Latest / Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves / 155: Jeff "The Hornet" Horn - WBO Welterweight Champion to Teaching Respect through Bullyproof

Transcript

155: Jeff "The Hornet" Horn - WBO Welterweight Champion to Teaching Respect through Bullyproof · Career Clarity with Athletes: A 2ndwind Podcast with Ryan Gonsalves

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: For you then, with a partner, with a house, what was the most difficult part of that leap, that change?
• 0:06
  Speaker 1: And I'm thinking there's the financial side.
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: There's then the performance side, isn't as an amateur, but it's in order to earn.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Did those friendship circles change From your life?
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Would you look at that point?
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: What else had to shift?
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: Look, my friendship circle was pretty good.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I had some really good friends.
• 0:26
  Speaker 2: I still kept from high school and we all had the same kind of things that we're interested in.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: The thing that I've been interested in, and I still am interested in, is playing board games for entertainment.
• 0:35
  Speaker 2: Not going out and drinking and things like that and partying, but just staying at home and playing a couple of board games with friends.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: That's a good night out for me.
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: It's not even out, it's a good night in.
• 0:49
  Speaker 3: Hi, I'm Ryan Gonsalves and welcome to a Second Wind Academy podcast, a show all about career transition through the lens of elite athletes.
• 0:59
  Speaker 3: Each week, I invite a guest to the show who shares their unique sporting story.
• 1:04
  Speaker 3: Please join me to delve into the thoughts and actions of athletes through a series of conversations.
• 1:10
  Speaker 3: Don't worry, there's plenty to learn from those of you that aren't particularly sporty.
• 1:14
  Speaker 3: Elite athletes are still people afterwards.
• 1:17
  Speaker 3: Let's be inspired by the stories of others.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: Jeff, I want to say welcome to the Career Clarity podcast.
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: It's great to have you on here with me today.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: No worries.
• 1:27
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, Ryan.
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: Excellent Look.
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: I'm always appreciative of individuals sharing their time and really just sharing their story about career transition, about figuring out what on earth do we do, in your case, once we step out of the ring, certainly on a full-time basis.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: So I'm looking forward to getting stuck into this chat today.
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: Yes, sure, well, look for those who are joining us today.
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: Give us the, give us the infomercial about yourself.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Look, I'm a former school well, former bullied school kid really, but I don't really kind of like that title too much.
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: But look, I was a school kid, went through some problems and I became a teacher because I love my school work a lot.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: And then I got into boxing at a late age and become a world boxing champion.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: And now these days I'm working hard to solve the problem of bullying in schools, right, so there's going to be the problem of bullying in schools.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: So there's going to be a lot for us to delve into there.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit about your current focus, this current mission on solving bullying in school.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's huge.
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: Just about everybody can relate to that, I think.
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it's tough too.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: There's a lot of roads.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: You could go on for the problem.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: There's lots of things out there that are doing absolutely great work in this space, and but what we're kind of creating is education around this issue and how basically people deal with conflict, day-to-day conflict, which can turn into bullying if it's not managed correctly.
• 3:01
  Speaker 2: So we're trying to teach kids step by step of how you can manage certain social situations and how to treat people better so that, hopefully, bullying doesn't happen to them so sort of how do you do that?
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: so, are you in schools, are you online?
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: What's what's that program structure?
• 3:19
  Speaker 2: yeah, well, I go talk at a lot of schools that have the program in there, but basically we have a learning platform where the teachers will teach lesson plans based on specific things in those lessons.
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: To kind of go through the teachers, because they're the mentors for the kids.
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: I can't multiply myself and put myself in everywhere as well, and I know there's a lot better teachers out there than I am and we can use those teachers as basically soldiers to soldiers, people that can basically get the word out and change the attitude of these kids spokespeople, ambassadors, uh, champions, just say, yeah, getting out there.
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: So for you, you know you opened up.
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: I asked, you know, for that infomercial.
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: You started off by you know saying you were, you know, bullied as a kid.
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: How did that?
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: I've never spoken to someone who would, who would openly do that, and it's always something where I guess, as I take myself back, whilst I hope I never was a bully, there are certainly some issues where I start to think, yeah, how did those friends did those friends turn out who I knew were bullied?
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: How did it shape you?
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Look, I can remember feeling quite depressed at some stages at school.
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: Normally my main problem area was grade 8,.
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: Grade 9, were probably the troubled times for me and where I was trying to find my feet in a high school.
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: That was what 10 times the size, maybe even more bigger, than my primary school that I went to.
• 4:49
  Speaker 2: So there was a lot of potential conflict situations that happened at that school.
• 4:53
  Speaker 2: For me, and I guess as a bit of a segue, how did that shape your entry into boxing as a way of defense, or are they not related kind of kind of in a way it does, because I did get into a couple of fights fights at schools where I I didn't go too well either, but I knew going out later as a, as an adult, where you go out night clubbing, things like that, I was like I'm gonna have to learn to protect myself and protect my girlfriend that I was going out with uh, which is now my wife, so to protect her as well yeah, okay, well, so tell me a bit then about you know, because obviously you're famous in in the boxing context, so I'm curious then as to what you were doing as a kid.
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: So growing up, was sport something, or how important was sport to you as you were growing up?
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: That's a big one really, because sport was what I wanted to do for a living.
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: Sport was it.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: That was the end goal, right?
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: It was a dream for a six-year-old kid when I started to think about it and I started playing soccer or football, and I played that for 12 years.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: We can go with football.
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: That's good for me.
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: Oh so football was your original sort of the sport.
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: That's where you really wanted to go as far as you could.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: It is, but it wasn't good enough, unfortunately.
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: No, no, no.
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: Well, so during that phase.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: So you're wanting to be pushing football, finding out you weren't good enough, or did you figure that out yourself?
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: Or was it very much a trial?
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: You're not.
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: You're not in.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: You're not in.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: You're not in it took.
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it took a long time and I tried for many years to to get better and better at at the sport but I just kept getting knocked back and not getting selected for certain things.
• 6:44
  Speaker 2: So I was lost, like, got to that basically 18 years old mark and was like I should have been selected or in teams by now and maybe it's time to start doing something else and so what did you do for that?
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: something else.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: I went to the martial arts gym that's right here just to kind of learn some self-defense stuff, not as a as a sport, and I that's where I found boxing at that gym oh, okay, and so this was a bit to do with, I guess, at 18, going out, but it's funny, I had this.
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: I had a conversation this morning with, I guess, looking forward to chatting with you with a guy who's a an amateur boxer and talking about, you know, learning as a kid versus perhaps learning as an adult as you start to go out and, well, not compete, but start to go out in clubs and things like that, and to what extent should you have some form of self-defense?
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: And it sounds like that was something that inspired you to get into it.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: Yeah like I knew I needed to kind of learn some basic kind of stuff so I could protect myself and my partner at the time.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: But definitely there was talent there and my coach realized it and said it to me straight away and that's what I grabbed onto and just worked hard.
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: I've got to ask Jeff, where were you going out?
• 8:00
  Speaker 2: The valley, the city.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Remind me never to be going there.
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: It sounds quite dangerous, unless you're next it's dangerous for everyone.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: What are you talking about?
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: Every valley and city that places have, there's always risks out there because there's risks of pissing someone off and them hitting you.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: So if you say the wrong thing or look at someone wrong, sometimes going out you're, you become a target yeah, there's it, unfortunately.
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: It is very true.
• 8:26
  Speaker 1: So help me understand then.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: So you're, we're looking at this football path.
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: That's not turning out.
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: You've figured that piece out.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: You then the social side, the martial art.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: What were you going to be doing instead of football?
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Where?
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: What was this other career path, or?
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: You know that that you were then going to move towards yeah, that's.
• 8:44
  Speaker 2: That's where I had my backup plan, because during the end of school from basically grade 11, grade 12, I had some awesome teachers and I loved my HPE classes and, of course, I wanted to do sport for a living.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: But if I couldn't do sport for a living as a professional sports person, I wanted to be teaching sport.
• 9:03
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to be involved in that aspect in one way or another and um, being a hpe teacher, secondary school was the goal right, so so, basically health, physical education.
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: That as a you would became that primary school, secondary school.
• 9:20
  Speaker 1: What was the?
• 9:20
  Speaker 2: I was secondary school trained, but I ended up doing majority of my teaching in a primary school, so as a classroom teacher really, but I really did enjoy that as well, so I found something that I actually did enjoy, yeah which is great, and I think a lot of this is about finding those moments, or finding those things that you enjoy and that you're good at as well.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: When you think about the teaching aspect, what is it that you enjoyed the most, I guess?
• 9:48
  Speaker 2: being able to, I guess, increase the knowledge of kids when they have that aha moment where they're like oh, like that you teach them something that they didn't know.
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: That's a pretty cool feeling to be able to do that.
• 10:00
  Speaker 2: Us as parents if you're a parent, you know all about that.
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: When you have kids and you can teach them something, you're like parent, you know all about that.
• 10:08
  Speaker 2: When you have kids and you can teach them something, you're like this makes you feel good that you're teaching them the right things, and that's what you do as a teacher.
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: You basically have a classroom of you kind of your own children, even though they're not, but, yeah, in a way you think of them as that sometimes yeah, what I'd say as an individual if you're in that room and you, you're bonding with those children in the sense that they are like your own children and that probably is going to be a good way to making you a good teacher.
• 10:27
  Speaker 1: They were certainly lucky to have you, so I'm interested.
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Now, then, on the boxing side that starts to emerge.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: You know you started at 18.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: Is that early, is that late for someone to to get to where you're going?
• 10:39
  Speaker 2: yeah, it's very late.
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: Uh, there's not many boxes.
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: I think in the past I've started too late and been quite successful at it, but I think it's.
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: It was pretty crazy that I was able to pick up boxing so quickly, even though I feel like it's a sport that doesn't you don't need to be super good at it as a kid to then learn, learn it.
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: Um, I think it's a lot of natural ability in the sport as well, and having a good coach.
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: That's the key of it certainly early on the sport as well, and having a good coach, that's the key of it.
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: Certainly early on, how important was having a good coach for you.
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, you needed to learn on the fly, right?
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: I needed to be doing it and I was training to have boxing matches and kind of learning at the same time, and I used my amateur boxing career as a learning curve.
• 11:21
  Speaker 2: I needed the losses.
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: I tell kids in my talks that I go do.
• 11:27
  Speaker 2: I had 18 losses in my amateur boxing career and I needed every single one of those and they're the times that I learned the most in my boxing career is the times that I lost, not the times that I won.
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: You know it is difficult, I think, for everyone to recognize that losing is a great platform or opportunity to learn and, like you said, without losing I'm you know I talk about it a lot but recognizing what a loss is doesn't mean it's failed, doesn't mean you should be finishing so going through 18 losses.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: I'm assuming you had more wins than losses as an amateur, but get me from yes, yes, I think, I think.
• 12:02
  Speaker 2: By calculation, I think it's 48 wins and 18 losses.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, it was a good amateur career for you.
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: I'm interested was there a specific moment when you realized hold on, I'm good at this and there is a future?
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Look, I guess straight away I knew I was reasonably good at it because I did pretty well and I went just straight into the state titles for my second and third boxing matches and ended up winning the state titles.
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: So my fourth match I was at the Nationals.
• 12:37
  Speaker 2: So it was a baptism of fire, that's for sure, yeah, yes, that's meteoric.
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: I don't think they even allow that anymore, though you're not allowed to have that little of matches before you can go to a national level, because it's dangerous like you could potentially get hurt.
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: But I was lucky enough that those rules, I guess, didn't exist at that time and I was able to to shock the guys, but I didn't my first match at nationals, though I did lose, but I lost against the eventual champion, so okay, okay, so it's good, it's a noble defeat yeah, it would have been a noble defeat, losing against any of the state champions yes, yeah, very true.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: So, getting that fact, whilst in such a short time that would have been relatively, at what point did you then really start dreaming about Olympics, about national, about, you know, really pursuing?
• 13:35
  Speaker 2: I was in that goal from the start.
• 13:37
  Speaker 2: That's what I got inspired from my coach to basically do, that he said in the next four years I'm going to get you to the london olympic games.
• 13:48
  Speaker 2: So he had that vision basically straight away, thinking you're good enough, I'll get you there.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: And I was like okay, I believe you let's do it.
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, what did he have to say or do to help you believe that, coming in off the street, that's pretty powerful?
• 14:04
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, it's just the words.
• 14:07
  Speaker 2: I guess words are powerful, right, and if someone says to you I believe in you, I think that you can be a really good person at this particular thing, you're like if you believe in me, why shouldn't I believe in that as well?
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: Like it's just having trust, right, and I had trust in his knowledge in the sport and I was like okay, let's do this.
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: That trust.
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: He gained it from you quickly.
• 14:30
  Speaker 1: He gained your trust quickly.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: So what did you have to change?
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: Because you're at university this time, You're on the path to being a teacher.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: What had to change in your routine and your focus to make that Olympic dream happen?
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: being a teacher.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: What had to change in your routine and your focus to make that olympic dream happen?
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: Look, I guess it was.
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: It was hard, uh, university and doing the sport at the same time, which was tricky, but I was able to do it.
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Uh, thankfully, university can be flexible at times and make you do less classes through the year.
• 15:00
  Speaker 2: So I was doing doing less classes during some terms or semesters to make sure I could basically go away on trips and things and not impact my study.
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: And what was it like then?
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: Making the Olympic?
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, it was incredible, like it was a dream come true, being able to walk in the opening ceremony with hundreds of other Australian athletes, australian athletes that I'd watched on TV as a kid.
• 15:25
  Speaker 2: They were like superheroes to me, so it was mind-blowing walking side by side with my heroes.
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I bet it was.
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: And when you made the Olympics I'm trying to figure out the ages and timing here had you qualified to be a teacher?
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: Did you have a class at this time?
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, I did when I was at the Olympics.
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: Did you have a class at this time?
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: Uh, yes, I did.
• 15:43
  Speaker 2: When I was at the olympics I did have a class.
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: I think I was class when I've been teaching like a grade three, four or four, five composite class.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: I was teaching at the time yeah, so somewhere between 10, 10 to 12 years old, or something like that, yeah, so I have to ask the obvious question which I'm sure you get asked all the time did you have many discipline issues in your class?
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: There's always issues, that's for sure.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: No matter what teacher you are, you've always got issues with some kids, but look, they're all very good in comparison, I think, to a lot of other problems that there is out there, and they were young enough.
• 16:18
  Speaker 2: I feel like the young kids listen a lot better than the older kids.
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think that's true.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: Uh, they're certainly easier to uh to get get the control.
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: My uh youngest is is 10 years old and uh so I'm I can, I can picture that age, uh, and my wife's picture as well.
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: So, uh, I can imagine that classroom quite well yeah I'm interested then on.
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: You know we talk a lot about career transition and clarity, whilst I'm perhaps less focused on the Olympic success or Olympic experience and what you achieved, I'm interested in sort of that next shift, or at least I think that's the next shift for you, which is moving from amateur boxer to a professional boxer, from amateur boxer to a professional boxer, and what did that?
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: mean in terms of teaching and sort of time commitment.
• 17:09
  Speaker 2: Well, that's where it all changed when I turned professional into the professional boxing ranks.
• 17:12
  Speaker 2: Because in the professional boxing ranks I started getting paid, so it was getting paid for for matches and then sponsor.
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: I'd sponsors jump on board to cover my work.
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: Like work, right, I need to bring in some money to pay for either a house or rent or something.
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: And it was a house at that stage and they just enabled that to happen.
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: So it became more about I needed to earn money than from the sport somehow for you then, with a partner, with a house, what was the most difficult part of that, that leap, that, that change, you know, and I'm thinking there's the financial side.
• 17:45
  Speaker 1: There's then the performance side, isn't as an amateur, but it's in order to earn it's.
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: Did those friendship circles change, you know, from your life?
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: Would you look at that point?
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: What else had to shift?
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Look, my friendship circle was pretty good.
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: Like I had some really good friends, I still kept from high school and we all had the same kind of things that we're interested in.
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: Thing that I've been interested in and I still and I still am interested in it is playing board games for entertainment.
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: Not going out and drinking and things like that and partying, but just staying at home and playing a couple of board games with friends.
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: That is not that's a good night out for me.
• 18:22
  Speaker 2: It's not even out, it's a good night in A good night.
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: In what games do you like to play?
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Any really.
• 18:30
  Speaker 2: But I like a lot of the social deduction kind of games where you've got to kind of like in poker, where you've got to try and like suss people out and figure out if they're trying to manipulate you and win the game.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, okay, people out and figure out if they're trying to manipulate you and and win the game.
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, okay, fascinating, it's not.
• 18:45
  Speaker 1: It's not why, it's not really what I expected to to hear, but I guess that.
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: But that is so for you, there was a consistency in the social circle, moving from amateur, from a dual career athlete, which often is challenging in itself, career and teaching, so teaching and that for you, and then it moving into, well, the professional space.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: That social circle remained reasonably consistent.
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: It sounds like perhaps grounding you in some way in that regard.
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: And so for you then did it feel different getting into the ring as a professional than as an amateur?
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: Not really.
• 19:25
  Speaker 2: I guess I got really a lesson in my first professional boxing match that just how tough guys are.
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: I was a better boxer than the guy that I stepped into first in the boxing ring.
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: I whacked him so many times with so many good shots and he just stayed standing.
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: I was like holy moly, these guys are tough, like that was.
• 19:46
  Speaker 2: The difference is knowing how tough the pros can be.
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: Yeah, the skill alone isn't often enough.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: There's a little bit more.
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: That's needed exactly.
• 19:55
  Speaker 2: If someone wants it more than you, they can grind you down, that's for sure well, I guess you wanted it did.
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: To what extent did being a teacher, that teaching background, help you with training or performance?
• 20:08
  Speaker 2: I guess the knowledge in in like training wise, a little bit, not like overdoing yourself, but it's, it's tricky.
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: It didn't really kind of have too much overlap of um using my teaching kind of knowledge in the boxing world.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no funny, but we'll come back to it.
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: So then we've got this big transition shift from amateur dual athlete and teacher you put that to rest for a moment to start pursuing as a professional.
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: As you became a professional, the dream shifts from being olympic, an olympian, to what was the next dream?
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: the next dream was basically what glenn said from the very beginning.
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: So, as my mentor, he said I'll get to the olympics in four years time and make you a world champion four years time after that.
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: So that was the goal from kind of the beginning.
• 20:59
  Speaker 2: Right, he had the vision and I just have to believe in it and go along for the ride, right?
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: yes, yeah, myself in, yeah work hard to get there right, and so talk about that, that work hard, because that's that's a very, that's a bold vision, and I'm someone who believes in that vision and that clarity and that that gave you a lot of certainty.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: How was that broken down for you?
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: Like you, you say to strap in for the ride.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: How was that ride?
• 21:25
  Speaker 1: To what extent was it described to you?
• 21:27
  Speaker 1: Look?
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: I just had to do the work.
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: Basically it was a lot of work, a lot of training, a lot of discipline, eating right, sleeping.
• 21:37
  Speaker 2: Sleep was massive in sport.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Luckily I didn't have a full-time job where I had to work eight hours throughout the day and then go do boxing at night time for a while.
• 21:48
  Speaker 2: There before teaching I was doing child care work.
• 21:51
  Speaker 2: So early work in the morning, have a break throughout the middle of the day, then late afternoon shift and I could kind of rest in the middle of the day and then get ready to have a bigger night and training.
• 22:01
  Speaker 2: So so it just kind of worked out for me.
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it did.
• 22:05
  Speaker 1: But I mean you knuckled down, you followed the process, that hard work, that training, that really came through.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: And well, look, obviously the highlight.
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: Well, actually I said it was obviously the highlight.
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: A highlight is becoming world champion.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: How did it feel?
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Talk us through the night.
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Talk highlight is becoming world champion.
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: How did it feel?
• 22:23
  Speaker 1: Talk us through the night.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: Talk us through that.
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: One who you were eating, two, what it meant to you.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Look it was.
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: It was life-changing.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: From the first moment I heard that it was going to happen, like when I get a phone call from my promoter to say, uh many, packy, I was to fight you in brisbane, in my home state, and you're going to be guaranteed half a million dollars, it's just like holy crap, this is of course.
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: I'm going to say yes to that, like I was earning what?
• 22:49
  Speaker 2: 25 grand, maybe 20 grand a match before that, and then to to go up to that kind of money getting offered that type of thing.
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: It was like this is a dream come true.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I've hit the jackpot.
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: It's like scratching a lotto ticket and going I've won already.
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: Right, I'm already winner, but that's, that wasn't the vision and that wasn't the goal, because the goal was never about money and if it was about money then I probably wouldn't have won that.
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: That match so it was the goal of wanting to become a world boxing champion is what I needed to have.
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: I was was like I'm going to beat this guy, no matter what, I'm going to beat him.
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: And what changed in that run-up to that fight for you?
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: What changed in?
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: You just mentioned that it was life game changing.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, look, nothing changed.
• 23:37
  Speaker 2: I was always working hard to beat all of my opponents.
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: I treated all of them with that.
• 23:44
  Speaker 2: They were the best out there.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And nothing changed with that world title fight.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: It was just a long, long more rounds.
• 23:50
  Speaker 2: Right, it was a 12-round war that I had to prepare for, which I knew was going to be difficult, against a champion like Manny Pacquiao.
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: Absolutely.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: And look, it was a great fight.
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: Well, at least I guess from outside the ring One can say that might have been a different experience for you.
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: Certainly in there, but you know, definitely.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: You know I was putting words in your mouth by saying, by calling that perhaps that night that fight the highlights.
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: But I'll ask you what do you see as the highlight of your professional career?
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: Look, you're probably right, that's the epic event that I got to have.
• 24:30
  Speaker 2: I guess another highlight would have to be probably beating Anthony Mundine at the same stadium.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: Right, he was someone that I looked up to kind of as an athlete.
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: He was was a superstar.
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: He was very good at what he did.
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: Uh, maybe spoke a little bit too much and said some bad, wrong things sometimes, but he was another highlight to to go up and fight someone that I looked up to like as an athlete for so long yeah, that in itself is another shift right from being the, the aspiring champion, to being a champion.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: And whilst your ethic and focus and treatment of the athletes remain the same, I'm guessing from an external perspective the interest, the press, media intrusion how did any of that change in the way that you saw well, in the way that you're able to live your life?
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: yeah, that was crazy.
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: That's something that I didn't kind of um think about the impact of what the media can be, and I understand why some stars out there need security guards by them, by their sides, constantly just to to fend off either people or paparazzi or whatever.
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: Because, yeah, they're just superstars and I kind of felt like a superstar for a little while.
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: There's a little period of time there that I was like man, this is hard.
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: You're giving so much to yourself all the time and I would.
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: I would stand, take the photos, say hello, have the conversations with people, and it was just.
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: It became exhausting.
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: It was exhausting, even though I'll do it all again.
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: I'll do it all again if I had to and it was an amazing experience, but it can like, as I said, it's just a tiring experience if you are to give your time to everyone your time to everyone.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: Now thinking, thinking ahead, I'm you know.
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: I'd love to understand.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Was there a specific point where you started to think about what retire, what retirement from being a professional boxer would look like?
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: look, I never really thought about that.
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: I guess I always had teaching to go back to and then when, when bullyullyproof started it was not I don't know I didn't think of that as like a job.
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: I guess it was something I loved to do and it was a passion kind of project.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: And now that's what I get to do for a living right.
• 26:57
  Speaker 2: And now I'm a proud ambassador for B Bulletproof Australia where I get to go around and talk to school kids and share my story to them to hopefully inspire the next generation.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: So whilst you didn't really plan for Bulletproof to be that, you know your life after pro boxing well.
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: Actually, maybe put a different way.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: At what?
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: At what moment did you realize?
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: Hold on, it's going to be time to hang up the gloves here.
• 27:25
  Speaker 2: I knew that when I fell out of love for the sport, really I knew like training-wise I was super busy, so there was lots of things always happening and I would forget.
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: I would start forgetting things that I always had to do.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: So I was thinking, is it just me being useless, because I'm not the best at kind of remembering things anyway?
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: But I felt like is it because I'm getting punched in the head a lot?
• 27:52
  Speaker 2: So I kind of like had that kind of in the back of my head and I don't know it was just a multitude of things, the reasons of like I don't.
• 28:02
  Speaker 2: I I had a goal.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I had a goal to become a world boxing champion.
• 28:05
  Speaker 2: I became a world boxing champion, but I didn't have any goals after that.
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: So maybe I should have set a goal to become a unified world boxing champion or multiple weight division world boxing champion.
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: But I'd achieve what I wanted to in the sport and um, I the the love was basically disappearing pretty quickly.
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yes.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: So how did you make the decision to retire?
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: How did I make the decision?
• 28:30
  Speaker 2: Look, I knew I had a little, I guess, when the bully proof stuff kind of started picking up and I had a lot of like work to do there with the talks and things that I do, I was like I think I've got to stop because if I do continue and I do go too long, which some boxers do, and they became brain damaged or they talk and slur and all that type of stuff, I won't be able to do my job, what I want to do, and that's helped kids inspire them to be the best that they can be at something.
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: And then I mean you've got those physical risks.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: You know that you talk about there.
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: But there's also what I'm hearing is this you started to get this sense of well, what's next for you is inspiring others to be their best, and you could see a way to do that and perhaps leading your experience in schools, your experience as a school teacher how to engage children, actually engage an audience I'm guessing that must have had an influence in that path that you've taken.
• 29:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely.
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: Look, I knew at some point in time, like you started going boxing's not going to be forever.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: I can't forever do this and you need to have something that you're going to go back to whether that was teaching or whether that was helping with what I'm doing now and that's helping promote people to treat each other better is another thing.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: Yes, I like that you say to treat each other better, which is less about bullying and actually more about respecting others.
• 30:01
  Speaker 2: Exactly that's the program.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: There's some core values to our program.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: They're respect, courage, integrity and resilience.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: So to have those kind of aspects in your life and to have those about you that you can be bully-proof.
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, those actually sound as you say, those they resonate with boxing.
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: I guess some of the key tenets of someone who goes into a ring about that respect and that courage, do you think you know what aspects of those did you think you saw throughout your career?
• 30:36
  Speaker 2: uh, from courage, from respect, you know those yeah, look, I had respect for all my opponents and their abilities and and what they could do always wouldn't bad mouth or say nasty things normally in press conferences and things like because I just couldn't do it.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Courage is being able to walk out there and put your body on the line.
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: Basically that's what you're doing putting and put your body on the line.
• 30:56
  Speaker 2: Basically that's what you're doing.
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: You're putting your body on the line all the time.
• 30:58
  Speaker 2: It takes courage to do that in front of an audience as well.
• 31:01
  Speaker 2: Integrity is the being honest part, which that's kind of being honest with yourself and that's doing the training that needs to be done.
• 31:09
  Speaker 2: That's also trying to be honest with sponsors and be honest with people who are watching to show them that there's, I guess, another way.
• 31:17
  Speaker 2: You know another way to do the sport.
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: And then resilience is just getting put through the tough times right.
• 31:24
  Speaker 2: There's always tough times, no matter what you do in life, and resilience is just bouncing back from those things.
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: That's right, that's it.
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: And look, you bounce back 18 times as an amateur boxer to get to where you well, to get to a world champion, to become an Olympian, to do those things you had to go through those aspects.
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: So when you think, then, of the bully, proof, that aspect, I guess what inspired you to create that, so to sort of step into that space look it was, it was a needed thing.
• 32:03
  Speaker 2: Right, there was kids taking their lives from, from bullying that was happening around the place.
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: So, um, something needed to change in schools to to be able to save kids from doing this, and we needed programs, needed programs to upskill everyone in conflict resolution to be able to manage, I guess, saving lives.
• 32:27
  Speaker 1: And what inspired you to feel you had a role to play in that.
• 32:30
  Speaker 2: Because I went through it.
• 32:31
  Speaker 2: I went through it.
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: I had those dark days where I felt kind of suicidal when I was younger and I don't want that to happen to anyone else or my children.
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I went through it.
• 32:40
  Speaker 2: I had those dark days where I felt kind of suicidal when I was younger and I don't want that to happen to anyone else or my children and I couldn't think of anything worse for a parent to go through that with their children.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: So I just felt like something needed to happen.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you did it and you have done that, and which, again, I think is great, and I think there's going to be those listening, watching who get this sense of both.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: So one probably and this is really the idea of this Career Clarity podcast is one to get to inspire people to sort of follow a cause like yourself and support it, but another is for them to get this sense that you know something that they care deeply about.
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: They can perhaps go and be a part of that solution.
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: They, they too, can have that courage to uh, to go and stand up and do something.
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: I mean for that's what we, that's what we're trying to create.
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: We're trying to create, uh, people that aren't just bystanders, that will watch bad things kind of happen to people.
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: We want upstanders, people that will actually do something.
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: When they see something wrong happening, they'll go, have the confidence in themselves to go.
• 33:40
  Speaker 2: Hey, I don't, I don't think that's the right thing to do.
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: Can you stop?
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: how does it feel when you I guess when you get stories where people have you know, told you how it's inspired them to act or mobilize them to?
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: act.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: It's amazing.
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: It's an amazing feeling.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: Uh gives you you goosebumps really to think that you're changing lives out there and potentially, well, I know we're saving lives as well.
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: Right, you're saving those.
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: I know there's been kids that have been suicidal out there that have done our program and gone.
• 34:09
  Speaker 2: Man, this has changed me, thank you.
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: It's given me so much confidence.
• 34:14
  Speaker 1: What's the first thing If someone says they want to be an upstander, they want to go and and and make a difference for their?
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: That you know and the cause, that's something they believe in, and this is not just for athletes.
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: But but what's the first thing they should do?
• 34:27
  Speaker 2: know your stuff, I guess be confident, like and do the work in something so that you can confidently say, uh, that you know something.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: If you you hear or see something that you don't think is right and you've either studied it or figured it out or learned it in some way or another, you can be confident to go hey, you can call it out or say that's not right.
• 34:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, so in some respects, don't be ignorant about this.
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: If there's something that you believe in, then you don't have to have lived it.
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: If there's something that you believe in, then you don't have to have lived it.
• 34:57
  Speaker 1: If it's something that you believe in, learn, go seek knowledge, understand what the issues are, perhaps what some of the challenges are, so that you can be a spokesperson.
• 35:07
  Speaker 1: I understand.
• 35:08
  Speaker 2: Some of the best coaches out there are not players, are not former players, so you don't need to be the best at something to know more about it than the people that are the best at it yeah, absolutely, absolutely right.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: you always, I always say you know the sprinter coaches were not necessarily faster at the 100 meters than the 100 meter champions, but they might know what it takes.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: And it's about like you opened up with, it's about someone having perhaps a greater belief in you than you have in yourself, 100%.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: So when you one more bit about that transition period, so when you think about retirement, when you retired and sort of moving into the ambassador role, what's been the hardest thing?
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: What have you struggled with most from leaving the professional career behind you?
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: I guess being a sports person is way different to doing just normal work.
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: Right, it's a change, and that's probably a big thing that athletes have to get used to is the change in their life of going to work.
• 36:13
  Speaker 2: It's in a different way, right, their sport was their work and now they've got to transition into actual work yeah, yes, very true.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: Well, how do you keep, or to what extent do you keep, a connection to sport nowadays?
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: look, I, I still get bit involved in in the boxing.
• 36:30
  Speaker 2: Uh, they will occasionally call me up and ask me to go do some commentating.
• 36:35
  Speaker 2: Um, I go watch events.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: My brother's still doing it.
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: So I've still got some involvement in the sport, that's for sure yeah, well, look, with this, you know, last last few questions, really.
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: but, um, when you think about perhaps athletes in particular who are you know, I guess you've had an interesting career, the path that you've taken when you think about athletes who may be inspired by you from an athletic perspective, what advice would you give to them about setting themselves up for life after sport?
• 37:06
  Speaker 2: Well, just to make sure that they don't put all their eggs in one basket.
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: Sometimes you've got to have majority of the eggs in that basket.
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: But know that injuries in life just happen sometimes and if you put everything into that it can be a depressing.
• 37:23
  Speaker 2: I guess it can be a hard hole to dig yourself out of if you've got yourself into that.
• 37:28
  Speaker 2: So just make sure that you've got a backup plan, that's it.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: And look, I often call that making sure you've got another plan A.
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: So, in the same way that you love teaching and really had that connection, in the same way that you also had another plan of being a boxer, and both of those were, you know, energized.
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: You helped you move forward, got you up in the morning, and I think that is fantastic and that's great.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: And so look from Bullyproof what's next for you and supporting individuals to well to respect one another.
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, I just keep doing what I'm doing and try and get this program in as many schools as possible so that it saves just one kid at a time or multiple kids at a time.
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: So that's the plan.
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: That's great.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: And look, Jeff, we'll put your contact details in the show notes.
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: But those watching and listening, where's the best place to find you and get in touch?
• 38:22
  Speaker 2: well, they can message me on my Facebook page, instagram page, or they can email me at jeff, at blueprint for shite or dot au.
• 38:30
  Speaker 2: So there's a few places that they can contact me that's great look, jeff.
• 38:35
  Speaker 1: I want to say thanks so much for just sharing your journey, bringing a bit of your perspective to the audience today.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: No worries, thanks, ryan.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Jeff.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the Second Wind podcast.
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: We hope you enjoyed hearing insights from today's athlete on transitioning out of competitive careers.
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: If you're looking for career clarity for your next step, make sure you check out secondwindio for more information or to book a consultation with me.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: I'd like to thank Claire from Betty Brook Design, Nancy from Savvy Podcast Solutions and Cerise from Copying Content by Lola for their help in putting this podcast together.
• 39:10
  Speaker 1: That's all from me.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Take it easy Until next time.