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From Therapeutic Roots To Thriving Lesson Program, Jessica Shares The Playbook · Equestrian Tea Time

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone.
• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to another episode of Equestrian Tea Time.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Isabel Solas.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: My co-host Emma Jenkinson couldn't be with us today.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: She's in New Mexico enjoying the uh last warm days of uh October 2025 before we get into winter here.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: For this episode, I spoke with Jessica Cardillo.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: She runs a business foundation equestrian in Homestead Township, Ohio.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: She has over 40 years of experience, and she actually got her start as an instructor doing therapeutic uh riding.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um these days, she's been running her own program for about 20 years now.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: She offers the Horse Sense Learning Levels curriculum in her program, which includes mounted and unmalted and relationship-driven skill development.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and she is the kind of instructor that everybody else in the industry is really relying upon that provides people a place, this is their entry point into the horse industry where they go to learn the basic beginning things of how to catch a horse, put a halter on it, attack it up, make sure the girls are tight enough, all those really basic things that um we need that people need when they first decide that they want to try to get involved with horses.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um she pulls this off with the help of a uh dedicated staff of barn rats, teenagers that she has developed over time, and assistant instructors that help get everything done back in the barn, teach people how to halt, their attack, unattack, all of the basics of how to not hang the bridle upside down by the bit, run up the stirrups correctly, um, and all those things that uh people who are new to sport and new to horses need to uh learn.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's becoming increasingly hard to uh manufacture that group of people back in the barn um to help out to make the uh lesson program smooth.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I was very eager to hear how she accomplished that.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So she was really wonderful to talk to.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I hope you enjoy our conversation.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for listening.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_01: When I pulled up your Facebook page, you had a show uh quote from Charles DeComfi right on the top.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh one day old.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I loved Charles DeComfi.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: I went to many of his clinics.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_01: I had him at a farm, uh, we had him out to the farm I worked at, I worked at a farm in New Jersey for almost uh 20 years.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And the last time I saw him, I did a two-day instructor seminar.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think, was it in Maryland or Virginia?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I forget where it was.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was a two or three hour drive.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: And uh mostly what he was mostly teaching about was his idea that the for writing instructor, it's mostly about charisma.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: He was like, you have to have charisma, you have to have, and that was the main thing that he hammered home for for the whole weekend.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, well, I'm screwed because I don't have charisma.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I've seen people who like they haven't ridden in 20 or 30 years, but they are the best up-down beginner lesson instructors in the world.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Great with people, great with beginners, great with kids.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: They have a great, great talking style, they coach folks great.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what, since most of instructing is a lot of beginner folks who come in, do it for a limited period of time, and then they leave because they're smarter than the rest of us who stay here and stay in.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that's what a lot of what instructor is is beginners, beginner level folks over and over again.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And everybody wants to teach upper level level people, but really you have to manufacture those.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've got to have these six-year-old kids who last until they're 16 and then maybe 26 and you build them up, you know.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Grand free riders don't internally walk in your door and say, please teach me.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, no, that isn't the way it works.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: So thanks for agreeing to uh come on.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: My co-host is Emma Jenkinson, she lives in New Mexico.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: She and I were having a terribly hard time getting everybody together uh at the same time.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then uh I was trying to squeeze it in.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a barn manager, I live in in New Hampshire, so I was trying to do it on my lunch hour on days when I was working, and then we had a situation where I forgot to respond to a podcast because I was so distracted with you know stuff in in the barn.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we're like, okay, we're gonna split this up.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um, now she records and I record, and like I sent her an invite link, but she's at work, so so she's busy.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: So what she'll do is she'll listen to this.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: If she has anything to add, we may tack on something on the front, or if for some reason we want to talk again, maybe she'll message you and you guys can have a chat and then we'll put it all together.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks again for agreeing to join me.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: I have so much fun doing these things.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: I usually learn learn learn the fun stuff, and uh connecting people together is also also fun.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: So you're in Ohio.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: I actually started out, I did a year at Lake Erie College in Ohio in that would have been like 1989.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, only a year, and then I transferred to uh another school.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so what part of you in Ohio?
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Are you close to Lake Erie at all?
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, not far.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm on the far west side of Cleveland.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: So okay, cool.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: Lake Erie College is like an hour away.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not too far.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll start with the first question that I had sent you here is how long have you been teaching riding lessons and what inspired you to start uh sharing your vast knowledge with uh all of these bright, enthusiastic young people who come marching through your door?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_00: Mostly enthusiastic, yes.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um I actually started teaching back in 1999.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: I have been teaching for 25, 26.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, I try not to think that the math, it doesn't do me any good.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: I try not to think about these things too much.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, awesome for you though.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: I originally started with therapeutic writing.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I got certified through NARA because it was NARA.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, gotcha.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I did that actually.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: I taught therapeutic writing for the first 10 years of my career.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_00: I actually think helped me become a better instructor with typical riders because you really have to break everything down into small steps.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: You have to go slowly and you have to present it in different ways depending on the student.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so getting to do that with typical riders, it just made it easier to make the transition.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: So were you working with uh a program?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: You worked, or did you run your own thing, or you were working for somebody else's program?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was working for somebody else's program, two different ones, five years at one, five years at the other one, and then oh wow, yeah.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Did did you do this part-time or full-time?
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_01: Part-time.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yes, part-time, because I know that they're always looking for instructors.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: It seems like path certified instructors are like everybody wants them, but it's hard to get people to commit to something that's part-time.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um, did they have an indoor arena where you were at?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: Were you always working?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, they did.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So you were able to go throughout the uh the year.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: All right, cool.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: And they were both heated too, which was nice.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I don't know what that is.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Was this in Ohio?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yep, North Ohio.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: All right, did you start riding as a young person or did you come into horses as an adult?
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: I started riding, uh, I was probably five.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, my wow, my aunt had horses, and she lived in New York in the mountains, and so I would go every summer and we would just trail ride.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, cool.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So then you know, it got to the point where I was old enough to take lessons, and so started riding, and I just never stopped.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you weren't scared, you thought it was great, you thought I loved it, and awesome.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: The older I got, then she would call me in the springtime because she didn't have anywhere to ride in the winter, so she never during the winter.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: So she would call me in the spring and be like, When are you coming out here?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're the gonna be the first one on my horse.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not getting on him after a winter.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, so just blatantly saying, put the young person on the horse.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, how old would you have been at that point?
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Were you a nearly turnager?
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_01: I hope at this point or no 10, 12.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, we used to say that I had glue on my seat.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So oh wow, okay.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's cool.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: So when you first started taking lessons, uh, what seat or what style was it in?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: Western.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you're western.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what kind of western here?
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Just the pleasure western or equitation patterns or uh just pleasure western.
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_00: We did a lot of trail riding.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when I got older, I dabbled in uh barrel racing and team penny.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, cool.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Barrel race barrel racing is a serious sport.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I only I follow some folks on online, but yeah, that's um uh a lot of money and a lot of horses going uh going back and forth.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: They really are, really is a racehorse in an industry.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: All right, cool.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know if this is going to be from your aunt or from when you take were started taking lessons.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what was a really valuable lesson you learned about riding or horsemanship during that time, either when you were really young or when you started taking the formal, the real lessons?
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think honestly, the biggest lesson I learned was that um not to do it the way that my riding instructor as a kid, um we showed up, we rode, and we went home.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I did not even learn how to groom and tack until I was an assistant, like I was one of the helpers as a teenager.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow, okay.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that I have it's that's not how we do it at my place.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So yes, yes.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: So we learned that it's important to teach the kids why we do things the way we do, and that no, it is not gonna be you know, full service.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: You're gonna have to do the work if you want the privilege of riding.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, all right.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's cool because you know that's something I thought about.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I remember that from when I was young too.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I came up in 4-H, so they definitely made us tack up horses, but having been to enough different barns and barns on enough different levels of the food chain, you know, it was very difficult when I was trying to teach public riding lessons, teaching people tacking up and stuff.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's confusing.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: The saddle pad on each different horse might be slightly different, the bridles are different.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_01: So people would get very confused.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they come once a week, maybe not even that often.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: And in the interim, they totally don't remember how any of this equipment go goes on.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I'd be really curious.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: How do you teach people to like tack up and halter and groom?
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Is that a whole do you have a whole series?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: I remember on your website you have a levels program that you use, right?
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what are two levels?
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh if we think about tacking up and grooming and stuff, is that one whole module at the beginning?
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_00: So um, we do one lesson of grooming and tacking, but I have teenage volunteers, so uh okay.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: I have I run my lessons back to back to back, and then my volunteers will help everybody.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: They try to be as hands-off as possible, but it obviously at the beginning they're a little more hands-on.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, they kind of try to help everybody figure it out and learn it.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So they're still doing it every week.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: That is really cool.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, that's so that's the kind of thing people have a harder time.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you might be in a different part of the country.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: I've always been on the east coast, and that was really common when I was a kid, the 1980s and such.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: But at this point in time, that is way less common for people to, at least where I am, for people to have a barn full of barn rats, the teenagers who help the little kids and stuff, people have a very hard time getting that going.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, in this how do you get these teenagers to agree to come and volunteer and and and help?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's your feeder system like to make make this magic happen?
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some of them are just real excited about doing it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: There are very few of them.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there are more of them that are motive motivated by like they would like to lease a horse or they would like to join the show team.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so if you like to do those things, it is mandatory that you volunteer at least one shift a week.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, there you go.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: If they want a show, then they have to volunteer and help with tech up.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Very nice, yes.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: I have found that the parents don't make their kids work very hard these days, so I do it.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: I have walked into farms and seen parents doing like the kid is supposed to be part leasing a horse and they're supposed to work off the part lease.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_01: The kid is sitting there doing nothing, and the parent was doing the work to work off the part lease on the kid.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, we're screwed.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, I mean, I was like, oh my god.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that that is that is really you're probably too busy to hang out online.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm single and I other work for other people.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know anymore.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I have plenty of time to hang out on on Facebook and stuff, and getting that kind of thing going is one of people's the hardest thing that they have to do.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Getting assistance, getting the barn helpers, getting the teenagers that used to be 30 and 40 years ago so much more common, getting those people to show up to help to make the whole the whole thing work.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: You'll you'll have to put out an online course for instructors for how to manufacturer.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm serious.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: If you put out a course, how to manufacture barn mice and barn and barn rats, you would probably get people to show up for your I'm not above bribery.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like I take I take all of my summer camp volunteers.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: We do like a trail ride, thank you picnic at the end of the year, they're at the end of the summer, and because we don't have trails on the property, so oh okay, load up the trailers and go somewhere, so it's a big deal.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I bet it it is.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, kids and horses too, any kind of event.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: That is that is a big deal.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you have a big trailer?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have like a four or six horse?
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have a three-horse, but I have a with a three-horse, and okay.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll go.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: She'll haul horses for me, too.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh wow, cool.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And you two guys and a bunch of kids in a park.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, awesome.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so where do you get one of the things we had been discussing with writing instructors was uh school horses and lesson horses, acquiring them, keeping them sound, keeping them happy.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you get your lesson horses from?
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: I have mostly found them on Facebook.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_00: I have been really lucky to find and I I'm not picky, I I teach um beginner English riding lessons.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I am not like looking for English horses if it's a western horse who has done full age or you know, western pleasure, even if I have an ex sparrow racer, so I have an ex-rodeo horse actually.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't matter as long as they're quiet and uh forgiving and patient, and yes, those are my qualifications.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, no, the walk jog lope of the western horse is just uh people who are English only and have not done any.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: I have done some time in the Western world reigning horses.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: I worked at an Appaloosa farm that was mostly largely pleasure horses.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, some of the English sport horse people need to embrace the incredible value of the Western trained walk jog lopehorse.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah for so many of their people who are just gonna come and possibly never really go to a show or something, but need that reliable, capable horse that's gonna do that teeny little 3B can.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, teeny little one, little one.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And my my uh big sell here is that I um what I kind of introduce everybody to different we do local schooling dressage shows, um, and I introduce you to jumping, but if you want to get serious about anything, I don't have those horses.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_00: You're going to have to buy your own or you're gonna have to find another barn because yes, that's that's not my specialty.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it you're very smart to do that because that's a really hard line, you know.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: If people want to people as no, as a facility owner or owning a lesson business, you cannot provide horses for people to jump any higher than 12 inches, 18 inches.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot even provide even two six horses, you know, for people to go out and jump for the horses to say sound and for the horses to put up with people catching the horse in the mouth and landing on their back and galloping the horse into the base and then pulling on their face and finding horses that are gonna put up with the stuff, especially as they uh go up.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where a lot of people really get into difficulty.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, your kid can compete at three foot.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have$45,000 to buy a horse that they're gonna be able to compete at three foot?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: And people are like, that's crazy.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't have an$8,500 horse that is gonna pack your kid around, you know.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that's a very uh very tough spot for folks when they want to make that transition and they don't seem down to understand costs a lot of money to do that stuff to seriously compete at barrel raising, to get beyond training level dressage, to jump anything above two feet.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that then you're talking about money and time, uh, which gets on to uh maintenance.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: How do you keep all your lesson horses physically happy?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I uh I turn out, man.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: Nice.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um in the summer we turn out at night, so they're out 12 hours, 12, 14 hours a night.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um then in the winter we have to I I kind of split it so the lesson horses go out in the morning so I can have them in in the evening, and then I put my border horses out in the evening, so they kind of split time during the day, which is not ideal, but um, but yeah, they love they love being turned out.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: I bet they do.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_01: So do you have uh one really big field they can all go out in, or you got split up mares and gallons?
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't have it split.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: We do have three, it's 18 acres split into three pastures, but we rotate nice, nice, but they all go together and they figure it out.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: That is so cool.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: How old are these guys?
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: Are these mostly older, close to 20?
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or my youngest lesson horse is 12-ish, and my oldest is 29.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so they're all mostly in their teens.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: A couple in their 20s.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: What kind of breeds are we talking about?
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Mostly quarter horses or what you got?
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a lot of quarter horses.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: You worked with the therapeutic riding.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_01: What's your opinion on all of the now long list of certification programs that we have going in the United States?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think that what we need to do is um it needs to be more important than it is currently.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about all areas, but in my area, a teenager can be like, hey, I have a horse and I'll charge you$20 an hour and people will go take lessons from her.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I feel like there should be some sort of baseline certification.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is one of the big ones, hunter jumper, vending and dressage all have different levels of certification that they're trying.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: But when you talk about the backyard, a lot of parents like that.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like they don't want their kid to go to a big barn and see that other people have fancy ponies and go get in and go to shows.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: They are perfectly happy.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, well, this 16-year-old survived riding her pony.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure she can teach my uh 10 and 10-year-old.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not just on the uh 16-year-olds who are teaching.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: There are definitely people who they want that.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like they want something little in backyard that's not going to cost too much and it's not too far away.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, the reason that they get they can teach lessons is there are people who are just totally comfortable with that.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, who don't want more.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, they definitely don't want their kid being tantalized by the prospects of things that are more expensive.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: When you start out, you're these beginners who come in and you teach them some groundwork, teach them to attack up and groom.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: What do they start with with riding?
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Do you start them on a lunge line in a round pen?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get beginner riders going?
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we do the first, we do the first lesson at the walk on the lunge line, the first lesson trot on the lunge line, and you know, the canner on the lunge line.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_00: But we do a lot of at the very beginning, I do a lot of ring figures.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we're steering and transitions uh and emergency procedures and ring etiquette and all those nice and they start in privates.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: So once they've got once they can control the horse at the trot safely, I'll put them into a group lesson.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: I have an indoor and an outdoor, uh, and we try to be outside as long as we possibly can.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I love having an indoor, but it's dusty, and I have to water it 17 times a week.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: So yes, no, the dusty indoors where I'm at now.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we redid the footing when I came here and we got the waterless footing, which I gotta tell you is really nice.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's really nice when you've got$40,000 kicking around free that you need to spend.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Get get some of that that waterless stuff.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's really nice.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, this is the first time I've had the waterless footing, and yes, I don't think I will ever go back to having uh no, having to water the footing is just one of those things that takes so much time, and then in the winter, invariably trying to water it, but have it not freeze.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: That's the whole thing.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: The hose is in the dripping, and then we're gonna add the magnesium chloride to the footing, and just oh my goodness.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have borders at your facility in addition to lessons or just lessons?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I have um two human boarders with a total of three horses.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, all right, cool.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: So that's not that is the not a lot to do big.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I am a lesson barn, not a boarding barn.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's yes, the money is not in boarding.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_01: The money is not no, no, it's boarding has been undervalued for so long, and people are just coming to terms with it.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know how that's gonna pan out for the longest time.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: I had dreamed of uh having facility that was more like you have a membership at the barn and you get so many rides per week.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Ownership.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_01: We have a lady who who I was riding with today who is just catch riding all over town.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: She takes one lesson a week at one place, but then she knows enough people, there's enough people around her, like, please, somebody come ride my horse.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: That she doesn't have to pay.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just horses are so expensive and they go lame.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many different therapeutic modalities you could bankrupt yourself with the PEMF and the boots and the salt water therapy and the joint injections and the other injections and the supplements.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Supplements are insane.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like we could blow 300 bucks a month easy on supplements.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: The more we learn, the more complicated it gets.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was better when we knew less.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we know now, the more we know now, um, the more tricky.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna try to give advice to one of these young enthusiastic people who's gonna go to a horse college to get a horse degree because they want to be a riding and an instructor.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: What can you tell them?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you need to uh shadow the professionals.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: Oh I think education is great.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think you need a four-year degree to be a instructor, you need to shadow a lot of different people so that you can figure out what works best for you.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, build your own teaching style.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the other good bit of advice I have is at the beginning, you want to make everybody happy so that you have clients.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Don't do it, don't do it, don't say it no when you want to say no.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I promise.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, no, you're absolutely correct.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: And um, getting back to all my very valuable time spent on Facebook discussion boards.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, that is one of the things people come back to more and more is people make so many compromises at the beginning and they try to make everybody happy, and you will just exhaust yourself, bankrupt your yourself.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta learn to say no.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: No is not a bad word.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh if you burn yourself out, you're no good to anybody.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, you can't do any anything.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, saying no and having boundaries.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, do you have are your clients on a uh people are trying to switch over to having clients either subscribe or prepay for a term or automatic withdrawals and stuff?
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: Are do you still have people giving you paper checks every week for a lesson, or do you have some kind of online sign up?
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, to tell me about that.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: I use the stripe processing system, so everybody has a credit card on file that automatically gets charged on the first of the month.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So never chasing people for money.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's easy, and there is a a fee, but I feel like it's worth it to not have oh, for sure, to have people not pay you for sure.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it looks like the makeups are going away because makeups have been abused.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: People are like at the end of the term, they'll do one makeup and it'll be unmounted or something.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_01: Are you are you offering makeups, or if the people don't show up, then they're that the that that's it?
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's how I do.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I do one at the end of the month.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's an unmounted makeup.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, cool.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: That you're on that's what everybody else is doing.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when you look at the other lesson programs, if you miss soccer practice, they don't hold a makeup for the people who didn't show up to practice.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um, horse people are you know the only silly fools who have been like letting people reschedule five times and letting people take a three-week break because they're going on vacation and making all these compromises and just like being way too flexible for their own good.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then they're exhausted and poor, and people wonder why people who own horse farms are raging lunatics.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, they're exhausted, they have no no money, their clients have haven't paid.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: That that's cool.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, you're doing everything that I hear that the other folks are doing.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so hard.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: People have a I don't know if it's a mortar complex or this desire to be nice.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they feel like if you know, if I make people pay at the beginning of month, or if I'm not flexible and I don't work around when Janet has a recital and it conflicts with her lesson, um, people run a yeah, they have a very hard time holding themselves to telling folks no.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: I know that at the beginning for me, I wanted everybody, I wanted to like provide this opportunity to as many people as I could.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I was, you know, making those concessions, yes, allow them to still come ride.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it just got to the point where I was like, but all those other people who are making the coming every week are fair to them.
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_00: And so, you know, everybody wants to do it, everybody wants to do it.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to decide if you're gonna commit or not.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, the other thing that I do is I require one month's notice if you would like to stop taking lessons.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, gotcha.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_00: Because I have already budgeted for the month.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want me to budget differently for next month, I can do that.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you are hard hardcore.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I like it.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like it.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're fierce.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's so so cool.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: I well, I have to say that I do have the luxury of having a husband who works a full-time job.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: So gotcha.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: I am working only for my horses.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, all righty, cool.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so do you have time to do any?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Are you are you still riding yourself?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: Can you pursue your your own riding goals or are you uh switched over strictly to teaching?
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: My so my hard horse died in 2020, and I immediately got another horse and wasn't ready for her.
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh uh.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, did her just a terrible disservice letting her sit around because I never rode her.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, alrighty.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_00: But so eventually I sold her, and um, so she's making somebody else happy now.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: And just two weeks ago, I bought myself a horse.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you did?
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, well, what what kind?
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, you've had a servant.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, is this a three-year-old just off of the track recently?
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: He's five.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: He came off the track in May.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, all right, cool.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: So he's he raised he raced for for for a little bit.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have a thoroughbred resale project I got from uh benchmark sport horses.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yep, yep, yes.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: She sells a lot now.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: She is someone who's really good at what she does.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I've taken some online uh equine uh marketing education, and she is so good.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: All the pictures are so fantastic.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: She does and that she just keeps cranking them through, like she said, looking at her website when you're shopping.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I have looked at her horses, yes.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, where did your five-year-old uh come from then?
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: He came from Kentucky.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, cool.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's a few the thoroughbreds there.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: All right, all right.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: All right, cool.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, good luck with him.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: That's it.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to hold you up for uh too long.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_01: Is there anything else that you want to talk about or you want to tell us about your business or anything before I let you go?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: We survived the technology hurdles, so yay for us here.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um the other
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: Saying that just as I said that it froze.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, of course.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are we back?
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: We just can't.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: We're back.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: I was just congratulating us for surviving the technology hurdle and it froze.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, that's watch my mouth.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: Alrighty.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was just going to say um lesson planning.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: The thing that helped me the most was coming up with a theme for every month because you can nice build a lesson plan a week from that theme.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: So it was obstacle October.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: So we've done an obstacle course every month.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_00: And nice.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: This week's obstacle course is um Halloween themed.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: So you can change it up.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, so you know, then we have jumps in June.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: And even if you're not jumping, we'll set up a course of ground poles.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, so a theme a month makes it super easy.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_01: That is a fantastic idea.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh uh, let you go.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for meeting with me and persevering through the technology for trauma.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh thanking me.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: All right, have a good day.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.