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TABLE TALK: The Phillies Postmortem And A Look To The Offseason · The Philadelphia Sports Table | Philly Sports News & Views

0:00
Speaker 1: What's up, everybody. It's Jeff here. I wanted to let
0:02
Speaker 1: you know our Table Talk interview this week was recorded
0:05
Speaker 1: on Monday, October fourteenth, twenty twenty four. By the time
0:08
Speaker 1: you hear this, some things may have changed here there,
0:10
Speaker 1: but we hope you enjoy the show. Welcome to Table
0:34
Speaker 1: Talk here at the Philadelphia Sports Table podcast show, the
0:37
Speaker 1: longest running weekly Philly sports podcast show in the world,
0:40
Speaker 1: eleven and a half year strong, and we got a
0:43
Speaker 1: great discussion coming your way. I should actually say we
0:45
Speaker 1: have a great guest coming your way this week. I
0:49
Speaker 1: absolutely love talking to our good friend of this podcast,
0:52
Speaker 1: John Staaling. This from the Hitting Season podcast and the
0:55
Speaker 1: Good Fight dot Com. But we're gonna be talking about
0:58
Speaker 1: this Philadelphia Phillies team. We're gonna be talking about the
1:02
Speaker 1: loss of the divisional round and the divisional series against
1:05
Speaker 1: the New York Mets. Where did this team go now?
1:08
Speaker 1: Where does this team go now? When they had an
1:12
Speaker 1: incredible roster, an incredible regular season, we were all hyped,
1:17
Speaker 1: we were all pumped, and in the end got a
1:19
Speaker 1: whole lot of nothing. So let's get to the conversation
1:22
Speaker 1: with John right now. I know it's gonna be a
1:24
Speaker 1: great one joining us of the show this week here
1:27
Speaker 1: on our table talk interview show is a gentleman we
1:30
Speaker 1: love having on the pod to getting to this Phillies team,
1:33
Speaker 1: what we saw during the course of the divisional series,
1:35
Speaker 1: and what's gonna happen to this Phillies team during the offseason.
1:39
Speaker 1: We have from the Hitting Season podcast over at Billy
1:41
Speaker 1: PENNWHYY and also the Good Fight dot Com. Somehow Aloys
1:47
Speaker 1: forgot about the Goodfight dot Com. I'm always hearing he
1:50
Speaker 1: and his co hosts in my ears and Hitting Season podcast.
1:54
Speaker 1: We got John Stall in this Buddy, my friend, how
1:56
Speaker 1: are you hey? You feeling I'm feeling all right. I'm
1:59
Speaker 1: feeling all right, Dobby. It's a little bit sad the
2:01
Speaker 1: Phillies aren't still playing. Just wanted to.
2:03
Speaker 2: I wanted to kind of, you know, storyboard something by
2:06
Speaker 2: you real quick. You know, I'm thinking about changing the
2:08
Speaker 2: name of the podcast. Cool, what do you think? Yeah,
2:10
Speaker 2: thinking about changing it to Slump in Season. Does it
2:14
Speaker 2: have the same juice to it? I don't know. I mean,
2:17
Speaker 2: it's just I'm you know, we're kind of working through it.
2:19
Speaker 2: We'll see.
2:20
Speaker 1: I love it. I mean, you can just swinging a
2:23
Speaker 1: junk season.
2:25
Speaker 2: Chasing Season. That's what we're doing at Chasing Seas season.
2:27
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it. You're a marketing guy.
2:29
Speaker 1: I love it. Great great taglines and titles. But look, John,
2:35
Speaker 1: I've been doing a lot of reflection on this Divisional series,
2:38
Speaker 1: just the season as a whole too, And you know,
2:41
Speaker 1: we know that the power of the bats just wasn't there.
2:44
Speaker 1: Especially during the Divisional Series towards the end of the
2:47
Speaker 1: season as well, things were just kind of slumping a
2:49
Speaker 1: little bit. The bats. They were just swinging a junk.
2:52
Speaker 1: The bullpen completely craped the bed. So, you know, moving forward,
2:56
Speaker 1: as we looked at twenty twenty five, a lot of
2:58
Speaker 1: us already are there already. My co host and I
3:01
Speaker 1: were talking about how we've we've kind of entered that
3:03
Speaker 1: realm with this Phillies team where you know, we can't
3:06
Speaker 1: we quote can't trust this team in the postseason mentally
3:10
Speaker 1: reminds us very much like the Philadelphia seventy six ers
3:13
Speaker 1: in some regards and what we've seen from them over
3:15
Speaker 1: the years. You know, they get to the playoffs and
3:18
Speaker 1: then they underperform. Is that how you're seeing this Philadelphia
3:22
Speaker 1: Phillies team an organization as we look to the future here.
3:26
Speaker 2: I don't think it's so much that they that they
3:29
Speaker 2: are that they can't win, you know what I mean,
3:32
Speaker 2: like that they that they underperform, because in twenty twenty
3:35
Speaker 2: two they certainly didn't underperform.
3:36
Speaker 1: They overperform great point.
3:38
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's the same players for the most part.
3:41
Speaker 2: I think what you've seen, you saw it in twenty
3:43
Speaker 2: twenty three towards the very end, and then you saw
3:45
Speaker 2: it really in twenty twenty four. I think teams have
3:47
Speaker 2: started to learn how to pitch to this baseball team, right.
3:51
Speaker 2: I think I think the story the book kind of
3:53
Speaker 2: got out on these Phillies that if you can get
3:55
Speaker 2: them to start chasing, they'll chase for days. Yeah, and
3:58
Speaker 2: they'll chase for weeks and then and then they figure
4:00
Speaker 2: it out. Or generally speaking, during the regular season, you
4:03
Speaker 2: run into some substandard pitching. Yeah, you know, you'll get
4:06
Speaker 2: you get the White Sox for a week, you know,
4:07
Speaker 2: and sometimes you'll get like the Nationals and Marlins come
4:09
Speaker 2: to town for you know, six or seven days, and
4:11
Speaker 2: you start getting more fastballs to hit, and it's not
4:14
Speaker 2: as big a concern. But in the playoffs you're seeing
4:16
Speaker 2: the best, right you're seeing the best pitchers. They're throwing harder.
4:19
Speaker 2: Sean and I I was throwing three miles an hour
4:21
Speaker 2: harder in his starts against the Phillies than he did
4:23
Speaker 2: during the regular season. We saw that was Zach Wheeler.
4:26
Speaker 2: He was throwing harder than he was in the regular season.
4:28
Speaker 2: So this stuff is better in the playoffs, and with
4:31
Speaker 2: this Phillies team, I think, in particular the twenty twenty
4:34
Speaker 2: four Phillies team, I think the weight of expectations crush them.
4:38
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that we saw with
4:40
Speaker 2: twenty twenty two was those guys just had a blast
4:42
Speaker 2: being in the playoffs. It was fun just being there.
4:45
Speaker 2: And that wasn't the case here in twenty twenty four.
4:48
Speaker 2: Like they really felt the weight of expectations, and I
4:50
Speaker 2: think that does affect them on the field, especially on offense.
4:54
Speaker 2: I think they were pressing. I don't think there was
4:57
Speaker 2: any joy in what they were doing in the early rounds.
4:59
Speaker 2: I think it was work for them, and I think
5:01
Speaker 2: it was like that really the entire second half of
5:03
Speaker 2: the season. When they built that big lead, it became
5:05
Speaker 2: all about, Okay, you know, maintain that lead, get ready
5:08
Speaker 2: for the playoffs. So you can make a World Series run,
5:10
Speaker 2: and I think you just ended up kind of crushing
5:13
Speaker 2: them a little bit too. So there's there's there's on
5:16
Speaker 2: field stuff, there's mechanical stuff, there's the fundamentals of who
5:19
Speaker 2: these guys are, in particular, the way the lineup was
5:21
Speaker 2: put together, and then expectations, it all, it all melded
5:25
Speaker 2: together into an early exit when.
5:28
Speaker 1: You are when we look at things in hindsight, you know,
5:30
Speaker 1: being twenty twenty, we could look at this team coming
5:32
Speaker 1: out of the All Star break, John, and really it
5:35
Speaker 1: was a confluence of so many different snowball effects of
5:38
Speaker 1: so many different things, and yet lasted for a good
5:41
Speaker 1: month or so. But as we reflect on it now,
5:44
Speaker 1: we see that snowball effect that took place. And like
5:47
Speaker 1: you said, the expectation was, oh my gosh, you know,
5:50
Speaker 1: they need to get to this certain echelon and certain level.
5:53
Speaker 1: They got there before the All Star break, and afterward
5:56
Speaker 1: that snowball effect of oh my gosh, I can't do anything,
5:59
Speaker 1: you know, pick your player, pick your player on the team.
6:02
Speaker 1: I cannot get it done. I can't get it done.
6:04
Speaker 1: It's snowballs and snowballs to the point where, oh my gosh,
6:07
Speaker 1: we are losing this thing, and what are we going
6:10
Speaker 1: to do?
6:11
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, once it starts rolling downhill, it can
6:14
Speaker 2: get ugly.
6:15
Speaker 1: Now.
6:15
Speaker 2: We saw late in the season they went like eighteen
6:17
Speaker 2: and five during a stretch in early September to really
6:20
Speaker 2: kind of cement the division, and I thought they were back.
6:22
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, you know, they figured it out and
6:24
Speaker 2: they've established their lead in the National League Geest. They
6:27
Speaker 2: put the Braves away, and then the Mets started getting
6:30
Speaker 2: a little frisky in the East, but the Phillies put
6:31
Speaker 2: them away by winning two out of three in a
6:33
Speaker 2: home series, and then after that they just kind of
6:35
Speaker 2: put it on cruise control. They said, yeah, let we
6:38
Speaker 2: know we're probably going to get a bye. You know,
6:40
Speaker 2: they say they did enough to finish ahead of the Brewers,
6:42
Speaker 2: and then they just kind of shifted it down, and
6:44
Speaker 2: you know, I think I just think the mentality that
6:48
Speaker 2: the entire team had was let's save it for October, right,
6:52
Speaker 2: Let's save it for October. And jtrail Muto talked about
6:55
Speaker 2: we thought we could just flip a switch and it
6:58
Speaker 2: would and it would be there, and this time it wasn't.
7:01
Speaker 2: And I think they played a Mets team that was
7:03
Speaker 2: better than them by the time these two teams got together.
7:05
Speaker 2: And people don't want to talk about how good the
7:07
Speaker 2: Mets starters have been. Really in the second half, the
7:09
Speaker 2: Mets starting pitching has been the best in the National
7:11
Speaker 2: League in the second half of the season. Like that
7:13
Speaker 2: guy that was a legitimate starting rotation the Phillies went
7:15
Speaker 2: up against, and we saw it late in the season.
7:17
Speaker 2: They had the Phillies' number. I also think they had
7:20
Speaker 2: something on the relievers. I think the relievers were either
7:22
Speaker 2: tipping their pitches or they were doing something where the
7:25
Speaker 2: Mets hitters kind of knew what was coming. So you
7:27
Speaker 2: just had all these different factors kind of snowballing one
7:30
Speaker 2: into the other. And then on offense when a couple
7:34
Speaker 2: of once you start, once you realize the well is
7:36
Speaker 2: a little bit dry to start, now the pressure adds
7:38
Speaker 2: even more, yes, right, and so now it's building on itself.
7:42
Speaker 2: And I thought Game two would be a kind of
7:44
Speaker 2: like a release valve for some of that. The way
7:46
Speaker 2: they broke out, I was feeling confident about things after
7:48
Speaker 2: Game two, but I kept saying, man, this is just
7:51
Speaker 2: like the Braves game Game two last year. The Braves
7:55
Speaker 2: had that big emotional comeback win, they double Harper off
7:58
Speaker 2: at first base, and you're worried. Oh no, They've got
8:01
Speaker 2: the momentum going to Philadelphia, and they didn't. They lost
8:05
Speaker 2: too straight in Philadelphia. That is exactly what happened to
8:07
Speaker 2: the Phillies. I think expectations killed the Braves last year.
8:11
Speaker 2: I think expectations killed the Phillies this year.
8:13
Speaker 1: Well, you talk about that word pressure. You use the
8:15
Speaker 1: word pressure that the team was feeling, and it really
8:19
Speaker 1: I think goes to the lack of overall patients at
8:21
Speaker 1: the plate. During this divisional series against the Mets, it
8:24
Speaker 1: was incredibly frustrating to watch, I mean, constantly chasing balls
8:28
Speaker 1: outside the strike zone, specifically stars on this team like
8:32
Speaker 1: Trey Turner swinging it pitches below the zone. I mean,
8:35
Speaker 1: you have Bryce Harper doing it as well. It kept happening,
8:38
Speaker 1: and it kept happening over and over again. Yes, these
8:42
Speaker 1: guys were in a big moment, and for much of
8:45
Speaker 1: the series they didn't have much momentum at all. And
8:48
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, is that why they kept chasing these pitches
8:52
Speaker 1: which led to their demise. I mean, you obviously talked
8:54
Speaker 1: about the pressure here, what are your thoughts? I mean
8:57
Speaker 1: was it just the big moment and then just them
9:01
Speaker 1: completely imploding here.
9:03
Speaker 2: Well, I think part of it was. But I think
9:05
Speaker 2: the other thing to remember is like this is who
9:07
Speaker 2: they are. They're free swingers. They're not They're not grinders.
9:11
Speaker 2: There really aren't any grinders in I mean Bryce and
9:13
Speaker 2: Stott last year was a grinder. He saw more pitches
9:16
Speaker 2: per plate appearances, I think than just about anybody in baseball.
9:19
Speaker 2: That guy wasn't there this year. You didn't see it
9:22
Speaker 2: with really anybody on the team this year, with the
9:24
Speaker 2: exception of Kyle Schwarber, who will grind out in at bat.
9:28
Speaker 2: Bryce Harper will grind out at bats when he's going well.
9:31
Speaker 2: But the thing with Bryce Harper in the playoffs is
9:33
Speaker 2: he wants to be the hero. And sometimes it's great.
9:36
Speaker 2: Sometimes he is the hero and he comes through, and
9:37
Speaker 2: then other times he gets himself out like he did
9:40
Speaker 2: in Game three of the Division Series against the Mets
9:43
Speaker 2: in a couple of really crucial spots. He he wanted
9:45
Speaker 2: to he wanted to duplicate what he did in Game two.
9:48
Speaker 2: He was chasing that moment, and I think you have
9:50
Speaker 2: that with a lot of guys. You know, Alec Bohm
9:52
Speaker 2: was chasing that moment throughout the entire playoffs. He just
9:55
Speaker 2: he wanted to get a hit so bad that that
9:58
Speaker 2: snowballed on itself. You know, I think the one guy
10:01
Speaker 2: who in this lineup was playing free and clear and
10:04
Speaker 2: easy was Nick Catstianos, of all people, and the rest
10:08
Speaker 2: of the lineup was just you know, they're they're free swingers.
10:11
Speaker 2: They expand the zone. And as much as swinging and
10:15
Speaker 2: missing at pitches outside the zone, which the Phillies certainly
10:17
Speaker 2: did a fair share of that and they could have
10:19
Speaker 2: gotten themselves into much better hitter situations hitters counts, they
10:23
Speaker 2: made a lot of contact on balls on the periphery
10:26
Speaker 2: of the zone and that is where the Phillies really
10:29
Speaker 2: get themselves out. And I don't know how you look
10:31
Speaker 2: up that stat right, you know contact, I mean there's
10:33
Speaker 2: outside the zone contact. The Phillies have a traditionally very
10:36
Speaker 2: high contact on balls outside the strike zone. That's not good.
10:41
Speaker 2: You'd rather swing and miss or you know, you hope
10:43
Speaker 2: they're fallon balls off if they're chasing them. But they
10:46
Speaker 2: they put so many balls in play hit weekly this
10:49
Speaker 2: year on pitchers pitches that I think that's a real
10:53
Speaker 2: problem too. You know, it's being selective, is also looking
10:56
Speaker 2: for a pitch in a specific in a specific spot
10:59
Speaker 2: and then when you get it, squaring it up and
11:02
Speaker 2: doing damage. When the Phillies are going well, they do that.
11:05
Speaker 2: But for about half the season this year, they were
11:08
Speaker 2: just they were chasing pitchers, pitches and counts they shouldn't
11:12
Speaker 2: have been getting themselves out. You know, two pitch at
11:14
Speaker 2: bats where you know, grounded third, you know, three pitch
11:16
Speaker 2: at bats pop up to second. We saw that so much,
11:19
Speaker 2: especially in the playoffs as well, Like they just they
11:22
Speaker 2: need We're gonna, I mean, we're all gonna be talking
11:25
Speaker 2: this offseason about additions that they could make without getting
11:27
Speaker 2: into names, they just got to find a couple of
11:29
Speaker 2: guys who aren't that type of hitter, yeah, to throw
11:32
Speaker 2: into the mix here and remove a couple of those
11:34
Speaker 2: other guys out.
11:35
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean, overall, I do wonder I want to
11:39
Speaker 1: get your take on this here, John, which Phillies player
11:43
Speaker 1: or even players, were you really most disappointed in during
11:46
Speaker 1: this divisional series and how do you think that disappointment
11:50
Speaker 1: could actually reflect on them as we look to twenty
11:54
Speaker 1: twenty five. I mean, for me, obviously, it's Bryce Harper
11:57
Speaker 1: and it's Trey Turner. Those are the two biggest disappointments.
12:00
Speaker 1: Do you have that biggest disappointment with regard to the
12:03
Speaker 1: divisional series? And again could reflect on what potentially they
12:06
Speaker 1: do in twenty twenty five.
12:08
Speaker 2: I think if we're talking offensively, for me, it's more
12:10
Speaker 2: the bottom of the order. I think Schwarber and Turner
12:13
Speaker 2: set the table. Okay, they were on base quite a bit.
12:16
Speaker 2: I would like to see more extra base hits from
12:20
Speaker 2: Trey Turner in the number two spot, and certainly Kyle Schwarber.
12:22
Speaker 2: You would have liked to have seen him hit for
12:24
Speaker 2: some more power, but he was. They were getting on
12:26
Speaker 2: base with walks. There were a couple of times that
12:28
Speaker 2: they were on base and then the bottom of the
12:30
Speaker 2: lineup didn't drive them in. Again, Harper and Castianos had
12:33
Speaker 2: a terrible had a terrible inning and gain in the
12:35
Speaker 2: sixth inning of Game three, and that was really, to me,
12:37
Speaker 2: the turning point of the series. From that point on,
12:39
Speaker 2: the Mets. The Mets controlled that series in its entirety.
12:43
Speaker 2: But I look at guys, you know, if I'm the
12:45
Speaker 2: most disappointed in Bryce and Stott, I'm Brandon marsh Guys
12:50
Speaker 2: who are just who were really important contributors last year
12:54
Speaker 2: who became automatic outs yea late in the season. You know,
12:59
Speaker 2: Jake real Muto, JT reil Muto was a black hole
13:03
Speaker 2: in this lineup for half the season. Yeah, and then
13:06
Speaker 2: he was out for you know, six weeks in addition
13:08
Speaker 2: to that two months, So I thought he really came
13:12
Speaker 2: up small. I think Bryson Stott and Brandon Marsh really
13:14
Speaker 2: came up small. Those are the three guys I think
13:16
Speaker 2: I was most disappointed in because they they didn't give
13:20
Speaker 2: you a thing.
13:21
Speaker 1: With the exception of Bryce Harper.
13:23
Speaker 2: Bryson Stott gave you that triple, that two run triple
13:26
Speaker 2: in Game two, big hit, big hit, that was really
13:29
Speaker 2: the one of the five big hits he's had this year. Yeah,
13:32
Speaker 2: I mean, can I can't imagine. I'm trying to remember
13:34
Speaker 2: another Bryson Stott moment and I just can't.
13:36
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we're going to get to JT. Real Muto
13:39
Speaker 1: in a little bit because I want to talk about
13:41
Speaker 1: his future with this team and where the catcher position
13:45
Speaker 1: is going to be going. But you know, as we
13:46
Speaker 1: look to twenty twenty five, we looked at the offseason. Here,
13:50
Speaker 1: the left field position obviously needs to be addressed. In
13:52
Speaker 1: my opinion, you know, you can only run so many overall,
13:56
Speaker 1: from an overall perspective in the outfield, you can only
13:58
Speaker 1: run so many platoons, especially at the same time. The
14:01
Speaker 1: Phillies were running three platoons at times in different spots
14:04
Speaker 1: during the course of this season, which I just don't
14:06
Speaker 1: think is a good recipe for success. So let's start
14:09
Speaker 1: with a left field position here, John, what are you
14:11
Speaker 1: hoping that we see potentially from Dave Dombrowski and potentially
14:15
Speaker 1: from this front office as he may address the left
14:18
Speaker 1: field position during this offseason.
14:20
Speaker 2: I hope to see Juan Soto. Yeah, I can put
14:22
Speaker 2: it bluntly now, I don't anticipate that, you know, I
14:27
Speaker 2: don't anticipate they getting him, and no one should.
14:29
Speaker 1: They actually talked about it on our show. We actually
14:31
Speaker 1: did as a fun exercise, what if Won Soto was
14:34
Speaker 1: on the Philadelphia Phillies.
14:36
Speaker 2: The reason it makes sense, and it's his name, is
14:39
Speaker 2: being connected to the Phillies in national circles. And there's
14:41
Speaker 2: there's some reasons why, and I'm sure you guys talked
14:43
Speaker 2: about it, of course, but there's the connection to Kevin Long,
14:45
Speaker 2: there's the connection to some of the Nationals teammates that
14:47
Speaker 2: you played with. And the Phillies have a lot of money. Now,
14:50
Speaker 2: are they going to unload a Brinks truck for a
14:52
Speaker 2: third guy who's going to make over three hundred million
14:56
Speaker 2: dollars and when Jan Soto's case, probably five hundred, six
14:58
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars this offseason. Yeah, I mean, that's a
15:01
Speaker 2: lot of cigars that John Middleton would actually I think
15:04
Speaker 2: he sold that company. But you know, whatever it is,
15:07
Speaker 2: whatever pies he has his hands in right now, he's
15:09
Speaker 2: gonna have to, you know, work some extra hours at
15:12
Speaker 2: the factory, whatever it is he's doing in order to
15:14
Speaker 2: afford that. So I just I don't see that. But
15:17
Speaker 2: I think they have to get more. They have to
15:19
Speaker 2: get more offensive production out of the outfield. It was
15:21
Speaker 2: one of the I think it was like one of
15:22
Speaker 2: the five or six worst offensive outfields in baseball this year,
15:25
Speaker 2: if you included Nick Castianos. Centerfield was an offensive black
15:29
Speaker 2: hole after April when Brandon Marsh's production dried up, and
15:32
Speaker 2: in left field, they just they never figured that spot out.
15:35
Speaker 2: Austin Hayes was not the answer.
15:37
Speaker 1: He was.
15:37
Speaker 2: That was a lackluster mid season trade acquisition. From Dave Dombrowski.
15:41
Speaker 2: He really whiffed on that one. He really whiffed on
15:43
Speaker 2: Austin Hayes. There were other guys that he could have
15:46
Speaker 2: gone out and gotten and and really whiffed on that.
15:49
Speaker 2: So I think they need to get in every day
15:50
Speaker 2: left fielder or in everyday center fielder platoon one of
15:53
Speaker 2: those spots. Okay, yeah, Okay. I don't know what Johann
15:58
Speaker 2: Rojas's future is with this team at this point. I mean,
16:02
Speaker 2: I think maybe he is a fourth or fifth outfielder,
16:05
Speaker 2: but I don't know that I want him as part
16:07
Speaker 2: of of a regular platoon. Yeah, simply because his bat
16:11
Speaker 2: really is just awful and it's not going to get better, kids, exactly,
16:16
Speaker 2: It's just not.
16:17
Speaker 1: That was my next topic I was going to bring
16:18
Speaker 1: up because I'm so tired john as a fan watching
16:21
Speaker 1: this center field position over these over these past few years,
16:24
Speaker 1: here the platoons, and while I love Johann Rojas's defense,
16:28
Speaker 1: He's just not good enough to be on this team
16:30
Speaker 1: from a batting perspective, He's not he's not delivering. I mean,
16:34
Speaker 1: when there's runners on scoring position, running in runners in
16:37
Speaker 1: scoring position, and it's just it's it's just a black hole.
16:40
Speaker 1: That black hole that you talked about. What are you
16:43
Speaker 1: hoping for centered field at this point? What that may
16:45
Speaker 1: look like?
16:47
Speaker 2: You know, I, without having done a deep dive into
16:49
Speaker 2: the free agent market, I think it's going to mostly
16:51
Speaker 2: be trades. Yeah, Dave Dombrowski might have to shake a
16:53
Speaker 2: tree loose, but he tried to do that with Brandon
16:56
Speaker 2: Marsh two years ago when they traded Logan Ohappy for
16:59
Speaker 2: Brandon Marsh. Oh no, it wasn't Logan a hobby for
17:01
Speaker 2: Brandon Marsh. It was because Logan Hoppy was in the
17:04
Speaker 2: Noah Cindergard trade, right, Yeah, it was somebody else. Anyway,
17:09
Speaker 2: Brandon Marsh comes to Philadelphia and essentially, you know, that's
17:12
Speaker 2: kind of what the deal was, and you expect he's
17:14
Speaker 2: going to be your center fielder of the future. We'll
17:16
Speaker 2: come to find out he can't hit left handers right,
17:18
Speaker 2: come to find out he doesn't play a great defensive
17:20
Speaker 2: center field.
17:21
Speaker 1: So it wasn't Logan, by the way.
17:23
Speaker 2: It was, okay, but I don't know who do we
17:26
Speaker 2: train for? No Sindergard? I forget now, it doesn't matter
17:29
Speaker 2: who cares, right. So yeah, so you know you've got
17:33
Speaker 2: Brandon Marsho was supposed to be that guy, and then
17:35
Speaker 2: it became Johann Rojas when you saw how good he
17:38
Speaker 2: was defensively. But they've they've got to figure something else
17:41
Speaker 2: out there because Rojas can't hit. He just he can't be.
17:45
Speaker 2: He just can't hit, and it's not getting any better.
17:47
Speaker 2: He's not going to be a bunting guy. He's not
17:49
Speaker 2: gonna be a small ball guy. That guy still takes
17:51
Speaker 2: a rip like he's trying to hit a five run
17:52
Speaker 2: home run every time up. Instead of shortening his swing,
17:55
Speaker 2: hitting the ball the other way, slapping the ball around.
17:58
Speaker 2: It's easier said than done. You know, I get it.
18:00
Speaker 2: If everybody could just slap the ball the other way,
18:03
Speaker 2: and if they didn't have a lot of power, everybody
18:05
Speaker 2: would do it. Not everybody's Tony Winn. For a few
18:07
Speaker 2: people are Tony Gwyn. Only one Tony Gwinn. So you know,
18:10
Speaker 2: I think they got to figure something out offensively in
18:13
Speaker 2: centerfield or left field and run a platoon in the
18:16
Speaker 2: other spot. I think there's a good chance that neither
18:18
Speaker 2: Brandon marsh or Johann Rojas is a part of the
18:20
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five Phillies.
18:21
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think it's a prediction.
18:23
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think the more likely is probably Rojas
18:27
Speaker 2: staying than Marsh stay. I'm almost I'm almost sure Marsh
18:31
Speaker 2: will be gone.
18:32
Speaker 1: I get Look, if there were like eight other batters
18:35
Speaker 1: that were absolute powerhouses in front of him in the lineup,
18:39
Speaker 1: I'd say, okay, fine, keep him on the team. But
18:42
Speaker 1: that's not how this team is currently constructed. I would
18:46
Speaker 1: It's not that I would hate to see him, it
18:48
Speaker 1: was it would be disappointing to see him on this
18:51
Speaker 1: team next year.
18:52
Speaker 2: Just hope that Justin Crawford has a really nice season
18:55
Speaker 2: next year, so that either by the end of twenty
18:58
Speaker 2: five or twenty twenty, you've got your answer in center field.
19:03
Speaker 2: So I think that's what they're hoping for. And that's
19:05
Speaker 2: why you may just see maybe they run back Marsh
19:08
Speaker 2: and Rojas as a platoon in center field. You go
19:10
Speaker 2: get yourself an everyday left fielder, and then you just
19:13
Speaker 2: hope across your fingers that Justin Crawford has a really
19:16
Speaker 2: nice season in the minors next year.
19:18
Speaker 1: Yeah again, folks, we're talking to John Stalliness from the
19:21
Speaker 1: Hit and Season podcast over at Billy Penn whyy He
19:27
Speaker 1: justin Klue Liz Roacher do a fantastic job. I listened
19:30
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. You should listen on whatever podcast platform
19:33
Speaker 1: you're listening to us on. You can also catch some
19:35
Speaker 1: of his work over at the Good Fight dot com
19:37
Speaker 1: as well at John Stallness on the Twitter slash x.
19:41
Speaker 1: And as we're moving along with the conversation here when
19:43
Speaker 1: it comes to Bryce and Stott and Alec Bohm, I'm
19:46
Speaker 1: wondering who we should be more worried about moving into
19:49
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I mean, I have been a huge
19:52
Speaker 1: Alec Bohm fan and defender on this podcast for quite
19:56
Speaker 1: some time now. VET folks make fun of me for it,
19:59
Speaker 1: rightfully so times. The guy makes the All Star Game, however,
20:03
Speaker 1: this year, but then he was benched in Game two
20:06
Speaker 1: of the NLDS after falling off a Cliff and Bryson Scott.
20:09
Speaker 1: As you were talking about earlier, just an underwhelming season overall.
20:13
Speaker 1: I mean you can probably, like you said earlier, John,
20:16
Speaker 1: name five big hits that he had all this season
20:19
Speaker 1: that really were contributing factors to various games. Which of
20:24
Speaker 1: these players do you or are you more worried about?
20:27
Speaker 1: As we looked at twenty twenty five, who do you
20:30
Speaker 1: want to see here, maybe not stay perhaps How do
20:33
Speaker 1: you think the shakes out with both these guys.
20:35
Speaker 2: It's a great question because both of them have very
20:38
Speaker 2: unique problems right now. Alec Bohm was, like you said,
20:42
Speaker 2: phenomenal in the first half All Star Games started at
20:45
Speaker 2: third base, second most votes among NL All Stars this year.
20:49
Speaker 2: We forget you know, Manny Machado was like far down
20:53
Speaker 2: the list because Bowmen was out playing everybody at third
20:55
Speaker 2: base in the nationally just a phenomenal season. So it
20:57
Speaker 2: was I never thought that kind of player was in there.
21:00
Speaker 2: I didn't think he had that in him. And then
21:02
Speaker 2: in the second half he kind of showed the player
21:04
Speaker 2: that I've always kind of thought him to be, which
21:06
Speaker 2: is kind of like a slightly above average offensive player
21:10
Speaker 2: at third base, which again is fine. And he wasn't
21:13
Speaker 2: a platoon guy. He was somebody who you would play
21:14
Speaker 2: against righty's and lefties, and his defense at third base
21:17
Speaker 2: has improved. I think Bryson Stott is more talented. I
21:22
Speaker 2: think he's got more tools in the toolkit. I think
21:25
Speaker 2: in terms of like a wins above replacement player, Bryson
21:28
Speaker 2: Stott if he has you know, if you look at
21:31
Speaker 2: their best seasons. This was Alec Bohm's best season. Bryson
21:34
Speaker 2: Stott's twenty twenty three was better than Alec Bohm's twenty
21:37
Speaker 2: twenty four. So, I but I just don't know if
21:41
Speaker 2: Bryson Stott can hit left handers. I don't know what
21:44
Speaker 2: happened to him this year against fastballs. I just it's
21:49
Speaker 2: mystifying to me how he struggled so much against against
21:55
Speaker 2: you know, doing things that he did well the year before.
21:58
Speaker 2: I mean, so the guy I'm probably down on more
22:03
Speaker 2: at the moment is I probably I think Bryson Stotts
22:07
Speaker 2: has more of a of a brighter future than I
22:10
Speaker 2: think than Alec Bohm does. But it's yeah, it's horse
22:13
Speaker 2: race though, man Like, there's no I mean, both of
22:16
Speaker 2: those guys really disappointed and stot all season long. But
22:21
Speaker 2: I you know, again, you see, you see the type
22:23
Speaker 2: of player he can be, and you just you don't
22:25
Speaker 2: want to give up on a guy after one bad season.
22:27
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yeah, it's baseball, folks, it's baseball. You can't give
22:30
Speaker 1: up on guys after a bad season. It's a great
22:32
Speaker 1: great line from John there. But uh, before I let
22:35
Speaker 1: you go, Buddy, one more question and topic for you
22:39
Speaker 1: because it pains me to ask this last question, but
22:43
Speaker 1: the Phillies are going to need to start looking at
22:46
Speaker 1: the long term. When it comes to the catcher spot.
22:48
Speaker 1: I think I think we are all in agreement with that. JT.
22:51
Speaker 1: Real Muto. I mean, he isn't the catcher that he
22:54
Speaker 1: once was, and he's his batting average, and I know
22:57
Speaker 1: batting average isn't everything, but over the past two seasons
23:00
Speaker 1: taken quite a hit as he has been aging. From
23:02
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen to twenty twenty two, he was batting two
23:06
Speaker 1: seventy eight. Twenty twenty three twenty twenty four, that average
23:09
Speaker 1: went down about two point fifty eight. Is it time
23:13
Speaker 1: here to start giving you know, Rafael Maarshan uh some
23:17
Speaker 1: more playing time perhaps in twenty twenty five, and you know,
23:20
Speaker 1: let J. T. Realmanto's contract expire after the twenty twenty
23:24
Speaker 1: five season. What are your thoughts here, John.
23:26
Speaker 2: Yes, and yes, yeah, that's really that simple. I mean, yes,
23:30
Speaker 2: Rafael Marshan should be getting you know, sixty starts this year, yeah,
23:34
Speaker 2: I think, or maybe fifty at least fifty at least
23:37
Speaker 2: fifty starts, yeah, I think, And I think that will
23:40
Speaker 2: make JT. Realmuto a better player. I think he'll be
23:42
Speaker 2: a fresher player. I don't think, you know, his defense
23:46
Speaker 2: now is so is not elite to the point where
23:49
Speaker 2: you really, you know, he adds a whole lot more
23:51
Speaker 2: defensively behind the plate, like what I saw from Marshawn
23:55
Speaker 2: this year in the brief time that he was here,
23:58
Speaker 2: and you know I did. It's not a platoon situation.
24:01
Speaker 2: But you know, JT real Muto, he's just not a
24:04
Speaker 2: great offensive player anymore now compared to other catchers.
24:07
Speaker 1: It's okay.
24:08
Speaker 2: I think the problem is that he's been cast as
24:10
Speaker 2: like a number five, number six hitter in this lineup,
24:12
Speaker 2: and he's probably not that guy. You know, He's probably
24:15
Speaker 2: more like a number seven, number eight hitter. And he's
24:18
Speaker 2: just he's come up small and he's had a few
24:20
Speaker 2: big postseason games in twenty twenty two, but over the
24:23
Speaker 2: last couple of years, man, just he's not a reliable
24:27
Speaker 2: guy at the plate. He's just not reliable. If you've
24:30
Speaker 2: got a runner on third in less than two outs,
24:32
Speaker 2: he is not going to get that guy home. You know,
24:36
Speaker 2: if you've got the bases loaded in two outs, he
24:38
Speaker 2: is not going to get that base hit. He's going
24:41
Speaker 2: to strike out or he's going to pop up somewhere
24:44
Speaker 2: like he just he is not a clutch player. Now
24:47
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two he had some clutch hits. Yeah,
24:49
Speaker 2: and it's not a skill necessarily, you know. I mean,
24:51
Speaker 2: I get that, but it's just that's just what I
24:53
Speaker 2: feel with him, and I feel like he's he's definitely
24:56
Speaker 2: on the downside of his career. I want to see
24:59
Speaker 2: more Marshawn next year. Garrett Stubbs, It's been real. It's
25:03
Speaker 2: been fun, that's right. But I mean that's the thing
25:08
Speaker 2: that I think with JT. Realmuto and everybody else that
25:11
Speaker 2: this the way the Phillies ended this season does is
25:13
Speaker 2: it makes everybody feel a lot better about kind of
25:16
Speaker 2: breaking some things up now, Like we all realize this
25:19
Speaker 2: group that we all loved, this, this core, this this
25:23
Speaker 2: the core is still going to be here, but they've
25:25
Speaker 2: got to change the mix, right And I said this
25:28
Speaker 2: on the last podcast. What this team was really missing.
25:31
Speaker 2: We're like two or three important players who have never
25:33
Speaker 2: been to the playoffs before. Like you, the playoff experience
25:37
Speaker 2: is great, but when everybody on the team has done
25:40
Speaker 2: all of this before, all of a sudden, now the
25:42
Speaker 2: Division series is just kind of like, Okay, we just
25:44
Speaker 2: got to get through this, you know, before we can
25:46
Speaker 2: get to the real series. I mean, and I think
25:49
Speaker 2: that's the way the team approached the Division series instead
25:52
Speaker 2: of like excitement about being in the playoffs. You know,
25:54
Speaker 2: you saw the Mets or just they were thrilled to
25:56
Speaker 2: be in the playoffs. Like you've got to have that excitement.
25:59
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know how the Astros did it
26:01
Speaker 2: every year, but they had guys who it just seemed
26:03
Speaker 2: like they were You're either so much better than everyone
26:06
Speaker 2: that it doesn't matter, right, or you've got to find
26:08
Speaker 2: a way to really get yourself up for those playoff games.
26:12
Speaker 2: And I tell you what, those Phillies, these Phillies this year,
26:14
Speaker 2: they were not up for any of those four playoffs.
26:17
Speaker 1: Goes back to the expectations that you talked about, John
26:20
Speaker 1: at the beginning of our discussion. You have those high expectations.
26:23
Speaker 1: You're not gonna be all psyched for the division around.
26:25
Speaker 1: It's not gonna it's not gonna happen. H Great, great discussion. Great. Well,
26:30
Speaker 1: I should say I should say, it's great talking to you.
26:32
Speaker 1: It's great talking to you, my friend too. Yes, and
26:36
Speaker 1: this Phillies offseason is certainly going to be an interesting one.
26:39
Speaker 1: We're gonna be following it here at the PSD podcast show,
26:41
Speaker 1: and again, folks, subscribe to the Hitting Season podcast. I
26:44
Speaker 1: subscribe on Apple Podcasts. You can hear John and the
26:48
Speaker 1: crew over there at John Staalness on the Twitter slash
26:52
Speaker 1: x and check out some of his writing over at
26:54
Speaker 1: the Good Fight dot com. John, It's always real, it's
26:56
Speaker 1: always odd, awesome to have you on h I love
26:59
Speaker 1: how you come back and join us down the road.
27:01
Speaker 1: My friend Jeff, you know anytime, buddy, that's gonna do
27:05
Speaker 1: it for us here on Table Talk this week. Please
27:07
Speaker 1: share our podcast with your friends and family members who
27:10
Speaker 1: are Philly sports fans or sports fans in general. We
27:14
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27:17
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27:21
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27:36
Speaker 1: and we'll catch you next time.