Latest / The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination / Ep. 238 ~ Hot Boxing w/ Bill Boxley

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Ep. 238 ~ Hot Boxing w/ Bill Boxley · The Lone Gunman Podcast : JFK Assassination

0:14
Everything is going to hell down here in Darton, And don't come with my
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dad who We take that back and I don't call my chat. Here is
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your holeside where we won't be and don't calling my dah We take back bron
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then don't come and find here your holeside where. Oh yeah, you know
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what that song means. It's another exciting edition of the Lone Vimin podcast.
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I am the trump to be a big bad vibe here with you, otherwise
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I know it's Robert Bark for another exciting episode. This week, we're gonna
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be talking about a figure in the Garrison investigation known as Bill Boxley, also
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known as William Wood, a known allegedly former CIA asset working in the DA's
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office for the Garrison investigation into the death of beloved thirty fifth President John Fitzgerald
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I appreciate it. All Right to the show, So let's get to
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Bill Boxley. Let's uh, let's have a listen and see what Joan Mellon
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thinks about Bill Boxley. So we had a variety of figures. We had
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a figure named Bill Boxley. Boxley had a right. He was with the
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CIA. There's no doubt about that. He'd been a CIA operative. And
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then he says he left the agency. But of course now we know nobody
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ever leaves the agency. And he forgave him. Garrison said he was just
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duped. He was controlled by other people, and Boxley was behind that.
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Boxley was also behind the idea that they should discount Becky had They had letters
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from people saying, take a look at this guy. He take a look
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at Omaha, take a look at Thomas, said we'd Beckham and about all,
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there's nothing in it and so forth, and this time Garrison didn't listen
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to Boxley. Eventually, Garrison fires Boxley in December of nineteen sixty eight,
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before the short term. But a lot of damage had been done and there
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were other figures who stole the files who there was one character, all right,
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So there you get a little taste of what Joan Millin thought about Bill
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Boxley aka William Wood. This interesting description from they have can Assassination dot net.
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This just comes from an internal CIA memorandum to the Director of the DCS
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attention Deputy director from the Houston office regarding Bill Wood, agents for Jim Garrison
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making inquiries in Dallas. M Paul Rothermell, a security officer company, advised
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Jim Moore that he had been visited recently by a Bill Wood, who was
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making investigations in Dallas for New Orleans District Attorney Jim Garrison. Wood was inquiring
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about the CIA and its operations. According to Rothermell, Bill Wood used to
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work for an individual named climber Wright. I'm will sure of the Houston Tribune.
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Rother Mill said Wood went to work for Garrison under the name of Bill
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Boxley. Rother Mill also told More that Wood is well known in Houston and
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his connections with Garrison and no secret. This is the first we have heard
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regarding this matter. I'm sure the subject is the same William Clarence Wood,
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Junior, who visited the Houston office in the early nineteen sixty seven, volunteering
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his services. At that time, Wood said he was executive vice president and
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editor of the Houston Tribune Publishing Company, a local weekly newspaper. You may
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recall that we were impressed with wood sincerity. He volunteered that he worked for
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the agency and that his resignation had been readily accepted because he had developed a
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drinking problem at the time. He also said he had not consumed to drop
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a alcohol for nine and a half years, but it held several responsible jobs
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prior to joining the Houston Tribune. We requested a name check clearance, which
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we received March third, sixty seven, followed by an eyes alone memo containing
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adverse information. Because of this, we dropped Wood as a potential source.
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We have not heard from him since seven March nineteen sixty seven, the last
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time he volunteered his services. The climber right mentioned by Rothemil is the present
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publisher of the Tribune, although we have no contact with the Tribune. The
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current editor, Harold Pyle, is reported to be an exceptionally fine individual.
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He retired from the Houston Chronicle after many years with that paper and joined the
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Tribune as editor. Via Morris says, Rothemil has nothing more to add regarding
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Wood because there's the needs of detail of regarding Wood separation from the Tribune.
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We believe it will be possible to obtain the information discreetly, all right,
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So obviously there's nothing here that supports Garrisons believed that Boxley was the CIA spoop
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sent to undermine his investigation. Clearly Boxley didn't fact as CIA. He must
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have left the agency at least at least nine and a half years earlier,
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if that's how long he had been sober, and adverse information meant they weren't
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going to accept him. In nineteen sixty seven. Another document, recently declassified,
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clarifies Wood's status. It's a report on various Garrison's claims, sent as
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an attachment to letters to Senator Richard Russell of the Senate Armed Services Committee Representative
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Michael or Mendel Rivers of the House Armed Services Committee. This cover letter from
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Richard Hilmes, as dated July twenty fourth, nineteen sixty seven. The fact
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that such past experts people claiming knowledge are inside now ledge of intelligence operations all
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were subsequently discredited and peached has not deterred Garrison from unveiling yet one more reliable
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operative. William C. Wood smoked in the pseudonym Bill Boxley, purportedly a
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former CIA employee and Garrison's liaison with a foreign intelligence agency. In fact,
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Wood was a CIA employee from December nineteen fifty until January nineteen fifty three.
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His residentation was requested because of alcoholism, a condition from which he had not
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recovered recently as February nineteen sixty seven. Thus, Boxley, rather than being
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a CIA spy in Garrison's office, was just an alcoholic who couldn't hack it
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with the agency, and it had no connection with the agency for fourteen years
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when he signed on with Garrison. It seems that Boxley was another CIA agent
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who, like Gordon Novelle, Richard Kase, Miguel and Robert Morrow before him,
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crated on supposed connections with the agency. But we're in reality just wannabes
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or in Woods case, he has been all right. So there's two starkly
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different categorizations of Bill Boxley. So of course Bill Boxley wasn't the only alleged
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former CIA related individual to try to join up and infangrate the Garrison investigation.
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There was also a fellow by the name of Jim Rose. Okay, Jim
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Rose's entree into the Garrison investigation king courtesy of former FBI guy William Bill Turner,
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who during this period was freelancing for Ramparts magazine and dabbling in some JFK
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assassination research. At some point, Garrison passed on leads the Ramparts editor Warren
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Hinkle, which Henkel passed along to Turner. Hinkle and Turner would later co
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author The Fishes Read the Story of the Secret War against Castro. Soon after,
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Turner inserted himself into the Garrison investigation and brought along with him Jim Rose,
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who had also freelanced at Ramparts. Although Rose used a number of aliases
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Jim Rhodes, Vince Rose, Carl Davis, and Steve Wilson, his real
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name was E. Carl McNabb Carl E. McNabb, but for clarity's sake,
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we'll just call him Jim Rose, because that's how he's often identified in
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memos, letters and articles from the period. According to William Hinkle, we
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called him Jim Rose. At least that was the name by which he was
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known to everyone on the magazine, including one of the secretaries with whom he
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took up housekeeping between Daring's due. But he had a name for every day
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of the week. He was Jack Carter when he worked in Miami, until
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later he became too hot and decided to kill off Carter by simulating a plane
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crash at sea, thus discouraging the spoil sports in the FAA. Inquiring further
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into the checkered history of Carter's flight plans, he had several newspaper clippings reporting
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his own death, which he would exhibit with eager shyness of someone showing you
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an appendix scar or bottled gallstone. He was also known as Dolls, also
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as McLeish, also as several other people, among which I was always partial
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to Rose because of Gertrude Stein and all, but by any name he was,
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as Damon Runnyon said about those types who stand out among other types of
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their type, the genuine item. He loved adventure, and second only to
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that, he loved talking about adventure. Although Hinkle considered Rose a real deal
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soldier of fortune with the intelligence agency connections up the wazoo, others connected to
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the years and investigation were lessen for alled with the seemingly self created legends scrolling
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around the ending Mattie mister Rose. Rose claimed he'd worked as a CIA contract
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pilot and had flown admissions at one time or another with David Ferry. However,
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Rose said many things to many people that more often than not were never
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really panned out. Just the same, there's plenty of evidence that suggested Rose
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was involved in paramilitary activities linked to the CIA, strange bedfellows such as Jim
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Rose, just that Garrison showed little hesitation about recruiting into his investigation former intelligence
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agents or assets from the very same agencies that he theorized were behind JFK's assassination
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such former agents or assets that could potentially serve as molds and undermine his own
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investigation, and that's exactly what Garrison later claimed that his investigation had been infiltrated
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by former CIA spies and ultimately sabotaged, in particular a character named Bill Boxley,
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a former CIA spoop who prior to hooking up with Garrison, had apparently
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been boot from the agency due to frequent bouts with the Bottle. Boxley and
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Garrison eventually had a falling out, and Boxley jumped ship and ended up actually
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working on Clay Shaw's defense team. Even though Garrison was knee deep in his
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belief that the FBI and CIA were attempting to sabotage his chase, he nonetheless
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possessed and almost fanboy fascination with former spoops. The first time Rose met with
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Garrison at the DA's office, he was frisked by staff or Lou Ivan,
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who apparently overlooked a deadly ballpoint Penn Rose was carrying. It's napalm. Rose
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explained, if I shot you, your face would go up in flames.
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Garrison and dearingly dubbed Rose Winston Smith and then later Winnie the Pooh and Rosalie.
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Although Rose wasn't officially on Garrison's payroll, he was compensated to a slush
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fund called Truth or Consequences they would set up by a group of wealthy right
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wing Garrison supporters. Among his many activities, Rose was paid a thousand dollars
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up front to travel to Tacoma, Washington, to investigate Fred Chrisman, another
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among the polar ful alleged JFK assassination conspirators targeted by Garrison. On a trip
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in the Northwest in nineteen sixty eight, Fred Nuwcomb, a JFK assassination researcher
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and graphic artist commissioned by Harold Wiseberg to touch up carry Thorneley's photo, spent
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a couple of days in Tacoma following up leads on Chrisman. While there,
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Nuwcomb learned that Rose had been snooping around town earlier that year and making claims
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that Chrisman had been known to transport large sums of money to several cities in
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the country and that he had no visible means of support. Rose later claimed
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that he had been shot at while in Tacoma and barely got out of town
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a lot of this. So there you have it. That comes from my
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buddy Adam go Wreatley's beautiful blog Historia disaploria dot com about Kaula McNabb, William
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Wood and a couple other quote CIA infiltrators into the Garrison investigation. And interestingly
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enough, Fred Nucom passed along Sotos along to his circle assassination researchers that included
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Penn Jones Jr. Who was able to verify that Rose was indeed the mystery
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man. And the photos identifies as identified as Steve Wilson of inter Penn,
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Jerry Hemming Fame, Lauren Hall, Lawrence Howard. So that's interesting. And
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according to Garrison, from his book on the Trail of the Assassins, he
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spoke very glowingly of Rose in Boxley he called Rose or Carl McNabb or Steve
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Wilson, whatever you want to call him, an urbane, very bright young
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man who had grown up in Latin America and spoke Spanish like a native.
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He was useful in the interviews with Cuban exiles, and he was accepted after
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a strong recommendation from Boxley, who had known him back in his agency days.
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Rose McNabb, Wilson, whatever you want to call him, had a
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number of photographs showing himself instructing anti cast guerrilla trainees at the No Name Key
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training camp with Independent in Florida back in the early sixties. So there you
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have it. Corroboration, folks, of some very interesting connections between all of
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these colorful characters and Bill Boxley and Carl McNabb and and and the like,
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so very interesting stuff. So it was Boxley a bad guy? Was he
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really a subversive CI agent trying to sabotage the Garrison investigation? Or was he
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an embittered former CI agent enlisted by Garrison to help fight the very agency that
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he once worked for and proved them responsible to the assassination of John F.
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Kennedy. Well that's up for debate, but we can hear from the man
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himself. I happen to have an interview with Bill Boxley done by George Vernaar
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from nineteen seventy one over the course of a week a week long, and
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it starts off this when I interviewed Boxley be hereinafter in Dallas when August the
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thirty, thirty, first and third of September seventy one. The results of
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these conversations are set forth below. The talks dealt mainly with charges and allegations
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made by others against B. Some interesting digressions are included by interpolated comments are
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in brackets, and Mary Farrell was present during most of the talks B at
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the CIA. So Bee's job at the CIA was training foreign agents. He
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was overseas for more than a year, then returned to DC to join the
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staff of six. Wait. He was overseas for more than a year and
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then returned to DC to join his staff of six. For over a year.
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He taught his classes from case histories of the CIA operations the field work
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his students would attempt to operate in DC. If they could do so successfully
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under the noses of the FBI, they could do so against any counter espionage
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agency in the world. Bee's first wife also was CIA and they were overseas
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on the same operation. So basically, Boxy saying that he helped to train
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foreign agents, they would run mock operations in DC, and if they could
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get away with it without turning up any FBI interest in their operations, then
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they can do it anywhere in the world. So box to the left the
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CI in nineteen fifty three and has no further contact and has had no further
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contact with it except a couple of times to pass on information which had come
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to his attention. B had a serious drinking problem while he was at the
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CIA. He would not asked to resign, although CIA apparently was not too
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depressed at his leaving. The CIA tried to help him with his drinking problem,
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and B still has feelings of admiration and respect towards the CIA. The
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student who contacted Garrison's office about being recruited, I was talking about William B.
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Wood, the long time overt CIA recruiter who lives in Austin and as
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an office in Waco right next to the FBI. After Boxley was fired,
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he went to talk to this man, but he was hostile. Maybe as
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early as the fall of sixty seven, Boxley told Garrison, Tom Bethel,
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and one or two others about William B. Wood. Now I'm sorry how
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Boxley went to work for Garrison. So Boxley never investigated the Rose Sheremy case,
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and it had nothing to do with his coming to work for Garrison.
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Boxley did here Louisiana State Police Colonel Ben Morgan and as an investigator Lieutenant France
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as if you talk about it, though Jeremy supposedly recounted the story to them
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when they were flying Herd to Houston to make a drug pickup in mid April
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nineteen sixty seven, b was an editor on the Houston Tribune working for Theodore
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Law and wanted stories on Garrison. Boxley source was Ben Morgan. Fruge was
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at the Holiday Inn, and after Boxley called Morgan, Morgan told Fruge to
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contact Boxley. He got together with Fruge, Malosia, and a girl at
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the Houston Tribune. Boxley intended to get a job with Garrison or with the
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Wackenhoot Organization, which had been hired by Florida Governor Kirk to work on the
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mafia. Boxley, who had not been to New Orleans since nineteen fifty five,
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was hired by Garrison after a two hour interview. Garrison asked Boxley to
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take a polygraph, and he agreed. A day or two after he was
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hired, the State's Item had a headline on Oswald being linked to the CIA
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at Sugi. Boxley got scared that perhaps Garrison was using him as a kid's
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Paul. When the New Orleans PD polygraph examiner invited B to take his test,
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B was unstrong and asked to wait an hour or so. Oh,
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come on, said the examiner. B had run six to seven thousand charts
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himself and said he would get a hell of a rolling chart. The examiner
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said, it's okay. He did get a rolling chart. The examiner said,
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you've lied on every question. Now let's go see Garrison. Boxley replied
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that he had lied only when he stated his last name to be Boxley.
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So Garrison, Alcock, Ivon, and William Martin heard the results together,
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and Garrison did not seem to perturb to Alcock told Ivon, lou let me
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have your gun. I'll kill the son of a bitch right now. So
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Boxley fund the CIA. The call was taped by Boxley, and Martin was
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also listening in. Boxley asked for DC information, it was given the CIA
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number. He had the operator dial the number. When they got the CIA,
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he asked for and spoke to a certain person he had last communicated with
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from El Paso in nineteen fifty seven. Alcock and Ivan later heard B's tape
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and reported to Garrison that the man spoke in an enthusiastic, spontaneous, and
25:17
friendly fashion. BE told the man he was applying for a job with golf
25:21
Oil and wanted a reference from the CIA. The man said it would be
25:25
all right to state that he had worked for the CIA, and that to
25:29
write the Director of Personnel for a letter to that effect. When B asked,
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the man said it would not be necessary to identify the project by its
25:37
code name, and asking for the letter. BE told him that he was
25:40
no longer drinking, which came as a pleasant surprise to the CIA man.
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He said that he had read about the man and a recent book on the
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CIA, and that the book had downgraded his position. B will not elaborate,
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citing the National Security Act. About a year later, BE learned from
25:56
the telephone call that the telephone call probably was recorded. He had received a
26:02
memorandum asking him to call Dick Billings, who was trying to get in with
26:06
the office again. When B asked why the memorandum specifically told him to use
26:10
an office phone, he was told that the NPD was taping office calls.
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He says they got at least all long distance calls and continuous reports on conversations
26:19
over office phones were sent up by the NPD, so a week or so
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after his first polygraph, they ran a second one. He was irritated and
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nervous and got a very jagged chart, even though the examiner had cleared it,
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or so he claimed. The examiner contended that the test showed that Be
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never had been with the CIA, but they'd been sent to penetrate the office.
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Nobody paid much attention, so Be's work and workstop be sent spent several
26:52
weeks at the beginning working with William Martin. Also in those days, everyone
26:56
was sent to Barbara Reid, who had a lot of different nation about the
27:00
French quarter. What was a puppet of Mumu Chambra, whom b seems to
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consider the NUDA New Orleans d eminence Greece. Be complained, so Garrison told
27:14
him to do whatever he wanted. Paranthetically Shiambra's liberal exterior mass a fervent admiration
27:22
for Congressman John Rerick Frugie is another fan. He's first road assignment was to
27:27
Dallas to check Lee Odom. This was late June or mid July. He
27:36
started averaging twenty days a month on the road and what matches hours against any
27:40
two of the New Orleans people except Garrison. That's a myth to having been
27:47
incognito and secretive and doing most of it is reporting to Garrison personally. He
27:52
was not very happy with some members of the staff and also did not want
27:56
to have to die for reporters. He did not sign memoranda because he was
28:00
leery of possible CIA retaliation and of possible publicity. As an instance of the
28:07
latter B sites the chart he made in the late sixty eight showing relationships between
28:11
various people, with the central character being Andy Anderson. This doodle was inflated
28:17
into B's version of the assassination Conspiracy, and a copy was given to Paul
28:21
Rothemol by Harold Wiseberg at about the time Boxley was fired. Now, for
28:27
folks who may not be familiar with the name Andy Anderson, I would urge
28:33
you to go back and listen to but Hits. Let's see what episode was
28:37
that. I'll remember we had archaeologist Jeffrey Shanks on talking about that very thing,
28:45
so very interesting. Absolutely denies having scaredy black investigator with stories about a
28:56
pencric lobotamy technique, although he knows of such a techno were of having convinced
29:00
the man the people were after him. Boxley met him only once, when
29:06
the man was waiting to see how Cock to resign. Jianbra had brought him
29:10
into the office to investigate the black witnesses in Clinton, Louisiana, where he
29:14
was cornered outside a boarding house, away from his gun by ten blacks who
29:18
threatened him and told him to leave. Regarding the Clinton incident, Boxley says
29:22
that the major white witnesses were all members of the Ku Klux Klan, and
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Boxley feels this seriously damages the credibility of the story. Boxley was fired the
29:33
Sunday before the Monday in which the US Supreme Court announced it's Clay clay Shaw
29:40
decision. The office already had advanced notice through a contact at the Court.
29:45
This is not the first time I've heard of such helpful contacts. Erstan Foray.
29:53
There have been a conference at Matt Heron's house, the gist of which
29:56
was that Boxley was mister inside, Bill Turner was mister outside. Steve Jaffee
30:03
and Jim Rose were agents, and the office had been saved in the niked
30:07
time by Wiseburg and Cylandria. Boxley wonders whether Wiseberg and Cilandria were fronting for
30:12
Garrison in this or whether they did indeed, convinced Garrison that Boxley was an
30:17
agent. He is highly suspicious of the motives of Wiseburg and especially Cylandria.
30:25
Interesting. Boxley had just gotten back into town and telephoned Garrison's home. Calandria
30:32
answered and began insulting Boxley regarding his Robert Perrin work. Cilandria invited Boxley over
30:40
to defend his work, saying I want a piece of your ass. He
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called back the second time, at around nine pm from the restaurant at Carlos
30:51
Marcella's Talent Country motel, where he had gone to think the situation over and
30:56
await Garrison's return. Sol Andrea again answered, and by so he asked of
31:00
Garrison, I returned yet, and Solandery replied no, Boxley, but you
31:03
are fired, and here's lou Ivon and Lucienbert to tell you about it.
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Boxley decided there was no point continuing the conversation, so he put the phone
31:12
back on the hook with the same eloquence I had seen Garrison used many times,
31:17
and drove to the holiday in Orange Texas. Boxley feels that if he
31:23
had gone to Garrison's house that night, he might have been murdered. Boxley
31:29
knew that the prosecution did not want to go to trial, and in mid
31:32
nineteen sixty eight, he stepped into Garrison's office during a meeting of Garrison,
31:36
Ward, Alcock, Ivon, and Shiambra. Garrison said that Boxley was trustworthy
31:41
and asked him to stay. Boxley learned at that meeting that Garrison had no
31:45
case against Shaw, but Boxley. When I specify how he came to that
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conclusion, Boxley's thirty eight had been stolen from his par While I was into
31:55
service station used for New Orleans d vehicles. Ivan kept assuring Boxley that it
32:00
would turn up, and Boxley would say, yeah, it's a scene of
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an unsolved crime. The normally humorless Ivon would chuckle him. Boxley feared that
32:09
with an upcoming trial, the prosecution knew it would lose. The only way
32:14
out would be to fake an incident. Was a better way to win the
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chase beforehand in the press than to Boxley. The CIA agent in quotes killed
32:22
while attempting to murder Gearson wow As an aside, Boxley feels that one of
32:30
the reasons for staff hostility towards him was that he made more money than they
32:32
did, asserting Guy Banister he earned FBI fame and j Edgar who was undying
32:42
gratitude when he filched the Nazi diplomatic code from the Mexico City Embassy. Embassy
32:50
Okay Boxley once saw him memorandum from Delphine Roberts informing Banister that she'd obtained for
32:57
him at post office box in the name of some organization. The memorandum contained
33:00
a diagram of the boxes combination dial Boxley also saw a letter from Banister to
33:07
Guy Johnston stating that Banister had recruited a couple of students, one of whom
33:10
drove a taxi, and a Loyola Library employee who would ascertain who checked out
33:17
pro communist books. Banister undoubtedly was a government agent of some sort, but
33:23
there's little possibility that Banister with CIA. It is quite probable that he was
33:28
FBI, but he could have been known I. Manister's files contained a detailed
33:31
report two files on what he suspected was the use of Takka Airlines as a
33:37
government communications channel. The report gave the names of the crew of the flight
33:43
in question, and particulars of the operation. Banister stated, we may have
33:49
cut across a CIA operation and should therefore proceed with extreme caution and extremely unlikely
33:54
that a CIA agent would write such a report. Uh. In a conversation
34:01
with Boxley and sixty seven, Paul Rothamel expressed surprise when Banister was dead.
34:08
Quote maybe he was putting me on concerning Andy Anderson. Paul Rothammel and Leodom
34:15
Boxley knew Rothamel before he had ever heard of Garrison. The first week Boxley
34:21
was in Dallas for Garrison, he and Rothermel launched are launched Sorry at the
34:27
Petroleum Club. Rotha Mel said that he did not know about Lee Oswald,
34:30
but quote, I know for a fact that Ruby is an FBI informant.
34:37
I was an FBI informant. Rotha Mell and Banister left the FBI at about
34:46
the same time. Anderson also was on Ruby's special Carousel Cup Club pass list,
34:55
along with the head of the Dallas Miniman and his sidekick. The niece
35:00
said that Anderson's brother, who acted as a sort of aide de camp to
35:04
Anderson, had lots of fascinating travels and had been a card carrying communist.
35:08
Boxley feels that perhaps this is just innocent, but maybe to protect the counterespionage
35:13
operation, Odom tried to get Anderson's niece, a bullfight fan, to introduce
35:19
him to her uncle, who wanted Odom to contact Anderson. Both Odom and
35:23
Anderson gave stories to the Dallas Times Harold regarding how and why they met Shaul.
35:30
Later, each altered their story within the day of the others. The
35:36
King's Club was frequent by Rothermel, Anderson, and Ruby. Anderson's connection with
35:42
the Dallas FBI was his very close friend Will Griffin. While Boxley was in
35:46
Dallas, Anderson was at the Hilton from a policeman. Boxley got on a
35:50
ledged list of Anderson's phone calls, and the first number falled was the FBI.
35:58
Rothermel, of course his DPD connections. He is close to George Butler.
36:02
Sometime HL hunt driver. Rothermel told Boxley that if Jack Ravell quote Kostie
36:10
Ravel is accurate, indicating a close enough acquaintance with both men to feel qualified
36:15
to make such a judgment. Once in Rothermel's office, Boxley met a DPD
36:20
bugging expert named he thinks Singleton and sername Robert Lee Perny. When Nancy Perrin
36:29
Rich returned to New Orleans, she worked for a fire extinguisher firm called Justice
36:34
Enterprises, headed by one first name unknown Justice. It was in a three
36:37
office building with Litton Industries and more business forums. It folded in late sixty
36:44
three and Justice went to Saint Petersburg, Florida. Boxley was told by Tommy
36:49
Boemler, a near Nazi, that its lawyers were also the lawyers for the
36:53
Jewish underground that got Eichman. A possible intelligence connection. Aga Aikman was the
37:00
first spotted by as Simon Weasenhal but the Jewish Documentation Center in Vienna, Fluke
37:06
I might add, and then snagged by the Israeli government. Boxley denies saying
37:12
that Nancy was the RFK sling girl in the polka dot dress. That was
37:16
Bill Turner. The Turner called back from Los Angeles two or three days later
37:22
and said that the identification had fallen through. The allegation had been made that
37:27
Boxley claimed that the parents were in New Orleans to get a conspiracy going in
37:30
nineteen sixty one, that they had picked the wharf, but the attitudes of
37:35
the New Orleans Police Chief Gia Russo prevented their plans from bearing fruit. Boxley
37:42
says the wharf as an assassination site was found by Turner, who went there
37:46
with Boxley after they found the Karen's apartment. Boxley agrees that it is an
37:52
ideal assassination site, but denies saying anything other than it was a possibility to
37:58
terns where they were just a purpose. Since he knows nothing about the attitudes
38:01
of Gerussoe, he could not say whether they were the reason the parents were
38:06
not able to participate in an assassination conspiracy in New Orleans in nineteen sixty one.
38:13
It was Garrison, not Boxley, who loudly proclaimed that Pern was on
38:16
the knoll. Boxley did say, however, that he has four reliable witnesses
38:22
to say that Pern worked at the downtown Lincoln Mercury under another name. After
38:25
the assassination, Garrison was more enthusiastic from Boxley about parent as a solution to
38:31
the assassination. What Boxley said was to postulate a good cover being to kill
38:37
off one's agent legally. Before the operation, several people knew Robert and Nancy
38:45
Perrin as Jack and Nancy Starr. For a while, federal agents were asking
38:49
people if they knew of a friend of Jack Stars named Gympie in some East
38:53
Texas County, which is the center of the regious militancy nyed by a lawyer
39:00
named Judge Baker. Corps was found on noon fourteenth, nineteen sixty four,
39:06
minus ahead, hands and legs from the knees down. It has been on
39:10
ice since then and several hundred people have been unable to identify it. The
39:15
head had been severed quite far down, almost to the collar bone, obviously
39:20
not done by the average nut with an axe. While removing head and hands
39:23
as a standard way to keep a corpse from being identified, Boxley felt the
39:28
only reason for removing the legs would be the same. Removing only one leg,
39:31
the bad one, would be a giveaway, so removing both legs makes
39:36
more sense. He feels it is a distinct possibility that the corpse is indeed
39:44
Gimpy Hey, gimpy boy. Karen's brother says he was a hell of a
39:52
good shot that they went hunting together. From Boxley feels the whole matter is
39:55
that tremendous mystery. It needs more investigation. Honestly. His suspicious that Nancy
40:00
testified at all, so there was no need. Two weekscept that she testified,
40:05
the FBI sent a letter to the NPD asking for all their raw material
40:09
when Robert Parent's death. It was sent, but the FBI never returned it.
40:15
The night that Robert Parren died, Nancy had the car in Baton Rouge.
40:19
Paren got to ride home with a black co worker named Bars. As
40:22
usual, they stopped at Walgreen's drug store, where Parn came out carrying a
40:28
small paper sack. Parren told Bars to let him off at the corner rather
40:31
than in front of his apartment, as was the usual arrangement. He told
40:36
Bars to pick him up at seven am on the corner, but oddly not
40:39
to wait if he wasn't there. Drug store records and witnesses do not reflect
40:45
the purchase by Parent of anything containing arsenic or or ethol ether. The downstairs
40:52
made, whom B considers reliable, says she never saw an empty ether can
40:55
in the trash, and that she would have known if ether was around because
41:00
employer was allergic to it. The autopsy papers contained no mention of the esophagus,
41:05
which would have been inflamed by the ingestion of ether. There is no
41:08
record of the esophagus ever being examined. A later dated addition to the autopsy
41:14
report cited ingestion of ether as the cause of death, leaving some question as
41:19
to the four ounces of arsenic inside Robert Perron. Joel Palmer was working with
41:24
Barbara Reid on Parren, and she said she saw and was a trying to
41:29
obtain a corner's report describing scratches and Robert Parren's esophagus, which would be consistent
41:36
with beast theory that parn was hit on the head. Two doctors who read
41:40
the autopsy reports said that it describes a blow to the head shortly before death,
41:45
kept under with ether and had arsenic forced down his throat. Nancy testified
41:53
that both she and Parron had had published under the name of Star. It
41:58
was stronger than that. However, quite a people knew them unemployment and socially
42:01
as Jack and Nancy Starr. Also, the corpse in New Orleans does not
42:07
seem, from the autopsy description to have a certain known parent characteristics, such
42:12
as an amputated rate index FINGERTIP. Federal agents managed to confiscate the singer Prince
42:17
of parents all over the country, but they did not get them all.
42:21
Check's letters show that Moreland one person was signing things as Nancy parn Interesting and
42:30
we talked about a boy Jim Rose a little earlier, and Boxley says he's
42:35
suspicious that perhaps Rose was an agent while working for Garrison. Rose never told
42:39
Boxley that he had been a CI agent, just as he performed some services
42:45
for him for them. Boxley once picked up ten hundred dollar bills in an
42:50
office to deliver to Rose for his trip to Seattle to investigate Fred Lee Chrisman.
42:55
Rose bought a car for the trip. Boxley sites Rose's possession of the
43:00
First Secretary's cards reason for a suspicion of his status. Also, once Rose
43:07
was staying at the Romata end, he had picked up a couple of Boxley's
43:09
habits, like wearing a pen and smoking Benson and Hedges. Boxley entered the
43:15
end to call Rose from the house phone. There was a pay phone next
43:20
to it, in front of which was an empty Benson and Hedge's box with
43:22
a phone number written at being picked it up. He called Rose, who
43:27
came down and they talked. Boxley showed him the box and rasped him about
43:31
being a better operative than to leave an identifiable telephone number laying around. Rose
43:37
admitted it was his handwriting, but did not seem excited and left the box
43:39
laying on the table where box they put it. The number was that of
43:44
Delta air Freight. Boxy checked, and Rose had no air freight coming or
43:47
going. The use of airlines as clandestine government communications channels. Now, let's
44:00
look at the mafia contract on Garrison. Boxley feels this was legitimate, that
44:06
the mafia was out to kill Garrison. When the office heard the allegation,
44:12
Lynn Loizille said he had better contact Regis Kennedy, then stopped dialing and said
44:16
Ivon would want to do it. Ivon agreed. Boxley seems to consider this
44:22
significant for reasons unknown to me, so Louizille called the state police instead.
44:29
At the time, Garrison was in Albuquerque and was going to there to Los
44:34
Angeles. Boxley had Albuquerque Deputy Sheriff's credentials number three thirteen. He did not
44:40
recognize the irony until I mentioned it. Yeah, a prouder fra frame three
44:46
thirteen. Deputy of John Gonzale said he was assigned immediately five men to guard
44:52
Garrison. Boxley flew to Albuquerque in part to act as bodyguard for Garrison,
44:58
mostly because nobody else wanted to. Garrison had spoken the night before and insisted
45:01
on getting to Los Angeles that night because he had a date, an ice
45:06
storm and ground of the airlines, and Garrison wanted to rent a private private
45:09
plane. They finally managed to fly on Western or Frontier to Denver, then
45:15
by United to Los Angeles. Garrison ended up that night at Stefanino's on the
45:22
Sunset Strip. Garrison had told Boxley to contact the LAPD regarding the mafia contract.
45:30
Two members of the vice squad entered Stefanino's. One said to Boxley,
45:34
you stupid son of a bitch. Are you supposed to be his bodyguard?
45:37
Boxley said he was and was told that Stefanino's was the biggest mafia joint in
45:43
town. The cops bellied up to the bar and within seconds to cocktail lounds
45:46
almost emptied. Garrison was in the dining room, and one of the LAPD
45:52
officers said that night said that one of those he had chased off was a
45:55
shotgun artist sitting at a table right across from your ball, Boxley fields the
46:01
mafia contract was canceled by people of great influence because killing Garrison would make a
46:07
martyr out of him, with a court defeat would discredit him. Edgar Eugene
46:16
Bradley and the Los Angeles trip, Garrison stayed at the International Hotel at the
46:22
airport. He read it through There is applied Blue and the desk Kirk.
46:28
The desk clerk grinned. Garrison was not converted to charging Bradley once he was
46:34
in Los Angeles. He went there intending to get Bradley for something. The
46:37
day after the Stefanino's incident, Turner came down with some Bradley photos and an
46:43
advanced copy of the January sixty eight Ramparts magazine. Boxley and Turner went to
46:50
see ate A. Lott and Thornhill. When shown a photo of the walking
46:54
Men Tramps eighty Light's comment was, Jeanne always did wear his shoes run down
47:01
at the heels. The day after being Turner went to see Dennis Mauer and
47:07
Lancaster. They had to go through intermediaries and be checked out before they met
47:10
him. The third day, Garrison ordered that Bradley be charged. Garrison was
47:15
hunting for Bradley for a special reason. Boxley is playing hide the ball with
47:21
the reason, and while all he's saying that he is not proud of the
47:23
reason, whether it was not any personal vendetta. Garrison sent Jaffee to New
47:30
Orleans with instructions to charge Bradley, but daff refused. In any event,
47:37
Jaffey was considered a lightweight. Boxley went in forn, went to a pay
47:39
phone and called the office. Al Cox said they were in the middle of
47:44
a staff meeting, that nobody would sign the complaint. The Garrison had a
47:49
tantrum and said he would fire them all. Boxley talked him into phoning.
47:54
Garrison spent thirty minutes on the phone, and the complaint was signed. Boxley
47:59
had not heard that Jack Lawrence, Lawren Hall, Lawrence Howard, and William
48:04
Seymour were to be charged as well. This was the case. Nobody had
48:07
told him. It was not built. It was not Boxley and Turner,
48:12
but Dick Billings in life who had Garrison running after Hall, Howard and Seymour.
48:16
They lost to interest in Garrison as he lost interest in their favorite suspects.
48:21
As to Jack Lawrence, Garrison later was searching for a reason to charge
48:23
him with anything that he could. Boxley never said that Bradley was a killer
48:29
or even that he was in the CIA. From witnesses claimed Bradley was in
48:34
covert FBI activities under a naval cover. Then there with Bradley's important role in
48:38
the JA grew who were for president activities, Boxley felt that if anything,
48:43
Bradley was FBI. The allegation had been made that Boxley claimed that Eric Starvo
48:50
Gult met Bradley and that the Van Eys Wallace for President's office was just a
48:53
front. Boxley denies this and never and never even heard of the allegation before.
49:00
In Los Angeles, everybody was jumpy over the Maffie allegation. Boxley says
49:06
that Sacramento, in the LAPD as well as the telephone tip said there was
49:09
such a contract. Garrison and Boxley admit Larry Schiller earlier that evening. Also,
49:16
Boxley was with Garrison when he insulted a Los Angeles Times reporter named Dreyfus
49:22
because he did not like that paper. So Boxley was in his room and
49:25
trying to paper the insult over, and Garrison was in his own room,
49:30
not Boxley's the bellhop knocked and handed be a manila envelope unmarked with something hard
49:36
inside. It was a copy of Schiller's book, but Boxley was jumpy,
49:40
so he placed it in the bathtub, but without running water, and closed
49:45
the door. Later he opened it and learned what it was, thankfully not
49:52
a bomb. Regarding Richard case Nagel, Boxley and Jones Harris were to have
50:01
met Nagel in New York. Thirty to sixty minutes before the meeting, Nagel's
50:07
sister phoned him. Nagel had called her from the airport and said he had
50:09
two friends with him. She said to bring them along, and he said
50:14
they weren't that good of friends. So Nagel was being tailed. Regarding Private
50:21
Eugene Dincon, Boxley says it was a very interesting story, including how Dincon
50:25
turned up in New York. Boxley's basic reaction as that Dincon's paranoia deserves the
50:32
second look for one thing, but they do not take people like Dincon into
50:37
crypto work, the importance of which is second only to nuclear topics. He
50:42
was in Europe handling coated Algerian traffic when he came rushing into the next room,
50:45
saying that the president was going to be killed in Dallas. Boxley also
50:52
thinks he named the date. He was taken to a military hospital under heavy
50:55
guard after he told his captain about his intercept. Then unprecedentally, he was
51:00
taken later to Walter Reed Hospital. Boxley says the league came from a Dincon
51:07
acquaintance. At Fort Hood, Boxley talked to a Chillion boy who provided him
51:14
with the present whereabouts of members of Dincon's unit. Basically, they were the
51:19
military police. Dincon took a polygraph in Chicago and has the results with him.
51:24
Boxley feels that he has gotten to and is now just parroting a false
51:30
story Miscellaneous. It was Garrison, not Boxley, who said the CIA had
51:38
agents running double or triple duty. Boxley never believed this, since compartmentalization is
51:44
elementary security. Also, Boxley never said that the assassination team is still operating.
51:51
He is sure that they, in their output, died within hours of
51:53
the assassination. Loyalty, after all, never can be predicted. One day,
52:00
Garrison was reading the text of AG's report and came dashing into the office.
52:05
He had discovered that when breck Wall first moved to Dallas, he had
52:08
a little bar once he applied for something or other and gave two personal references,
52:14
one of which was Earl Cabell. Wall was in Houston the same time
52:17
as Fairy and got a phone call in Galveston from Ruby a few hours before
52:22
Oswald was shot. B designed and got Penn Jones to print a leaflet which
52:30
Boxley showed Rothermell and urged him to use. It was to be wrapped around
52:35
copies of the Hepburn book and said something about how the book was being distributed
52:38
by hl Hunt and the interests of free speech. The reader may imagine the
52:44
reception it got. After Boxley left Garrison's employee, he learned that the CIA
52:49
has a Garrison desk. After he was fired. About three weeks after,
52:54
he got a call from a private investigator that he did not know. He
52:58
believes the man's name was Walter Holloway. Holloway offered him a job, but
53:04
Boxley refused because the employer was to be ed Wegman, that is Clay Shawn's
53:08
lawyer. Boxley's present feeling is that the assassination was engineered by the joint chiefs
53:15
of staff. I do not eliminate the possibility that the joint chiefs were fronting
53:20
for or inclusion with the CIA. The background, Boxley says, read Kennedy's
53:24
Private War and it's probably something of the Live seventy one New York Review of
53:30
Books. Since weaving the plot structure took a lot of work, Boxley wonders
53:35
what Alan Dullis was doing after his retirement. Boxley feels that the investigation was
53:39
controlled enough that the volumes and archives are of minimal irrelevance. Huh. Dallas
53:47
is crammed with emigrads who would be an FBI concern and with firms which send
53:54
people all over the world. This makes it of interest as to espionage and
53:59
counter ESPIONA activities. Boxley also feels that the confusion arising from the multiplicity of
54:07
such people and operations was the reason that Dallas was chosen as the assassination site.
54:15
So there you haven't folks. That is the musings of Bill Boxley,
54:24
also known as William Wood, former CI agent and employee into the District Attorney's
54:35
Office investigation of Clay Shaw into the murder of John F. Kennedy. So
54:42
was he legit or not? Was he above board or not? We can
54:52
only speculate at this point. Anyway, that's it for your boy. This
54:58
has been episode number two hundred and thirty eight. Follow along on TikTok and
55:02
Twitter at the Lone Gumbing seven, on Facebook the Lone gum and Facebook page,
55:07
and on YouTube the Lone Gumbing podcast channel. Thank you, we've reached
55:12
a thousand subscribers. Baby, keep sharing and liking and go get yourself some
55:22
goddamn hot sauce please who and enjoy the sweet daucing tones of Shepherd of Fire
55:34
and they're hitting single and spirit seed. Yea the life and tell you the
56:14
biggest that you tay came getting the little boy waiting all was so far the
56:37
trumper up and be gone, the tumple, the pain I do with song
56:45
and they go, simper song, don't be one. Let me tell you
57:10
down the piggy thing that you champa wait tie wait si situation of my rain
57:37
from me for canning him. We got him here and he felt me down
57:43
and back head of his car one was on him heading and the canny cried
57:46
on on down me one the the biggest bttkid. Ye ain't the way alway
58:30
I'm aware alway I get a fancy as