Latest / Pod Save America / "Attack of the Racist Babies."

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"Attack of the Racist Babies." · Pod Save America

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: On today's show, Republicans beclown themselves while testing their midterm
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: attacks on Judge Ketanji Brown-Jackson. State Department Counselor Derek Chalet
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: joins to talk about President Biden's trip to Brussels as
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: war rages in Ukraine. And Donald Trump is ditching some
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: loser Senate candidates as we also learn how close he
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: came to being indicted in New York. A lot of
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: news today. A lot of news.
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Big day for the Thursday pod.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Big day for the Thursday pod. I know, Tommy's already jealous,
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: he's been telling us. But before we start, please subscribe
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: to Offline if you haven't already. Last week I had
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: a fantastic conversation about journalism in the digital age. with
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: technology reporter Taylor Lorenz. And I just recorded a conversation
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: for this Sunday with Lilly Singh, actor, comedian, singer, author,
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: late night host, and one of the biggest YouTube stars
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: in the world with nearly 15 million subscribers. But she
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: recently deleted social media apps from her phone and wrote
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: a book about tuning out distractions to make yourself happier
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: and more, more fulfilled, which makes her the perfect offline guest. Uh,
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: it was, it was a great conversation. It was really fun. Um,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: check it out this Sunday. Uh, Also check out the
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: latest episode of Keep It, where Gabrielle Union joins Ira
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: and Louis to discuss her new film, Cheaper by the Dozen,
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: as well as activism in Hollywood. She is always fantastic
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: on that show, Gabrielle Union is. New episodes of Keep
• 1:41
  Speaker 1: It drop every Wednesday, so go check it out. And finally, Dan,
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: how are those pre-order sales going for Battling the Big Lie?
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: Well, John, I'm so glad you asked.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Thank you. It was on my mind.
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: In all seriousness, I just wanted to take a moment
• 1:56
  Speaker 2: and Thank everyone, all the Pod Save America listeners, friends
• 2:00
  Speaker 2: of the pod who went out and pre-ordered Battling the
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: Big Lie, my book about right-wing disinformation and what Democrats
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: can do about it that comes out on June 7th.
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: You know, it's never, you know, when you're doing your
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: offline pitches, it's never easy to like try to sell
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: the thing you worked on. And it's even harder when
• 2:15
  Speaker 2: it's something like you're really proud of. And so just
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: like always so grateful for this community of people who
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: always come together and support our stuff and have been
• 2:23
  Speaker 2: very supportive of my books in the past. And so
• 2:25
  Speaker 2: I just want to thank everyone. I know, John, you
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: personally kind of made fun of the book plates, but
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: it's possible.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: You took that tone as sarcasm, but I'm.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Waiting for my book plates. That tone can only be
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: taken one way, Ted Cruz. And I'd like to say
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: that perhaps you're jaded because more than 1,000 people signed
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: up for signed book plates, and the response was such
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: that my publisher– much to their chagrin, agreed to extend
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: the offer, which was supposed to expire today, Thursday, March 24th,
• 3:00
  Speaker 2: until next Thursday. So we have another week. So if
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: you go to battlingthebiglie.com, you can buy the book and
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: submit your proof of purchase and get a signed book
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: plate to prove that you're a more thoughtful person than
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: Jon Favreau. And so look, things have gone. Pre-sales went
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: really great. I was very grateful and excited about it. Uh,
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: we got some work to do before, uh, Kellyanne Conway
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: starts seeing us in her rear view mirror, but, uh,
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: we're making, we're making real progress. So thanks everyone who pre-ordered.
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: If you haven't pre-ordered it, please go do it as
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: soon as you can. I'd really appreciate it.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: I can't wait till I see you for our upcoming
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: shows in April and get you to sign an advance copy.
• 3:38
  Speaker 2: You're not, I'm not signing your book. I'm signing everyone
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: else's book. Emily's going to get a book. Charlie's going
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: to get a book. Leo's going to get a book.
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: You're getting nothing.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Screwed up now.
• 3:47
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: All right, battling the big lie. Go order it. Do it.
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: Don't let Kellyanne Conway beat Dan. We don't need that here.
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: We do not need that.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: We're dealing with enough shit. Let's talk about some of it.
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: Supreme Court nominee Katonji Brown-Jackson has now finished the question
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: and answer portion of her confirmation hearing after three days
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: of absolute nonsense from Republican senators who were competing to
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: get a soundbite on primetime Fox News. so they could
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: build their profiles ahead of the 2024 primary. Here's how
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: Lindsey Graham promised the hearing would go earlier this week.
• 4:25
  Speaker 4: So the hearings are going to be challenging for you,
• 4:29
  Speaker 4: informative for the public, and respectful by us. I hope
• 4:33
  Speaker 4: we can meet those criteria. It won't be a circus.
• 4:39
  Speaker 4: We're off to a good start.
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it won't be a circus. Here's how it actually went.
• 4:42
  Speaker 5: Good.
• 4:43
  Speaker 6: Cut.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Good. Absolutely good.
• 4:45
  Speaker 7: I hope you are.
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: Good.
• 4:47
  Speaker 7: Allow her to finish, please.
• 4:48
  Speaker 4: I hope you go to jail for 50 years if
• 4:51
  Speaker 4: you're on the Internet trolling for images of children in
• 4:54
  Speaker 4: sexual exploitation.
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: So you don't think that's a bad thing. I think
• 4:58
  Speaker 1: that's a horrible thing.
• 4:59
  Speaker 7: That's not what the witness said.
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: Look at the frigging Afghan government.
• 5:02
  Speaker 4: It's made up of former detainees at Gitmo.
• 5:05
  Speaker 8: This whole thing by the left about this war ain't working.
• 5:10
  Speaker 3: Do you agree with this book that is being taught
• 5:13
  Speaker 3: with kids that babies are racist?
• 5:16
  Speaker 8: Did you ever accuse in one of your habeas petitions
• 5:18
  Speaker 8: the government of acting as war criminals for holding the detainees?
• 5:24
  Speaker 8: The holding of the detainees by our government that we
• 5:27
  Speaker 8: were acting as war criminals.
• 5:29
  Speaker 3: Is it your personal hidden agenda to incorporate critical race
• 5:33
  Speaker 3: theory into our legal system?
• 5:37
  Speaker 9: When you accuse somebody of a crime, Are you calling
• 5:42
  Speaker 9: them a criminal?
• 5:44
  Speaker 3: Can you provide a definition for the word woman?
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: Fucking nonsense. Nonsense. What do we know about whether that
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: rather sad display of assholery actually moved any votes or
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: shifted public opinion in any way?
• 6:01
  Speaker 2: Well, it does not seem to have moved any votes.
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: And from what we understand right now, I think that
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: Judge Jackson came into this hearing on a strong path
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: to being confirmed as the first Black woman Supreme Court
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: Justice in this country's history, and none of that has changed.
• 6:17
  Speaker 2: In fact, I think if any votes were moved, they
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: might have happened among the Senate Republicans who might be
• 6:24
  Speaker 2: embarrassed to be purely associated with this collection of dumb assholes,
• 6:27
  Speaker 2: like a Rob Portman or Mitt Romney or Lisa Murkowski
• 6:33
  Speaker 2: or Susan Collins who might have been on the fence.
• 6:35
  Speaker 2: This might help move them in the direction of voting
• 6:37
  Speaker 2: for it. In terms of public opinion, Judge Jackson came
• 6:40
  Speaker 2: into this with the greatest base of support of any
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court nominee since John Roberts. And I don't think
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: she lost any support. It would not surprise me if
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: opposition grew a little bit, only because the right-wing media
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: had sort of taken a pass on this confirmation hearing
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: and this nominations from the beginning. And so a lot
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: of the Republicans in the poll told Gallup, who did
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: the poll, that they did not have enough information to
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: make a decision. And I'm sure all of these clips
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: were all over Facebook and Fox News, so you may
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: get a few, but I don't think it changes any
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: of the dynamics.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the right-wing media was like, wait a minute, a
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: black woman's being nominated to the Supreme Court? We're not
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: going to sleep on that.
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 7:22
  Speaker 1: Are we crazy? We're not taking a pass on that.
• 7:24
  Speaker 6: No, you're right.
• 7:25
  Speaker 1: I mean, Gallup, the poll was taken March 1st through 18th,
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: and it found 58% of Americans support Judge Jackson's confirmation,
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: as you said, highest since John Roberts, 17 years ago.
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: So a pretty strong base of support there. Manchin and
• 7:38
  Speaker 1: Sinema seem solid. Debbie Stabenow, who's the number four Democrat
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: in the Senate, it's her job to count the votes.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: She said, I don't know if any of us would
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: be able to sustain that with the grace, the poison
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: intelligence that she showed. If anything, it's just strengthening how
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: people feel about her on the Democratic side. She's seen
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: no change in any of the votes. Look, I... Right,
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: if you're the MAGA base... you're the MAGA base, you
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: see this stuff on your primetime Fox, and you're probably
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: getting angry and outraged, and suddenly you don't like Ketanji Brown-Jackson,
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: even though you never heard of her before. That's how
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: that goes, right? For everyone else in the country, I
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: think that if you're just a casual news consumer who
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: just happened to see, turn on the news for a
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: couple minutes or scroll through some headlines, I think you
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: come away with the impression that a bunch of these
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: assholes were just yelling things at her that didn't really
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: make any sense. They sounded extreme and incoherent, which is like,
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: you know, you can do one or the other, but
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: you do both. And I don't know if you're landing
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: any blows there on the Supreme Court nominee, particularly because
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: so many of the issues they raised with her had
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to do with any of the cases that
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: she would weigh in on as a Supreme Court justice.
• 8:54
  Speaker 1: They didn't really link her views or judicial philosophy to
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: cases that she might see when she's, uh, she might
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: hear when she's a Supreme court justice. They basically just
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: talked about, uh, random culture war shit that they've been
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: talking about for the last couple of years anyway, and
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: that they want to talk about in the midterms. And
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: they used the confirmation of the first black woman to
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: serve on the Supreme Court as an excuse to bring
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: up all the attacks they want to bring up over
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: the midterms. That's basically what I saw. And I think
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: it's actually pretty obvious to any sort of casual news
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: consumer who saw that.
• 9:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no subtlety there.
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: There was no subtlety. You know, there was stiff competition
• 9:32
  Speaker 1: between Graham, Josh Hawley, Marsha Blackburn, and Tom Cotton for
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the title of biggest Senate asshole. But in the end, Dan,
• 9:39
  Speaker 1: none of them were able to beat the man who's
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: been training his entire life for moments just like these.
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: And under the modern leftist sensibilities, if I decide right
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: now that I'm a woman, then apparently I'm a woman.
• 9:57
  Speaker 3: Tell me, does that same principle apply to other protected characteristics?
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: For example, I'm an Hispanic man. Could I decide I
• 10:05
  Speaker 3: was an Asian man?
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: Dan, is Ted Cruz okay?
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: Define okay.
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: Is he confused? What's going on with Ted Cruz?
• 10:16
  Speaker 2: He is being his full Ted Cruz self. Look, I
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: think you've got to put yourself in Ted Cruz's shoes
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: for a minute, which seems uncomfortable, I'm sure. But look,
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: you lost your second grade class selection, your third grade
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: class selection, your fourth grade class selection. Pick last for
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: everything in your life. You never won anything until you
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: realize the only contest you can win and never lose
• 10:37
  Speaker 2: is Biggest Asshole. So congratulations, Ted Cruz.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: Maybe you missed this, but he just came from the
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: Montana airport where he was screaming at a bunch of people,
• 10:46
  Speaker 1: do you know who I am? Because he was having
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: an issue at the airport.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: The thing that's so funny for Ted Cruz is he
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: has spent his entire life being the most unlikable person
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: in any organization, room, whatever he's ever been in. The
• 11:00
  Speaker 2: only people who don't dislike Ted Cruz are the people
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: who don't know him. And now he's mad at people
• 11:05
  Speaker 2: for not knowing him. He's like, why don't you hate me?
• 11:08
  Speaker 1: To know him is to loathe him. I mean, that
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: is just the truth. I thought that the best comment
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: about Ted Cruz's performance came from our own Tommy Vitor,
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: who tweeted, No politician consistently looks as petty and small
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: as Ted Cruz. He is the human equivalent of a
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: flaccid penis in a freezing cold pool.
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: I would say, just to give you a little peek
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: behind the curtain here, when Tommy tweeted that, I texted
• 11:35
  Speaker 2: it to him, and he said, Is this not OK?
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: I ran it by John. And I said, which John?
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and it was me. You thought it was love.
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: I assume love had OK'd that, yes.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: No, I signed up because I said to Tommy, I said, look,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: there's no one. No one is going to ever attack
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: you for whatever you say about Ted Cruz unless it's
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: a compliment.
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're correct.
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Not as a free shot at Ted Cruz. Even Republicans
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: don't like Ted Cruz. No one likes Ted Cruz. I
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: will say, though, on Tommy's tweet, total cowards ratio, 10
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: times the number of likes than RTs on that tweet.
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: We all know you guys like that tweet. Just go
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: ahead and retweet it.
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: What's the Ted Cruz quote? Is it Lindsey Graham who
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: said that if Ted Cruz was murdered on the floor
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: of the Senate, no one would testify against the murder?
• 12:23
  Speaker 1: Correct. Correct. That was Lindsey Graham. Here's everything you need
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: to know about why Republicans did what they did over
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: the last three days. An L.A. Times photographer got a
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: fantastic picture of Ted Cruz searching Twitter for his own
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: name just after he finished yelling at Judge Jackson, including
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: the ridiculous quote that we had in that first clip,
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: which was, do you think that babies are racist? First
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: of all, yes, it was a complete outrage what Republicans
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: did on the Senate. Everyone should be mad about it.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: I was mad about it. It was also fucking clownish
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: and ridiculous, and I don't want to let that part
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: go either. Because Ted Cruz, if you didn't see it, like,
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: blew up a picture of a kid's book called Anti-Racist Baby,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: blew it up, put it on an easel, and asked
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court nominee if she thinks that babies are racist.
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: It doesn't get more fucking nuts than that. It doesn't.
• 13:28
  Speaker 5: I mean, there is.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: a more serious, there'll be lots of more serious points
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: and we'll get to some of them, but many people
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: pointed this out, but I think we should just reiterate it,
• 13:38
  Speaker 2: which is the fact that Judge Jackson had to sit
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: there and calmly take all of this bullshit is, it's
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: offensive to her as a person and it bespeaks a
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: larger double standard in this country because take Brett Kavanaugh,
• 13:54
  Speaker 2: for instance, who got to take legitimate lines of inquiry
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: about credible allegations of sexual assault throw a fucking hissy fit,
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: act like a giant asshole on the stand, and it
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: won him votes. That is not a thing a black
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: woman could do in this country. And so she had
• 14:10
  Speaker 2: to sit there and listen to these people, patronize her,
• 14:13
  Speaker 2: demean her, demagogue her record, and sit there and take it.
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: And how she did that, I do not know. It
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: is to her great credit. I'm sure it's probably spending
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: an entire life listening to a bunch of assholes like this,
• 14:26
  Speaker 2: maybe not always on national television.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: It's why she was sitting there in the first place.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: It's how she got there in the first place. And
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: she'd also and, you know, we were saying this before,
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: but she's been through a couple of these confirmations before.
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: So she's a pro in every way. You know, even
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: the New York Times, not in an editorial and an
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: analysis piece, got exactly what was going on. They wrote
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: the message from the Texas Republican seemed clear. A black
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: woman vying for a lifetime appointment on the highest court
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: in the land would coddle criminals, go easy on pedophiles
• 14:55
  Speaker 1: and subject white people to the view that they were
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: by nature oppressors. Um, not subtle. It was not really
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: that subtle. I'll tell you what was the least subtle thing. Uh,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: in case you were wondering if, if, if the Republican
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: senators were still a little too subtle for you and
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: what they were trying to do. Uh, here's MAGA youth
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: media star, Charlie Kirk saying the quiet part out loud
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: on his show this week, quote, Katonji Brown Jackson is
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: what your country looks like on critical race theory. Your
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: children and your grandchildren are going to have to take
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: orders from people like her. And what's amazing is that
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: she has kind of an attitude, too. Fucking gross. Just gross.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: How do you think Judge Jackson and the Democrats on
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: the committee handled all this bullshit?
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, she did a phenomenal job. I mean, as
• 15:41
  Speaker 2: I was saying, who knows how anyone has the forbearance
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: to put up with these people and answer it calmly
• 15:47
  Speaker 2: and try to make sense of these asinine questions to
• 15:50
  Speaker 2: make legitimate points about the kind of justice she would
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: make the case for her company. She did a phenomenal job.
• 15:56
  Speaker 2: I think some Democrats did better than others. Obviously, Senator
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Booker gave a speech that was incredibly emotional and powerful
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: and was very worthy of the moment. I think other
• 16:09
  Speaker 2: Democrats could have done more to push back on her
• 16:12
  Speaker 2: behalf to call out what the Republicans were doing more explicitly.
• 16:16
  Speaker 2: This is the asymmetry of a lot of these hearings
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: for Democrats, either whether the House or the Senate is,
• 16:25
  Speaker 2: Republicans treat them as performance art for social media and
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: cable television, and Democrats treat them as a serious congressional hearing. Now,
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying we should act like them, but we
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: need to be able to anticipate and respond to their
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: tactics more aggressively and cleverly than just suggesting that they
• 16:42
  Speaker 2: have exceeded their time limits, right? It's like, the problem
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: is not that you're an asshole for six minutes and
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: a five minute allotted time. The problem is you're an asshole, right?
• 16:50
  Speaker 2: I think that's the part we have to call out.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I just want to... I want to play a
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: couple clips here just to get Katonji Brown Jackson's voice
• 16:59
  Speaker 1: in here and Cory Booker's speech, which was, I thought, phenomenal.
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: This is as close as Judge Jackson got to annoyed
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: during this entire three days of really annoying bullshit from Republicans.
• 17:13
  Speaker 5: People commit in this area.
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: Judge, you gave him three months. My question is, do
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: you regret it or not?
• 17:16
  Speaker 5: Senator, what I regret is that in a hearing about
• 17:23
  Speaker 5: my qualifications to be a justice on the Supreme Court,
• 17:28
  Speaker 5: we've spent a lot of time focusing on this small
• 17:35
  Speaker 5: subset of my sentences.
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: You know, and she goes on to talk about how,
• 17:40
  Speaker 1: you know, any judge who has to decide a case
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: that involves child abuse, like some of these cases that
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: they were questioning her about, it is a grueling thing
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: to go through, you know? And, and if, if you
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: know any judges about to do this and I do,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: it is like, you have to, you have to look
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: through the images. You have to read the testimony of
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: the case. It is not easy. And, and she spoke eloquently,
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: I thought about how awful and hard it was and
• 18:09
  Speaker 1: how just, just despicable, uh, these crimes are. And she,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: in her sentencing is just right in the center with
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: all these other judges, Republican-nominated judges, Democrat-nominated judges, judges that
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: Josh Hawley voted for. She's given the same fucking sentences
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: as they have, as all other judges have, and yet
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: she has to deal with this because Josh Hawley decided
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: that it would be a good line of attack, that
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: it was not just soft on crime, but also soft
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: on child crime. which is a dog whistle to the
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: fucking QAnon people who, by the way, got it because
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: it was all over their message board. So they heard it.
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: They heard the whistle. And here's Cory Booker's speech, which
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: I thought was by far just the best of the week.
• 18:54
  Speaker 6: It's hard for me not to look at you and
• 18:55
  Speaker 6: not see my mom, not to see my cousins, one
• 19:01
  Speaker 6: of them who had to come here and sit behind you.
• 19:04
  Speaker 1: She had to have your back.
• 19:07
  Speaker 6: I see my ancestors and yours. Nobody's going to steal
• 19:11
  Speaker 6: the joy of that woman in the street or the
• 19:13
  Speaker 6: calls that I'm getting or the texts. Nobody's going to
• 19:16
  Speaker 6: steal that joy. You have earned this spot. You are worthy.
• 19:21
  Speaker 6: You are a great American.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: I will just say that I thought no one made
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: Republican senators seem smaller than Cory Booker did the other day.
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: No expression of outrage, no burn, no tweet. No attack
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: on Republicans from any other Democrats. Like, I get what
• 19:43
  Speaker 1: you're saying about, you know, other Democrats definitely could have
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: done a little bit more. And when you actually look
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: through the hearings, you know. they said it was gross
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: and beneath the hearings and how are we dealing with this? And,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: you know, you're putting words in the witness's mouth. Like
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: they did all that. Dick Durbin did not get control
• 20:01
  Speaker 1: of the committee and, you know, let them keep going
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: and probably could have gaveled them in earlier for sure.
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: But like, They did attack the other Republican senators, but
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: that's not what was needed. And that's not necessarily what
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: was going to stick with people. What was going to
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: stick with people, what people are going to take away
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: from this and remember, if they remember anything, aside from
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: those fucking awful, gross attacks, is what Cory Booker said there.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: And I think that only Cory Booker could have done that.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: And I don't know that we needed another impassioned speech
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: from like a white guy on the committee. What we
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: needed was what Cory Booker said just then. And I
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: thought that– I cried now multiple times when I've heard that,
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: which is just– it was an amazing speech.
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're exactly right about the power of
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: Booker's speech, but also the right approach is to return
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: to first principles here, right? Which is it is not–
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: like this hearing is theoretically about the qualifications of this
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: judge to become a Supreme Court justice. But what you
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: can– and this is sort of what Republicans are trying
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: to do and they're very good at is dragging us
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: all into the mud and losing sight of the bigger picture,
• 21:10
  Speaker 2: which is it is a horrendous injustice that for the
• 21:15
  Speaker 2: history of this country, there's never been a black woman
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: on the United States Supreme Court. That's horrendous. And that
• 21:20
  Speaker 2: wrong is being righted here and it's being righted with
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: a tremendous, qualified, brilliant woman here. and apparently incredibly patient
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: woman to do it. And that, you know, I think
• 21:32
  Speaker 2: that's why the number, you know, in that poll that
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: we talked about earlier in this podcast are so high
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: for her relative to, you know, whether it was Elena
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Kagan or Neil Gorsuch for Republicans or whatever else was
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: because this was a moment people recognize that moment. And
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: Cory Booker reminded us of that moment. That's what sort
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: of what Republicans are trying. That's part of the tactic
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: here in, you know, with some efficacy, because it took
• 21:56
  Speaker 2: us until the, I don't know, 15 minute mark of
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: this podcast to hear Judge Jackson's voice, right? To talk
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: about that. And, you know, kudos to Cory Booker for
• 22:05
  Speaker 2: sort of thinking about politics in a bigger way and
• 22:07
  Speaker 2: reminding us of the greater truth here. And that's what
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: cuts through all the bullshit.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: And I think what Democrats need to keep in mind
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: is one of the most important things he said was
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: I'm not letting anyone in the Senate steal my joy.
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: Katonji Brown Jackson is going to get confirmed. She's 51
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: years old. she's going to be on the Supreme court
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: for a long time. Should be the first black woman
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: to serve on the Supreme court after far, far too long.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: And she was going to have a huge impact. Um,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: not just a symbolic impact, but in the actual decisions
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: that she hands down. And hopefully she can hand them
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: down at some point when, um, the liberal justices are
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: in the majority, but, um, we're going to get her
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: on the court and that's the win. And, and people
• 22:47
  Speaker 1: should feel very proud of that. And you should not
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: let yourself get dragged down in the mud with Republicans.
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: Cause that is what they want. Our friend, um, Heather
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: McGee really made me think with a tweet where she
• 22:58
  Speaker 1: tweeted the picture of Cruz looking for his own name.
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: And she said, you know, this is why I haven't
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: amplified a lot of the Republican comments over the last
• 23:07
  Speaker 1: couple of days, even to attack them, even to disagree
• 23:09
  Speaker 1: with them, because that's what they want. They want us
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: to argue about the bullshit that they said. They want
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: us to remember that that's what they said. And what
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: we should take away from this hearing is, is what
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Katonji Brown-Jackson said about herself, about her record, about her life,
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: about her qualifications, and what Cory Booker said about what
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: this moment truly means for her, for Black Americans, and
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: for the entire country. And that's what we should take
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: away from this.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: I mean, this period of the last year or so
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: has been incredibly frustrating for a lot of progressives, right?
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: A lot of the things that we hope to get
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: done have run into Joe Manchin or Kyrsten Sinema and
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: all of that. But the fact that Katonji Brown-Jackson was
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: sitting there in that hearing room yesterday and is going
• 23:51
  Speaker 2: to be confirmed in the Supreme Court is only because
• 23:56
  Speaker 2: of the work people did in this presidential election and
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: in Georgia. And so for whatever things that we wanted
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: to get done, we have not gotten done yet. That
• 24:05
  Speaker 2: hugely important, incredible thing that is going to last for
• 24:08
  Speaker 2: decades happened because a bunch of people did a whole
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: bunch of really important organizing and work. So if you're
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: looking for reasons to remember what felt so good, this
• 24:16
  Speaker 2: is one of them.
• 24:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. You wonder why you did the work, this is
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: why you do the work. We talked a little bit
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: about this on Tuesday's pod, but even though a lot
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: of the antics from the hearings were just Republicans being Republicans,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: it also seemed like they were testing out lines of
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: attack for the midterms on their favorite culture war issues, crime,
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: critical race theory, transgender rights. I know you wrote a
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: message box about this today. What are your thoughts?
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: Republicans have two strategies for 2022. And one of them
• 24:47
  Speaker 2: is they have to keep their base at a fever pitch.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: And that's what all of this culture war stuff is about.
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: It's about weaponizing race in crime and demagoguing the trans
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: community and everything else is to scare the living shit
• 25:05
  Speaker 2: out of their base, their overwhelmingly white base. But they
• 25:11
  Speaker 2: want to do that for their base, which they believe
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: they can communicate with directly through Fox, Facebook, whatever sort
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: of right-wing media machine. but then also have a separate
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: message that is about inflation and gas prices and wherever
• 25:27
  Speaker 2: we are in the pandemic when election day comes. And
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: so this is that first part about trying to keep
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: people as fired up as possible to get as much
• 25:35
  Speaker 2: turnout as they can possibly get. And which is why
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: it's not an accident that they made these explicit appeals
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: to QAnon because we should be very specific about what
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: that is. QAnon is a cult that the FBI has
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: called a domestic terror threat. And Republicans need them as
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: part of their coalition because for all of the discussion
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: of the strength they have in this election because of
• 25:58
  Speaker 2: inflation or gas prices of President Biden's approval rating, the
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: political position of Republicans continues to deteriorate nationally. Their base
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: is shrinking as a percentage of the country. And so
• 26:08
  Speaker 2: they need QAnon. So this is an explicit appeal to
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: keep those people in the base.
• 26:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think it's a very good point that
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: If Republicans just get their base excited, outraged over all
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: of this shit, as they like to do, that's probably
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: not enough for them. What they have also is this
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: message about inflation and chaos everywhere, and aren't you just
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: unhappy with the way things are going in the country,
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: particularly the economy, right? That's, of course, they may end
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: up winning the midterms based on that message. That's not
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: what gets them up in the morning. What gets them
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: up in the morning is picking fights, about race and
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: sex and gender and identity. And that's what they, and
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: you saw in these hearings that that's what they really
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: care about. But it is, it is tricky for them
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: because some of the voters they may get by saying,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: aren't you just pissed off about inflation? Don't you think
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: Biden should have fixed it by now? Do not agree
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: with them on all of these positions that they took
• 27:08
  Speaker 1: this week that people saw on TV. And I actually
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: think that, I think that they overreached by quite a
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: good deal in this hearing. Because it's like they I
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: think they seemed obsessed with race and sex and gender
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: in a way where, you know, like I said, Ted
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: Cruz is blowing up a kid's book. Marsha Blackburn is
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: asking a Supreme Court nominee to define the word woman.
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like an obsession. Again, I'm not
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: talking about to the base. The base loves us. The
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: base gets it. The base gets outraged over this shit.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: But for most people who don't follow this, it seems
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: fucking weird. It seems like a weird fucking obsession. And also, like,
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: you know, this wasn't part of the hearing, but Mike Braun,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: a Republican senator from Indiana, said during an interview about
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: Judge Jackson's confirmation on Tuesday that he'd be open to
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: the Supreme Court overturning its 1967 ruling that legalized interracial marriage.
• 28:07
  Speaker 1: And he'd be okay with that, with the Supreme Court
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: leaving that issue up to the states. Also, contraception as well.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Here's a clip.
• 28:14
  Speaker 6: So you would be okay with the Supreme Court leaving
• 28:16
  Speaker 6: the question of interracial marriage to the states?
• 28:20
  Speaker 10: Yes, I think that that's something that if you're not
• 28:22
  Speaker 10: wanting the Supreme Court to weigh in on issues like that,
• 28:28
  Speaker 10: you're not going to be able to have your cake
• 28:29
  Speaker 10: and eat it too.
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: I think that's hypocritical.
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: Not going to be able to have your cake and
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: eat it too. Interracial marriage. They went on to ask
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: him about Griswold versus Connecticut, which is a case about contraception.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: He said the same thing with that too. So that's contraception.
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: Here's just, 95% of Americans support interracial marriage, Dan. I
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: never thought we'd have to bring out that number from
• 28:50
  Speaker 1: a poll. But just so you know, 95% of people
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: support interracial marriage. 78% support birth control, access to fucking
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: birth control in this country. And, you know, Mark Joseph
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: Stern at Slate pointed something else out, which sort of
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: got lost in the hearings. John Cornyn, during the hearing,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: went after Obergefell, which is the decision that legalizes same-sex
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: marriage in this country. And lest you think that because
• 29:17
  Speaker 1: Obergefell was decided in 2015 that Republicans have given up
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: on attacking same-sex marriage. Not so. Not so. Because John
• 29:25
  Speaker 1: Cornyn during the hearing started going after Obergefell and basically
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: let them know that that's what they want their justices
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: to do. That's what they want conservative justices to do
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: is to overturn Obergefell. And that's 75% support for gay
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: marriage in this country. You know, I wasn't expecting to
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: hear all that this week, especially Mike Braun talking about
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: interracial marriage. Were you?
• 29:48
  Speaker 2: Were you more surprised by that someone named Mike Braun
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: said that or that there was someone named Mike Braun
• 29:55
  Speaker 2: who serves the United States Senate?
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: I did not.
• 30:00
  Speaker 6: Yeah.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: He's a Senator from Indiana.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Apparently. Apparently so.
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: Yes. Look, I mean, he made it, he made this
• 30:06
  Speaker 1: lame attempt to clean up the statement later on, which
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: you all heard it. I seem pretty, I, you know,
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: we played the clip. We didn't have the clip originally.
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: I'm like, you know what? He tried to clean it up.
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: Let's make sure everyone can hear it. Just that there
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: he was right there. I don't think that was a,
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: I don't think that was a mistake. I don't think
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: it was a mishap.
• 30:23
  Speaker 2: It was a yes or no question. He answered. Yes,
• 30:25
  Speaker 2: there is no, no, Look, I mean, I think there
• 30:30
  Speaker 2: is something to be taken from this that connects to
• 30:33
  Speaker 2: the earlier discussion about how the Republicans have been trying
• 30:37
  Speaker 2: to weaponize race and class. And what I was most
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: struck by, other than a sitting United States senator saying
• 30:45
  Speaker 2: he'd be OK with states banning interracial marriage, is that
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: almost no Democrats talked about it. It just came and went.
• 30:53
  Speaker 2: And I– You know– you and I had this conversation.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: You know there's nothing I fucking hate more than the
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: people who have never worked in politics, who just have
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: access to Twitter, who constantly just yell about Democrats doing more.
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: Fight harder. Do more. Have more press conferences. Those people
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: don't– have no idea what the types of decisions politicians
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: have to make and how hard it is to get
• 31:16
  Speaker 2: your message out and they never sort of account for
• 31:18
  Speaker 2: the Democratic messaging disadvantage or that there's no one person
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: in charge of the party. But this is one of
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: those situations where Democrats should have done more. Because this
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: is not just one statement by one random senator who
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: we discovered existed 24 hours ago. This is essentially the truth,
• 31:38
  Speaker 2: the underbelly of the entire Republican message. The Republican message
• 31:43
  Speaker 2: is make America great again. It is a restorative message.
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: The argument is that America is getting more diverse. It's changing.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: We are heading towards a multiracial democracy. And that multiracial
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: democracy is bad for you white people. And so we
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: are going to return to the period before that, before
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: voting rights, before civil rights, before the Supreme Court legalized
• 32:06
  Speaker 2: interracial marriage. And when people– your opponents tell you something
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: that is supported by 5% of the country, that is
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: core to their message, you have to hammer them over
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: the fucking heads on it. Yes, there was a lot
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: going on. We're in the middle of a confirmation hearing
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: for the Supreme Court justice. Ukraine, gas prices. Everyone's saying,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: talk about this, talk about that. But I do think
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: there's this learned helplessness among Democrats that is, if the
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: topic is race or crime, it's an automatic loser for us.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: So we have to immediately ignore it, let the pitch
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: go by, and try to get on a more favorable territory.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: And we know Republicans, because of their messaging power, dictate
• 32:43
  Speaker 2: the terms of political conversation in America. So we have
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: to figure out how to take those issues on and
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: win them and then be able to move to more
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: favorable terrain. And so if a Republican– just imagine for
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: a second if the shoe was on another foot and
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: a Democrat said something like that. Imagine what the Republicans
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: would have done, what Fox would have done. There would
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: have been statements on the floor of the Senate, the tweets,
• 33:03
  Speaker 2: and there was nothing. Lots of Democratic activists talked about it.
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: Some Democratic groups pushed it. But the official establishment Democratic
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: Party let this pitch go by, and there aren't that
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: many pitches left until 2022.
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: I think the problem is some Democrats treat all of
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: these culture war issues the same and they believe that
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: they are all divisive and that we shouldn't talk about
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: them because, you know, sometimes it's unpopular. And look, there
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: are some positions that we hold as Democrats on cultural
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: and racial issues that aren't as popular. but we hold
• 33:42
  Speaker 1: them because it's the right thing to do and that's
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: our values and we believe in them and good for us. This,
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: what we saw this week, Republicans going after interracial marriage,
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: gay marriage, birth control, that is not something anyone needs
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: to be afraid of. That is something that Democrats should
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: be shouting from the rooftops. 95% support, 75% support, 80% support.
• 34:07
  Speaker 1: These are issues that we are on the right, this
• 34:09
  Speaker 1: is issues that splits the Republican Party.
• 34:12
  Speaker 5: Right.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: This unites Democrats. This is 70, 80 percent, 90 percent
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: support among independents and probably half half of Republican voters
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: believe these things, too. And Democrats should absolutely march away
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: from these hearings being like we saw this week that
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: Republicans told the country that if they return to power,
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: they want to go after interracial marriage. They want to
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: go after gay marriage. They want to go after your contraception.
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: That's the kind of judicial system that they want in
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: this country. You know, and if you're not doing that,
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: what are you doing? Maybe they will. Maybe they will.
• 34:45
  Speaker 1: It's just been a week. Let's talk about what else
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: Democrats can do to respond to these lines of attack
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: ahead of the midterms. The National Republican Congressional Committee leaked
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: an internal poll to Politico this week that showed Republicans
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: ahead on the generic ballot by four points in 77
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: competitive districts that Joe Biden won by an average of 5.5
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: points in 2020. 75% of voters in these districts say
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: that Democrats are, quote, out of touch or condescending. And
• 35:09
  Speaker 1: those who identify the economy or inflation as their top
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: concern support Republicans by over 20 points. This is an
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: internal NRCC poll, so obviously it should be taken with
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: a huge grain of salt. But if you're DCCC chair
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: Sean Patrick Maloney and the Democratic candidates in those districts, how,
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: if at all, does what you heard this week from
• 35:28
  Speaker 1: those Republican senators change or shape your campaign going forward?
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: It is yet another argument for why making this election
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: more of a choice and less of a referendum is
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: to our dramatic advantage. Republicans have unpopular positions. They are
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: obsessed with cultural issues that are massively detached from the
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: huge challenges that American families are facing. Instead of worrying
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: about gas prices or the cost of things at the
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: grocery store, they are focused on policing kids' books, overturning,
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: getting rid of gay marriage, deciding who marries who, right?
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: Gay marriage, interracial marriage. We have to go on offense.
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: And that may not be enough. This is a brutal
• 36:05
  Speaker 2: political environment. But it sure as hell better than what
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: it is that has been happening. So we have to
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: go on offense. We have to attack the Republicans. We
• 36:14
  Speaker 2: have to do it with a unified voice, with a
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: singular message. We have to– there is no– we're not
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: running local campaigns. We're not– this is generic Democratic against
• 36:24
  Speaker 2: generic Republican. People actually like generic Democrats better than generic Republicans.
• 36:28
  Speaker 2: They really like generic Democratic policies better than generic Republicans.
• 36:32
  Speaker 2: And so let's go have the argument.
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's actually a lot more simple than people make
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: it out to be. We need to remind people of
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: their extreme positions and remind them they will turn those
• 36:43
  Speaker 1: positions into laws if they win. These are extreme right-wing
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: culture warriors who will fuck with your life if they win.
• 36:52
  Speaker 1: They will fuck with you over who you are, who
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: you love. Who you marry, what you look like, what
• 36:59
  Speaker 1: you do with your own body, what kind of health
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: care you can get, how easy it is for you
• 37:03
  Speaker 1: to vote, whether your vote will even count. They will
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: not take care of you. They will not protect you.
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: They will not make you rich. They only care about themselves,
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: making themselves rich, protecting themselves, taking care of themselves. That's
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: who they are as a party. You're upset. The country
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: things aren't going well. Understandable. This is the alternative. What
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: they have offered this week. Pretty clear message.
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: The message is, it could be worse.
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: I mean, do we want to be honest?
• 37:33
  Speaker 6: It could be worse.
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: It would definitely be worse, yes.
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah. There's also a number of wonderful policies that Democrats
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: have that if only we had a couple more Democratic
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: senators would make a huge difference in people's lives. So
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: that's the other message as well. We had a lot
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: of good stuff that Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema have
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: been fucking with that if you give us two more senators...
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: we could actually pass into law. So that's the other
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: side of it.
• 37:58
  Speaker 2: Here are your bumper stickers. It could be worse. And
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: 52 is the new 50.
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: All right. When we come back, Dan will talk to
• 38:06
  Speaker 1: State Department Counselor Derek Chalet about Joe Biden's trip to
• 38:09
  Speaker 1: Brussels amid the raging war in Ukraine.
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: Right now, President Biden is in Europe for a series
• 38:24
  Speaker 2: of critical meetings with our allies to discuss the Russian
• 38:26
  Speaker 2: invasion of Ukraine, which is now entering its second month.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: Joining me now to discuss Biden's trip is State Department
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: Counselor Derek Shillay. Derek, welcome to Pod Save America.
• 38:34
  Speaker 7: Dan, it's great to be with you. Great to be
• 38:36
  Speaker 7: out with the pod here.
• 38:38
  Speaker 2: Absolutely. So, Derek, let's start with this high-profile series of
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: meetings the president is doing. What are he and the
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: administration trying to accomplish abroad on this trip?
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: Sure, Dan.
• 38:49
  Speaker 9: Well, today it's been a month since Russia's invasion of
• 38:54
  Speaker 9: Ukraine began. And of course, every day we see new
• 38:58
  Speaker 9: images of brutality and terrible things happening in Ukraine. And
• 39:02
  Speaker 9: so this was a special NATO summit. Normally, as you know,
• 39:05
  Speaker 9: these summits take months and months and months to prepare,
• 39:09
  Speaker 9: but this was something that was not planned a month ago.
• 39:12
  Speaker 7: This was just put together just really in the last week.
• 39:14
  Speaker 9: And so it's the opportunity to for President Biden to
• 39:18
  Speaker 9: be in Brussels with 29 other NATO leaders. And then
• 39:22
  Speaker 9: also he's gonna be seeing leaders of the G7 as
• 39:25
  Speaker 9: well as the European Union. So really over the 24
• 39:29
  Speaker 9: hour span here, this is an opportunity for the president
• 39:31
  Speaker 9: to obviously check signals with all of our important partners
• 39:35
  Speaker 9: who have all been contributing to this effort to support
• 39:39
  Speaker 9: Ukraine and punish Russia, but also to chart a way
• 39:42
  Speaker 9: ahead on some of the things that we're worried about
• 39:45
  Speaker 9: happening in the future regarding this conflict.
• 39:47
  Speaker 2: So as we sort of look at what's happening, there's
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: sort of like two things that I think are true
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: at the same time. One is anyone who looks at
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: the sanctions that have been put into date by the US, NATO,
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: all of our partners, they've been very damaging to the
• 40:01
  Speaker 2: Russian economy, to the oligarchs who fund Putin's efforts. Yet
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: at the same time, it does not seem to have stopped,
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: certainly not stopped the invasion or even really hemmed in
• 40:12
  Speaker 2: some of the atrocious and horrendous things that President Putin
• 40:16
  Speaker 2: is doing in Ukraine. Are there more levers the president
• 40:19
  Speaker 2: wants to pull? Is there things he's trying to get
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: his allies to agree to here that would put additional
• 40:24
  Speaker 2: pressure on Russia?
• 40:25
  Speaker 7: Sure.
• 40:26
  Speaker 9: Well, there's more sanctions that are being outlined right now.
• 40:30
  Speaker 9: In fact, just today, the president outlined another 300 some
• 40:35
  Speaker 9: Russian individuals, members of the Duma, other government leaders, that
• 40:38
  Speaker 9: the United States is going to be sanctioning as well
• 40:40
  Speaker 9: as other defense entities as we continue to go at
• 40:45
  Speaker 9: the various pieces of the Russian economy that's fueling this
• 40:47
  Speaker 9: conflict and also enabling Putin to stay in power. At
• 40:52
  Speaker 9: the same time, the Europeans are also going to be
• 40:55
  Speaker 9: putting additional sanctions on, which is particularly meaningful because of
• 40:59
  Speaker 9: the extent of Europe's economic relationship with Russia, which is
• 41:02
  Speaker 9: much larger.
• 41:04
  Speaker 7: Than the US relationship.
• 41:07
  Speaker 9: Also importantly, and this is something the president's going to
• 41:09
  Speaker 9: be talking about with the European Union leadership, is working
• 41:12
  Speaker 9: with Europe on their own energy independence, because the area
• 41:16
  Speaker 9: where Europe and Russia have the deepest relationship is on energy.
• 41:20
  Speaker 9: And so, look, Europe gets a good chunk of its
• 41:23
  Speaker 9: energy supplies from Russia. It has for many years. So
• 41:26
  Speaker 9: that is a point of leverage that Russia has over Europe.
• 41:29
  Speaker 9: Europe has nevertheless moved forward on sanctions, many of which
• 41:32
  Speaker 9: I think surprised a lot of folks about the degree
• 41:35
  Speaker 9: of which Europe was willing to go forward on meaningful
• 41:37
  Speaker 9: sanctions against Russia.
• 41:38
  Speaker 7: And they're willing to do more.
• 41:40
  Speaker 9: But importantly, we're going to talk to them about ways we,
• 41:42
  Speaker 9: the United States, can help European partners become more energy
• 41:46
  Speaker 9: independent so they're less reliant on Russia.
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: And that's more of a long-term strategy to deal with
• 41:51
  Speaker 2: Russia's influence in the region, correct?
• 41:53
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:53
  Speaker 9: I mean, there's some short-term things we can do to
• 41:55
  Speaker 9: help bridge these remaining cold months to get through the
• 41:58
  Speaker 9: summer and the fall. But yes, this is something that
• 42:02
  Speaker 9: you're not going to be able to wean Europe off
• 42:05
  Speaker 9: Russian energy in a matter of months.
• 42:07
  Speaker 7: It's going to take years to do that.
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: And so another important aspect of this trip has to
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: do with the refugee crisis in Europe. It's something President
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Biden intends to address. There are reports today that the
• 42:18
  Speaker 2: United States is prepared to accept upwards of 100,000 Ukrainian
• 42:22
  Speaker 2: refugees and make a significant resource commitment to the region.
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: What can you tell us about that?
• 42:28
  Speaker 7: So you're right.
• 42:29
  Speaker 9: I mean, this is the largest refugee crisis we've seen
• 42:31
  Speaker 9: in Europe since the Second World War. There are more
• 42:35
  Speaker 9: than three million folks who've left Ukraine. And then there's
• 42:40
  Speaker 9: more than double that displaced within Ukraine. So at this point,
• 42:45
  Speaker 9: about a quarter of Ukraine's population is displaced. And what
• 42:48
  Speaker 9: that means is that they have left their home. So
• 42:50
  Speaker 9: they are either somewhere else in Ukraine seeking safety and
• 42:52
  Speaker 9: shelter or they have crossed the border and become refugees.
• 42:57
  Speaker 9: The brunt of that is being bore by the polls.
• 43:01
  Speaker 9: And so the polls right now have over 2 million
• 43:03
  Speaker 9: refugees from Ukraine. That's why President Biden will be going
• 43:07
  Speaker 9: to meet with some of these refugees over the weekend
• 43:10
  Speaker 9: and then also meet with the Polish government because the
• 43:13
  Speaker 9: Polish government and their people are sacrificing a huge amount.
• 43:16
  Speaker 7: So the United States, we got to do our part.
• 43:18
  Speaker 9: And so part of that is what the president's announced
• 43:21
  Speaker 9: that we'd be willing to take up to 100,000 Ukrainian refugees.
• 43:25
  Speaker 9: that's a significant number. I mean, that number itself is
• 43:28
  Speaker 9: more than refugees all around the world.
• 43:32
  Speaker 7: That we take a year annually.
• 43:33
  Speaker 9: Now, look, it's unclear, frankly, how many of these refugees
• 43:38
  Speaker 9: would want to come to the United States at this point.
• 43:40
  Speaker 9: I mean, I think a lot of folks who've left
• 43:43
  Speaker 9: Ukraine because of the war, perhaps they want to go
• 43:45
  Speaker 9: back once the war ends.
• 43:47
  Speaker 7: It would make sense.
• 43:47
  Speaker 9: They want to go back to their homes. And so
• 43:50
  Speaker 9: But we nevertheless are willing to take up to 100,000.
• 43:52
  Speaker 9: And I think that's the least we can do right now,
• 43:55
  Speaker 9: given the magnitude of this crisis.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: Another element of this that I know is on the
• 44:00
  Speaker 2: agenda for the meeting, particularly with NATO, is the potential
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: for Russian cyber attacks on the US or NATO partners.
• 44:07
  Speaker 2: National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan talked a little bit about
• 44:10
  Speaker 2: this the other day. What can you tell us about
• 44:12
  Speaker 2: what the United States is doing to prepare for such attacks?
• 44:16
  Speaker 2: And how we're thinking or what the discussions are happening
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: with our allies about what a response to those attacks
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: would look like?
• 44:22
  Speaker 7: Sure.
• 44:25
  Speaker 9: Obviously, we've been worried about Russian cyber attacks for quite
• 44:27
  Speaker 9: some time preceding this crisis, and we've been the victim, we,
• 44:31
  Speaker 9: the United States, of Russian cyber attacks over the last
• 44:33
  Speaker 9: several years. So part of what we're trying to do
• 44:37
  Speaker 9: is build our resilience and make sure that particularly critical
• 44:41
  Speaker 9: infrastructure is protected as best we can. We're also, the
• 44:45
  Speaker 9: US government, to the extent we have information or getting
• 44:47
  Speaker 9: information out to industry and to particularly those who would
• 44:52
  Speaker 9: be most vulnerable to a Russian cyber attack, trying to
• 44:54
  Speaker 9: build awareness among the American people as well. And so
• 44:57
  Speaker 9: that's why I'm glad you asked me about it, because
• 45:00
  Speaker 9: I think all of us could be victimized by a
• 45:03
  Speaker 9: Russian cyber attack in some shape or another. And so
• 45:07
  Speaker 9: although we haven't seen necessarily evidence that one is looming.
• 45:10
  Speaker 9: We have to be vigilant and ready for one. But
• 45:13
  Speaker 9: then also, we've been very clear to the Russians that
• 45:16
  Speaker 9: that would cross a line. And, you know, President Biden,
• 45:21
  Speaker 9: when he was with Vladimir Putin last summer in Geneva,
• 45:25
  Speaker 9: when they had a summit meeting there, and it was
• 45:27
  Speaker 9: shortly after the colonial pipeline attack, which took offline an
• 45:32
  Speaker 9: energy pipeline, and it was it was attributed to criminal network,
• 45:37
  Speaker 9: not necessarily backed by the Russian government. But, you know,
• 45:41
  Speaker 9: President Biden said to President Putin in the wake of that, look,
• 45:44
  Speaker 9: you got to crack down on these guys. You got
• 45:46
  Speaker 9: to do something about this because, you know, you got
• 45:47
  Speaker 9: a lot of energy pipelines too. And boy, it would
• 45:50
  Speaker 9: be pretty inconvenient for you if some of those went offline.
• 45:54
  Speaker 7: So, yeah.
• 45:55
  Speaker 9: I think the good news is we haven't seen evidence
• 45:58
  Speaker 9: of that yet. The bad news is we have to
• 46:00
  Speaker 9: be ready for it and be vigilant in case one
• 46:02
  Speaker 9: of those attacks were to happen. It's something President Biden
• 46:05
  Speaker 9: talked about with NATO allies in my years of going
• 46:08
  Speaker 9: back and forth to NATO meetings. It's been an ongoing
• 46:11
  Speaker 9: discussion at NATO for many years about what the alliance
• 46:14
  Speaker 9: can do. So working with other countries to try to
• 46:18
  Speaker 9: deter those attacks, but then also respond if they were
• 46:20
  Speaker 9: to occur.
• 46:22
  Speaker 2: Yesterday, Secretary Blinken reaffirmed a statement that President Biden made recently,
• 46:29
  Speaker 2: suggesting that the Russians had engaged in war crimes. Secretary
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: Blinken made a more formal, detailed presentation of that case.
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: What is the substantive legal value of that, and where
• 46:41
  Speaker 2: does it go from here?
• 46:42
  Speaker 7: Sure.
• 46:43
  Speaker 9: Well, as you said, Dan, that last week, the President
• 46:47
  Speaker 9: and the Secretary of State said that in their opinion,
• 46:50
  Speaker 9: their war crimes were being committed inside Ukraine. And we
• 46:53
  Speaker 9: just needed to use our own eyes to see that
• 46:56
  Speaker 9: happen when hospitals getting bombed and shelters that are clearly
• 47:00
  Speaker 9: identified with children and them being bombed. It is a
• 47:03
  Speaker 9: war crime to intentionally target civilian areas.
• 47:06
  Speaker 7: And that is happening.
• 47:08
  Speaker 9: So what was announced the other day here at the
• 47:11
  Speaker 9: State Department was the conclusion of some evidentiary work that
• 47:14
  Speaker 9: had been done, some research and gathering of the data
• 47:18
  Speaker 9: that could conclusively say that war crimes had been committed. Now,
• 47:23
  Speaker 9: there's various legal processes underway in the international community. There
• 47:26
  Speaker 9: is an international criminal court, which of course the United
• 47:28
  Speaker 9: States is not part of, but we can contribute evidence to,
• 47:33
  Speaker 9: to the extent cases.
• 47:36
  Speaker 7: Are gonna come forward.
• 47:39
  Speaker 9: One of the reasons why we did this yesterday is
• 47:40
  Speaker 9: to make clear that A, this is happening and there's
• 47:43
  Speaker 9: an evidentiary basis for it, but that B, there needs
• 47:46
  Speaker 9: to be accountability. It's actually interesting this week, this is
• 47:49
  Speaker 9: a little off topic, but on Monday of this week,
• 47:51
  Speaker 9: Secretary Blinken went to the Holocaust Museum here in Washington
• 47:55
  Speaker 9: and announced a conclusion that he had made, that the
• 47:59
  Speaker 9: State Department had made, that genocide had occurred in Burma
• 48:03
  Speaker 9: several years ago. And that's something that took a lot
• 48:05
  Speaker 9: of research and time to come to that conclusion. And
• 48:08
  Speaker 9: even though these crimes, those crimes were committed several years ago,
• 48:12
  Speaker 9: it was important for us here today, four years later,
• 48:14
  Speaker 9: to talk about it, to show that we are watching
• 48:18
  Speaker 9: and that there's accountability. And so that's part of why
• 48:20
  Speaker 9: we wanted to make this announcement yesterday. This is going
• 48:22
  Speaker 9: to start a process that the U.S. will be part
• 48:24
  Speaker 9: of in the international community to ensure that there's accountability
• 48:28
  Speaker 9: for the actions that are taking place today in Ukraine
• 48:30
  Speaker 9: down the road.
• 48:31
  Speaker 2: So just to kind of dig in on this a sec,
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: because the U.S. is not a part like Russia, not
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: a part of the International Criminal Court, if another country,
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: where maybe this is part of the plan, were to
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: make a finding to that court, the U.S. would supply evidence?
• 48:49
  Speaker 9: We can provide information for that case. And so that's
• 48:54
  Speaker 9: part of what we had started to do when the
• 48:57
  Speaker 9: invasion started.
• 48:57
  Speaker 7: We put together a team here in the U.S.
• 48:59
  Speaker 9: Government to accrue the evidence and sort of keep an
• 49:03
  Speaker 9: eye on everything. And to the extent we had information
• 49:05
  Speaker 9: that could corroborate anything that we're seeing with our own eyes.
• 49:09
  Speaker 9: I mean, that's one thing that's remarkable about this war
• 49:11
  Speaker 9: is so much of it is unfolding right in front
• 49:14
  Speaker 9: of us in real time, either from citizen journalists on
• 49:17
  Speaker 9: the ground or all of the journalists we've got out
• 49:20
  Speaker 9: there in the field. So this was just the formal
• 49:24
  Speaker 9: evidentiary basis of the war crimes.
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: I know another topic of discussion among the US and
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: our allies over the course of this 24-hour period is
• 49:33
  Speaker 2: about the potential for Russia to use weapons of mass destruction.
• 49:37
  Speaker 2: There have been some concerns raised about the potential for
• 49:40
  Speaker 2: using chemical weapons and even nuclear weapons. And in fact,
• 49:44
  Speaker 2: a pretty disturbing report in a recent day or so
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: that suggested that US military officials were unable to get
• 49:51
  Speaker 2: Russian officials on the phone to have conversations. That may
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: seem weird to folks now, like why would they talk
• 49:57
  Speaker 2: on the phone? But even in the height of the
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: Cold War, it was very important to keep those back
• 50:02
  Speaker 2: channels open so that no one misunderstood something and ended
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: the world.
• 50:08
  Speaker 7: And have an accident occur.
• 50:10
  Speaker 2: Yes, exactly. What is the level of concern about that?
• 50:13
  Speaker 2: Are there other back channels we're unaware of or just
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: communications happening that are more in the normal course of
• 50:19
  Speaker 2: business here? What's the conversation like about this concern?
• 50:24
  Speaker 9: So we are very concerned about it. And one of
• 50:26
  Speaker 9: the reasons why we're concerned is Russia is talking a
• 50:29
  Speaker 9: lot about it. And as we've seen in their playbook,
• 50:32
  Speaker 9: they tend to assert that Ukraine is using chemical weapons
• 50:36
  Speaker 9: or Ukraine and the US are creating chemical weapons on
• 50:40
  Speaker 9: their own.
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: The bio lab conspiracy. Totally bogus, right?
• 50:44
  Speaker 9: And this is right out of their playbook, but that
• 50:46
  Speaker 9: then creates a pretext or a justification in their minds
• 50:49
  Speaker 9: for the use of such weapons. So we haven't seen
• 50:52
  Speaker 9: indications that they're preparing for that. However, we are hearing
• 50:55
  Speaker 9: them say publicly and raise concerns about Ukraine chemical weapons,
• 51:00
  Speaker 9: which again is completely bogus.
• 51:03
  Speaker 7: So that's why we need to be vigilant about this.
• 51:07
  Speaker 9: It's one of the things that President Biden talked about
• 51:10
  Speaker 9: today at NATO and with other European leaders about hearing
• 51:16
  Speaker 9: from them about their concerns, but then also thinking about
• 51:18
  Speaker 9: what we may do in response or how we could
• 51:21
  Speaker 9: best prepare for that. And actually NATO made some decisions today.
• 51:24
  Speaker 9: And again, NATO is a military alliance. And so for
• 51:28
  Speaker 9: our NATO militaries to coordinate on response options in terms
• 51:33
  Speaker 9: of how if, God forbid, a chemical weapon were used,
• 51:37
  Speaker 9: there could be a real danger to European countries with
• 51:40
  Speaker 9: plumes of chemical weapon materials flowing across borders about how
• 51:45
  Speaker 9: we can best defend ourselves from that.
• 51:48
  Speaker 2: Derek, last question. I know another huge priority of Secretary
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: Blinken in the Biden administration is trying to reconstitute a
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: nuclear agreement with Iran. What is happening in Russia? has
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: created some complications for that. I think you can tell
• 52:02
  Speaker 2: me about progress you were making and how you're navigating
• 52:05
  Speaker 2: the situation that Russia was a part of the original
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: agreement and plays an important role in what a new
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: agreement would look like.
• 52:11
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:11
  Speaker 9: So Russia has been part of the, of the process
• 52:14
  Speaker 9: going back to the original Iran agreement negotiated during the
• 52:17
  Speaker 9: Obama administration, uh, as part of the negotiations with the
• 52:21
  Speaker 9: Iranians to, to curb their, their nuclear program really up
• 52:25
  Speaker 9: until this crisis, up until the invasion, they had been, uh,
• 52:29
  Speaker 9: relatively constructive part of those negotiations.
• 52:33
  Speaker 7: So they weren't throwing up roadblocks or anything.
• 52:35
  Speaker 2: We hit a.
• 52:36
  Speaker 9: Wrinkle a few weeks ago with them, but I think
• 52:40
  Speaker 9: that could be ironed out. But we're still not in
• 52:43
  Speaker 9: an agreement yet with return to the so-called the JCPOA,
• 52:47
  Speaker 9: the Iran nuclear deal. I think our perspective is, Dan, first,
• 52:52
  Speaker 9: the policy that we inherited, the policy of the last
• 52:54
  Speaker 9: several years now, of so-called maximum pressure against Iran has
• 52:58
  Speaker 9: not worked at all. It's made Iran's program more dangerous,
• 53:00
  Speaker 9: nuclear program more dangerous, and it's made Iran a more
• 53:03
  Speaker 9: dangerous actor throughout the Middle East. So we believe that
• 53:08
  Speaker 9: getting back to the JCPOA, which puts Iran's nuclear program
• 53:11
  Speaker 9: in a box, is the best way forward. I think
• 53:13
  Speaker 9: particularly given the moment we're in, where we were just
• 53:16
  Speaker 9: talking about the possible use of WMD in Ukraine, the
• 53:19
  Speaker 9: last thing we need is another nuclear crisis in the
• 53:22
  Speaker 9: world happening simultaneously. We're not there yet in a deal.
• 53:26
  Speaker 9: I don't know whether we will be able to finish
• 53:28
  Speaker 9: the deal with the Iranians because we still have some
• 53:31
  Speaker 9: details to figure out. But if we do enter the deal,
• 53:38
  Speaker 9: re-enter the deal, I think it would.
• 53:39
  Speaker 7: Make us safer.
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: Derek Shillay, thank you so much for joining us on
• 53:43
  Speaker 2: Pod Save America. And I will let you get back
• 53:44
  Speaker 2: to this very, very busy day I imagine you had.
• 53:47
  Speaker 1: Thanks.
• 53:47
  Speaker 7: It was great to be here. Appreciate it.
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: Okay, before we go, some goodish news for your weekend
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: from NBC's first read. Quote, when Donald Trump travels to
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Georgia this Sunday for his latest rally, he'll arrive in
• 54:07
  Speaker 1: his weakest political position in months within his own party.
• 54:11
  Speaker 1: Here's why. In Georgia, polls show the Trump-backed David Perdue
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: trailing Governor Brian Kemp, despite Trump appearing in multiple Perdue ads.
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: In Missouri, Trump is now hinting that he may end
• 54:23
  Speaker 1: his flirtation with endorsing Eric Greitens. after court filings revealed
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: the former governor's ex-wife accused him of physically abusing her
• 54:30
  Speaker 1: and their three-year-old son to the point where she slept
• 54:33
  Speaker 1: in the child's room to protect him. Fucking revolting. And
• 54:37
  Speaker 1: in Alabama, the former president made some news this week
• 54:39
  Speaker 1: when he rescinded his endorsement of Alabama Senate candidate Mo
• 54:42
  Speaker 1: Brooks because Brooks is badly trailing his opponents. But obviously,
• 54:46
  Speaker 1: Trump needed to concoct a better reason than that. So
• 54:49
  Speaker 1: he released a statement saying that Brooks, who famously... urged
• 54:54
  Speaker 1: January 6th rally goers to, quote, start taking down names
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: and kicking ass, has, in Trump's words, gone woke. Dan,
• 55:04
  Speaker 1: what's Trump's evidence for Mo Brooks going woke?
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: This is truly my favorite story in months. because Mo Brooks.
• 55:14
  Speaker 1: That's a high standard.
• 55:16
  Speaker 2: Well, no, not if you look at the news we've
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: been getting on Thursdays for a while here, but.
• 55:20
  Speaker 1: True, true, true, true.
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: It's my favorite Thursday story. There have been a lot
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: of other good stories, but Mo Brooks is a fucking lunatic.
• 55:27
  Speaker 2: He says insane, stupid things 24-7. He says one thing...
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: That is not insane. And that is that Donald Trump,
• 55:38
  Speaker 2: there is not the legal authority to reinstate Donald Trump
• 55:42
  Speaker 2: and remove Joe Biden from the White House right here
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: and now. He says that one thing and Donald Trump
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: calls him woke in unendorsism. It is just fucking nothing
• 55:53
  Speaker 2: has ever better explained. the state of the Trump-era Republican
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: Party than that. Say one thing, and you are on
• 56:00
  Speaker 2: the outs. It's just fucking great.
• 56:02
  Speaker 1: Did you read the interview that Mo Brooks gave when
• 56:05
  Speaker 1: he talked about this? When Trump was with him, it
• 56:08
  Speaker 1: was around Labor Day last year in September, and he
• 56:12
  Speaker 1: basically tells Brooks, I want you to rescind the 2020 election.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: And hold a special election, an emergency election, to put
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: me back in the White House and get Joe Biden
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: out of there. And he got Mo Brooks, one of
• 56:24
  Speaker 1: the craziest fucking members in Congress, to be like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
• 56:30
  Speaker 1: I am just a country lawyer here, sir, but I
• 56:33
  Speaker 1: do not believe that I have the power to reinstate
• 56:36
  Speaker 1: you as president.
• 56:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, it's so good. It's so good.
• 56:43
  Speaker 1: It's so good. I know we talked about Trump's endorsement
• 56:45
  Speaker 1: effect on other Senate races last week, but what do
• 56:47
  Speaker 1: you think about how much it matters in these three states, Georgia, Alabama,
• 56:51
  Speaker 1: and Missouri?
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: Apparently, it doesn't matter very much at all. I mean,
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: he can't, it's Alabama, right? He cannot help Mo Brooks,
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: even before Mo Brooks went woke on him. In Georgia,
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: his candidate, at least Hershel Walker, his Senate candidate is
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: doing very well, but Hershel Walker does not need Donald
• 57:06
  Speaker 2: Trump to be doing well. I mean, there is real
• 57:09
  Speaker 2: evidence that Trump's support is not worth as much as
• 57:14
  Speaker 2: everyone assumed it was. Now, that doesn't mean that Trump's
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: active opposition might not be very damaging to people, but
• 57:22
  Speaker 2: simply having Donald Trump endorse you is not the golden
• 57:26
  Speaker 2: ticket to Congress that it potentially was a few years ago.
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: That has changed for sure.
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. This is one more notable Trump story we should
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: talk about that broke late Wednesday night in the New
• 57:37
  Speaker 1: York Times. This one is much more frustrating than anything else.
• 57:41
  Speaker 1: Remember when the Times reported last month that Manhattan District
• 57:44
  Speaker 1: Attorney Alvin Bragg had decided to stop pursuing a criminal
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: indictment against Trump for his corrupt business dealings? Well, the
• 57:52
  Speaker 1: Times got a copy of the resignation letter submitted by
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: one of the top prosecutors in the case, Mark Pomerantz,
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: who wrote in the letter that he believed the former
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: president was, quote, guilty of numerous felony violations, that there
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: was enough evidence to prove Trump's guilt beyond a reasonable doubt,
• 58:10
  Speaker 1: and that it was a quote, grave failure of justice
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: for Bragg not to hold him accountable and move forward
• 58:16
  Speaker 1: with the indictment. What was your reaction to that story?
• 58:20
  Speaker 2: One, just as you read it, it was like, God,
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: how did the Times stumble on that resignation letter? Did
• 58:25
  Speaker 2: they find it in Mark Pomerantz's trash? Why can't they
• 58:28
  Speaker 2: just say that Mark Pomerantz gave it to him? Which
• 58:31
  Speaker 2: he has every right to do, and I'm glad he
• 58:33
  Speaker 2: fucking did. But it's like, you're not Woodward and Bernstein
• 58:37
  Speaker 2: getting something from Deep Throat in the parking lot, right?
• 58:39
  Speaker 2: It's just like something they emailed it to you.
• 58:41
  Speaker 1: Honestly, he might as well have just tweeted out the letter.
• 58:43
  Speaker 7: I know, huge.
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: He should have just put it on a notes app.
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: He'd have a million Twitter followers. Think of the clout
• 58:50
  Speaker 2: he would have if he had just N-runted the Times.
• 58:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he'd be like Occupy Democrat. That's right.
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: RT if you think. I envision people standing at the
• 59:04
  Speaker 2: Supreme Court and watching the impeachment eagle flying in and
• 59:07
  Speaker 2: thinking it's going to land and then it just turns
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: and goes around.
• 59:10
  Speaker 1: Away.
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: Like we were so fucking close.
• 59:11
  Speaker 1: They really pulled up at the last minute there. I mean,
• 59:16
  Speaker 1: one thing we learned from the story that was news
• 59:19
  Speaker 1: is that Cyrus Vance, the last DA, right before he
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: left office, had in fact decided to pursue a criminal
• 59:26
  Speaker 1: indictment of Donald Trump. Like, it was going to happen.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: And then fucking Alvin Bragg took over and backed off. Whoa,
• 59:31
  Speaker 1: what's going on here?
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: I'd like to know more about why that happened.
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: Why Bragg backed off? Yeah. I mean, it seems like
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: if you're reading the... When I read the story a
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: couple times to try to figure this out, it seemed
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: like what they had decided to move forward with, the
• 59:46
  Speaker 1: case they thought was going to be the easiest to prove,
• 59:49
  Speaker 1: is that Trump had falsified his business records. The prosecutors,
• 59:53
  Speaker 1: Pomerantz and his partner... both believed that there was enough
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: evidence to prove that Trump had knowingly falsified the records.
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: It seems like Bragg thought that, yes, the records were
• 1:00:05
  Speaker 1: were false, but that maybe it would be harder to
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: prove that Trump knew that they were false or that
• 1:00:10
  Speaker 1: knew which, you know, clearly the prosecutors disagree. Now, look,
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: in these cases, prosecutors disagree with their supervisors all the time.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: Sometimes supervisors don't bring a case that prosecutors very much
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 1: want them to bring. It's very much out of school
• 1:00:23
  Speaker 1: for then a prosecutor to go out and publicize the
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: fact that they thought that someone was guilty that they
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 1: were going to charge without charging them. Like you wouldn't
• 1:00:30
  Speaker 1: want that to happen in many cases, I should say. Um,
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 1: I know that's Donald Trump, so we say whatever, but like,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: that's not a normal practice. Um, but it does also
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 1: suggest that like Bragg's official line right now is, Oh,
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: we're continuing the investigation. If he really is continuing the
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: investigation and there might be a chance that he indicts Trump,
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 1: then Pomerantz putting that letter out actually harms that investigation. Um,
• 1:00:55
  Speaker 1: Which makes you think that Pomerantz released the letter because
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: he actually knows that Bragg is never going to bring
• 1:01:00
  Speaker 1: the charge against Trump, which sucks, Dan.
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 2: We've been waiting so long.
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 1: We're waiting for that impeachment eagle. It's not even an
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: impeachment eagle.
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 2: It's an indictment eagle. We've been doing this for so long.
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: It has evolved into the indictment eagle. I mean, just
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 2: to sort of tie this in a bow, as a
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: professional podcaster should, This seems at least somewhat adjacent to
• 1:01:29
  Speaker 2: the fact that the Republicans are running around accusing Democrats
• 1:01:32
  Speaker 2: of being soft on crime when their chosen party leader,
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: the person who holds fundraisers for them, who attends rallies
• 1:01:38
  Speaker 2: for them, who they're willing to storm the Capitol for
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 2: is a fucking criminal. Criminal. Being a Trump-enabling Republican means
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: you are soft on crime. And it seems like a
• 1:01:53
  Speaker 2: point we could point out at some point, in addition
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: to yelling fund the police at the top of our lungs,
• 1:01:57
  Speaker 2: we could point out that the Republican Party has been
• 1:01:59
  Speaker 2: helping their leader avoid criminal prosecution for years now.
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they love crime when it's one of their own.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 1: When it's committed by a powerful Republican, eh, whatever.
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: Putting the white in white collar crime.
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. We can't top that, Dan. We can't top that.
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: Thank you to Derek Chalet for joining us today.
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: That's just how Derek Chalet is.
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 1: I had to do that with Lovett and Judd Apatow
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 1: on the Monday pod. Thank you to Derek Chalet for
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 1: joining us today. Everyone go buy pre-order Battling the Big Lie.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 1: Have a great weekend, and we will talk to you
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: next week.
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: And subscribe to Offline.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 10: Bye, everyone.
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 1:02:58
  Speaker 1: Our producer is Haley Muse, and Olivia Martinez is our
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: associate producer. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 1: Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to
• 1:03:07
  Speaker 1: Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft,
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montouth. Our
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.