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The benefits of using a no-contest clause in your trust · The Legal Exchange

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: This is the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky from the
• 0:04
  Speaker 1: law firm of Cushing and Dolan and Susan Powers of
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: the Armstrong Advisory Group. Each week, Todd and Susan will
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: discuss many topics, including estate planning, how to avoid probate,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: and protecting your money from a nursing home. If you
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: need assistance in any of these areas, or have a
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  Speaker 1: question about another issue that may affect your future, call
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  Speaker 1: to make an appointment. That's eight sixty six eight four
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  Speaker 1: eight five six ninety nine. Operators are standing by. Now
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Here are your hosts, Todd Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 0:36
  Speaker 2: Welcome into the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. I'm Susan Powers,
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group, and I'm
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with the law firm
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: of Cushing and Dolan with a master's in taxation. Welcome Todd.
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  Speaker 2: How are you today?
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  Speaker 3: I'm never better in you.
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  Speaker 2: I am excellent. Thank you. What do you have for
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  Speaker 2: us this week?
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  Speaker 3: Couple of things.
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  Speaker 4: I've got a Pennsylvania Pellet court case and this one
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  Speaker 4: is really dealing with a trustee who's really stealing money
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  Speaker 4: from the trust, and turns out he's stealing money. But
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  Speaker 4: it's an interesting trust. It's drafted, it's got distribution committees
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  Speaker 4: decide how distribution comes out, and yet this trustee managed
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  Speaker 4: to start stealing money, and how the trust actually works
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  Speaker 4: to save things. So you're going to see that the
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  Speaker 4: trust planning is still a good plan. And also why
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  Speaker 4: they did this trust it was to help get on
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  Speaker 4: governmental benefits, which is also important. So there's a lot
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  Speaker 4: to learn about this case, not just the fiduciary breach
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  Speaker 4: of duty problem. Then we jump over to Iowa where
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  Speaker 4: we have an appellate court case there, and this one
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  Speaker 4: is all about the no contest clause. In fact, I
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  Speaker 4: can't tell you enough about how courts have been narrowing
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  Speaker 4: the implementation or the effect of no contest clauses. Doesn't
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  Speaker 4: mean we don't use them. We still absolutely use them.
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  Speaker 4: They're important, but it's important to see here how it's
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  Speaker 4: being used and when do you enforce the no contest
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  Speaker 4: clause and when is it allowed to be enforced. I
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  Speaker 4: think we're going to learn a lot about no contest clauses,
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  Speaker 4: how to use them, when to use them, and how
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  Speaker 4: they work in this particular case.
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  Speaker 3: But of course before.
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  Speaker 4: We do any of that, we are going to remind
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  Speaker 4: you about. This is all for people who have planned.
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  Speaker 4: There's so many people who don't get around to planning
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  Speaker 4: or have done their planning and find themselves faced with
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  Speaker 4: nursing home admission. Right even when you've done your planning,
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  Speaker 4: you might have stuff in the trust and items outside
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  Speaker 4: the trust. We got to deal with those items outside
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  Speaker 4: the trust. And for people who have never planned, we
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  Speaker 4: really got to deal with items that are outside the trust.
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  Speaker 4: So get this guide Long term care Planning for the procrastinator.
• 2:49
  Speaker 4: What we can do last minute to protect houses, vacation homes,
• 2:54
  Speaker 4: rental properties four oh one k's iras folks. They're all
• 2:58
  Speaker 4: treated differently, and they're treated differently for married couples versus
• 3:03
  Speaker 4: single people. A little something for everyone. Don't write the check.
• 3:08
  Speaker 4: Get this guide if you're faced with nursing home admission
• 3:11
  Speaker 4: eight six six eight four eight five six nine nine
• 3:15
  Speaker 4: or legal exchange show dot com you can download it
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: right there again eight six six eight four eight five
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  Speaker 4: six nine nine or legal exchange show dot com to
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  Speaker 4: get that and don't write the check to the nursing home. Okay,
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  Speaker 4: that said, let's head over to Pennsylvania, the appellate court
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  Speaker 4: case trustee stealing. Let's see what's going on. Mike Senior
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  Speaker 4: and Betty created an irrevocable trust in order to qualify
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  Speaker 4: for VA benefits through some governmental programs. Okay, I don't
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  Speaker 4: really understand what that is, but.
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  Speaker 2: Sounds probably the veterans aid that they use to provide.
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  Speaker 4: Right, there's so many types, so it's good for them
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  Speaker 4: to get it. TRUS is now funded with what E
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  Speaker 4: trade stocks and bonds worth about three hundred thousand dollars.
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  Speaker 4: The trustee is the grandson Stefan.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 4: The trust provides that no distributions can be made to
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  Speaker 4: the donors or I mean to the donors' kids or
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  Speaker 4: the donors' grandkids without approval from what they call a
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  Speaker 4: distribution committee. We don't talk about that a lot, but
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  Speaker 4: we've used them. It's in this case, this distribution committee
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  Speaker 4: is not deciding by the trustee Stefan. It's deciding by
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  Speaker 4: Uncle David and Mike Junior. So Uncle David and Mike Junior,
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  Speaker 4: the father of the trustee, so checks and balances, which
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  Speaker 4: is the Stefan is the trustee, the grandson, and so
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  Speaker 4: in twenty thirteen, Stefan the trustee began loaning money to himself.
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  Speaker 4: Twenty sixteen and tw eighteen, he was doing this. Senior died,
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  Speaker 4: then Betsy died respectively. Well, in twenty eighteen, Steffan's business failed.
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  Speaker 4: You're going to find that he was taking money out
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  Speaker 4: for his business and the trust was valued at about
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  Speaker 4: thirty five dollars.
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  Speaker 3: Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Wow, so he took out a lot of money over time.
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  Speaker 4: Steffan was charged with theft and misappropriation of trust money.
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  Speaker 4: One to three years in prison, two years probation. That
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  Speaker 4: was all ordered and he was ordered to pay back
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  Speaker 4: two hundred and one thousand dollars to the trust. Well,
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  Speaker 4: he didn't like that, so he appealed the appellate court.
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  Speaker 4: During the appellate Court, he argued that they failed to
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  Speaker 4: show that he intended to steal the money, as he
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  Speaker 4: really believed that he was investing the money in his
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  Speaker 4: business which would benefit the trust as a whole. Well,
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  Speaker 4: the appellate court affirmed the lower court, saying that the
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  Speaker 4: evidence showed right after the trust was formed and funded,
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  Speaker 4: he began taking money out directly without the distribution committee's
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  Speaker 4: approval and putting the money directly into his personal account
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  Speaker 4: and his business account. You can't do that, just can't
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  Speaker 4: do that. And so that clearly made the decision the
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  Speaker 4: correct one that you know he was stealing money.
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  Speaker 3: But you know what, this is actually.
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  Speaker 4: Interesting and I want to explain why and what we
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  Speaker 4: can learn from this. So this was a near vocable trust.
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  Speaker 4: We talk about them all the time. This time they
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  Speaker 4: were approved for veterans benefits, but hey, we do it
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  Speaker 4: for Medicaid planning, similar idea. So first you know they planned,
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  Speaker 4: they got the governmental benefits. I suspect it was based
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  Speaker 4: on how it was drafted that protected the assets. It
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  Speaker 4: also would have protected the assets from the nursing home right.
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  Speaker 4: So like to get nursing home protection. No distributions of
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  Speaker 4: principle to the donors. That's good, we want that all
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  Speaker 4: the time. Here it was more restrictive than that right.
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  Speaker 4: They couldn't get principal or income distributions could only be
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  Speaker 4: made to the kids and the grandkids. And there was
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  Speaker 4: a distribution of income. We usually like to give it
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  Speaker 4: to our clients to help them. So it's taxed at
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  Speaker 4: the donors level and not tax at the trust level,
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  Speaker 4: which are higher. So we make our trust even more
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  Speaker 4: flexible than this one. We even put a limited power
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  Speaker 4: of appointment in our trust where principal and income can
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  Speaker 4: go to kids, usually in the trustees discretion, to make
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  Speaker 4: it a grand tour trust. Again, so it's taxed at
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  Speaker 4: the trust level, I mean at the kids level or
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  Speaker 4: at the parents level, and not the kids level. But
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  Speaker 4: in this case, distributions of income and principle couldn't be
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  Speaker 4: paid out at all, you know, but we want it
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  Speaker 4: paid out. We want this language so that it's included
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  Speaker 4: in the estate to get a step up in basis
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  Speaker 4: under twenty thirty six to reduce the capital gains tax
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  Speaker 4: when the kids get the assets. So this was a
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  Speaker 4: really restrictive trust and the distributions could only come out
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  Speaker 4: to the kids and grandkids, and they could only do
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  Speaker 4: it with a distribution committee.
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  Speaker 2: Parentsly even figured a way out to do it without it.
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  Speaker 4: Well yeah, that's the problem, right, So in this case,
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  Speaker 4: in five years, these assets would have been not only
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  Speaker 4: available for getting them good this veterans benefits, they also
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  Speaker 4: would have got governmental i mean nursing home protection. So
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  Speaker 4: way more restrictive than needed compared to our irrevocable trusts.
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  Speaker 4: But I just wanted to expend a little time on
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  Speaker 4: this distribution committee. That's a good idea. If you don't
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  Speaker 4: trust people, you put two other people involved in making
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  Speaker 4: the distributions and you take that power out of the
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  Speaker 4: hands of the trustee.
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  Speaker 3: I like it.
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  Speaker 4: But in this case, people have to be engaged. They
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  Speaker 4: have to be involved, right, So if you're distribution committee,
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  Speaker 4: you should have been demanding accountings.
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, and looking at the accounts and reviewing things.
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  Speaker 4: I mean, if you were getting these accountings once a year,
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  Speaker 4: once a quarter, just to say, hey, once every six months,
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  Speaker 4: let me see what's coming in and what's going out
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  Speaker 4: of this, and they would have known right away, right,
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  Speaker 4: and they could have moved in and stopped what was
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  Speaker 4: going on. So I like committees, I like trustees. I
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  Speaker 4: like checks and balances, but you know, people have to
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  Speaker 4: be engaged in order for any plan to really work.
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  Speaker 4: But understand, folks, without this plan, we're going to complete failure.
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  Speaker 2: Right, And you can do those checks and balances really
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  Speaker 2: with more than one kid, right, You could have more
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  Speaker 2: than one kid kind of serving as your unofficial distribution
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  Speaker 2: committee if you will.
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  Speaker 4: You absolutely can and so so, folks, That's what I
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  Speaker 4: want to sort of tell you about this case, right.
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  Speaker 4: It was a nice example of planning and how the
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  Speaker 4: year of vocable trust works to protect assets from the
• 10:00
  Speaker 4: nursing home, but without planning. This guide long term care
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  Speaker 4: planning for procrastinators will help you save money last minute.
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  Speaker 4: Don't write to check learn how to protect assets last
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  Speaker 4: minute from the nursing home eight sixty six eight four
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  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We've got much
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  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the legal exchange with Todd Lotsky. I'm
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  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm sure joined by Todd Lutsky, a partner with
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  Speaker 2: the law firm of Cushing and Dolan with a masters
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  Speaker 2: in taxation. Where are we headed now, Todd?
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  Speaker 4: We are going to head over to Iowa. We have
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  Speaker 4: an appellate court case. They are dealing with no contest clauses. Yeah,
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  Speaker 4: the courts are really cracking down on these. There seemed
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  Speaker 4: to be limiting them more and more than I would
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  Speaker 4: like to see. Some oftimes, I think they just get
• 14:22
  Speaker 4: the they just get the law wrong. But let's take
• 14:25
  Speaker 4: a look at this one. So Rex and Mildred had
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  Speaker 4: three kids, Karen, Kathy, and Ken apparently are like case.
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  Speaker 2: Yes.
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  Speaker 4: In two thousand and two, Mildred died Okay. Rex then
• 14:42
  Speaker 4: began struggling to care for himself, so Kathy moved in
• 14:46
  Speaker 4: to help out well. In twenty nineteen, Karen moved in
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  Speaker 4: with Rex to provide care, and then Kathy ended up
• 14:55
  Speaker 4: moving out after Karen and Kathy were not on the
• 15:00
  Speaker 4: same page with how to provide care at the time,
• 15:04
  Speaker 4: so Kathy then moved out and Karen stayed stayed in
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  Speaker 4: there well. In twenty twenty one, Rex does a new will, shocker,
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  Speaker 4: which gives most of his assets to Karen, who's said
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  Speaker 4: bris who moved in, and puts in a no contest clause.
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  Speaker 3: Good for him.
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  Speaker 4: Rex also went out of his way. The attorney told
• 15:26
  Speaker 4: him to take a cognitive test prior to executing the
• 15:30
  Speaker 4: new will you know, in anticipation sure of litigation, and
• 15:36
  Speaker 4: guess what, he got a perfect score. The doctor even
• 15:39
  Speaker 4: out of his way to write a note saying that
• 15:42
  Speaker 4: he can make his own decisions. Good because nineteen days later,
• 15:48
  Speaker 4: after the will was executed, Rex died. Wow, well as
• 15:54
  Speaker 4: you might imagine Ken and Kathy. Remember Kathy moved. Cathy
• 15:57
  Speaker 4: left Ken and Kathy to the will, claiming there was
• 16:02
  Speaker 4: a lack of capacity and undue influence shocker, So the
• 16:08
  Speaker 4: trial court ruled in favor of Karen, saying no, there
• 16:11
  Speaker 4: wasn't any lack of capacity on doing flux.
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  Speaker 2: Thank goodness that he did all took those extra steps.
• 16:16
  Speaker 3: Huh yeah. Yeah.
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  Speaker 4: Then Karen went ahead and said, you know what, I
• 16:20
  Speaker 4: want to enforce the no contest clause against my siblings.
• 16:23
  Speaker 4: Fair enough, Well, Kathy claimed that she acted in good faith,
• 16:30
  Speaker 4: that the claims that you know, she felt it was
• 16:33
  Speaker 4: the right thing to do. Well, Kathy claimed not only
• 16:37
  Speaker 4: did she act in good faith, but the court and
• 16:39
  Speaker 4: went out of its way to rule for Karen again
• 16:42
  Speaker 4: and allowed the no contest court to apply. Well, she
• 16:45
  Speaker 4: appealed and the appellate court affirmed, saying Kathy did not
• 16:51
  Speaker 4: meet her burden to show a good faith effort. What
• 16:55
  Speaker 4: is a good faith effort? Good faith standard requires challenger
• 17:01
  Speaker 4: to prove evidence that would lead a reasonable person to
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: conclude that there's a substantial likelihood that the challenge would
• 17:11
  Speaker 4: be successful. Evidence here did not show any of that,
• 17:16
  Speaker 4: So she loses. So it was on Kathy to right
• 17:21
  Speaker 4: to char that had to prove that, and so there
• 17:26
  Speaker 4: was no real evidence to the contrary of any of that.
• 17:29
  Speaker 4: After all, I had a note, he had a doctor's note.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, she probably didn't know the extent to which
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: Rex went to make sure because he knew what was
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  Speaker 2: going to come.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, so sure enough he was right, and sure enough
• 17:41
  Speaker 4: the claim came and they did approve this no contest
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  Speaker 4: clause because clearly they challenged it wanting more money.
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  Speaker 2: So Karen ended up getting everything because they were well.
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: Karen got the will that allowed her to get more.
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  Speaker 2: Right right, which is good?
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  Speaker 4: Yeahich good, well, folks, Again, this is about planning. I
• 18:02
  Speaker 4: want people to plan. It's always better than not planning.
• 18:06
  Speaker 4: But for folks who don't plan, and you find yourself
• 18:10
  Speaker 4: faced with going into a nursing home, call and get
• 18:13
  Speaker 4: this guide Long Term care Planning for procrastinators. And even
• 18:16
  Speaker 4: if you have planned, you might have assets that are
• 18:19
  Speaker 4: outside the trust. This guide tells you how to treat
• 18:22
  Speaker 4: them last minute, from houses to vacation homes, to rental
• 18:26
  Speaker 4: properties to iras in four to oh one ks life insurance.
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: Folks.
• 18:31
  Speaker 4: Assets are treated differently depending on what they are, and
• 18:35
  Speaker 4: they're treated differently if you're married or single. Please call
• 18:39
  Speaker 4: and learn how some of these assets can be protected
• 18:42
  Speaker 4: last minute. Don't write to check to the nursing home
• 18:45
  Speaker 4: eight six six eight four eight five six nine to
• 18:49
  Speaker 4: nine or Legal Exchange show dot com. Download the guide
• 18:53
  Speaker 4: right there again eight six six, eight four eight five
• 18:57
  Speaker 4: six nine nine or legal exchange show.
• 19:02
  Speaker 3: Well, what do we learned from this?
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: I want to help us understand no contest clauses a
• 19:07
  Speaker 4: little bit.
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: Better get your ducks in a row, for sure.
• 19:10
  Speaker 4: So they executed the documents. Following the procedures here to
• 19:14
  Speaker 4: ensure your wishes are honored was huge. There's an example
• 19:17
  Speaker 4: like whenever a client comes back to me or to
• 19:21
  Speaker 4: the firm and wants to update their documents. So we
• 19:24
  Speaker 4: might have done these documents years ago, and now they're saying, oh,
• 19:27
  Speaker 4: we want to leave a little more to one child
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: than another.
• 19:30
  Speaker 3: Fine.
• 19:31
  Speaker 4: We give them the power. We give them the ability
• 19:33
  Speaker 4: to do that, even with irrevocable trusts.
• 19:38
  Speaker 3: We give them this power.
• 19:40
  Speaker 4: But when they're making these changes and they want to
• 19:42
  Speaker 4: leave these assets, I always tell them it's a good
• 19:45
  Speaker 4: idea to go get a medical evaluation. Like what was
• 19:50
  Speaker 4: done here. It really ensures that there's no problem with capacity.
• 19:55
  Speaker 4: I always tell the client it's for your own good.
• 19:58
  Speaker 4: I'm not telling you this to be mean to you
• 20:01
  Speaker 4: to go spend money and see your doctor. I'm telling
• 20:04
  Speaker 4: you this because it's only going to be an arrow
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: in your quiver to ensure that when the time comes,
• 20:11
  Speaker 4: your wishes are going to be honored, even if someone
• 20:16
  Speaker 4: wants to, you know, challenge it, and you know your
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: kids and they might do it. So please make sure
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: you put this in there now, if you're going to
• 20:27
  Speaker 4: put the new contest clause and get this this in
• 20:30
  Speaker 4: there now.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: We put them in all the time. By the way,
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: now we.
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: Just tried to dance.
• 20:35
  Speaker 4: Yeah, there's just really no reason not to have it
• 20:38
  Speaker 4: in there, because even if the kids are fine to
• 20:41
  Speaker 4: your face, they might.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Not be when you die.
• 20:45
  Speaker 2: How many times have we seen that, Todd Everything changes
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: when you die in that bag of money hits the
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: table that I mean, the claws come out, the greedy
• 20:54
  Speaker 2: hands come out, and they just it's we've seen some ugly,
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: ugly family dynamics.
• 20:59
  Speaker 4: After it's just altogether a different world. So we're going
• 21:04
  Speaker 4: to do that now. That takes care of the lack
• 21:07
  Speaker 4: of capacity argument in this case and in any case.
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: Really it's really helpful.
• 21:12
  Speaker 4: The undue influenced part, you know, was a little concerning
• 21:15
  Speaker 4: to me because after all, you know, Karen did move in.
• 21:18
  Speaker 4: Karen then did have the will redone, I say, Karen,
• 21:21
  Speaker 4: but it was really the client. Sure, and she ended
• 21:24
  Speaker 4: up getting more than she was getting before, so it
• 21:27
  Speaker 4: kind of looks a little funny. Sure, but because he
• 21:30
  Speaker 4: had complete capacity made it harder to argue undue influence.
• 21:35
  Speaker 4: Because he was competent. He wasn't, you know, maybe a
• 21:39
  Speaker 4: little weak, you know, easily influenced.
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: No, none of that was.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: There, Todd. If you, I'm sorry to interrupted you. If
• 21:47
  Speaker 2: you had someone who came to you with this and
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: they wanted you to represent them fighting the trust of
• 21:54
  Speaker 2: their parents that had a new contest clause, would you
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: do it? I mean, you see that clause saying you're
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: going to get nothing.
• 22:00
  Speaker 4: But we do it all the time. We always defend,
• 22:04
  Speaker 4: you know, if we know, we're in a best position
• 22:06
  Speaker 4: to know how it was executed. So yes, we would.
• 22:09
  Speaker 4: We would defend the client.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: No, the client, I know, but the child if I mean,
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine what attorney would say. We would probably
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: oh yeah, child right.
• 22:18
  Speaker 4: Be defending the trust and defending the client's wishes. We
• 22:21
  Speaker 4: would not be the one bringing the noble right.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: I can't imagine an attorney would bring that because it
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: says right in there you lose.
• 22:27
  Speaker 3: I know, but it happens, so in this case, the
• 22:30
  Speaker 3: undue influence.
• 22:31
  Speaker 4: I was a little skeptical, but after the end of
• 22:34
  Speaker 4: the day, hey, she provided care, she probably earned it,
• 22:38
  Speaker 4: so I'm not I'm not worried about it. Right, But
• 22:41
  Speaker 4: just remember, folks, whenever you're treating people unequally, absolutely put
• 22:45
  Speaker 4: the no contest clause in right and always add this
• 22:50
  Speaker 4: due diligence of getting this you know, doctor note and
• 22:54
  Speaker 4: making sure they're cognitively sound and not easily you know, influenced.
• 23:00
  Speaker 3: So it's just going to help things down the road.
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: Get your dogs in place.
• 23:04
  Speaker 4: It was honored here, folks, and they upheld the no
• 23:07
  Speaker 4: contest clause, so use them. But finally, folks, people who
• 23:12
  Speaker 4: might not be might be faced with nursing home care,
• 23:16
  Speaker 4: learn last minute what you can do and don't just
• 23:19
  Speaker 4: write the check and spend all your money eight six
• 23:23
  Speaker 4: six eight four eight five six nine nine or legal
• 23:27
  Speaker 4: Exchange show dot com and you might learn how you
• 23:30
  Speaker 4: can save some assets last minute from the nursing home.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner with the
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers, a
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. Tob will be
• 23:43
  Speaker 2: answering your listener questions when we return to the Legal
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: From the other law attorneys at Cushing and Dolan. Here's
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: something you need to hear. Most people think long term
• 23:55
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• 23:58
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• 24:01
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• 24:04
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• 24:20
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• 24:22
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• 24:24
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• 24:35
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• 24:38
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• 24:41
  Speaker 1: in the music expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: Pushing and Dolin in or Armstrong advisorymay contact you're offering
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• 24:48
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• 25:37
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
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• 26:53
  Speaker 1: and it's time for Ask Todd, the segment where Todd
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: will answer your questions about anything and everything that's in
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: included in the estate planning process. Once again, Here's Todd,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Lutsky and Susan Powers.
• 27:07
  Speaker 2: Welcome back, Todd. We have a few questions from listeners
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: for you. First question comes from Janet and Pembroke Mass
• 27:13
  Speaker 2: and Janet writes, I am single and seventy eight years old.
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: I have a home worth five hundred thousand, in IRA
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: worth four hundred thousand, and other liquid assets of around
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: three hundred. I have good pension and social security income,
• 27:27
  Speaker 2: so I don't really need to access my investments and
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I tend to save my annual required distributions. I'm in
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: good health, but I want to save my assets for
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: my children. If I end up going in a nursing home.
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: How can I protect everything? Is there anything that can
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: be done to save the ira?
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: Wow?
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: At least she's you know, all inclusive here.
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: She wants everything she wants. Who wouldn't who wants to
• 27:51
  Speaker 2: sever it? Right? She wants her cake, she wants to
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: eat it too.
• 27:56
  Speaker 4: So we're going to give her as best of an
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: answer as we can. And so the way this plays
• 28:02
  Speaker 4: out is, you know, seventy eight never too old. First
• 28:05
  Speaker 4: of all, I'm glad that we're doing planning. Don't all
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: you folks that think, you know, oh my, I'm eighty,
• 28:10
  Speaker 4: I can't plan? Not true, Not true. So so that's
• 28:15
  Speaker 4: not a problem. Then we have to look at the
• 28:17
  Speaker 4: assets that we want to protect and the total dollar amount.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: It looks like she's a little over a.
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Million, one million, two million two.
• 28:26
  Speaker 4: So, you know, with a million two here in Massachusetts,
• 28:32
  Speaker 4: one thing we don't have to worry about we can
• 28:34
  Speaker 4: sort of outrule is.
• 28:36
  Speaker 3: The state taxes.
• 28:38
  Speaker 4: So she's under the two million dollar threshold for Massachusetts
• 28:42
  Speaker 4: death tax. So we don't need to worry about that.
• 28:46
  Speaker 4: And the second thing is avoiding probate. She didn't mentioned it,
• 28:50
  Speaker 4: but we certainly want to address that. Sure easily done
• 28:54
  Speaker 4: for all assets between the trust planning. I'm going to
• 28:58
  Speaker 4: recommend in a minute, and IRA money or any other
• 29:02
  Speaker 4: assets where we put a designated beneficiary on the account
• 29:06
  Speaker 4: to avoid the probate. So between DBS and trust work,
• 29:11
  Speaker 4: we'll be able to completely avoid the probate process perfect.
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: Leaving us her last question of protecting everything from the
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: nursing home, Well, you can't always do that. So as
• 29:24
  Speaker 4: a single person, we can take the five hundred thousand
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: dollars home put it in the trust. We can take
• 29:30
  Speaker 4: the four hundred thousand dollars three hundred thousand dollars of
• 29:35
  Speaker 4: her non IRA assets and put those into trust, most
• 29:40
  Speaker 4: of them, because it sounds like she's not living off
• 29:42
  Speaker 4: of them anyway, not at all, So we're going to
• 29:45
  Speaker 4: go ahead and put those in the trust.
• 29:46
  Speaker 3: So that's not bad.
• 29:48
  Speaker 4: You know, you got close to eight hundred thousand of
• 29:50
  Speaker 4: a million two taken care of, so that's not a
• 29:55
  Speaker 4: bad deal. Then, even though she's not needing them to
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: live off of. I'm going to tell her the four
• 30:03
  Speaker 4: hundred thousand dollars I already item, just leave outside the trust,
• 30:08
  Speaker 4: and you can't put it in because if you go
• 30:11
  Speaker 4: to put it in now, you're going to lose all
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: the government, You're going to lose income tax, You're gonna
• 30:15
  Speaker 4: have a big.
• 30:16
  Speaker 2: If she made one huge withdrawal, right, I mean, if
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: she took four hundred thousand dollars into income just to
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: put it into.
• 30:23
  Speaker 4: The trust, now she's going to lose you know, one
• 30:26
  Speaker 4: hundred and twenty thousand dollars in tax.
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: I just can't justify that.
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: So so I would say leave it outside the trust,
• 30:35
  Speaker 4: put a designated beneficiary on it to avoid probate. Maybe
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: that designated beneficiary can be the trust, because you want
• 30:45
  Speaker 4: to have these assets, you know, maybe protected for the
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: kids after you die. Depending on what your trust says
• 30:51
  Speaker 4: in terms of how you leave the assets to the kids,
• 30:54
  Speaker 4: put it in there. It'll still provide that benefit to
• 30:58
  Speaker 4: the kids going forward.
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: And at her age, Todd, would you recommend maybe taking
• 31:03
  Speaker 2: money out each year from the IRA if she wanted to,
• 31:06
  Speaker 2: and moving it into the trust.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: Well, I'm going to say probably.
• 31:10
  Speaker 2: Not, okay, because at.
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: Seventy eight, that's going to create five year waiting periods
• 31:16
  Speaker 4: every time you add to the trust, meaning you're you're
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: going to be that much further from ever getting eligible
• 31:23
  Speaker 4: for Medicaid. So I probably wouldn't be adding a whole
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: lot to the trust.
• 31:28
  Speaker 3: Maybe the first year.
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: I might take a bunch out and put it in
• 31:31
  Speaker 4: all at the same time that I'm putting everything else in.
• 31:34
  Speaker 3: I'm okay with that.
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, manage your tax brackets.
• 31:38
  Speaker 4: But what I would do is I would live on this. Hey,
• 31:41
  Speaker 4: I need a little extra money. Take it, spend it,
• 31:44
  Speaker 4: use it, enjoy it. It's only going to be income
• 31:47
  Speaker 4: tax that perhaps a higher rate to your kids when
• 31:49
  Speaker 4: you die anyway, and it's at risk for the nursing home.
• 31:52
  Speaker 4: So put everything else in, live off your era, and
• 31:56
  Speaker 4: I think you've got about ninety five percent of what
• 31:59
  Speaker 4: you wanted accomplished. Accomplished, good folks. That's the planning we
• 32:05
  Speaker 4: recommend for a lot of people, and for you. If
• 32:09
  Speaker 4: you find yourself in a nursing home after you've done
• 32:11
  Speaker 4: this planning, we can talk to you about protecting that
• 32:14
  Speaker 4: IRA last minute. And for all of you folks who
• 32:18
  Speaker 4: have faced with nursing home planning and may have done
• 32:21
  Speaker 4: no planning. We can tell you with this guide how
• 32:24
  Speaker 4: to protect assets last minute, from using annuities to protect
• 32:30
  Speaker 4: excess resources, understanding the look back period, how to get
• 32:33
  Speaker 4: around it, and basically how to treat certain assets. Homes,
• 32:37
  Speaker 4: rental properties, vacation properties. They have special treatment and it's
• 32:43
  Speaker 4: different whether you're married or single. Don't just write the check, folks,
• 32:47
  Speaker 4: call and get this guide eight six six eight four
• 32:50
  Speaker 4: eight five six nine to nine or legal exchange show
• 32:54
  Speaker 4: dot com. You can download it right there again eight
• 32:58
  Speaker 4: six six four eight five six ninety nine or Legal
• 33:03
  Speaker 4: Exchange show dot com.
• 33:05
  Speaker 3: Todd.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: Our last question comes from Bonnie in northeastern mass and
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Bonnie writes, my husband is seventy four and recently went
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: into the nursing home. We only have around sixty thousand
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: in the bank, but he has a good pension, so
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: that has been okay. His pension does not have a
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: survivor benefit for me, so he took out a whole
• 33:22
  Speaker 2: life insurance policy. My daughter in law told me that
• 33:25
  Speaker 2: the cash value of his life insurance will need to
• 33:28
  Speaker 2: be cashed out in order for him to qualify for Medicaid.
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: It isn't a lot, just a fifty thousand dollars cash value,
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: but the death benefit is six hundred thousand. I cannot
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: afford to pay the life insurance if the cash value
• 33:41
  Speaker 2: isn't there because the premiums come out of the cash value.
• 33:45
  Speaker 2: How can I save the life insurance policy? And what
• 33:48
  Speaker 2: little assets that we have?
• 33:52
  Speaker 3: Wow? These are not easy questions today.
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: You are on the spot.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: This is definitely heavy lifting.
• 33:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so.
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: I'm just going to try. I'm looking at this saying.
• 34:04
  Speaker 4: We're married and we have a healthy spouse, which is
• 34:07
  Speaker 4: a really key fact here, folks, everybody listening, married with
• 34:13
  Speaker 4: a healthy spouse.
• 34:14
  Speaker 2: Okay, she has sixty in the bank and then another
• 34:17
  Speaker 2: fifty thousand in cash value life insurance. I'm assuming a
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: home as well, but those are the assets.
• 34:23
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so let's add the home. So great news for
• 34:28
  Speaker 4: Bonnie Bonnie. The house is going to be protected from
• 34:33
  Speaker 4: the nursing home. Does not matter the value. If it's
• 34:36
  Speaker 4: located in Massachusetts and you're residing in it, it can
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: be transferred to your name alone, and the nursing home
• 34:45
  Speaker 4: cannot put a lien on it, and the state will
• 34:48
  Speaker 4: not count it. And it does not matter the value.
• 34:52
  Speaker 4: I don't care if it's two million or half a million.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: It's going to be protected home run for the house.
• 35:00
  Speaker 4: Now all your income. You still get to keep Social
• 35:04
  Speaker 4: Security pension. Hey, you need that, I get it. It's
• 35:07
  Speaker 4: your income. You're going to keep that healthy spouse, and
• 35:12
  Speaker 4: you're going to get to keep to sixty grand because
• 35:15
  Speaker 4: you get to keep up to about one hundred and
• 35:18
  Speaker 4: fifty four thousand dollars of money assets when you are
• 35:23
  Speaker 4: a spouse living at home. So great news there, And
• 35:30
  Speaker 4: since you only have sixty thousand to deal with, yep,
• 35:35
  Speaker 4: you can add the fifty thousand from the cash surrender
• 35:38
  Speaker 4: value of the life insurance policy and transfer that into
• 35:42
  Speaker 4: your community spousal Resource allowance. So that one hundred and
• 35:47
  Speaker 4: fifty thousand of money that I told you were allowed
• 35:49
  Speaker 4: to keep, it's one hundred and fifty thousand of any assets, so.
• 35:53
  Speaker 2: That life insurance policy will not be at risk transfer
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: to you.
• 35:57
  Speaker 4: Add that to your sixty thousand dollars in your community
• 36:00
  Speaker 4: spousal it's protected.
• 36:02
  Speaker 3: So he's eligible for medicaid right right away.
• 36:07
  Speaker 4: Okay, folks, you can learn how to be eligible for
• 36:10
  Speaker 4: medicaid right away as well. Even some of these tough facts,
• 36:15
  Speaker 4: these assets are treated differently. Houses, rentals, vacation homes, Understand
• 36:22
  Speaker 4: how they work. Understand how to use annuities to protect assets.
• 36:26
  Speaker 4: Last minute single versus married couples eight six six, eight four,
• 36:31
  Speaker 4: eight five six nine to nine or Legal Exchange Show
• 36:34
  Speaker 4: dot com download the guide there.
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: If you have a question you would like to ask Todd,
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: visit his website Legal Exchange Show dot com and click
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: on the ask Tod tab. Maybe I'll be able to
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: read your question on the air, and hopefully his answer
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  Speaker 2: will stop you from becoming one of his next real
• 36:51
  Speaker 2: life stories. You've been listening to Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing and Dolan. I'm Susan Powers,
• 36:58
  Speaker 2: a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group. We'll be
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: back with more after this quick break on the Legal
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  Speaker 2: Exchange with Todd Lutsky.
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  Speaker 1: From the other law attorneys at Cushing and Dolan. Here's
• 37:10
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• 37:56
  Speaker 1: Legal exchange Show dot com. The proceeding was paid for
• 37:59
  Speaker 1: in the music expressed solely those of Cushing and Dolan.
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: Pushing and Dolin in or Armstrong Advisory may contact you're
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  Speaker 5: This is Chuck Zada from the Armstrong Advisory Group, one
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• 39:46
  Speaker 5: eight hundred three nine three for zero zero one, or
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  Speaker 5: request the guide online from our website Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal, or tax advice. Consult
• 40:02
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong may contact you to offer investment
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  Speaker 7: This is Michael Valila, adjudant of the Disabled American Veterans
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• 40:39
  Speaker 1: Your tune to the Legal Exchange with Todd Lutsky. If
• 40:42
  Speaker 1: you are a loved one needs a nursing homestay, call
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: Todd right now at eight sixty six eight four eight
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  Speaker 1: five six ninet nine and let him make sure your
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• 40:52
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, or visit him online at Legal
• 40:55
  Speaker 1: Exchange show dot com.
• 40:58
  Speaker 2: Welcome back into the Lead Change with Todd Lutsky. I'm
• 41:02
  Speaker 2: Susan Powers, a financial advisor with the Armstrong Advisory Group,
• 41:05
  Speaker 2: and I'm joined, of course by Todd Lutsky, a partner
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: with the law firm of Cushing A. Dolan with a
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: master's in taxation. So, Todd, when you were talking about
• 41:15
  Speaker 2: your case. Earlier in the show about Kathy and Karen
• 41:18
  Speaker 2: and they're taking care of Dad, I thought it would
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: be a perfect time to have a conversation about personal
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: care contracts and just make people aware because there are
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: so many people that are caring for a family member
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: to try and keep them from going in the nursing home.
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: So let's start, because personal care contracts are part of
• 41:37
  Speaker 2: your guide and it's all about you know, if you
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: haven't done your planning and last minute things. So what
• 41:43
  Speaker 2: can you explain exactly? What is a personal care contract?
• 41:48
  Speaker 4: So a personal care contract is something that is needed
• 41:54
  Speaker 4: when you have let's say, in one of these cases,
• 41:57
  Speaker 4: we did, right, Karen, I think moved in to take
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: care of you know Dad, yep, right, Well, the parents
• 42:04
  Speaker 4: inevitably kind of want to pay for that care. They
• 42:09
  Speaker 4: feel bad that, you know, you moved in and you're
• 42:12
  Speaker 4: doing all this work.
• 42:13
  Speaker 2: I just stopped working to come and care for them.
• 42:16
  Speaker 2: Might have or reduced hours or things like that.
• 42:19
  Speaker 4: It's very possible, and so oftentimes the parent says, let
• 42:24
  Speaker 4: me just give you some money, and they do.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: But if you do that.
• 42:30
  Speaker 4: Then bad things are going to happen when you try
• 42:32
  Speaker 4: to apply for Medicaid, it'll look like a gift.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: So if you go into the nursing home right and
• 42:38
  Speaker 2: then apply.
• 42:39
  Speaker 4: So you need this contract, which is basically saying, hey,
• 42:43
  Speaker 4: I'm working for you, and I'm getting paid fair market
• 42:48
  Speaker 4: value for the services I'm rendering you for care. That's
• 42:53
  Speaker 4: that's basically the definition of a personal care contract. There's
• 42:57
  Speaker 4: more to it, but I think that at least answers
• 42:59
  Speaker 4: your initial question.
• 43:00
  Speaker 2: So who should actually consider using this toot Is it
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: anybody that you know, mom or dad want to slide
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: them a gift for something, or is it someone who's
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: really doing full time care is it part time care?
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Who should consider using these?
• 43:16
  Speaker 4: So I would say if you are seriously providing care,
• 43:21
  Speaker 4: I mean, if you're just going over there, you know,
• 43:23
  Speaker 4: once in a while and checking in on your mom
• 43:25
  Speaker 4: and dad and you know, maybe cutting the grass or something, yeap,
• 43:29
  Speaker 4: you know, you're probably not gonna not gonna get the
• 43:32
  Speaker 4: you know, personal care contract. But but if you find yourself,
• 43:36
  Speaker 4: you know, moving in or even if you don't move in,
• 43:39
  Speaker 4: I don't think moving in as a requirement or a
• 43:42
  Speaker 4: personal care contract. It does help to justify your hours
• 43:46
  Speaker 4: if you're living there. But but you know, if you
• 43:49
  Speaker 4: find yourself, you know, really caring for somebody hours and
• 43:53
  Speaker 4: hours at a time every week, and and your parents
• 43:59
  Speaker 4: say I want to give you money for doing this,
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: then then yes, you better say I need a personal
• 44:08
  Speaker 4: care contract because I heard that it's not good if
• 44:11
  Speaker 4: we're trying to protect money from the nursing home to
• 44:14
  Speaker 4: do it without a personal care contract.
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: So then yes, get one.
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: So can you only have one at a time? Todd
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: Like I'm thinking about you know, parents who might have
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: a couple of kids and everyone's pitching in to do things.
• 44:25
  Speaker 2: Maybe there's two or three kids who are spending some
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: serious time. They're kind of divving up the load. Can
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: you have several personal care contracts?
• 44:34
  Speaker 3: You can?
• 44:35
  Speaker 7: You can?
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: So let me give you an example.
• 44:38
  Speaker 4: You've got someone who's actually neither kid can move in,
• 44:43
  Speaker 4: but you know their work schedule permits one kid to
• 44:48
  Speaker 4: work you know, certain days because maybe they're a nurse
• 44:50
  Speaker 4: and they're off certain days or there, you know, whatever
• 44:53
  Speaker 4: their work schedule is, and the other kids able to work.
• 44:56
  Speaker 3: Other days and maybe the weekends.
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: Yep.
• 44:58
  Speaker 4: And so these two kids might get together and put
• 45:03
  Speaker 4: together this schedule. If they do, then they should have
• 45:08
  Speaker 4: this personal care contract two separately drafted with separate terms
• 45:13
  Speaker 4: and conditions, And just let me reiterate that the real
• 45:18
  Speaker 4: reason for doing this is to convert the asset being
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: given from mom and dad to the person from being
• 45:29
  Speaker 4: a disqualifying.
• 45:30
  Speaker 2: Transfer for Medicaid like a gift.
• 45:33
  Speaker 4: Like a gift, which means every time they give you
• 45:35
  Speaker 4: four or five thousand dollars a month that they're not
• 45:39
  Speaker 4: treating it as a gift and you're disqualified for Medicaid.
• 45:42
  Speaker 4: By having the contract and including the money you get
• 45:46
  Speaker 4: on your income tax return that you receive treating it
• 45:50
  Speaker 4: as taxable income, you're cleansing that and saying it's now
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: not a gift, it's actually payment for services, so the
• 45:58
  Speaker 4: money would be automatic protected from the nursing home. No
• 46:02
  Speaker 4: five year waiting period, folks. Five year waiting period is
• 46:05
  Speaker 4: also something.
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: In this guide. Understand how it works, how to get
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: around it.
• 46:10
  Speaker 4: Understand how to use annuities, especially annuities to protect a
• 46:14
  Speaker 4: bunch of excess resources money and learn from this guide
• 46:19
  Speaker 4: how to use pool trusts and or how to deal
• 46:22
  Speaker 4: with non liquid money like real estate, rental properties, vacation homes. Folks,
• 46:28
  Speaker 4: This guide tells you how to treat them last minute,
• 46:31
  Speaker 4: how to save them last minute, and how to do
• 46:34
  Speaker 4: it differently if you're married versus single, Call and get
• 46:39
  Speaker 4: the guide Last long term care Planning for Procrastinators eight
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  Speaker 4: or Legal Exchange Show dot com. Don't just write the
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  Speaker 4: check eight six six eight four eight five six nine
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  Speaker 4: to nine or Legal Exchange Show dot com.
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: Todd, I would think that if you have children in
• 47:02
  Speaker 2: between your kids, you're they're kind of providing twenty four
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: to seven care. I would think that you could move
• 47:08
  Speaker 2: an awful lot of money out of your name into
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: their name. There's got to be some kind of restriction.
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: You can't just go in and say, oh, I'm gonna
• 47:18
  Speaker 2: you know, I'm gonna pay my kids each tenngry in
• 47:20
  Speaker 2: a month to care for me. So what are your
• 47:23
  Speaker 2: what's your advice in terms of how do you determine
• 47:26
  Speaker 2: how much you're going to pay them?
• 47:28
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so one of the things that are in this contract,
• 47:31
  Speaker 4: right is not only the terms meaning what you're doing,
• 47:36
  Speaker 4: what type of services you're actually providing, define that in
• 47:40
  Speaker 4: the contract, define the hours, right, but also define you
• 47:47
  Speaker 4: know how much you're going to get paid.
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 47:51
  Speaker 4: So you need the hours, the term how long you're
• 47:54
  Speaker 4: going to provide the services for, and then the hourly rate.
• 47:57
  Speaker 2: What do you think a reasonable hourly rate would be?
• 48:00
  Speaker 4: You know there's some old cases that say, you know,
• 48:03
  Speaker 4: if you're not a qualified nurse.
• 48:06
  Speaker 2: Yeah right, you might not be.
• 48:07
  Speaker 4: You know, seventeen to twenty dollars an hour, maybe twenty
• 48:11
  Speaker 4: bucks an hour should get you there. That was a
• 48:13
  Speaker 4: while ago, so I'm bumping it up to twenty. You
• 48:16
  Speaker 4: should be okay in that range. I wouldn't go much
• 48:18
  Speaker 4: over twenty five, but twenty bucks an hour you could
• 48:22
  Speaker 4: move a lot of money.
• 48:23
  Speaker 2: So do you need to you know, punch a clock?
• 48:27
  Speaker 2: Do you need? How do you track your time? And
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: how do you actually approve? Because they're not there with you,
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: they don't they don't know what you've done. If you're
• 48:34
  Speaker 2: going to be a buying for medicaid.
• 48:36
  Speaker 3: I think you actually track it, just you know yourself
• 48:40
  Speaker 3: on your own count.
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: Get a log or something.
• 48:42
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and a log, keep a log, show you know
• 48:44
  Speaker 4: what you did that day. These are the things I did.
• 48:47
  Speaker 4: This is how long I was there. I mean, you
• 48:49
  Speaker 4: just have to be honest about it, and then you know,
• 48:52
  Speaker 4: you get you get your paycheck, And I would also
• 48:55
  Speaker 4: sometimes recommend like even a paycheck services that will issue
• 49:00
  Speaker 4: a ten ninety nine at the end of the year,
• 49:03
  Speaker 4: and so you've got support showing how much you received
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: throughout the course.
• 49:08
  Speaker 2: Of the year because you need to pay taxes on
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: that money.
• 49:11
  Speaker 3: You do, you do.
• 49:12
  Speaker 4: That's really one of the parts that really cleanse the
• 49:15
  Speaker 4: whole thing from being a disqualifying transfer.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Yep, perfect, perfect. So when we're talking about doing these
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: personal care contracts, do you need to do them with
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: anyone that's providing care? Like? I know you can. You
• 49:28
  Speaker 2: can hire services to do this, you know, different companies.
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: Do you need to do it for everyone?
• 49:34
  Speaker 4: I would say if you have an actual company, you
• 49:38
  Speaker 4: know that's that's providing the care. These these folks who
• 49:42
  Speaker 4: come into your house, they share the care providers. So
• 49:45
  Speaker 4: if it's them, you don't need a personal care contract.
• 49:49
  Speaker 4: They're going to have their own contract, right, They're going
• 49:51
  Speaker 4: to have their own documentation.
• 49:53
  Speaker 3: You don't.
• 49:54
  Speaker 4: You won't need one, right. You really only need this
• 49:58
  Speaker 4: when you're when it's a love one doing it.
• 50:01
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 50:01
  Speaker 4: Okay, let me let me explain why. Right, if it's
• 50:04
  Speaker 4: a loved one that's providing the care and you don't
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: have it, then then you want to make sure that
• 50:12
  Speaker 4: they don't treat it as love and affection.
• 50:14
  Speaker 2: Oh, got it, got it, got it okay.
• 50:16
  Speaker 4: So that's really the key, you know, behind it okay,
• 50:20
  Speaker 4: that converts it from love and affection to an actual payment. Folks,
• 50:25
  Speaker 4: call and get the guide long Term Care Planning for procrastinators.
• 50:29
  Speaker 4: So it's going to help you not just write the
• 50:31
  Speaker 4: check to the nursing home eight six six eight four
• 50:35
  Speaker 4: eight five six nine nine or Legal Exchange show dot
• 50:39
  Speaker 4: com to try to protect Usset's last minute from the
• 50:42
  Speaker 4: nursing home.
• 50:43
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from the law firm of Cushing and Dolan,
• 50:46
  Speaker 2: thank you so much.
• 50:47
  Speaker 3: Thank you, Susan. Always a pleasure.
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: I'm Susan Power as a financial advisor with the Armstrong
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: Advisory Group. We thank you for joining us and we'll
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: be back again next week on the Legal Exchange with
• 50:57
  Speaker 2: Todd Lutsky from.
• 51:00
  Speaker 1: The other law attorneys at Cushing and Dolan. Here's something
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: you need to hear. Most people think long term care
• 51:05
  Speaker 1: planning is something they'll get to someday, until suddenly someday
• 51:09
  Speaker 1: is today when a spouse or parent needs nursing home
• 51:11
  Speaker 1: care and no planning was done, the costs can be overwhelming.
• 51:15
  Speaker 1: Cushing and Dolan are elder law and estate planning attorneys
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: who help New England families protect their homes, savings and
• 51:20
  Speaker 1: retirement even when a health crisis comes out of nowhere.
• 51:23
  Speaker 1: They've just released a new guide called long Term Care
• 51:25
  Speaker 1: Planning for Procrastinators. It explains what options may still be
• 51:28
  Speaker 1: available and what steps you should take before writing that
• 51:31
  Speaker 1: first check to a nursing home. If you've been putting
• 51:33
  Speaker 1: this off, or a loved one needs care right now,
• 51:35
  Speaker 1: time matters. Call Cushing and Dolan today at eight six
• 51:38
  Speaker 1: six eight four eight five six ninet nine to get
• 51:40
  Speaker 1: your free guide. That's eight six six eight four eight
• 51:43
  Speaker 1: five six nine nine, or you can request it online
• 51:45
  Speaker 1: by visiting Legal Exchange Show dot com. That's Legal exchange
• 51:49
  Speaker 1: Show dot com. The proceeding was paid for in The
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: music expressed are solely those of Cushing and Dolan. Pushing
• 51:53
  Speaker 1: and Dolin in or Armstrong advisorymay contact you're offering legal
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: investment services. Cushing in Dolan in Armstrong Advisory do not
• 51:58
  Speaker 1: endorse each other and are not affiliated.
• 52:00
  Speaker 6: Social Security and Medicare are oftentimes lumped together, but may
• 52:03
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• 52:08
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• 52:42
  Speaker 6: three for zero zero one, or you can request it
• 52:44
  Speaker 6: online from our website Armstrong Advisory dot com.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: The proceeding was paid for by Armstrong Advisory Group, a
• 52:49
  Speaker 1: registered investment advisor. Nothing in the ad or in any
• 52:51
  Speaker 1: Armstrong guide a specific financial, legal or tax advice. Consult
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: your own financial, tax into state planning advisors before making
• 52:56
  Speaker 1: any investment decisions. Armstrong make contact you to offer investment
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  Speaker 1: Just pack your bags and go. Spend your day snorkeling, sailing, hiking,
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  Speaker 1: That's visit USVII dot com.