Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / BOMBSHELL: KOHBERGER BUYS DICK'S BLACK BALACLAVA, SAME MASK DRAWN BY SURVIVOR

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BOMBSHELL: KOHBERGER BUYS DICK'S BLACK BALACLAVA, SAME MASK DRAWN BY SURVIVOR · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.
0:06
Speaker 2: A bombshell in the Brian Coburger defense. Did Brian Coburger
0:12
Speaker 2: actually buy a Dix Sporting Good black balaklava?
0:16
Speaker 1: Why do I care?
0:18
Speaker 2: Because it's the exact same mask drawn by the survivor
0:25
Speaker 2: witness who lived through the murders that night. This as
0:31
Speaker 2: Coburger fights tooth and nail to suppress a twelve page paper.
0:36
Speaker 1: Why he wrote the paper in school?
0:41
Speaker 2: And it describes multiple murders, including the murder of a
0:46
Speaker 2: white female with what else a knife, even including details
0:52
Speaker 2: that she, the white female victim, would dig her fingernails
0:58
Speaker 2: into her killer's skin and likely reveal DNA too close
1:05
Speaker 2: for comfort. Coburger, I, Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories.
1:10
Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us.
1:16
Speaker 3: Location of emergency, of the emergency.
1:25
Speaker 2: One that nine to one one call brings us all
1:32
Speaker 2: back to the reality of what happened to four beautiful
1:37
Speaker 2: University Idaho students slaughtered, as some say, butchered in their
1:43
Speaker 2: own beds. And now the man charged with all four
1:48
Speaker 2: murders is fighting tooth and claw to keep one tiny
1:54
Speaker 2: Dick's Sporting Good purchase away from a jury. Why I
2:00
Speaker 2: think I know why listen.
2:02
Speaker 4: No one is answering. I'm really confused right now.
2:06
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, what the Xanna was wearing all black? I'm
2:09
Speaker 1: freaking out right now.
2:10
Speaker 4: No, it's like a ski mask.
2:12
Speaker 1: Almost shut the up. Actually, like he had.
2:16
Speaker 4: Something over his forehead and mouth. Bethany, I'm not kidding.
2:20
Speaker 4: I'm so freaked out, So Amne. My phone is going
2:23
Speaker 4: to die.
2:24
Speaker 1: Come to my room. Run down here.
2:26
Speaker 4: I'm screwed though, Yeah, I know, but it's better than
2:29
Speaker 4: being alone.
2:29
Speaker 2: What you just heard is the contents of text messages
2:34
Speaker 2: that were exchanged between the two survivors that were in
2:38
Speaker 2: the scene of the murder, that were there that night
2:40
Speaker 2: their four roommates were murdered. That's between Dylan Mortenson and
2:46
Speaker 2: Bethany Funk. Now, Dylan Mortenson is describing he had something
2:52
Speaker 2: over his forehead and mouth. I'm not kidding. I'm so
2:57
Speaker 2: freaked out, She goes on.
3:01
Speaker 1: Later, how can I say this?
3:04
Speaker 2: Okay, you've seen on TV or crime shows, a movie
3:10
Speaker 2: maybe where the witnesses is drawing, helped to draw a composite,
3:16
Speaker 2: and they go, oh, no, the nose is too long,
3:18
Speaker 2: the ears are too big, the eyebrowser this, the mouth
3:21
Speaker 2: is different. She draws with her own hands the balaklava
3:30
Speaker 2: that the intruder was wearing that night. I guess they
3:35
Speaker 2: are fighting to keep that sketch and that purchase out.
3:40
Speaker 2: Joining me in all star panel to make sense of
3:42
Speaker 2: what we know right now, Coberger trying to suppress a
3:46
Speaker 2: slew of evidentiary items.
3:50
Speaker 1: Listen.
3:51
Speaker 5: A recent CORD filing shows that defense attorneys want Venmo,
3:55
Speaker 5: PayPal and bank records for the accused quadruple killer blocked
3:58
Speaker 5: from CORD. While the exact content of these records are
4:02
Speaker 5: not discussed, the filing mentions a purchase from under Armour
4:06
Speaker 5: on June twenty four to twenty twenty two, five months
4:09
Speaker 5: before the murders, and a purchase from Dick's Sporting Goods
4:13
Speaker 5: in the same month. The records likely also show Coburger's
4:16
Speaker 5: purchase of the Kbar knife suspected to be the weapon
4:20
Speaker 5: used in the murders.
4:21
Speaker 2: We were trying to determine what is it about these
4:26
Speaker 2: purchases that they want so desperately to suppress.
4:30
Speaker 1: Oh, did I mention a replacement knife?
4:34
Speaker 6: While a court filing last week confirmed that Coburger purchased
4:37
Speaker 6: a k Bar knife and sharpener eight months prior to
4:40
Speaker 6: the murders. A new filing alleges that Colberger's Amazon click
4:44
Speaker 6: history also proves he was searching for a replacement in
4:47
Speaker 6: the weeks after the murders. Defense attorneys may be planning
4:51
Speaker 6: to counter the evidence with arguments that Amazon's algorithm simply
4:55
Speaker 6: suggested an item based on his previous purchase history.
5:00
Speaker 2: Times you just have so much evidence you don't know
5:03
Speaker 2: which way to go. Straight out to Chris McDonough joining me.
5:08
Speaker 2: You know him well, I found him on the interview Room.
5:10
Speaker 2: He's the star of that on YouTube. But more important,
5:14
Speaker 2: he's the director of the Cold Case Foundation and he
5:17
Speaker 2: has worked over three hundred homicides. You first wave the
5:23
Speaker 2: red flag about Amazon purchases. I guess you've heard about
5:26
Speaker 2: the balaklava. I'm going to circle back to that. But
5:29
Speaker 2: you went through an intense discussion and analysis of purchases
5:35
Speaker 2: on Amazon, and now we know why Chris McDonough the
5:40
Speaker 2: replacement knife. That's why they wanted that suppressed so desperately.
5:48
Speaker 2: He leaves a crime scene. According to police, he's driving
5:53
Speaker 2: that long, circuitous route that you and I have both
5:55
Speaker 2: driven in the middle of the night, no street lines.
5:58
Speaker 1: I nearly ran off the road three times.
6:00
Speaker 2: Then he goes, well, well what what where is the
6:06
Speaker 2: knife sheet?
6:07
Speaker 1: So what does he do? It's the clicks.
6:10
Speaker 2: You said it first, Chris mcdona. He doesn't want the
6:14
Speaker 2: jury to know he was looking for a replacement knife.
6:18
Speaker 2: He had already bought a knife a sheet and now
6:21
Speaker 2: we know a knife sharpener.
6:24
Speaker 1: That's why they don't want us to know about the clicks.
6:26
Speaker 7: Chris, absolutely, Nancy. And what's interesting about this is for
6:32
Speaker 7: some reason, they were on top of that almost within
6:36
Speaker 7: two weeks after the homicides, and they you know, they
6:43
Speaker 7: served a search warrant in November twenty in November twenty sixth,
6:49
Speaker 7: and the search warrant returned December eighth of twenty twenty two.
6:53
Speaker 7: And so the defense here is been working full time,
6:58
Speaker 7: you know, to try to suppress those clicks, because that
7:02
Speaker 7: is just damning evidence. And you're right, he then went
7:07
Speaker 7: back to try to order a second looks like, you know,
7:10
Speaker 7: knife and or sheath as kind of the old bait
7:14
Speaker 7: and switch. If the authorities were onto it once he
7:19
Speaker 7: discovered he actually lost if he's the guy, of course,
7:23
Speaker 7: if he lost that you know sheath at the crime scene.
7:26
Speaker 1: Right hey, you know, Chris, McDonald.
7:29
Speaker 2: When I was watching you on your show the interview Room,
7:33
Speaker 2: you and your guests were going on and on about
7:35
Speaker 2: the analytical data of Amazon. I'm like, where is this going?
7:39
Speaker 2: I forced myself to listen to it. Of course I
7:43
Speaker 2: was interested in it because I love any type of evidence.
7:45
Speaker 2: If I don't even understand it at the moment, I
7:48
Speaker 2: sense that it's important. And I could tell by what
7:51
Speaker 2: you were saying those cliques that data was going to
7:54
Speaker 2: be very important because it didn't necessarily result in a purchase.
7:58
Speaker 2: But he's looking to re place the sheath that he
8:02
Speaker 2: left behind. Okay, hold on. Joe Scott Morgan's joining me,
8:06
Speaker 2: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My
8:10
Speaker 2: Feet on Amazon, star of Bodybags with Joe Scott Morgan.
8:14
Speaker 2: But for my purposes, he's a death investigator that has
8:17
Speaker 2: investigated over one thousand death scenes. Joe Scott, you have
8:22
Speaker 2: been taking a very close look at that Kbart knife,
8:26
Speaker 2: and I'm wondering in your analysis, could you buy the
8:30
Speaker 2: sheath separately or does it come with the knife?
8:34
Speaker 8: It comes with the knife. Actually, my beautiful bride, God
8:38
Speaker 8: bless her, actually bought this knife for me and surprised
8:43
Speaker 8: me with it, and it's not normally the type of
8:47
Speaker 8: gifts that you get from someone who cares about you.
8:49
Speaker 8: But she knew that we had been covering this case
8:52
Speaker 8: and she wanted me to have this just so that
8:55
Speaker 8: I could have it and feel the weight of it.
8:58
Speaker 8: This sort of thing, and it comes with the sheath nancy,
9:02
Speaker 8: So if you were to purchase a sheath separate, it
9:05
Speaker 8: would have to come from the manufacturer. You would have
9:08
Speaker 8: to order it specifically, or go out to some vendor
9:11
Speaker 8: out there somewhere that could probably furnish you with maybe
9:15
Speaker 8: a knockoff. But it's certainly not the original kbar knife.
9:19
Speaker 1: You know.
9:19
Speaker 2: I asked my husband for a flamethrower for Christmas and
9:22
Speaker 2: he didn't give me one. I'm going to use this
9:24
Speaker 2: as an example of the perfect gift.
9:27
Speaker 1: Let me think this through. Let me think this through.
9:29
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum is joining me, a Cold Case Investigative Research Institute, founder,
9:35
Speaker 2: forensic expert and star of Zone seven podcast.
9:38
Speaker 1: Cheryl.
9:39
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see what those cliques are. I
9:43
Speaker 2: haven't even gotten to the balaclava yet. Okay, I'm getting there,
9:47
Speaker 2: but the clicks, the clicks, I'm like it's a Rubric's cuban.
9:51
Speaker 2: I'm a Ruber's cuban. I'm trying to make it fit
9:53
Speaker 2: right now. Do you think, Cheryl, that he was clicking
9:57
Speaker 2: through trying to find a replacement sheath or was he
10:02
Speaker 2: trying to find out if he could buy it separately
10:04
Speaker 2: from the knife. Was he going to buy a whole
10:06
Speaker 2: new knife and a sheaf to go?
10:07
Speaker 1: Look here it is, there's not any blood on it.
10:10
Speaker 1: What do you think, Cheryl.
10:12
Speaker 9: That's exactly what he was attempting to do. In my opinion,
10:16
Speaker 9: he needed a replacement because the murder weapon. He had
10:19
Speaker 9: to get rid of it because it was saturated with blood.
10:22
Speaker 9: He knew he had lost or left the sheep behind.
10:26
Speaker 9: He had to have a replacement, no doubt about it.
10:34
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace in the last hours, A.
10:41
Speaker 2: Brian coburger purchased at Dick's Sporting Goods is offering bombshell
10:47
Speaker 2: evidence in this case.
10:49
Speaker 1: You know Greg Morris joining me.
10:52
Speaker 2: He is a high profile lawyer that's tried more cases,
10:56
Speaker 2: probably than he can count. Greg Morris partner at Being Morse,
11:03
Speaker 2: author of the Untested on Amazon. Greg, I know how
11:09
Speaker 2: you and your friends in the defense bar.
11:14
Speaker 1: Love to discredit an eyewitness.
11:16
Speaker 2: In fact, it's so commonly done it's laid out in
11:20
Speaker 2: black and white in the criminal Code as if it's law.
11:25
Speaker 2: The ways to attack an eyewitness? Or do you wear glasses?
11:29
Speaker 2: Were you wearing them that night? How far away were
11:32
Speaker 2: you from the scene, what was the lighting? Were you distracted?
11:35
Speaker 2: Were you inebriated? Were you on prescription drugs or anything else?
11:38
Speaker 2: It's like one, two, three, four it it's by rote.
11:43
Speaker 1: But what about this? What about this?
11:46
Speaker 2: With no urging, no urging, no tutorial. You have the survivor.
11:55
Speaker 2: It's Dylan Mortenson and she's texting that not eight that night,
12:01
Speaker 2: she has.
12:02
Speaker 1: Just seen the intruder.
12:03
Speaker 2: She cracks her door and looks out and she sees him,
12:08
Speaker 2: and I guess she shut it and moved back. She
12:11
Speaker 2: is the witness that describes the intruder dressed in dark clothing,
12:14
Speaker 2: tall white male with bushy eyebrows that night. She says, basically,
12:21
Speaker 2: at the time of the murders, he had something over
12:25
Speaker 2: his forehead and mouth I'm not kidding, I'm so freaked out.
12:29
Speaker 2: Then she draws, let's take a look at her drawing.
12:32
Speaker 2: I sent you a picture of it, Greg because I
12:35
Speaker 2: knew it would send chills down your spine. She draws
12:42
Speaker 2: a bottle clava and guests, who buys a botta clava?
12:48
Speaker 2: Do you have a bottle clava?
12:49
Speaker 10: Do you?
12:50
Speaker 1: I'm just curious. I don't, do you. I have three
12:53
Speaker 1: of them, don't you? So I have three of them?
12:55
Speaker 11: Yes, very common thing to buy, especially in Idaho for
12:59
Speaker 11: the winter where the there is cold.
13:01
Speaker 1: The way to.
13:01
Speaker 11: Attack this is the commonality of it. I saw the
13:06
Speaker 11: drawing she made, the person made. It's a common thing.
13:11
Speaker 10: It's nothing unique about it.
13:13
Speaker 11: And the way to challenge this, to try to keep
13:16
Speaker 11: it out, which is very difficult, is that you're going
13:19
Speaker 11: to show this is a common purchase by people. There's
13:22
Speaker 11: no linking it to the case. There's no linking this
13:24
Speaker 11: specific one coburger bought to this case. So it's a
13:28
Speaker 11: generic mask that probably hundreds of thousands of people have
13:31
Speaker 11: purchased from Dix over the years, maybe millions. So that's
13:36
Speaker 11: how you challenge it. Very common. I've dealt with this
13:38
Speaker 11: with guns. When a thirty eight is used to kill
13:41
Speaker 11: someone and there's no ballistics, and they find a thirty
13:43
Speaker 11: eight at the suspect house, you challenge it on its
13:46
Speaker 11: commonality that it's prejudicial to introduce it and link it
13:49
Speaker 11: to the defendant.
13:51
Speaker 2: And and you mad more, well done, very well done.
13:55
Speaker 1: Let me throw this at you.
13:57
Speaker 2: What about the purchase of a k bar knife and
13:59
Speaker 2: a shape and a ball of clava?
14:02
Speaker 1: Hit me?
14:03
Speaker 11: Well, Nancy, I've been doing this for twenty five years
14:06
Speaker 11: and my job has gotten much harder. This is a
14:09
Speaker 11: criminology major, so I would flip the mode of which
14:12
Speaker 11: is pretty clear for the prosecution. He was doing the
14:15
Speaker 11: Leopolden mog type thing, that he knew about it and
14:20
Speaker 11: decided to buy this knife afterwards for his studies or something.
14:25
Speaker 2: Wait what rewind rewind sadly, I'm going to hold you
14:29
Speaker 2: to the facts. Sidney Summer joining me, Crime Stories, investigative reporter, Sydney.
14:35
Speaker 2: He's half right and half wrong. He's right about a
14:40
Speaker 2: balla clava. Let's just say, in Idaho, maybe many people
14:43
Speaker 2: have them to ski. But then let's throw in the
14:46
Speaker 2: clicking for a replacement knife and sheath.
14:50
Speaker 1: But he said that was after the murders.
14:53
Speaker 2: But isn't it true, Sidney Summer, that Coburger purchased a
14:57
Speaker 2: k bar knife exactly like the one that was used
15:00
Speaker 2: in the murders based on the sheath that was left.
15:03
Speaker 1: Behind far prior to the murders.
15:07
Speaker 2: In fact, I recall he bought the knife and the
15:09
Speaker 2: sheath back in March of twenty twenty two, I mean
15:14
Speaker 2: eight months before the murders.
15:16
Speaker 10: Yes, Nancy, that's quite a long time to have that
15:19
Speaker 10: knife in your possession before doing this, and the balaklava
15:23
Speaker 10: was purchased even further back.
15:26
Speaker 1: The timing, Sydney.
15:27
Speaker 2: The timing is so important because, based on my research,
15:32
Speaker 2: he made the Dick's purchase of the Balla clava eleven
15:36
Speaker 2: months before, on jan ten, twenty two. He makes the
15:43
Speaker 2: knife sheath purchase eight months before March twenty twenty two.
15:50
Speaker 2: We also have, I don't know if it's going to
15:52
Speaker 2: come into evidence or not, the purchase of one of
15:54
Speaker 2: those dicky outfits which there you go, which you could
15:59
Speaker 2: very easily.
16:00
Speaker 1: Just zip down and get out of it and then
16:03
Speaker 1: throw it away.
16:05
Speaker 2: Then we've got the clicking and attempt to purchase of
16:09
Speaker 2: a replacement knife in sheath after the murders. Okay, do
16:14
Speaker 2: I have those dates correct? Because Morse is right you
16:17
Speaker 2: can fight back on the Bolla clava, Yeah, I get it,
16:21
Speaker 2: But can you fight back on the Bolla clava that
16:24
Speaker 2: the witness describes identical to that purchase, the knife, the sheath,
16:32
Speaker 2: the Dickey's uniform, They replacement knife, the replacement sheath.
16:37
Speaker 1: I mean it's adding up Sydney.
16:40
Speaker 10: Absolutely, Nancy. It's very overwhelming, and the defense is fighting
16:44
Speaker 10: tooth and nail to keep all of this out. Their
16:48
Speaker 10: latest arguments. Just last night got the Amazon account is
16:52
Speaker 10: shared by Coberger's family members.
16:56
Speaker 3: Tell me exactly what's going on.
16:58
Speaker 6: One of the roommates's pass off and she's strong class.
17:03
Speaker 1: Oh and they tell some men in their house.
17:05
Speaker 10: Ok.
17:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, did you see the video of two of the
17:10
Speaker 2: victims at the grub truck. It was late in the night,
17:14
Speaker 2: the morning going into the morning hours that they were
17:17
Speaker 2: murdered in their own beds. For some reason, Brian Coburger's
17:22
Speaker 2: defense team is trying to suppress this and a lot
17:25
Speaker 2: of other video which we're going to get to.
17:29
Speaker 1: I believe much.
17:30
Speaker 2: Of that video is going to show his vehicle en
17:33
Speaker 2: route to the murder scene. But can I just comment
17:38
Speaker 2: for our guests, shopping lists are murder. That's the general
17:44
Speaker 2: consensus when it comes to Brian Coberger. We've been talking
17:46
Speaker 2: about the Amazon clicks. We've been talking about the exporting good.
17:53
Speaker 1: It goes on and on.
17:56
Speaker 2: But when you don't know a horse, look at his
18:00
Speaker 2: track record. I believe we're going to find many other
18:03
Speaker 2: items in Coburgers records he's trying to suppress.
18:06
Speaker 1: Isn't this right?
18:07
Speaker 2: Sydney summer, PayPal purchases, Venmo purchases, Amazon purchases and searches
18:16
Speaker 2: and much more. There's going to be more that we
18:20
Speaker 2: find that is damning in Brian Coberger's shopping list.
18:24
Speaker 10: I think that's absolutely true, Nancy. They still have not
18:27
Speaker 10: unsealed any information, any reasoning as to why all of
18:32
Speaker 10: Coburger's financial records are relevant to the case and what
18:36
Speaker 10: evidence they will produce. The defense has made a small
18:39
Speaker 10: comment that it's supposed to show his spending habits, but
18:43
Speaker 10: other than that, we don't know why all of these
18:46
Speaker 10: bank records have been pulled.
18:47
Speaker 2: I guarantee you we're going to find cleaning supplies. Joining me,
18:51
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, forensic expert and founder of the Cold Case
18:56
Speaker 2: Research Institute. I'm sure you recall our investigation into Brian
19:00
Speaker 2: Walsh after the murder and I believe dismemberment of his
19:03
Speaker 2: wife Anna, her body has never been found.
19:05
Speaker 1: Listen to what he.
19:06
Speaker 2: Bought at Low's eryl five five gallon buckets, a handsaw,
19:12
Speaker 2: forty eight cherry cloth towels, a full iti wreck, full
19:18
Speaker 2: coverage suit, shoe guards, mop, a cutting tool called snips,
19:24
Speaker 2: two hundred disposable rags, trash bags, Murphy oil soap.
19:27
Speaker 1: Then he goes to another store. Yeah, let's sprinkle it around.
19:30
Speaker 2: Oh, there he is looking at that. That was the
19:35
Speaker 2: purchase at Low's. And there he is at CBS. He
19:39
Speaker 2: buys thirteen different types of hydrogen peroxide. Then he goes
19:44
Speaker 2: to stopping shop, three sixty four ounce jugs of ammonia.
19:47
Speaker 1: He goes to home.
19:48
Speaker 2: Goods, three area rugs and scented candles. I believe one
19:53
Speaker 2: of his searches was how long till the body starts
19:55
Speaker 2: to smell?
19:56
Speaker 1: At home depot? Just to round it out, three.
19:59
Speaker 2: Five gallon bucket kits with leak proof lids, a hatchet,
20:02
Speaker 2: plastic sheeting, twenty four pounds of baking soda, and another
20:07
Speaker 2: Tyrek suit. Wow, talk about some clean up, Cheryl McCollum.
20:14
Speaker 2: That was Brian walshon I'm very curious why with all
20:17
Speaker 2: of his analysis, you know, there's just nothing like the
20:19
Speaker 2: real thing, right, Cheryl, You can study about it all
20:22
Speaker 2: the way through your PhD, but when it comes right
20:25
Speaker 2: down to committing mass murder details, the devil is in
20:29
Speaker 2: the details, Cheryl McCollum.
20:30
Speaker 9: Always, and Nancy, this is going to go straight into
20:33
Speaker 9: the prosecution's timeline. You know, you may look at Israel
20:37
Speaker 9: Key's list and think, oh, this guy's going camping, till
20:40
Speaker 9: you know how to read it. When you look at
20:43
Speaker 9: the purchases and these searches, those are really going to
20:47
Speaker 9: be critical. And you've got a knife with the sheet
20:49
Speaker 9: and the mask. It's not just you know, something briskian.
20:54
Speaker 9: And when you're looking at Coburger specifically and the eye
20:58
Speaker 9: witness that he left alive in her drawing, this you know,
21:03
Speaker 9: overall shopping list is a roadmap to his plotting and
21:08
Speaker 9: planning of this murder, and these things are going to
21:10
Speaker 9: be weaved into this timeline, just like his cell phone
21:14
Speaker 9: pings and his traffic ticket.
21:15
Speaker 2: You know, Doctor Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst, I believe that there
21:19
Speaker 2: are certain personalities and this does not rise to an
21:22
Speaker 2: insanity defense. They can't help, but very compulsively, some would
21:28
Speaker 2: say anal compulsively make plans. I'm sure you recall it's
21:31
Speaker 2: in your jurisdiction. That's why I save this for you.
21:34
Speaker 2: Robert Blake, who absolutely orchestrated the murder of his wife,
21:38
Speaker 2: Bonnie Lee Bakley. Listen to his shopping list. Now, I
21:43
Speaker 2: got this from the prosecutor's complaint against him. He had
21:47
Speaker 2: his hitch person called Well purchase a grizzly shopping list.
21:54
Speaker 2: It included two shovels, a small sledge, a crowbar, a
21:59
Speaker 2: twenty five cow gun, old rugs, duct tape, draino pool, acid,
22:05
Speaker 2: and lie and he wrote it down in a list. Bethany,
22:11
Speaker 2: I wonder you've no coburger had to make a list.
22:15
Speaker 2: Warning he's innocent until proving guilty. But can they not
22:18
Speaker 2: help themselves?
22:19
Speaker 12: Nancy, you talked about the meticulous planning, and as I've
22:22
Speaker 12: said so many times before on your show, sociopaths, and
22:26
Speaker 12: in particular psychopaths, they're the same as socia paths, but
22:29
Speaker 12: you have the addition of cruelty. In terms of their personality,
22:33
Speaker 12: they are very empty and internally they don't get excited
22:37
Speaker 12: by the things you and I do, and because of that,
22:40
Speaker 12: they use cruelty to get sexual excitement.
22:44
Speaker 1: Nancy, listen that Robert Blake.
22:45
Speaker 12: It would have been so much cheaper just to get
22:47
Speaker 12: a divorce, right, I mean, you know, just to send
22:49
Speaker 12: her on her mary Way. But no, he wanted to
22:52
Speaker 12: He wanted her off this earth. He didn't want her
22:55
Speaker 12: anywhere around. That's a little bit different from Brian Coburger,
22:59
Speaker 12: who I believe actually this was very thrilling for him.
23:03
Speaker 12: So I think what we're going to find on his
23:05
Speaker 12: computer is SNM porn, rape videos, maybe child pornography. I'm
23:11
Speaker 12: going to be very interested in what motivates him sexually,
23:15
Speaker 12: what we see on his computer in his digital life,
23:18
Speaker 12: and that how that also links him to the crime.
23:21
Speaker 2: We also know about Natalie Keepers and David Eisenhower plotting
23:26
Speaker 2: the murder of a little twelve or thirteen year old
23:28
Speaker 2: girl in Nicole Level and they go to I think
23:32
Speaker 2: a barbecue joint and make a list of all the
23:36
Speaker 2: cleaning supplies and items they're going to need to kill
23:41
Speaker 2: the little girl and to clean up her body was
23:43
Speaker 2: found naked on the side of the road. It had
23:46
Speaker 2: been wiped down. There's Nicole wiped down with wet wipes.
23:52
Speaker 2: So you know, Sidney Sumner, the shopping list is damning.
24:00
Speaker 1: Coburn.
24:01
Speaker 10: Absolutely, there's just no way around this, Nancy. It's information
24:05
Speaker 10: that's been speculated or known for a long time, and
24:08
Speaker 10: it's really interesting to see it coming together in the
24:11
Speaker 10: States case, because.
24:13
Speaker 1: How do you explain that.
24:15
Speaker 10: I mean, I was talking about this with my fiance
24:18
Speaker 10: last night. He has a balaklava for hunting when it's dark.
24:22
Speaker 10: You want to keep the rest of your face as
24:25
Speaker 10: dark as possible when you're sitting in a blind hunting
24:28
Speaker 10: a deer. What other reasonable explanation do you have for
24:31
Speaker 10: a babba clava? We said skiing earlier, Idaho does get cold.
24:36
Speaker 10: But I asked him, would you ever wear this in public?
24:39
Speaker 10: If you weren't doing something that required it, if you
24:43
Speaker 10: weren't skiing, if you weren't hunting, would you ever wear
24:45
Speaker 10: this out? And his flat answer is no. Why would
24:48
Speaker 10: I ever have a reason to own this, to use
24:51
Speaker 10: this on a regular basis, not for that purpose, She's not.
25:08
Speaker 2: In addition to damning shopping lists indicated by clicks on Amazon,
25:14
Speaker 2: Dick Sporting good.
25:15
Speaker 1: At under Armour.
25:17
Speaker 2: We don't know why the Defense wants to suppress purchases
25:21
Speaker 2: at under Armour yet, but we'll find out. In addition
25:25
Speaker 2: to that, the defense is fighting tooth and claw to
25:29
Speaker 2: suppress a twelve page assignment paper that Coburger wrote.
25:35
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty and more listen.
25:38
Speaker 6: In arguments against its inclusion, the defense reveals that prosecutors
25:42
Speaker 6: plan to enter into evidence records from Colberger's graduate studies
25:46
Speaker 6: in psychology at the Sales University. The filing says they
25:50
Speaker 6: have received discovery including Colberger's school calendar, written coursework, testing, emails,
25:56
Speaker 6: and syllabi from his time as a master's student, and
26:00
Speaker 6: the attorneys failed to see its relevance. As part of
26:03
Speaker 6: his thesis, Colberger worked with professors to develop a survey
26:08
Speaker 6: exploring how emotions influence a criminal's decision making during the
26:13
Speaker 6: commission of a violent crime.
26:15
Speaker 2: It's not just the creepy survey he sent out to
26:19
Speaker 2: violent felons, asking them about how they felt at the
26:22
Speaker 2: time of the crime, what went through their mind, how
26:24
Speaker 2: did they pick their target, how did they get out,
26:27
Speaker 2: how did they plan the whole thing?
26:28
Speaker 1: Very very detailed questioning.
26:30
Speaker 2: But now a twelve page assignment paper has emerged and
26:36
Speaker 2: the defense is fighting to keep it suppressed away from
26:41
Speaker 2: the jury City summer.
26:42
Speaker 1: What is it as.
26:43
Speaker 10: So this comes as a filing from the state rebutting
26:47
Speaker 10: the defense's recent Hey, you've given us all of this discovery.
26:51
Speaker 10: It's so much information. What are you trying to.
26:55
Speaker 2: Do with this?
26:55
Speaker 10: It has to be kept out because I can't figure
26:58
Speaker 10: out what you were going to use in court. So
27:02
Speaker 10: the state came back and said, here is exactly what
27:05
Speaker 10: we plan to use in court and filed this twelve
27:08
Speaker 10: page assignment from Coburger that he completed as a master's
27:11
Speaker 10: student at the Sales University. In this assignment, it's unclear
27:16
Speaker 10: exactly what the instructions are if this was a scenario
27:21
Speaker 10: that the professor came up with. But Coburger's job was
27:24
Speaker 10: to go through every single step to secure and process
27:29
Speaker 10: that crime scene for evidence. So it's a list and
27:32
Speaker 10: list and lists of bullet points of what needs to
27:35
Speaker 10: be done in what order, what tools you need, what
27:38
Speaker 10: to look for. So it's very detailed, and it's coincidentally
27:43
Speaker 10: a stabbing.
27:44
Speaker 2: Prosecutors want to use a school paper that allegedly details
27:47
Speaker 2: a crime SAYN, very similar to the crime SAYN in
27:53
Speaker 2: the Idaho Sligh. Now listen to this, Cheryl McCollum. He
28:00
Speaker 2: states in the paper as if he were processing the scene,
28:05
Speaker 2: I should make sure to swab under her, the white
28:10
Speaker 2: female murder victim, her fingernails to see if DNA of
28:15
Speaker 2: the offender is there. She likely dug into his skin,
28:22
Speaker 2: he wrote, in excruciating details. He describes how first responders
28:27
Speaker 2: should handle the crime scene, using as an example, what
28:33
Speaker 2: else a deceased white female murder weapon a knife?
28:39
Speaker 10: Yep.
28:40
Speaker 9: This is absolutely going to be something that the prosecution
28:44
Speaker 9: is going to highlight because it shows he had knowledge,
28:48
Speaker 9: He had knowledgeab where DNA could be found and located
28:51
Speaker 9: on a murder victim. And then they're going to show
28:54
Speaker 9: the purchase of the clothing and the mask and gloves
28:59
Speaker 9: and other items to prevent that very thing from happening.
29:02
Speaker 1: What about it?
29:03
Speaker 2: Straight back to you, Greg Morse, how do you defeat
29:08
Speaker 2: bringing this in? Its basically a blueprint of the murders?
29:12
Speaker 11: So this is a common issue today.
29:13
Speaker 1: It deals with rap lyrics.
29:15
Speaker 11: The most recent case is Alana's Vus, where rap lyrics
29:18
Speaker 11: are allowed to come in and I think the paper
29:20
Speaker 11: the defense has a really hard time. Their main argument
29:24
Speaker 11: would be that there's no crime that occurred when the
29:28
Speaker 11: paper was written, that it was after the crime so
29:32
Speaker 11: in the rap lyric cases, the lyrics talk about a
29:35
Speaker 11: crime that already occurred and specifically, and that's how the
29:39
Speaker 11: prosecutors are getting this in. So I would defend this
29:42
Speaker 11: on it's irrelevant. It happened before the crime, years before.
29:47
Speaker 11: It was for a class that he was author, you know,
29:51
Speaker 11: asked to write this paper. It doesn't provide any direct
29:54
Speaker 11: evidence to the crimes, but it's a very hard it's
29:57
Speaker 11: going to be very hard for the defense to challenge relevance.
30:01
Speaker 1: Relevance.
30:03
Speaker 2: He describes a white female victim at a murder scene
30:07
Speaker 2: digging her nails into her killer, and that an EMT
30:13
Speaker 2: or a scene processor like Cheryl McCollum should get fingernail
30:17
Speaker 2: clippings from the victim for potential DNA.
30:21
Speaker 1: That's why it's relevant. Listen.
30:24
Speaker 3: Brian Coberger's defense team has revealed a major curveball for
30:28
Speaker 3: his upcoming trial. A newly unsealed court filing discloses that
30:32
Speaker 3: investigators found three unknown profiles from DNA underneath victim Medicine
30:37
Speaker 3: Mogen's fingernails. Clippings from Mogan's left hand unearthed the samples,
30:41
Speaker 3: but testing has not determined who they belonged to. Comparisons
30:44
Speaker 3: of the profiles to Coburger's DNA were inconclusive. The accused
30:48
Speaker 3: quadruple killer has not been confirmed or excluded as a source.
30:59
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.
31:05
Speaker 13: The defense also wants almost all video evidence tossed, claiming
31:08
Speaker 13: there's no way they can review it in time for trial.
31:11
Speaker 13: At the crux of their argument is possibly a key
31:13
Speaker 13: piece of evidence, footage from a nearby apartment complex on
31:16
Speaker 13: Linda Lane just after four am November thirteen, twenty twenty two.
31:20
Speaker 13: The footage shows a white sedan outside eleven twenty two
31:23
Speaker 13: King Road. However, in its raw form, that footage alone
31:26
Speaker 13: is twelve hours long, and defense attorneys say it will
31:29
Speaker 13: be impossible for them to pinpoint the relevant clips.
31:32
Speaker 1: Okay, that's total bs.
31:34
Speaker 2: In many cases, especially when you have something like a wiretap.
31:38
Speaker 1: Or a stakeout, that video or audio can go on
31:42
Speaker 1: for hours and hours and hours.
31:44
Speaker 2: That's why you're getting paid to listen to it and
31:47
Speaker 2: figure out what, if anything, is relevant. Hello, Ann Taylor,
31:52
Speaker 2: that's your job. Quit whining. But let's talk about the
31:56
Speaker 2: video itself, specifically video from a nearby apartment at Linda Lane.
32:01
Speaker 2: Straight out to Chris mcdunna joining me, veteran homicide investigator,
32:07
Speaker 2: star of the Interview Room on YouTube. Chris, you and
32:10
Speaker 2: I have trumped through that neighborhood now, I don't even
32:13
Speaker 2: know how many hours, and I noticed I didn't understand
32:18
Speaker 2: the relevance of it, how close all of the buildings
32:21
Speaker 2: are to each other. As I stood in front of
32:23
Speaker 2: the King Road crime scene, I can look across and
32:27
Speaker 2: tell you the type of dishwashing liquid sitting in the
32:31
Speaker 2: kitchen window of the apartment across the street. It was
32:36
Speaker 2: the green Paul Paul Mallin by the way, and I.
32:39
Speaker 1: Could see it.
32:40
Speaker 2: So I guarantee you this video from Linda Lane and
32:46
Speaker 2: apartment nearby, it's got to be something damning. Hey, let's
32:49
Speaker 2: see those steal shots from the video that we're talking about.
32:53
Speaker 2: Could you describe this area, Chris mcdonna absolutely.
32:56
Speaker 7: Nancyen and you have stood there and it is a
33:01
Speaker 7: lot closer than what it appears from like a Google
33:05
Speaker 7: map or something like that. That area is you know,
33:09
Speaker 7: it's off housing campus or excuse me, it's off campus
33:13
Speaker 7: housing for students. It's surrounded by a couple of apartments.
33:18
Speaker 2: Look at your monitor. We're showing it right now and
33:22
Speaker 2: this is from the Veritas Quita's YouTube channel. Check it out.
33:26
Speaker 2: I guarantee you this is going to be blown up
33:28
Speaker 2: like nobody's business so the jury can see.
33:31
Speaker 1: This is one of a mini okay, go ahead.
33:33
Speaker 3: Dear, okay.
33:34
Speaker 7: So if you're driving straight up past eleven twenty two,
33:38
Speaker 7: you get to this apartment complex at the end of
33:42
Speaker 7: like a mini cul de sac, and then that's where
33:44
Speaker 7: this car is turning, and if you can complete that
33:48
Speaker 7: turn all the way around, it will take you behind
33:51
Speaker 7: the residents at eleven twenty two where you could actually park.
33:56
Speaker 7: And I think in this particular shot here he's actually
34:00
Speaker 7: so only to the end. It appears the car is
34:02
Speaker 7: backing up and then coming straight back down and parking
34:06
Speaker 7: in front of eleven twenty two. So you can get
34:08
Speaker 7: to the residence either way. If you want to peek
34:11
Speaker 7: on the residence, you can park behind it. If you
34:14
Speaker 7: want to surveil the residence, you can also park in
34:17
Speaker 7: front of it.
34:18
Speaker 2: Cheryl McCollum, You and I investigated the glam yoga teacher
34:23
Speaker 2: Caitlin Armstrong.
34:24
Speaker 1: Her SUV was caught going around and around and around.
34:29
Speaker 2: The scene of the crime just after the murder victim
34:32
Speaker 2: had walked in same thing. Here's Cheryl McCollum reportedly and
34:38
Speaker 2: again Coburger. He is innocent right now in the eyes
34:42
Speaker 2: of Lady Justice, and he remains innocent until he has
34:46
Speaker 2: proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt in a court of
34:49
Speaker 2: law by a jury of his peers.
34:53
Speaker 1: That said, we're not in a court of.
34:55
Speaker 2: Law, so let's talk about it. The video apparently catches
35:00
Speaker 2: him circling round and round and round, much like Caitlin
35:04
Speaker 2: Armstrong did. Mm hmm. And it's not just this one video.
35:10
Speaker 1: There's more.
35:10
Speaker 2: By the way, This is from very Tasks YouTube channel.
35:13
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Cheryl.
35:14
Speaker 9: The video is paramount. It not only shows time of
35:19
Speaker 9: day and location. It shows how he slows down. It
35:23
Speaker 9: shows how the car does the kay turn. They're going
35:27
Speaker 9: to cross shake that again, Nancy with cell phone things.
35:30
Speaker 9: They're going to cross check it again with the traffic ticket.
35:33
Speaker 9: And I want to come back to that traffic ticket,
35:35
Speaker 9: the one that he got in August, where it's midnight,
35:39
Speaker 9: he's just a minute or so away from the murder house,
35:42
Speaker 9: and he's getting the ticket for not having his seatbelt on.
35:45
Speaker 9: My theory is because he's getting in and out of
35:48
Speaker 9: his car stalking these young people. All of this, the video,
35:52
Speaker 9: the cell phones, the traffic tickets, goes to the plotting
35:55
Speaker 9: and the planning and the stalking that he did prior
35:59
Speaker 9: to these murder It's not uncommon, said Bundy Richard.
36:03
Speaker 2: Marriage, speaking of forensics, professor of Forensics at Jacksonville State University.
36:08
Speaker 2: I'm want to jump off with Cheryl McCollum was just saying,
36:11
Speaker 2: it's not just this video he wants suppressed. Okay, it's
36:15
Speaker 2: a whole series of videos. And I'm telling you what
36:19
Speaker 2: I think they're doing. And you and I discussed this
36:20
Speaker 2: with Cheryl a while back, and I think you were
36:22
Speaker 2: in on it too, Chris McDonough. I think they're pulling
36:25
Speaker 2: a Photus Dulos. Remember Dulo's who murdered his.
36:28
Speaker 1: Wife as the mother of five of his children, Jennifer Dulo's.
36:34
Speaker 2: That Lee put together a hodgepodge, a patchwork quilt that
36:37
Speaker 2: turned out beautifully.
36:40
Speaker 1: Of him getting in the car.
36:42
Speaker 2: And they've got a red light cam, and then they've
36:44
Speaker 2: got a surveillance video at a store.
36:47
Speaker 1: Then they've got a stop like Kim.
36:49
Speaker 2: There's even a shot of Dulos going by in the
36:52
Speaker 2: vehicle with her DNA in the backseat when a public
36:56
Speaker 2: bus opens the door and you see Dulo's going by,
37:00
Speaker 2: and they put together a story in video because as
37:05
Speaker 2: Cheryl was just saying, you've got this video from Linda Lane,
37:08
Speaker 2: then you've got in the video from the seven to
37:10
Speaker 2: eleven where you see him go by four o'clock in
37:14
Speaker 2: the morning, and there's more video they're trying to suppress.
37:17
Speaker 1: I think that's what they're doing.
37:19
Speaker 8: Yeah, I agree. And not only that they're attempting the defense,
37:23
Speaker 8: that is, they're attempting to try to try to anchor
37:29
Speaker 8: the narrative in their favor. Obviously that's what they have
37:32
Speaker 8: to do, but they're even changing language, Nancy about this case.
37:36
Speaker 8: They want a lot of the stuff excluded. We got
37:39
Speaker 8: into this I think probably about eight days ago. I'd
37:43
Speaker 8: urge anybody to go back and watch that episode where
37:47
Speaker 8: we were talking about the language that's being used. And
37:49
Speaker 8: one of the things that really stood out to me, Nancy,
37:52
Speaker 8: was this idea of going back to the knife sheath.
37:55
Speaker 8: They actually want to exclude the term touch DNA. So
38:02
Speaker 8: all of us in our field and others, we're supposed
38:08
Speaker 8: to exclude what is common language for us, so that
38:12
Speaker 8: it doesn't paint him in a bad light. And all
38:15
Speaker 8: of this, all of this evidence, whether it's videography or
38:18
Speaker 8: the physical evidence or the purchases, it paints him in
38:21
Speaker 8: a very very negative light. And so that's what they're
38:25
Speaker 8: trying to do with this, to try to throw a
38:27
Speaker 8: grenade into the room and try to disrupt this. All
38:30
Speaker 8: they need is one little bit here, one little bit
38:33
Speaker 8: to dissuade any jurors that might be on the fence.
38:36
Speaker 6: Colberger also wants weather data from the night of the
38:39
Speaker 6: murders to be kept from the jury. The state plans
38:43
Speaker 6: to use records from the National Weather Service for November
38:46
Speaker 6: twelve and thirteen to show Colberger wouldn't have had much
38:50
Speaker 6: luck stargazing, as his vague alibi claims. The reports taken
38:55
Speaker 6: at the Pullman Moscow Regional Airport, located roughly halfway between
39:00
Speaker 6: the two college towns, show fog, reduced visibility and low
39:04
Speaker 6: clouds at the time of the murders. Meteorologists say the
39:07
Speaker 6: fog was not thick enough to impede travel, but the
39:10
Speaker 6: night sky would only be clearly visible between breaks in
39:14
Speaker 6: the clouds.
39:15
Speaker 2: That's right, Idaho prosecutors planning to undercut Brian Coburger's alibi
39:20
Speaker 2: based on stargazing. I will never forget when that came out,
39:26
Speaker 2: you know what, at Sa Karma. Some would argue the
39:31
Speaker 2: weather was terrible that night Sydney Center. The weather according
39:37
Speaker 2: to the National Weather Institute, does not support In fact,
39:42
Speaker 2: it destroys Coburger's alibi. He was out stargazing, Nancy.
39:46
Speaker 1: That's what we believed from the beginning.
39:47
Speaker 10: That's what you've said.
39:48
Speaker 1: Over and over again.
39:50
Speaker 14: The easiest way to disprove that he was starguzing was
39:53
Speaker 14: whether or not you could see the sky that night,
39:56
Speaker 14: and you couldn't according to this weather report, and that's
39:58
Speaker 14: shaken from the Moscow Pullman Airport.
40:01
Speaker 10: That's pretty much directly in the center between those two towns.
40:04
Speaker 10: We drove that highway, Highway two seventy. It's directly in
40:08
Speaker 10: the middle. So wherever he was in Pullman and Moscow
40:13
Speaker 10: that night, he couldn't see the sky in either location.
40:15
Speaker 2: Any Finally, in the case reveals prosecutors plan to introduce
40:18
Speaker 2: National Weather Service records for November twelve and thirteen, twenty
40:22
Speaker 2: twenty two, as evidence. Apparently the area was shrouded in
40:26
Speaker 2: low cloud's fog. With these visibility at the time of
40:29
Speaker 2: their murders. Not much scar stargazing to be had.
40:32
Speaker 1: Hey, let's take a look at any piece of evidence.
40:34
Speaker 2: It's Brian Coberger's driver's license that popped up in the
40:39
Speaker 2: reams of evidence that we have been reviewing. I noticed
40:42
Speaker 2: that he's an organ donor. Just got morgan, Can you
40:45
Speaker 2: be an organ donor after the death penalty?
40:50
Speaker 8: Here here's my take. I participated in assisting in three
40:54
Speaker 8: autopsies of individuals that went through capital punishment. And you say, well,
41:01
Speaker 8: why would you do that, Well, it's still a homicide.
41:04
Speaker 8: All through those cases I assisted in were in Georgia,
41:08
Speaker 8: and there's not much that you could do with the remains.
41:15
Speaker 8: You can donate perhaps skin, maybe.
41:18
Speaker 1: Eyes, it's going to be if anything.
41:22
Speaker 8: Ye, no, no, it's not. And they are they are
41:26
Speaker 8: asking for the firing squad, and it's possible, you know
41:29
Speaker 8: that some elements of the body could be could be donated.
41:33
Speaker 8: However the problem is if there's any thought that you're
41:36
Speaker 8: going to put him on a vent and harvest a
41:37
Speaker 8: heart or take kidneys or liver or anything like that,
41:41
Speaker 8: that's that's not going to happen. You're talking about some
41:44
Speaker 8: of the peripheral elements that they could go in after,
41:47
Speaker 8: and that's certainly possible, but nothing as far as a
41:50
Speaker 8: vital organ would go.
41:51
Speaker 1: We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace signing off goodbye friend,