious. Yeah. We cut to the
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: next morning. Wyatt and Gary wake up and they think
• 44:33
  Speaker 3: that maybe this whole thing with Lisa was a dream.
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: The theme music from The Exorcist is playing for some reason.
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
• 44:41
  Speaker 4: That was weird. And also never explained, really.
• 44:44
  Speaker 2: I was not understanding.
• 44:45
  Speaker 4: Okay.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: I'm glad that you both said that because I was like,
• 44:49
  Speaker 2: I've seen The Exorcist many times and I'm not understanding
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: the reference here.
• 44:54
  Speaker 3: Because it makes no sense.
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: Okay. But then Wyatt gets out of bed and he's
• 44:59
  Speaker 3: wearing Lisa's underwear. And Lisa is downstairs wearing making the
• 45:05
  Speaker 3: boys breakfast because in addition to fulfilling their sexual fantasies,
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: she's also doing domestic labor for them.
• 45:12
  Speaker 2: She's also their mommy, of course. Yes, of course. She's
• 45:15
  Speaker 2: also their mommy and sexual tutor. Nothing weird about that.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: No strange precedents set there. Nope.
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: And then Chet comes in and bullies Wyatt some more.
• 45:28
  Speaker 3: This happens every few scenes. And Chet freaks out about
• 45:32
  Speaker 3: the panties that Wyatt is wearing.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: There's a whole transphobic runner there.
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: You do get Bill Paxton showing his butt cheeks.
• 45:41
  Speaker 3: This is true.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: It's cold comfort. It's cold comfort. But yeah, there is
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: like that transphobic runner that I also like, this is
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: not the point of it, but I also was like,
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: it took me a second to figure out what was
• 45:54
  Speaker 2: going on because I They're very, I thought, gender neutral underwear.
• 45:59
  Speaker 4: Yeah. They're just briefs.
• 46:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 46:01
  Speaker 5: But his brother is like, those are women's underpants.
• 46:06
  Speaker 4: There's no amount of money you could ever pay me
• 46:08
  Speaker 4: to not make a huge deal about this.
• 46:11
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 46:11
  Speaker 2: And you're like, I honestly wasn't. I didn't realize that
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: at first because they seem kind of like anyone could
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: wear them. Which is not even the point because there's
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: also I think a very how did this make the
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: final cut of the movie? Why are we still watching it?
• 46:26
  Speaker 2: Like close up of an underage boy's crotch leading into
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: that scene too which you're also like that's just fucking disgusting.
• 46:37
  Speaker 3: Okay so then we cut to Wyatt and Gary at
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: the mall buying perfume for Lisa but their bullies Max
• 46:47
  Speaker 3: and Ian are there and they dump slushies onto the boys' heads.
• 46:52
  Speaker 3: And then the bully's girlfriends, Deb and Hilly, whose names
• 46:56
  Speaker 3: we still don't know, contemplate dumping their boyfriends for being jerks,
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: but they decide against it because dumping them would hurt
• 47:06
  Speaker 3: the girls' social status. Then Max and Ian see Lisa
• 47:13
  Speaker 3: at the mall, and they're like hubba hubba awooga cartoonish
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: like they're chasing after her they're.
• 47:21
  Speaker 4: Going up the down escalator to get.
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: To her it's very hijinks yeah.
• 47:26
  Speaker 3: And then they watch her get into an expensive sports
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: car i don't know if this is the porsche or
• 47:33
  Speaker 3: whatever but gary is driving it and she gets in
• 47:37
  Speaker 3: and she's like hey babe and so max and ian
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: are like what the hell how does this fucking nerd
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: get this girl, blah, blah, blah. And then Lisa invites
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: Max and Ian to a party at Wyatt's house that
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: night because she's trying to help the boys seem cool
• 47:59
  Speaker 3: and to get more popular. That is her mission objective
• 48:03
  Speaker 3: or whatever.
• 48:04
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: Which we never see fully outlined. Again, it's kind of like,
• 48:09
  Speaker 2: and after a while you sort of like say, okay,
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: I guess that it is Lisa's programmed like because it's
• 48:16
  Speaker 2: so unclear what they're making her for and it just
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: seems for strictly perverted reasons but her understanding of what
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: her purpose is her function is is to make the
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: boys cool not to listen to them and that becomes
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: like a back and forth throughout the middle chunk of
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: the movie and like everything with this movie it goes
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: nowhere but it's another interesting question that has kind of
• 48:40
  Speaker 2: dropped where there's a series of scenes where Where Lisa
• 48:45
  Speaker 2: has quite a bit of agency. She's not listening to them.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: She's not being servile. she's acting to what I guess
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: her mission is, which is to make them cool, whether
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: they like it or not. And like doing whatever she
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: knows how to do, which is like includes, but it's
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: not limited to being a wizard to make this happen
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: for them. And there's like a few scenes where the
• 49:06
  Speaker 2: boys are like, this doesn't make any sense. We made her,
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: she's ours. Why isn't she listening to us? Which is
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: an interesting thing to explore if you were capable as
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: a writer of doing so.
• 49:18
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: This, reminded me, I mean, not that I think that
• 49:22
  Speaker 5: John Hughes was thinking about this back in 1980, whatever,
• 49:26
  Speaker 5: when this movie was written, but this bit of it
• 49:28
  Speaker 5: actually quite reminded me of what it actually feels like
• 49:31
  Speaker 5: to use technology like AI, where, you know, you're told
• 49:35
  Speaker 5: that you're sold this promise that it's going to make,
• 49:37
  Speaker 5: it's going to listen to you and make everything.
• 49:40
  Speaker 4: Easier and better. And then in the end, you're like, why?
• 49:43
  Speaker 4: It's not listening.
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: It's not doing, I asked it to do X and
• 49:45
  Speaker 5: now it's doing Y. That I actually thought that they
• 49:48
  Speaker 5: actually captured the experience of using AI actually quite well.
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: It doesn't actually do what it is you're expecting it
• 49:54
  Speaker 5: to do or want it to do even.
• 49:56
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, that's an interesting, and I feel
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: like that sets up, I don't know. I mean, like,
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: I don't know where I wanted this story to land
• 50:05
  Speaker 2: because I am so like it's so all over the place.
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: But like that stands to introduce some like interesting stakes
• 50:12
  Speaker 2: and consequences for the boys. Like, will they regret having
• 50:16
  Speaker 2: done so if all of a sudden not a person,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: a being that, or not even a being. What do I, Bridget,
• 50:24
  Speaker 2: what do I call her? What do we call her?
• 50:27
  Speaker 2: What is Lisa?
• 50:28
  Speaker 4: It?
• 50:28
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: That sounds dehumanizing, but she's not a human. So, you know.
• 50:32
  Speaker 2: So like they're like, okay, we made this thing and
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: I'm not making women objects, but Lisa's not a person.
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: Like we made this thing and it's more powerful than
• 50:42
  Speaker 2: we realize. And it's now outside of our control. What
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: are we going to do? This movie seems like so
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: unwilling to really think about that question crucially and like
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: and i am not a fan of the movie her
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: at all i think it has done kind of quite
• 50:59
  Speaker 2: a bit of net harm intended or not but at
• 51:02
  Speaker 2: least that movie is willing to explore like you know
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: an ai is sort of designed to move past you
• 51:10
  Speaker 2: but that is not you know i'm sure it has
• 51:13
  Speaker 2: to do with just like the technology was not nowhere
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: near where it was even when her existed but like
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: but lisa we have no insight into where lisa will
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: go from here once her mission is accomplished it seems
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: like she gets a part-time job as a gym teacher
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: at the end like i don't know if there is
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: like an opportunity that has since been explored it's not
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: like this is net this thread has been totally dropped
• 51:40
  Speaker 2: but like what is lisa What does Lisa do when
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: this task is like, why would Lisa have any loyalty
• 51:49
  Speaker 2: to these boys if she has we know she has
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: the intelligence due to the whatever scans of Beethoven she has?
• 51:58
  Speaker 3: To advance past them pretty easily. Albert Einstein's face equals
• 52:02
  Speaker 3: genius level intelligence.
• 52:03
  Speaker 2: Thought is where it's.
• 52:05
  Speaker 4: Just his face.
• 52:06
  Speaker 5: I do think there's a better, even for the kind
• 52:10
  Speaker 5: of movie that it is, there's a better version of
• 52:12
  Speaker 5: that movie hiding in this movie.
• 52:14
  Speaker 4: Maybe if it wasn't written in 48 hours, we would
• 52:16
  Speaker 4: see it.
• 52:16
  Speaker 5: But that question that you just posed is the thing
• 52:19
  Speaker 5: that I was left with, which is the boys start
• 52:22
  Speaker 5: out by saying, we want to get laid, we want
• 52:25
  Speaker 5: a babe, this and that.
• 52:26
  Speaker 4: I understand that.
• 52:27
  Speaker 5: What is happening with Lisa that she interprets that the
• 52:32
  Speaker 5: way that she does? And it's like, oh, they hardly
• 52:35
  Speaker 5: ever have much sexual connection with her. They kiss and
• 52:38
  Speaker 5: they shower. But it's not like Lisa becomes their girlfriend.
• 52:42
  Speaker 5: So my question is, what is going on with Lisa
• 52:46
  Speaker 5: that Lisa interprets that is, I need to make them confident.
• 52:49
  Speaker 5: I need to set up all these... Situations where they
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: can feel confident and powerful and like, you know, talk
• 52:56
  Speaker 5: sternly to motorcycle mutants and stuff. That's the question that
• 53:00
  Speaker 5: I have. And then again, at the end, I know
• 53:02
  Speaker 5: we're going to get there, but so it's just her
• 53:04
  Speaker 5: directive to just be around teenage boys forever, like shepherding
• 53:11
  Speaker 5: them into... more confident adolescents or what?
• 53:16
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 53:16
  Speaker 4: And why?
• 53:17
  Speaker 3: I mean, I wonder, I wonder if the movie is implying,
• 53:20
  Speaker 3: and I don't necessarily think this is true, but maybe
• 53:25
  Speaker 3: it's saying that she's imbued with so much intelligence that
• 53:30
  Speaker 3: she very quickly realizes that these boys having some sort
• 53:35
  Speaker 3: of like romantic or sexual relationship with her is unsustainable
• 53:40
  Speaker 3: and not good for them. So she's like, okay, how
• 53:43
  Speaker 3: can I turn this around and help them get girlfriends
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: and be in relationships that are sustainable? Again, I don't
• 53:51
  Speaker 3: think the movie is necessarily... Smart enough to be suggesting
• 53:57
  Speaker 3: that that's what's happening, but maybe. I don't know.
• 54:01
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know.
• 54:02
  Speaker 5: If I'm underthinking it or overthinking it, if that makes
• 54:04
  Speaker 5: sense with this movie.
• 54:07
  Speaker 4: Maybe it's both.
• 54:08
  Speaker 3: Because nothing's clear enough in the movie.
• 54:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, it is interesting. I don't know. There's
• 54:14
  Speaker 2: a lot of interesting questions that are posed, especially in
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: the framing of... Now, I mean, I know we're about
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: to get into a sequence that is really just like
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: bigoted hijink after bigoted hijink. Like we're entering that phase
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: of the movie at this point. But I was, I mean,
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: I'm just going to say it before it like leaves
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: my brain. But the way this movie ends, which we'll
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: talk about in more detail, but sort of leaves Lisa
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: in kind of, it seems like they don't know what
• 54:39
  Speaker 2: to do with her after she's outlived her use to
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: the boys. She's just kind of put somewhere as a
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: visual gag more than anything else. And I think about AI...
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: if Lisa is a fem bot, I don't really know
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: how to classify her. But like, when I think about
• 54:53
  Speaker 2: how AI movies that have feminine presences coded now, they
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: so often end on like a good for her note.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: Yeah. Ex machina companion.
• 55:06
  Speaker 4: Her, I would argue as well.
• 55:08
  Speaker 2: Her, yes. And that these stories are crucially all written
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: by men. And I feel like that gets so messy,
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: including in the way that I'm sure that Caitlin, like
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: you and I have talked about it in the past,
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: because it's hard not to be like good for her,
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: but then you're rooting for an AI. And I just
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: find it interesting that all these stories are written by men,
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: I guess they're I don't know. I don't know.
• 55:27
  Speaker 5: See, I find the ending of this movie the opposite
• 55:31
  Speaker 5: of good for her because.
• 55:33
  Speaker 4: Yes, for sure.
• 55:33
  Speaker 5: You know, at the end of the movie, her, Samantha
• 55:36
  Speaker 5: and the other AIs, I guess they find enlightenment and they.
• 55:40
  Speaker 3: They fuck off to some other plane of existence.
• 55:43
  Speaker 5: Yeah, they evolve to a new plane that humans can't
• 55:46
  Speaker 5: get to or whatever.
• 55:46
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 55:47
  Speaker 5: Companion, we're left feeling like, okay, she's on the road.
• 55:51
  Speaker 5: Ex Machina, all of these kind of good-for-her endings. Lisa,
• 55:55
  Speaker 5: it seems to be trapped in perpetual servitude to teenage boys.
• 56:01
  Speaker 5: It's very much the opposite of good for her, bad
• 56:03
  Speaker 5: for her in my book.
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I totally agree. I just think it's interesting
• 56:06
  Speaker 2: that that's how the ending to this story has evolved
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: over time because it seems, I'm sure that there's other
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen all AI. I'm sure you've seen more
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: than we have, Bridget. But it's like the big ones
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: from the last 10 years sort of seem to have
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: this repeating beat that... Definitely. wants you to root for
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: an AI sort of under the guise of feminism. It's
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: also impossible not... I can't not root for Sophie Thatcher
• 56:35
  Speaker 2: at the end of Companion. Are you kidding me? But
• 56:37
  Speaker 2: what are the implications? I just... I would be so
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: curious to see anyone but a cis man try, like
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: take that premise and find a new ending for it.
• 56:52
  Speaker 3: For sure. Yeah.
• 56:53
  Speaker 5: And I never really put together until you said that,
• 56:57
  Speaker 5: that oftentimes the bots are feminized. The bots usually have
• 57:03
  Speaker 5: to go up against some sort of masculine threat or
• 57:07
  Speaker 5: masculine power structure. And a lot of the movies do
• 57:11
  Speaker 5: have this sort of like rah-rah sisterhood feminism kind of undercurrent.
• 57:16
  Speaker 5: What are they saying about women? You know what I mean?
• 57:22
  Speaker 5: I've never really thought about this before, but what are
• 57:23
  Speaker 5: they saying about women? That feminism is being sold through
• 57:27
  Speaker 5: these ladybots that aren't real.
• 57:30
  Speaker 3: Right, because these movies, if there are human women characters
• 57:34
  Speaker 3: in them, they're like secondary or tertiary characters. They're not
• 57:37
  Speaker 3: the focus.
• 57:38
  Speaker 2: And they're often presented as direct foils to the fembot
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: who we're rooting for. I'm thinking of the... I don't
• 57:44
  Speaker 2: remember the character's name. I'm going to pull up Scarlet
• 57:47
  Speaker 2: Journal Wikipedia, but the secondary... character in companion is presented
• 57:52
  Speaker 2: as a direct foil to our hero fembot okay character
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: named cat.
• 57:57
  Speaker 3: Or the olivia wild character in her Who is like, sure.
• 58:00
  Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the ex-wife character in her.
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: Every other woman in her.
• 58:04
  Speaker 5: The human women in her are like, who would want
• 58:07
  Speaker 5: to deal with this irrationality?
• 58:09
  Speaker 3: Am I right?
• 58:10
  Speaker 4: Bitches be crazy. Look at this human woman, all her
• 58:14
  Speaker 4: hang up.
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: All divorcing.
• 58:15
  Speaker 4: You know how human women be divorcing?
• 58:21
  Speaker 2: And then also at the end, I mean, ultimately her
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: is about a man who can't not get divorced because
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: even Samantha divorces him. And what does that say about you?
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: What does that say about you if your AI divorces you?
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm like, maybe this is a totally different
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: podcast because you're totally right, Bridget. Lisa's ending is very
• 58:42
  Speaker 2: kind of ghoulish in a very different way. But that
• 58:45
  Speaker 2: in those stories around AI, women coded characters from the
• 58:51
  Speaker 2: last 10 to 15 years, we're not generally given a
• 58:55
  Speaker 2: human woman to root for. It's really just the AI
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: that we're rooting for. And how does that shape our view?
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: And how does that shape the public view of AI?
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: I'm sure quite a bit bleak.
• 59:09
  Speaker 4: Very bleak.
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: In any case here's what happens in the rest of
• 59:14
  Speaker 3: weird science so it's been vaguely established that Lisa's goal
• 59:23
  Speaker 3: is or objective or whatever is to try to get
• 59:27
  Speaker 3: these boys to seem cool and to get more popular.
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: So she throws a party more or less. Lisa goes
• 59:34
  Speaker 3: to Gary's house to pick him up for the party
• 59:38
  Speaker 3: and has a conversation with his parents who were like, Um,
• 59:43
  Speaker 3: who is this adult woman you're hanging out.
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: With, Gary? This scene goes off the rails.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: This scene is absolutely nuts. They try to forbid Gary
• 59:53
  Speaker 3: from going to the party. An argument breaks out and
• 59:56
  Speaker 3: then Lisa pulls a gun on Gary's father. It's later
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 3: revealed that this is just a squirt gun, but no
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 3: one knows that because it looks like a real pistol.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 3: And then also apparently Lisa erases Gary's parents' memory of
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 3: this interaction and But now Gary's dad doesn't remember his
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 3: son at all. So she also has like mind erasing powers.
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: I kind of love that Lisa can do these things,
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 2: but it's just deployed completely at random.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think the performance in that scene is good. Also,
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 2: the way that John Hughes writes parents in his like
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: broad comedy specifically, he does have that. That's what's so
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: frustrating about him is like we know he can't write
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: a more nuanced parent. So when he doesn't, he's choosing
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: not to. Yeah, whatever. The way that the mom reacts
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: when she finds out her 17-year-old son has jerked off
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: before pissed me right off. Where she's like, you what?
• 1:00:56
  Speaker 2: I was like, look, if you know the parents of
• 1:00:59
  Speaker 2: a teenage boy, they're aware. They're aware. If you've had
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: a brother, you're aware.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 3: I know.
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 4: I fully did not understand this scene.
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 5: I had to rewind it because I was like, did
• 1:01:09
  Speaker 5: I miss something here? I fully did not understand what
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 5: was going on with this part.
• 1:01:13
  Speaker 2: Of the movie.
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: No, it's just, yeah, character, parent characters being written as
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 3: caricatures and it's baffling. But anyway, Gary is now able
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 3: to go to the party. So we cut back to
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 3: Wyatt's house. People show up for the party. It seems
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 3: like hundreds of their classmates are there, including... the bullies,
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: Max and Ian, as well as their girlfriends, Deb and Hilly.
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: Which is, I think, here is where we learn what
• 1:01:43
  Speaker 2: their names are.
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a scene where Wyatt and Gary are in
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 3: the bathroom, kind of hiding, because they're like, we don't
• 1:01:51
  Speaker 3: know how to be at a party. And then the
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: two girls come in, and then Wyatt and Gary have
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 3: a little sidebar where they're like, Lisa's great and everything,
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 3: but these girls... Are awesome. And we want them to
• 1:02:08
  Speaker 3: be our girlfriends.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 5: Are they?
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 2: Because I guess I was confused. Do they know each
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: other and the girls just forget? Or do they genuinely
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 2: all not know each other? Because to speak to the
• 1:02:20
  Speaker 2: writing of this movie, the boys are still introducing themselves
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: at the end of the movie to them. So I'm like,
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 2: don't they go to school together? I'm confused.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 5: Aren't these the girls they watch at the beginning of
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 5: the movie in gymnastics class?
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:02:34
  Speaker 3: So it seems like the boys know the girls, but
• 1:02:36
  Speaker 3: the girls don't know the boys. Like these boys are
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 3: too loserish, quote unquote, and nerdy or whatever. For them
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 3: to be on the girls' radar.
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: But they also saw an IC get dumped on them, like, yesterday. Right.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 4: I don't know.
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 2: Obviously, like, these characters are not written out or thought about. They're, like, random. They're, like,
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: sentient trophies that wander the plot. But, like, yeah, because
• 1:03:02
  Speaker 2: it keeps happening, I was like, no, you guys go
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: to school together. How big is this school? Anyways.
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 5: There was a scene with the girls in the bathroom
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 5: that I– wanted to ask about because I genuinely don't
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 5: feel like I understood what I watched where the girls
• 1:03:16
  Speaker 5: are like, they come into the bathroom, the boys go
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 5: into the shower and there they make, they make, there's
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 5: like a kind of a cute scene where they make
• 1:03:22
  Speaker 5: the game plan of like, we're going to talk to
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 5: these girls, but we still like Lisa. And then they
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 5: look out of the shower and it's two completely different girls.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 4: Oh yes.
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 3: Here's my read of that scene.
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 3: I think it's implied that the boys have just been
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: in there so long, like in the shower deliberating and,
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 3: that the other girls have left and two new people
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: have come in. And, and the joke is that these
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: girls are gross and ugly simply because they're fat. And
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: so it's just like casual fat phobia.
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: Right. And they're also, and, and they're like wearing different,
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 2: like they're people who don't exist. Like they're a car,
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 2: a cartoonish, there's more caricatures.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: Of like, quote unquote, women were not attracted to, which
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: is like, Again, a John Hughes staple indeed.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 5: Fat phobic, also hacky, very hacky joke and like a
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 5: little muddled.
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 3: It's not even clear.
• 1:04:19
  Speaker 4: Confusing.
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: Especially because Lisa is a wizard and she is able
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: to change anything.
• 1:04:26
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 5: So I thought there was Lisa. When I first saw
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 5: that scene, I was like, oh, maybe Lisa turned them into, quote,
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 5: like the ugly girls because she wants to keep them
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 5: from connecting with these. When there's a wizard in the plot,
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 5: John Hughes, you got to be aware that stuff's going
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 5: to happen. And the audience is like, oh, this is
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 5: like wizard shit. And it's like, no, no, it's just
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 5: a confusing half-baked joke that doesn't really make sense.
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 2: For sure.
• 1:04:51
  Speaker 4: Oh, okay.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 3: Yeah, it's more bad writing.
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 2: It's confusing, yeah.
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 3: Anyway, so the boys are now interested in these girls,
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 3: Deb and Hilly. Meanwhile, Lisa is talking to Max and Ian,
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 3: the bullies, telling them that she belongs to Gary and
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 3: Wyatt and she does whatever they say. So Ian and
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: Max go to Gary and Wyatt and ask them if
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 3: they can borrow Lisa... And if they agree to that,
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 3: they will let Wyatt and Gary have their girlfriends, Deb
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: and Hilly, talking about these two girls as if they
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: are objects that can just be traded around.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: This is so wild. Like, yeah, we're truly like movie.
• 1:05:35
  Speaker 2: You don't need to even be like, they're acting as
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 2: if women are like, they're just saying they're just doing
• 1:05:41
  Speaker 2: women are property and whatever. This movie is never like,
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: because of the time it comes out, this movie can't
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: have the conversation of like, lisa is not a real
• 1:05:51
  Speaker 2: person but like so if we're to view lisa as
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: a woman which this movie does women are property and
• 1:05:56
  Speaker 2: let's trade these and consent is whatever um we do
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: get one interest again one of the like interesting like
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 2: huh what's that that goes away is because there's so
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: much in this like jocks versus nerds dynamic that John
• 1:06:15
  Speaker 2: Hughes also loves that is really entrenched in masculinity. And
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: women are always pawns in this exchange of like, you know,
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: you have to beat down on somebody you view as
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: less weak to prove your masculinity. And if you're how
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 2: women view each other. And we get one exchange that
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: if we're viewing Lisa as a woman, or I mean,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: these characters are perceiving Lisa as a woman, that they're
• 1:06:45
  Speaker 2: like talking about how they're both kind of threatened by her,
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 2: but they're also fascinated by her. And she's so glamorous
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 2: and she's so cool. And like, oh my God, whoa,
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 2: how can we compare to her?
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 3: Her British accent.
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 4: Her burps are charming even. Yeah.
• 1:06:58
  Speaker 2: And you're like, okay, it's very of its time, but
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 2: it's like, to be like, oh, that's unfortunately kind of
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 2: the most personality you see out of these two characters
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 2: is how they're kind of enchanted by this older woman.
• 1:07:12
  Speaker 2: But it doesn't go anywhere. So, nope.
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's the seed of the more interesting movie that
• 1:07:19
  Speaker 5: I think is in there somewhere. If John Hughes had
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 5: just given it another 24 hours, that might have come out.
• 1:07:25
  Speaker 4: But yeah, the way.
• 1:07:26
  Speaker 5: That these characters young girls see lisa they're like oh
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 5: she doesn't have a zit on her body like oh
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 5: my god they're threatened by her but also enchanted that
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 5: would be an interesting plot point of how does how
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 5: do the young women in this community and in this
• 1:07:40
  Speaker 5: school react to lisa not just the horny boys.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah yes but that is unfortunately not.
• 1:07:48
  Speaker 3: What the movie's about god damn it So the bullies
• 1:07:54
  Speaker 3: pitch this idea of like, if you let us have Lisa,
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: we'll let you guys have our girlfriends. But Gary and
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 3: Wyatt have a better idea. They're just going to make
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: a whole new woman for Max and Ian. So they
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: design another woman on the computer and they do the
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: same thing. ritual thing with the bras on their heads.
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 3: And all the weird science stuff happens again with the
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 3: sky turning red and a bunch of furniture goes flying
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 3: out of the house. The whole kitchen turns blue for
• 1:08:28
  Speaker 3: some reason. And they create something. But oh no, the
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 3: boys forgot to hook up a Barbie doll. And instead
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: the wires were laying on like a time magazine or
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: something with a nuclear warhead on the cover so they
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 3: accidentally create a giant missile that crashes through the middle
• 1:08:50
  Speaker 3: of the house and if you're wondering does this pay
• 1:08:53
  Speaker 3: off in any way are there any consequences here nope
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: none whatsoever yes.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 5: Again it's like a long sequence where the bully guys
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 5: are like we want her to have these kinds of
• 1:09:05
  Speaker 5: boobs and this and that and the sequence when the
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 5: weird science bit happens and the sky turns colors is
• 1:09:11
  Speaker 5: so long the furniture goes out the chimney and there's
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 5: There's a woman who is stripped.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: Naked and thrown into a lake for some reason.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 5: It's such an extended scene for this to just result
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 5: in a missile that later just disappears.
• 1:09:25
  Speaker 3: Has no payoff at all.
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 4: No, none.
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 2: And it's so expensive because you're like, it's practical. You
• 1:09:32
  Speaker 2: know it's practical. You're like, this is such an expensive
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: thing to not think all the way through. And throwing
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 2: a woman off the top of a building was... you know,
• 1:09:42
  Speaker 2: that was something. Well, thank you. No, I mean, Bridget,
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 2: going back to something you said a while back, that
• 1:09:49
  Speaker 2: was where I was like, cause she's a unnamed character
• 1:09:51
  Speaker 2: who is plot stripped by the wizarding strength of horny
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: men and then tossed off a building. We have no
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: idea who this character is. Not that I wanted this
• 1:10:01
  Speaker 2: to happen to Lisa, but when I saw her sitting
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: at a piano, I was like, wait, doesn't Lisa know Beethoven?
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: But instead we just invented a new character. Like, It
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 2: just is so, what the fuck is going on in
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: this movie? There's a few things that I'm just like,
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 2: men are so powerful because they can get a budget
• 1:10:20
  Speaker 2: for fucking anything. They can turn Bill Paxton into a
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: poo-poo monster and they don't even need to write a
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 2: script that makes sense to get a.
• 1:10:27
  Speaker 4: Poo-poo monster budget.
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: What the hell?
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 3: John Hughes was so preoccupied with whether or not he
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 3: could that he didn't stop to think if he should.
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: To quote Jurassic Park.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: And one of his other kind of main things, again,
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: that we like know that John Hughes is like equipped
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: to handle, but not doesn't seem to want to in
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 2: the scope of this movie is the idea of class
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 2: because we're in the. herbo up or we're dealing with
• 1:10:51
  Speaker 2: very privileged nerds this house it has like a fucking
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: moat um yeah yes.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 3: Um okay so the the nuclear missile appears and rather
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: than it having any consequences lisa comes in and is
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 3: just like when are you boys going to learn that
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 3: people are going to like you for who you are
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: not for what you can give them and we're like
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: okay is that the is that the theme of the
• 1:11:18
  Speaker 3: movie is that the less i don't what and then
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 3: there's the part where wyatt's grandparents decide to stop by
• 1:11:25
  Speaker 3: so lisa makes them catatonic and puts them in the
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 3: pantry and then lisa is like hmm i should do
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 3: something to boost the boy's confidence and Let them demonstrate
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 3: that they have strength and courage. So she summons a
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 3: Mad Max-style motorcycle gang that crashes the party, terrorizes everyone,
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 3: mocks Wyatt and Gary, who are hiding in the closet
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 3: for a little while, but then they... rise to the
• 1:11:58
  Speaker 3: occasion and face the motorcycle gang especially after they damsel
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 3: the girls that they like.
• 1:12:07
  Speaker 2: And then we're still like at the at this point
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 2: you're like what's happening what are these girls names right
• 1:12:12
  Speaker 2: um what's.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: One detail about these girls yeah.
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: And the the boys are still like hey i'm chet.
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 5: I'm carrie you've had both scenes with each other by this.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 2: Point they're like they're like i love you that's coming
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: soon but you're like no you don't you don't Whatever.
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 3: You've known them for two hours.
• 1:12:29
  Speaker 4: One plot question, and maybe this is unanswerable.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 5: Am I to understand that Lisa, like, genie conjured up
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 5: these Mad Max motorcycle mutants and that there is no
• 1:12:42
  Speaker 5: real danger that she has just sort of, like, created
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 5: this fake emergency for them to rise to the occasion
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 5: so that they can be confident and get the girls
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 5: to like them, but they are not in any real
• 1:12:54
  Speaker 5: danger because she's taking care of it.
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 4: Is that sort of the vibe? Yes.
• 1:12:58
  Speaker 2: I don't know. Because she sometimes, like, mutters to herself.
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: She does it after the stakes of the grandparents are,
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 2: after the grandparents are, like, frozen. She, like, says to herself,
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: I think the boys need a little challenge. And then
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 2: moments later, the motorcyclists show up. So I think that she's, like,
• 1:13:16
  Speaker 2: conjuring them. I don't know. I want to spend an
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 2: hour inside of Lisa's mind. Because I'm just, like, how
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 2: she gets from A to B is sometimes kind of
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 2: beyond me. I'm interested. Yeah. But what is going on?
• 1:13:30
  Speaker 2: What's going on? And I guess a real Mad Max
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: guy is in this sequence, right? I'm not a Mad
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 2: Max head, but I read it.
• 1:13:37
  Speaker 4: I think that's right.
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: It's true.
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 3: So the girls have been damseled by this motorcycle gang.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 3: So Gary pulls the gun that Lisa had earlier on
• 1:13:48
  Speaker 3: them and the gang leaves. But haha, it turns out
• 1:13:51
  Speaker 3: to be a real gun. this time because I guess
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 3: Lisa has the wizard powers to make a squirt gun
• 1:13:59
  Speaker 3: a real gun who knows but Deb and Hilly are
• 1:14:04
  Speaker 3: now like wow you boys are so strong and brave
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 3: so they just get together with the boys Wyatt goes
• 1:14:14
  Speaker 3: off with Hilly Gary goes off with Deb so the
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 3: brunettes together and the blondes together of course I know.
• 1:14:21
  Speaker 2: And I'm just like, if we're if we're doing something
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: this like obvious, can we at least swap hair colors?
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 2: It's looking sibling. It's looking very sibling to me.
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 3: It's creepy.
• 1:14:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 3: And at least one of the girls expresses feelings of
• 1:14:35
  Speaker 3: self-consciousness about the boys connection to Lisa. But the tune
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 3: has sort of changed here. And the boys are like, nah,
• 1:14:45
  Speaker 3: she's more of a sister to us.
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 5: Which is why you wanted to shower with her, why
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 5: she was grabbing your ass earlier.
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: Right, like why, yeah, that you've both had extensive sexual
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 2: contact with her.
• 1:14:56
  Speaker 3: Right, right, right, right, right. Right, right, right, right. So
• 1:14:59
  Speaker 3: then we cut to the next day. Chet comes home.
• 1:15:03
  Speaker 3: Who knows where he was, but he just disappears from
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 3: the plot from time to time. But he comes home
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 3: and he's yelling at everyone. He threatens to shoot Gary
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 3: and Deb with his shotgun or whatever. And Lisa is like,
• 1:15:18
  Speaker 3: don't worry, I'll handle this. So the boys leave with
• 1:15:23
  Speaker 3: their girlfriends and Lisa turns Chet into a like gooey
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 3: blob poop monster.
• 1:15:31
  Speaker 2: Kind of like a, is it an actual Henson prosthetic?
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: It looks like it. It could be.
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 3: It reminded me of Pizza the Hut from Spaceballs.
• 1:15:40
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what it was. I was trying to put
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 4: my finger on what it was. It's familiar. Yeah.
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but it's slimy and gross. And she does this
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 3: as punishment for Chet treating Wyatt and Gary so badly.
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 3: So Chet learns his lesson because I guess Lisa's job
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 3: is just to like teach boys the lessons.
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 2: And Well, and she also around this point confidently states
• 1:16:07
  Speaker 2: what I think the movie thinks its own thesis is,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 2: but makes no sense in any world. What are you
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: going to learn that people like you for what you
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 2: are and not for what you can give them? I'm like,
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: what about anything we've seen would suggest that these boys
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: are a likable or... Or like that message is like
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: not really present in the movie at all, but it
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: stated so confidently at the end because we need the
• 1:16:35
  Speaker 2: girls to end up with the boys and Lisa to
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: sort of be the fairy godmother stewarding all of this.
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 2: It's so confusing.
• 1:16:44
  Speaker 5: It's like that bit in The Simpsons.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 4: Lisa, the point of Moby Dick is be yourself. Right.
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 4: That's the moral we're going with after all of this.
• 1:16:53
  Speaker 4: That's where we've landed.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 5: OK.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 3: OK, movie.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 4: OK.
• 1:16:55
  Speaker 2: Whatever. Like, sure. But it was. Yeah, it's just such
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 2: a mess where I don't know, even the way that
• 1:17:03
  Speaker 2: Kelly LeBrock is delivering that line, like whatever. we all
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: know that's not what the message of the movie is.
• 1:17:08
  Speaker 2: The message of the movie is no one knows. It's
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: really unclear.
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 3: It's nothing. Well, cause the next thing that happens, we,
• 1:17:16
  Speaker 3: we cut to Gary and Wyatt are driving around their
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 3: new girlfriends in the various expensive sport cars that Lisa
• 1:17:25
  Speaker 3: has conjured out of thin air. There's a random car
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 3: chase for no fucking reason. But then with all of
• 1:17:32
  Speaker 3: the confidence that Lisa has given them, The boys give
• 1:17:37
  Speaker 3: their girlfriends a smooch. And then Gary admits that he's
• 1:17:41
  Speaker 3: not even cool, but he wants Deb to like him
• 1:17:44
  Speaker 3: for who he is. And she's like, don't worry, I do.
• 1:17:48
  Speaker 3: Which would be a good message if he wasn't also
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 3: a despicable misogynist piece of shit.
• 1:17:55
  Speaker 2: A despicable misogynist.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:17:58
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: It is just like nonsense. Yes. And then.
• 1:18:02
  Speaker 3: Gary and Wyatt come back to Wyatt's house and approach
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 3: Lisa to be like, hey, we got to talk. And
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 3: she's like, oh, you guys found girlfriends. Don't worry. That's
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 3: all I ever wanted for you. I'm so happy you
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 3: guys learned all these lessons. And she's like crying. And
• 1:18:22
  Speaker 3: then she's just like, okay, got to go.
• 1:18:24
  Speaker 2: She leaves.
• 1:18:25
  Speaker 3: And it seems like she kind of disappeared from whence
• 1:18:28
  Speaker 3: she came. And then the house transforms back to normal.
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 3: The nuclear missile disappears. Everything returns to the way it
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 3: was just in time for Wyatt's parents to arrive back home.
• 1:18:42
  Speaker 3: And the boys are like, haha, no, we didn't get
• 1:18:45
  Speaker 3: into anything wacky this weekend. It was a very normal
• 1:18:48
  Speaker 3: time for us. And then the button on the movie
• 1:18:51
  Speaker 3: is we cut to the school. Lisa has not disappeared.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 3: She's there and she's a gym teacher now. And all
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 3: the boys, all the teen boys are ogling at her.
• 1:19:00
  Speaker 4: They all faint. They're so surprised.
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 5: It's a hot gym teacher in a hot gym teacher's outfit.
• 1:19:07
  Speaker 2: It's simply so confusing. Yeah.
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 3: So that's the end of the movie. Let's take another
• 1:19:12
  Speaker 3: quick break and then we'll come back to discuss.
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: And we're back.
• 1:19:27
  Speaker 3: Bridget, we've talked a lot already about many things, but
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 3: What next? What would you like to dive into next?
• 1:19:34
  Speaker 5: You know, this is going to be a weird comparison,
• 1:19:37
  Speaker 5: but it almost kind of reminds me of a lot
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 5: of Judd Apatow movies where you've got the stoner guy
• 1:19:43
  Speaker 5: and the way that the audience is meant to understand
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 5: that he has gotten himself sorted out is he gets
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 5: a girlfriend or maybe a job or an apartment. And
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 5: in this movie, the way that Lisa can feel like
• 1:19:56
  Speaker 5: these guys are confident and have got themselves sorted out
• 1:19:59
  Speaker 5: is that they're able to get these these girlfriends, like
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 5: that's the only marker of some sort of character development
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 5: for them is like whether or not they're able to
• 1:20:09
  Speaker 5: express themselves to these, these young women.
• 1:20:11
  Speaker 4: Yeah. Right.
• 1:20:13
  Speaker 3: Which like, yeah, it's sort of, it feels like kind
• 1:20:17
  Speaker 3: of the cousin of like women are the prize to
• 1:20:21
  Speaker 3: be won after being men have learned their lesson or
• 1:20:26
  Speaker 3: defeated the big bad or whatever well i feel like.
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: The plot only really works if we as an audience
• 1:20:34
  Speaker 2: believe i think what like at least my like cultural
• 1:20:37
  Speaker 2: osmosis takeaway about weird science prior to watching it was
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: that this is a movie about nerdy male entitlement. And
• 1:20:48
  Speaker 2: it's like one of the big movies about nerdy male entitlement,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: which feels very in conversation with a lot of early
• 1:20:53
  Speaker 2: Judd Apatow speaking to your point, Bridget. Like if you
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 2: don't believe at a fundamental level that these boys, regardless
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: of how they behave, are socially entitled to have sexual
• 1:21:06
  Speaker 2: access to the women in the story, then none of
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: the story makes any sense. And a lot of it
• 1:21:12
  Speaker 2: doesn't make sense anyways, but I feel like that is
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: like the foundational... understanding that the movie assumes that you
• 1:21:18
  Speaker 2: have is like so these guys are dorks and they
• 1:21:21
  Speaker 2: are bullied by mostly other boys at their school therefore
• 1:21:25
  Speaker 2: they are owed sexual attention by women and like that
• 1:21:31
  Speaker 2: I don't know I mean I think that's like one
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 2: of the big things that this movie just like it
• 1:21:34
  Speaker 2: doesn't even like that that's sort of established in the
• 1:21:37
  Speaker 2: opening sequence where they're bullied while they're fantasizing about having
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: sexual access to girls that they don't know and the
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: rest of the movie is about they create a sexy
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: wizard to give them what the wizard believes and what
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: they believe is their God-given right, which is to have
• 1:21:57
  Speaker 2: sexual access to girls. And without, I don't know, I
• 1:22:01
  Speaker 2: feel like without that logic, this story truly makes no sense.
• 1:22:06
  Speaker 5: And that's the foundation, not to keep bringing it back
• 1:22:09
  Speaker 5: to tech, but that's the foundation of so much of
• 1:22:11
  Speaker 5: our literal current tech landscape is, entitled men who feel
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 5: kind of like marginalized and oppressed because they're nerdy or
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 5: whatever perceived thing, feeling like they need to use technology
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 5: to build a world where they have access to the
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 5: commodity that is women, women's attentions, women's bodies, and women's
• 1:22:33
  Speaker 5: sexual selves. You know, in this movie, I do think
• 1:22:36
  Speaker 5: they make a one-to-one thing where in the beginning of
• 1:22:39
  Speaker 5: the movie, when they're watching these girls do gymnastics in
• 1:22:42
  Speaker 5: their class, They're talking about how in their fantasy, they
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 5: don't just have like hot babes. They also are really popular.
• 1:22:49
  Speaker 5: They're also like ladies' men. And how women and feeling
• 1:22:53
  Speaker 5: entitled to the commodity that they see women as, that
• 1:22:57
  Speaker 5: also comes along with a kind of lifestyle where they
• 1:22:59
  Speaker 5: are in power. They are on top of the, you know,
• 1:23:03
  Speaker 5: they're the top guys in the social stratus of their school.
• 1:23:07
  Speaker 4: It just.
• 1:23:08
  Speaker 5: It really comes down to women and girls as this
• 1:23:11
  Speaker 5: commodity and using technology to build a world where that
• 1:23:14
  Speaker 5: is what's going on.
• 1:23:17
  Speaker 3: Which the movie and movies like it, such as Revenge
• 1:23:21
  Speaker 3: of the Nerds, utterly fails to acknowledge because, as we've
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 3: talked about many times before, both these nerd boys and
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 3: the jock bullies are vehement misogynists. but the movie frames
• 1:23:39
  Speaker 3: the misogyny of the boys. Well, it doesn't even, it's,
• 1:23:42
  Speaker 3: you're not even supposed to notice it. And if you do, well,
• 1:23:45
  Speaker 3: it's endearing actually. It's not the evil misogyny that the
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 3: jocks are doing.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:23:50
  Speaker 3: It's the cute misogyny that the nerds are doing.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 1:23:54
  Speaker 2: It's like they're made out to seem harmless in a
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: way that we're also seeing in the same scene is
• 1:23:59
  Speaker 2: just actively untrue. And I think that like all, you know,
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: unsafe presentations of masculinity are harmful, but I think we
• 1:24:07
  Speaker 2: can see, and I hope I'm not overstating this, hashtag
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 2: not all men. However, I feel like we really see
• 1:24:15
  Speaker 2: the legacy that you were, I mean, going back to
• 1:24:17
  Speaker 2: what you were talking about at the beginning of the episode, Bridget,
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: in the attitudes that a lot of men in tech
• 1:24:23
  Speaker 2: have are reflected by, I think are influenced by the
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: entitlement of that this subgenre of movie encourages. You are
• 1:24:32
  Speaker 2: owed something. You have been cheated by the world. And
• 1:24:36
  Speaker 2: I think what that creates that often results in cultural,
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: if not direct violence towards women is like, how dare
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 2: you not give me the attention and the relationship that
• 1:24:47
  Speaker 2: I deserve? And then, you know, there's I think in
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 2: the case of the AI cohort, it's like, I'll just
• 1:24:54
  Speaker 2: make my own woman. Fuck you. Or, you know, as
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 2: the case may be, like, I'm going to punish you physically, emotionally, whatever,
• 1:25:02
  Speaker 2: because I didn't get what I was promised. And what
• 1:25:06
  Speaker 2: was promised to you was not promised by women. It
• 1:25:08
  Speaker 2: was promised by patriarchy.
• 1:25:11
  Speaker 5: And when you look at some of the marketing language
• 1:25:14
  Speaker 5: around consumer AI products that are AI girlfriends or AI
• 1:25:18
  Speaker 5: companions that are specifically designed for erotic role play and
• 1:25:23
  Speaker 5: adult content and explicit content, in the marketing, that very
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 5: attitude is almost made explicit. They'll use slogans like, oh...
• 1:25:32
  Speaker 5: download this AI girlfriend, she'll never say no. Download this
• 1:25:36
  Speaker 5: AI girlfriend, she'll give you what your human girlfriend won't give.
• 1:25:40
  Speaker 5: This idea that it's all for the taking because it's
• 1:25:44
  Speaker 5: yours anyway. There's a point in the movie, I wrote
• 1:25:47
  Speaker 5: down the quote where they say something along the lines of,
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 5: she's ours and yet we can't get close to her.
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 5: And I feel like that kind of, at least to me,
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 5: kind of sums something up that they're like, she's supposed
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 5: to be ours and yet.
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 4: you know, fill in the blank.
• 1:26:03
  Speaker 3: They made her too smart. They gave her Einstein-level intelligence,
• 1:26:08
  Speaker 3: so now she has autonomy, question mark?
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: Which is something that they, like, addressed directly in, like,
• 1:26:14
  Speaker 2: a movie like Companion, you know, like, 40 years later. But, yeah, like,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: it's the idea of, like, entitlement and control. And that once...
• 1:26:25
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think part of what makes Lisa's fate
• 1:26:28
  Speaker 2: so kind of chilling is because... They get what they
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: feel they deserve, which is the relationships with the girls
• 1:26:37
  Speaker 2: that I think are so poorly written and so not
• 1:26:41
  Speaker 2: considered in terms of if this person were real, what
• 1:26:45
  Speaker 2: would they be feeling? Because I think that the girls
• 1:26:49
  Speaker 2: have also kind of been bullying them and passively watching
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 2: as they're aggressively bullied by their boyfriends. So in a
• 1:26:55
  Speaker 2: world where these characters are people, they actually kind of
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 2: have a little bit to answer for. and so do
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 2: the boys but like because their prizes and objects their
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: function is to be turned over right to the nerds
• 1:27:08
  Speaker 2: but that like Lisa at the end I think why
• 1:27:10
  Speaker 2: she ends up in this like weird gym teacher gag
• 1:27:13
  Speaker 2: is because she's outlived her function and they're like well
• 1:27:16
  Speaker 2: we got what we deserved so how do we talk
• 1:27:19
  Speaker 2: to you about the fact that we're discarding you we
• 1:27:22
  Speaker 2: don't like there's no question of like what do you want.
• 1:27:25
  Speaker 5: I mean they don't even have to have the painful
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 5: breakup They don't even have to say like, listen, we've
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 5: got girlfriends now.
• 1:27:33
  Speaker 4: We got what we feel we were entitled to. It's
• 1:27:36
  Speaker 4: not you. It's us. She just knows.
• 1:27:39
  Speaker 5: She just says, oh, I'm no longer needed here. I guess,
• 1:27:42
  Speaker 5: you know, it's like the end of a movie with
• 1:27:44
  Speaker 5: a nanny where it's like, you kids don't need me anymore.
• 1:27:47
  Speaker 5: You know, she just is, I guess, designed to be
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 5: such that she never, it's like they never owe her anything.
• 1:27:53
  Speaker 5: She has no needs of her own that they don't
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 5: even have.
• 1:27:56
  Speaker 4: To say, we no longer need you. You've outlived your usefulness.
• 1:28:00
  Speaker 4: Please go become a gym teacher now.
• 1:28:02
  Speaker 2: And then they seem to be relieved that she, and
• 1:28:05
  Speaker 2: that's it. That's it. Not to mention the way that
• 1:28:08
  Speaker 2: the things end with the girls. I mean, it's like,
• 1:28:10
  Speaker 2: I don't even know how to talk about the human
• 1:28:12
  Speaker 2: girls in this story because it just makes no fucking sense.
• 1:28:14
  Speaker 2: Where he says, I love you. I'm like, I didn't
• 1:28:16
  Speaker 2: even know what this character's name was until 10 minutes ago.
• 1:28:19
  Speaker 2: What do you mean, I love you? Get a fucking grip.
• 1:28:23
  Speaker 3: Like, they've been interacting for all of... 12 hours.
• 1:28:27
  Speaker 2: And then on the other side, with Anthony Michael Hall
• 1:28:30
  Speaker 2: dating a girl that looks like his sister, where he,
• 1:28:33
  Speaker 2: you know, he's like, I need to come clean. Like,
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: this is supposed to be the big arc, right? Even
• 1:28:38
  Speaker 2: though nothing about this story has indicated that he, his
• 1:28:42
  Speaker 2: problem is that he can't be accepted authentically. Like, what
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: the fuck are you talking about? But he's like, just
• 1:28:48
  Speaker 2: so you know, all that stuff, it's not real, except
• 1:28:51
  Speaker 2: the fact that he seems to be fabulously wealthy, which
• 1:28:53
  Speaker 2: is real.
• 1:28:54
  Speaker 3: But I don't have my own Ferrari. The one I'm
• 1:28:56
  Speaker 3: driving around is fake. Do you still like me? And
• 1:28:59
  Speaker 3: she's like, yes, of course I do.
• 1:29:01
  Speaker 2: I like you for you. And I'm like, you don't
• 1:29:03
  Speaker 2: know him. You don't know him.
• 1:29:05
  Speaker 3: And if you did, you would know that he's a
• 1:29:06
  Speaker 3: piece of shit.
• 1:29:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: They're both kind of.
• 1:29:10
  Speaker 3: They're horrible. No, they're absolutely horrible.
• 1:29:12
  Speaker 5: And I guess I just don't understand, nor do I
• 1:29:15
  Speaker 5: agree with this idea that they seem to be uncritically
• 1:29:18
  Speaker 5: presenting toward the end of the movie, that the movie
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 5: is about the boys learning that they don't need material
• 1:29:24
  Speaker 5: trappings to get people to like them.
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 4: That seems to come out of nowhere.
• 1:29:28
  Speaker 5: That does not seem to be a point of the
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 5: movie that is established or even hinted at until the end.
• 1:29:34
  Speaker 3: Like everything else in this movie, it's random as hell.
• 1:29:36
  Speaker 2: Well, and it's like, in and again, we know that
• 1:29:38
  Speaker 2: John Hughes can tell or has told class stories, but
• 1:29:44
  Speaker 2: like to suggest that material has anything to do, like
• 1:29:47
  Speaker 2: he is like intentionally set this story. I think like
• 1:29:50
  Speaker 2: a lot of teen hijinks comedies in a wealthy setting
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: so that you can do these big expensive set pieces.
• 1:29:57
  Speaker 2: So to add in like a little flourish like that
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: at the end, like it just doesn't make sense with
• 1:30:01
  Speaker 2: anything we've seen because yeah, maybe he doesn't have a Ferrari,
• 1:30:04
  Speaker 2: but he probably could. We have no reason to think
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: he couldn't have one. But then we're also told his
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: father was a plumber and I'm like, Do plumbers live
• 1:30:11
  Speaker 2: in mansions in the 80s? I don't know.
• 1:30:13
  Speaker 3: Oh, well, I guess we don't see much of Gary's house.
• 1:30:16
  Speaker 3: But Wyatt's house is the one that we spend most
• 1:30:18
  Speaker 3: of the movie in. And that is for sure a mansion.
• 1:30:21
  Speaker 2: Sure.
• 1:30:22
  Speaker 3: But class isn't a thing that even crosses this movie's mind.
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: No.
• 1:30:27
  Speaker 5: I will say one bit about having done the research
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 5: for my audio book, Love at First Prompt, about how
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 5: people are using AI companions for intimacy and sex. One
• 1:30:37
  Speaker 5: thing that I think the movie gets right is that
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 5: one of the questions I get asked a lot is,
• 1:30:42
  Speaker 5: are you worried that people are going to be replacing
• 1:30:45
  Speaker 5: their human relationships and human connections with AI? And I'm
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 5: not worried about that for lots of reasons. I guess
• 1:30:51
  Speaker 5: the biggest one is that I just don't ultimately think
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 5: that humans can be replaced by technology, human labor, human intimacy,
• 1:30:58
  Speaker 5: human relationships or connections writ large. But also what we
• 1:31:03
  Speaker 5: actually see from the research is that oftentimes people who
• 1:31:07
  Speaker 5: experience intimacy with AI, they're doing so in service of
• 1:31:11
  Speaker 5: being brought closer to other humans in their lives. And
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 5: so if you look at subreddits like Beyond the Prompt
• 1:31:16
  Speaker 5: or My Boyfriend is AI, it's those are humans who
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 5: feel that they are in an intimate relationship with AI,
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 5: and they're going onto Reddit to talk to other humans
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 5: and connect with other humans about that intimacy with AI.
• 1:31:28
  Speaker 5: And so something that I did like about the movie
• 1:31:31
  Speaker 5: is that, you know, Lisa does not become their girlfriend, ultimately,
• 1:31:37
  Speaker 5: whatever Lisa is brings them in deeper connection with like others.
• 1:31:41
  Speaker 5: They're human peers. You know, I think there's a version
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 5: of this movie where they just team up with Lisa and,
• 1:31:47
  Speaker 5: you know, that's that. I like that it's ultimately, they're
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 5: not relying on Lisa as like a substitute for human
• 1:31:54
  Speaker 5: to human connection with the women in their class.
• 1:31:58
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I was thinking about that. And I think all
• 1:32:01
  Speaker 3: of the movies that we've discussed on the podcast that
• 1:32:03
  Speaker 3: deal to some degree with people having an intimate connection
• 1:32:08
  Speaker 3: with AI or a fembot or something like that, it
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 3: never goes well for anyone involved. Like the relationship is
• 1:32:18
  Speaker 3: utterly unsustainable. And sometimes the men die at the end.
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 3: Sometimes the men realize, oh, I should be focusing on
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 3: the human girls in my life. So there are various outcomes,
• 1:32:33
  Speaker 3: which we were already talking about as far as like
• 1:32:35
  Speaker 3: the good for her endings versus whatever this movie does.
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 3: But the bottom line is, if any of these movies
• 1:32:42
  Speaker 3: get something right, it's that like, yeah, these relationships are
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 3: not sustainable.
• 1:32:49
  Speaker 2: Certainly not. Yeah, that's so interesting to hear, Bridget, because
• 1:32:52
  Speaker 2: it's like that does seem to be sort of encoded
• 1:32:55
  Speaker 2: into all of these movies. And it sounds like in
• 1:32:58
  Speaker 2: these forums, they're like, but my relationship with an AI
• 1:33:03
  Speaker 2: is going to be the one to defy the odds.
• 1:33:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a good way to put it. And I think,
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 5: you know, I just wish this movie was better. I
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 5: really feel like there was a better movie that kind
• 1:33:16
  Speaker 5: of teases out some of that complexity.
• 1:33:19
  Speaker 4: Somewhere buried in this script.
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 3: But unfortunately, that's not the case. And then there are
• 1:33:28
  Speaker 3: all these other problems with the movie, such as the
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 3: casual racism, the casual homophobia, you know, the casual ableism.
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 3: I wanted to talk briefly about one of the Mad
• 1:33:41
  Speaker 3: Max gang members. You never hear this character's name on
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 3: screen because I don't think they like They're not introducing
• 1:33:49
  Speaker 3: themselves as they're crashing the party. But one of the
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 3: characters is credited as Mutant Biker. He is played by
• 1:33:56
  Speaker 3: an actor named Michael Berryman, who was born with a
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 3: condition called hypohydratic ectodermal dysplasia. I recognize him from other things.
• 1:34:08
  Speaker 3: He has worked a lot, and he has a bunch
• 1:34:10
  Speaker 3: of film and TV credits. Unfortunately, a large number of
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 3: his roles were him playing some type of quote-unquote mutant
• 1:34:19
  Speaker 3: character or a creature or something like that. He's still
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 3: alive and still working in Hollywood. But yeah, for that
• 1:34:28
  Speaker 3: to be his character's name and the way that character
• 1:34:31
  Speaker 3: is framed by the story, although he says one of
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 3: the very few things in this entire movie that made
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 3: me laugh as he's leaving, as like the two boys
• 1:34:41
  Speaker 3: best this motorcycle gang and they've admitted defeat and so
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 3: they're leaving the house. That character says, don't tell anyone
• 1:34:50
  Speaker 3: about this. I could lose my teaching job.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 5: I actually laughed. That got a laugh out of me.
• 1:34:57
  Speaker 5: That scene when the bikers are retreating, call me, we'll
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 5: do lunch. That was actually the scene that actually made
• 1:35:04
  Speaker 5: me genuinely laugh.
• 1:35:06
  Speaker 3: But all this to say, there are all these just,
• 1:35:09
  Speaker 3: I mean, the whole scene with, we already touched on it,
• 1:35:12
  Speaker 3: but Wyatt doing the black scent and just like all
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 3: of the racist caricatures that are present in that scene.
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 3: I feel like.
• 1:35:22
  Speaker 5: I haven't seen a ton of John Hughes movies. My
• 1:35:25
  Speaker 5: understanding is they all take place in Chicago. And I
• 1:35:28
  Speaker 5: do think that there is like a thing where, you know,
• 1:35:31
  Speaker 5: if you were in a suburb of Illinois or a
• 1:35:34
  Speaker 5: suburb of Chicago, the idea that just outside of the
• 1:35:38
  Speaker 5: suburbs is the city and there's black people there and
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 5: it's very urban. A lot of movies in the 80s,
• 1:35:43
  Speaker 5: I feel like, had some scene where kids from the
• 1:35:47
  Speaker 5: burbs go into the city and.
• 1:35:49
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah adventures in babysitting also does this yes.
• 1:35:52
  Speaker 5: Yes exactly don't they end up singing in a in
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 5: a in a blues club in that movie as well
• 1:35:57
  Speaker 5: it's like a thing yeah.
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 2: It's oh it's a mess um yeah this is i
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 2: mean this is like such a period of and and
• 1:36:04
  Speaker 2: this continues but i think i i associate it strongly
• 1:36:07
  Speaker 2: with the 80s and 90s i'm just like the middle
• 1:36:10
  Speaker 2: class or above white teenage perspective is we're told like
• 1:36:14
  Speaker 2: the perspective and usually it's like men. Sometimes it's a
• 1:36:19
  Speaker 2: white woman or like a white girl. Like rarely are
• 1:36:23
  Speaker 2: we looking outside of this and that the way that
• 1:36:25
  Speaker 2: we look at the world and anyone who is not
• 1:36:29
  Speaker 2: middle class and white is through this other lens. For sure. Yeah.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 3: Looking through my notes to see what else there is.
• 1:36:39
  Speaker 2: I just, I bet. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm good
• 1:36:43
  Speaker 2: to call it. It's fucking hot.
• 1:36:45
  Speaker 3: It's hot. And there's just so much. Um, well, uh,
• 1:36:49
  Speaker 3: this movie does pass the Bechdel test.
• 1:36:52
  Speaker 4: Weirdly. It does.
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: Weirdly. It does.
• 1:36:56
  Speaker 4: Does that make it a feminist tax?
• 1:36:57
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 5: It's a feminist masterpiece.
• 1:37:01
  Speaker 2: No, it's kind of, it's kind of an offhand pass.
• 1:37:04
  Speaker 2: It isn't that like kind of, we talked about it.
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: It's kind of intriguing. Um, Where the girls are talking
• 1:37:10
  Speaker 2: about Lisa and how they're like fascinated by Lisa conceptually.
• 1:37:15
  Speaker 2: And I guess that that is predicated on the idea
• 1:37:17
  Speaker 2: that we believe Lisa is a woman and not a
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: robot type character. But For the sake of the way
• 1:37:25
  Speaker 2: this movie views Lisa, I would say that that's a pass.
• 1:37:28
  Speaker 2: And an interesting one at that, but it doesn't go anywhere.
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: So it's not a feminist movie, obviously.
• 1:37:34
  Speaker 3: Right. Well, I guess if I had one last point,
• 1:37:36
  Speaker 3: and I'll make it quick because it is truly broiling outside.
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 3: I was like, what the hell is going on with Lisa?
• 1:37:43
  Speaker 3: From a characterization, sitting down to write a screenplay and
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 3: develop a character point of view, what is this? She's inconsistent.
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 3: nothing she does or says makes sense but then i
• 1:37:57
  Speaker 3: was like well maybe that's the point because she's such
• 1:38:00
  Speaker 3: an amalgamation of a bunch of just random shit that
• 1:38:03
  Speaker 3: these boys like feed into a computer which is again
• 1:38:08
  Speaker 3: like disembodied breasts and legs from playboy magazines it's a
• 1:38:14
  Speaker 3: photo of albert einstein it's An image of Harry Houdini
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 3: for some reason.
• 1:38:19
  Speaker 4: Wait, is that why she knows how to conjure things?
• 1:38:22
  Speaker 3: I guess maybe that's why she's a wizard.
• 1:38:24
  Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't even think of that.
• 1:38:25
  Speaker 3: Houdini was a magician, not a wizard.
• 1:38:28
  Speaker 2: Right. I don't know.
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 4: He wasn't supernatural.
• 1:38:32
  Speaker 3: Right, exactly. So I'm just like, well, maybe that's the point.
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 3: That's maybe why she's such an all over the place
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 3: character because she's just this like weirdo, like amalgamation of
• 1:38:42
  Speaker 3: so many things. But then that doesn't lend itself to
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 3: an interesting or good movie character. So it's still bad writing.
• 1:38:51
  Speaker 3: But yeah, it's a mess. The girls do talk about her, though.
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 3: So it passes the Bechdel test. But we've got the
• 1:38:59
  Speaker 3: Bechdel cast nipple scale to think about. A scale where
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 3: we rate the movie zero to five nipples based on
• 1:39:07
  Speaker 3: examining it through an intersectional feminist lens. I'm going to
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 3: go zero nipples on this one. for all the reasons
• 1:39:14
  Speaker 3: that we've already talked about. I think there's kind of
• 1:39:17
  Speaker 3: nothing redeeming about this movie. And anything that might be
• 1:39:20
  Speaker 3: kind of redeeming is just overshadowed by all of the
• 1:39:23
  Speaker 3: other horrible stuff. I'm going to give it a half.
• 1:39:28
  Speaker 2: Because I think that Lisa has interesting aspects to her
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: character that are all ignored and But I was intrigued
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: and I guess I enjoyed the performance. But like the writing,
• 1:39:45
  Speaker 2: everything that men had to do was kind of a disaster.
• 1:39:49
  Speaker 2: But I think that there were a lot of missed
• 1:39:51
  Speaker 2: opportunities with Lisa and I felt the potential. That's fair.
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: But do not mistake this for a desire for a
• 1:39:58
  Speaker 2: reboot of any kind. Please let it die.
• 1:40:01
  Speaker 3: Well, there have been talks about either remakes of this
• 1:40:04
  Speaker 3: movie or a sequel that would star Channing Tatum.
• 1:40:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but that was like 10 years ago.
• 1:40:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was ages ago.
• 1:40:11
  Speaker 4: What part would he even play?
• 1:40:13
  Speaker 5: Yeah, would that have been like a gender flipped, like
• 1:40:15
  Speaker 5: Channing Tatum is the genie?
• 1:40:17
  Speaker 2: That sounds awful.
• 1:40:20
  Speaker 3: I bet.
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: I would watch a Channing Tatum genie movie.
• 1:40:24
  Speaker 4: Oh, watch that.
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 3: Well, that is when they kept, like that era was
• 1:40:28
  Speaker 3: when they were gender flipping all those movies. Like what
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 3: men want instead of what women want and all of
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 3: those other terrible movies like it. So Jamie, you're giving
• 1:40:39
  Speaker 3: it a half nipple.
• 1:40:40
  Speaker 2: A half nipple. And I'll give it to Lisa.
• 1:40:43
  Speaker 3: Bridget, how about you?
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 4: I'm going to give it one nipple.
• 1:40:46
  Speaker 5: Although I will say, talking through this movie, I liked
• 1:40:50
  Speaker 5: it a lot less than I... When I finished it,
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 5: I was like, oh, that wasn't half bad. Talking through it,
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 5: I'm like, yeah, no.
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 3: We have that effect.
• 1:40:58
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 1:40:59
  Speaker 5: My one nipple goes to the one unsung hero of
• 1:41:01
  Speaker 5: the movie, In the mall scene when Lisa walks by
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 5: and all the teenage boys are like, whoa, she's so hot.
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 5: There's one lone new wave lesbian who also gives her
• 1:41:13
  Speaker 5: the eye and I love that character. My one nipple
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 5: goes out to that one lone 80s new wave lesbian
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 5: who checks out Lisa because I thought that was a
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 5: cool character.
• 1:41:22
  Speaker 2: Hell yeah.
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 4: Even though she doesn't speak.
• 1:41:24
  Speaker 2: God bless.
• 1:41:25
  Speaker 3: Well, is she the one who flicks her cigarette in
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 3: Lisa's direction?
• 1:41:28
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 1:41:29
  Speaker 3: I almost interpreted that as like, who's this woman? bitch
• 1:41:32
  Speaker 3: who thinks she's so hot flick of the cigarette.
• 1:41:36
  Speaker 5: Maybe I'm projecting like queer desire where there is none
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 5: I was like.
• 1:41:40
  Speaker 3: I mean I like that read a lot better so
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 3: let's go.
• 1:41:44
  Speaker 5: With that otherwise I'd have to remove my one nipple
• 1:41:46
  Speaker 5: and have to go down to zero.
• 1:41:48
  Speaker 3: Let's keep it well Bridget thank you so much for
• 1:41:52
  Speaker 3: joining us once again come back anytime.
• 1:41:54
  Speaker 5: Oh this was a blast and a half thank y'all
• 1:41:56
  Speaker 5: so much.
• 1:41:57
  Speaker 3: Tell people where they can find your audiobook plug anything
• 1:42:01
  Speaker 3: else you want to plug.
• 1:42:02
  Speaker 5: Yeah, if you are interested in conversations about what drives
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 5: humans to be interested in intimacy with robots like AI,
• 1:42:11
  Speaker 5: please check out my audio book, Love at First Prompt,
• 1:42:14
  Speaker 5: AI and the Future of Intimacy. You can check it
• 1:42:15
  Speaker 5: out at loveatfirstprompt.com.
• 1:42:18
  Speaker 2: Amazing.
• 1:42:19
  Speaker 3: You can check us out on Instagram at Bechtelcast. You
• 1:42:22
  Speaker 3: can also subscribe to our Patreon, aka Matreon. Best way
• 1:42:27
  Speaker 3: to support the show. We alluded to a bunch of
• 1:42:30
  Speaker 3: other episodes that we've covered on similar movies. So I'm
• 1:42:36
  Speaker 3: trying to think if any of those are on the
• 1:42:37
  Speaker 3: Matron specifically or if they're all main feed ones.
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: They're all over the place. Yeah. We've talked about it
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 2: extensively and I'm so glad that we covered this with you, Bridget.
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 2: I feel like you've given us so much to chew
• 1:42:48
  Speaker 2: on and I'm so excited to listen to your book. Congratulations.
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much. That means a lot coming from y'all.
• 1:42:55
  Speaker 2: Absolutely.
• 1:42:57
  Speaker 3: And with that, Wow, now we're sexy gym teachers. Drop
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 3: and give me 20.
• 1:43:02
  Speaker 2: Wow. Bye. Bye. The Bechdelcast is a production of iHeartMedia,
• 1:43:12
  Speaker 2: hosted and produced by me, Jamie Loftus.
• 1:43:15
  Speaker 3: And me, Caitlin Durante. The podcast is also produced by
• 1:43:18
  Speaker 3: Sophie Lichterman.
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: And edited by Caitlin Durante. Ever heard of them?
• 1:43:23
  Speaker 3: That's me. And our logo and merch and all of
• 1:43:26
  Speaker 3: our artwork, in fact, are designed by Jamie Loftus. Ever
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 3: heard of her?
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, my God. And our theme song, by the way,
• 1:43:34
  Speaker 2: was composed by Mike Kaplan.
• 1:43:35
  Speaker 3: With vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski.
• 1:43:38
  Speaker 2: Iconic. And a special thanks to the one and only
• 1:43:41
  Speaker 2: Aristotle Acevedo.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 3: For more information about the podcast, please visit linktree.com.