Latest / Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement / #006- “The immigration war in our backyard"

Transcript

#006- “The immigration war in our backyard" · Blue Grit Podcast: The Voice of Texas Law Enforcement

0:23
SPEAKER_05: Welcome back, listeners and watchers or viewers out there on YouTube.
0:29
SPEAKER_05: It's Blue Grit Podcast, Tyler Owen, Clint McNear.
0:33
SPEAKER_05: We have got a uh got a pretty cool guest on today.
0:36
SPEAKER_05: Uh y'all's y'all's association is the is it border patrol association?
0:41
SPEAKER_00: I mean it's the national national border patrol council.
0:45
SPEAKER_00: Okay, and you are the vice president.
0:46
SPEAKER_00: I'm the vice president of the of the council, yes.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: Chris Cabrera.
0:49
SPEAKER_00: Cabrera.
0:50
SPEAKER_00: National Vice President.
0:51
SPEAKER_05: National Vice President.
0:53
SPEAKER_05: Man, uh there's so much stuff going on.
0:55
SPEAKER_05: That's why we wanted to have you on.
0:56
SPEAKER_05: There's so many stories and and the the the the real shit that really is going on at the borders why we wanted to have you on and uh not get the uh what what'd you say they have there the the the watered down version of kind of what everybody has their version that fits their agenda, but we don't ever get to hear the real story and yeah what what is affecting y'all is affecting our members too.
1:16
SPEAKER_02: I mean it's affecting the s the our members that are DPS and game wardens and all of our locals and sheriffs and we got members all over down there and what you guys are facing the same thing our members are facing, but yeah uh we don't ever get to hear from the horse's mouth, so to speak, what you guys are up against.
1:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, um with uh your members, you know, we appreciate you guys coming down.
1:42
SPEAKER_01: Um as a Board Patrol agent, it's kind of sad that other agencies, whether it be uh federals, federal, state, or local, or national guard has to come in and help me do my job.
1:55
SPEAKER_01: That's kind of a a sore point on my end.
1:57
SPEAKER_01: But as a Texan, it's good that the state of Texas is finally stepping up and doing what the federal government won't do.
2:03
SPEAKER_01: Um but when you guys come down and and help out in our area, it leaves your areas uh unsecured.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:08
SPEAKER_01: And that's not necessarily a good thing.
2:10
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, and you so you you grew up in give us a backstory of kind of where you grew up at, where you started, where you started your law enforcement, think your prior military, and just kind of walk into kind of how how you started with with the uh the border patrol.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I grew up in uh in the Dallas Fort Worth area in in the colony, a little little bitty town there.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Um I ended up graduating out of uh the Austin area.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: I bounced around a couple different schools, I joined the military, um did four years in Hawaii, not a bad place to do uh do some military time.
2:41
SPEAKER_01: And uh I got out, ended up in San Antonio, and uh I'd never heard of the Border Patrol.
2:46
SPEAKER_01: Growing up in the Dallas area, you know, it it's not a very you know, it's not a big wasn't a huge organization at the time.
2:54
SPEAKER_01: And uh ran into a recruiter at a mall and he asked me if I wanted to join the Border Patrol, and I asked him, I said, what's that?
3:00
SPEAKER_01: And he said, Well, uh it's like playing uh hide and go seek, but you're always it.
3:05
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, Well, you know, shit, I can get behind that.
3:07
SPEAKER_01: You know, I didn't know what the pay was, I just you know I knew what I was doing, it wasn't gonna sustain me for the rest of my life, so I figured, you know, give it a shot.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: Went to the academy, wasn't that hard.
3:19
SPEAKER_01: And I ended up in McCallan, which thankfully McCallan is probably one of the better border communities, you know, along the southwest border.
3:27
SPEAKER_01: So I think I lucked out there and I've been there 21 years.
3:31
SPEAKER_02: So you had um served in the United States Army, did some pretty cool stuff, jump school, did some pretty legit stuff serving the country before you got there, and then went through Glencoe for Border Patrol Academy.
3:43
SPEAKER_02: Do you think having some prior military helped you said the academy was was wasn't too difficult.
3:50
SPEAKER_02: Do you think prior military kind of helped you transition over to like a paramilitary organization?
3:56
SPEAKER_02: Do you think that helps you back?
3:57
SPEAKER_01: I I think so.
3:58
SPEAKER_01: And I I think uh even with I think with any law enforcement, you're gonna have guys that were military, then non-military, and usually they kind of military guys kind of flock to each other.
4:06
SPEAKER_01: Not that they're completely segregated from each other, but they you know they tend to to find each other and hang out.
4:12
SPEAKER_01: And I know when I got to the Border Patrol Academy, they um they told me that uh you know our our our work days were eight to five, and after five they couldn't mess with you, and I was like, oh okay.
4:26
SPEAKER_01: And then we had our own rooms.
4:28
SPEAKER_01: It was like kind of like a crappy Motel 6.
4:30
SPEAKER_01: We had our own room, but we had to share a bathroom with one other person.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
4:33
SPEAKER_01: And they said, well, the the cleaning staff doesn't like it when you take your blankets to the beach.
4:38
SPEAKER_01: And I I I that was a lot for me to comprehend.
4:41
SPEAKER_01: I was like one cleaning staff.
4:42
SPEAKER_01: I thought we were cleaning staff.
4:44
SPEAKER_01: And then beach, I didn't know there was a beach here, and we could go there and then the cleaning staff will clean up after us.
4:50
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, it was I didn't, you know, the running, the anything physical, I didn't have a problem with it.
4:58
SPEAKER_01: The there's a lot of classwork involved, you know, all the the laws and all that crap you gotta learn.
5:03
SPEAKER_01: But you know, you just pay attention, it comes to you.
5:06
SPEAKER_01: How long was Border Patrol Academy?
5:08
SPEAKER_01: At the time, I think it was uh five and a half months.
5:10
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
5:11
SPEAKER_05: Same as ours, I guess.
5:12
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, all on site there.
5:13
SPEAKER_02: You live on you live on site.
5:15
SPEAKER_01: And then they shortened it down to a couple years back to three months.
5:21
SPEAKER_01: That didn't work out.
5:22
SPEAKER_01: So they went back to five and a half.
5:23
SPEAKER_02: And then you catch a duty.
5:25
SPEAKER_02: Is it like the military?
5:26
SPEAKER_02: Do you get like a dream list of list kind of where you want to go, or do you just get told you you shall go here?
5:32
SPEAKER_01: And no, you um before you accept the job, they give you your spot.
5:36
SPEAKER_01: You know where you're going before you even get out of the academy.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: So they'll they'll give you, you know, you get a dream list of of of what you want.
5:43
SPEAKER_01: They don't necessarily offer it to you, but they'll offer you three.
5:46
SPEAKER_01: And then you can pick one of those three.
5:48
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't, then just throw your name back in the hat and pull it later.
5:52
SPEAKER_02: So and then when you get out and get your duty assignment, is there like an FTO phase where you're kind of riding with a with a a seasoned border patrol agent?
6:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you have an FTO, which is your your class that they came out, and you'll have two or three journeyman agents, and they'll take in groups of two or three for a few months.
6:11
SPEAKER_01: And then after that, then you're assigned uh different journeyman agents for a pay period, and then after that, you get out there by yourself.
6:19
SPEAKER_05: So what what is a so let let's say that I've I've I've graduated the academy, uh, I've been through the training process.
6:27
SPEAKER_05: Kind of walk walk us through because some of the listeners and viewers may not understand, uh, you know, we're we're beat cops, and so when we start, we have briefings and then and then we typically go out and hit hit our our squadron or our our section and then we answer calls for service.
6:41
SPEAKER_05: So what's what's a daily life of a United States Border Patrol agent, whether it be at the border, whether it be in Montana, whatever, but kind of explain that process and how that works.
6:51
SPEAKER_01: Hey, you know, uh, I'll go with with my my station, for example.
6:54
SPEAKER_01: Um, you come in, you do your briefing, get all your gear.
6:58
SPEAKER_01: Um now we got into that whole body camera mess, and that's just that's just a pain in the butt.
7:03
SPEAKER_05: And how many typically are on your shift there in McCala?
7:06
SPEAKER_01: Mine, about 45.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
7:08
SPEAKER_01: And and but we're the largest station in the country.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Right.
7:10
SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
7:11
SPEAKER_01: Um we we get our areas that you know you have different zones, and then you you get your certain area and you go to that area.
7:19
SPEAKER_01: Um, we have sensor hits anytime uh somebody activates a bug or a camera goes off or a helicopter's flying over and see something, they'll they'll send you that area.
7:28
SPEAKER_01: They don't necessarily call you by name, they just say anybody in this area, and everybody just kind of flocks over there.
7:34
SPEAKER_01: Um and you just do whatever needs to be done, whether it's uh patrolling on foot, patrolling on vehicle, cutting for sign, um you know, whatever's out there.
7:45
SPEAKER_01: Um it could be that you have a group of, which is not uncommon, 75, 80 people walk up and turn themselves in.
7:51
SPEAKER_01: You start writing them up, getting the vans out there and and getting them in, getting them into the station.
7:56
SPEAKER_05: And during those briefings, I guess y'all y'all have intelligence and and where does that intel?
8:00
SPEAKER_05: Does that intelligence come from CIA, FBI?
8:02
SPEAKER_05: How does that intel I mean without any and if we're putting anything at risk with getting it?
8:06
SPEAKER_01: No, yeah.
8:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, I I think that you're giving us too much credit with CIA and FBI.
8:11
SPEAKER_01: You know, I mean we have our we have our homegrown intel, our our border patrol intel, and then we have a lot that just comes from uh um concerned citizens.
8:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:21
SPEAKER_01: Um and then there's you know, known smuggler in this area has been popped a couple times, noticed in this area, and they put that information out, the the license plates, and and then we uh we do what we call laying in.
8:34
SPEAKER_01: You just hide yourself in the brush and wait for somebody to walk by and jump out and scare the crap out of them.
8:39
SPEAKER_01: So y'all have like an intelligence for a detective unit and kind of feed y'all information, y'all are the patrol troops, and so but you know, more often than not, even in not taking anything away from those guys, the majority of our good intel comes from the guys on the same shift.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
8:51
SPEAKER_01: That they see it, they see what's going on, they recognize a trend, they pass it forward, and it develops over a couple days, and you get something good out of it.
8:59
SPEAKER_01: Not much is different with police work.
9:01
SPEAKER_02: The your boots on the ground are kind of where we get our information, getting organic intel and networking and relationships.
9:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, if you pass it up, they they have so much stuff they gotta filter through by the time it gets back down, it's old news.
9:13
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if these guys keep it in-house and and on the same, or not necessarily in-house, um if they start developing it in-house while it's going through the the formal chains, then it can be worked on while the the big wigs are deciding what needs to be done.
9:29
SPEAKER_01: By the time they come back with an answer, we've already got it apprehended.
9:32
SPEAKER_02: So are you j are you one-man teams generally, or is it two two-man squads, or and if that's something you guys don't share, just no, we our our station we usually work uh one-man teams.
9:45
SPEAKER_01: So, and I kind of prefer it.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I don't you know, the the good thing is there's enough of us if if I'm working something, I can call the guy next door to me and he can help me out.
9:56
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I like to be able to do my own thing.
9:59
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I guess when you're new, it's a little different.
10:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, you're unfamiliar with the area, you don't know too much, you might be scared of the dark.
10:07
SPEAKER_01: You'd be surprised how many guys out there are scared of the dark.
10:09
SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, until you get your feet under you, it's probably good to have somebody with you.
10:14
SPEAKER_01: Um, but I prefer to be alone.
10:16
SPEAKER_02: What's the longest you've laid in?
10:18
SPEAKER_02: You call it laying in.
10:19
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
10:19
SPEAKER_01: What's the longest you've ever laid in, waiting uh I'd say probably about eight hours, seven, eight hours.
10:25
SPEAKER_01: God.
10:26
SPEAKER_01: You know.
10:27
SPEAKER_02: Just concealed in the brush, waiting waiting on uh waiting on somebody to walk up.
10:31
SPEAKER_01: You know, and usually you're not gonna give it that long unless you know something's coming.
10:35
SPEAKER_01: And if it's coming, you'll you'll wait in there as long as you have to.
10:39
SPEAKER_05: So is it true?
10:39
SPEAKER_05: And this is just we're gonna get personal just for a second, because I had a buddy of mine that well, I was on a Marshall's task force, and this guy was set up and he did this eight-hour, ten-hour surveillance thing.
10:48
SPEAKER_05: And so he's sitting there in the brush, and this is in East Texas, and so he said all of a sudden he kept noticing all these skunks.
10:54
SPEAKER_05: And he said the skunk would go by, and he's he noticed that the skunks would immediately take a 90-degree turn, and it was the exact spot where he was he was peeing at.
11:02
SPEAKER_05: And so he starts to realize and he was like, wait a minute, and so he kind of rolls this way and he pees and he hits all four corners and then makes a makes a perimeter of where he's sitting at, and the skunks wouldn't come inside his zone.
11:13
SPEAKER_05: So it what what is there anything ever crazy that's happened as you're sitting there watching these illegals or whenever?
11:18
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I'm sure they probably walked over you uh by you and and they peed on you.
11:22
SPEAKER_05: I mean, I've because I've heard crazy stories of control agents.
11:25
SPEAKER_01: I I know there's this one rancher down there, he's got the best tangerines.
11:29
SPEAKER_01: I mean, and you know, you would think Florida, but no, this guy has the best ones.
11:34
SPEAKER_01: And he was a real, really nice old guy.
11:36
SPEAKER_01: He he passed away a couple years ago, and he would tell us, hey, if you if you come through, just grab what you need.
11:40
SPEAKER_01: No, you don't know, come with shopping bags and just get what you want and you know, go on about your business.
11:46
SPEAKER_01: So I had a trainee with me, and uh I told him, this, you know, it was hot.
11:51
SPEAKER_01: I told him, get your jacket.
11:52
SPEAKER_01: So he gets a jacket, put them on, and we pack our pockets with tangerines, right?
11:56
SPEAKER_01: And we're sitting at the edge of the the orange grove and we're watching people walk up and we catch them, and we sit them down, give them some tangerines, and we have them on this uh telephone pole that are just sitting there.
12:08
SPEAKER_01: And after a while, we you know, getting kind of bored.
12:10
SPEAKER_01: We've been there about five or six hours, and some of the other illegals were taking watch, and they would tell us when people were coming up, and so they were helping us catch their buddies, and we all just you know had to get rid of our tangerine pills after the end of it, but yeah, they you know they jumped in and they were they were helping us out.
12:29
SPEAKER_01: Like a picnic.
12:30
SPEAKER_01: You had an illegal picnic there that day.
12:31
SPEAKER_01: Orange picnic.
12:32
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, orange picnic.
12:33
SPEAKER_02: I I would I guess the ranchers really appreciate and and support what you guys do because you're you're helping you're helping their cause of trying to keep folks off their land or keep the problems.
12:47
SPEAKER_02: I guess most of the ranchers landowners down there have a good relationship with you guys and yeah.
12:53
SPEAKER_01: You know, um my grandparents are from that area.
12:56
SPEAKER_01: Um my my my parents moved out, you know, up to the Dallas area when I was young.
13:01
SPEAKER_01: Excuse me.
13:02
SPEAKER_01: And uh what my grandmother would tell me is down in that area, you know, when she was little, they would sit out there and people would walk up the same roads they walk up now.
13:14
SPEAKER_01: And my great-grandmother would see them and and they would bring them into the yard and put them under some shade, give them something to eat, some something to drink, and then send them on their way.
13:22
SPEAKER_01: Those same families, a lot of those same families still live in those houses.
13:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, obviously, you know, not the same people, but you know, the same families.
13:30
SPEAKER_01: And my grandmother would tell me it's not the same caliber of people that are coming.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: These people aren't coming to work.
13:36
SPEAKER_01: And so those same families, when people are walking up and walking over to these houses, they're shuttering the windows, they're laying on the floor and pretending like they're not home because it's a different quality of people that are coming.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: They're not coming to to work hard, they're they're coming to take.
13:50
SPEAKER_01: I mean, you don't have too many uh farm workers coming, you know, with tattoos on their face.
13:54
SPEAKER_01: It's just they're they're not coming for that.
13:56
SPEAKER_01: Right.
13:57
SPEAKER_01: Um, and and that's what we deal with.
13:58
SPEAKER_01: We deal with uh a whole different group.
14:01
SPEAKER_02: Man, that's a great segue.
14:03
SPEAKER_02: Um we had dinner with Chris last night, and and the stories are crazy, crazy but scary.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
14:10
SPEAKER_02: Um how many countries just this past year, how many countries did you guys 156.
14:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think we got better representation than the Olympics.
14:23
SPEAKER_02: Wow.
14:24
SPEAKER_02: And and for listeners to understand, and in our non-law enforcement agencies, when you say 156, you guys interacted, captured, arrested, interviewed, whatever in some form or fashion, coming across our border from Mexico, not just Hispanics from Mexico, not just Guatemalans, 156 different countries.
14:47
SPEAKER_01: And you mentioned a lot of Chinese, Russians, India, um, all we call them the stands, Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Afghanistan, you know, we just lump them on and call them stands.
14:59
SPEAKER_01: So we have all the stands.
15:01
SPEAKER_01: We've had Iraq, we've had Iran, we've had Kuwait, um, what is it, Hungary.
15:06
SPEAKER_01: Uh Romania is real big right now.
15:08
SPEAKER_01: We've seen a lot of Romanians, a lot of Ukrainians, a lot of Russians right now.
15:12
SPEAKER_02: Uh, I would imagine the Russians and the Iranians are not coming here to pick melons.
15:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably not.
15:18
SPEAKER_01: But you know, you think about it, the way this, excuse me, the way this administration's running, it's a perfect time for anybody that's Russian or Ukrainian to come over because they can say, well, if they're Ukrainian, well, hey, they're they're invading our country.
15:30
SPEAKER_01: And if they're Russian, well, they're gonna force me to fight in a war I don't want to fight in.
15:33
SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna roll over and say, okay, well, come on in.
15:36
SPEAKER_01: And some of these dudes are are are big dudes, you know, it's not guys you want to mess with.
15:40
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
15:41
SPEAKER_02: Um probably combat experience.
15:43
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we've seen military body.
15:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've had some Chechen's come through, and I think it was last year or the year before, we caught a guy from the IRA, the uh Irish Republican Army.
15:51
SPEAKER_02: So um And that's that's the biggest thing I hope anybody that's watching this takes away from this.
15:57
SPEAKER_02: No matter what you see on whatever your flavor of news you watch is, don't be so naive to think that this whole thing is about a few Hispanic families that are wanting to come across to to, you know, work in the fields or find a good job or make a new living or find a new, you know, live the American dream.
16:17
SPEAKER_02: There's a whole lot more to it when you have 156 countries coming across uh than for some poor child from Guatemala that's just trying to make a better living.
16:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you look at it, it used to be when I when I first started in the patrol, um everything would die down.
16:33
SPEAKER_01: Uh it it would start up January 15th, somewhere after that.
16:38
SPEAKER_01: That's when everybody started coming back over.
16:40
SPEAKER_01: Inauguration, yeah.
16:41
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and they're gonna they're gonna go pick the crops, they're gonna get to where they're going.
16:45
SPEAKER_01: So from January 15th to about end of or middle of May, they that was your busy season.
16:51
SPEAKER_01: And then after that, it just stopped.
16:53
SPEAKER_01: And then in the wintertime, come December, you'd see all these people headed back south into Mexico.
16:59
SPEAKER_01: And so those were those were your migrant, your typical migrant workers.
17:04
SPEAKER_01: Um now it just doesn't stop.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: It's year-round.
17:08
SPEAKER_01: You know, we've we're catching thousands of people in the middle of December.
17:12
SPEAKER_01: There's no crops to pick in December.
17:14
SPEAKER_01: So that tells you it's it they're not they're not coming for work, they're coming because the door is open.
17:19
SPEAKER_01: They they know this uh this gravy train is good.
17:24
SPEAKER_01: It's been going on since 2013, and we haven't done anything to close the loophole.
17:28
SPEAKER_01: If the federal government was a for-profit company, we would have been bankrupted years ago.
17:32
SPEAKER_02: Without getting super political.
17:37
SPEAKER_02: Different philosophies that is enforced by the various administrations.
17:43
SPEAKER_02: Do you guys, do the boots on the ground, see any effectiveness of the last administration, right, wrong, or indifferent to their policy and how they enforced it versus the current administration and the policies that they do or do not enforce without getting super political and and being divisive with the vis uh viewers, listeners.
18:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, um the majority of our our agents were were pro-Trump.
18:12
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just it's what it is.
18:14
SPEAKER_01: Um he was very pro-border patrol, we were very pro pro-Trump.
18:18
SPEAKER_01: But we did have some some agents and some supervisors that couldn't stand Trump.
18:22
SPEAKER_02: Um now because of his policies and what he allowed y'all to do, no, because of his personality.
18:29
SPEAKER_01: Okay, you know, and uh so they didn't like him, and you know, that's that's their own thing.
18:34
SPEAKER_01: Um but now with this new administration that that's that's completely neutered us, they're they're the same people that didn't like him are kind of wishing he was back because we were actually allowed for the first time in a long time to go out there and work.
18:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and our our agents uh they just want to work, and I I tell people that law enforcement agents aren't or uh unions aren't like regular unions.
18:59
SPEAKER_01: We don't care where you put the damn coffee pot.
19:01
SPEAKER_01: We don't care if we have lumbar support in our chair.
19:04
SPEAKER_01: We just want to work.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: Yes.
19:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, we're we're probably the only people asking for more work.
19:08
SPEAKER_01: Where in other unions are saying, hey, I need a longer coffee break, law enforcement unions are saying, hey, just give me some good body armor and point me in a direction and let me go.
19:15
SPEAKER_01: So that's the only difference between us and other unions.
19:17
SPEAKER_05: That's what's crazy because federal, it really depends on what side of the aisle the sitting president is of whether you guys are effective or not, or that you guys can be successful at your jobs, and that's what's that's what's wrong about it, I guess, is what I'm saying.
19:32
SPEAKER_05: Because you do have different mayors within you know our members or you know, certain political sheriffs that are Democrat, Republican, whatever, and that shouldn't be right.
19:39
SPEAKER_05: I think that that we're policing and and politics should not should not intertwine with each other.
19:45
SPEAKER_05: And that's that's sad that you guys are having to deal with that because of a certain political agenda.
19:51
SPEAKER_01: You know, I've said that for years.
19:52
SPEAKER_01: I think um, you know, the the party system, the Democrat, Republican, it shouldn't apply to sheriffs, right?
19:58
SPEAKER_01: Shouldn't apply to judges because the law is the law.
20:01
SPEAKER_01: Regardless of what your stance on abortion is, it doesn't matter.
20:05
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the law says what the law says, I don't care what your feelings are, enforce the damn law.
20:09
SPEAKER_05: The D I a sitting DA that we had on a couple couple episodes ago, he said that you can't apply red and red or blue philosophy to black or white.
20:18
SPEAKER_05: I agree.
20:19
SPEAKER_05: And that that there's a lot of truth in that.
20:21
SPEAKER_05: Uh so anyway, I just thought it's it's uh it's sad that you guys were having to go through that.
20:26
SPEAKER_05: But uh you also last night mentioned something about uh how children this is affecting the you know children coming across the border and and all that kind of stuff.
20:34
SPEAKER_05: If you want to kind of go into detail of different stories of you know, like like the 10-year-old uh that you had a couple of days ago, yeah, it was three months that she'd been walking, and then the there's a clause with the six-year-old.
20:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:45
SPEAKER_01: You know, when when the prior administration had uh uh enacted the remaining Mexico policy, everybody, you who, the whole crew, everybody was going back.
20:55
SPEAKER_01: Um, whether you were three months old, ten months old with a parent, or 75 years old.
21:01
SPEAKER_01: When the new administration came in, they said, Hey, no more remain in Mexico, everybody's allowed to come.
21:06
SPEAKER_01: And then a couple days later they reversed and said, Hey, we gotta go back to remain in Mexico.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: Mexico said, Hey, you know what?
21:12
SPEAKER_01: We're Mexico, you're not remaining here without our say so, we're not taking anybody under the age of six.
21:17
SPEAKER_01: So that kind of threw uh a monkey wrench into the system.
21:21
SPEAKER_01: Not necessarily for us, I mean we're used to it, but for the family.
21:25
SPEAKER_01: So, in a sense, what happened is if you had a child under six in your group at any any any part of it, then you weren't getting sent back to Mexico.
21:35
SPEAKER_01: But if your youngest was seven, then you were getting sent back.
21:39
SPEAKER_01: So, what would happen is the parents would get smuggled into the country alone and then they would send for the kid.
21:45
SPEAKER_01: So now you're having uh a bunch of seven year old girls coming over in care of a smuggler by themselves.
21:53
SPEAKER_01: Who knows what can happen to them, who knows what does happen to them when they get here, then we send them back to the parents, and the the parent gets.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: Status off the kid.
22:00
SPEAKER_01: So in a sense, this this parent is using this child.
22:04
SPEAKER_01: Now, I can't leave my kid in the Walmart parking lot with the car on for five minutes, or I'm going to jail.
22:10
SPEAKER_01: But you're going to put this kid on top of a bus for three countries and then on top of a train for three countries and then get him back at the end of the day.
22:17
SPEAKER_01: That's just not right.
22:18
SPEAKER_02: In the hands of a smuggler who certainly doesn't have their best interest.
22:22
SPEAKER_01: And I I've found, I mean, literally two-year-old kids in the brush by themselves.
22:26
SPEAKER_01: Not in the brush with other people that they don't know, like by themselves.
22:31
SPEAKER_01: Two years old.
22:32
SPEAKER_01: Just out there in the woods by themselves.
22:34
SPEAKER_01: Um because let's face it, these people are moving, and if you can't keep up, they leave you behind.
22:39
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
22:41
SPEAKER_02: So how do you guys, how do you like right now, and uh we'll get into the the horse reigns incident in a minute, but how do you guys and how do you as a as a leader in in the organization and an association leader, how do you keep how do you keep your crew motivated?
23:02
SPEAKER_02: Hey, let's keep going out there and fighting the fight.
23:05
SPEAKER_02: Um we're swimming up upstream of Niagara Falls, but yeah, let's keep fighting the fight.
23:10
SPEAKER_02: And uh how do you as a leader and how do you as an association leader, how do you keep how do you keep your troops moving forward?
23:16
SPEAKER_01: You know, everybody's a little bit different, but you just gotta let them know that that eventually the you know the the shit sandwich is gonna go away at some point.
23:25
SPEAKER_01: But we we all got to take a bite of it.
23:27
SPEAKER_01: We we keep pushing on, keep keep driving on, and at some point it's gonna change.
23:32
SPEAKER_01: We don't know if that's gonna be weeks, months, or years, but at some point it will change.
23:36
SPEAKER_01: Luckily, we've had a lot of uh congressional interest in the Border Patrol, so we're trying to strike the iron while it's hot.
23:42
SPEAKER_01: Hopefully we'll get something done.
23:44
SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah, that's the hard part is you know you can't tell guys to put blinders on and just not do their job because well, some will, but most won't.
23:54
SPEAKER_01: We're just not built that way.
23:56
SPEAKER_01: Um But you just gotta keep you gotta keep driving on, you know.
24:00
SPEAKER_01: Policy-wise, you used an awesome analogy last night.
24:03
SPEAKER_01: Oh, with uh with the yeah, the water thing.
24:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:07
SPEAKER_01: A lot of my a lot of my analogies are plumbing related.
24:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
24:10
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, man, I like that.
24:11
SPEAKER_01: If you don't mind sharing You know, with this uh fixing this this border issue, uh a lot of people say that you know we need comprehensive immigration reform.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: And you know, to a to agree, yeah, we do.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: But you you can't that can't be first.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: First, you have to seal the border, you have to stop the the flow.
24:29
SPEAKER_01: Uh in a sense, if if your sink was overflowing, are you gonna mop first or are you gonna turn off the water supply?
24:36
SPEAKER_01: And what they're trying to do now is they're trying to mop, just like they did in the 80s when Reagan did Amnesty.
24:42
SPEAKER_01: Well, they still haven't shut off the supply, so you mopped, but we've still got water on the floor.
24:46
SPEAKER_02: All you're gonna do is keep mopping.
24:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so you might as well shut off the supply, fix the problem, and then open it back up once you once you've cleaned everything up.
24:55
SPEAKER_02: Man, I'm so glad you shared that.
24:57
SPEAKER_02: That's important for people to hear.
24:59
SPEAKER_02: And you said that last night.
25:00
SPEAKER_02: I'm like, holy hell, man, that's a simple concept that apparently everybody wants to make so complicated.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got another one, and like I said, it's it's kind of plumbing related.
25:09
SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't know why.
25:12
SPEAKER_01: I have no idea.
25:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, probably because I end up having to do that crap at the house.
25:17
SPEAKER_01: But it's like with this Title 42, they they want to get rid of it, right?
25:21
SPEAKER_01: And you know, anybody's had a sink stopped up, you you have that little P trap under there, you take that thing out, and what happens?
25:27
SPEAKER_01: The water comes out.
25:28
SPEAKER_01: So you got to put a freaking bucket under there.
25:30
SPEAKER_01: And if you don't, you're gonna have a mess.
25:32
SPEAKER_01: Well, what this new administration did is hey, you know, it's it's it's your game, it's your rules.
25:36
SPEAKER_01: They can do whatever they want, they can set whatever policies they want.
25:39
SPEAKER_01: That's that's part of winning.
25:41
SPEAKER_01: You know, the winner gets to choose.
25:43
SPEAKER_01: But if you take that thing out, you gotta have something to catch that water.
25:46
SPEAKER_01: Well, they pulled that thing out and they didn't have a policy in place to catch that water, and that's what we're dealing with now.
25:51
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
25:52
SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's the thing is if you win, hey, it's your rules, buddy.
25:55
SPEAKER_01: Right, knock yourself out.
25:57
SPEAKER_01: But if you screw up, own it.
26:00
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, people are gonna say something.
26:01
SPEAKER_01: And I mean, that's part of being a top dog.
26:04
SPEAKER_01: There's always somebody pulling on your coattail to bring you down.
26:06
SPEAKER_02: So Yeah, and the problem is it's it's easy to sit at a distance and make policy and without a concept of how bad it is affecting you guys on the ground every day chasing your tails, trying to um because uh we'll segue into it right now.
26:24
SPEAKER_02: You and I talked offline we're getting beat up by our members because there is such a dire recruiting crisis and can't hire anybody, and everybody our age is getting out of it.
26:35
SPEAKER_02: You know, you and I are almost old heads, so we're everybody's leaving, and and I uh you you guys are in the same predicament.
26:41
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
26:42
SPEAKER_02: So in addition to chasing your tails because of policies, you short staffed.
26:46
SPEAKER_02: Um what's what's your current crisis like looking like staffing?
26:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we're we're I think there's a congressional mandate that we're supposed to be at a certain level.
26:55
SPEAKER_01: I think it's like twenty thousand or twenty-five or some somewhere twenty point five.
27:01
SPEAKER_01: Um I think we're we're down in the eighteens, you know, eighteens, mid-18s.
27:06
SPEAKER_01: Um we're we're nowhere near where we need to be, and and we're losing for every one we hire, we're losing three or four.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
27:13
SPEAKER_01: Either either going to a different job, some getting I know one guy left to go be a manager at H B.
27:20
SPEAKER_01: Wow.
27:21
SPEAKER_01: You know, I know guys that have left to go be a high school softball coach.
27:25
SPEAKER_01: Um, I've had a couple friends that joined the patrol and then leave and go back to their old job at PD.
27:31
SPEAKER_01: You know.
27:32
SPEAKER_05: Let me ask you this, because the the the current administration, a lot of the mental health that's going on, and and I think I saw our news article last week that uh just like it's affecting your local law enforcement, it's also affecting you guys tremendously.
27:44
SPEAKER_05: I mean, it's it's a that's a big issue.
27:47
SPEAKER_05: What because because you guys are suffering from trying to enforce the new border uh or or excuse me, the new administration's policies, what has the new administration done or pushed to to you guys as resources for mental health?
28:01
SPEAKER_01: They've done absolute jack shit.
28:03
SPEAKER_01: Really?
28:06
SPEAKER_01: Y'all had some losses recently.
28:07
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we've since the beginning.
28:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, last year we lost 14.
28:10
SPEAKER_02: Um killed in line of duty or suicide.
28:12
SPEAKER_01: No, that's all suicides.
28:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, suicide.
28:14
SPEAKER_01: Fourteen last year.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
28:15
SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's huge with the border patrol.
28:16
SPEAKER_01: Just in border patrol.
28:17
SPEAKER_01: And you look at NYPD, which is almost double our numbers, they had five.
28:24
SPEAKER_02: You know, so we all had four close together, I think, in December or something.
28:30
SPEAKER_01: Um and you look at that now, don't get me wrong, the agency is trying to do something.
28:38
SPEAKER_01: They're trying to, but it's bogged down with too much paperwork.
28:43
SPEAKER_01: Um and until they get serious, they cut out this paperwork, it's it's never gonna fix itself.
28:49
SPEAKER_01: I had an agent come to me years ago, female, and uh she was suicidal.
28:54
SPEAKER_01: So we talked to the boss and say, she's suicidal, okay.
28:57
SPEAKER_01: We're gonna pull the gun.
28:58
SPEAKER_01: Rightfully so, I get that.
29:00
SPEAKER_01: I don't necessarily understand it because she probably has another one at home, but okay, pull the gun, you know, get her some help, and she was going through the help, and then they said, Okay, by the way, we're gonna give her a fitness for duty.
29:10
SPEAKER_01: She's not fit to be a border patrol agent.
29:12
SPEAKER_01: So wait a minute.
29:13
SPEAKER_01: You have somebody that you have money problems, uh problems with your spouse, and problems with your job.
29:20
SPEAKER_01: Those are your top three reasons for committing suicide.
29:23
SPEAKER_01: And now so now you you put her on rubber gun, so now she has money.
29:27
SPEAKER_01: The spouse problem was probably the other reason.
29:28
SPEAKER_01: Now you're gonna take her job.
29:30
SPEAKER_01: Now she's really suicidal.
29:31
SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
29:31
SPEAKER_01: And so I called the chief and I said, look, if you don't think for one second that the next agent that commits suicide, that I won't go to the widow and tell him the reason he didn't come for help is because you would have fucked and fired him.
29:41
SPEAKER_01: You're mistaken.
29:42
SPEAKER_01: So they backed off and she kept her job.
29:45
SPEAKER_02: Which is no motivation for anybody to come forward.
29:47
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:48
SPEAKER_02: Because if I come forward and say I'm struggling, I come forward and say, hey, I may be drinking, you're gone.
29:52
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
29:53
SPEAKER_02: Well, why would I come forward then?
29:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and and they need to make it that one, first off, when an agent commits suicide, which is terrible, they should be given the same honors as as an agent who was killed in the line of duty.
30:09
SPEAKER_01: We had an agent that was killed in the line of duty, an agent committed suicide within two weeks of each other.
30:14
SPEAKER_01: One of them got full honors, the other one got nothing.
30:17
SPEAKER_01: And how the how do you think his family felt where so what he wasn't important because he killed himself?
30:22
SPEAKER_01: That's not right.
30:23
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:23
SPEAKER_05: Um and and and and and on top of that, the mental health that they're going through has every bit to do with the job he's doing.
30:32
SPEAKER_05: Exactly.
30:32
SPEAKER_01: And you know, they need to they need to make it so these people will come for like with the military.
30:38
SPEAKER_01: The military was good on on fixing you.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
30:40
SPEAKER_01: If there was something wrong with you, they'd fix you.
30:42
SPEAKER_01: They did a lot of dumb shit.
30:43
SPEAKER_01: But but there was a reason behind everything they did.
30:46
SPEAKER_02: Well, they didn't treat it.
30:47
SPEAKER_02: If you come forward with and say, hey man, I got PTS, they didn't treat it like terminal cancer.
30:53
SPEAKER_02: Oh, you're done.
30:54
SPEAKER_02: You're over, your career is immediate, you're out, you're done.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
30:57
SPEAKER_02: And I I talk about mental health a lot, and I always say the military is not light years ahead of most things.
31:04
SPEAKER_02: They're usually behind.
31:05
SPEAKER_02: But in the mental health arena, they're light years ahead of law enforcement as far as actually trying to truly care and address it.
31:14
SPEAKER_02: Because uh on the PD side too, uh, just like you guys, with a few exceptions, Dallas PD, their chief, Eddie Garcia is super supportive.
31:23
SPEAKER_02: The agency I retired from at Garland, if you come forward with a problem, they're gonna commit to help you.
31:29
SPEAKER_02: But we get legal calls every day.
31:31
SPEAKER_02: Hey, I came forward and told them I'm struggling and I just got fired.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:34
SPEAKER_01: And you know, the the the thing with the odd part of the patrol is why don't we reach out to the military and say, hey, you got this program going.
31:42
SPEAKER_01: You know, can we send some people in there to observe it, to figure it out, to take it, to adopt it as our own?
31:47
SPEAKER_01: Instead, they want to reinvent the wheel, make it a triangle, and tell you it's freaking better.
31:52
SPEAKER_05: Um make it theirs.
31:53
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and you know what?
31:54
SPEAKER_01: There's you know, the military's been doing a lot of things for a long time, and you know, some of it they got right.
32:00
SPEAKER_01: You know, take advantage of it.
32:02
SPEAKER_01: Take the you know, the framework's already there, take advantage of it.
32:05
SPEAKER_02: Dallas chief Eddie Garcia um started OWL, OWL officer wellness liaison program, I believe.
32:14
SPEAKER_02: Um you come forward and tell them you got a problem, they're gonna fix it.
32:17
SPEAKER_02: Had an officer come forward recently, um, had some crisis going on and was drinking too much.
32:22
SPEAKER_02: They sent him to rehab for 30 days.
32:26
SPEAKER_02: He came back and went right back to his spot, right where he was, hit the street again.
32:30
SPEAKER_02: They didn't treat him like, you know, he suddenly is a pariah and is, you know, gonna kill everybody or do anything crazy.
32:39
SPEAKER_02: You had a problem, we fixed the problem, get back to work, keep doing a good job.
32:42
SPEAKER_05: He was officer Gordon, shout out to him.
32:43
SPEAKER_05: That was a phenomenal, phenomenal episode uh ATO podcast.
32:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm actually gonna reach out and and and look into that right there.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:51
SPEAKER_02: I'll get you a link up on Get Offline, man.
32:53
SPEAKER_02: They're doing Joe King, the officer wellness program, Chief Garcia's shout out for him for having the intestinal fortitude.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
33:01
SPEAKER_02: Uh he sent a tweet.
33:02
SPEAKER_02: The officer made a paracord band while he was in uh rehab getting getting cleaned up and uh gave it to the chief, and the chief didn't hide from it.
33:13
SPEAKER_02: He took a picture and tweeted it, supporting my troops that are getting well and taking care of themselves.
33:18
SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, man, you got some chiefs hiding from it, and then you got one tweeting that he stands with his folks.
33:23
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
33:24
SPEAKER_02: It's awesome, man.
33:24
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I think I don't think the average person realizes the the stuff we see out there.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:30
SPEAKER_01: You know, they and you know, the other ones that that are kind of the unsung heroes are uh not the firemen, because I know but um like the the EMS guys, man, those guys see some stuff, man.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: And and you know, they don't get any recognition for it.
33:47
SPEAKER_01: And in the military, you have 18 months crash course and in uh and all the PTS you can handle, right?
33:54
SPEAKER_01: Everything in 18 months.
33:55
SPEAKER_01: In law enforcement, you have 20 years, but you get a whole lot more.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: Maybe not, maybe not as compressed, but you get a whole lot more, and and it just doesn't seem to be that big of an issue that nobody really is taking uh, you know, and you do so notice paramedic EMT work too.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I I I picked up a spot as an EMT a few years back.
34:14
SPEAKER_01: I had a I was out there working in the field one day, and you know, I picked up my subway sandwich and I was sitting there, you know, grab a bite in the flood.
34:24
SPEAKER_01: The subway on the border by the river.
34:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
34:27
SPEAKER_01: And so uh I hear an agent call out that he has a group of 101 people.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: I need to write them up.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, shit, you know, I'll go help him out, but I mean, knock this sandwich out real quick.
34:37
SPEAKER_01: And then I hear him say, Well, you know, I got a uh a two-year-old, he's unresponsive.
34:41
SPEAKER_01: So shit, you know, leave a sandwich, go out there.
34:44
SPEAKER_01: Um I get there and yeah, I don't know what to do, right?
34:48
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, I I you know, I get the kid and I I give him a little sternum rub, which you're probably not supposed to do anymore, and he's just there.
34:55
SPEAKER_01: He's just like a big lump.
34:56
SPEAKER_01: And uh the agent's freaking out, and he's like, What do we do?
34:59
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, look, there's a hundred people here, we got to do something.
35:02
SPEAKER_01: And so I asked somebody if they have any ice, and you know, one of the contractors comes over and she's trying to scoop water out of a thermos with a glove, and I just grab him and start dumping it on the kid and giving him little chest compressions, and then his eye flutters, and then he starts coughing.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: One of my classmates uh from the academy is an EMT, so he starts coming over that way, and we get the kid revived, right?
35:25
SPEAKER_01: Wow, no kidding.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he had sepsis, he had a hundred and four point five degree temperature, he had a brain hemorrhage from the mom shaking him.
35:38
SPEAKER_01: Um he had the flu, he had pneumonia, and he had three brown recluse spider bites, uh, one on his face and one on his neck.
35:49
SPEAKER_01: And uh and so he was in pretty bad shape.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: And I guess, you know, the mom, you know, he crying, so she shook him or whatever, and he had a brain hemorrhage, but he survived, you know.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: Luckily he survived because of y'all's intervention.
36:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it got me sick.
36:02
SPEAKER_01: I I got pneumonia pretty bad.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: But um, you know, he That's a story folks don't hear though, man.
36:08
SPEAKER_02: That's incredible.
36:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and so after that, I I I said, you know, I need to take an EMT course because, you know, whether it's at work or at home, I gotta know this shit.
36:19
SPEAKER_01: So, you know, having my time in service, you know, the Board Patrol offers EMT courses, and I thought, well, you know, uh, I'm not on the line every day, so it'd be kind of shitty if I just stepped in and took somebody's spot.
36:30
SPEAKER_01: So I have a friend down there that he's a fire marshal, but he has his own EMT company that uh the training company.
36:37
SPEAKER_01: So I just took his class and he got me certified, and then I gave it to the patrol, and they put me on the unit.
36:42
SPEAKER_01: So but yeah, it was kind of kind of scary, you know, to have a little kid do that.
36:48
SPEAKER_02: And that's the stories folks need to hear, not the lasso and the window.
36:52
SPEAKER_02: Not uh not long reins on a horse.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
36:54
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know what the other thing is is this is a lot of people never hear this, is most of our newer guys, or not most of them, but a good chunk of them are are are white guys.
37:05
SPEAKER_01: We're we're getting a lot more white guys coming in the patrol.
37:08
SPEAKER_01: Um before it was mainly Hispanics.
37:11
SPEAKER_01: And uh quite a few of these guys are have medical knowledge, and they're the the the nicest to the people they they encounter by far.
37:23
SPEAKER_01: The the the white guys that that don't speak the language well from northern part of the United States, they treat the illegals the best.
37:32
SPEAKER_01: The ones that are the meanest are the ones that are from Mexico, born in Mexico and naturalized.
37:38
SPEAKER_01: Um but yet the ones that get a bad rap are the white guys because they're Nazis.
37:43
SPEAKER_01: People are calling them, and these guys are doing more than the average agent to help people, putting themselves at risk by by giving a kid mouth to mouth where he shouldn't be because there's no there's no barrier.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: Right.
37:56
SPEAKER_01: And they're the ones that get shit on by the average person in the street as being you know a Nazi or a white supremacist when when they're doing their best to help these people.
38:06
SPEAKER_01: And that to me is a shame.
38:08
SPEAKER_05: So my my wife is is half Hispanic.
38:11
SPEAKER_05: Uh how is it working in your personal life when you obviously you know you work for Border Patrol for 21 years?
38:20
SPEAKER_05: How many how many relationships uh has it affected with knowing in that in that Hispanic culture?
38:28
SPEAKER_05: Uh because let's be honest, Border Patrol uh is not well liked uh in in in in some aspects with with that culture.
38:36
SPEAKER_05: And how how how how have you dealt with that on a personal level of doing that?
38:41
SPEAKER_05: And how have you have you got shunned from different events?
38:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, I've had some people uh you know make comments.
38:46
SPEAKER_01: I've been driving, I had a like a three-year-old kid shoot me in the finger one time at a Walmart, and I was like, you know.
38:53
SPEAKER_01: Love you too.
38:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um, I had one of my my wife's nieces tell me, she said, Well, how can you do this job uh to your people?
39:00
SPEAKER_01: And I said, Well, easy.
39:02
SPEAKER_01: You know, it's you do it with compassion, you treat everybody like they're your grandmother until they give you reason not to.
39:08
SPEAKER_01: And you treat them right, you treat them good, you treat them humanely, and you move on, you know.
39:14
SPEAKER_01: So um and I and I thought about it, you know, if I wasn't here doing this job, that's right, who would the guy replacing me do it humanely?
39:24
SPEAKER_01: That's right.
39:24
SPEAKER_01: And if he wouldn't do it humanely, then maybe I gotta stick around.
39:27
SPEAKER_02: If not me, then who?
39:28
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
39:29
SPEAKER_05: So what's that old country song?
39:30
SPEAKER_05: Who's gonna fill his shoes at George Jones?
39:32
SPEAKER_05: George Jones.
39:33
SPEAKER_02: I think it's George Jones.
39:34
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:35
SPEAKER_02: So The Possum.
39:39
SPEAKER_02: The Possum.
39:40
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he's from Texas, Jacksonville.
39:42
SPEAKER_05: I don't know, but I've I've me and my wife have been watching that George and Tammy Wanette Showtime series.
39:46
SPEAKER_05: Have you seen it?
39:47
SPEAKER_05: It's phenomenal.
39:48
SPEAKER_02: He's from Texas.
39:49
SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
39:50
SPEAKER_02: Um I I we can't get off here without addressing the elephant in the room with the horse whipping story.
40:00
SPEAKER_02: And I grew up around horses and I know what long reins look like, and uh I understand horsemanship, but for our our viewers and listeners, um that got that whole story got perverted and used.
40:14
SPEAKER_02: Anybody with some common sense could look at a picture and tell what's going on, but would you mind sharing from the horse's mouth?
40:20
SPEAKER_02: Well, not horse's mouth intended from what happened and why that deal got exploited and and if you don't mind you don't have to give a name, but how how are the folks involved in that doing today?
40:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know uh the the agents were using those reins to to control the horse.
40:38
SPEAKER_01: Um that's how they do it.
40:40
SPEAKER_01: Uh they they there, I guess their one I can't say a mistake, they didn't make a mistake at all, but they went in there and and they probably should have had more backup going into something like that.
40:55
SPEAKER_01: So um not that that's a good thing.
40:57
SPEAKER_01: And sometimes what we're we're yeah, sometimes you play the hand you're dealt.
41:01
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you yeah, you you go you go to war with uh the army you have, not the army you want.
41:05
SPEAKER_01: And so I I would imagine in in their eyes, hey, we're gonna get out there and get this thing uh held down until we get reinforcements.
41:11
SPEAKER_01: Rightfully so.
41:12
SPEAKER_01: You know, hindsight's always 2020.
41:14
SPEAKER_01: Um so I I think what the agency ended up coming back with them was uh they used improper language.
41:20
SPEAKER_01: They said some bad words to the people and hurt their feelings.
41:24
SPEAKER_02: So the administration swearing they were outraged and gonna hold people accountable has boiled down to somebody said a bad word.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
41:32
SPEAKER_01: And you know, I I've never seen uh agents come together like they did.
41:36
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was like uh our 9-11, how how the the country pulled together after 9-11, that the Border Patrol pulled together after 9-11.
41:44
SPEAKER_01: All the agents came together and and and stood firm.
41:47
SPEAKER_01: Uh when my orcas would come to um different muster briefings, he'd get an earful.
41:52
SPEAKER_01: He doesn't even make muster briefings anymore.
41:54
SPEAKER_01: Um they these guys just tear him up every chance they get.
41:57
SPEAKER_01: They get up, and uh I I've had guys stand up and turn their back to him.
42:02
SPEAKER_01: I had one guy tell him that my orcas was wearing a border patrol jacket, and he told him, Hey, when did you go to the academy?
42:09
SPEAKER_01: And he goes, I haven't been to the academy.
42:11
SPEAKER_01: He goes, but I'm head of the organization.
42:13
SPEAKER_01: He goes, Well, you haven't been through my academy, so you need to take that jacket off because you haven't earned that badge.
42:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, so I mean our guys, you know, they're not backing down from this anymore.
42:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, they didn't, those agents did their job.
42:27
SPEAKER_01: They did their job.
42:28
SPEAKER_01: Um, did they say a bad word?
42:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but who doesn't?
42:32
SPEAKER_01: Um to me all the time.
42:34
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
42:35
SPEAKER_01: But let's be honest, if the agency had done their job, that's right, then these guys wouldn't have had to do their job.
42:40
SPEAKER_02: Well, and if the administration had stood, yeah, but it's a whole separate topic.
42:45
SPEAKER_02: The agents still employed, they're they're doing okay today.
42:48
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, they're doing good.
42:49
SPEAKER_01: Um I, you know, they're they're employed.
42:51
SPEAKER_01: Uh, we our our attorneys have have stepped up and and went in there and and our our attorneys are really, really good, you know.
42:59
SPEAKER_01: So I I think those agents are gonna come out of there all right.
43:02
SPEAKER_01: Um, if it was me, I don't know if you could sue the the government or or you know, my orcus or Biden or Harris or whoever personally for slandering you.
43:14
SPEAKER_01: But you know, I think that'd be definitely something to look into, you know, especially with some of these media coming out and saying what they did without knowing the whole story.
43:21
SPEAKER_01: And when coming to find out they knew the whole story, they just didn't want to report the whole story.
43:25
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and it and if if you want to come out and speak uneducated about an issue, not understanding horses and reins and how you guys work, that's one thing.
43:34
SPEAKER_02: But when you come out that strongly against you guys, you can at least have the common courtesy to to come back and say, hey, upon further review, uh there was a misunderstanding there.
43:44
SPEAKER_02: And uh we support our troops down there trying to take care of things on the border.
43:49
SPEAKER_02: Something other than nothing.
43:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, if you make a mistake, you correct that mistake in the same form in which you made it.
43:54
SPEAKER_01: You don't apologize privately.
43:55
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, if I called you out publicly, then I will apologize publicly.
43:59
SPEAKER_01: And I Unfortunately, I've had to do that a few times, you know.
44:02
SPEAKER_01: But you know, I'm a man yeah, I'm a man of my word.
44:04
SPEAKER_01: And if I if I say something or do something to you in front of people, then I'm gonna apologize in front of those same people.
44:10
SPEAKER_02: So has there been any on record or off-record backdoor apology for the outrage that hit national media and brought the spotlight unnecessarily on you guys?
44:20
SPEAKER_01: No, not at all.
44:21
SPEAKER_01: Um and I've even told had people tell him when he would when he would go to those uh those briefings that he owed all the Board Patrol agents, in particular those horse agents, uh an apology.
44:32
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
44:33
SPEAKER_01: And and he just won't do it.
44:34
unknown: Wow.
44:35
SPEAKER_01: And he's a you know what, and I hate to talk about the guy, but I'm going to.
44:44
SPEAKER_01: He'll tell us one thing in private and then publicly he'll go and slam us.
44:48
SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
44:49
SPEAKER_01: If you don't like me, you don't like me.
44:50
SPEAKER_01: I don't care if you don't like me.
44:51
SPEAKER_01: Um but but don't lie to me about it.
44:54
SPEAKER_01: You know, uh I had a uh an old sergeant would tell me, look, unless I wake up next to you or or you sign my checks, I don't give a shit what you think.
45:03
SPEAKER_01: You know, so you know, if you don't like me, you don't like me.
45:08
SPEAKER_01: I don't care.
45:09
SPEAKER_01: But don't don't lie to me.
45:11
SPEAKER_02: So to twenty-one year old, twenty-two-year-old young man or woman that's looking to serve their country, their state in some form or fashion is looking at the border patrol.
45:25
SPEAKER_02: What would you tell them about a good roadmap, uh good process or a mindset to protect to get into serving their country and and joining the U.S.
45:35
SPEAKER_02: Border Patrol?
45:36
SPEAKER_01: You know, do your homework.
45:38
SPEAKER_01: Do your homework what you want to do.
45:39
SPEAKER_01: Don't get me wrong.
45:40
SPEAKER_01: I I love the Border Patrol.
45:41
SPEAKER_01: I'm one of those guys that that still bleeds green.
45:44
SPEAKER_01: I mean, I love the job.
45:45
SPEAKER_01: It's like being a kid again.
45:46
SPEAKER_01: I just have better choice.
45:48
SPEAKER_01: Um but at the same time, being a little older, a lot older, a little wiser, do your homework.
45:55
SPEAKER_01: Uh, what's gonna give you a better retirement?
45:57
SPEAKER_01: What's gonna take care of you down the road?
45:59
SPEAKER_01: What's your your best career opportunities?
46:01
SPEAKER_01: Uh are you gonna stay in in a certain job or are you gonna try and and and advance through through different avenues, whether it's detective work, whether it's going uh to DEA or the FBI or you know, a Texas Ranger.
46:15
SPEAKER_01: Um, and to be honest with you, as much as I love the patrol, like you know, my my oldest boy is looking to go in law enforcement, and I'm guiding him towards stateside.
46:24
SPEAKER_01: You know, the the dateside stateside has a lot better retirement plan.
46:28
SPEAKER_01: Um so but but do your homework, definitely do your homework.
46:33
SPEAKER_01: There's a ton of federal agencies out there, whether it's Border Patrol, ICE, Tennessee Valley, River Valley, whatever stuff that I mean there there's tons of them.
46:42
SPEAKER_01: And all of them have his pl pluses and all of them have their minuses.
46:45
SPEAKER_01: But just do your uh do your research, do your homework, and hell, if you need a hand, give me a call and I'll I'll help you fill out the damn paperwork.
46:53
SPEAKER_05: Any uh anything you want to say to the members or the uh the state law enforcement guys that are helping out down there?
46:58
SPEAKER_05: I know that you made a comment earlier and I thought was you know kind of fascinating that you're you're embarrassed uh that that the state has to step in and help out Border Patrol because of the administration.
47:07
SPEAKER_05: But the reality is I think all of our members at the border, uh it's an honor to work with you guys because we see the struggles that you guys have.
47:14
SPEAKER_05: And I think some of the stateside guys, and I mean stateside by you know DPS, you know, the local level, sheriffs, deputies, and and police, um they see the struggles that you guys are dealing with with the administration problems, and I'm not speaking for them, but I think that it's an honor to work with you know your organization and and and the and the border patrol agents that are working down there.
47:32
SPEAKER_02: Well, and if the administration doesn't care about our state and Texans, yeah, I think it's cool that by God Texans are gonna go take care of Texans.
47:38
SPEAKER_02: I th that's what in my small mind, that's what it boils down to is if nobody else is gonna take care of us, then there'll be a bunch of Texans that'll go down there and take care of Texans.
47:47
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and and I, for one, and I know my my co-workers, we appreciate people coming out and helping us.
47:53
SPEAKER_01: We really do.
47:54
SPEAKER_01: And I I think the the unsung heroes are the Texas game wardens.
47:57
SPEAKER_01: Because some of those girls guys go out there with really nice boats, and some of them go out with John boats, and and but they get it done out there.
48:04
SPEAKER_01: Um I mean you have DPS out there with those big shamu-looking boats on the river, and then you have this game warden out there getting more done with less.
48:12
SPEAKER_01: We appreciate we appreciate all of them coming down there, whether it's DPS, whether it's uh um law enforcement from around the state, um, EMS, National Guard, whoever.
48:22
SPEAKER_01: Um, we appreciate it.
48:23
SPEAKER_01: We may not say it because we're overwhelmed at times, but damn it.
48:28
SPEAKER_01: We thank you for coming out.
48:29
SPEAKER_01: That's awesome, man.
48:30
SPEAKER_05: Well, we appreciate you coming on, man.
48:31
SPEAKER_05: It's been an honor.
48:32
SPEAKER_05: Um I'm glad to know you.
48:33
SPEAKER_05: I'm glad that we're we started this uh this relationship, this friendship, and this partnership.
48:37
SPEAKER_05: Hopefully we can get you on more.
48:39
SPEAKER_02: So Chris drove up on his own time, four or five hours up to do this.
48:44
SPEAKER_02: Uh it was important to him, it's super important to us, but I can't thank you enough for doing that, man.
48:49
SPEAKER_01: No, and I, you know, I hope you guys have him back on.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: Um and uh once this Title 42 goes away, you guys are gonna come down to the border because that's gonna be a show down there.
48:57
SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it's gonna be a shit show, but it's gonna be a show.
49:00
SPEAKER_01: Can we bring popcorn?
49:01
SPEAKER_01: Oh, you can bring popcorn, bring some chairs, body armor.
49:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, body armor.
49:05
SPEAKER_01: So, man, if you guys come on down, I'll I'll be happy to take you around.
49:08
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
49:09
SPEAKER_02: Episode two will be remote from there.
49:11
SPEAKER_01: Yes, that'd be awesome.
49:12
SPEAKER_05: I'm down.
49:13
SPEAKER_05: I'm down.
49:14
SPEAKER_05: Let's do it.
49:14
SPEAKER_05: All right, we got we're gonna fire off three questions.
49:16
SPEAKER_05: You want to get it kicked off?
49:17
SPEAKER_05: Because I always screw up the second portion of the first question.
49:20
SPEAKER_02: First one is best cop movie or best line from a cop movie.
49:27
SPEAKER_01: Man, I shit, I gotta go with super troopers.
49:30
SPEAKER_05: That's a good one.
49:31
SPEAKER_05: That one's been a few times on the show.
49:33
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, yep.
49:34
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
49:35
SPEAKER_05: All right.
49:37
SPEAKER_05: So he being Border Patrol, he may not, he may not give my answer, but I have faith.
49:42
SPEAKER_05: And I have faith in Chris.
49:44
SPEAKER_05: Go ahead.
49:45
SPEAKER_05: Best patrol vehicle.
49:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, you're talking about four-wheel drive patrol vehicle.
49:52
SPEAKER_02: Well, in your in your arena, what's the best vehicle you've had for your for your to carry out your duty?
50:00
SPEAKER_01: The old blazers.
50:01
SPEAKER_01: I bet those are nice.
50:02
SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like the Chevy Blazer.
50:05
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, not too old, but you know.
50:07
SPEAKER_01: Right.
50:09
SPEAKER_02: Two-door, four-wheel drive.
50:12
SPEAKER_01: You know, I'd I'd prefer a two-door, but uh, I think we're kind of stuck with the with the four.
50:17
SPEAKER_01: Well, I guess they at the time now they were taught now.
50:19
SPEAKER_01: You know, I got you.
50:20
SPEAKER_05: Yeah, because if you get two or you don't have to transport, so that's always a plus.
50:23
SPEAKER_01: Well, and I got an EMT ride now, so I don't have to transport, which is it's just perfect.
50:28
SPEAKER_01: That's nice.
50:28
SPEAKER_01: I tell them, uh, you know, I wish I could, but I'm not okay, you know, sorry.
50:32
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
50:33
SPEAKER_02: Best cop whiskey, and if you don't drink whiskey or don't drink alcohol, best drink, what gets you through?
50:38
SPEAKER_02: What's what's Chris Cabrera's drink?
50:40
SPEAKER_01: You know, I I got two.
50:42
SPEAKER_01: It would either be uh a McCallens uh 12 or 18 year or a Johnny Walker black.
50:50
SPEAKER_02: Black.
50:50
SPEAKER_02: Can't go wrong with that.
50:52
SPEAKER_05: Well man, again, we can't we can't thank you now for driving up.
50:55
SPEAKER_05: We've enjoyed it.
50:55
SPEAKER_05: You will damn sure see me and Clint again.
50:57
SPEAKER_05: Hopefully, episode two will be on the board.
50:59
SPEAKER_05: Is that a threader promise?
51:00
SPEAKER_05: That's what it depends on how you ask.
51:03
SPEAKER_05: So uh again, it's been a pleasure.
51:05
SPEAKER_05: Uh you guys like, subscribe, and download the episodes because the algorithm uh on our bus sprout stuff, we've got different platforms with Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Prime, and then when you download those uh those episodes, it uh it helps it helps Clint keep a job.
51:21
SPEAKER_05: So uh I like him, I love him, and uh he needs to be employed.
51:25
SPEAKER_05: So if you hit that subscribe button, uh maybe we can get keep Clint his job.
51:30
SPEAKER_02: Keep Chris and all of our folks serving along the border.
51:33
SPEAKER_02: Absolutely prayers, keep them lifted up as they continue fighting for the safety and uh of communities, local communities and families and ranches.
51:43
SPEAKER_02: Actually, the national security of our country is at risk.
51:45
SPEAKER_02: Yep.
51:46
SPEAKER_02: Uh so keep keep all those folks in your thoughts and prayers as they keep serving.
51:52
SPEAKER_04: Yep.
51:52
SPEAKER_04: That's it, guys.
51:53
SPEAKER_04: That's a wrap.
51:54
SPEAKER_04: As always, God bless you and uh may God bless Texas.