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Beetlejuice Beetlejuice · Citizen Frame

• 0:00
  Music.
• 0:25
  Cases like this make me wonder why I've been became a cop.
• 0:32
  You're not a cop. You're an actor. Thank you, Janet.
• 0:37
  You keep me real. Should we take this Beetlejuice into protective custody? See if you can find him.
• 0:39
  Music.
• 0:52
  Beetlejuice.
• 0:57
  First of all i want you two kids to know this is a
• 0:59
  safe space okay feel free to express yourself don't
• 1:03
  be afraid i sense there's an enabler here but we'll get to that look dig deep
• 1:07
  and spill your guts okay who wants to go first all right everyone welcome back
• 1:11
  we're here to end our mini retrospective of beetlejuice with beetlejuice beetlejuice
• 1:19
  that second one has done very well for them?
• 1:22
  Oh, it made half a billion dollars, I think. Yeah.
• 1:26
  And it's his number three highest grossing film of all time.
• 1:30
  Right. To Burton. Right. To Batman.
• 1:34
  And what was that big fucking movie he did? Alice in Wonderland?
• 1:37
  Yeah, one of those. Yeah.
• 1:39
  But this is like number three, so I can't... They kind of have to,
• 1:43
  right? You got to end it with the third Beetlejuice.
• 1:45
  Yeah, it's kind of... You know, and if that does well, they'll probably do a
• 1:49
  fourth, or we'll even get... I mean, I hope they don't sell out and they give
• 1:52
  us a, you know, some sort of Disney Plus TV series or something,
• 1:57
  because then it will be toned down.
• 1:58
  Did you know there was also a Beetlejuice cartoon back in the 80s?
• 2:02
  Everyone knows that. Yeah. Yeah. It was stupid.
• 2:06
  I can't really remember. I know of it, but I can't really remember actually
• 2:09
  sitting down and watching it. I don't even know if we got it here in the UK. I could be wrong.
• 2:13
  No, it was out for a while. Who did the voice of Beetlejuice in it?
• 2:18
  What? Was it Keaton that did the voice of him? No, no, God no Right,
• 2:23
  yeah Some other idiot Right Some idiot Who
• 2:26
  probably does all the Transformers voices Right I
• 2:29
  do know there was a Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure Spinoff TV series I've
• 2:34
  seen clips of it on YouTube And whoa With two different actors instead of Keanu
• 2:38
  Reeves And Alex Winter And whoa And no George Carlin either Yeah From what I've
• 2:44
  seen of it Ropey stuff to say the least,
• 2:47
  Yeah, no, I never especially if Keaton wasn't back. Yeah.
• 2:54
  Yeah, so...
• 2:57
  Why don't you start here? I mean, 36 years later.
• 3:02
  You know, they were always talking about tackling Beetlejuice for a long time.
• 3:10
  And, you know, I was thinking, 36, can you really do a sequel?
• 3:15
  30 fucking six years later? Now, I'm not talking franchises that have been going
• 3:20
  through the years. Yeah, like James Bond.
• 3:23
  Yeah. Yeah, I'm talking a film that literally had a one-off back in 1988,
• 3:28
  and you revisit it back in 2024.
• 3:33
  It's like, I don't know if it's just going to work.
• 3:36
  I think there was talk of it for many years, like you said, but it was sort
• 3:40
  of one of those ones where it was sort of stuck in development hell,
• 3:44
  and it came to constant sort of dead ends, but eventually we've now got it.
• 3:49
  Well, I think they knew when to put it out. They were smart.
• 3:53
  Jenny Ortega is quite popular. Thanks to Wednesday. He's real popular right now. The TV show. Yes.
• 3:59
  That Adam's family resurgence kind of feel on this app. And Beetlejuice does
• 4:03
  have that Munsters Adam's family vibe to it a little bit.
• 4:07
  So, it made sense to get it out. Michael Keaton's on another resurge.
• 4:13
  Winona Ryder with Stranger Things, of course. Yeah, Winona Ryder.
• 4:17
  And then, well, let's dive into the cast.
• 4:21
  I would say as well that there is a big, and there has been for quite a few
• 4:24
  years now, to say the least, quite a big sort of resurgence of 80s nostalgia.
• 4:29
  And I grew up in the 80s, and I have 80s nostalgia, but it's being overdone,
• 4:34
  pure overkill with the 80s nostalgia, Especially with shows like Stranger Things
• 4:38
  Which I'm not a fan of And you know,
• 4:40
  had that Wonder Woman 1984 And loads of other stuff It just feels very cynical
• 4:46
  And inauthentic to me It's just like, you know,
• 4:49
  studio suits Sitting around a table saying Yeah, you know,
• 4:53
  there's a big market For 80s nostalgia You know, all these people that are now
• 4:57
  in their 30s and 40s and 50s That's not true Fuck off, Stranger Things was created
• 5:04
  by two gentlemen who wrote it and got it out themselves.
• 5:08
  That was not a big studio. But it was commissioned by Netflix?
• 5:12
  You got to stop hiding behind, oh, it's all produced.
• 5:16
  Stranger Things was, no, that was independently written and they got it produced.
• 5:21
  That is not, that is a fan service show, but it's not no nostalgic rip-off piece of shit.
• 5:28
  Well, I'm talking more about films with the likes of this Wonder Woman 84.
• 5:33
  And it's just like there's way too well i even bring it
• 5:36
  back franchises yeah bring it back franchises you
• 5:39
  know like from the 70s and 80s like star wars and
• 5:42
  stuff it's just you just know that these suits are
• 5:45
  sitting around saying we're gonna milk this nostalgia to
• 5:49
  death you know stranger things whatever you know each to
• 5:52
  their own if people like it but i have seen it all so far
• 5:55
  every single episode and the 80s nostalgia
• 5:58
  overkill and really sort of
• 6:01
  jars it interferes with the storytelling actually so
• 6:04
  it does and i hate the fucking kids in it all right
• 6:08
  you're clueless you're a clueless twat we all know that all
• 6:11
  of our listeners said that i'm getting abused the clueless twat is
• 6:14
  the clueless twat gonna be on today i'm sorry i'm getting abused because i don't
• 6:17
  like a tv series right yeah well because you're for the wrong reasons no no
• 6:22
  i i have other reasons trust me i have a long list of reasons but that's one
• 6:26
  of them oh here we go i don't want to hear it but you know why because it's
• 6:28
  not a stranger things podcast there's no there's no naked old people and tree fucking in it.
• 6:33
  You fucking, no, I don't want this shit. This is not elevated for me. I don't want this.
• 6:39
  We've already had this discussion about elevated horror. Yeah.
• 6:42
  But I see through Stranger Things. I see through Stranger Things. Listen to you.
• 6:49
  It is 80s nostalgia for people who weren't even born in the 80s.
• 6:54
  You know, it's ridiculous.
• 6:56
  But anyway, that's just... There's nothing wrong. There's nothing wrong with doing that.
• 7:00
  But they milk it to death. And every decade always comes back. I know that. Always.
• 7:05
  But that's the cynical. In the 90s, it was the 70s. you always have a resurgence
• 7:10
  of a decade but this is inauthentic,
• 7:13
  and fuck you're analyzing process for films it's just fucking ludicrous I don't
• 7:24
  get it I don't want to say it's overkill but you know who does nostalgia,
• 7:32
  greatly does it right Ty West.
• 7:36
  Okay let's move on i don't know how you got this right i don't have time for you right now,
• 7:41
  let's talk just build just build just yeah i
• 7:44
  was saying get him over here kick your ass although surprisingly
• 7:47
  despite everything i've just said i'm well we'll get to it but i might have
• 7:54
  an opinion that you might not expect on it let's just say after everything i
• 7:58
  just said there yeah so in other words you liked it yeah that's the only way
• 8:02
  that's the only direction you're going to go. Exactly.
• 8:04
  Because if you say it's a piece of shit, then you're just sticking what you
• 8:07
  just said. I might just say that just to piss you off, but I'm not going to
• 8:09
  say that. I'm going to be honest, as I always am.
• 8:11
  Yeah, you're just a pathological liar. No.
• 8:14
  That's your problem. I'm too honest. That's it. That is it. Yeah.
• 8:18
  Right. Beelgeuse, Beelgeuse, Beelgeuse.
• 8:21
  Bring the candy man back instead. Say his name three times.
• 8:26
  Let's get to it. Let's get back. Let's get back to Go for it, Beelgeuse here.
• 8:30
  Fucking hell. You always ruin the podcast stupid comments.
• 8:36
  Oh, I can't wait for Squid Game 2. Yeah. When's that coming out?
• 8:41
  January? I enjoyed it. The first series. And I must admit. Oh, I can't wait.
• 8:46
  Yeah, although not original, of course, but I enjoyed it. Oh, here we go.
• 8:50
  No, I enjoyed it. Oh, fuck me. Here we go. I liked it for what it was. Yeah. Okay.
• 8:56
  Tim Burton. It's well anyway. Yeah, 36 years.
• 9:01
  Kind of smart by them doing this. Jenny Ortega's hot from Wednesday. you
• 9:05
  got Michael Keaton who's on a resurge you've got Winona
• 9:08
  Ryder from Stranger Things and then you pepper in Justin Thoreau who's very
• 9:13
  great comedic timing the wonderful who stills the movie Willem Dafoe yeah even
• 9:18
  you got Byrne Gorman who's kind of a creepy kind of guy he plays Father Damien
• 9:21
  Byrne Gorman yes and of course you know what Byrne Gorman is more famous for don't you,
• 9:26
  oh dear god I don't want to know oh you do want to know and even if you don't
• 9:30
  I want to tell you Doctor Who he's a,
• 9:34
  He starred in Torchwood The Doctor Who spin-off series With John Barrowman Which
• 9:40
  was big in the sort of mid-2000s Yeah,
• 9:45
  he was one of the main cast He was actually killed off after the second series
• 9:48
  We talked about this with Beetlejuice And I'm going to explain this And I know
• 9:53
  no one's going to interrupt me when I'm doing this,
• 9:56
  Well, it depends on what you say, but yes, go ahead.
• 10:00
  Oh, no, don't. No, okay. Okay. I didn't think you would actually answer that. Fuck me.
• 10:05
  So the first thing this film gets right is the continuity.
• 10:12
  And the reason I say that, we talked about this. When you had Barbara and Adam,
• 10:18
  the two main kind of characters for Beetlejuice, they were more of the.
• 10:24
  They were the side characters to me they didn't really add value to the film
• 10:29
  where the supporting cast, Jeffrey Jones Robert Gley, Dick Cavett all brought
• 10:36
  something and his name was escaping me.
• 10:39
  Shaddix who played Otto they had all these Glenn Shaddix,
• 10:45
  sorry I kept butchering that and I apologize but
• 10:48
  they all brought more to it the supporting cast
• 10:51
  made that film and so now
• 10:55
  you need to replace jeffrey jones you
• 10:58
  need to play charles you need to replace clen sacks who played otto you
• 11:02
  got to replace dick cab would play the agent you got to replace ralbo goulay
• 11:05
  and adam and barbara and they done it perfectly so you still got the core who
• 11:13
  made beetlejuice you still have michael keaton winona writer and you still have
• 11:18
  Catherine O'Hara as Delia.
• 11:20
  You got the key players back. All right?
• 11:23
  Then you throw in Danny DeVito, nice little cameo. Justin Thoreau as Rory.
• 11:29
  Willem Dafoe as Wolf Jackson.
• 11:31
  Byrne Gorman as Father Damien. Isabella Rossellini. And Monica Bellucci as... Sorry.
• 11:37
  Sorry, I just said Isabella Rossellini. I meant Monica Bellucci. My apologies.
• 11:41
  So not only do you interrupt me, you interrupt me with wrong information to give to our listeners.
• 11:47
  Yeah. my mistake. What a piece horrible piece of crap but you got Monica Lucia
• 11:53
  who plays Dolores and then you got the kind of side story I actually really
• 11:58
  enjoyed played by Arthur Conte.
• 12:00
  No, he plays Arthur Conte, right? No, Arthur Conte he plays Jeremy Frazier or
• 12:05
  is it played by Jamie Frazier? He's Arthur.
• 12:07
  I can't remember which one it is but he's the nice little red herring in it.
• 12:12
  So yeah, you get all these other people coming in to replace the the core that
• 12:16
  kind of helped Beetlejuice out.
• 12:19
  So, and you did it with, the characters they add, the actors they place to replace
• 12:24
  the other ones that we've lost, nail it out of the park.
• 12:27
  And quite frankly, they steal it, especially Justin Theroux and Willem Dafne. Yeah.
• 12:31
  Monica Bellucci is sadly underused, but she's very memorable in her scenes that she is in.
• 12:36
  She's sort of set up at first as the big bad, the main villain,
• 12:39
  but then she sort of disappears for way too long over the film.
• 12:42
  But yeah, this is great casting.
• 12:44
  And they're pretty excellent characters as well At the play,
• 12:49
  Yeah, Willem Dafoe plays the hammy noir cop. But he's an actor. He's an actor.
• 12:57
  Yeah, his name is Wolf Jackson, and he's famous for playing a character.
• 13:02
  We'll get to his moment in a second here.
• 13:05
  But again, it sticks with the original stuff. The opening credits,
• 13:10
  you've got Danny Elfman's new version of the score, which I loved.
• 13:13
  And like the original, it's going over the town, seeing this little small little
• 13:18
  area, and then it turns into the model that was featured in us.
• 13:21
  It's also good to see Elfman back working with Burton because I know they had
• 13:25
  fallen out over the years.
• 13:27
  Well, no, he's been back with him for a while. I know that, but just,
• 13:29
  you know, it's good to see them sort of back working together generally.
• 13:32
  Yeah, you can't. He left during Spider-Man 3, I think. He fired him or something.
• 13:37
  I can't remember what happened there.
• 13:38
  Or Spider-Man 2 or something like that. Right, but those were directed by Sam Raimi.
• 13:42
  Oh, Sam Raimi. That's right. I forgot, yeah. Yeah.
• 13:46
  Well, it looks like Danny Evans had fallen out a couple of directors.
• 13:49
  Yeah. So that actually makes up for my mistake with Monica Bellucci.
• 13:52
  No, no, no. Because it wasn't a mistake. He was fired by Sam Raimi. Yes, I know.
• 13:57
  But we're talking about Tim Burton, not Sam Raimi. No, so? Yeah.
• 14:01
  Doesn't matter. Oh, so I can admit my mistake, but you're so arrogant you can't.
• 14:05
  Right, right. Fucking right. You fucking right. Beelgees, Beelgees, Beelgees.
• 14:09
  Do you know who produced this? Who? Brad Pitt.
• 14:13
  Yes, I heard that. He produced it. Yes, I heard that somewhere along the line. He must have been.
• 14:17
  Yeah. Yeah, he must have really helped try to get this funding because he must
• 14:20
  have been a fan. Yeah. Must have been.
• 14:22
  Or maybe he was just one of these, he's become one of these suits that was just
• 14:26
  looking to milk the 80s nostalgia. No, Brad Pitt. I'm joking.
• 14:30
  Yeah, I know you're bullshit now. I'm joking. No, shut the fuck up.
• 14:34
  Yeah, I like Brad Pitt. Always have done.
• 14:36
  I always like Brad Pitt. Yeah. I like him. He's like a grounded guy.
• 14:40
  And a very good actor. I just picked up, I just picked up World War Z, director's cut of 4K.
• 14:45
  Yeah. I've always liked Pitt. I'm excited. And a very good and underrated actor.
• 14:48
  I know he's been nominated for Oscar, won an Oscar, actually.
• 14:51
  But back in the day, he was always considered just a pretty boy.
• 14:55
  But I always rated him as an actor as well. And he likes 12 Monkeys and stuff.
• 15:00
  Yeah, you'd think he got the Oscar for 12 Monkeys, didn't he?
• 15:03
  I think he was nominated, but he won the one recently for Once Upon a Time in
• 15:06
  Hollywood, I believe, for supporting actor.
• 15:09
  Yeah. Which is funny, because he was just playing himself on that one. Yeah.
• 15:14
  I liked him in Seven. That's kind of where I started liking him.
• 15:16
  Also, true romance as a stoner, Floyd. Yeah. Yeah.
• 15:22
  That was before Brad Pitt became Brad Pitt, though. Yeah.
• 15:25
  So, back to Beetlejuice. Next time in the life of Brad Pitt on Citizen Frame.
• 15:33
  I love what they're going with this. Lydia is the host of Ghost House,
• 15:37
  and she's a psychic medium. But she's not a fraud.
• 15:40
  She actually does see dead people. And what I liked about this,
• 15:43
  and I don't know if they're going that route, but she's not really cheating
• 15:47
  them. She actually does see these ghosts. Yeah.
• 15:49
  It reminded me of Michael J. Fox's character in The Frighteners.
• 15:52
  Yeah, but also, it's also a sort of reference to the likes of Vampira,
• 15:56
  but also Elvira, who came after.
• 15:59
  And Elvira, Cassandra Peterson, and Paul Rubens, and Tim Burton,
• 16:03
  Danny Elfman, they were all part of this sort of group back in the 80s when they all started off.
• 16:07
  So I like that as a sort of nod to the likes of Vampira and Elvira with her
• 16:12
  job as this sort of TV host.
• 16:15
  Yeah, and she still kind of lost the character.
• 16:19
  Yeah, so they keep Lydia pretty true to the character she was when we left her
• 16:22
  in Beetlejuice and she was finding her niche because obviously we find out she
• 16:27
  has a daughter, but she loses her- Her husband. Her husband to Piranha.
• 16:32
  And then, and she's got kind of a falling out with Delia. Yeah.
• 16:36
  And then we find out that-
• 16:38
  Geoffrey Jones' character dies in a plane crash, but not by the plane crash.
• 16:42
  He gets actually eaten by a shark.
• 16:44
  And clever enough, they do it with claymation because, sadly,
• 16:49
  they can't bring the actor back. Yeah, due to his taking photos of an underage boy.
• 16:54
  But here's the thing. A lot of people, you know, they were sort of,
• 16:58
  they didn't want to recast him because, you know, obviously of his sort of sex crimes, basically.
• 17:04
  But he will still get royalties from this film because they use his image.
• 17:09
  So they do several times, actually, you know, on the gravestone and stuff,
• 17:12
  but that's sort of beside the point.
• 17:14
  But I thought it was actually just stupid, this whole convoluted having him being ate by a shark.
• 17:19
  They should have just had him die between films.
• 17:23
  Yeah, they should have not written him in. Yes, I agree. You know,
• 17:27
  they did the same thing with Adam and Barbara. Yeah.
• 17:30
  And they're a one-line fix here. Yeah, well, do you see Tim Burton winked at
• 17:36
  the audience when he did that. Yeah. See, he's very clever.
• 17:39
  When he has to kind of cheat, he lets the audience know he's cheating.
• 17:43
  Yeah, no general wink. And I think that works because they make the comment,
• 17:49
  where's Adam and Barbara?
• 17:51
  Oh, they went back. They crossed the other side. I go, well,
• 17:55
  I thought they had to wait like 200 years. Oh, they found a loophole. Yeah.
• 17:58
  And then Astrid says, well, that's convenient.
• 18:01
  Yeah, yeah. I would say, I know Jenna Ortega has been typecast basically very
• 18:08
  early in her career as the whole goth girl, just like Wynonna was back for a
• 18:13
  bit back in the 80s and early 90s.
• 18:15
  But Jenna Ortega is a really good actress. She's very, very good.
• 18:20
  Yeah, but she's still playing. You can't. Yes, she hasn't branched out.
• 18:24
  I know, but you got to realize she's done nothing different. Yeah.
• 18:27
  Yeah, that's a fair point. But see, you can't, until she has more range, she's playing.
• 18:33
  But what she does, she does well. And yes, it's become a cliche, I agree.
• 18:37
  But she is, she sells it.
• 18:42
  I do like Danny DeVito's little cameo. Yes. I do like the kind of the Dolores thing.
• 18:47
  I like when she, and I love how the, for some reason, Tim Burton loves the 70s
• 18:52
  because there's a lot of 70s music in disco for actually.
• 18:55
  Soul Train and stuff. And it's because of the Soul Train and that's very 70s
• 19:00
  in the States, Soul Train, the dance show.
• 19:02
  So that's why he's using a lot of disco. Like Tragedy is playing with the Bee
• 19:06
  Gees as she's coming together and she's stapling herself. Pretty cool little
• 19:11
  effects. It's a good scene. Kind of fun. Yeah.
• 19:13
  Yeah. But again, it sets her up as this great sort of villain,
• 19:17
  which isn't properly sort of, well, you just don't see enough of her, actually.
• 19:21
  I love the backstory that we'll see coming up soon of her and Beetlejuice,
• 19:26
  you know, first meeting back during the Black Plague.
• 19:29
  Yeah. We'll jump into that one in a moment. Yeah, the character is introduced,
• 19:35
  and she's a soul sucker, pretty much is what she's doing.
• 19:37
  Yes. And that's how she takes out her victims. And she does that with Danny here.
• 19:43
  Nice little cameo, Danny DeVito. Mm-hmm.
• 19:46
  So they have to go back. So when they go, so Astrid, they have to go,
• 19:51
  Astrid's pretty much at their fucking same school as she is this Wednesday.
• 19:54
  Yeah, it is exactly the same school.
• 19:56
  Yeah. It probably is. Oh, no, sorry, sorry, I meant it's the exact same school
• 20:00
  that Lydia went to, actually, in the original.
• 20:04
  Oh, okay. Well, it almost looks like the school that Wednesday is going to in
• 20:06
  the Amos family. Possibly.
• 20:08
  Yeah. You know, Tim Burton's probably filming both scenes. She's doing the same character.
• 20:14
  But, yeah, they set her up. this whole scene where she's stapling herself,
• 20:18
  putting her body back together during tragedy and sucking the soul out of Danny DeVito.
• 20:23
  Yeah, you're setting her up to play the big villain here. And she really isn't.
• 20:28
  To me, the big villain is kind of Rory, Justin Theroux's character.
• 20:32
  He's actually excellent in this.
• 20:34
  He is very funny. And Beetlejuice, those are the two.
• 20:38
  I think there's one scene with her that it's one of my It's funnest scenes, and we'll get to it.
• 20:49
  And it is. I want it in the film, but I didn't want her in the film because nothing against her.
• 20:54
  It's just, it doesn't make any, why is she here? Yes. Really don't need her.
• 20:58
  But the scene you mentioned is the flashback when, and it's so fucking hilarious
• 21:05
  how Beetlejuice tells the story, and he does it in French.
• 21:09
  What the fuck does that mean? It's an Italian.
• 21:11
  Oh, it's Italian? Okay, so it's Italian.
• 21:14
  And it's black and white, and it's so campy and silly. I was like,
• 21:19
  why is he talking this in Italian?
• 21:21
  Well, because he's Italian, and so is she.
• 21:24
  You know, it's their backstory. I know, but come on, it just goes out of nowhere.
• 21:27
  But also, it's also... He goes, I was a humble grave robber.
• 21:31
  But also, it's an homage to Mario Bava, who was actually referenced in other
• 21:36
  scenes as well, and, you know, the whole Black Sunday and stuff.
• 21:39
  It has a sort of Black Sunday sort of vibe about it and all that sort of thing.
• 21:42
  I think it's a brilliant scene,
• 21:45
  I, uh.
• 21:48
  Because yeah, we were interested in Beetlejuice where he, when he's telling
• 21:52
  the story of how he met his wife and how she initially, she's the one who killed him.
• 21:56
  Yes. In real life. But before he dies, he chops her up into little pieces. Yes.
• 22:02
  Yeah. It almost had like a Sweeney Todd vibe to it. Oh yeah.
• 22:06
  But so there's a murderer going around of people, so suckering.
• 22:10
  And then here's where you meet Wolf Jackson.
• 22:12
  William Dafoe was so fucking funny. he is he plays this and
• 22:15
  the great thing about defoe he plays it like he's
• 22:18
  gonna get the oscar he just he's like really gonna go
• 22:21
  all in and he's he played he he's famous for a character called frank hardballer
• 22:27
  yeah that's right the cop plays but then he's died but he still thinks he is
• 22:33
  this sort of fictional cop yeah but you know defoe's defoe defoe is a sort of scene stealer you know,
• 22:41
  a film stealer, he's always going to be, be.
• 22:44
  Yeah. He's always. Yeah. He's that guy.
• 22:46
  Cause he died. He died doing a stunt. That's right. That's what happened.
• 22:49
  That's why half his head's missing. Or, you know, it's like his brain's exposed.
• 22:53
  Yeah. Yeah. And it's so funny. It's not even good. It's like so cartoonish, the brain.
• 22:57
  Yeah. You know, it's not even grotesque. Yeah. And every time he's looking,
• 23:01
  he's always looking at the camera.
• 23:02
  Like he's narrating it for us. Oh yeah. It's just, God, he's so,
• 23:06
  anytime him or Justin Theroux are on the scene, I just have a good and Justin
• 23:11
  Thoreau is brilliant playing that sort of, you just know he's a sleazeball you
• 23:14
  know, and later on during the wedding scene,
• 23:17
  whenever it all comes out when Beetlejuice and Jackson were the truth serum
• 23:19
  you know what I mean, it's payback like, but you just know he's such an asshole,
• 23:24
  but he's really due to playing that sort of
• 23:26
  creep, that fraud, you know Yeah.
• 23:30
  You knew right away that Rory was scumbag.
• 23:33
  Oh yeah, but he's pretending to be like a modern man, you know all his hair
• 23:36
  you know he's talking about his grandfather, Dan And he goes, that was 40 years ago.
• 23:41
  He goes, I know, but my child heart, I still have my child heart.
• 23:46
  I'm still living, you know, as a child, you know.
• 23:49
  And he's pretending to be in touch with his emotions and stuff,
• 23:52
  but he's basically a complete fraud and a creep.
• 23:55
  Yeah. Yeah, the child in me just sees it as yesterday. Yes, exactly.
• 24:00
  Or something like that. Yeah. Jesus.
• 24:03
  Yeah, so Dolores wants to go back and get Beetlejuice because she's part of
• 24:07
  this soul seeker death cult. Yeah, yeah. She wants revenge on him as well. Yeah.
• 24:13
  She pretty much at this point just wants revenge. Yeah.
• 24:16
  For chopping her up. It's a silly side story, but subplot, but I do like,
• 24:23
  I think what they should have done was write her out, Dolores,
• 24:28
  and ask Mona Bellucci, would she come in as a cameo?
• 24:31
  And we can learn how Beetlejuice died. Or even... And just have that as a flashback.
• 24:35
  Or even... But we didn't need her to come out to get revamped.
• 24:37
  Or even have her as a cameo, maybe towards the end, setting her up as the big
• 24:44
  bad villain for a third one.
• 24:46
  You know? That would have worked, I think. Maybe, or maybe she comes back to
• 24:50
  marry him and he's happy at the end. Well, the problem with this... film overall.
• 24:54
  And I do really like this film. I've enjoyed it.
• 24:57
  Both times I've watched it quite a lot. But the problem is there is way too much going on.
• 25:01
  I mean, with all this stuff with Jenna Ortega and, you know,
• 25:05
  her boyfriend, who's a ghost. Arthur. Yeah. Arthur. Yeah.
• 25:08
  I love that side story. Yeah. That is the best.
• 25:12
  I would have been happy with just the Rory story and the Arthur story.
• 25:16
  It's pretty dark. He's basically murdered his mom and dad. So he has. Yeah.
• 25:21
  Not basically, he has murdered them. And I didn't catch that. I did not see that.
• 25:27
  I've got to be honest, the first time I watched it. Here we go. No, no, no.
• 25:31
  I didn't, but I knew there was something up with him. But it didn't quite.
• 25:34
  And then whenever it's revealed that he's a ghost, I was like, oh, of course.
• 25:38
  You know, sort of kicked myself. You know, I knew something was up,
• 25:41
  but it didn't quite 100% know exactly what they were going to hit us with.
• 25:49
  When Wolf Jackson is investigating. I could have watched, I want a Wolf Jackson spin on.
• 25:54
  So when Wolf Jackson is investigating and he's, I think he's at the dry cleaners
• 26:01
  at this point. Yes. He calls the dry cleaner.
• 26:04
  And he goes, cases like this make me wonder why he became a cop.
• 26:09
  Yeah, well, it's a whole story. But it's the way he says it.
• 26:12
  And it's done in that old 50s noir kind of humpy bull guard.
• 26:16
  Yeah, that's it. He's a sort of long suffering, hard drinking,
• 26:19
  chain-smoking, sort of, you know, tortured soul of a cop.
• 26:23
  I've seen way too much, you know, on these streets, you know.
• 26:26
  Yeah, because he goes, cases like this, make me wonder why I became a cop.
• 26:30
  Yeah. And Janice, his assistant, goes, you're not a cop. You're an actor. You're an actor.
• 26:35
  And then he goes, thanks, Janice. You keep me real. That's right. Yeah.
• 26:42
  So stupid. Yeah. And she has the prompts and all for him.
• 26:45
  We know whenever he's giving a speech, you know, to, you know,
• 26:47
  the other cops that are under him, you know.
• 26:49
  She has you know the prompts for him to read off the script basically you know,
• 26:55
  that's great and then he just you know he is he plays the role of Suscon Viction
• 27:00
  oh yeah he's just he's playing it dead straight he's not playing it for laughs
• 27:04
  Defoe he's playing it dead and
• 27:06
  that's what makes it funny he knows what he Defoe knows what he's doing,
• 27:11
  Now, when Rory and Lydia go see Beetlejuice and he's in the office,
• 27:20
  I'm here to pour my guts out.
• 27:22
  It's kind of a creepy scene because he impregnates Lydia with a baby of him.
• 27:29
  I love the baby. So do. Baby Beetlejuice.
• 27:33
  It's just so gruesome.
• 27:36
  Yeah, because the baby pops out of Lydia, then starts nibbling on her leg and
• 27:42
  Beatles just goes, ah he's a leg man, just like his old man,
• 27:46
  Well, one thing I did I like about this is that didn't tone Beetlejuice down
• 27:51
  he's still a sort of sleazeball and also, you know Oh, he actually upped the game in this one.
• 28:00
  He doesn't, yeah, there's no there's nothing this is not PC Yeah,
• 28:06
  oh yeah, quite ballsy in some of the stuff true to the character, so they do.
• 28:11
  You know, which is a relief, you know, because it could have been,
• 28:14
  you know, toned down nonsense, you know, and that would have been basically
• 28:20
  a dishonour to the original.
• 28:22
  I, um, I didn't like the Delia thing with the asps.
• 28:28
  I thought that was stupid. Yeah, again, that was something that they could easily
• 28:31
  have lost, and that stuck with the snakes, and her, she doesn't even have to die.
• 28:36
  I know that sort of resolved with her eventually sort of
• 28:38
  then you know basically meeting the Jeffrey
• 28:41
  Jones character again you know in the afterlife that's her sort
• 28:44
  of character well it would have been better if it
• 28:47
  was a self-sacrifice from Beetlejuice or somebody
• 28:50
  who monocably gets her while trying to save Lydia give her an arc that way because
• 28:54
  she's always been kind of selfish so if you gave her that death and that was
• 29:02
  meant something but this whole oh I forgot they didn't defang the ass Stupid and pointless, yeah.
• 29:09
  And it was one of the things they could have lost with this film for sure.
• 29:12
  I think because they were tackling so many subjects, I don't think they really
• 29:17
  know how to write these out.
• 29:18
  The problem is we don't get enough time as the audience to enjoy or become properly
• 29:24
  invested in each of these plot lines because there are so many of them.
• 29:28
  So a lot of it sort of gets lost in the mix and there is definitely a lot of
• 29:33
  it that could have been axed, especially the stuff with the snakes.
• 29:37
  Or something different. Yeah, it just didn't make any sense.
• 29:42
  Yes. Yeah, it was just a bit... What?
• 29:45
  Definitely put out charge completely. You've got continuity in this film and it's doing quite well.
• 29:52
  And then it just comes off as lazy when you do something.
• 29:55
  What? I would have preferred... Like I said, I really enjoyed this,
• 29:59
  but I would have preferred something a bit more focused instead of this whole
• 30:04
  sort of my jumping from storyline to storyline.
• 30:06
  But it does come across very manic and you're like, so what you know,
• 30:11
  this sort of thing where if they had it just, maybe did it at a slower pace
• 30:16
  focused on maybe just Lydia and the Ortega character,
• 30:21
  and also, you know, with,
• 30:24
  Beetlejuice and you know, the ex-wife, essentially and just sort of stuck with
• 30:28
  those storylines, that would have in my opinion, worked a lot better.
• 30:34
  Jumping on one of the other storylines, I liked Arthur's and I do like when
• 30:38
  he pretty much takes her vulnerability, uses her vulnerability,
• 30:44
  astrids to lure her to read from the handbook of the recently deceased.
• 30:51
  Which I should have caught that right away. The minute he had that,
• 30:53
  that's only given to people who have just recently died.
• 30:57
  And then she pretty much lures her. He treks her.
• 31:03
  He emotionally manipulates her. Until opening the gateway to the afterlife.
• 31:08
  He tells her that she'll be able to meet her dad and that's the final sort of.
• 31:11
  Yeah, he plays on that because she's so depressed. Yeah.
• 31:14
  With Lydia, she was depressed because she wasn't happy. Yes.
• 31:17
  She wasn't happy with her stepmother. She was just no friends.
• 31:21
  Yeah. And we talked about that. She was suicidal. With this one,
• 31:25
  she's a dark character, just like Lydia was.
• 31:28
  But this is more around the fact she lost her father.
• 31:31
  Yeah. and also the fact that she also manipulates the fact that she now discovers
• 31:36
  that ghosts are real because for a year she thought her mum was a fraud so he's
• 31:41
  playing on that as well plus he says but if you go in there the whole afterlife thing,
• 31:47
  you'll be able to meet your dad but he's just looking to take it back to the real world essentially,
• 31:52
  but Beetlejuice has plans for him.
• 31:56
  I like when Lydia finds out what's going on and she goes to get Beetlejuice.
• 32:01
  And obviously, Beetlejuice, you marry me. Yeah.
• 32:04
  And we'll get this done. And I do like how they played it because I didn't see
• 32:08
  it right away because they kind of do it real quick.
• 32:10
  There's how the chase scene happens. This whole manic chase scene from getting
• 32:14
  the passport. He wants the human passport to go back to life. Yeah.
• 32:17
  And then she'll be sent to whatever, the afterlife.
• 32:21
  And there's this chase with the Soul Train theme. and that's where you see the
• 32:25
  dad. Yes. And he's being eaten by piranha.
• 32:29
  Yeah. I love the makeup. It's so easy. Yeah.
• 32:32
  The dad storyline as well isn't given enough time to breathe.
• 32:36
  Sorry, is not given enough time to breathe, you know, pun intended,
• 32:40
  because there's- I think it is because it's the whole purpose of why Asher is depressed.
• 32:46
  It's mentioned too many, it's mentioned quite a few times about the father.
• 32:50
  So I'm okay with that. they even have the pictures the flashback when she goes
• 32:55
  looks at the pictures that lydia had.
• 32:57
  I know i think that i thought the father thing was okay yes
• 33:01
  but you know they did plant the season i agree with you i
• 33:04
  agree with you but at the same time we aren't
• 33:07
  given enough or even we don't even see enough of the dad for whenever the payoff
• 33:12
  happens where she's reunited when actually the three of them are reunited along
• 33:16
  you know with lydia i don't think there is enough emotional impact as an audience
• 33:21
  because we're just not giving enough because we're jumping back and forward to other storylines.
• 33:26
  So no, I disagree with that. I do think they planted the seed plenty of times
• 33:31
  for the dad and him showing up.
• 33:35
  At the end of the day, this is a comedy. No, I know you don't want too much.
• 33:38
  It's just, I think we're definitely given too little with that for it to be
• 33:43
  a proper payoff whenever they are reunited.
• 33:46
  But yes, you know, obviously it's a horror comedy and everybody just wants to
• 33:49
  see Beetlejuice being Beetlejuice.
• 33:51
  You know, in this case, Defoe and, you know, Monica Bellucci.
• 33:56
  But yeah, there is a lot going on.
• 33:58
  And I get that. But at the end of the day, you got to have a happy medium.
• 34:03
  At the end of the day, it's a horror comedy.
• 34:06
  So, and it's Beetlejuice. So they're not going to get. It's such a smug little
• 34:09
  shit, you know. You know, it's not going to become some kind of.
• 34:13
  Yes, it does. They're not going to romanticize this kind of film.
• 34:17
  I do like when, you know, he's going to get his passport stamped,
• 34:21
  gets his passport stamped, and it's obviously Beetlejuice.
• 34:25
  And this is the one I was talking about. So what's he say? I can't remember
• 34:28
  what he says to me. He says something like, I think that's what Joukowsky.
• 34:32
  He's talking about Dorstievsky. Dorstievsky.
• 34:35
  Because earlier in the film how he sort of romanticizes or you know romances
• 34:41
  Astrid they're talking about war and peace Dorf Dieski and then
• 34:46
  it's ironic then later on when Beetlejuice sort of tricks him and quotes Dorf
• 34:51
  Dieski back at him you know it's like yeah yeah because he goes he goes I think
• 34:57
  that's how Dusky Alci once said it later fucker yeah yeah so it's like sort of,
• 35:04
  because he used Dorf Tieski to impress Astrid to get in there with her, to manipulate her.
• 35:10
  I was wondering why he used that name. I missed that. Okay, that's clever.
• 35:15
  But I just love it. I think he's Tess Gessie once said, later fucker.
• 35:21
  Yeah, and then I thought this is more of what you might have been saying about tackling so much.
• 35:28
  This wedding scene, way too much is going on.
• 35:32
  Beetlejuice gives Rory the shoe serum. Let's end that story real quick. He'll spill his guts.
• 35:37
  Then you've got MacArthur Park sung by Richard Harris, and they're all singing.
• 35:43
  Kind of funny, quite funny, actually.
• 35:45
  Remember they did the scene with Beetlejuice when he sings Richard Marks right
• 35:50
  here waiting for you that I was in the theater with my mom and I was crying
• 35:54
  laughing I was stitches at that as well the one on a writer yeah,
• 35:57
  right here waiting for you yeah no
• 36:01
  it's very funny but yeah the wedding scene I did like the part whenever Beetlejuice
• 36:06
  takes over and you know injects Justin Theroux with a truth serum but then all
• 36:11
  these social media influencers all addicted to their phones Beetlejuice sort
• 36:16
  of basically magics them inside their phones you know,
• 36:19
  sucks them inside them I thought, I like that part, yeah,
• 36:22
  and then they had the worms and then when you have Dolores kicks open the door
• 36:26
  yes, with the sandworm, oh sorry Dolores later, yeah yeah, she kicks open the
• 36:32
  door and he goes, what the and they bleep him,
• 36:36
  do they, I don't know I think.
• 36:40
  They didn't bleep him when I saw this in the cinema, but when I watched it no,
• 36:44
  you're wrong, they bleep him and streaming no they bleeped him did they do that
• 36:47
  it was deliberate right they did bleep him right they did that deliberately
• 36:51
  to go back to what I was saying about Beetlejuice you can only say the F word,
• 36:55
  once right so the reason they did that was he only said it once because he said
• 36:59
  it's like an end joke later fucker,
• 37:01
  it's an end joke yeah so that's why that was bleeped yeah and the other one
• 37:04
  wasn't but it's a great line even though it is bleeped and in fact the bleeping
• 37:07
  almost makes it funnier you know yeah he goes what the fuck and put bleep,
• 37:13
  yeah poor Beetlejuice I love the sort of tie-up sort of scene at the end.
• 37:18
  You know, the dream sequence.
• 37:21
  Oh, God, that was creepy, actually. Pilydia, yes.
• 37:24
  Yeah, and we were Astrid, you know, they go to Castle Dracula and she meets
• 37:28
  a Dracula impersonator.
• 37:31
  She gives birth. And then she has the baby, and then Astrid has the baby of
• 37:37
  baby Beetlejuice. It's baby Beetlejuice.
• 37:38
  That's whatever, you know, it's like a dream, it's a nightmare.
• 37:42
  I think it was basically a two fingers up to disney
• 37:45
  from burton which are also sort
• 37:48
  of referenced as well earlier on i think there's a lot of
• 37:50
  sort of like two fingers up at disney in this film well
• 37:53
  there's a couple anyway but i think that was you know the whole dreamy soft
• 37:56
  focus happy ending but it turns out it's actually a nightmare and she gives
• 38:01
  birth to baby beetlejuice you know yeah yeah you know you you watch these films
• 38:09
  and you just you don't know how they're going to turn out especially is something
• 38:13
  like I mentioned so late in the game. Yeah.
• 38:16
  Unbelievably pleasantly surprised. I enjoyed it a lot.
• 38:20
  It boils down to casting. Yeah. I mean, bringing on Thoreau and bringing on
• 38:25
  Willem Dafoe was brilliant.
• 38:26
  Those two were just scene-stealers, even over Beetlejuice.
• 38:31
  I think he can't see it just about, but yeah, they're great in it as well.
• 38:35
  Ortega's very good. Winona's still got it. You know, you have Monica Bellucci as well.
• 38:42
  I would have lost all of the stuff with Charles and stuff.
• 38:45
  That was just stupid he didn't need to be in this
• 38:48
  it could have had just him written out with a one line fix you
• 38:51
  know died in between films or whatever yeah you
• 38:54
  had the charles side story and then you had the ass
• 38:58
  scene which was stupid yes then you had delores the whole thing when you can
• 39:02
  just heard have her as a flashback telling the story about beetlejuice died
• 39:06
  that would have been funny and he could have kept that black and white scene
• 39:08
  which i thought was quite funny that would have been fine but you didn't need
• 39:12
  this whole murder mystery but again if you didn't have that then you wouldn't have Willem Dafoe.
• 39:17
  I would have... So you got to have, if you want Willem Dafoe,
• 39:21
  you got to have the Dolores character.
• 39:23
  But you could have had Dafoe maybe just investigating Beetlejuice for,
• 39:27
  I don't know, trying to escape from the afterlife or something.
• 39:29
  I don't know. You still could have had him.
• 39:32
  When you talk about it, you can see why she's there.
• 39:36
  It doesn't kill the film, obviously. She's underused. I think she's very good
• 39:39
  in it and very memorable in it. She's just very underused, which is a bit of a waste.
• 39:44
  I would have maybe lost the subplot about Astrid's dad and just sort of No, that makes no sense.
• 39:53
  Well you could still lose that The whole point of her character is because her dad's passing.
• 39:57
  You could have had her being tricked for some other reason though by Arthur but yeah,
• 40:03
  you know what the thing is, see what we're talking about they're all actually
• 40:06
  really good ideas but this film is one hour and 45 minutes and there's just
• 40:10
  not enough room for them all to breathe,
• 40:13
  Yeah, you had to remove one. Yeah, at least.
• 40:16
  But I think the Charles one should have been removed. Definitely.
• 40:21
  Also, hardest Charles talk whenever he's got no head. Oh, come on. I know, I know.
• 40:28
  Oh, you know what, though? I was upset they killed Bob. Yeah,
• 40:32
  Bob will come back, but I bet you Bob's back in the third one. He's too popular.
• 40:36
  And all the wee shrunken head guys running about the town was funny as well.
• 40:40
  Yeah, Bob. There's a bunch of guys running around shrunken heads.
• 40:42
  They run out of the house, Justin Theroux shitting his bed that's awesome,
• 40:49
  I see one of the best scenes as well, is whenever the kids are trick or treating
• 40:54
  just before this happens,
• 40:55
  and they call to Justin Theroux's house and they basically rip him off for all
• 41:01
  his candy, and they go something like, fucking asshole,
• 41:05
  it's basically the kids say what everyone in the audience is thinking,
• 41:10
  it's just a small line but it's just really funny,
• 41:15
  Yeah, I'm very pleased the movie worked out. It's kind of like watching the
• 41:19
  new Indiana Jones when I saw that.
• 41:21
  I was so pleased how it worked out for me because you get so scared when they
• 41:24
  go into a franchise you really like or they're revisiting a movie that they
• 41:27
  saw years earlier doing a sequel.
• 41:29
  So it's like maybe there's hope for a good short circuit sequel.
• 41:34
  Well, with this, I would even, I don't know, I'm sort of torn.
• 41:38
  I would think maybe, obviously the original is a classic, a much loved classic,
• 41:42
  but in terms of enjoyment factor, The second one shades it for me over the first.
• 41:48
  See, that's the problem. You can kind of not see what you're saying,
• 41:52
  though, because you're saying they're tackling so many stories,
• 41:55
  and you're right about that.
• 41:56
  But the problem is, that's why you might like it more.
• 42:00
  You just don't know it because the movie's so fast-paced and so nonstop because
• 42:04
  of all this chaos going on.
• 42:06
  That's one of the reasons you might like it over the original. Possibly, yeah.
• 42:09
  I just think it could have been even better, just with maybe losing a couple
• 42:13
  of, one or two things. But, you know, the two times I watched it, I very much enjoyed it.
• 42:20
  Yeah, they're both solid outings. And this is how you do a sequel to a film.
• 42:24
  You keep true to the source material, and then you implement new characters.
• 42:28
  And you do it a little differently.
• 42:31
  But they kind of kept the still visuals. They kept the afterlife the same.
• 42:35
  Sandworms and all that. Yeah. Yeah, and they used the same kind of effects they
• 42:40
  used back in the 80s for those.
• 42:41
  So it really works. Yeah. They really did what a sequel should do.
• 42:46
  So there you go. And speaking of that, we're going to be talking about Smile 2.
• 42:50
  And Smile, I did not like at all. Neither did you. But this new one,
• 42:55
  the director went 18 plus.
• 42:57
  And I remember the movie's fucking great and gory. So we'll be talking about
• 43:02
  that one. So it'll be interesting to see what that does as a sequel.
• 43:06
  So there you go. That's all I've got. Good. Anything you want to add?
• 43:10
  Are you looking forward to the new season of Stranger Things, Karen?
• 43:14
  I'm looking forward to the new episode. Go fuck yourself.
• 43:18
  That was a good one. Yeah. Like I said, we've been kind of busy here,
• 43:22
  so we're going to wrap this one up. We appreciate your patience and everything.
• 43:25
  Hope you enjoyed the Beetlejuices, and we'll be talking soon with Pete Atkins,
• 43:30
  screenwriter of Whistmaster, the West Craven 1996, I believe,
• 43:34
  produced horror movie, and that should be a fun one.
• 43:38
  Guys, give us a shout. It's this frame underscore podcast on Instagram, of course, Facebook.
• 43:44
  That's all I've got.
• 43:44
  Music.