Latest / All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting / 83. Owning your job search mindset with Jenna Mulherin (Part 1)

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83. Owning your job search mindset with Jenna Mulherin (Part 1) · All Figured Out with Andrea Barr: Figuring Out Work, Life and Parenting

• 0:00
  Hello everybody, welcome back to the All Figured Out Podcast.
• 0:03
  My name is Andrea Barr. Welcome to the show.
• 0:06
  Thank you for joining me again this week.
• 0:08
  It is great to have you here. And if you clicked on this
• 0:11
  episode, I have a feeling you either a just love the show and
• 0:15
  want to hear me talk, or you are in the market for a new job.
• 0:20
  Or you're super. Prepared and you just want to be
• 0:22
  ready in case the dreamiest of dream jobs comes your way and
• 0:26
  you want to own the interview. So today's episode is like I
• 0:31
  said, all about upping your interview game.
• 0:34
  Now I originally recorded this conversation with Jenna
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  Mulheron, who fun fact has since made a very exciting career
• 0:41
  pivot of her own. And while she is no longer
• 0:44
  running her business owned the interview, her years of
• 0:48
  expertise and experience in HR and recruitment, plus the
• 0:51
  strategies she shares in this episode are just so relevant
• 0:54
  that we are going to air anyways.
• 0:56
  So in this episode, you were going to hear us talk about how
• 0:59
  do you can confidently prepare for an interview without
• 1:02
  sounding over rehearsed, which I know is a really big, you know,
• 1:05
  it's a fine balance there. The biggest mistakes that
• 1:08
  candidates make and how to avoid them, why your mindset matters
• 1:12
  just as much as your resume and how you can really like, you
• 1:15
  know, fine tune your mindset going into an interview and how
• 1:19
  you can own your next interview even when you feel under
• 1:21
  qualified. Jenna's advice is super
• 1:24
  straightforward, actionable and just lovely.
• 1:27
  She's a lovely human being and I think you're going to really
• 1:30
  enjoy hearing tips from the inside of someone who's been in
• 1:33
  a jar for over 15 years. She is wonderful and it's a must
• 1:37
  listen for anybody who's in the job market.
• 1:39
  So, without further ado, Jenna Mulheron.
• 1:43
  You're listening to the All Figured Out podcast.
• 1:46
  I'm your host, Andrea Barr. I'm a career coach for parents,
• 1:51
  mom of two, and a self-proclaimed expert at
• 1:54
  winging it. After 10 years in the corporate
• 1:56
  world, two major career pivots, and navigating life with kids,
• 2:00
  I've learned one thing. No parent.
• 2:02
  Has it all figured out? And that's OK.
• 2:05
  Here we're all about growing personally and professionally
• 2:08
  while keeping family time sacred.
• 2:11
  You'll get practical tips, career strategies, and musings
• 2:14
  on life, plus guest experts to help us fill in the gaps.
• 2:17
  So grab a coffee. Or hide in your car for some the
• 2:20
  time. We're about to figure out this
• 2:22
  work life and parenting. Stuff out together.
• 2:28
  Channel hair, mohair hair damage.
• 2:33
  It came out that was like milk. Not it's not Mulberry.
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  We're new friends, thanks for coming and meeting me IRL to
• 2:45
  chat about interview things. Your career story, I appreciate
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  you being. Here.
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  Oh my gosh, I'm so. Excited I'm sitting at the only
• 2:52
  interview in the flash. Love that you're sitting across
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  like this is totally my 5 two. I've been looking at those I'm
• 3:01
  chairs the Piper song chair. I don't know that.
• 3:04
  I think it's made for people with ADHD, of which I don't not
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  have ADHD. So it's so you can like sit
• 3:10
  cross legged, like you can like sit in all these crazy
• 3:13
  positions. I feel it could be really.
• 3:15
  Nice, yes, I want to look that up.
• 3:18
  OK. We have so much to cover today,
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  interviews being the crux of our conversation, which I'm so
• 3:23
  excited to get into. However, you also, and I ask
• 3:25
  this to everybody, you also have very fascinating career story
• 3:28
  yourself. You've made a couple pivots much
• 3:31
  like myself. You've done like a couple
• 3:33
  different corporate stints in different ways.
• 3:37
  You had two children along the way, and you are now your own
• 3:41
  business owner and have done that since having children.
• 3:44
  So we're going to try to rein this in.
• 3:47
  This could be our entire conversation.
• 3:48
  Maybe there's going to have to be a part, too.
• 3:50
  But let's start from beginning. I know you were in retail.
• 3:53
  You worked for Lululemon and you did that.
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  What was that like? I think so many of us have
• 3:57
  aspired to, like, do the little lemon thing.
• 3:59
  Yeah. Tell us about that early career.
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  OK, so when I decided to apply for a job at Lululemon, it was
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  to be like a this will be fun. I'm just gonna go work on the
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  sales floor. I had just come off working for
• 4:13
  the Olympics for two years. And so I was, you know, that
• 4:16
  ends. And that's kind of an
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  interesting scenario because it's a contract.
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  You know what's limited, you know what's ending.
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  And then that was my first, like, real job in the corporate
• 4:27
  world. And then, yeah, so then that
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  ended and I was thinking, what am I going to do next?
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  I'm just going to go work on the retail floor, Lululemon.
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  So I joined Lululemon and at first it was very strange
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  because they were still at a time of encouraging people to go
• 4:43
  to Landmark and like all these different things.
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  And it was also language that I had hadn't heard before or like,
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  like grown up talking about maybe, maybe subconsciously my
• 4:55
  parents were gearing us towards like personal responsibility and
• 4:58
  choice and all of those things. But it was like the language
• 5:01
  that was spoken and like sharing feedback with people and things
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  like that. So that was a very big workplace
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  culture shock, I would say at first.
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  But the best thing is that people, I learned so much in
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  leadership. I always say I got my MBA in
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  leadership because when you're working in a retail environment,
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  you are dealing with people coming in there.
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  All the issues come up because there's many people.
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  It's not like you just have two direct reports.
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  You have 20 or 30 or 40 director.
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  So you hear all the things. So you start to learn like, OK,
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  how am I going to deal with the person that keeps showing up
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  later? Just like the simple things or
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  the person that insulted this guest or insulted this other
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  team member and had immediate conversations and how to stay
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  unbiased in those situations. Like all the things.
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  So I learned so much about myself, but also about
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  leadership. Parenting.
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  Oh yes. What a foreshadow.
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  Like as you're saying that, I'm like, I'm thinking about your
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  two daughters and I'm like, that's incredible.
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  Like, yeah, no responsibility. Like all of that work.
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  Yeah. Wow, wow.
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  Yes. And I think it's it's hard to
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  teach like personal responsibility and and choice,
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  like a choice is everything. You have choice and everything
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  that you do. Say more about choice.
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  What do you mean when you say choice?
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  Yeah, in this context, what do you mean?
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  Yeah, like when? Well, when I think about career,
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  like I feel stuck. I don't have any choice.
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  I have to keep working here. I have to keep paying the bills.
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  I have to keep saying yes to my boss because because if I don't,
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  AB and C will happen. It's like you actually have the
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  choice in everything that you do.
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  And so you could say no, you could quit your job.
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  What does that mean? It might mean that you can't pay
• 6:49
  your bills for a month. It might mean that you actually
• 6:52
  have to save a little bit more. It might mean that you have to
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  take on a second job. Like it's not going to be
• 6:58
  perfect when you say yes or no to things.
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  You have to there's, there's other maybe sacrifices or
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  compromises or things that you have to make in order to get
• 7:10
  closer to the thing that you might want.
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  But yeah, when I think when people say like, oh, I can't do
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  that or I have to do it this way, I'm like, well, you're
• 7:18
  choosing that. It's to not to stay the same is
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  also a choice. Yes, exactly.
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  Because of we have to talk about privilege.
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  Because there is an element of, there is of course an element of
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  privilege. In 100%.
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  So we're talking from that baseline of like where we are in
• 7:34
  North America, where we are in life, Like, yeah, yeah, I know
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  we don't have to call that out, but.
• 7:38
  No, I think it is important. Yeah, Yeah, there's baseline.
• 7:41
  Yeah, Yeah, I like that. OK.
• 7:44
  Lulu Lemon, I know you got into leadership.
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  So then the the retail career took you into a regional
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  position. So you're kind of doing more,
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  you're skewing more to the business side.
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  You're starting to lead the leaders.
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  Yes. And at what point does a person
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  in the height and the heyday of Lululemon yes, make the choice?
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  To leave, OK, this is the best. I always say to people, I think
• 8:09
  that everyone when they're working on an organization is
• 8:12
  like, I am here at the best moment in time.
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  Like because of the people that you're with and like the
• 8:19
  circumstances that are happening, maybe who's leading
• 8:21
  the business at that time, like maybe certain rules haven't been
• 8:24
  put into place or whatever they are.
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  Yeah, I feel like everyone has that like moment where they feel
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  like that. But yes, so I, I made my way
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  through Lulu Lemon, went over to the corporate side, business
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  side, was always like really interested in learning and
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  development, training people and the people side of things.
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  And what I recognized and had some leaders in the area of the
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  business that I wanted to steer into, which was HR.
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  And at the time, the people who were leading that area were
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  like, we need people who have like true experience, not just
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  like leading people within the business, but have true
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  experience with an HR certification and all the
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  things, which has changed since. But at the time they were like,
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  if you want to work in HR here, you've got to have the
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  certifications, blah, blah, blah.
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  So I started kind of loosely perusing around like, where
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  could I, where could I go and gain this experience?
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  And so then I found somewhere that would take me, which is
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  also actually, I, I feel like I'm going off topic, right?
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  Now no, I love. It So what was interesting or
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  like cool at this time is I think a lot of people will say
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  to me like I don't have any experience in this, but I want
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  to do this job. Yes.
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  And so on paper, I didn't have the HR experience, but I had I
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  had I had like I was just talking about like I was leading
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  these people. I was having tough
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  conversations. I was sharing feedback with
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  people. I was developing them into
• 9:55
  different roles and positions that they wanted us having
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  difficult conversations. I was letting people go.
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  I was dealing with like all the things that you would in HR as
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  well. And so on paper, I didn't have
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  the certification, but I had all those experiences.
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  So there was another retailer in Vancouver who the person leading
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  at the time was looking for an HR person for retail.
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  And so I thought someone I knew was working there and I reached
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  out to them and said, what do you think about me for this
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  role? And they said, I don't know,
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  it's not going to pay as much, blah, blah, blah.
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  You should talk to the hiring manager.
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  So I got on the phone with them. They kind of reiterated the same
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  thing, like this isn't going to pay what you want.
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  You don't quite have like all of the experiences.
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  Why don't you come in and meet with us?
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  So I had my interviews with them and at the end of the interviews
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  they said, OK, we're going to, we're going to take A chance on
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  you. We're going to hire you because
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  you have all of those in store experiences, your training
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  experience, your leadership experiences.
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  You have to go and get your certification within the year.
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  So I took a chance and I, I reached out and knowing like,
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  yes, I don't have this and this and this on the job posting, but
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  this is what I want to do and got in front of the right
• 11:10
  people. I shared with them like this is
• 11:13
  what I do have and then they came back to me and compromised.
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  OK, we're going to take you on, but you have to do this in order
• 11:19
  to stay on with us. So within like 8 months or so, I
• 11:24
  wrote my test to get my CPHR and, and then and then I got it
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  because I had, according to CPHR, all the competencies that
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  you need for HR. I had all of those things over
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  all the course of my career up to that point.
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  So then with that combined with my test, combined with like all
• 11:44
  the other qualifications that you needed, I got my
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  certification. OK, I know a lot of people who
• 11:49
  have failed that test the first time.
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  Kids are also not like a test taker.
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  I never took it. But like that's well done.
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  Like that's what a testament to you.
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  What a testament to not discounting your like or what an
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  example of not discounting or taking yourself out of the
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  running before you allow them the chance to even see you.
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  Right. It's like so often, perhaps
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  especially as women were like, oh, I don't think they're going
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  to want me or like, I might might not be.
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  How do you know that you're not right?
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  And how do you know that they're not going to want you?
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  Totally like go have the conversation.
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  Let them LS. Yes, and allow yourself to like,
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  you know, play the right strings to like, get in the room, like
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  go chat with somebody who could vouch for you and your
• 12:31
  character. Yes.
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  To elect to have that, like, maybe on paper you wouldn't have
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  gotten through the TSA if that was the thing.
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  Yeah. But what a shame if they
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  wouldn't have, like, seen you because they could have some,
• 12:42
  like, classical HR person come in. 0 retail chops, 0
• 12:46
  understanding of the business. Like having worked in retail
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  myself, it is a different beast. Oh, totally.
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  It is a completely different beast than somebody who's doing
• 12:53
  like traditional HR anywhere. Yeah, tech, whatever.
• 12:57
  So I love that. I love that like you went for
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  it. I think it's oh, it's so that's
• 13:02
  so inspiring too, because that's a pivot.
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  That's a huge pivot. And did you take the pay cut?
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  I did OK. So they they actually came up
• 13:10
  when they offered me the role, they offered it to me.
• 13:15
  I ended up negotiating 10 grand more it the original salary was
• 13:21
  like, I want to say 60 grand less than what I was making
• 13:26
  like. Significantly less.
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  But I was also working in, at that point in time, I was
• 13:31
  working in the retail position that bonused quite a bit by
• 13:36
  retail sales as well. Even though I was supporting
• 13:39
  from the business side, I was still like integrated within the
• 13:43
  retail floor. So I got bonuses huge.
• 13:46
  So that's why there was such a discrepancy as well.
• 13:48
  So I knew that Lululemon pays their retail people and bonuses
• 13:52
  them well because they want you to expect the time they wanted
• 13:56
  you to see like I can make a career out of this.
• 13:58
  Yeah. So, yes, so when?
• 14:01
  So I negotiated 10 grand more, but they had offered me 30 grand
• 14:07
  more than they originally said the job was going to be posted
• 14:10
  for, OK. So I think they were more
• 14:11
  realistic after our conversation.
• 14:13
  So OK, if we want this person, we're going to have to pay a
• 14:15
  little bit more. This is the opportunity that
• 14:18
  they can provide. We're not going to hire.
• 14:20
  They originally, I think want to hire two people.
• 14:22
  They decided just to hire me. So then I opened up some salary
• 14:25
  as well for them to be able to offer me a little bit more or a
• 14:29
  lot more. And then I negotiated that 10
• 14:31
  grand more, which brought me to like a level that I'm like, OK,
• 14:35
  this is still not what I want, but the experience and the role
• 14:39
  is what I want. Yeah.
• 14:40
  So it's it's, I have taken a pay cut in most places that I've
• 14:45
  pivoted to. And I have always taken the pay
• 14:50
  cut knowing that I'm getting like, there's something else.
• 14:54
  It's not always about money. And maybe that's part privilege
• 14:57
  as well, like you were saying earlier.
• 14:58
  But I know what the baseline is to cover the cost to live.
• 15:03
  Yes. And then to go and gain that
• 15:06
  experience is worth something to me.
• 15:09
  And every time I've had a pulse in my salary within like the
• 15:14
  year and a half so it hasn't. I've just trusted that I'll get
• 15:19
  back to where I want to be. And yes, the pay cut was worth
• 15:22
  it at most times. Well, and you're taking that pay
• 15:25
  cut to have an investment in yourself and in this future
• 15:28
  career of which when you're passionate and really good at
• 15:30
  what you do and you're finding more alignment with the work
• 15:33
  that you want to be doing, yes, you will always be better at
• 15:35
  that job. You will always then become like
• 15:37
  even more of a star. And so then you are going to
• 15:40
  catapult yourself. And like so many people, I don't
• 15:42
  know how many people listening right now are like, yeah, I
• 15:44
  would take a 10 or 20K cut right now to be happy.
• 15:49
  Yeah. Like, how much would you pay to
• 15:51
  just be marginally like, just to be happier in your nine to five?
• 15:54
  Yes, I have been in that situation so many times.
• 15:57
  I'm like, this isn't worth it. Like I would give.
• 15:59
  Money right now yes to not. To not be in this totally it
• 16:03
  can. It's such a mental like thing
• 16:07
  that's so interesting. It's so interesting.
• 16:09
  And we used before you said like they took a chance on me.
• 16:12
  I think you're taking a chance, like you took a chance on them
• 16:14
  too, because you're like, I'm leaving something that's so good
• 16:18
  where I've built such a, I'm sure an incredible reputation.
• 16:21
  I've got pals like I've got. There might have been equity at
• 16:25
  stake. Like there was lots of things
• 16:27
  like in that. But good for you for like just
• 16:30
  being like, no, like I'm going to, I'm going to go for it.
• 16:32
  Yeah. Oh, my goodness.
• 16:33
  And then before we keep moving on, but I have to ask, like when
• 16:36
  you're making a move like that and you feel like they're, you
• 16:40
  do feel like they're taking a chance on you, which they are,
• 16:42
  they didn't know how like if you were going to get the
• 16:44
  designation, they didn't know what your HR chops would be
• 16:47
  like. Was there a level like, how did
• 16:49
  you feel around that? What's the word like the
• 16:55
  pressure? Was there a pressure element to
• 16:57
  it in wrapped up in that? No, So you know, OK, but I think
• 17:02
  in making the choice, I just, I knew, no, this is like strict, I
• 17:06
  was being strategic. Like this is a strategic move
• 17:09
  for myself. Maybe the pressure of like, OK,
• 17:12
  I have to accept that I'm getting paid less money than I
• 17:15
  want to, but I also am getting paid right now based on what
• 17:20
  they know about me and my value, truly what I'm bringing to the
• 17:24
  table. I think this is fair.
• 17:26
  So I wasn't like going into it like this is rubbish, like I'm
• 17:31
  not they, they don't see my value.
• 17:34
  I didn't feel like that. So that was strategic.
• 17:37
  OK. Then when I got there, what was
• 17:39
  so freeing was something that I didn't realize was happening at
• 17:43
  the previous job, which was that I almost felt stifled in what I
• 17:49
  could offer that organization and actually see that I could
• 17:56
  make change and really help progress the business, even
• 18:00
  though I'm sure I was and definitely in individual
• 18:03
  conversations, but the organization as a whole, when
• 18:06
  it's like such a beast, sometimes it's hard to see a
• 18:09
  beast being the organization, sometimes hard to see like how
• 18:12
  to shift the needle and like see where you can make change.
• 18:16
  So at this organization, it was smaller and right away I was
• 18:20
  like, holy small. I, I am bringing so much to the
• 18:23
  table. I am making changes.
• 18:26
  I am supporting these people. I could really, like, feel I was
• 18:30
  making a difference, and that felt amazing.
• 18:32
  So there wasn't any pressure. I'm not sure exactly what you
• 18:36
  were referring to, but when I was thinking about pressure, I
• 18:39
  was thinking, oh, like pressure to get my designation or prove
• 18:42
  myself maybe with them. Yeah.
• 18:44
  So that they knew, yes, she was the right hire.
• 18:46
  I've never felt like that because they were just so.
• 18:49
  Oh, my gosh, we're so happy you're here.
• 18:51
  This is great. Can you do this?
• 18:53
  Oh, my goodness. OK.
• 18:54
  You can do this like that. And like doing things that they
• 18:58
  didn't even know that they needed.
• 19:00
  Because of my experience, I could like see the the gaps or
• 19:04
  the low hanging fruit. As yet to say totally was
• 19:08
  amazing and just rebuilt my confidence up so much.
• 19:12
  That is so cool. I wonder, and I wonder if like
• 19:16
  making a pivot like this, like when I made my pivot, I had
• 19:19
  gained a couple of years in advertising, for instance, and
• 19:22
  like you would gained like years within little Lemon appeasement
• 19:25
  organization highly reputable. There's a level of confidence in
• 19:29
  like making that type of pivot. Like you've got to have like
• 19:32
  everybody has ego, like you've got to have a bit of like self
• 19:35
  assurance and like confidence in yourself outside of like the
• 19:38
  skills because anybody can learn anything.
• 19:40
  Yes, but you were like, it was it probably was helpful, but you
• 19:43
  were like, no, I know that I'm good at what I do once I learn
• 19:46
  the thing and figure out the machine.
• 19:48
  And so that confidence to be like, OK, we're going to like
• 19:51
  write an employee handbook, which maybe there wasn't at that
• 19:54
  time, which is always the first thing that they get people tend
• 19:56
  to. And you're like, yeah, I can do
• 19:58
  this. Like I had to train on the
• 20:00
  handbook like easy. And they're like, Oh my.
• 20:02
  And how nice to like be appreciated in that, in that
• 20:05
  regard as well. OK, so at that organization, I
• 20:10
  know that you had your first child.
• 20:13
  Is that correct? Second, OK, OK, let's talk about
• 20:16
  your motherhood journey, OK. And going into motherhood in the
• 20:20
  midst of a pilot, I guess. OK, so the first baby that I
• 20:23
  had, I was in a position, I was a retail trainer, so I traveled
• 20:28
  across Canada, which was awesome.
• 20:31
  And my pregnancy was quite good, like chill, like I didn't have
• 20:37
  any complications. I felt good, all the things.
• 20:40
  And I think a lot of people feel that way in their first
• 20:42
  pregnancy especially. So anyways, I had that like
• 20:45
  stereotypical like great first pregnancy, which was awesome.
• 20:48
  So I was traveling, I was working, whatever.
• 20:50
  I was not in a stressful environment at all.
• 20:52
  It was great. Went on my mat leave, soaked it
• 20:56
  up, was spending time with my little.
• 20:58
  Everything clicked there, which was awesome.
• 21:00
  And while I was on that leave, I had heard of this position open
• 21:04
  up that I was interested in, which was a regional manager
• 21:09
  position, which was looking and I had never done it before.
• 21:12
  And traditionally at Lululemon, what would happen at the time
• 21:16
  for training managers was you were in a regional manager
• 21:19
  position, then you would go into a training manager position.
• 21:22
  I think it was just from going needy, experiencing like multi
• 21:26
  unit management, a little bit more business acumen, that
• 21:31
  you've gained a little bit more exposure to certain people at
• 21:34
  the support office, all of those things.
• 21:36
  Before people then leaned into this training manager role.
• 21:39
  So anyways, I kind of did the reverse of that.
• 21:42
  So when I had heard that this regional manager role had opened
• 21:45
  up, I just thought this would be great to add to My Portfolio of
• 21:48
  different roles that I've had. I'm going to apply for it and
• 21:51
  see what happens. So I applied for it.
• 21:53
  I was off. I was probably at my nine month,
• 21:57
  yeah, I've been off for nine months at that point.
• 22:00
  I was going to take a year because in Canada at the time, I
• 22:02
  could take 12 months or had the opportunity to take 10 or 12
• 22:06
  months rather. And I ended up getting it.
• 22:10
  So I went back at, I ended up going back to work at either 10
• 22:14
  or 11 months. That's how old my daughter was
• 22:17
  at that time. And that was a great decision
• 22:21
  for my resume and from what I learned and exposure and all of
• 22:26
  those things. But what I quickly realized is I
• 22:29
  was also traveling a lot in that role, and that was too much.
• 22:35
  Like I missed my daughter's first steps.
• 22:37
  Like her true first steps, I missed not her first steps for
• 22:41
  me. Yeah, but I did miss them.
• 22:44
  So things like that, which I made the choice to be like in
• 22:51
  this role and to be away for multiple days or week at a time,
• 22:56
  but new by about 10 months that it wasn't going to work that
• 23:00
  long term for me. Yeah.
• 23:02
  So I 10 months into the role. Ten months into the role.
• 23:04
  So I started. Exploring, OK, what else could I
• 23:06
  do that I'm not like on the road all the time and found a
• 23:10
  different role in Lulu Lemon, but then also quickly realized
• 23:13
  that that wasn't the right position.
• 23:15
  And that's when I started exploring like the HR realm and
• 23:20
  pivoted OK other organization. I think it's really important to
• 23:24
  call a lot of these pieces out there.
• 23:25
  You just called out in that there's so much context around
• 23:30
  pivots like this. Like the fact that you were
• 23:32
  like, hey, man, I'll try out the travel thing.
• 23:33
  You're like, OK, great, check, try that.
• 23:35
  Didn't like being away for that long.
• 23:37
  Yes. And then the context of being
• 23:39
  like, OK, what would look good on my resume?
• 23:40
  Like so many things have to line up to find what that next step
• 23:45
  is. It's not just like, OK, next I'm
• 23:47
  going to do this. It's like, well, you have to
• 23:48
  take in the whole picture. Like, how much do you want to be
• 23:51
  working and traveling and what role do you want to be in?
• 23:54
  What's appropriate within the organization?
• 23:56
  Like maybe at that time, like you said, it wasn't appropriate
• 23:59
  for you to be going into HR. Yeah, with a little lemon
• 24:02
  because it was this whole thing around like the designations.
• 24:06
  So that's really, it's really important that you were like,
• 24:08
  OK, this is all of the context. Ergo I want to be an HR as hard
• 24:12
  as it is, I'm going to look externally.
• 24:14
  Yeah. So while well done, like so
• 24:17
  brave of you to like also be like, OK, that must have been
• 24:20
  very hard because a lot of people like when I worked at
• 24:23
  Aritzia, I know I don't, I don't mind saying this it.
• 24:28
  I know that there was a lot of people who wanted to just stay
• 24:31
  at Aritzia. And this isn't any organization.
• 24:34
  This is not unique to Russia, but there was people that I
• 24:36
  would encounter who were like, I'll do anything, just I want to
• 24:40
  stay here. And you know what, that was
• 24:42
  right for them because their their career was Aritzia versus
• 24:47
  for me and a lot of people I know a lot of people I coach,
• 24:49
  it's like, no, no, my career is my craft.
• 24:52
  Yes, It's not the organization. And so I think for you, you're
• 24:55
  realizing like, no, no, I have like a passion in this realm of
• 24:59
  like people development. My craft is now really becoming
• 25:04
  my career. It's no longer.
• 25:06
  Yeah. That's hard, but cool.
• 25:11
  Yeah. I think the other thing I want
• 25:13
  to highlight in that like those little pivots to like the bigger
• 25:18
  pivot into HR is that I did make some moves for my resume.
• 25:24
  And I also was like, I don't know, who knows if this is going
• 25:29
  to work out. And I think that can stop people
• 25:32
  to be like, well, what if I make this move and then it's not the
• 25:35
  right thing? Well, I am like proof of that,
• 25:38
  that I have made these moves and some of them weren't the right
• 25:41
  things necessarily. Like there's good things that I
• 25:43
  can take away and they weren't necessarily the right moves, but
• 25:46
  it brought me closer to where I need to be.
• 25:48
  And so even though that's like so cheesy, I think, and I always
• 25:52
  say this, it's like it's going to bring you one step closer to
• 25:54
  where you were going to. You need to be or want to be or
• 25:57
  are going to be more happy because I because I experienced.
• 26:00
  That yes, the number of times that I acquire relate career
• 26:05
  transitions to dating is like, unbelievable.
• 26:09
  Unlike sitting in A room, you know, which, like, I've had this
• 26:11
  conversation like probably twice with like, different clients
• 26:14
  where I'm like, OK, hear me out for a second.
• 26:16
  Let's talk about dating. And like, what are you up to?
• 26:18
  Rock? But it's so true.
• 26:20
  Like, are you going to not date, like the university or high
• 26:22
  school boyfriend because you're like, what if it doesn't work
• 26:24
  out? Yes.
• 26:25
  Oh, you never think like that. Yeah.
• 26:28
  I don't know. You're like, no, I want to like,
• 26:32
  try this. Like, chances are most of us
• 26:35
  know the high school boyfriend. Most of the high school
• 26:37
  boyfriends. Don't work out, sorry.
• 26:38
  Yeah, yeah, like, right. But but you're like, no, I'm
• 26:41
  just going to like give it, give it a try.
• 26:43
  But I always said, like every person I dated like got me one
• 26:45
  step closer to like Scotty. And it was like I realized what
• 26:48
  I liked your didn't like. Yeah, that was like, that was
• 26:50
  really cool. Or like, ooh.
• 26:51
  That's very true. Hard no.
• 26:53
  Yeah, he's like your parameters of which you wouldn't like I
• 26:56
  wouldn't know my career parameters which I was talking
• 26:58
  about with clients. It's like what are like your
• 27:00
  heart like non negotiables and things like that.
• 27:02
  You wouldn't know that unless I had different experiences.
• 27:04
  Yeah, because you don't know. You don't know.
• 27:06
  Yes. And all of those experiences to
• 27:08
  tie this to interviewing are what you get to talk about in
• 27:11
  your interviews too, so. Just stories.
• 27:14
  You're just like that person that like reams you out in front
• 27:17
  of like an entire like your people.
• 27:18
  You're like, oh, this is a good interview Story 1.
• 27:20
  Day I have built resilience. Add that to the list of things
• 27:24
  that I should talk. About yes, so a couple.
• 27:26
  So another babe, a couple more pivots, What else?
• 27:29
  What are some other? Notable pieces of your started
• 27:32
  that other role truly in HR I went on my second mat leave.
• 27:37
  So with that one, I was also, I had started my side business or
• 27:44
  my, my business at the time on the interview, which was really
• 27:49
  interesting because I don't even think that I was connecting.
• 27:53
  It was at the time of COVID, which so many people started
• 27:55
  businesses during this time. And I, so it was May of that
• 28:00
  year and I don't even think that I had put it together.
• 28:04
  Like all of these people are going to be laid off from jobs
• 28:07
  and have a hard time getting jobs or not working.
• 28:10
  Like I didn't even compute that I had started on the interview
• 28:13
  because I had made these pivots. People were reaching out like I,
• 28:18
  I'm thinking about doing something different, like asking
• 28:21
  me for a consultation or advice or whatever.
• 28:23
  And I realized over my course of probably my professional life,
• 28:27
  I'd always supported people with interviewing and so like
• 28:31
  casualty supporting people with interviews.
• 28:33
  So I'm like, I feel like this is a business that I could really
• 28:36
  help people with. And then that kind of like
• 28:38
  turned into something. So when I went on my mat leave
• 28:41
  with my second babe, I was really, I was in a different
• 28:45
  mindset. I wasn't like very like laze
• 28:49
  fair, like let's just go for walks all the time and like hang
• 28:52
  out. I was working on the business
• 28:54
  and she was beside me. So I was doing that and yeah, so
• 29:00
  that was a very different dynamic of mat we've.
• 29:05
  Yes, yeah. And so you were.
• 29:07
  And I feel like you were just going with like what you were
• 29:09
  craving in the moment too. And I wonder if like having a
• 29:12
  SEC, having the second having having another baby who was
• 29:16
  like, you know, a daycare with a nanny or who wherever, like she
• 29:19
  was at that point school, you were like I.
• 29:22
  Need a bit of an outlet? Yes.
• 29:24
  There was something that you were.
• 29:25
  Needing like a little bit of creativity.
• 29:27
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 29:28
  Our oldest. That's a good point.
• 29:29
  Our oldest, she was going to her daycare and the youngest,
• 29:33
  obviously, the newborn was with me.
• 29:35
  I was looking after her, yeah. I don't know if enough people
• 29:38
  talk about, like, different mindsets in those early
• 29:43
  postpartum days. Like we talked a lot about PD
• 29:46
  PBA, like yeah, which is so important and I had like all of
• 29:49
  it, but but there was like this level of creativity that I had
• 29:54
  in that first year with both of them that was like, I was like,
• 29:57
  can I bottle this up and like drink this later?
• 29:59
  Because this is unreal. My mind was just flourishes.
• 30:03
  So cool, right? How you like have that
• 30:05
  inspiration and just strike while the iron is.
• 30:08
  Hot. And I think probably a lot of it
• 30:11
  has to do with just maybe 1 less thing to have to like and that
• 30:17
  less thing of like the day-to-day looking after
• 30:20
  yourself to go to work to then be doing that job or whatever.
• 30:26
  If you're going to a traditional 9 to 5, whatever it is, maybe
• 30:31
  just freeing that up from the space of not thinking about that
• 30:34
  allows for more, which I think just is more proof of how
• 30:40
  everyone, including myself, needs to give themselves more
• 30:43
  time to just be free of thinking about anything else.
• 30:48
  Like, and meditation is not for everyone.
• 30:51
  It could be meditation, but it could literally just be going
• 30:54
  for a walk and listening to some music or whatever it is just to
• 30:59
  see what comes into your mind. It's so true.
• 31:03
  Oh, my goodness. OK, so then we've got to finish.
• 31:07
  We've got to finish the career story.
• 31:08
  Then we're getting into, yeah, we're going to interviews.
• 31:10
  But I'm like, still on the edge of my seat.
• 31:12
  I know your story, but I'm still like, what happens next?
• 31:16
  You leave? Said retailer.
• 31:18
  Yes, so I left that retailer and at that time I, my my boss who
• 31:24
  was working there, decided to leave, who was a mentor and
• 31:27
  someone that I really, because as we all know, this was like my
• 31:30
  true first HR role. And so it made sense in my brain
• 31:36
  that I wanted or I guess maybe there was a like a little bit of
• 31:39
  lack of confidence there too of like, OK, if she leaves and
• 31:43
  she's like my go to for like, and I need to really escalate
• 31:47
  things from the HR perspective, she's not going to be there.
• 31:51
  I don't know if it makes sense for me to stay here not having
• 31:56
  this person there as well. So then that made me think, is
• 31:59
  this the right time to start on the interview, which I then took
• 32:04
  the leap. I'm just going to go all in with
• 32:06
  on the interview, which I did for four months and then I got.
• 32:12
  Scared part of your story. Yeah.
• 32:14
  And thank you for opening up. That's OK.
• 32:16
  So 4. Months.
• 32:17
  So four months I did that. Yeah.
• 32:20
  I got scared because I was like, how am I going to make money off
• 32:23
  of this? And I just kept thinking in my
• 32:24
  brain, Drake and stand how they're like, if you're not
• 32:27
  making money, this is a hobby. Like that just kept me playing
• 32:30
  in my brain. And I wanted to see traction
• 32:33
  more quickly because I was getting so much positive
• 32:36
  reinforcement from people of like, this is such a good thing.
• 32:39
  And I felt like it was the right thing and it was good, but I
• 32:42
  wasn't monetarily seeing it like come to fruition in the way that
• 32:46
  I wanted to. So I got too scared and I
• 32:49
  reverted back to going into corporate, went back into
• 32:52
  corporate and then into consultancy for the next, maybe
• 32:56
  we'll call it like a year and a half or so.
• 32:59
  And then realized I need to work on my own vision and goals and
• 33:04
  go back to own the interview and really give it a true shot
• 33:08
  versus yeah, it's like assuming because it didn't work in the
• 33:12
  Fort, which yes, as we talk about it, it sounds so
• 33:15
  ridiculous. It was like it was four months.
• 33:16
  But at that time I just, I couldn't, no, I couldn't push
• 33:20
  through everyday thinking, wow, is this going to work or not?
• 33:24
  I love this. I love this.
• 33:26
  This is like, it's so real life because all we see are the
• 33:31
  Instagram accounts that are like, start a digital shop,
• 33:34
  start a digital product store and you're going to make like,
• 33:36
  see, I'm like making 20,000. Dollars a day.
• 33:39
  I went and it's like, and then we go into that and we're like,
• 33:44
  what the heck, Like this is like this isn't happening.
• 33:47
  I feel scarcity. I'm this isn't right in this
• 33:50
  moment. Like whatever, you know, talk
• 33:52
  about context and circumstances. You're like, hey, circumstances
• 33:55
  or my mindset around this just aren't quite working.
• 33:57
  I want to give corporate. More shot.
• 33:59
  Yeah. And then you're like, OK, now I
• 34:01
  want to go back and give only interview another shot.
• 34:04
  Yes. And just like, talk about
• 34:06
  choice, talk about like, yes, you're allowed to change your
• 34:09
  mind and you're allowed to do it without having to apologize.
• 34:11
  Yes, someone actually said to me, why do you keep doing this?
• 34:14
  Oh, get out of here. Get out of here.
• 34:19
  Few reasons but the main 1 is like I am just following my gut
• 34:26
  and my intuition and like what I need in that moment.
• 34:29
  I don't know like. They're probably like Sally, who
• 34:32
  works at a bank. They work for the BDC.
• 34:35
  They've got a very crunchy pension.
• 34:37
  I know exactly who this person is that's saying this, you know,
• 34:39
  and you don't have to confirm or deny, but I, I know you, Sally.
• 34:43
  Like, you know, Sally, but I think they they came from it.
• 34:46
  Yeah, from a place of curiosity. But I definitely was like, oh,
• 34:50
  you're you're giving me proof that people are questioning like
• 34:54
  why she keep doing this. But it is, you know, this comes
• 34:58
  back to choice. I can choose to like be like
• 35:00
  that is proof and make it mean something and then not and then
• 35:06
  what, pivot again and go back to doing something else or feel
• 35:10
  like I have I'm stuck in this. Like I am not stuck in anything.
• 35:13
  I like, love this. I want to be doing this.
• 35:15
  And I'm so happy and I'm so happy that we're here.
• 35:18
  I'm so happy we're here. OK, we are going to do 2 parts
• 35:22
  of this because I, I want to treat this as its own episode
• 35:28
  and let's get into interviewing. That way people can like toggle
• 35:32
  back between the two and if they just need their interview hit
• 35:34
  before then we'll do that. So, OK, if we wrap up this
• 35:37
  segment of the interview, yes, Jana today as we reflect on
• 35:43
  where you've come from in your in your career and own the
• 35:47
  interview and everything like so cool, so incredible.
• 35:50
  What are you still trying to figure out today?
• 35:53
  Thing that Oh yes wait, what do I want?
• 35:57
  To what do you feel like today in this moment?
• 36:00
  Yeah, thing. OK, so something that has been
• 36:03
  on my mind as of late that I just posted about to was about
• 36:08
  forgiving yourself faster. So I am incredibly hard on
• 36:12
  myself and I see it kind of like trickle into my like children as
• 36:16
  well. Like I can see how I don't let
• 36:20
  go of things and like put so much pressure on myself that I
• 36:23
  can see my oldest doing that. And so that is like a huge wake
• 36:27
  up call for me of like, holy smokes, because I don't feel
• 36:30
  like I'm around her doing that. But clearly I am because I've
• 36:33
  seen it her display the same kind of patterns as me.
• 36:37
  So I will hold on to things like if I do something that I'm like
• 36:42
  embarrassed about or ashamed about or mad at myself, they
• 36:46
  didn't show up in this in ABC why or didn't do the thing that
• 36:52
  I said that I was going to do on time or whatever it is.
• 36:55
  I will hold on to it and just go into this like I, I will make it
• 37:00
  mean that like I'm not good enough.
• 37:02
  I should be doing this like all of the things.
• 37:04
  So I had heard this quote a year ago and it was forgive yourself
• 37:08
  faster. It's like forgive and we don't
• 37:11
  need to forget about it, but like move on more quickly.
• 37:15
  And that is something that I am in constant practice that if I
• 37:19
  like find myself in this spiral, I'm like, no, stop.
• 37:23
  Like it's done. We don't need to keep going like
• 37:26
  we, as in me, don't need. To keep and you don't have to
• 37:29
  say like you don't have to have that situation where you didn't
• 37:32
  do the thing on time based on your own timeline and say and
• 37:35
  then make it mean something about you.
• 37:37
  Like I am somebody who you never finishes things on time or
• 37:41
  whatever. Is that part of it?
• 37:42
  It's like there's like this forgiveness of like, no, I'm not
• 37:45
  going to make it be my identity. Yes.
• 37:47
  There's just something that. Happened like, so I'm really
• 37:51
  quick example. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 37:52
  I had been saying part of part of going out with on the
• 37:56
  interview, like full on was I'm going to work from 10:00 AM to
• 38:00
  3:00 PM. That is my, I mean like of
• 38:02
  course work also spills over on other days and whatever, but
• 38:07
  generally speaking, I'm going to work 2:50.
• 38:10
  And this week I was like in a rabbit pool and was working till
• 38:17
  6:00 or 6:30 and I had picked up my daughter from school.
• 38:22
  She was on the iPad that whole time, and after I was like, what
• 38:27
  have I done? I totally went against something
• 38:29
  I said I wasn't going to do. This is one of the big reasons
• 38:32
  why I want to own my own business, is to be more like
• 38:35
  with the girls, all these things.
• 38:36
  Yeah. So I was like, Nope, You know
• 38:38
  what, this was one day and I like went over to Miller at at
• 38:43
  night time. I was like Mills, like I didn't
• 38:47
  my intention wasn't to not spend 3 1/2 extra hours on work.
• 38:53
  And I really want to be in the practice of like stopping work
• 38:56
  at 3. And so like I had a she didn't
• 38:58
  care. She was like.
• 38:59
  Whatever, I got angry. But I was like, no, I want to
• 39:03
  say it out loud because I want her to know.
• 39:05
  Like, I don't want you to be on the iPad for 3 1/2 hours.
• 39:08
  Yeah, 3 1/2 hours this she was on it.
• 39:11
  I've had straight forward while I was doing this.
• 39:13
  So anyways, it's just about. And is there a reframe in there?
• 39:17
  And I'm saying this because I literally just saw TikTok.
• 39:20
  Yes, I love Tiktok. Whatever have the person who did
• 39:24
  that. She did this thing where she was
• 39:26
  basically like, you know, I'm 30 years old.
• 39:28
  I live at home with my parents. Like no, no, no, no, no.
• 39:31
  And she was going on about like just her, her life contacts.
• 39:34
  And then she said, but watch this, I'm 30 years old.
• 39:37
  I get to spend this beautiful quality time with my parents,
• 39:40
  right? And it was a total like change.
• 39:42
  I wonder like in that were you also for yourself able to say
• 39:45
  like, wow, I had a I was really excited about my work.
• 39:48
  I got to spend three extra hours and I got to tell Miller, but
• 39:51
  like, hey, that's not really my intention.
• 39:53
  I don't plan to do that all the time, but it just happened.
• 39:56
  So that what were you able to reconcile that fee?
• 40:00
  Yeah, sometimes, yeah. But I think that is such a good
• 40:05
  reframe and like mindset to have around.
• 40:09
  Yeah, yeah. It's not always, not always easy
• 40:11
  though. Yeah, OK, we're going to close
• 40:12
  out this interview here and we're going to sneaky, sneaky.
• 40:16
  Just keep recording because we're going to do Part 2.
• 40:19
  So thank you for joining for Part 1.
• 40:21
  Thank you for sharing your career story.
• 40:22
  I absolutely love it. It's so inspiring.
• 40:25
  And check out everybody who is listening or watching.
• 40:28
  Check out Part 2 where we are going to go into brass tactics,
• 40:32
  interview prep, career stuff, transactional, get the freaking
• 40:37
  job that you want. And yes.
• 40:40
  Have it. Thank you so much for listening
• 40:44
  and since you made it this far, please share this episode with a
• 40:47
  fellow parent who you love, respect, and want to support.
• 40:51
  And while you're at it, hit me up on Instagram at All Figured
• 40:54
  Out. Andrea, I would love to meet you
• 40:56
  and hear what you are trying to figure out these days.